Mercury Test Results
Zinn
"David Jones" <an...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:v7cv3u4h8n2e3bqa1...@4ax.com...
> Hi
>
> I just got my test results back. My blood serum level is 1ug/L and my
> urinary level is 7ug/L. The hospital says that serum levels below
> 10ug/L is normal and they'd only recommend removing amalgam fillings
> if serum levels were above 6ug/L.
>
> They also say that you only get a toxic effect if serum levels are
> 50ug/L or higher or 100ug/L in the urine.
>
> I also asked about the (hyper)sensitivity issue and how it would be
> determined if someone was. I was told that is was very hard to do so,
> and with levels as low as mine, it was not likely.
>
> If anyone has any input on the above, I would be grateful to hear it.
>
> DJ
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious
> He to whom this emotion is a stranger,who can no longer pause to
> wonder and stand in rapt awe, is as good as dead.
>
> Albert Einstein
>
I asked a doctor once how much environmental medicine is given in med school
here in the states and he said none... then I remember all the issues that
have come up regarding different treatments for illness and the medical
community is divided into many sections on this one.
I know that our body was designed to have trace minerals in them, and I am
of the opinion that if something is over the amount we are supposed to have
<it will harm us.>
The medical community still cannot make up their mind if the egg is good for
a person or not, well, perhaps just the yolk is ok, or maybe the white is
ok only, or could be just once a week is all right, adnauseum!
Mercury is highly highly toxic, several people could have the same amount
and all feel differently.
I would do as much research as possible, have you checked into the
chealation therapy, is done by IV drip and will bind the heavy metal to the
substance in the fluid.. I have known several people that have done these t
reatments and they all felt it did help alot and the amount of the heavy
metals were reduced.
The treatments are tedious and time consuming, insurance did not cover the
costs last time I checked, was several years ago now.
I had all my mercury filling removed, not sure if the porcelain fillings are
much better :( teeth ache all the time.
--
---
Zinn
website reopened
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/PandorasChemicalBox/links.html
Wally Davis
I was told by an ophthalmologist that I was allergic to mercury and had all of
my fillings replaced.
It was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life.
janor
"Wally Davis" <wally...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:6si04uojtuc45bvfv...@4ax.com...
> Hi David,
>
> I was told by an ophthalmologist that I was allergic to mercury and had
all of
> my fillings replaced.
>
> It was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life.
>
please tell us why so that we don't make that mistake
janor
Renate Ratlos
>I just got my test results back. My blood serum level is 1ug/L and my
>urinary level is 7ug/L.
Low levels do not mean that you are not poisoned.
>The hospital says that serum levels below
>10ug/L is normal and they'd only recommend removing amalgam fillings
>if serum levels were above 6ug/L.
If they poison 90 percent of the people it is normal to have mercury in the
body. But it is not NATURAL!
normal = everybody has it
In Bangladesh it is normal to be poisoned by arsen.
>They also say that you only get a toxic effect if serum levels are
>50ug/L or higher or 100ug/L in the urine.
At these levels you have a MORE visible poisoning.
>I also asked about the (hyper)sensitivity issue and how it would be
>determined if someone was. I was told that is was very hard to do so,
>and with levels as low as mine, it was not likely.
In other words: they are clueless.
RR
--
Hermann, das verzeihe ich Dir nie!
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>I was told by an ophthalmologist that I was allergic to mercury and had all of
>my fillings replaced.
>
>It was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life.
Would you believe the guy at the gasoline station telling you to buy
"Titanic" stock shares?
RR
--
Ordnen Sie die vier abgebildeten zwei-schneidigen Persönlichkeiten
den Begriffen Iso- und Neoschizomer zu.
TonyB
"normal" ranges are determined!
My dentist reckons that drilling out mercury fillings makes you ingest more
of the mercury than if you leave them alone. He says once bonded in the
amalgam the mercury is effectively unavailable for absorption into the body.
I wanted them all taken out and replaced with porcelain, as I've had some of
them since I was 14 years old. He advised against it, which carries a lot of
weight with me as I'm a private patient and he'd have make a fair bit out of
the job.
TonyB
"Renate Ratlos " <renate...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3c416a8...@news1.ewetel.de...
Hans Lennros
The governor of California, Gray Davis, doesn't
happen to be your brother, does he?
Or are you just "brothers in arms" .... ;-)
Hans
==================================
Wally Davis
Gray Davis is not a relative. Don't forget. I said the replacement of the
fillings was the worst decision I ever made.
Renate Ratlos
>There might be something in what Renate says, I've often wondered how
>"normal" ranges are determined!
>
>My dentist reckons that drilling out mercury fillings makes you ingest more
>of the mercury than if you leave them alone.
Right and wrong.
One day the fillings MUST be taken out.
So, the critical moment cannot be esacaped.
The longer you try to avoid taking out the fillings the longer they poison
you.
>He says once bonded in the
>amalgam the mercury is effectively unavailable for absorption into the body.
Wrong.
Mercury is set free as vapor
and is wandering through the tissues
and is getting into the digestive tract.
>I wanted them all taken out and replaced with porcelain, as I've had some of
>them since I was 14 years old. He advised against it, which carries a lot of
>weight with me as I'm a private patient and he'd have make a fair bit out of
>the job.
Taking out the fillings WILL lessen your burden with mercury and other
heavy metals.
BUT it will lead to loss of dental material.
It is NOT sure if ANYTHING will be better with respect to any symptoms you
might have now.
Taking out the fillings IS a risk.
Leaving them is a risk.
We have NO certainty in any way.
Except for one: The earlier taken out the lesser the amalgam fillings will
poison you.
RR
--
> "Too Much Dinero"
- If you live close to Thiefuana !
(Hans Lennros, DDS, in s.m.d.)
Hans Lennros
Hans
=================
"Wally Davis" <wally...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3aa14uglkelprimsu...@4ax.com...
Barry Davis
the one I knew who did was most definitely toxic with Mercury
.,...........poetic justice in my opinion for his laughing at any suggestion
that amalgam fillings might be bad for you and the ruination he made of our
teeth with his drill and fill attitude
Sunsol
>
> I also asked about the (hyper)sensitivity issue and how it would be
> determined if someone was. I was told that is was very hard to do so,
> and with levels as low as mine, it was not likely.
>
>
> DJ
DJ, I have read that the mercury is mostly released when you chew. Try
living on mush, soup and yoghurt for a week and see if you feel better. You
can be exposed to a lot of mercury when they are removed. If you decide to
have them removed, make sure your dentist protects you. White fillings might
be worse. I have heard gold is less toxic and more expensive.
Sally
Roy Brown
listen to their ophthalmologist about their teeth?
"janor" <jan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JfZ%7.5364$kB3.5...@news1.cableinet.net...
Wally Davis
>>I don't ask my dentist about treatments for my eyes. Why would any one
>>listen to their ophthalmologist about their teeth?
>>
Roy,
I developed a reaction to thimerosal when I was wearing contact lenses and
storing them in a solution containing thimerosal. The ophthalmologist said I
could have lost my vision if I had waited another week before I went in to see
her. I had quite a reaction. She said I was allergic to mercury and it cleared
up when she substituted a non thimerosal preservative for contact lense storage.
A couple of months later I saw a debate on a local TV program between an MD and
representatives from the ADA in which even the ADA representative said that the
only people that should get their amalgams removed were those that are allergic
to mercury.
Sorry you were confused by my original post. It was too brief I am afraid.
Wally Davis
>>What happened to you?
>>Hans
>>=================
My occlusion was destroyed.
As were all of my original records.
Wally Davis
My occlusion was destroyed. The original records of my teeth were lost or thrown
away: study models, x-rays, and photographs.
If you are going to get your amalgams replaced just be aware that things can and
do go wrong sometimes. Sometimes no one can fix the occlusion once it is
destroyed.
Renate Ratlos
<Bnd...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Maybe you all need to examine why so many dentists commit suicide !!!!!!!
Are there any reliable statistics about that?
>the one I knew who did was most definitely toxic with Mercury
>.,...........poetic justice in my opinion for his laughing at any suggestion
>that amalgam fillings might be bad for you and the ruination he made of our
>teeth with his drill and fill attitude
Stupidity kills.
RR
--
Diese Strahlung besitzt die Lizenz zum Töten!
Renate Ratlos
>>Low levels do not mean that you are not poisoned.
>
>Maybe, but the serum level does seem very low.
It is only FIGURES!!!
>I'm thinking that my
>urinary level would seem to indicate that my body is excreting any
>mercury quite efficiently, but am quite happy to be corrected.
If about the same amount which is set free is deposited somewhere else in
the body, the figures may be low, but the deposit still can be large.
The mass of poison may be low, but the more poisonous a poison is the less
you need...
>>If they poison 90 percent of the people it is normal to have mercury in the
>>body. But it is not NATURAL!
>
>Yes, but if people without amalgam fillings show low mercury levels in
>the blood, then surely that would show that such levels are unlikely
>to be connected to amalgam fillings.
Not neccessarily.
>(Perhaps from fish, though not
>likely in my case as I had been vegan for about 2 years before being
>tested.
Vegan is rubbish. You DO need vitamins etc, which are NOT in plants. So you
MUST eat at least eggs and some kind of cheese and drink milk.
The halflife of mercury is very long. Two years is merely nothing compared
to 20 or 30 years the mercury stays in nerve tissue.
>I understand other foodstuffs, such as fruit & veg, can be
>tainted with mercury as well, so I do try to purchase organic wherever
>possible, although I don't know if organic is free of mercury
>contamination).
One cannot escape such poisons anymore.
>>>I also asked about the (hyper)sensitivity issue and how it would be
>>>determined if someone was. I was told that is was very hard to do so,
>>>and with levels as low as mine, it was not likely.
>>
>>In other words: they are clueless.
>
>I was indeed suprised by this response (especially coming from the
>Oral Medicine & Pathology unit at a London hospital!) as the
>Department of Health have stated that 'a few people may be
>hypersensitive' to amalgam , so I would have thought that there would
>be some guidelines on how to diagnose such people. If someone is
>hypersensitive then surely, however low the test results, they should
>not have amalgam fillings.
These bastards all the time mix up hypersensitivity (in the sense of
allergies!) and poisoning.
In the end they drive you do to allergy tests - which reveal nothing. Then
they shout "It is all psychic!"
Renate Ratlos
>I have heard gold is less toxic and more expensive.
True.
But you cannot use gold at all places.
And the cavity must have a U form.
Steven Fawks
of suicide similar to most others in similar professions and certainly
not the highest.
Fawks
Sunsol
> I did think of gold, and, like you, have heard that it is the least
> toxic, or most biocompatible, material for fillings. But I've heard
> that you shouldn't mix metals in the mouth,
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
I have also heard that metals shouldn't be mixed in the mouth. But my
dentist said it was no problem. I don't know what the truth is.
Sally
Sunsol
>
> I was told by an ophthalmologist that I was allergic to mercury and had
all of
> my fillings replaced.
are allergies only to proteins?
Sally
Sunsol
>
> I developed a reaction to thimerosal when I was wearing contact lenses and
> storing them in a solution containing thimerosal
Maybe using eye drops with thimerosal would be a good test for
hypersensitvity. Do they put it in eye drops, or only storing solution?
Sally
Vaughn Simon
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:30:26 -0000, "TonyB" <Nor...@Clarabob.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> >There might be something in what Renate says, I've often wondered how
> >"normal" ranges are determined!
> >
> >My dentist reckons that drilling out mercury fillings makes you ingest
more
> >of the mercury than if you leave them alone.
>
> Right and wrong.
>
> One day the fillings MUST be taken out.
>
> So, the critical moment cannot be esacaped.
Wrong RR, just ask any mortician. In fact, it is my ambition to take
several nice amalgams to the grave with me; but not too soon I hope!
Vaughn
Wally Davis
It will be shown on the label if it contains thimerosal.
Please be aware that I regret very much my decision to have my fillings
replaced.
It has cost me over $35,000 and a great deal of discomfort for the last 10
years.
Steven Bornfeld
antiamalgam folk). So I finally picked up a book on suicidology in a
bookstore. According to the preponderance of occupational studies done, suicide
among dentists is in fact higher than for the general population. But when
compared with other groups comprised mostly of white, educated males, dentists
fare about average. So, in this context anyway, the high suicide rate would
apparently be unrelated to mercury exposure.
Other than the fact that you didn't like your dentist, do you have any real
information that he was "definitely toxic with mercury"?
Steve
Renate Ratlos
<vaughnsimo...@att.net> wrote:
>> So, the critical moment cannot be esacaped.
>
> Wrong RR, just ask any mortician. In fact, it is my ambition to take
>several nice amalgams to the grave with me; but not too soon I hope!
If you are 60 or 70, perhaps.
But if you are 20 or 30 or 40?
What is the lifetime of an amalgam filling in a tooth?
RR
--
Gegen den böhsen Blick:
Sunsol
> Sally,
>
> It will be shown on the label if it contains thimerosal.
>
> Please be aware that I regret very much my decision to have my fillings
> replaced.
>
> It has cost me over $35,000 and a great deal of discomfort for the last 10
> years.
Wow. That is unbelievable, but I do believe you. Is there anyone out there
who is glad that they had their fillings removed?
Sally
Vaughn Simon
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:27:02 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
> <vaughnsimo...@att.net> wrote:
>
> >> So, the critical moment cannot be esacaped.
> >
> > Wrong RR, just ask any mortician. In fact, it is my ambition to
take
> >several nice amalgams to the grave with me; but not too soon I hope!
>
> If you are 60 or 70, perhaps.
>
> But if you are 20 or 30 or 40?
>
> What is the lifetime of an amalgam filling in a tooth?
I am sure that a dentist or two will chime in with a more learned
answer, but I am in my mid-50's and I do not remember ever having a filling
replaced except where there was additional decay. I do not keep track of
such things, but I would not be surprised to discover that I have 30+
year-old restorations in my mouth. I have never had a dentist say "it is
time to change some of these fillings". I have had several dentists say "we
need to cap that tooth".
Vaughn
Eric Lee Green
Strictly speaking, an allergy is an immune response to a substance
that is harmless. The typical symptom is that the mast cells in the
area that encounters the substance release histamines, which then
cause inflammation by attaching to receptors in that area. The
inflammation enlarges the blood vessels in the area and causes
"leakage" so that white blood cells can get out and kill the
intruder. Treatment generally consists of either a) removing the
offending substance, b) apply anti-inflamatory medicines to eliminate
the symptoms (the inflation), or c) antihistamines, either
antihistamines that block the release of histamines from mast cells,
or antihistamines that bind to the receptors to block the inflamatory
response.
I'm not qualified to talk about immune response to heavy metals. A
quick Google search shows that an immune response to gold is possible
when gold is injected in order to treat certain types of arthritis but
only when massive amounts of gold are injected. Whether this is common
or not, I don't know.
--
Eric Lee Green er...@badtux.org http://www.badtux.org
GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg
*** You do not preserve freedom by destroying freedom ***
Eric Lee Green
>>There might be something in what Renate says, I've often wondered how
>>"normal" ranges are determined!
>>
>>My dentist reckons that drilling out mercury fillings makes you ingest more
>>of the mercury than if you leave them alone.
>
> Right and wrong.
>
> One day the fillings MUST be taken out.
>
> So, the critical moment cannot be esacaped.
But it can be delayed. There are several things here:
1) every time you drill, you unavoidably destroy tooth structure. So
you want to drill as few times as possible in the life of a tooth,
meaning that drilling out a functional filling is destroying tooth
structure.
2) The health risks of having bad teeth are well known, and far more
deadly than the so-far hypothetical health risks of amalgam fillings.
There are currently no epidemiological studies showing increased
health risk from having amalgam fillings in one's mouth. There's
plenty of epidemiological studies showing increased health risks from
having bad teeth, ranging from economic issues (it's harder to get
good jobs if your teeth are bad) to dietary issues (it is hard to eat
a good quality diet with lots of fresh foods if you can't chew).
3) While I don't think I would recommend putting in new amalgam
fillings (and in fact did not do so when two of my amalgams failed), I
thus made the decision that, given that I show no health problems from
the mercury load that I've carried for over 20 years now, it makes no
sense to drill out those amalgams one second before it's necessary. I
value having my natural teeth more than I value some hypothetical
health benefit.
In other words, Renee talks about hypothetical risks. My health is good,
my mind is clear, and I've had amalgams stuck in my mouth for 20 years,
so those risks are entirely hypothetical to me. The risks of having
bad teeth, on the other hand, are quite real to me, having seen the
misery that it causes, and the health risks in terms of obesity,
increased risk of stroke, and increased risk of heart attack. Given
that stroke and heart attack are far more common than any kind of
reaction to amalgam....
Jan
>Date: 1/13/02 10:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <slrna44sk...@ehome.inhouse>
>There are currently no epidemiological studies showing increased
>health risk from having amalgam fillings in one's mouth.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/indexa.html
Jan
Eric Lee Green
>>health risk from having amalgam fillings in one's mouth.
> [quack links deleted]
http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html
Come back when you have passed a biochemistry course or two
and have some sort of qualifications to make judgement on
advanced scientific matters.
Jan
>Message-id: <slrna45ov...@ehome.inhouse>
>
>Come back when you have passed a biochemistry course or two
>and have some sort of qualifications to make judgement on
>advanced scientific matters.
I'll make you a little bet.
You pick 100? 50? 20? people at random and ask them.
On any given subject.
Do you want to hear what is written in a book,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Or do you wish to hear form someone with ACTUAL experience.
Guess what they will pick??
Jan
Eric Lee Green
> You pick 100? 50? 20? people at random and ask them.
60% of people think that we are being visited by flying saucers.
'Nuff said.
Science is not a democracy. Science is the search for truth. Truth
is what truth is, not what the majority believe it to be.
--
Eric Lee Green er...@badtux.org http://www.badtux.org
GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg
BadTux: Linux Penguin Gone Bad
Jan
>Message-id: <slrna46ac...@ehome.inhouse>
>
>In article <20020114142052...@mb-fx.aol.com>, Jan wrote:
>> You pick 100? 50? 20? people at random and ask them.
>
>60% of people think that we are being visited by flying saucers.
http://www.geocities.com/cbpdoc/skeptictricks.html
Please stay on topic.
>'Nuff said.
Too much.
>Science is not a democracy. Science is the search for truth. Truth
>is what truth is, not what the majority believe it to be.
'll make you a little bet.
You pick 100? 50? 20? people at random and ask them.
On any given subject.
Do you want to hear what is written in a book,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Or do you wish to hear form someone with ACTUAL experience.
Guess what they will pick??
Jan
Wanna bet Eric?
Chicken?
Jan
Eric Lee Green
> You pick 100? 50? 20? people at random and ask them.
Science is not a democracy. Just because random people believe something
does not make it true. Just because random people think they see something
does not make it true. Science is about truth, not about what the majority
of people believe.
Thomas Mueller
>Vegan is rubbish. You DO need vitamins etc, which are NOT in plants. So you
>MUST eat at least eggs and some kind of cheese and drink milk.
I think the only nutrient difficult to get on a vegan diet is vitamin B12.
Laurie Forti, founder of low-activity newsgroup alt.food.vegan.science, believes
veganism is the natural and preferable way for humans. My only question would
regard vitamin B12.
I have difficulty, either digestive and/or allergic, with animal protein foods,
wonder if any preservative chemicals are added to plain fresh or frozen meats,
poultry, fish and nonfish seafood.
I picked up this thread in alt.support.mcs, don't know where (which newsgroup)
you got in. If discussion of veganism is to continue, it might be desirable to
modify the Newsgroups: line.
Thomas Mueller
>Simply an "old-wives-tale". Recent research has shown dentists' rates
>of suicide similar to most others in similar professions and certainly
>not the highest.
from Steven Bornfeld <mari...@hotmail.com>:
> I always wondered at this frequently quoted statistic (much used by
>antiamalgam folk). So I finally picked up a book on suicidology in a
bookstore. According to the preponderance of occupational studies done, suicide
>among dentists is in fact higher than for the general population. But when
>compared with other groups comprised mostly of white, educated males, dentists
>fare about average. So, in this context anyway, the high suicide rate would
>apparently be unrelated to mercury exposure.
> Other than the fact that you didn't like your dentist, do you have any real
>information that he was "definitely toxic with mercury"?
I've heard of psychiatrists having a high suicide rate, but not dentists, though
I have no statistics at hand. Maybe seeing all those mentally disturbed people
convinces the psychiatrists that life really is hopeless?
Exposure to toxic chemicals on the job makes me think of shoemakers and shoe
repair people, though this is not mercury-related, and not suicide-related as
far as I know.
Renate Ratlos
<vaughnsimo...@att.net> wrote:
>> What is the lifetime of an amalgam filling in a tooth?
>
> I am sure that a dentist or two will chime in with a more learned
>answer, but I am in my mid-50's and I do not remember ever having a filling
>replaced except where there was additional decay.
This is it.
The cracks in the material lead to decay.
Thus the fillings have to be removed. In general the lifetime is about 7 to
10 years.
This by the way shows that the longevity of the amalgam fillings is not as
high as claimed.
>I do not keep track of
>such things, but I would not be surprised to discover that I have 30+
>year-old restorations in my mouth.
May happen for some, but not for all fillings.
>I have never had a dentist say "it is
>time to change some of these fillings".
>I have had several dentists say "we need to cap that tooth".
Which is a replacement for the filling.
RR
--
>Und wie nennt man Menschen, die sich auf diese Art der Verhütung verlassen ???
ELTERN !
(Minerva in http://f23.parsimony.net/forum49144/messages/17541.htm)
Renate Ratlos
>Strictly speaking, an allergy is an immune response to a substance
>that is harmless.
Not neccessarily harmless!
>The typical symptom is that the mast cells in the
>area that encounters the substance release histamines, which then
>cause inflammation by attaching to receptors in that area. The
>inflammation enlarges the blood vessels in the area and causes
>"leakage" so that white blood cells can get out and kill the
>intruder.
Not necessarily so.
The area showing the effects can be somewhere else!
>I'm not qualified to talk about immune response to heavy metals. A
>quick Google search shows that an immune response to gold is possible
>when gold is injected in order to treat certain types of arthritis but
>only when massive amounts of gold are injected. Whether this is common
>or not, I don't know.
Gold can be VERY poisonous!
Renate Ratlos
>> So, the critical moment cannot be esacaped.
>
>But it can be delayed. There are several things here:
>
>1) every time you drill, you unavoidably destroy tooth structure.
Right.
>So you want to drill as few times as possible in the life of a tooth,
>meaning that drilling out a functional filling is destroying tooth
>structure.
Right.
>2) The health risks of having bad teeth are well known, and far more
>deadly than the so-far hypothetical health risks of amalgam fillings.
WRONG!!!!!
>There are currently no epidemiological studies showing increased
>health risk from having amalgam fillings in one's mouth.
Wrong. :-)
>3) While I don't think I would recommend putting in new amalgam
>fillings (and in fact did not do so when two of my amalgams failed), I
>thus made the decision that, given that I show no health problems from
>the mercury load that I've carried for over 20 years now, it makes no
>sense to drill out those amalgams one second before it's necessary.
Not wise.
>I value having my natural teeth more than I value some hypothetical
>health benefit.
You forget the longterm poisoning with low doses.
>My health is good,
Could be better without amalgams.
>my mind is clear,
Proof?
>and I've had amalgams stuck in my mouth for 20 years,
No proof.
>so those risks are entirely hypothetical to me.
You just don't realize it.
>The risks of having
>bad teeth, on the other hand, are quite real to me, having seen the
>misery that it causes,
>and the health risks in terms of obesity,
Proof?
>increased risk of stroke, and increased risk of heart attack.
You compare *infektions* with *no infections but poisoning*, and deny the
dangers of poisoning, thus you do not make a REAL comparison.
>Given that stroke and heart attack are far more common than any kind of
>reaction to amalgam....
This you do not know!
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>>Vegan is rubbish. You DO need vitamins etc, which are NOT in plants. So you
>>MUST eat at least eggs and some kind of cheese and drink milk.
>
>I think the only nutrient difficult to get on a vegan diet is vitamin B12.
As far as I know: yes.
But I am not sure if there are more ingredients.
The value of flavonoids in plants was found very late.
When will we find that in meat there are other substances we need?
>Laurie Forti, founder of low-activity newsgroup alt.food.vegan.science, believes
>veganism is the natural and preferable way for humans.
This is idiotic.
http://www.janegoodall.org/chimps/chimps_behav_hab.html
<quote>
Chimpanzees need a water supply and many kinds of fruits. They are
omnivores, and eat not only fruits, nuts, seeds, blossoms, leaves, etc.,
but many kinds of insects and also the meat of medium-sized mammals, which
they hunt.
</quote>
>My only question would regard vitamin B12.
There is more than Vitamin B12, I am afraid.
>I have difficulty, either digestive and/or allergic, with animal protein foods,
>wonder if any preservative chemicals are added to plain fresh or frozen meats,
>poultry, fish and nonfish seafood.
It is more complicated than adding AFTER slaughtering.
Animals are fed with antibiotics and other chemicals.
Animals are fed with small shrimps and Fisch (Gammelfisch), which are
caught for the only pupose of being fed to these animals.
Because of this eggs taste fishy.
Because of this antibiotics for human use do not work anymore: The bacteria
became resistent.
Fish contains pesticides and antibiotics dumped into the water.
And heavy metals like mercury.
If you want to try REAL meat you will have to go to wild areas like Alaska,
Greenland, New Zealand, Australia, Indonesia.
>I picked up this thread in alt.support.mcs, don't know where (which newsgroup)
>you got in. If discussion of veganism is to continue, it might be desirable to
>modify the Newsgroups: line.
Try de.alt.naturheilkunde
RR
--
Brigitte Rondholz: "Ich würde meine Unabhängigkeit und Selbständigkeit um
nichts auf der Welt aufgeben..."
Sascha Potrykus: "Als was sollte man dich auch anstellen?
Als Verkäuferin in der Waschdiskotek?"
Eric Lee Green
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:38:56 GMT, er...@badtux.org (Eric Lee Green) wrote:
>>There are currently no epidemiological studies showing increased
>>health risk from having amalgam fillings in one's mouth.
>
> Wrong. :-)
Okay. Please tell me how many additional deaths per 100,000 are caused by
having amalgam fillings in one's mouth. Please give me a cite for the
paper demonstrating this.
>>My health is good,
>
> Could be better without amalgams.
? I don't see how. My health is as good today as it's ever been, even
before I had amalgams. No illnesses, no chronic problems that I didn't
have before amalgams.
>>my mind is clear,
>
> Proof?
http://aescrypt.sourceforge.net
http://mtx.sourceforge.net
http://twofish-py.sourceforge.net
I also recently architected the BRU-Pro tape backup product, and
architected and wrote the majority of the DISCstor/NAS-HA product. I
also have written several new songs lately, thus demonstrating to
myself that my creativity is intact too. I keep careful track of my
mind's ability to conduct logical and creative operations, because
there is a history of early-onset Alzheimer's on my father's side of
the family. If/when such symptoms occur, I want to catch it in time
to make proper arrangements.
>>and I've had amalgams stuck in my mouth for 20 years,
>
> No proof.
I'm still here, right?
>>so those risks are entirely hypothetical to me.
>
> You just don't realize it.
True enough. I haven't died from amalgams in my mouth, nobody that I
know has died of amalgams in their mouth. My father died after having
a heart attack and stroke, my uncle Leon died of having a heart attack,
my grandfather on one side died of hepatitis-A after it attacked and
killed his liver, my grandfather on the other side died of a blood clot
following surgery to correct a worn-out hip, my favorite Aunt died of
lung cancer after smoking cigarettes for years, my grandmother on one
side died of a heart attack, ... not a single one of my relatives has
died due to amalgams in their mouth. Lots have died due to cancer or
heart attack though.
>>The risks of having
>>bad teeth, on the other hand, are quite real to me, having seen the
>>misery that it causes,
>
>>and the health risks in terms of obesity,
>
> Proof?
I have a link at http://badtux.org entitled "Over 40,000,000 Americans
at risk of dying because they're lazy fat-asses". My news agent will
not, alas, let me post such long links. But basically, heart disease
is the leading cause of death in the United States (1998 National
Vital Statistics Report). 700,000 Americans die each year from heart
disease. The vast majority of these deaths are directly attributable
to poor diet and lack of exercise. In all, the death rate due to heart
disease in the United States is 276.4 per 100,000 (1996). This is
approximately 1/4th of the deaths that occur in the United States
every year. What is the death rate due to amalgam in the United
States?
>>Given that stroke and heart attack are far more common than any kind of
>>reaction to amalgam....
>
> This you do not know!
Somehow if reaction to amalgam was killing 700,000 Americans per year,
I think somebody would notice!
--
Eric Lee Green er...@badtux.org http://www.badtux.org
GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg
it is short for Andrea
>B12 & D. There are plenty of ways for vegan's to get these, either
>though vitamin pills or foods / Soya milk with them added.
Vitamin B12 is not absorbed through the gut and cannot be digested as a pill.
If taken as a supplement, it should be either injected or taken sublingually
(under the tongue). Some older people may develop B12 deficiencies due to
failing absorption problems which may even show symptoms of senility, a problem
of misdiagnosis in some elderly. There are often some B12 deficiencies shown
in any group of hospitalized Alzheimers patients, a misdiangosis in this case
and often totally reversible.
Sorry, I know this is not about the topic of this thread. I personally am not
a believer in mercury toxicity from amalgam fillings, but you guys go ahead
with the endless debate. I'll go back to my corner. :)
Best regards,
LadyAndy2 in Los Angeles, CA (remove "nospam" to reply)
Check out our website too--do you love oak furniture?
http://www.barnfurniture.com
Renate Ratlos
>>>I'm thinking that my urinary level would seem to indicate that my body is excreting any
>>>mercury quite efficiently, but am quite happy to be corrected.
>
>>If about the same amount which is set free is deposited somewhere else in
>>the body, the figures may be low, but the deposit still can be large.
>
>Fair point. Does anyone no of any research that indicates whether or
>not Mercury is retained in organs, etc, even though the fluid levels
>are low. Is there anyway to test such retention (other than autopsy?)
Biopsy.
And some chemical tests.
The chemical tests have the disadvantage of not passing the brain barrier.
Another disadvantage: The chemicals to NOT react all the time and do NOT
react proportional to the deposits.
Taken several times the same amount of a chemical may release noting, then
suddenly larger volumes of mercury and ohter heavy metals.
This renders the chemicals useless for quantitative diagnostic.
We are looking for a chemical for such a diagnostic. We wish we had one...
>>Vegan is rubbish. You DO need vitamins etc, which are NOT in plants. So you
>>MUST eat at least eggs and some kind of cheese and drink milk.
>
>What vitamins are you referring to. The only tricky ones I know of are
>B12 & D. There are plenty of ways for vegan's to get these, either
>though vitamin pills or foods / Soya milk with them added. And plenty
>of sources suggest that it is neither natural nor healthy to consume
>dairy products.
And plenty of sources tell you that god created earth and that the suns
surrounds the earth.
Vitamin B12 is a BIG problem.
If you cannot drink milk or eat dairy products, you MUST take pills.
>>The halflife of mercury is very long. Two years is merely nothing compared
>>to 20 or 30 years the mercury stays in nerve tissue.
>
>Another good point. Does anyone know how long it takes for chelation
>to cleanse the mercury from the body? (and would it be successful in
>cleaning the mercury from the organs, or would it just flush the
>blood).
The mercury in the brain tissue is the major problem here as the chemicals
cannot pass the barrier.
Another problem is the activity of the chemicals, which sometime do work
and sometime do not work.
A REAL BIG problem is fact many people do not realize: The chemicals have
allergizing potential, so you cannot take them as often as you want.
>I'm thinking that, if it takes 20-30 years for the mercury to
>leave of it's own accord after removing all intake, then there's not
>much point having the amalgam removed anyway. :(
It does not leave IN TOTAL. After 20-30 year half of the initial amount
STILL IS THERE!
>>>I understand other foodstuffs, such as fruit & veg, can be
>>>tainted with mercury as well, so I do try to purchase organic wherever
>>>possible, although I don't know if organic is free of mercury
>>>contamination).
>>
>>One cannot escape such poisons anymore.
>
>In which case, is there any point in removing the amalgam fillings?
Of course there is. You have to reduce the poisonous burden as much as
possible.
Don't eat any meat which comes out of saltwater and don't use amalgam.
Pregnant women are warned not to eat sea fish.
read http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amabg002.htm
And avoid all materials which contain mercury.
Did you know that some poisons/insecticides/herbizides/whatever used in
agriculture contain mercury compounds?
RR
--
Wozu Tierversuche, wenn es Lehrer gibt!?
Renate Ratlos
Andrea) wrote:
>Vitamin B12 is not absorbed through the gut and cannot be digested as a pill.
Who says so???
>If taken as a supplement, it should be either injected or taken sublingually
>(under the tongue).
Under the tongue is totally useless.
There is an intrinsic factor in the colon. This is the critical matter.
>Some older people may develop B12 deficiencies due to
>failing absorption problems which may even show symptoms of senility, a problem
>of misdiagnosis in some elderly. There are often some B12 deficiencies shown
>in any group of hospitalized Alzheimers patients, a misdiangosis in this case
>and often totally reversible.
Are there any sources for this?
it is short for Andrea
>
I stand corrected. This was misinformation I got somewhere else, but upon
checking I find you are correct about this point. My apologies.
>>Some older people may develop B12 deficiencies due to
>>failing absorption problems which may even show symptoms of senility, a
>problem
>>of misdiagnosis in some elderly. There are often some B12 deficiencies
>shown
>>in any group of hospitalized Alzheimers patients, a misdiangosis in this
>case
>>and often totally reversible.
>
>Are there any sources for this?
Here are some links:
HealthCentral.com - People's Pharmacy - Vitamin Lack Linked To Depression
http://www.healthcentral.com/peoplespharmacy/PharmFullText.cfm?id=45306
HealthCentral.com - News - Many people may be deficient in vitamin B-12
http://www.healthcentral.com/news/newsfulltext.cfm?id=47165&StoryType=Reut
ersNews
Recognizing and Treating Depression in the Elderly
http://www.medscape.com/Medscape/psychiatry/journal/1997/v02.n03/mh16.mill
er/mh16.miller.html (see Metabolic Derangements)
Today's ?? - B12 Deficiency in Patients
http://www.medscape.com/Medscape/features/question/1999/09.99/q668.html
ASCP 99 - Alzheimer's Dementia
http://www.medscape.com/Medscape/CNO/1999/ASCP/ASCP-05.html
Excerpt from above link:
"As referenced in the DSM III Criteria for Dementia, patients with Alzheimer's
disease present with the following: short- and long-term memory impairment,
memory loss that interferes with activities of daily living, no disturbance of
consciousness, and at least 1 of the following: impaired abstract thinking,
impaired judgment, or personality changes. Before the diagnosis can be made,
all other possible causes of memory loss need to be ruled out. This includes
vitamin B12 deficiency, thyroid disorders, and various metabolic syndromes.[1]"
Barry Davis
some Homeopaths understand .......dont even ask the allopaths to get their
head around it
Friends of the Earth did highlight the problem some years ago though
.......I think it was a speech by their leader who was killed a while back
Barry Davis
crown fitted and within weeks i could not wear my wedding rings for
horrendous exzema on my finger ...........tooth broke at base after 7 years
so it had to be removed and hey presto within days i could wear my rings
again
Steven Fawks
Fawks
Renate Ratlos
Andrea) wrote:
>My apologies.
No problem. :-)
I only know about that intrinsic factor as we are in a severe war with some
vegans who tell us to let diabetics die as they are not meant to live.
Evolution weeds them out, you know...
-------------schnipp---------------
> Es gibt das Naturrecht, Ulrich und das solltest auch du
> wisssen.
<Zitat www.bfgev.de/dggk/1/51.html>
»Immerhin: wenn es das Insulin nicht gäbe, müßten sie
sterben!« sagst Du.
Nun, das will die Natur ja, das ist ja ebenfalls Sinn
gefährlicher Krankheiten - soll die Welt in ein paar
hundert Jahren nur aus Zuckerkranken und Insulinfabriken
bestehen? Du weißt wohl auch, daß Diabetes erblich ist.
»Sicher, aber Du würdest wohl genau so wenig an die
nachkommenden Generationen denken wie die Zuckerkranken,
wenn Du vor der Entscheidung stündest, früh ins Gras zu
beißen oder Insulin zu spritzen.«
Da bist Du aber schief gewickelt! Ich würde mein Leben doch
nicht von einem Tier- oder Chemieprodukt abhängig machen!
</Zitat>
<Zitat Eberhard Schütze <a1tos3$i41$06$1...@news.t-online.com>>
Aber dann hat das seinen Sinn: der Mensch hat seine Chance
verwirkt und muß gemäß dem Ausleseprinzip weg.
</Zitat>
-------------schnapp---------------
These [censored] say, that newborn babies must not be washed.
These [censored] say, that you must not wash wild fruits before eating
them.
These [censored] say, that you must not wash wild fruits before eating
them.
THANK YOU!
I will post that in that ng. :-)
RR
--
Das nackte Grauen. Deadly pills.
Renate Ratlos
<Bnd...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Hypersensitivity to toxic metals is something only those who experience or
>some Homeopaths understand .......dont even ask the allopaths to get their
>head around it
Bullshit.
Hompeopathy is insane.
Homeopathy kills children.
Read http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_home.htm
>Friends of the Earth did highlight the problem some years ago though
>.......I think it was a speech by their leader who was killed a while back
He was hit by an atom from outer space?
Renate Ratlos
Nonsense.
The gold inlay or crown is not stuck onto the tooth. It is mounted with
cement. (It is not glue, right?)
Did you try to wear the gold ring on other fingers? Did an ekzema show up
there as well?
The gold ring is not made of PURE gold but is an alloy.
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>Kind of like alien abductions.
Homeopathy is alien abduction.
Jan
>Date: 1/19/02 1:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <a2bf9o$hf1$3...@knossos.btinternet.com>
>
>Hypersensitivity to toxic metals is something only those who experience or
>some Homeopaths understand .......dont even ask the allopaths to get their
>head around it
Jan
it is short for Andrea
>
Probably true, but not necessarily. Chinese people love 24 karat gold and that
is considered the only "real" gold by them. My brother has a Chinese 24 karat
gold wedding ring. True, it is too soft and has deformed and worn over the
years, but go into any Chinatown and check out the gold jewelery and you'll
find I'm right.
My mother also has a Chinese chain I bought in Taiwan of pure 24 karat gold.
CB White
renate...@bigfoot.com wrote on 1/19/02 9:19 AM:
> On 19 Jan 2002 06:43:36 GMT, lady...@aol.comnospam (it is short for
> Andrea) wrote:
>
>> My apologies.
>
> No problem. :-)
>
> I only know about that intrinsic factor as we are in a severe war with some
> vegans who tell us to let diabetics die as they are not meant to live.
Are you *serious*?
Is it that the "vegans" don't want insulin taken from animals to save
humans? I wouldn't call them vegans, if that's the case. There are plenty of
vegans who wouldn't push their political agenda on other people. (I'm pretty
close to vegan myself.) I'd call them animal rights activists.
I have to agree myself that it's a good idea to research non-animal sources
for insulin, but until we have them, I want my 10th grade English teacher to
get what she needs to stay alive!
CB White
ruling out various causes of memory loss, but I wondered if anybody knew
what metabolic disorders might need ruling out before correctly assuming
Alzheimer's.
in article 3c5c7dce...@news1.ewetel.de, Renate Ratlos at
renate...@bigfoot.com wrote on 1/19/02 9:19 AM:
>> ASCP 99 - Alzheimer's Dementia
Renate Ratlos
Andrea) wrote:
>Chinese people love 24 karat gold and that
>is considered the only "real" gold by them. My brother has a Chinese 24 karat
>gold wedding ring. True, it is too soft and has deformed and worn over the
>years, but go into any Chinatown and check out the gold jewelery and you'll
>find I'm right.
Good against arthritis.
Diamonds are not always a girl's best friend.
Renate Ratlos
>> I only know about that intrinsic factor as we are in a severe war with some
>> vegans who tell us to let diabetics die as they are not meant to live.
>
>Are you *serious*?
Yes.
>Is it that the "vegans" don't want insulin taken from animals to save
>humans?
More than that.
<Zitat www.bfgev.de/dggk/1/51.html>
»Immerhin: wenn es das Insulin nicht gäbe, müßten sie
sterben!« sagst Du.
Nun, das will die Natur ja, das ist ja ebenfalls Sinn
gefährlicher Krankheiten - soll die Welt in ein paar
hundert Jahren nur aus Zuckerkranken und Insulinfabriken
bestehen? Du weißt wohl auch, daß Diabetes erblich ist.
»Sicher, aber Du würdest wohl genau so wenig an die
nachkommenden Generationen denken wie die Zuckerkranken,
wenn Du vor der Entscheidung stündest, früh ins Gras zu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
beißen oder Insulin zu spritzen.«
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Da bist Du aber schief gewickelt! Ich würde mein Leben doch
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nicht von einem Tier- oder Chemieprodukt abhängig machen!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
</Zitat>
>I wouldn't call them vegans, if that's the case. There are plenty of
>vegans who wouldn't push their political agenda on other people. (I'm pretty
>close to vegan myself.) I'd call them animal rights activists.
No, they are raw food fanatics of a special sort.
Konz, a guy working for the German IRS wrote books with tricks how to pay
less taxes, and thus got a name.
He later invented his raw food stuff and wrote books about that.
His paid news agents spread his shit in certain news-groups.
>I have to agree myself that it's a good idea to research non-animal sources
>for insulin, but until we have them, I want my 10th grade English teacher to
>get what she needs to stay alive!
Right.
it is short for Andrea
>>find I'm right.
>
>Good against arthritis.
Oh Renate, I expected better of you. :)
it is short for Andrea
>ruling out various causes of memory loss, but I wondered if anybody knew
>what metabolic disorders might need ruling out before correctly assuming
>Alzheimer's.
The following link may help:
Alzheimer's Disease - Risk Factors, Causes, & Symptoms - Neurologychannel
http://www.neurologychannel.com/alzheimers/riskfactors.shtml
There is some very active discussion of Alzheimer's and related disorders on
the Motley Fool's Biotechnology Board if you are interested. neuronnorth is
one of the most prolific posters on the topic, but there are others there as
well.
To get there, go to http://www.fool.com and go to the Discussion Boards. You
may need to register (free) if you haven't already done so. Then go to the
boards listing and find the biotechnology board. Excellent resource.
CB White
in article 20020119234643...@mb-fi.aol.com, it is short for
Andrea at lady...@aol.comnospam wrote on 1/19/02 10:46 PM:
Renate Ratlos
Andrea) wrote:
>>gold jewelery and you'll
>>>find I'm right.
>>
>>Good against arthritis.
>
>Oh Renate, I expected better of you. :)
I think practical.
Each gold ring you wear reduces arthritis near this finger.
That is better than any diamond could do.