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Chan's Dilemma: When Wrong is Right and Right is Wrong
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James McGinn
Jan 19, 2017, 11:50:05 AM1/19/17
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On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 11:17:16 PM UTC-8, Chan Rasjid wrote:
(I have taken the liberty to rewrite some of Chan's words to increase readability.)
Chan:
I was rather amused how I could have rejected the simple fact that water
vapor in the atmosphere is gaseous - a gas in the atmosphere.
James:
It's amusing to me also--if not for the same reasons.
Chan:
I remember my error. The critical moment is the Wiki: "water vapor or
aqueous vapor, is the gaseous phase of water. Even now, I remember clearly
my immediate reaction: "Wrong! I think McGinn is right. It cannot be
gaseous". The only piece of information I relied on then was "water at 1
atmosphere pressure cannot be gaseous at ambient temperature"
James McGinn is still holding onto this statement and would not let go.
James:
Correct. I have not found the need to "let go." Moreover, I've maintained
the position publicly for about 5 years now. Although many pretenders claim
otherwise, nobody has been able to contradicts this (simple) claim.
Think about that! Five years? That's longer than Yuri has been labeling his
underwear with the days of the week!
Chan:
Don't laugh at the question: "How is it that water (vapor in the atmosphere)
at ambient temperature and atmospheric pressure could be in the gaseous
phase?"
James:
I'm not laughing. Chan, I think if you were to answer this question in an
empirical and definitive manner it might make you famous. (For obvious
reasons it would be pointless for me to do the experiment.)
Chan:
In one of the JM link's, this is the exact question asked in
sci.physics.research. It elicited various scholarly replies
James:
Excellent. I kicked ass in that thread! Yes. Everybody should read this
thread and see if they can formulate a substantive challenge to my position
(fat chance). Ultimately the moderator, as you will see, shut down the
conversation when I revealed that they just stated it as a 'truth' rather
than establishing it as a fact.
In other words, this thread substantiates my claim that the notion is not
well understood--it is just believed.
Chan:
It is so simple. You don't have to explain to the high school students why
water vapor in the atmosphere is in the gaseous state!
*** You simply TELL them water vapor in the atmosphere is water in the
gaseous phase. PERIOD ***
James:
LOL. Right. And we are all subjected to the same 'truths.' Everybody
believes the moisture in clear moist air is gaseous so everybody, the world
over, teaches it to their children, generation after generation, ad
infinitum--until I came along. Oops!
Now what is the world to do? James McGinn in on the scene--and he ain't
taken names. What is a tiny place like Singapore to do? [que music [Get
Smart]
Chan:
" . . . all students are told the same all the years - all believe
(currently, the only person left on earth still not believing is James
McGinn!)."
James:
Right. And my only qualification is that I can read a steam table. [more
music]
Chan:
What is a gas? We needed a Boltzmann to give us the kinetic theory before we
have a better understanding about the gaseous phase.
James:
Uh huh. In the future, Chan, there will be somebody just like you saying,
we needed McGinn to actually understand water. Think about that. And they
are going to be able to read and study every word we are stating here and
now. We are creating history! (The internet has a perfect memory. This may
not be an altogether good thing, BTW.)
Along those lines. Read this:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16587
Chan:
James McGinn does not accept molecules of water (vapor) darting about; that
it is this "particle" of gases colliding with the container that gives gas a
pressure against the container wall.
James:
So, Chan. Are you accusing me of not knowing what a gas is? Strange.
Chan:
Don't laugh at James McGinn; it was a genuine question asked in
sci.physics.research:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.physics.research/water$20vapor$20pressure$20ambient$20temperature%7Csort:relevance/sci.physics.research/QOxLdbhLwQ0/Yv0elXh0CgAJ
Question from sci.physics.research:
"We all know that water is a fluid unless the temperature is below freezing
(ice) or above boiling (steam). Yet according to the psychometric chart
there is water as a gas in the atmosphere at temperatures at which water is
supposed to be in liquid form. How come?"
Chan:
McGinn claims all scientists in the world read the steam table wrongly for
centuries!
*** Water at ambient temperature and normal atmospheric pressure cannot be in the gaseous phase ***
Therefore, according to McGinn there cannot be gaseous water in the
atmosphere.
James:
I wouldn't put it in those exact words but, to answer your question,
essentially, Yes. Anybody can read a steam table. Including yourself,
Chan. (Yuri? Well, IDK.)
Chan:
James McGinn looked for temperature of his "hot steam" at 1 atm and found
what he wanted - steam temperature is 100⁰ C.
James:
What I wanted? Strange. It is what the chart indicated. Facts are facts,
Dude. Deal with it.
Peer pressure is a bitch. Sorry I can't help you with that. Ultimately it
comes down to having intellectual courage. There are no easy answers.
Nobody can help you with that. You either fight the dragon or you shrink
away.
Cheers,
James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
-- I like the smell of killfiles in the morning. It smells like . . . victory.
(I have taken the liberty to rewrite some of Chan's words to increase readability.)
Chan:
I was rather amused how I could have rejected the simple fact that water
vapor in the atmosphere is gaseous - a gas in the atmosphere.
James:
It's amusing to me also--if not for the same reasons.
Chan:
I remember my error. The critical moment is the Wiki: "water vapor or
aqueous vapor, is the gaseous phase of water. Even now, I remember clearly
my immediate reaction: "Wrong! I think McGinn is right. It cannot be
gaseous". The only piece of information I relied on then was "water at 1
atmosphere pressure cannot be gaseous at ambient temperature"
James McGinn is still holding onto this statement and would not let go.
James:
Correct. I have not found the need to "let go." Moreover, I've maintained
the position publicly for about 5 years now. Although many pretenders claim
otherwise, nobody has been able to contradicts this (simple) claim.
Think about that! Five years? That's longer than Yuri has been labeling his
underwear with the days of the week!
Chan:
Don't laugh at the question: "How is it that water (vapor in the atmosphere)
at ambient temperature and atmospheric pressure could be in the gaseous
phase?"
James:
I'm not laughing. Chan, I think if you were to answer this question in an
empirical and definitive manner it might make you famous. (For obvious
reasons it would be pointless for me to do the experiment.)
Chan:
In one of the JM link's, this is the exact question asked in
sci.physics.research. It elicited various scholarly replies
James:
Excellent. I kicked ass in that thread! Yes. Everybody should read this
thread and see if they can formulate a substantive challenge to my position
(fat chance). Ultimately the moderator, as you will see, shut down the
conversation when I revealed that they just stated it as a 'truth' rather
than establishing it as a fact.
In other words, this thread substantiates my claim that the notion is not
well understood--it is just believed.
Chan:
It is so simple. You don't have to explain to the high school students why
water vapor in the atmosphere is in the gaseous state!
*** You simply TELL them water vapor in the atmosphere is water in the
gaseous phase. PERIOD ***
James:
LOL. Right. And we are all subjected to the same 'truths.' Everybody
believes the moisture in clear moist air is gaseous so everybody, the world
over, teaches it to their children, generation after generation, ad
infinitum--until I came along. Oops!
Now what is the world to do? James McGinn in on the scene--and he ain't
taken names. What is a tiny place like Singapore to do? [que music [Get
Smart]
Chan:
" . . . all students are told the same all the years - all believe
(currently, the only person left on earth still not believing is James
McGinn!)."
James:
Right. And my only qualification is that I can read a steam table. [more
music]
Chan:
What is a gas? We needed a Boltzmann to give us the kinetic theory before we
have a better understanding about the gaseous phase.
James:
Uh huh. In the future, Chan, there will be somebody just like you saying,
we needed McGinn to actually understand water. Think about that. And they
are going to be able to read and study every word we are stating here and
now. We are creating history! (The internet has a perfect memory. This may
not be an altogether good thing, BTW.)
Along those lines. Read this:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16587
Chan:
James McGinn does not accept molecules of water (vapor) darting about; that
it is this "particle" of gases colliding with the container that gives gas a
pressure against the container wall.
James:
So, Chan. Are you accusing me of not knowing what a gas is? Strange.
Chan:
Don't laugh at James McGinn; it was a genuine question asked in
sci.physics.research:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.physics.research/water$20vapor$20pressure$20ambient$20temperature%7Csort:relevance/sci.physics.research/QOxLdbhLwQ0/Yv0elXh0CgAJ
Question from sci.physics.research:
"We all know that water is a fluid unless the temperature is below freezing
(ice) or above boiling (steam). Yet according to the psychometric chart
there is water as a gas in the atmosphere at temperatures at which water is
supposed to be in liquid form. How come?"
Chan:
McGinn claims all scientists in the world read the steam table wrongly for
centuries!
*** Water at ambient temperature and normal atmospheric pressure cannot be in the gaseous phase ***
Therefore, according to McGinn there cannot be gaseous water in the
atmosphere.
James:
I wouldn't put it in those exact words but, to answer your question,
essentially, Yes. Anybody can read a steam table. Including yourself,
Chan. (Yuri? Well, IDK.)
Chan:
James McGinn looked for temperature of his "hot steam" at 1 atm and found
what he wanted - steam temperature is 100⁰ C.
James:
What I wanted? Strange. It is what the chart indicated. Facts are facts,
Dude. Deal with it.
Peer pressure is a bitch. Sorry I can't help you with that. Ultimately it
comes down to having intellectual courage. There are no easy answers.
Nobody can help you with that. You either fight the dragon or you shrink
away.
Cheers,
James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
-- I like the smell of killfiles in the morning. It smells like . . . victory.
Claudius Denk
Jan 20, 2017, 11:47:58 AM1/20/17
to
On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:50:05 AM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:
> James:
> I wouldn't put it in those exact words but, to answer your question,
> essentially, Yes. Anybody can read a steam table. Including yourself,
> Chan. (Yuri? Well, IDK.)
>
> Chan:
> James McGinn looked for temperature of his "hot steam" at 1 atm and found
> what he wanted - steam temperature is 100⁰ C.
As McGinn would say, "Uh . . . er, uh . . . ?"
> James:
> I wouldn't put it in those exact words but, to answer your question,
> essentially, Yes. Anybody can read a steam table. Including yourself,
> Chan. (Yuri? Well, IDK.)
>
> Chan:
> James McGinn looked for temperature of his "hot steam" at 1 atm and found
> what he wanted - steam temperature is 100⁰ C.
CD
Claudius Denk
Jan 21, 2017, 12:48:26 PM1/21/17
to
On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:50:05 AM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:
> Chan:
> James McGinn looked for temperature of his "hot steam" at 1 atm and found
> what he wanted - steam temperature is 100⁰ C.
And Chan looked to steam tables and imagined what he wanted.
> James McGinn looked for temperature of his "hot steam" at 1 atm and found
> what he wanted - steam temperature is 100⁰ C.
James McGinn
Jan 25, 2017, 10:08:48 AM1/25/17
to
James McGinn
Mar 4, 2017, 3:38:09 PM3/4/17
to
On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:50:05 AM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:
James McGinn
Jun 9, 2017, 2:05:19 PM6/9/17
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James McGinn
Jul 1, 2017, 12:24:53 PM7/1/17
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On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:50:05 AM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:
James McGinn
Mar 8, 2018, 12:32:23 PM3/8/18
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James McGinn
Mar 11, 2018, 2:00:52 PM3/11/18
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On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:50:05 AM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:
James McGinn
Apr 5, 2018, 1:40:09 AM4/5/18
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James McGinn
Jun 8, 2018, 10:56:31 AM6/8/18
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