The ETG alcohol test.............beating it or not.

[Nun Giver]

It seems an overly sensitive test for a pre-employment as ethanol is
legal for most. Apparently to be safe one needs 80 hours to clear
the ethanol than becomes chemically conjugated to gluconate.

To speed the process what might one do? One might increase fluid
intake though to avoid water diluting/washing out of your electrolytes
that use of some sort of isotonic salty solution would seem warranted.
This might mean more than just NaCl and include at least some KCl.
One can get too much of both and this is not a good thing hence the
isotonic nature. And too much can be serious, really.

It is claim dilute urine is detected by appearance, creatine content,
and specific gravity. Riboflavin can help color urine but it can result
in a false THC postiive or perhaps increase the tests sensitivity to THC.

let the fun begin.................Trig

[Nun Giver]

By the looks of it NaCL and NaHCO3 should be enough. I did add
some MgCl2 for extra measure. Fluid volume so far has been 2 litres.
It now occurs to me I should have checked my weight. It seems a
good way to clear the whole GI track. Next a pot of coffee?
This first round was done by taste and estimates per experience
as to what is safe. Next round will be by the numbers at
something like 154 mmol/L of Na and also Cl. I am still play
with the amounts so may add further thoughts.
One doesn't want too much K+.
The kidneys need to be fully working for this experiment, YMMV.
At this level I'd bet one could drop their urate levels.

Also I've added taurine and creatine to the mix.
The goal today to flush the chemical out not to simply
dilute the urine. Dilution comes tomorrow in 'moderation' and
with creatine near sample time. Perhaps 5 grams? I wonder
if taurine might be preferred as its not tested for? The issue
would be to what extent one absorbs it out of the gut and
then spills it afterwards.

I have no desire for liquids but I've the urge to eat
a horse or pig...................................Trig

[Nun Giver]

On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:25:39 PM UTC-7, Nun Giver wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:11:58 PM UTC-7, Nun Giver wrote:
> > It seems an overly sensitive test for a pre-employment as ethanol is
> > legal for most. Apparently to be safe one needs 80 hours to clear
> > the ethanol than becomes chemically conjugated to gluconate.
> >

<snip>

>
> I have no desire for liquids but I've the urge to eat
> a horse or pig...................................Trig

A pint of tomato drink containing salt, 500 mL H2O, and
4 cups of coffee plus 500 mg of vitamin C.

To the crapper...................Trig

[Nun Giver]

Another 0.75 liter in with salts.
The next question is what is standard urine out put?
What is the maximum uptake of water out of the GI tract?
What is the maximum out the kidneys with coffee and
mildly salt fluids.

Don't try this at home, do it only with professional services, LOL.

Trig

[Nun Giver]

Per that untrustworthy source Wikipedia healthy kidney can
put out circa a liter per hour. Average output per day
is at or well under 2.5 liters. So each 2.5 liter taken it,
absorbed and the excreted by the kidneys should
count as day for ETG testing? Perhaps a bit more.

More coffee onboard yet still.............Trig


Note if this works it will have the drug testing boys will be smearing
excrement of the walls of U-Tube. Oh that rights, they've
already done that.

[Nun Giver]

My kidneys put out more than a liter per hour.
Blood pressure is up a little, so perhaps a bit too
much sodium chloride. I'll switch to NaHCO3 as it
lacks the chloride pressor effect.

The bowels don't have much in them. Most of another liter in.
No more coffee.

Well, I going to drop all ethanol for some months. I'll watch
my FBG and PP BGs plus my BP. I'll bet they'll all improve
given what Lustig has to say.

The rest of liter down the hatch.

Should I try for dilution at sample time?

I feel fine. I may need to skip the Na with the next liter.

I'll need to keep a tighter watch of the urine output to
confirm output. Coffee may have played a role on the earlier
hour.

Trig

[Nun Giver]

Vitamin C with some tests raises the apparent creatinine levels.
Higher is better provided the reading isn't too high as they will
suspect kidney disease.
The proposal that may not work is to raise creatine levels in that
it is converted to creatinine and urinated out. Do the tests tell
the difference? I'd guess some creatine is spilled by the kidneys.

Trig

[Nun Giver]

About 900 mL of urine out in an hour apparently though I suppose
that counts part of another hour. I'll try the count again, this
time from dry to voids. BP is a little high at 138/85 but I've
taken in a couple days worth of salt so I can't be upset.

I'll bump the BP down by Alt means and failing that by conventional
means.

More fluids now.......................Trig

[Nun Giver]

Working on a plain water liter. I am going slower as
I have meal on board. I'll try some citrulline as the BP is
at the above BP.

[John H. Gohde]

If it works, you would be able to bottle it and retire a multi-
millionaire overnight. :)

[Nun Giver]

The theory is mainly wash out so its the re-invention of
water or water with salt. It seems few have written on the
topic and what that is written is based on in the box
"thinking."

I ingested a liter at the start of the hour.
The BP is better though the diastolic is up at
125/83 at pulse of 57.

I did have the thought that uncontaminated urine
might be a useful flushing agent. So perhaps we can get
some to drink bottled urine? It would have salt and all
the metabolic breakdown products ;) such that testing
would clearly be fooled. This would be vastly better
than taking creatine in an effort of making more of
similarly named waste product creatinine.

This experiment does bring to mind the 19th century
practice of hydrotherapy/water therapy. I've not read
on the topic, I wonder if they ever added salts to
the "solution."

Trig

[Nun Giver]

Here is one of the must reads on the topic of ETG and
related testing.

http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/4/317.full

On another note diluting the urine dilutes saltiness of the
urine. So I'll add a 2X dose of oral rehydration salts to
the mix close to sample time.

Coffee does help with urine output.

Nutritional yeast does add some color by way of riboflavin
and hopefully other water soluble substances.

Taurine makes sense to keep the body handling the assorted
cations well and to keep them in or out of the cells respectively.

Burgers are too be eaten soon. Ideally beef kidneys ghastly as
they are would be perfect meal for testing I'd suspect. Cooking
water and all.

[Nun Giver]

One risk of coffee is one can get really caffeine wired.

One wonder how long it takes until the kidneys start kicking out
the excess salt and sodium? I've hit my max on uptake of liquids
out of the gut as I filled the crapper with loose stool.

And it will take too long to sort out the conversion of creatine
to creatinine. So I'll add another 5 grams. 4 doses of 5 grams
was used in some of the research to stock human subjects up with this
substance then afterwards the trial used a lower dose going on.

I wonder if whether histidine or proline could be used to confuse
the creatinine reading? Anyway they are in nutritional yeast so they
are on board already.

I'll back off on the fluids at bit. So I can eat and digest
the meat and yeast.

[Nun Giver]

Clearly the risk of fluids aside from the Na depletion which
I dealt with is the "runs." This should clear up but liquids
are at a stop now, me thinks. The sample time come up this
afternoon.

Had I known how close test sampling and how long in theory EtOH exposure
can be detected, I could have avoided this experiment.

Anyway folks this represents one of the best efforts ever posted
to the web or the usenet that I can find on this topic.
Hopefully, someone can improve on it.

I am out of here (until the next posting this hour)
and will be completely dry for many months.

Trig

And they haven't told me if the job is on or off planet, LOL.
Likely just somewhere at the edge of planet looking into the
the primordial abyss. I joke only slightly.

[Nun Giver]

The urine now tests saltier and is slightly yellow.
But I can't speak to the creatinine level rather only
blindly stab in a general direction.


Time for more red meat and yeast with digestive enzymes.

Trig

[Nun Giver]

Well it was a screening test. I could see no effort to check
alcohol but the list of drugs was long. Apparently per the hand-out
riboflavin was not an issue for false results.

So would I have helped myself if they had checked for
the ethanol metabolite? We will never know.

Now to flush out the salt and a check the BP which I'll
bet is up.
Check.
And it is different. 138/79 at pulse of 71.
Not wildly off. I'd like the top number down and I will
get it so.

I need fish oil and more boswellia.........Trig

Now to think about old old skills from a generation ago.
Welcome to the 1970's, LOL. Just don't turn off the vacuum
tubes as they take time to warm up.

[Nun Giver]

Well the BP is better at 125/71 at pulse of 73.
I think I may still clearing the salt excess.

Trig

[Nun Giver]

Clearly the urine at test time was dilute. It was yellow
but clear different from urine I am now putting out.

One could claim previous day diarrhea to explain the altered urine
composition and that you had rehydrated with a salt solution.

[satx2...@gmail.com]

im going through the same thing got it down to a science woult like to chat