Re: Higgs boson "firm evidence"

[Y.Porat]

On Dec 13, 7:58 pm, PD <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/firm_evidence_higgs...
>
> ATLAS and CMS have produced a joint announcement of strong evidence for
> the Higgs boson at or about 126 GeV. The signal significance for ATLAS
> is 3.6 sigmas, which on its own would mean that the observed signal's
> chances for just being a statistical fluctuation is about 2 in 10,000.
> But this is not just a single experiment's results. CMS also sees a
> significant bump (just not as significant) at about the same mass is
> better news than it sounds. You can combine the results in quadrature
> and find that the significance is even greater, statistically; 4.3
> sigmas corresponds to one chance in 100,000 of being a false positive.
> But you also have to consider that the there are no fluctuations of this
> size at any other masses, so if it were in fact a statistical
> fluctuation, you'd have to ask what the odds are that the only bumps
> seen over such a large mass range inspected happen to be in the same place.
>
> But the news is even better. It's not even two experiments. It's at
> least six, because there were independent analyses looking for Higgs
> decays into at least three decay channels for each experiment, and they
> *all* support the signal in that mass range. And the branching ratios
> for each of those channels is in line with Standard Model expectations.
> So it's like six independent experiments, all getting the *right share*
> of signal.
>
> What must be frustrating to some is that 125 GeV is down in the ballpark
> where Fermilab stood a chance of discovery. That's academic now, since
> the Tevatron has been shut down for over two months.

--------------
imbecile crook!
as well as all those moron crooks in CERN !!

ENERGY IS MAS IN MOTION EVEN IN MACROCOSM!!

ando proved it more than once !!
so
energy has mass
and any amount of energy has mass
that can be transffered to be particles

YET A PARTICLE HAS **BY DEFINITION*
HAS ANUNEQUIVICAL AMONT OF ENERGY!!
IOW
THERE IS NO PARTICLE WITH TWO AMOUNTS OF MAS AND ENERGY !!
SO THE HIGGS IS A BIG MESS OF ENERGY
IT CANNOT BE CALLED THE gODS PARTICLE!
BECAUSE IT IS TOO MANY GOD S
PARTICLES !!
IN A WAY THAT ANY CROOK IDIOT CAN FIND IN IT WHATEVR HE LIKES
EVEN HIS MOTHER IN LAW AS WELL !!
so waht is going on ther now
is one of the greatest findings of the
21 th century ie

cooks and suckers can HAPPILY
LIVE TOGETHER !!
now
if it was just a children's game
it would not matter

but we have here a crime against mankind
because it is by arrival
a huge waist of billions of public taxes !
WHILE THE WORLD IS IN AN ECONOMIC CRISIS
while for honest people with minimal
physics understanding AND INTEGRITY know
IT SHOULD BE DEAD BY ARRIVAL !!

Y.Porat
---------------------------



Y.Porat
----------

[PD]

Then there are people like Porat, who say that experimental evidence
cannot be believed, if a "proof" based on inspection of units tells you
that such a thing cannot happen.

Such people, though, will never make good scientists.

[micro...@hotmail.com]

> Such people, though, will never make good scientists.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Where does the Higgs get its weight at the Big Bang?

[mpc755]

Then there are people like PD, who say that experimental evidence
cannot be believed.

Such people, though, will never make good scientists.

'NASA's Voyager Hits New Region at Solar System Edge'
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2011/dec/HQ_11-402_AGU_Voyager.html

"Voyager is showing that what is outside is pushing back. ... Like
cars piling up at a clogged freeway off-ramp, the increased intensity
of the magnetic field shows that inward pressure from interstellar
space is compacting it."

Aether physically occupies three dimensional space and is physically
displaced by matter. The aether displaced by the solar system is
pushing back and exerting pressure inward toward the solar system.

The pushing back and pressure exerted inward toward the solar system
is evidence of the aether.

The pushing back and pressure exerted inward toward matter by aether
displaced by matter is gravity.

In de Broglie wave mechanics the particle is in continuous energetic
contact with a hidden medium. This energetic contact with a hidden
medium is the state of displacement of the aether.

A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a
double slit experiment the particle has a well defined trajectory
which takes it through one slit while the associated aether wave
passes through both.

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections
with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ...
disregarding the causes which condition its state."

The state of the aether at every place determined by connections with
the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the
state of displacement of the aether.

[Y.Porat]

------------------
shameless pig!!
ddi i ever say that experimental evidence cannot be believed ???
cook !!
what isaid above is that
THE CUREENT HIGGS EXPERIMENT IS **SHIT
PHYSICS AND FRAUD !!!*

IT IS NOT ONE TO ONE UEQUIVOCAQL EVIDENCE !!
IE NOT AN EVICENCE THAT HAS
ONE MILLION POSSIBLE *FUSCKEN **EXPLANATIONS*
FOR IT
in other words
with such statistical probabilites they have there
youcan get any whanted 'result '!!
methaphorically
youcan find there even your motherin law
as well !!
got it idiot parrot
and a walking parrot and a real damage for
realadvance for real science
2
BTW PD
when are you going to thank me for teaching you that
E=hf
is not the real energy of real **single photon** !!!??

if you wil thank me
as a real honest **man** (Mentsch' ) should do
i willthank you inreturn !!!

Y.P
------------------------------------------------

if a "proof" based on inspection of units tells you
> that such a thing cannot happen.
>

[Y.Porat]

On Dec 14, 3:53 am, "Jonathan" <Callinst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "PD" <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:jc83o6$5ng$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>
> >http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/firm_evidence_higgs...
>
> > ATLAS and CMS have produced a joint announcement of strong evidence for
> > the Higgs boson at or about 126 GeV.
>

> They're only showing that if it does exist, then they've eliminated
> everywhere else except for that value. That's not the same thing
> as showing it exists.
>
> But what if they do prove it's existence? How will that help us
> understand our reality?
>
> What seems to be completely lost by particle physics is one
> simple property of the real world. Self organized systems
> are...robust to initial conditions.  So the higher the level
> of order, the less initial conditions are important.
>
> It's the relationship /between/ quantum and classical realms
> which matters. Not quantum or classical...components.
> The whole shows the properties of the parts, not the other
> way around.
>
> It's the most complex the universe has to offer that
> shows our fundamental laws, not the simplest.
>
>   "The aim of science is not things themselves, as the dogmatists
>    in their simplicity imagine, but the relations among things; outside
>     these relations there is no reality knowable."
>
>      Henri Poincaré, Science and Hypothesis, 1905http://www.calresco.org/setting.htm
>
> Jonathan
>
> "O Nature, and O soul of man! how far beyond all utterance
> are your linked analogies! not the smallest atom stirs or lives
> on matter, but has its cunning duplicate in mind."
>
> Captain Ahab
>
> Calresco Themes (*in essay form)http://calresco.org/themes.htm
>
> Self-Organizing Faqhttp://calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm
>
> Dynamics of Complex Systems
> (full online textbook)http://www.necsi.org/publications/dcs/
>
> Steinhardt
> Director, Princeton Center for Theoretical Physicshttp://wwwphy.princeton.edu/~steinh/cycliccosmology.html

>
>  The signal significance for ATLAS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > is 3.6 sigmas, which on its own would mean that the observed signal's
> > chances for just being a statistical fluctuation is about 2 in 10,000. But
> > this is not just a single experiment's results. CMS also sees a
> > significant bump (just not as significant) at about the same mass is
> > better news than it sounds. You can combine the results in quadrature and
> > find that the significance is even greater, statistically; 4.3 sigmas
> > corresponds to one chance in 100,000 of being a false positive. But you
> > also have to consider that the there are no fluctuations of this size at
> > any other masses, so if it were in fact a statistical fluctuation, you'd
> > have to ask what the odds are that the only bumps seen over such a large
> > mass range inspected happen to be in the same place.
>
> > But the news is even better. It's not even two experiments. It's at least
> > six, because there were independent analyses looking for Higgs decays into
> > at least three decay channels for each experiment, and they *all* support
> > the signal in that mass range. And the branching ratios for each of those
> > channels is in line with Standard Model expectations. So it's like six
> > independent experiments, all getting the *right share* of signal.
>
> > What must be frustrating to some is that 125 GeV is down in the ballpark
> > where Fermilab stood a chance of discovery. That's academic now, since the
> > Tevatron has been shut down for over two months.

-------------------
more over!!

they say that the God particle
(just notice the idiotic arrogance to call it God particle)
so thweir God particles
produces Protons !!

DID ANYONE SAW THERE
PRODUCED PROTONS ??? !!!
OR JSUT A MESS OF ENERGY???
while i prvedlong ago that
Energy is mass - the only mass)
in movement even in microcosm
as well as in macrocosm
so
any energy can supply mass to particles

but not any random amount of energy can supply the exact mass to an
exact particle !

iow
any particle has by definition and EXACT AMOUNT OF MASS init
and not even **two* amounts of mass
MOREOVER
JUST THE RIGTH AMOUNT OF MASS
IS NOT ENOUGH TO BE DALLED A PARTICLE!!
now listen carefully moron crooks :
FOR BIGGER PARTICLES

A PARTICLE IS NOT ONLY MASS
IT MUST HAVE AS WELL
AN UNEQUIVOCAL
3D GEOMETRY **STRUCTURE ''!!
again :
an equivocal 3D geometric structure !!
got it
and not a bit of it is in the current
Higgs spooky story !!
2
BTW
not least !!:

WHERE ARE THE FAMOUS 'QUARKS ''
(of the 'standard model '' (:-)
IN THAT HIGGS 'EXPERIMENT ??!!!

moron crooks ???!!
that experiment should be closed
IMMEDIATELY !!!

IF LEADED BY REAL HONEST
RESPONSIBLE HUMAN BEINGS !

Y.Porat
-------------





a porridge of undefined amount of mass
is NOT A PARTICLE!!

IT IS A BIG MESS * OF ENERGY NOT A PARTICLE!!

[PD]

On 12/14/2011 1:37 AM, Y.Porat wrote:

> -------------------
> more over!!
>
> they say that the God particle
> (just notice the idiotic arrogance to call it God particle)
> so thweir God particles
> produces Protons !!

There is only one physicists who calls it the God particle -- Leon
Lederman -- and he regrets it. The newspapers and magazine reporters
love it, though. Just don't translate what you see in the news as
arrogance on the part of physicists.

>
> DID ANYONE SAW THERE
> PRODUCED PROTONS ??? !!!
> OR JSUT A MESS OF ENERGY???

Yes, individual particles are tracked and identified. If you had done
ANY reasonable reading up on how these experiments are done, you would
have known this, rather than just the blind guessing that you do.

[papa...@gmail.com]

On 14 dic, 14:26, PD <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/14/2011 1:37 AM, Y.Porat wrote:
>
> > -------------------
> > more over!!
>
> > they say that the God particle
> >   (just notice the  idiotic arrogance  to call it  God particle)
> > so thweir God particles
> > produces  Protons !!
>
> There is only one physicists who calls it the God particle -- Leon
> Lederman -- and he regrets it. The newspapers and magazine reporters
> love it, though. Just don't translate what you see in the news as
> arrogance on the part of physicists.
>

Actually, Lederman originally called it the "goddamm" particle,
because nobody could find the thing. Afterwards the press cleaned the
"damm" part of the definition.

[papa...@gmail.com]

Typo: "goddamn" particle.

[Y.Porat]

-----------------
idiot moron croock and sucker !!

i can answer all your questions
and add a lot of questions that
not you nor any one will answer it
anyway
as long as you will thank me

for teaching you that
E=hf

is not the Energy of the real single photon
so if you dont thank me for that
i will not go on discussing with you
from a few reasons:

no more 'free meals; from me !
and

it is crucial for deeper understanding
and far going for the basic current
relevant issues and meaning of it

and !!
it is a matter of honesty test !
i dont intend to deal with dishonest people
because it is useless and a waist of my time and Energy

TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------
---------------------
so i suggestthat you will thank me
about the above

[PD]

Well, that, and he wrote a book with that unfortunate title.

[micro...@hotmail.com]

> ----------- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

The first particle?
Where does it get its mass?
Science sees something coming from nothing.
Its called the beginning of time.
We live in a two time universe. First from gravity next from motion.
Its because of GR and SR.

Mitch Raemsch; the prize

[Y.Porat]

On Dec 16, 2:55 am, "Jonathan" <Callinst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "PD" <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>

> news:jcb09a$47e$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>
> > On 12/13/2011 7:53 PM, Jonathan wrote:
> >> "PD"<thedraperfam...@gmail.com>  wrote in message

> >> But what if they do prove it's existence? How will that help us
> >> understand our reality?
>

> > It helps us to understand how quantum fields behave, and it helps us to
> > understand how the electromagnetic, strong, and weak interactions are all
> > reflections of the same interaction.
>
> I'm not really questioning the science, it's all interesting.
> I'm questioning the rationality of the search itself.
> Of the idea that the 'ultimate' reduction is a means of
> understanding the basics of our universe.
>
> Why did we chose the path of ..reducing to parts, for
> fundamental laws? Instead of ...expanding to the whole?
> Is the reason for that choice rational or correct? Neither!
> It was a decision based on human. instinct not reason.
> As explained so well below, circa 1870.
>
> "How Human Nature dotes
> On what it can't detect.
> The moment that a Plot is plumbed
> Prospective is extinct
>
> Prospective is the friend
> Reserved for us to know
> When Constancy is clarified
> Of Curiosity
>
> Of subjects that resist
> Redoubtablest is this
> Where go we
> Go we anywhere
> Creation after this?"
>
> We made the wrong choice, the most complex systems
> in the universe best shows it's fundamental laws.
> Not the simplest parts.
>
> Some of the great naturalists of the nineteenth
> century were very close to the big 'solution'
> to creation and reality. But the Industrial Age
> and all things objective science swept them away
> and their ideas. The new non-linear mathematics of
> Complexity Science, formerly known by names like
> chaos theory, artificial intelligence and self-organization
> are returning to those old ...holistic (system-based) ideas.
>
> From a complexity view, the notion of spending billions
> reducing to the ultimate particle, in order to 'figure it all out'
> looks like someone spending eleventy billion dollars
> trying to prove the Earth is flat.
>
> Reducing to parts to find fundamental law is exactly, completely
> and embarrassingly backwards science. As backwards
> as it can possible get.
>
> These super coliders define the absolute peak of
> the scientific Dark Age, the farthest point possible
> from the answers to life, the universe and
> everything.
>
> Jonathan
>
> s--------------------------------

i fully agree witht hat last paragraph
of yours :

----
These super coliders define the absolute peak of
the scientific Dark Age, the farthest point possible
from the answers to life, the universe and
everything.

Jonathan
-------------------
end of quote
now we should understand thoroughly
what is behind it::

it is along history of human behavior !!
not so naive and prImitive as it looks like

it is much more CROOKED AND EGOISTIC !!

I CAN SUM IT IN JUST ONE
OR TWO three WORDS --
AS UGLY AS IT CAN BE ::

**MONEY 'JOBS ' AND ROTTEN EGO !!!

(if it was only 'ego'
it could somehow be forgiven (:-)
because sometimes ego fighting is beneficial )
but not combined with the other two .
it must be ego WITH HONESTY !!
--intellectual integrity !!!.
and the ability to admit mistakes
that is so scares ...in our ''village'' ..!!)

ps
please note that PD is persistent in
erasing all ng s except sci.physics (:-)

he wants to make his crookedness
as less as possible **published *!!
for him
we have here a ''shameful crook (":-)

Higgs Bosons story does not belong
for him to sci.particle and not to sci.relativity !!......(:-)

ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------------
-------------------------

[micro...@hotmail.com]

> -------------------------- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

The neutron was the first particle.

Mitch Raemsch

[Y.Porat]

On Dec 16, 8:21 am, "microm2...@hotmail.com" <microm2...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

----------------
and God is divine !!!..... (:-)

you are a great scientist
a pain in the neck
go see your psychiatrist

Y.P
---------------------------

[micro...@hotmail.com]

> ---------------------------- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

If you need a psychiatrist?
You ought to have your head examined!

[Y.Porat]

On Dec 16, 11:06 pm, PD <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/15/2011 6:55 PM, Jonathan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "PD"<thedraperfam...@gmail.com>  wrote in message
> >news:jcb09a$47e$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >> On 12/13/2011 7:53 PM, Jonathan wrote:
> >>> "PD"<thedraperfam...@gmail.com>   wrote in message
>
> >>> But what if they do prove it's existence? How will that help us
> >>> understand our reality?
>
> >> It helps us to understand how quantum fields behave, and it helps us to
> >> understand how the electromagnetic, strong, and weak interactions are all
> >> reflections of the same interaction.
>
> > I'm not really questioning the science, it's all interesting.
> > I'm questioning the rationality of the search itself.
> > Of the idea that the 'ultimate' reduction is a means of
> > understanding the basics of our universe.
>
> > Why did we chose the path of ..reducing to parts, for
> > fundamental laws? Instead of ...expanding to the whole?
> > Is the reason for that choice rational or correct? Neither!
> > It was a decision based on human. instinct not reason.
> > As explained so well below, circa 1870.
>

> I don't know that it's really the case that reductionism is the sole
> mantra of science. There are lots of emergent phenomena that occur in
> nature and are also studied. Chaos theory is a superb example of this.
>
> You should also not confuse *fundamental* with *reduced*.
> Every single theory developed to date is what is called in science an
> "effective" theory, partly because it involves unexplained assumptions
> or constants that have to be measured rather than derived, and partly
> because it has a known limited domain of applicability. A theory is more
> fundamental if it provides some explanatory power about why the
> effective theory is what it is. That is, it provides some explanation
> for things that are assumed in the effective theory, it gives an
> accounting for some of the empirical constants (usually in terms of a
> smaller number of other constants), and it usually has a broader scope
> of application. This does not guarantee that the successor theory is
> simpler, involves fewer players or laws, or even that it refers to parts
> of composites -- though that sometimes does happen.
>
> While it is true that reductionism -- usually expressed as fewer laws
> operating between smaller parts -- has been a *trend* of success in the
> last century, it certainly isn't the sole outcome.

-----------------
a master LAWYER
for salad of words !!!

and in less elegant words
A CROOK !!
Y.Porat
----------------------------

Y.Porat
--------------

[PD]

It's a pity you didn't understand what I wrote. It may be the language
barrier. What's even more the pity is that if someone says something you
don't understand, you classify them as a crook.

Why is that, Porat?

[Y.Porat]

--------------becuse we are in physics science!!

abstract bubling is good for lawyers
not for physicists !!
if after all my explanations and proves
that eenrgy has mass - th eonly mass
si energy is mass i motion as well !
sowhy wonder that a lot of mass
quantities can produce particle
it need only the right creation conditions of any specific particles
2
since particles have a perfect unequivocal geometric strucutre
eben the proton is not jsut 3 quarks
from 3 quarks you canmake a sphere
AND
experimental data showes that
th e proton or netutrons are LONGISH SHAPES (STRUCTURE)
soit can be 3 quarks but 3of them is not and far from enough
because the mass of 3 quarks is
only 10 percent of P or N mass
and the rest of it cant be
90 percent idiotis gluons without mass
because even energy is mass in motion
so actually
90 perdent of the Protonis still
UNKNOWN !!

and the standard model is CHEATING and fucking
so it it should be a definite structure
it and not be created form a huge porridge of mass in motion that is
callled energy !! and in a hell of
chaos !!
it mast becreated step by step
from the smallest simplest
upwards
and it is not even the proton
it must be something much smaller than a proton
may be even smaller than an electrons !!
and go on being creating
bigger and bigger complicated particles
with a definit condition
IT CANT BE A PORRIDGE OF SUB APRTICLES
each sub particle has its exact adress
in with it is unequivocally located
and not running around like mad
and that
CANNOT BE DONE IN HUGE TEMPERATURES
the Temperature has to drop step by step** for each growing particle
**
andas i showed you
th ehiggs cannopt start with
protons !!
the whole Higgs story is nonsense physics !!
moronic physics about particles

and i could go on and on with it ..
11
sothe sooner toget rid of that
idiotic Higgs story
th e better
because other 'stories'' will come
and have the chance to be tested

3
a better understanding of particle
world
might save a lot oF
SHOOTING IN THE DARKNESS 'STORIES
money and precious time

(not to mention that :
our world is now in an Economy crisis !!)
and it needs btw
scientific advance to help us
with the **right technologies*
to help to ease that cry sis

Y.Porat
----------------------


Y.Porat
------------


particles ar ebuilt from thjr s
you stil stick to that nonsense physics
Higgs Bosons

[PD]

And it is your arrogant (not to mention astoundingly foolish) claim that
if you don't understand it, it must not be physics science?

What I said is physics science.

If you didn't understand it, consider the possibility that your arrogant
and foolish assumption is off the mark.

How much training in physics have you had? On what basis can you
reliably say what is physics science and what is not?

[Y.Porat]

----------------
little Dreck human being !!

now anyone can see why you are not a partner for physics discussion

i was bringing physics specific arguments
that i proved along years !!
and thepig ddint respond to it
BY not a single word of physics argument
because the pig has no physics argunets against me and my
unprecedented findings !!

BUT FUCKEN MISERABLE HAND WAVING !!
not all readers here are idiots !

any one can see it from the more and more
people who come against that
idiot pig !!and his CHEATING words salads !!
---------
and a Dreck crook like you think that no one of the readers
followed my innovations
may be you are a P hd
but that is no prove that you are not a donkey
scarring that you rally are books !
my education was along years og hard work
day and night
and skils that a derak like you vever had
like 3D parcice
and creativity !!
that anyone can see only a bit of it
in my abstract
that a farther crook llike you sole my book without my permission!

so you are not only a PiG PARROT
YOU ARE A SHAMELESS THIEF !!
as well !!

so
a little Josef Goebbels like you think
that
THE BIGGER THE LIES YOU WILL TELL
THE MORE CHANCE THAT THE SUCKERS WILL BUY IT !!!

PAUL DRAPER IS
IS A CRIMINAL AGAINST MANKIND !!

BYE LITTLE SUB HUMAN CREEP
AND A DIRTY HIRED SHAMELESS GANGSTER !!

don t you dare to respond to me anymore
nasty pig with a hide of a lamb !!

Y.Porat
--------------------

Y.Porat
----------