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The Campaign To Stop Killer Robots
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David P
Dec 23, 2019, 5:15:55 PM12/23/19
to
The Campaign To Stop Killer Robots
https://www.stopkillerrobots.org/
The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is a coalition of NGOs who seek to
pre-emptively ban lethal autonomous weapons.
First launched in April 2013, the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots has urged governments & the U.N. to issue policy to outlaw the development of lethal autonomous weapons systems, also known as LAWS. Several countries including Israel, Russia, S Korea, the U.S., & the U.K. oppose the call for a preemptive ban, & believe that existing int'l humanitarian law is sufficient enough regulation for this area.
In 2017, Campaign to Stop Killer Robots released a short film, Slaughterbots, "depicting a dystopian future where terrorists could unleash swarms of tiny drones capable of identifying and killing specific people."[6]
In Dec 2018, a global Ipsos poll quantified growing public opposition to fully autonomous weapons. It found that 61% of adults surveyed across 26 countries oppose the use of lethal autonomous weapons systems. Two-thirds of those opposed thought these weapons would “cross a moral line because machines should not be allowed to kill," and more than half said the weapons would be “unaccountable." A similar study across 23 countries was conducted in Jan 2017, which showed 56% of respondents were opposed to the use of these weapons.
In Nov 2018, the U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres called for a ban on killer robots, stating, "For me there is a message that is very clear – machines that have the power and the discretion to take human lives are politically unacceptable, are morally repugnant, and should be banned by international law."
In July 2018, over 200 tech companies & 3,000 individuals signed a public pledge to "not participate nor support the development, manufacture, trade, or use of lethal autonomous weapons." In July 2015, over 1,000 experts in artificial intelligence signed on to a letter warning of the threat of an arms race in military artificial intel & calling for a ban on autonomous weapons. The letter was presented in Buenos Aires at the 24th Int'l Joint Conference on Artificial Intel (IJCAI-15) & was co-signed by Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Steve Wozniak, Noam Chomsky, Skype co-founder Jaan Tallinn & Google DeepMind co-founder Demis Hassabis, among others.
In June 2018, Kate Conger, then a journalist for Gizmodo and now with the New York Times, revealed Google's involvement in Project Maven, a US Department of Defense-funded program that sought to autonomously process video footage shot by surveillance drones. Several Google employees resigned over the project, and 4,000 other employees sent a letter to Sundar Pichai, the company's chief executive, protesting Google's involvement in the project and demanding that Google not "build warfare technology." Facing internal pressure & public scrutiny, Google released a set of Ethical Principles for AI which included a pledge to not develop artificial intelligence for use in weapons & promised not to renew the Maven contract after it expires in 2019.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_to_Stop_Killer_Robots
https://www.stopkillerrobots.org/
The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is a coalition of NGOs who seek to
pre-emptively ban lethal autonomous weapons.
First launched in April 2013, the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots has urged governments & the U.N. to issue policy to outlaw the development of lethal autonomous weapons systems, also known as LAWS. Several countries including Israel, Russia, S Korea, the U.S., & the U.K. oppose the call for a preemptive ban, & believe that existing int'l humanitarian law is sufficient enough regulation for this area.
In 2017, Campaign to Stop Killer Robots released a short film, Slaughterbots, "depicting a dystopian future where terrorists could unleash swarms of tiny drones capable of identifying and killing specific people."[6]
In Dec 2018, a global Ipsos poll quantified growing public opposition to fully autonomous weapons. It found that 61% of adults surveyed across 26 countries oppose the use of lethal autonomous weapons systems. Two-thirds of those opposed thought these weapons would “cross a moral line because machines should not be allowed to kill," and more than half said the weapons would be “unaccountable." A similar study across 23 countries was conducted in Jan 2017, which showed 56% of respondents were opposed to the use of these weapons.
In Nov 2018, the U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres called for a ban on killer robots, stating, "For me there is a message that is very clear – machines that have the power and the discretion to take human lives are politically unacceptable, are morally repugnant, and should be banned by international law."
In July 2018, over 200 tech companies & 3,000 individuals signed a public pledge to "not participate nor support the development, manufacture, trade, or use of lethal autonomous weapons." In July 2015, over 1,000 experts in artificial intelligence signed on to a letter warning of the threat of an arms race in military artificial intel & calling for a ban on autonomous weapons. The letter was presented in Buenos Aires at the 24th Int'l Joint Conference on Artificial Intel (IJCAI-15) & was co-signed by Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Steve Wozniak, Noam Chomsky, Skype co-founder Jaan Tallinn & Google DeepMind co-founder Demis Hassabis, among others.
In June 2018, Kate Conger, then a journalist for Gizmodo and now with the New York Times, revealed Google's involvement in Project Maven, a US Department of Defense-funded program that sought to autonomously process video footage shot by surveillance drones. Several Google employees resigned over the project, and 4,000 other employees sent a letter to Sundar Pichai, the company's chief executive, protesting Google's involvement in the project and demanding that Google not "build warfare technology." Facing internal pressure & public scrutiny, Google released a set of Ethical Principles for AI which included a pledge to not develop artificial intelligence for use in weapons & promised not to renew the Maven contract after it expires in 2019.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_to_Stop_Killer_Robots
Byker
Dec 24, 2019, 3:29:31 PM12/24/19
to
"David P" wrote in message
news:bd2e2ee9-ea68-4133...@googlegroups.com...
1973 comes to mind: https://70sscifiart.tumblr.com/image/150604716956
news:bd2e2ee9-ea68-4133...@googlegroups.com...
>
> The Campaign To Stop Killer Robots
>
> https://www.stopkillerrobots.org/
>
> The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is a coalition of NGOs who seek to
> pre-emptively ban lethal autonomous weapons.
Every time I hear about "killer robots" this bit of comic clairvoyance from
> The Campaign To Stop Killer Robots
>
> https://www.stopkillerrobots.org/
>
> The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is a coalition of NGOs who seek to
> pre-emptively ban lethal autonomous weapons.
1973 comes to mind: https://70sscifiart.tumblr.com/image/150604716956
PhantomView
Dec 24, 2019, 9:34:08 PM12/24/19
to
never be created here again. There's always Manga though,
at least until the Japanese population base decays to zero.
In any event, there is NO stopping "killer robots". The tech
nations will all assume their foes are secretly developing
such things and thus put tremendous energy into making
such robots themselves. Those flying autonomous killer
drones as imagined in 'Terminator' seem the most likely
manifestation. The sensors and perfect math mean one
shot one kill. The things would be essentially unstoppable.
And then there would be tiny 'e-Insects' that fly or crawl
in - to spy, or with a deadly poisonous sting, or the ability
to set fires.
The battlefield 2073 may not include many, or any, humans.
Too hazardous.
Byker
Dec 24, 2019, 10:42:29 PM12/24/19
to
"PhantomView" wrote in message
news:nki50fhjghtg23fqs...@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 14:29:25 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>
>>"David P" wrote in message
>news:bd2e2ee9-ea68-4133...@googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> The Campaign To Stop Killer Robots
>>>
>>> https://www.stopkillerrobots.org/
>>>
>>> The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is a coalition of NGOs who seek to
>>> pre-emptively ban lethal autonomous weapons.
>>
>>Every time I hear about "killer robots" this bit of comic clairvoyance
>>from 1973 comes to mind: https://70sscifiart.tumblr.com/image/150604716956
>
> Ah, 70's sci-fi mags. So incredibly un-PC that they could
> never be created here again. There's always Manga though,
> at least until the Japanese population base decays to zero.
A year earlier, this was what the general attitude toward the war in Vietnam
had become. It was published at about the same time I got my draft number:
Back cover of an "underground" comic book:
https://georgepratt.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/5f1718cd-7a9d-4084-a321-1719f45bfd436.jpg
It was printed upside-down, so that right-side up, with the staples on the
left, it looked like the real thing. If you had a copy (I did), you'd leave
it out on a coffee table or classroom desk and watch the jaws drop.
https://img.etsystatic.com/il/d64409/1532217719/il_570xN.1532217719_9weg.jpg?version=0
Mine is packed away in a box somewhere up in the attic. It immediately
came to mind when I saw this Newsweek cover a third of a century later:
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/16/15/37/3725270/3/920x920.jpg
news:nki50fhjghtg23fqs...@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 14:29:25 -0600, "Byker" <byker@do~rag.net> wrote:
>>
>>"David P" wrote in message
>news:bd2e2ee9-ea68-4133...@googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> The Campaign To Stop Killer Robots
>>>
>>> https://www.stopkillerrobots.org/
>>>
>>> The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is a coalition of NGOs who seek to
>>> pre-emptively ban lethal autonomous weapons.
>>
>>Every time I hear about "killer robots" this bit of comic clairvoyance
>>from 1973 comes to mind: https://70sscifiart.tumblr.com/image/150604716956
>
> Ah, 70's sci-fi mags. So incredibly un-PC that they could
> never be created here again. There's always Manga though,
> at least until the Japanese population base decays to zero.
had become. It was published at about the same time I got my draft number:
Back cover of an "underground" comic book:
https://georgepratt.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/5f1718cd-7a9d-4084-a321-1719f45bfd436.jpg
It was printed upside-down, so that right-side up, with the staples on the
left, it looked like the real thing. If you had a copy (I did), you'd leave
it out on a coffee table or classroom desk and watch the jaws drop.
https://img.etsystatic.com/il/d64409/1532217719/il_570xN.1532217719_9weg.jpg?version=0
Mine is packed away in a box somewhere up in the attic. It immediately
came to mind when I saw this Newsweek cover a third of a century later:
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/16/15/37/3725270/3/920x920.jpg
PhantomView
Dec 25, 2019, 9:31:19 PM12/25/19
to
ex-soldiers, intact or shredded. Remember how they
treated the "bonus marchers". To a point this attitude
is perhaps necessary to the mission. The focus is
on a powerful fighting force and that is where you
concentrate your efforts and assets. "Ex", well, they
are out of the equation. However the attitude can be
very much over-done, to the point where it can have
impact on your present fighting force. Soldiers who
feel the military does not have their backs become
disloyal, rebellious, traitorous even. Not good.
Byker
Dec 26, 2019, 1:27:24 PM12/26/19
to
"PhantomView" wrote in message
news:dr680fhjghtg23fqs...@4ax.com...
The military has never been especially interested in
ex-soldiers, intact or shredded. Remember how they
treated the "bonus marchers". To a point this attitude
is perhaps necessary to the mission. The focus is
on a powerful fighting force and that is where you
concentrate your efforts and assets. "Ex", well, they
are out of the equation. However the attitude can be
very much over-done, to the point where it can have
impact on your present fighting force. Soldiers who
feel the military does not have their backs become
disloyal, rebellious, traitorous even. Not good.
That reminds me of a little something I saw in alt.military c.2006, at the
height of the "Stop-Loss" debacle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-loss_policy. You might remember a certain
movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv2-oQj1R-8
I thought it was worth archiving...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEGIN TEXT
It would be a better life if [name] were living on the street
or something. Let him find out the hard way about what the U.S.
Military is REALLY LIKE. He can learn the dirty little secrets
about the U.S. Armed Forces the same way I did.
Let's start off simple. A soldier dies fighting, he's taken home,
and an officer is assigned to help with the insurance, bury him, head
stone, pay. Then his widow and kids are kicked off post and left on
their own. No more medical or anything. They no longer care. He's dead.
A soldier is wounded and then kicked out. Yes, KICKED OUT. He is
no longer worth anything to the leaders. He has to go to VA and
that can take years before he gets help, and due to so many out there
it won't be much.
A soldier serves twenty years and retires, and because of military
service becomes disabled he applies to VA and years later when he gets
it he loses his retirement pay. A federal worker can get both but not
a GI. There is a bill pending right now that will help with this, but
the White House has said they will not sign it due to lack of funds
for retired or disabled service members.
When a leader has never seen the dead he will not even think about not
sending more to their death. Do you get it now?
Let me tell you a few things about these recruiters who drop in try to
sweet-talk these kids in raising their right hands. A recruiter gets
points to recruit you and will tell you anything. The smarter you are
(ASVAB scores) the more points, under Bill Clinton more points were
awarded if minority (black).
If you walk in there with a perfect ASVAB score ( which is a joke and
easy to get) they get good points to sucker your ass.
The recruiter might get 6 points for you, 2 points for the typical
idiot they recruit who can barely read or write. This means the
recruiter can sit on his ass the rest of the month instead of looking
for 3 - two point recruits. Less work = less 18 hour days. Once
he meets the quota the pressure is off him.
Now, he will kiss your ass and treat you with respect like you will
rise to the rank of General in 4 years. The truth is once you sign
those papers nobody gives a damn how smart you are, your degree,
your capabilities. You could end up cleaning latrines your whole term.
You are a number, and you will wear the same uniform as retards
that have basic functional skills. When you line up with them,
there is no difference and you will be treated as such.
You might be lucky and keep all your body parts intact and
leave service with a decent prospect and use it as a negative/positive
life experience. Most of us did not leave the service as lucky as this.
The military will destroy the person you really are and turn you
into what they want you to be, it might take years to undo this
"damage," if ever.
END TEXT
news:dr680fhjghtg23fqs...@4ax.com...
The military has never been especially interested in
ex-soldiers, intact or shredded. Remember how they
treated the "bonus marchers". To a point this attitude
is perhaps necessary to the mission. The focus is
on a powerful fighting force and that is where you
concentrate your efforts and assets. "Ex", well, they
are out of the equation. However the attitude can be
very much over-done, to the point where it can have
impact on your present fighting force. Soldiers who
feel the military does not have their backs become
disloyal, rebellious, traitorous even. Not good.
height of the "Stop-Loss" debacle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-loss_policy. You might remember a certain
movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv2-oQj1R-8
I thought it was worth archiving...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEGIN TEXT
It would be a better life if [name] were living on the street
or something. Let him find out the hard way about what the U.S.
Military is REALLY LIKE. He can learn the dirty little secrets
about the U.S. Armed Forces the same way I did.
Let's start off simple. A soldier dies fighting, he's taken home,
and an officer is assigned to help with the insurance, bury him, head
stone, pay. Then his widow and kids are kicked off post and left on
their own. No more medical or anything. They no longer care. He's dead.
A soldier is wounded and then kicked out. Yes, KICKED OUT. He is
no longer worth anything to the leaders. He has to go to VA and
that can take years before he gets help, and due to so many out there
it won't be much.
A soldier serves twenty years and retires, and because of military
service becomes disabled he applies to VA and years later when he gets
it he loses his retirement pay. A federal worker can get both but not
a GI. There is a bill pending right now that will help with this, but
the White House has said they will not sign it due to lack of funds
for retired or disabled service members.
When a leader has never seen the dead he will not even think about not
sending more to their death. Do you get it now?
Let me tell you a few things about these recruiters who drop in try to
sweet-talk these kids in raising their right hands. A recruiter gets
points to recruit you and will tell you anything. The smarter you are
(ASVAB scores) the more points, under Bill Clinton more points were
awarded if minority (black).
If you walk in there with a perfect ASVAB score ( which is a joke and
easy to get) they get good points to sucker your ass.
The recruiter might get 6 points for you, 2 points for the typical
idiot they recruit who can barely read or write. This means the
recruiter can sit on his ass the rest of the month instead of looking
for 3 - two point recruits. Less work = less 18 hour days. Once
he meets the quota the pressure is off him.
Now, he will kiss your ass and treat you with respect like you will
rise to the rank of General in 4 years. The truth is once you sign
those papers nobody gives a damn how smart you are, your degree,
your capabilities. You could end up cleaning latrines your whole term.
You are a number, and you will wear the same uniform as retards
that have basic functional skills. When you line up with them,
there is no difference and you will be treated as such.
You might be lucky and keep all your body parts intact and
leave service with a decent prospect and use it as a negative/positive
life experience. Most of us did not leave the service as lucky as this.
The military will destroy the person you really are and turn you
into what they want you to be, it might take years to undo this
"damage," if ever.
END TEXT
PhantomView
Dec 26, 2019, 9:41:06 PM12/26/19
to
worst-case scenerios, probably true, but where
are the the post-military success stories ? Plenty
of those too. The military is not supposed to be
the 'alternative welfare state', it is not going to
wipe your ass for the rest of your life. I have seen
it turn loser punks into focused organized people.
What they DO with that afterwards, well, it is up
to THEM.
Byker
Dec 27, 2019, 12:56:16 PM12/27/19
to
"PhantomView" wrote in message
news:opra0fhh59jd5jjcu...@4ax.com...
> The military is not supposed to be
> the 'alternative welfare state', it is not going to
> wipe your ass for the rest of your life.
Having seen my share of "lifer" E-5s, for a lot of them it's
three-hots-and-cot for 20 years.
> What they DO with that afterwards, well, it is up
> to THEM.
Like ex-Army Spec. Jeans Cruz, who dragged Saddam out of his hole:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/SaddamSpiderHole.jpg
only to wind up in a Brooklyn homeless shelter:
https://www.20min.ch/dyim/244d1b/B.M220,0/images/content/3/0/6/30679851/3/1.jpg
news:opra0fhh59jd5jjcu...@4ax.com...
>
> Something of a cynic I see. He takes note of some
> worst-case scenerios, probably true, but where
> are the the post-military success stories ? Plenty
> of those too.
It depends on what you define as "success".
> Something of a cynic I see. He takes note of some
> worst-case scenerios, probably true, but where
> are the the post-military success stories ? Plenty
> of those too.
> The military is not supposed to be
> the 'alternative welfare state', it is not going to
> wipe your ass for the rest of your life.
three-hots-and-cot for 20 years.
> What they DO with that afterwards, well, it is up
> to THEM.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/SaddamSpiderHole.jpg
only to wind up in a Brooklyn homeless shelter:
https://www.20min.ch/dyim/244d1b/B.M220,0/images/content/3/0/6/30679851/3/1.jpg
PhantomView
Dec 27, 2019, 9:19:17 PM12/27/19
to
Byker
Dec 28, 2019, 2:17:18 PM12/28/19
to
"PhantomView" wrote in message
news:gred0fpq17gou2f2o...@4ax.com...
the military NGs, original poster unknown:
----------------------------------------------
BEGIN TEXT
"Mike" <yared...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125243814.0...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 'Wonderful time to be a soldier' (Joe Roche)
>
> 'Wonderful time to be a soldier'
> By Joe Roche
> Published August 26, 2005
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20050825-090528-8396r.htm
>
> I'm very proud to be a soldier of the U.S. Army because of the war on
> terror and our missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not alone either.
> I'm surrounded by soldiers who are re-enlisting and volunteering to go
> to units that are deploying. In fact, despite all the negative news and
> protests, I see everyday that our military is actually doing very well.
Well, G.I. Joe, I'm glad you feel that way. After you've, say, lost an arm
and a leg and an eye to an IED, you'll be given your Purple Heart and
Honorable Discharge and 100% disability pension and you'll become just
another civilian again and within a year or two nobody, including most of
your family members, will give a flying fuck about your "sacrifice" while
you odiferously remind everyone of your incontinence as you vegetate in a
wheelchair while waiting for months on end for appointments with
"specialists" at your overwhelmed local VA hospital. Semper Fi!
END TEXT
BTW, that op-ed link is still good. As for Joe Roche, he's still alive and
surprisingly in one piece: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Roche
news:gred0fpq17gou2f2o...@4ax.com...
>
> Shit happens ... and not just to ex-Army.
At about the same time, this showed up in
> Shit happens ... and not just to ex-Army.
the military NGs, original poster unknown:
----------------------------------------------
BEGIN TEXT
"Mike" <yared...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125243814.0...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 'Wonderful time to be a soldier' (Joe Roche)
>
> 'Wonderful time to be a soldier'
> By Joe Roche
> Published August 26, 2005
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20050825-090528-8396r.htm
>
> I'm very proud to be a soldier of the U.S. Army because of the war on
> terror and our missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not alone either.
> I'm surrounded by soldiers who are re-enlisting and volunteering to go
> to units that are deploying. In fact, despite all the negative news and
> protests, I see everyday that our military is actually doing very well.
Well, G.I. Joe, I'm glad you feel that way. After you've, say, lost an arm
and a leg and an eye to an IED, you'll be given your Purple Heart and
Honorable Discharge and 100% disability pension and you'll become just
another civilian again and within a year or two nobody, including most of
your family members, will give a flying fuck about your "sacrifice" while
you odiferously remind everyone of your incontinence as you vegetate in a
wheelchair while waiting for months on end for appointments with
"specialists" at your overwhelmed local VA hospital. Semper Fi!
END TEXT
BTW, that op-ed link is still good. As for Joe Roche, he's still alive and
surprisingly in one piece: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Roche
David Hartung
Dec 28, 2019, 2:20:50 PM12/28/19
to
Byker
Dec 28, 2019, 2:25:40 PM12/28/19
to
"David Hartung" wrote in message news:lWNNF.84451$4G2....@fx46.iad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc9g2tagYms
>
> No one "serves" in the military. It's just a job.
Recruiters might beg to differ <sarcasm>:
> No one "serves" in the military. It's just a job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc9g2tagYms
David Hartung
Dec 28, 2019, 2:28:56 PM12/28/19
to
On 12/28/2019 11:25 AM, Byker wrote:
> "David Hartung" wrote in message news:lWNNF.84451$4G2....@fx46.iad...
>>
>> No one "serves" in the military. It's just a job.
>
> Recruiters might beg to differ
It's just a job. No one is "serving a higher cause," any more than
> "David Hartung" wrote in message news:lWNNF.84451$4G2....@fx46.iad...
>>
>> No one "serves" in the military. It's just a job.
>
> Recruiters might beg to differ
stocking grocery store shelves.
Peter Skelton
Dec 28, 2019, 5:53:08 PM12/28/19
to
PhantomView
Dec 28, 2019, 9:36:07 PM12/28/19
to
industrial accident or rushing into the WTC after
the plane crash ... and though you will get disability
soon very few will give a shit about you either and
your company will likely find a way to cut off your
pension too.
You talk as if it is different for soldiers, but it isn't.
Shit can happen and the results are similar. Maybe
some military recruiter made promises, but so do
civvie employers. Oh, they *love* their employees,
so long as they are putting cash in the corporate
wallet ......
Soldiering takes more balls than working on an oil
rig or building big office buildings but all are hazardous
jobs and once you cannot do it anymore you will feel
like you have been screwed and tossed in a dumpster.
Rudy Canoza
Dec 28, 2019, 9:44:10 PM12/28/19
to
On 12/28/2019 6:36 PM, PhantomView wrote:
> You talk as if it is different for soldiers, but it isn't.
> Shit can happen and the results are similar. Maybe
> some military recruiter made promises, but so do
> civvie employers. Oh, they*love* their employees,
> You talk as if it is different for soldiers, but it isn't.
> Shit can happen and the results are similar. Maybe
> some military recruiter made promises, but so do
> so long as they are putting cash in the corporate
> wallet ......
Making money for the company is the *ONLY* reason employees are hired in
> wallet ......
the first place. Firms do not hire employees out of beneficence or public
spiritedness; nor should they.
Byker
Dec 28, 2019, 10:45:05 PM12/28/19
to
"Simplify Please" wrote in message
news:c09e192c-1d75-4778...@googlegroups.com...
>
> Serving one's country is a higher calling or so they want the public to
> believe. From the propaganda of WW2 and other wars, to this day, the war
> in Afghanistan etc., it's BS. People getting ripped apart and burned
> alive, dead or otherwise. It's a sick sick business. I can understand
> defending a country from invasion by a foreign power. But these perpetual
> wars are not even close to defending one's country from invasion. But
> then on the other hand, I'd rather have the US as a world power than China
> or Russia. The world is a f#$c*Ed up place.
As the late Joe Bageant put it in 2006:
"Most disturbingly, the Iraq War, despite all the noise, is at this writing
in a distant thing that occasionally spits a coffin in our direction
containing some local working-class son or daughter. The flag-draped box is
shown on the front page of the local paper, everyone salutes and remarks on
how sad it is, but really nobody but the soldier’s family and church gives a
hoot. They really don’t. You can see it in their eyes. The new Washington
Nationals baseball franchise over in D.C. gets far, far more discussion than
the war, dead locals or no dead locals. It is one of the hologram’s biggest
media myths that small towns are thrown into deep mourning when one of their
young is killed in Iraq. There was a time when that would have been true,
but long ago our lives were numbed by the money grind and by the
birth-to-death drenching in marketing and messages and sports spectacle, by
the complete absence of genuine public questioning of the notion that
America is the best nation on earth, superior in all things and therefore
unassailable."
"Lynndie England never had a chance. Abu Ghraib, or maybe something even
worse (an RPG up the shorts, for instance) was always her destiny. Nearly
half of the Americans killed in Iraq to date came from small towns like
hers, like mine. Forty-six percent of the American dead in Iraq came from
towns of less than 40,000. Yet these towns make up only 25% of our
population. Most of the young soldiers were fleeing economically depressed
places, or dead end jobs like Lynndie had at the chicken processing plant.
These so-called volunteers are part of this nation’s de facto draft—economic
conscription. Money is always the best whip to use on the laboring classes.
Thirteen hundred a month, a signing bonus and free room and board sure beats
the hell out of yanking guts through a chicken’s ass."
https://www.joebageant.org/
news:c09e192c-1d75-4778...@googlegroups.com...
>
> Serving one's country is a higher calling or so they want the public to
> believe. From the propaganda of WW2 and other wars, to this day, the war
> in Afghanistan etc., it's BS. People getting ripped apart and burned
> alive, dead or otherwise. It's a sick sick business. I can understand
> defending a country from invasion by a foreign power. But these perpetual
> wars are not even close to defending one's country from invasion. But
> then on the other hand, I'd rather have the US as a world power than China
> or Russia. The world is a f#$c*Ed up place.
As the late Joe Bageant put it in 2006:
"Most disturbingly, the Iraq War, despite all the noise, is at this writing
in a distant thing that occasionally spits a coffin in our direction
containing some local working-class son or daughter. The flag-draped box is
shown on the front page of the local paper, everyone salutes and remarks on
how sad it is, but really nobody but the soldier’s family and church gives a
hoot. They really don’t. You can see it in their eyes. The new Washington
Nationals baseball franchise over in D.C. gets far, far more discussion than
the war, dead locals or no dead locals. It is one of the hologram’s biggest
media myths that small towns are thrown into deep mourning when one of their
young is killed in Iraq. There was a time when that would have been true,
but long ago our lives were numbed by the money grind and by the
birth-to-death drenching in marketing and messages and sports spectacle, by
the complete absence of genuine public questioning of the notion that
America is the best nation on earth, superior in all things and therefore
unassailable."
"Lynndie England never had a chance. Abu Ghraib, or maybe something even
worse (an RPG up the shorts, for instance) was always her destiny. Nearly
half of the Americans killed in Iraq to date came from small towns like
hers, like mine. Forty-six percent of the American dead in Iraq came from
towns of less than 40,000. Yet these towns make up only 25% of our
population. Most of the young soldiers were fleeing economically depressed
places, or dead end jobs like Lynndie had at the chicken processing plant.
These so-called volunteers are part of this nation’s de facto draft—economic
conscription. Money is always the best whip to use on the laboring classes.
Thirteen hundred a month, a signing bonus and free room and board sure beats
the hell out of yanking guts through a chicken’s ass."
https://www.joebageant.org/
Byker
Dec 28, 2019, 10:52:21 PM12/28/19
to
"Peter Skelton" wrote in message
news:d7ac672f-d7bd-4c1d...@googlegroups.com...
Q: What is work?
A: Self-abuse in exchange for money
Q: What is a job?
A: It's when you put up with 40 hours of bullshit a week to keep from
starving
Q: What is a career?
A: It's when you put up with said bullshit for 40 years
True, there are people who genuinely LIKE their jobs. There are also
people who become sexually aroused by the taste of human shit...
news:d7ac672f-d7bd-4c1d...@googlegroups.com...
>
> That is nonsense. Many people follow many professions wholly or partly
> because they believe the work is worth doing. Sometimes they do it without
> pay. I'm absolutely certain that some military people I know believe in
> the service. (I know some who feel betrayed too.) There are other
> motivations, a job, training, tradition, belonging, comradeship getting
> out of a bad situation, and so on, but pretending that belief in the value
> of service is an important part of the picture.
Looking back on my working life:
> That is nonsense. Many people follow many professions wholly or partly
> because they believe the work is worth doing. Sometimes they do it without
> pay. I'm absolutely certain that some military people I know believe in
> the service. (I know some who feel betrayed too.) There are other
> motivations, a job, training, tradition, belonging, comradeship getting
> out of a bad situation, and so on, but pretending that belief in the value
> of service is an important part of the picture.
Q: What is work?
A: Self-abuse in exchange for money
Q: What is a job?
A: It's when you put up with 40 hours of bullshit a week to keep from
starving
Q: What is a career?
A: It's when you put up with said bullshit for 40 years
True, there are people who genuinely LIKE their jobs. There are also
people who become sexually aroused by the taste of human shit...
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