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Elon Musk leads 116 experts calling for outright ban of killer robots
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a425couple
Aug 21, 2017, 1:52:18 PM8/21/17
to
Elon Musk leads 116 experts calling for outright ban of killer robots
Open letter signed by Tesla chief and Alphabet’s Mustafa Suleyman urges
UN to block use of lethal autonomous weapons to prevent third age of war
A killer robot from the 2014 remake of Robocop.
The open letter read: ‘lethal autonomous weapons will permit armed
conflict to be fought at a scale greater than ever, and at timescales
faster than humans can comprehend.’
Samuel Gibbs
Sunday 20 August 2017 10.01 EDT Last modified on Monday 21 August 2017
06.24 EDT
Some of the world’s leading robotics and artificial intelligence
pioneers are calling on the United Nations to ban the development and
use of killer robots.
Tesla’s Elon Musk and Alphabet’s Mustafa Suleyman are leading a group of
116 specialists from across 26 countries who are calling for the ban on
autonomous weapons.
The UN recently voted to begin formal discussions on such weapons which
include drones, tanks and automated machine guns. Ahead of this, the
group of founders of AI and robotics companies have sent an open letter
to the UN calling for it to prevent the arms race that is currently
under way for killer robots.
In their letter, the founders warn the review conference of the
convention on conventional weapons that this arms race threatens to
usher in the “third revolution in warfare” after gunpowder and nuclear arms.
The founders wrote: “Once developed, lethal autonomous weapons will
permit armed conflict to be fought at a scale greater than ever, and at
timescales faster than humans can comprehend. These can be weapons of
terror, weapons that despots and terrorists use against innocent
populations, and weapons hacked to behave in undesirable ways.
“We do not have long to act. Once this Pandora’s box is opened, it will
be hard to close.”
Play VideoPlay
Current Time 0:00
Duration Time 2:21
In My Opinion: we should be more afraid of computers than we are
Experts have previously warned that AI technology has reached a point
where the deployment of autonomous weapons is feasible within years,
rather than decades. While AI can be used to make the battlefield a
safer place for military personnel, experts fear that offensive weapons
that operate on their own would lower the threshold of going to battle
and result in greater loss of human life.
The letter, launching at the opening of the International Joint
Conference on Artificial Intelligence (IJCAI) in Melbourne on Monday,
has the backing of high-profile figures in the robotics field and
strongly stresses the need for urgent action, after the UN was forced to
delay a meeting that was due to start Monday to review the issue.
The founders call for “morally wrong” lethal autonomous weapons systems
to be added to the list of weapons banned under the UN’s convention on
certain conventional weapons (CCW) brought into force in 1983, which
includes chemical and intentionally blinding laser weapons.
Toby Walsh, Scientia professor of artificial intelligence at the
University of New South Wales in Sydney, said: “Nearly every technology
can be used for good and bad, and artificial intelligence is no
different. It can help tackle many of the pressing problems facing
society today: inequality and poverty, the challenges posed by climate
change and the ongoing global financial crisis.
“However, the same technology can also be used in autonomous weapons to
industrialise war. We need to make decisions today choosing which of
these futures we want.”
Musk, one of the signatories of the open letter, has repeatedly warned
for the need for pro-active regulation of AI, calling it humanity’s
biggest existential threat, but while AI’s destructive potential is
considered by some to be vast it is also thought be distant.
Ryan Gariepy, the founder of Clearpath Robotics said: “Unlike other
potential manifestations of AI which still remain in the realm of
science fiction, autonomous weapons systems are on the cusp of
development right now and have a very real potential to cause
significant harm to innocent people along with global instability.”
This is not the first time the IJCAI, one of the world’s leading AI
conferences, has been used as a platform to discuss lethal autonomous
weapons systems. Two years ago the conference was used to launch an open
letter signed by thousands of AI and robotics researchers including Musk
and Stephen Hawking similarly calling for a ban, which helped push the
UN into formal talks on the technologies.
The UK government opposed such a ban on lethal autonomous weapons in
2015, with the Foreign Office stating that “international humanitarian
law already provides sufficient regulation for this area”. It said that
the UK was not developing lethal autonomous weapons and that all weapons
employed by UK armed forces would be “under human oversight and control”.
Science fiction or science fact?
The T-800 from the Terminator film franchise.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest
The T-800 from the Terminator film franchise. Photograph: Melinda Sue
Gordon/Allstar/Paramount Pictures
While the suggestion of killer robots conjures images from science
fiction such as the Terminator’s T-800 or Robocop’s ED-209, lethal
autonomous weapons are already in use. Samsung’s SGR-A1 sentry gun,
which is reportedly technically capable of firing autonomously but is
disputed whether it is deployed as such, is in use along the South
Korean border of the 2.5m-wide Korean Demilitarized Zone.
The fixed-place sentry gun, developed on behalf of the South Korean
government, was the first of its kind with an autonomous system capable
of performing surveillance, voice-recognition, tracking and firing with
mounted machine gun or grenade launcher. But it is not the only
autonomous weapon system in development, with prototypes available for
land, air and sea combat.
The UK’s Taranis drone, in development by BAE Systems, is intended to be
capable of carrying air-to-air and air-to-ground ordnance
intercontinentally and incorporating full autonomy. The unmanned combat
aerial vehicle, about the size of a BAE Hawk, the plane used by the Red
Arrows, had its first test flight in 2013 and is expected to be
operational some time after 2030 as part of the Royal Air Force’s Future
Offensive Air System, destined to replace the human-piloted Tornado GR4
warplanes.
Russia, the US and other countries are currently developing robotic
tanks that can either be remote controlled or operate autonomously.
These projects range from autonomous versions of the Russian Uran-9
unmanned combat ground vehicle, to conventional tanks retrofitted with
autonomous systems.
The US’s autonomous warship, the Sea Hunter built by Vigor Industrial,
was launched in 2016 and, while still in development, is intended to
have offensive capabilities including anti-submarine ordnance. Under the
surface, Boeing’s autonomous submarine systems built on the Echo Voyager
platform are also being considered for long-range deep-sea military use.
The Guardian view on robots as weapons: the human factor
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/20/elon-musk-killer-robots-experts-outright-ban-lethal-autonomous-weapons-war
Open letter signed by Tesla chief and Alphabet’s Mustafa Suleyman urges
UN to block use of lethal autonomous weapons to prevent third age of war
A killer robot from the 2014 remake of Robocop.
The open letter read: ‘lethal autonomous weapons will permit armed
conflict to be fought at a scale greater than ever, and at timescales
faster than humans can comprehend.’
Samuel Gibbs
Sunday 20 August 2017 10.01 EDT Last modified on Monday 21 August 2017
06.24 EDT
Some of the world’s leading robotics and artificial intelligence
pioneers are calling on the United Nations to ban the development and
use of killer robots.
Tesla’s Elon Musk and Alphabet’s Mustafa Suleyman are leading a group of
116 specialists from across 26 countries who are calling for the ban on
autonomous weapons.
The UN recently voted to begin formal discussions on such weapons which
include drones, tanks and automated machine guns. Ahead of this, the
group of founders of AI and robotics companies have sent an open letter
to the UN calling for it to prevent the arms race that is currently
under way for killer robots.
In their letter, the founders warn the review conference of the
convention on conventional weapons that this arms race threatens to
usher in the “third revolution in warfare” after gunpowder and nuclear arms.
The founders wrote: “Once developed, lethal autonomous weapons will
permit armed conflict to be fought at a scale greater than ever, and at
timescales faster than humans can comprehend. These can be weapons of
terror, weapons that despots and terrorists use against innocent
populations, and weapons hacked to behave in undesirable ways.
“We do not have long to act. Once this Pandora’s box is opened, it will
be hard to close.”
Play VideoPlay
Current Time 0:00
Duration Time 2:21
In My Opinion: we should be more afraid of computers than we are
Experts have previously warned that AI technology has reached a point
where the deployment of autonomous weapons is feasible within years,
rather than decades. While AI can be used to make the battlefield a
safer place for military personnel, experts fear that offensive weapons
that operate on their own would lower the threshold of going to battle
and result in greater loss of human life.
The letter, launching at the opening of the International Joint
Conference on Artificial Intelligence (IJCAI) in Melbourne on Monday,
has the backing of high-profile figures in the robotics field and
strongly stresses the need for urgent action, after the UN was forced to
delay a meeting that was due to start Monday to review the issue.
The founders call for “morally wrong” lethal autonomous weapons systems
to be added to the list of weapons banned under the UN’s convention on
certain conventional weapons (CCW) brought into force in 1983, which
includes chemical and intentionally blinding laser weapons.
Toby Walsh, Scientia professor of artificial intelligence at the
University of New South Wales in Sydney, said: “Nearly every technology
can be used for good and bad, and artificial intelligence is no
different. It can help tackle many of the pressing problems facing
society today: inequality and poverty, the challenges posed by climate
change and the ongoing global financial crisis.
“However, the same technology can also be used in autonomous weapons to
industrialise war. We need to make decisions today choosing which of
these futures we want.”
Musk, one of the signatories of the open letter, has repeatedly warned
for the need for pro-active regulation of AI, calling it humanity’s
biggest existential threat, but while AI’s destructive potential is
considered by some to be vast it is also thought be distant.
Ryan Gariepy, the founder of Clearpath Robotics said: “Unlike other
potential manifestations of AI which still remain in the realm of
science fiction, autonomous weapons systems are on the cusp of
development right now and have a very real potential to cause
significant harm to innocent people along with global instability.”
This is not the first time the IJCAI, one of the world’s leading AI
conferences, has been used as a platform to discuss lethal autonomous
weapons systems. Two years ago the conference was used to launch an open
letter signed by thousands of AI and robotics researchers including Musk
and Stephen Hawking similarly calling for a ban, which helped push the
UN into formal talks on the technologies.
The UK government opposed such a ban on lethal autonomous weapons in
2015, with the Foreign Office stating that “international humanitarian
law already provides sufficient regulation for this area”. It said that
the UK was not developing lethal autonomous weapons and that all weapons
employed by UK armed forces would be “under human oversight and control”.
Science fiction or science fact?
The T-800 from the Terminator film franchise.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest
The T-800 from the Terminator film franchise. Photograph: Melinda Sue
Gordon/Allstar/Paramount Pictures
While the suggestion of killer robots conjures images from science
fiction such as the Terminator’s T-800 or Robocop’s ED-209, lethal
autonomous weapons are already in use. Samsung’s SGR-A1 sentry gun,
which is reportedly technically capable of firing autonomously but is
disputed whether it is deployed as such, is in use along the South
Korean border of the 2.5m-wide Korean Demilitarized Zone.
The fixed-place sentry gun, developed on behalf of the South Korean
government, was the first of its kind with an autonomous system capable
of performing surveillance, voice-recognition, tracking and firing with
mounted machine gun or grenade launcher. But it is not the only
autonomous weapon system in development, with prototypes available for
land, air and sea combat.
The UK’s Taranis drone, in development by BAE Systems, is intended to be
capable of carrying air-to-air and air-to-ground ordnance
intercontinentally and incorporating full autonomy. The unmanned combat
aerial vehicle, about the size of a BAE Hawk, the plane used by the Red
Arrows, had its first test flight in 2013 and is expected to be
operational some time after 2030 as part of the Royal Air Force’s Future
Offensive Air System, destined to replace the human-piloted Tornado GR4
warplanes.
Russia, the US and other countries are currently developing robotic
tanks that can either be remote controlled or operate autonomously.
These projects range from autonomous versions of the Russian Uran-9
unmanned combat ground vehicle, to conventional tanks retrofitted with
autonomous systems.
The US’s autonomous warship, the Sea Hunter built by Vigor Industrial,
was launched in 2016 and, while still in development, is intended to
have offensive capabilities including anti-submarine ordnance. Under the
surface, Boeing’s autonomous submarine systems built on the Echo Voyager
platform are also being considered for long-range deep-sea military use.
The Guardian view on robots as weapons: the human factor
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/20/elon-musk-killer-robots-experts-outright-ban-lethal-autonomous-weapons-war
Leo Sgouros
Aug 21, 2017, 4:04:15 PM8/21/17
to
Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
Fred J. McCall
Aug 22, 2017, 12:15:28 AM8/22/17
to
Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
>Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
BigPol
Aug 22, 2017, 1:13:13 AM8/22/17
to
On 8/21/2017 11:15 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>
> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
In essence a Cruise Missile is a killer Robot. and other items also.
> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>
> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
>
>
--
All of us have to stand up and eliminate the attack on the Constitution
by the
communist infested liberal Democrat party.
Fred J. McCall
Aug 22, 2017, 4:13:04 AM8/22/17
to
BigPol <Bio...@ouch.com> wrote:
>On 8/21/2017 11:15 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>>
>> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
>> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
>
>In essence a Cruise Missile is a killer Robot. and other items also.
>
No AI involved in cruise missiles.
>On 8/21/2017 11:15 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>>
>> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
>> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
>
>In essence a Cruise Missile is a killer Robot. and other items also.
>
gamo
Aug 22, 2017, 7:39:55 AM8/22/17
to
El 22/08/17 a las 10:13, Fred J. McCall escribió:
every vessel is in danger, add some AI to the fire control, and
you got the perfect storm for convencional armys.
--
http://gamo.eu.pn/
Do not mix your decrepitude with that of the world.
Different racing teams.
> BigPol <Bio...@ouch.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/21/2017 11:15 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>>>
>>> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
>>> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
>>
>> In essence a Cruise Missile is a killer Robot. and other items also.
>>
>
> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
>
>
Not necessary for the argument. In an scenario of cheap missiles,
>
>> On 8/21/2017 11:15 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>>>
>>> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
>>> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
>>
>> In essence a Cruise Missile is a killer Robot. and other items also.
>>
>
> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
>
>
every vessel is in danger, add some AI to the fire control, and
you got the perfect storm for convencional armys.
--
http://gamo.eu.pn/
Do not mix your decrepitude with that of the world.
Different racing teams.
Airyx
Aug 22, 2017, 10:00:13 AM8/22/17
to
On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 3:13:04 AM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
In once sense, you are correct, since a cruise missile, by definition, has a very short life, and doesn't have a chance to learn and adapt.
> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
However, an AGM-158C comes very close.
Leo Sgouros
Aug 22, 2017, 10:21:18 AM8/22/17
to
On Monday, August 21, 2017 at 11:15:28 PM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>
> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
Previous images seen of the Dallas Police department's bomb robots appeared to show a Northrop Grumman Remotec Andros F6A or F6B, a standard model for police and military use. It's highly customizable, and can look very different depending on which configuration of arm and sensors are configured. The closest known Andros resides in Comal County, Texas, 250 miles away.
> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>
> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
On July 11, the Dallas Police Department confirmed from its official Twitter account that the model used was an Andros Marc V-
http://www.popsci.com/police-used-bomb-disposal-robot-to-kill-dallas-shooting-suspect
Daniel H. Wilson - Bio, Facts, Family | Famous Birthdays
https://www.famousbirthdays.com/people/daniel-wilson.html
He's also worked at Microsoft Research, Xerox, and Northrop Grumman. His novels Robopocalypse and Robogenisis were both LA Times bestseller
Ironic, no?
Fred J. McCall
Aug 22, 2017, 2:28:47 PM8/22/17
to
gamo <ga...@telecable.es> wrote:
>El 22/08/17 a las 10:13, Fred J. McCall escribió:
>> BigPol <Bio...@ouch.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/21/2017 11:15 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>>>>
>>>> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
>>>> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
>>>
>>> In essence a Cruise Missile is a killer Robot. and other items also.
>>>
>>
>> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
>>
>
>Not necessary for the argument.
>
Yeah, kind of necessary for the argument. That pesky word
>El 22/08/17 a las 10:13, Fred J. McCall escribió:
>> BigPol <Bio...@ouch.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/21/2017 11:15 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> Leo Sgouros <adra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Killer Robots would be made for the military by persons like Musk. Given that he is rolling out a.i start-ups himself, I suspect he is merely staking out ground for possible future legislation and, therefore, future profit.
>>>>
>>>> You don't know much about his views, do you? Musk is sort of paranoid
>>>> about the whole "machines rise up and take over" scenario.
>>>
>>> In essence a Cruise Missile is a killer Robot. and other items also.
>>>
>>
>> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
>>
>
>Not necessary for the argument.
>
'autonomous' is in there.
>
>In an scenario of cheap missiles,
>every vessel is in danger, add some AI to the fire control, and
>you got the perfect storm for convencional armys.
>
Fred J. McCall
Aug 22, 2017, 2:47:54 PM8/22/17
to
Airyx <ewei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 3:13:04 AM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>
>> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
>>
>
>In once sense, you are correct, since a cruise missile, by definition, has a very short life, and doesn't have a chance to learn and adapt.
>
Not required to be 'AI'.
>On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 3:13:04 AM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>
>> No AI involved in cruise missiles.
>>
>
>In once sense, you are correct, since a cruise missile, by definition, has a very short life, and doesn't have a chance to learn and adapt.
>
>
>However, an AGM-158C comes very close.
>
EO weapon or ARM is 'AI'. I note that Wonkypedia does use the 'AI'
tag for the decision making because of multiple sensors, but I think
they've been talking to LM marketing.
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
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