Re: LIGO's Gravitational Waves: Consider being nearby, like 1/3 light year

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[1] [2]

[1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
[2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

> what would be the effects ?
>
> Huge gravatitional waves for years and years before the event

Not that much, actually.

The maximum strain amplitude of GW170817 was “on the order of 10⁻²²” and the
source was ca. 40 Mpc away. [1]

The strain amplitude is reciprocal to the distance, so it should be at most

40 Mpc × 10⁻²²∕(1/3 ly) ≈ 3.914 × 10⁻¹⁴

at a distance of 1/3 ly.

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=(40+Mpc+*+10%5E-22)%2F(1%2F3+ly)>

For an average human, if the waves would hit them “in the face”, that would
be only a difference in height of at most

3.914 × 10⁻¹⁴ × 1.8 m ≈ 7.04 × 10⁻¹⁴ m ≈ 70.4 fm.

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=(40+Mpc+*+10%5E-22)%2F(1%2F3+ly)+*+1.8+m>

The diameter of a human blood cell is about 100 µm:

<https://www.google.com/search?q=size+of+cells>

That is about 1.4 billion times (short scale) the maximum spacetime strain
caused by those gravitational waves at this distance. I doubt you would
even have felt the waves passing through you. Much less so before the
merger.

The gravity of the neutron stars and the radiation emitted in the merger are
a whole different story at this distance, of course; although I think that
the radiation would be more of a problem than the gravity as the
gravitational acceleration imparted at this distance would still be
negligibly small: Calculating Newtonian for simplicity, it would only be
3.656 × 10⁻¹¹ m∕s².

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=gravitational+acceleration&rawformassumption=%7B%22FS%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%7B%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22g%22%7D%7D&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,
+%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22M%22%7D+-%3E%222.74+solar+masses%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,
+%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22h%22%7D+-%3E%220%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,
+%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22r%22%7D+-%3E%221%2F3+ly%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22C%22,
+%22gravitational+acceleration%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22Formula%22%7D>

Even if you consider the first detection, GW150914, which had the largest
progenitor masses to date, two black holes of ca. 36 M⊙ and ca. 29 M⊙, the
peak strain was only 10⁻²¹ at ca. 410 Mpc distance [2] which corresponds to
4.012 × 10⁻¹² at 1∕3 ly and 7.22 nm peak strain for 1.8 m height. Again,
*tiny*.

You should have posted this in <news:sci.physics.relativity>.
X-Post & F’up2.


PointedEars
___________
[1]
<https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.119.161101#fulltext>
[2] <https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.061102>
--
A neutron walks into a bar and inquires how much a drink costs.
The bartender replies, "For you? No charge."

(from: WolframAlpha)

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

[X-Post & F’up2 <news:sci.physics.relativity>]

Serg io wrote in <news:sci.physics>:

> On 10/18/2017 11:37 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> There has to be a distance where one could be close enough to experience
>> the event (see, feel) but not so close as to be killed by it.
>>
>> What would one experience there?
>
> I guess a wrinkle in space time would come like a single wave,

_Spacetime_, and no.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave>

> and do something to you. stretch and get thin ? expand and compress ?

Objects get shortened and lengthened perpendicular to the propagation
direction of gravitational waves when the waves pass through them, and
most in the polarization direction:

.
/|
/ |
/ |
/ |
/ |
/ ^ _ |
/ : /| strain
| :/ |
source --)-)-)-)-)-)-)-|)-+-)-)-)-)-)-)--> propagation direction
||/: |
|' : /
| v /
| /
| /
| / __
|/ |PE
'

> if in a micro second, no problem, but if 1 second long, that could mess
> stuff up.

Yes, by *nanometers* *at most*, unless you get *really close* to such an
event (where it is not healthy to be anyway).

For example, for GW150914 with the two black holes of ca. 36 M⊙ and ca. 29
M⊙, you would have to get closer than 228'000 km in order to have something
done to you in height by GW on the diameter of a human blood cell (100 µm)
or more. [If you had come closer than 159.5 km – 1.5 Schwarzschild radii –,
where the strain would be on the order of centimeters or more, you would
have fallen into the larger one of the black holes, and if you stayed there,
you would have come closer than 274.6 km, you would have fallen into the
resulting black hole (62 M⊙) after the merger. Assuming they were/are not
spinning; they usually do.]


PointedEars
--
Q: Where are offenders sentenced for light crimes?
A: To a prism.

(from: WolframAlpha)

[Mauricio Hopwood]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> [X-Post & F’up2 <news:sci.physics.relativity>]
>
> Serg io wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
>
>> On 10/18/2017 11:37 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>>> There has to be a distance where one could be close enough to
>>> experience the event (see, feel) but not so close as to be killed by
>>> it.
>>>
>>> What would one experience there?
>>
>> I guess a wrinkle in space time would come like a single wave,
>
> _Spacetime_, and no.

Another error, which indicates a severe lack of education. Spacetime
itself is not capable to store energy, then release it attenuated due to
whatever friction. There is no Friction in spacetime. Serg's observation
is pretty much correct.

[Mauricio Hopwood]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>: ^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [1] [2]
>
> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

This is insane. You can't abuse the bare-metal by sending a few ascii
bytes and bits, switching. This is exactly what the Physical Layer of a
Network Protocol is designed for and supposed to do.

Amazing what one shall read around here.

[Serg io]

On 10/19/2017 10:57 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [1] [2]
>
> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.
>
>> what would be the effects ?
>>
>> Huge gravatitional waves for years and years before the event
>
> Not that much, actually.
>
> The maximum strain amplitude of GW170817 was “on the order of 10⁻²²” and the
> source was ca. 40 Mpc away. [1]
>
> The strain amplitude is reciprocal to the distance, so it should be at most
>
> 40 Mpc × 10⁻²²∕(1/3 ly) ≈ 3.914 × 10⁻¹⁴
>
> at a distance of 1/3 ly.

40 Mpc = 130,462,551 ly

(130,462,551)/(1/3) = 3.91 E+8

10^-22 * 3.91E+8 = 3.91E-14

checks, [I can see where it can get complicated due to the orentation
(spin axis) of the event, if your edge on, or pole on. but that
variation would be less than 10 or 100 ]

and then move it on up by another factor of 10 or 100 still at 3.91E-12,
really very very small...

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

The ’nym-shifting trolled as "Mauricio Hopwood" <r...@uwwwewir.ao>:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Serg io wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
>>> On 10/18/2017 11:37 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>>>> There has to be a distance where one could be close enough to
>>>> experience the event (see, feel) but not so close as to be killed by
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> What would one experience there?
>>> I guess a wrinkle in space time would come like a single wave,
>> _Spacetime_, and no.
>
> Another error, which indicates a severe lack of education.

Pot calling the kettle black again.

> Spacetime itself is not capable to store energy,

Yes, it is. That zero-point energy of spacetime, the energy has merely
because it exists, is called vacuum energy or, more recently, dark energy.

However, a different effect is responsible for gravitational waves. The
density of stress, energy and momentum in a region of spacetime corresponds
to its curvature there. If the density in that region changes in any way,
so does the curvature. The changes in curvature propagate as gravitational
waves at a speed that is equal to the speed of light within a small margin
of error, as a paper on GW170817 finds.

> then release it attenuated due to whatever friction.

It does not work this way.

> There is no Friction in spacetime.

There is.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations>

> Serg's observation is pretty much correct.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

*PLONK*


PointedEars
--
Q: What happens when electrons lose their energy?
A: They get Bohr'ed.

(from: WolframAlpha)

[Serg io]

On 10/19/2017 10:57 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [1] [2]
>
> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.

Polite but unsafe, unwise, and very insecure. the problem with real
name is one can google and find the persons real address, photos of the
front of his house, phone numbers, identify family members, photos they
have posted, birth date [Poor James McGinn] former addresses...

Additionally, from now on for years, when anyone does an internet search
on "James McGinn", they will run into his wacko posts. If he applies for
a job, first thing done is an internet search on their name, wackie
posts => no job .

Heads Up on Google. Google admits it sells your data to 3rd parties to
screen your emails, your searches, and your google drive contents. Also
when you "delete" something on Google, you are only obscuring your view
of that information, not deleting it, it is still there, intact and
searchable by google and 3rd parties. [Facebook does same through its api]

following link is a computer security show by Steve Gibson, he has been
on the internet for decades (over 600 shows there) very interesting !
https://twit.tv/shows/security-now

> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

disagree. It is considered proper network protocol to use
"inv...@invalid.com" and is specifically recommend by many newsgroup
host sites, primarly to avoid spam bots that harvest email addys from
newsgroups. And to provide some security.

it is not considered abuse by RFC 5536

relevant RFC 5536

"The "posting-account" <parameter> identifies the source from which
that news server received the article, in a notation that can be
interpreted by the news server administrator. This notation can
include any information the administrator deems pertinent. In order
to limit the exposure of personal data, it SHOULD be given in a form
that cannot be interpreted by other sites. However, to make it
useful for rate limiting and *abuse* detection, two messages posted
from the same source SHOULD have the same value of "posting-account",
and two messages from different sources SHOULD have differing values
of "posting-account". The exact definition of "source" is left to
the discretion of the news server administrator."

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Serg io wrote:

> On 10/19/2017 10:57 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
>> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> [1] [2]
>>
>> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
>> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

Are you going to observe the forms?

>>> what would be the effects ?
>>>
>>> Huge gravatitional waves for years and years before the event
>>
>> Not that much, actually.
>>
>> The maximum strain amplitude of GW170817 was “on the order of 10⁻²²” and
>> the source was ca. 40 Mpc away. [1]
>>
>> The strain amplitude is reciprocal to the distance, so it should be at
>> most
>>
>> 40 Mpc × 10⁻²²∕(1/3 ly) ≈ 3.914 × 10⁻¹⁴
>>
>> at a distance of 1/3 ly.
>
> 40 Mpc = 130,462,551 ly
>
> (130,462,551)/(1/3) = 3.91 E+8
>
> 10^-22 * 3.91E+8 = 3.91E-14
>
> checks,

Unit conversion had been done by Wolfram|Alpha for me, as you can see if you
use the URI in your full-quote.

> [I can see where it can get complicated due to the orentation
> (spin axis) of the event, if your edge on, or pole on. but that
> variation would be less than 10 or 100 ]

The event is the merger; it does _not_ spin (around an axis). The waves
are *transversal*, so lengths in the direction of motion are _not_ affected.
The waves do _not_ have an “axis”; they have a *polarization*: they can be
either plus-polarized or cross-polarized (I have depicted a plus-polarized
GW).

> and then move it on up by another factor of 10 or 100 still at 3.91E-12,
> really very very small...

Note that that is merely the *peak* *strain*: the *factor* by which you need
to *multiply* proper lengths to calculate the *maximum* *changes* in length.
(BTDT.)

Please trim your quotes.


PointedEars
--
Heisenberg is out for a drive when he's stopped by a traffic cop.
The officer asks him "Do you know how fast you were going?"
Heisenberg replies "No, but I know where I am."
(from: WolframAlpha)

[Mauricio Hopwood]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

>> Spacetime itself is not capable to store energy,
>
> Yes, it is. That zero-point energy of spacetime, the energy has merely
> because it exists, is called vacuum energy or, more recently, dark
> energy.

Has nothing to do with Gravity, mister Stoopid. And that's NOT a storage.
Somebody explain to this moron, just to make sure he got it, in case he
wouldn't really read.

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Serg io wrote:

> On 10/19/2017 10:57 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
>> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> [1] [2]
>>
>> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
>
> Polite but unsafe, unwise, and very insecure. the problem with real
> name is one can google and find the persons real address, photos of the
> front of his house, phone numbers, identify family members, photos they
> have posted, birth date [Poor James McGinn] former addresses...

Meditation and medication are available to counteract antisocial tendencies,
paranoia, and other mental disorders.

> Additionally, from now on for years, when anyone does an internet search
> on "James McGinn", they will run into his wacko posts. If he applies for
> a job, first thing done is an internet search on their name, wackie
> posts => no job .

If you do not want stupid things that you did to be found, then do not do
stupid things in the first place, like posting drunk half-naked photos of
yourself on Facebook, or pseudo-scientific word salad to a scientific
newsgroup. Alternatively, do not be a coward, and have the courage to stand
by your mistakes with your name. Nobody’s perfect; even overzealous
recruiters know that. Besides, would you want to work for people who judge
you from your mistakes instead of from your accomplishments? I would not.

>> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.
>
> disagree.

Irrelevant. You do not make the rules; you either obey them, or you face
sanctions.

> It is considered proper network protocol to use "inv...@invalid.com"

No, it is not.

> and is specifically recommend by many newsgroup host sites, primarly to
> avoid spam bots that harvest email addys from newsgroups. And to provide
> some security.

Clueless people helping to destroy the medium that some of them even claim
to preserve, by giving bad advice to even more clueless people and giving
them false security.

<http://www.interhack.net/pubs/munging-harmful/>

You have been warned.

> it is not considered abuse by RFC 5536

Wrong.

> relevant RFC 5536
>
> "The "posting-account" <parameter> identifies the source from which

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> that news server received the article, […]

Irrelevant evidence. What you quote is part of the section on the
“Injection-Date” header field, not any *address* header field:

<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.7>

These are the *relevant* sections of the RFC:

<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.1.2>
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2>

As for the real name, there is no RFC; common sense should suffice.

Apropos, trim your quotes:

<http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>


PointedEars
--
Q: What did the nuclear physicist post on the laboratory door
when he went camping?
A: 'Gone fission'.
(from: WolframAlpha)

[Dorothea Langlois]

Thomas 'Hartz4' Lahn wrote:

>> Spacetime itself is not capable to store energy,
>
> Yes, it is. That zero-point energy of spacetime, the energy has merely
> because it exists, is called vacuum energy or, more recently, dark
> energy.

Me too thinks it should be allowed to store gravity in vacuum. I would
already be applying for a patent, if I were you.

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> The ’nym-shifting trolled as "Mauricio Hopwood" <r...@uwwwewir.ao>:

>> Spacetime itself is not capable to store energy,
>
> Yes, it is. That zero-point energy of spacetime, the energy has merely

^ it

> because it exists, is called vacuum energy or, more recently, dark energy.

> […]

PointedEars
--
Q: How many theoretical physicists specializing in general relativity
does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Two: one to hold the bulb and one to rotate the universe.
(from: WolframAlpha)

[benj]

On 10/20/2017 12:20 PM, Serg io wrote:
> On 10/19/2017 10:57 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
>> ^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> [1]      [2]
>>
>> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
>
> Polite but unsafe, unwise, and very insecure.  the problem with real
> name is one can google and find the persons real address, photos of the
> front of his house, phone numbers, identify family members, photos they
> have posted, birth date [Poor James McGinn] former addresses...
>
> Additionally, from now on for years, when anyone does an internet search
> on "James McGinn", they will run into his wacko posts. If he applies for
> a job, first thing done is an internet search on their name, wackie
> posts => no job .

Hey I post with my real name! Shows I have hairs on my ass. Hey I"m in
the freaking phone book. Remember the phone book where people were
listed before they got all paranoid? And yes, Internet Trolls have taken
a virtual drive past my house. (I no longer have the car shown in
driveway). Whoopie. Come in and have a beer. The real nutjob here is ME!
Just be a kook and be PROUD of it!

> Heads Up on Google.  Google admits it sells your data to 3rd parties to
> screen your emails, your searches, and your google drive contents. Also
> when you "delete" something on Google, you are only obscuring your view
> of that information, not deleting it, it is still there, intact and
> searchable by google and 3rd parties. [Facebook does same through its api]

However, this does not mean that one should be unsafe on the INTERNET.
SPAM address seekers and virus planters abound. Computer security is
virtually nil thanks to lack of brains in digital people (Rolf a perfect
example) and Government encouragement of low security to aid their
illegal police-state activities. So while I am who I am, if you want to
reach me by email, you must do it though my SPAM filter address (as some
have discovered here...no it's not all that strange)

As for Boinker and the rest of the anonymous pussies, its the same as
why robbers wear masks. If you weren't up to no good, you wouldn't care
who knew who you are.

[Dorothea Langlois]

benj wrote:

> Hey I post with my real name! Shows I have hairs on my ass. Hey I"m in
> the freaking phone book. Remember the phone book where people were
> listed before they got all paranoid?

I can't see the relevance in making publicly having hair on you ass.