Magdalenian (year seven)
Franz Gnaedinger
calendar of Lascaux, looked out for a matching
language, found none in literature, remembered
the approach by Richard Fester - Prof. Dr. Richard
Fester, if you please -, followed him and went far
beyond. Meanwhile I formulated two Magdalenian
test cases, bear as the furry one versus bear
as the brown one, and deus theos / Zeus versus
deus Zeus / theos. Nobody went for my two test
cases, nobody provided better arguments for
the PIE views, ergo I am entitled to go on with
my work. Sir Karl Popper did not only ask for
testable theories but also for daring ones -
the more audacious the better. Here are my
previous Magdalenian publishing threads:
Lascaux, a lunisolar calendar
(early 2005 - early 2006)
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux.htm
what is etymology? (linguistics and biology)
subtitle
Magdalenian words and compounds 2006/7
(January 23, 2006, till October 3, 2008)
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux2.htm
(Magdalenian dictionary)
Magdalenian experiment (continuation)
(October 7, 2008, till perhaps March 2011)
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux3.htm
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux4.htm
and, in preparation
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux5.htm
Franz Gnaedinger
In another thread, Analyst asked whether English
"aye" and "eye" and "i" are homophones? Here
my answer:
Aye, I eye it as you do ;-) The three words
are pronounced pretty much the same way,
and rightly so, for they have a common origin.
Magdalenian OC means the right and AY the
left eye. OC is present in Latin occulus and
Italian occhio. OC alone, or both OC and AY
account for Old English ege and German
Auge, while New English eye is pronounced
like Magdalenian AY. The German exclamation
Ei ei ei gives voice to the surprise at seeing
something out of order, or extraordinary.
A very old way of marking presence was
humming, Homo the humming animal,
a memory of which is kept in French moi,
English me and myself, also in my mine,
French mon ma mes, Italian mio mia miei
mie, and so on. If you allow me a comparison:
moi lives inside the house, while je looks out
of the window ... Je meaning I is rather close
to yeux for eyes, while English I is pronounced
like eye. English eye may be a short form of
German ich that is again close to OC, as is
Latin ego. Now a firm look into each other's
eyes was the Magdalenian way of saying Yes,
right eye left eye, OC AY, a formula that
survived in remote Scotland, where it became
the rather mournful affirmation Och, aye,
and then, with the many Scottish emigrants
and deportees, the formula arrived in America
where it became the famous affirmation okay.
However, it may have arrived in America much
earlier. A brief explanation. The Magdalenian
civilization embraced all of Eurasia, from the
Franco-Cantabrian space in the east to Malta
near Irkutsk on Lake Baikal in Siberia. A genetic
screening revealed that the ancestors of the
Red Indians came from Siberia, and must
have crossed the Bering Strait some 13,000
years ago. They could well have spoken
Magdalenian, and brought the formula OC AY
with them, where it survived for a long time
in at least one language of the Red Indians
or rather Sibero Americans, in Choctaw
okeh 'it is so'. Woodrow Wilson, approving
of a document, wrote "okeh W.W." on the
margin, instead of the customary O.K.
(the anecdote is told in the printed 1989
edition of the Oxford English Dictionary
but omitted from the online OED). The
inverse of OC is CO for an attentive mind,
while the inverse of AY is YA, reminding
of German Ja and American Yeah. In the
Languedoc, Langue d'oc, southern France,
the Parisian oui for yes, rather close to
oeuil for eye, is oc, the same word as
Magdalenian OC for the right eye ...
Looking into each other's eyes, long and
deeply, is still a way of saying Yes among
lovers.
(to be continued)
-
Franz Gnaedinger
Ladies and Gentlemen, the first language of
America was - Magdalenian, spoken by the
Siberians who crossed the Bering Strait some
13,000 years ago. OC AY for the right and
left eye respectively survived in Choctaw okeh
'it is so', while the same formula OC AY, verbal
equivalent of a look into each other's eyes
as Magdalenian way of saying Yes, became
the rather wistful Scottish Och, aye, arrived
for the second time in America with the many
Scottish emigrants and deportees of recent
history, and turned into the famous okay ...
Richard Fester considered several Red Indian
or better Sibero American languages in compiling
his word lists and fields; more or less convincingly,
I must say. Last year my interest was roused by
the word hurricane, from Taino hurikan. Reminds
me of AAR RAA NOS in the form of AAR RAA CA,
mind NOS of the one composed of air AAR and
light RAA in the sky CA, visualized by the big
limestone ring on the Göbekli Tepe, more than
10,000 years old, showing the head of the god
ex negativo, composed of air and light, as it were
http://www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG
AAR RAA NOS became the Greek sky god Ouranos,
the Indian sky god Varuna, and gave his name to
many valleys in western Europe, Val d'Aran, Arundel
(dale of Aran), Val d'Hérens in the Swiss Alps -
a valley being a hollow between hills or mountains,
filled with air and light -, while AAR RAA CA became
Egyptian Horus, Harappan muruku, and Tamil Murukan.
If the Siberians who crossed the Bering Strait some
13,000 years ago had worshipped the same god,
he may have survived in Taino hurikan and become
our hurricane: the god, angry, dims the light and
makes the air whirl - AAR RAA CA Horus muruku
Murukan hurikan .... Will have to consult some of
the Sibero Indian languages, might begin with words
for eye and I and terms of affirmation and exclamations
like Latin (and Swiss) ei and hui, verbal equivalent of
making big eyes
OC AY C AY h ui / ei
Consider also hey - hey, open your eyes, hey, look
at that, and so on; might also be a derivative of OC AY.
(to be continued)
-
Franz Gnaedinger
M A Y A N
ich 'eye, sight'
jaj 'true, yes, surely, affirmative'
aja 'aha'
OC AY OC iC iCh
OC AY C AY j AY jAj
OC AY aC A ajA
C H I K A S A W
ishkein 'eye'
ii 'yes' ahaa 'yes
OC AY iC AY ishC AY ishC ei ishkein
OC AY iC AY i y ii
OC AY aC AY ah AY ahAa
C R E E K
ehe, ehi 'yes'
anka, henka 'yes, okay'
OC AY eC AY ehe / ehi
OC AY eC AY enC A enka / henka
K O Y U K O N A T H A B A S K A N
oho 'yes'
ohee 'yes! definetly, oh really'
OC AY OC o Oho
OC AY OC eY Ohee
C A Y U G A
ogaha 'eye (stem -gah)
ehe 'yes'
OC AY Og AY Og Ah -gAh
OC AY ec AY ehe
T U S C A R U R A
ehe 'yes'
OC AY eC AY ehe
C R E E
aha, eha 'yes'
OC AY aC AY ahA
OC AY eC AY ehA
The many similar forms aha eha ehi ehe oho ohee
ii ahaa alow me to propose a very ancient affirmation
A A that became Magdalenian OC AY via the firm look
into each other's eyes as the Magdalenian way of
saying Yes
A A Ac Ay oc Ay
while OC AY has derivatives in Choctaw okeh 'it is so',
Creek enka 'yes, okay', Scottish Och, aye, and English
American okay, but also relaxed derivatives in the
international affirmation that requires the least effort
in pronouncing, English American uh-huh, and the
above variety aha eha ehi ehe oho ohee ii ahaa
in a couple of Sibero American languages, no longer
depending on the eyes, returning to the very ancient
A A ...
Old English ege 'eye' can easily be derived from
OC AY naming the right and left eye
OC AY Og AY ege
What about Old English gese 'yes', probably from
gea si 'yea, be it' ? I plead for a multiple affirmation,
OC AY the verbal equivalent of a firm look into each
other's eyes; YA, inverse of AY, an affirmation in itself;
and SAI SAI meaning: be it so (while the single SAI
means life, existence)
OC YA, SAI SAI Og eA SI geA SI gese
-
Franz Gnaedinger
ehe 'yes'
C R E E
aha, eha 'yes'
-
> Affirmations (part 2)
Franz Gnaedinger
In another thread, Analyst asked whether
"aye" and "eye" and "I" are homophones?
(to be continued)
-
> In early 2005 I reconstructed the amazing lunisolar
Harlan Messinger
> In early 2005 I reconstructed the amazing lunisolar
> calendar of Lascaux, looked out for a matching
> language, found none in literature, remembered
> the approach by Richard Fester - Prof. Dr. Richard
> Fester, if you please -, followed him and went far
> beyond. Meanwhile I formulated two Magdalenian
> test cases, bear as the furry one versus bear
> as the brown one, and deus theos / Zeus versus
> deus Zeus / theos. Nobody went for my two test
> cases, nobody provided better arguments for
> the PIE views, ergo I am entitled to go on with
> my work.
Which is like Franz walking into a small office at NASA, shouting "The
Moon is made of green cheese" to the ten people there, finding that the
people there don't drop what they're doing instantly to make his
proclamation their highest priority, and believing that an "entitlement"
to go on with his "work" is a conclusion that he can logically draw from
this.
Harlan Messinger
> Affirmations (part 1)
>
> In another thread, Analyst asked whether
> "aye" and "eye" and "I" are homophones?
>
> Aye, I eye it as you do ;-) The three words
> are pronounced pretty much the same way,
> and rightly so, for they have a common origin.
No, they don't. Posting this for the third time doesn't change that.
Harlan Messinger
> Affirmations (part 1)
>
> In another thread, Analyst asked whether English
> "aye" and "eye" and "i" are homophones? Here
> my answer:
>
> Aye, I eye it as you do ;-) The three words
> are pronounced pretty much the same way,
> and rightly so, for they have a common origin.
Or the fourth time.
Harlan Messinger
> Affirmations (part 2)
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen, the first language of
> America was - Magdalenian,
No, it wasn't.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> In early 2005 I reconstructed the amazing lunisolar
> calendar of Lascaux, looked out for a matching
> language, found none in literature, remembered
> the approach by Richard Fester - Prof. Dr. Richard
> Fester, if you please -, followed him and went far
> beyond. Meanwhile I formulated two Magdalenian
> test cases, bear as the furry one versus bear
> as the brown one, and deus theos / Zeus versus
> deus Zeus / theos. Nobody went for my two test
> cases, nobody provided better arguments for
> the PIE views, ergo I am entitled to go on with
> my work. Sir Karl Popper did not only ask for
> testable theories but also for daring ones -
You didn't answer my point that although Popper did like daring
theories he liked falsifiable ones a lot more. Constantly burbling on
about bear as the furry one doesn't explain how your "test" might be
falsified.
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> Affirmations (part 1)
>
> In another thread, Analyst asked whether
> "aye" and "eye" and "I" are homophones?
>
> Aye, I eye it as you do ;-) The three words
> are pronounced pretty much the same way,
> and rightly so, for they have a common origin.
> Magdalenian OC means the right and AY the
> left eye.
You said all this in your previous thread, and saying it again here
doesn't make it any more convincing.
If it is "right" that these should be homophones in English, how do you
explain that in French "oui", "oeil" and "je" sound quite different?
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> Affirmations (part 2)
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen, the first language of
> America was - Magdalenian, spoken by the
> Siberians who crossed the Bering Strait some
> 13,000 years ago.
Evidence?
--
athel
António Marques
The magdalenian building collpased when Franz couldn't come up with any
rules for how the verbal morphospace works.
yangg
wrote:
> On 2011-02-24 08:11:51 +0100, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> said:
>
> > Affirmations (part 1)
>
> > In another thread, Analyst asked whether
> > "aye" and "eye" and "I" are homophones?
>
> If it is "right" that these should be homophones in English, how do you
> explain that in French "oui", "oeil" and "je" sound quite different?
***
Some Magdalenians were leftpondians, some others rightpondians.
Explains quite a lot.
And some others did not eat green cheese and never went to the Moon.
A.
Franz Gnaedinger
agriculture (1/3)
The Divine Hind or Hind Woman CER -: I -:
or CER LIL called animals and plants into life
and existence (pronounce the lip lick -: by
touching both lips with the tip of the tongue).
Her main sanctuary was the Altamira cave in
northern Spain, wherein a large and beautiful
painted hind is lovingly licking the horns of
a small bison under her
http://www.seshat.ch/home/hind1.JPG
She licked moon bulls into life, thus creating
time, lunations or synodic months, periods of
30 29 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 ... days.
CER -: I -: became Greek Hera, cow-eyed Hera,
also North-West Proto-Indo-European *kerdeh-
'herd, series', -: I -: alone Celtic loba, a call of
herdsmen to their cattle, surviving in the locally
famous lyoba call of herdsmen in the Swiss
Canton of Fribourg. Further derivatives are
German Leben English life, German Liebe
English love, Latin libido 'desire', English lip
German Lippe French lèvre (licking the lips
may once have been a sign of love and desire,
can still indicate appetite and lust), Ugaritic dd
'beloved' and Phoenician Dido 'loved one',
Ukrainian lyalka 'doll', the female given name
Lily and flower lily, German Laub 'foliage' and
English leaves, German Laube 'arbor, bower'
and English lobby, reminding of arbors and
bowers built in honor of the goddess in her
vegetable aspect. Magdalenian CER is present
in Zürgelbaum 'hackberry or nettle tree or Lote
tree, genus Celtis', venerable tree of the Stone
Age, the small cherry-like fruits edible (Homer's
Lotophagoi), yielding a wine and serving medical
purposes. We find CER in French cerise German
Kirsche English cherry, then in Pashto zarai
English kernel German Kern. Also in Lithuanian
zirnis 'pea'. Then of course in the name of Ceres,
Roman goddess of agriculture, alter ego of
Demeter, Greek goddess of cereals; in Latin
ceres 'bread, grain', in English cereal and corn
and grain and harvest, in Hittite karas 'wheat',
in German Gerste Greek kri and krithae 'barley',
and in PIE *keres German Hirse Indic (Kalasha)
karasha Minoan sa-ru or sha-ru (Linear A tablet
Hagia Triada 95), Ugaritic Hebrew Arabic sharru,
all 'millet'. CER -: I -: as divine Hind Woman
had an alter ego in the fur giver BIR GID, both
worshiped in the winter constellation of Orion
(also the heavenly abode of the bee goddess
in union with Demeter Elaia). BIR accounts for
Greek byrsa 'skin, fur, leather'. The small cherry-
like fruits of the Zürgelbaum or hackberry or
nettle tree are called ber in India, telling me
that they had been harvested in fur bags and
leather poaches, and the wine kept in goat skins.
Also berries and herbs would have been gathered
in fur bags and leather poaches. Barley dito, and
trashed in soft hides, then exposed to the wind
by openeing and rhytmically pulling the hide so
that the spelts were blown away while the grains
fell back. BIR GID belonged to the female triade
of the fire giver PIR GID and fur giver BIR GID
and fertility giver BRI GID. In the Göbekli Tepe
myth of origin PIR GID had the say ) or L or
)OG or LOG, wherefrom Hebrew EL and Elohim
'Lord', Greek logos, and Arabic Allah (pronounce
the clacking L given as a small arc by curving
the tongue, letting it slide along the roof of the
mouth and smack into its wet bed). Agriculture
was invented in the region of the Göbekli Tepe,
over 10,000 years ago (the oldest cultivated
einkorn had been found at the base of the
Karacadag some seventy kilometers northeast
of the Göbekli Tepe). If Greek pyros 'wheat' has
to do with Magdalenian PIR meaning fire it could
once have name roasted wheat as a delicatessen.
Greek bro:mos and bro:tys and to bro:ton (with
omega, to an article) mean food, while brotos
(with omikron, perhaps originally also an omega)
means oat, oats. A wild grass is called Brumos
Rubens, red brume. Bro:mos and bromos might
come from BRI MmOS, fertile BRI offspring
MmOS, telling us that our nourishment, whether
animal or vegetable, had been called into existence
by the goddess. Bro:tos and to bro:ton remind of
German Brot English bread, epitome of food,
as in the Lord's Prayer: give us our daily bread ...
yangg
[...]
> a large and beautiful
> painted hind is lovingly licking the horns of
> a small bison under her
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/hind1.JPG
> She licked moon bulls into life,
***
This theory is getting utterly obscene, now,
sheer pornography.
A.
Franz Gnaedinger
Merrit Ruhlen reconstructed a very ancient
*KAPA with a wide range of meanings including
seize, hand, finger, bite, and traced it in fifty-four
languages. Magdalenian CAP means to hunt
horses, narrowing *KAPA, yet the word widened
again in Latin carpere 'pluck', CAP CArP CArPere.
An interesting compound is CAP PAS, accounting
for *h1ewis 'oat' and Greek kaepos 'garden',
CAP in the Neolithic sense of to gather, harvest,
pluck, and PAS meaning everywhere (in a plain),
here, south and north of me, east and west of me
- all in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every'
and pente penta- 'five'. Old Prussian wyse 'oat'
may well derive from PAS and explain German
Wiese 'meadow' from the same PAS, while the
sound shift of Greek pas pan may inform us
that Latin panis Italian pane named and name
bread baked from grains of wild grasses
gathered everywhere PAS in meadows, and
from grains of cultivated cereals harvested in
fields. CAP PAS *h1ewis 'oat' could have named
any cereal, but names the favorite cereal of the
horse - a mere coincidence? or keeping a memory
of sowing wild oats on suitable meadows in order
to attract and trap and capture wild horses, long
before oats were eaten by humans? (horses
were domesticated by the middle of the fourth
millennium BC, oats taken up in the human diet
not before the second millennium BC). The
Magdalenian name of the horse was PAC,
while the domesticated horse was named by
a compound, AC PAS, an expanse of land with
water AC everywhere PAS - riding on the back
of this animal you can get everywhere PAS
on earth AC ... AC PAS accounts for PIE
*h1ekwos Greek hippos Latin equus, and for
the name of the Gallo-Roman horse goddess
Epona, an alter ego of REO Rhea Rheia who
succeeded the triple goddess PIR GID and
BIR GID and BRI GID, the fur giver BIR GID
being an alter ego of the Hind Woman and
Divine Hind CER -: I -: or CER LIL who called
animals and plants into life and existence.
(to be continued)
-
Franz Gnaedinger
Agriculture and a sedentary life asked for a new
range of words, a demand which was answered
by the forming of many more compounds thar
required poetical imagination and may well be
the achievements of early bards - long forgotten
bards whose contributions live on in words we
use every day ... Here are four of them, English
head, German Kopf, English folk and people.
CAP
to hunt and capture horses
to count a herd by the number of heads
head
KOD
tent, hut
any casing
head as 'casing' of the mind
head
CAP KOD - each word widened in a chain of
associations, then equated in a compound -
became Latin caput Old English heafod Middle
English he(v)ed New English head German Haupt,
while the similar compound CAP POL, replacing
the casing KOD by the fortified settlement POL,
became Greek kephalae Old English hafola
German Kopf. English capital German Hauptstadt
compare a large and important settlement to
the head, consider also German Kopfbahnhof
'terminal', and Wasserkopf 'hydrocephalus' for
too large a settlement. Homer's Polyphem, the
'much famous' one-eyed giant who resembled
more a wooded hill than a man who eats bread,
symbolizes Troy, his one eye the well guarded
acropolis, his head the high walls around the
acropolis, and his body downtown Troy VIIa
that provided protected shelter for 5,000 to
10,000 people. Another similar compound,
POL DOK, fortified settlement POL pole beam
rafter DOk, named the woodhenges of Middle
Europe some 7,000 years ago, and then the
people who assembled there, holding their
meetings, and finally people in general,
German Volk English folk, while POL PLO,
fortified settlement POL wattle-and-daub PLO,
named walls and houses and villages built in
the wattle-and-daub technique, then the people
living in such houses and villages, then people
in general, Old Latin poplo Latin populus Italian
popolo French peuple English people ... The
same POL PLO explains the curious parallel
populus 'people' and po:pulus (long o) 'poplar
tree' - the straight shoots and twigs of the
quickly growing Populus niger provided
excellent upshoots for wattle-and-daub walls.
anal...@hotmail.com
come on now, we are all grown-ups here.
Franz's work is of varying quality - but his theory of the importance
of bears in prehistoric Europe (protecting newborns with bearskins)
seems very productive - there seem to be several dozen words from the
constellation of "bears-fur-birth-son/child"
Harlan Messinger
> Transition from hunting and gathering to
> agriculture (1/3)
>
> The Divine Hind or Hind Woman CER -: I -:
> or CER LIL called animals and plants into life
> and existence (pronounce the lip lick -: by
> touching both lips with the tip of the tongue).
> Her main sanctuary was the Altamira cave in
> northern Spain, wherein a large and beautiful
> painted hind is lovingly licking the horns of
> a small bison under her
Except for the possibility that there may be a painting of a hind
licking a bison, is there any part of this that you didn't make up?
Peter T. Daniels
You failed to repeat this in the _third_ place he vomited this
sequence forth.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Maybe you should write an open letter to the Google Company. I'm sure
they'll take them as seriously as they have taken all of Franz's open
letters.
--
athel
Franz Gnaedinger
CER -: I -: or CER LIL was the Divine Hind or
Hind Woman, her heavenly abode the winter
constellation of Orion, her tree perhaps the birch,
from BIR CA, the first word BIR meaning fur but
also rind and bark - the one of the birch tree most
important in the Stone Age -, CA meaning sky,
naming the roof of branches and leaves that fill out
the sky if you stand under a tree. Her husband was
the Divine Stag CER KOS whose proud antlers
were seen in the summer constellations of
Sagittarius and Scorpio and whose tree was
the oak, Latin quercus from CER KOS, the
second word KOS meaning the heavenly vault,
in analogy to CA of BIR CA. The Divine Stag and
Divine Hind were the patrons of shamans and
shamanesses. CER is present in the names of
many cereals, in English harvest, also in Latin herba
English herb which may derive from the compound
CER BIR naming the fur bag or leather poach of
a shamaness gathering herbs for medical purposes
(astonishingly there is no PIE root of herba given
in Mallory and Adams 2006). One method of healing
a severe fever in Magdalenian times would have
been to anoint a patient with fat and oil and herbs
and wrap him or her in warming bear furs, which
would account for *bher- 'cure', Latin curare English
cure being another potential derivative of CER or of
a lateral association to CER.
The Magdalenian vocabulary mined with my four laws
(inverse forms have related meanings, permutations
yield words around the same meme, S-words are
comparative forms of D-words, important words can
have lateral associations) - the Magdalenian vocabulary
is relatively small, while the beauty and power of
Magdalenian is in the compounds. Their forming
required poetical imagination, and their reconstruction
demands again imagination, ample knowledge and
a good measure of inspiration, which is why Magdalenian
interpretations can't be carried out in a mechanical way
or even by a machine, except perhaps assisted in the
future by genuine artificial neural networks, a new branch
of computing that we may count with in the next decade
I dare foresay.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> Transition from hunting and gathering to
> agriculture (1/3)
I'm probably going to regret this, as experience shows that time spent
in trying to engage Franz in rational discussion is time wasted (he
doesn't seem to have realized yet that the purpose of a discussion
group is to discuss things, not to pursue an interminable monologue
that ignores anything anyone else says), but I'm going to try anyway.
What is this "transition" you speak of? Are you under the impression
that the hunter-gatherers of the world saw their invaders farming, and
thought "that's a good idea, why don't we do it as well?" That is
certainly not what has happened in historical times, when
hunter-gatherers have in most cases been squeezed into smaller and
smaller and more impoverished territory, but remain, for the most part,
hunter-gatherers. Moreover, abundant archaeological evidence makes it
clear that that is what happened in earlier times as well. Agriculture
started in the east Mediterranean region about 10000 years ago. The
first farmers may perhaps have undergone a "transition" from whatever
they were doing before, but they constituted a very small population
and can hardly be taken as typical of the whole human population of
their time. Subsequently it took agriculture about 3000-4000 years to
reach western Europe, spreading gradually at the rate of about 1 km/yr
-- not what you'd call spreading like wildfire, more what you'd expect
if the growing farming population was slowly expanding and squeezing
out the original inhabitants, confining their languages to small
remnants of their original territory.
--
athel
Franz Gnaedinger
Let me begin with my definition of language
from 1974/75: Language is the means of
getting help, support and understanding from
those we depend upon in one way or another,
and every means of getting help, support
and understanding may be called language,
on whatever level of life it occurs ... In my
opinion, language is a basic feature of life
and may even be regarded as the intelligence
of life (using language you can achieve more,
and with less energy). Human language evolved
out of animal language, and still is embedded
in body language, mimics and gestures. What
is special about human language? the use of
words that mirror the use of artificial things
we produce ourselves. For millions of years
hominids used an universal tool, the hand axe;
also, we may infer, a limited range of words.
Then Homo sapiens sapiens of the Middle
Stone Age in South Africa, Pinnacle Point
and Blombos cave, developed new tools and
techniques, which must have led to a widening
of language, and this happened again with
the Magdalenians in the last Ice Age of Eurasia.
The process of inventing new things gathered
speed all the time, and made language develop
ever quicker, nowadays Intelligence Technology
alone created 20,000 new English words and
terms ... Words name things, and treat living
and natural entities as if they were things.
A powerful approach to the understanding
and manipulation of ever wider rings of the
surrounding world, yet, in philosophical terms,
limited in principle. I say my home, my room,
my books, my table, my bed, my clothes,
my body, my amrs and legs, my head, my mind,
my ideas, my feelings, my soul, my innermost
- but who am I to whom belongs my innermost
self? We can't cage our life in a word, nor can
we do that with all of the world - the world we
can name and define is never all of the world.
-
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> things and words
>
> Let me begin with my definition of language
> from 1974/75:
Yet again, for about the 317th time.
--
athel
Harlan Messinger
> things and words
>
> Let me begin with my definition of language
> from 1974/75:
"Begin"? Even this thread is already three days old, this message three
levels deep, and you've repeated this "definition" how many times now
over the years? Is there someone out there in Switzerland who keeps
pressing your Reset button?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> things and words
>
> Let me begin with my definition of language
> from 1974/75: Language is the means of
> getting help, support and understanding from
> those we depend upon in one way or another,
> and every means of getting help, support
> and understanding may be called language,
> on whatever level of life it occurs ... In my
> opinion, language is a basic feature of life
> and may even be regarded as the intelligence
> of life (using language you can achieve more,
> and with less energy).
There are (at least) two problems with your definition:
1. "Language" already had a well understood meaning well before 1974.
If you are going to take a well understood word and pretend it means
something else then you are not going to be understood. You are not, in
fact using what you are calling language. If you are really seeking to
get help, support and understanding you are manifestly failing.
2. Your definition is absurdly broad. Despite their rather unappealing
name, slime moulds are very interesting single-celled organisms that
clump together into what are called slugs (not the same as the slugs
that we all love to see eating up our lettuces) when food is short,
because these slugs are more capable of moving to places where life
might be better than the individual cells are. In order to tell other
cells where they are the individual cells release cyclic AMP, which
diffuses away as a wave, and causes the other cells to move towards the
source of the cyclic AMP. According to your definition slime moulds are
using language (indeed, there is increasing evidence that many bacteria
can do similar things), but anyone who seriously proposed that this was
language in the sense of linguistics would be laughed at. Have you ever
wondered why your posts here tend to be ridiculed?
> --
athel
pauljk
news:8sumv2...@mid.individual.net...
Oh, I remember 1974/75 quite well.
I was on a two year secondment to the UK from NZ and in winter
times several times went to ski in France and Switzerland.
I remember 1974 as one of the most awful wine vintage years
of the decade. Yeah, that was 1974, a bad year for French wine
and Swiss language definitions.
pjk
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
prepositions with the verb "tá". Tá, also called the substantive verb,
usually denotes how someone or something is, or where:
Tá mé san Fhionlainn anois. I am in Finland now.
Bhí mé in Éirinn nuair a fuair Cathal Goulding bás. I was in Ireland
when Cathal Goulding died.
Beidh Franz breá sásta má chreideann oiread is aon duine amháin ina
chuid teoiricí. Franz will be very happy if as much as one person
believes in his theories.
Tá scríbhinní Franz ar fud an ghrúpa comhrá seo. Franz's writings are
all around this discussion group.
Tá an grúpa comhrá seo breac le scríbhinní Franz. This discussion
group is speckled with Franz's writings.
With ag, we can denote ownership:
An bhfuil gluaisteán agat? Tá. Do you have an automobile? Yes.
Tá teach deas compordach aige sa Ghaeltacht. He has a nice comfortable
house in the Gaeltacht.
Tá a lán teoiricí aiféiseacha ag Franz. Franz has a lot of stupid
theories.
Ní raibh ach deich bpingine airgid aige nuair a tháinig sé go dtí na
Stáit Aontaithe. He had only ("he didn't have but") ten pence of money
when he came to the United States.
Languages are "had" in Irish too:
Tá Araibis mhaith ag Peadar. Peter has good Arabic (i.e. has learnt
the Arabic language well).
Ní raibh mórán teangacha ag Franz riamh. Franz has never had many
languages (i.e. has never been particularly proficient in languages).
The idiomatic way to know things in Irish is to "have their
knowledge".
Níl a fhios agam. I don't know. ("Its knowledge is not at me.")
Tá a fhios agam an rud a rinne tú an samhradh seo caite. I know what
you did last summer.
And ag denotes attitudes:
Tá grá mór ag Annraoi dá bhean. Henry has great love for his wife.
Bhí fuath ag Adolf Hitler do na Giúdaigh agus na Seicigh. Adolf Hitler
hated Jews and Czechs.
Ní raibh riamh ach dímheas ag aon duine ar theoiricí Franz. Nobody
ever had anything but disdain for Franz's theories.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
>
> Tá grá mór ag Annraoi dá bhean. Henry has great love for his wife.
> Bhí fuath ag Adolf Hitler do na Giúdaigh agus na Seicigh. Adolf Hitler
> hated Jews and Czechs.
> Ní raibh riamh ach dímheas ag aon duine ar theoiricí Franz. Nobody
> ever had anything but disdain for Franz's theories.
Note that it is a question of idiom whether the object of the attitude
is pointed out with do ("to") or ar ("upon").
Franz Gnaedinger
but no, so here is his portrait
My first longtime online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau
alias grapheus (alias Rosemary) followed me around
from 2001 till June 2005 (when I left his expensive
lawyer no other option than to silence him). But my
peace didn't last long. In the early spring of 2006
I was attacked out of the blue by what became my
second longtime online stalker: Panu Petteri Höglund
alias John Bulkington alias Patrick Karl alias craoibhin66
alias he himself as his own good friend and pupil Sean
Connor soconn1 alias he himself as his own brother in
arms and stalking aide John Hobart Kyle jhobartkyle johnk
alias he himself as his own bride Annina Kaartinen alias
a Rumanian professor who claims to have discovered
the origin of language alias he himself as his own bride
Maria Kupari alias esperanto doctoro alias John Karl
alias Scott Turner (who claimed to be my first stalker
posting from the beyond) alias some metastases of the
craoibhin alias, videlicet Pantokrator 'ruler of everything',
Zurga Elphastor, Callous Killer, Der psychopathische
Entdärmer 'the psychopathic eviscerator', and some
Irish names, most often Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta.
Here is what he wrote as Panu in my thread "Google
company: sci.lang is flooded with porn and other ads"
on July 10, 2010, 7:39 and 7:44 a.m.:
I have lots of ideas what I could do if I had you
and a good long sharp knife. However, because
of unjust laws I can't put my ideas into practice.
And when I say "unjust laws" I mean the very deplorable
fact that legally, Franz is still a human being with rights,
and I can't slaughter him without being condemned as
a murderer. But I hate him so much that I find it very
difficult to see him as a fellow human being.
My first stalker punished me for not supporting his
'decipherment' of the Phaistos Disc. He had chosen
me for his prophet, impressed and attracted by my
free mind, I politely declined (via e-mail), and this
was nearly my ruin, I had to fight long and hard
to get rid of him. My second stalker punishes me
for his barren mind. He attended three universities,
apparently to no avail. Using several accounts
he led a massive killrating campaign against me,
confessing that he is my one and only killrater.
He suffers from the illusion that he can become
a scientist and make himself a name by driving me
out of sci.lang. When you stand on top of a mountain
you are five or six feet taller than the mountain.
If he could gain victory over me he would place his
mind on top of mine, above my intuition and analytical
abilities and wealth in ideas and productivity and
courage and freedom and indipendence ... I told my
first stalker that his fate does not depend on me
but entirely on the quality of his work; either his
decipherment holds or not. I have nothing to do
with it, but if he forces me into a duel with him
I say what I think about his alleged decipherment
of the Phaistos Disc. And to my second stalker
I said time and again that he can't increase himself
by belittling me, he is only waisting his time, he should
do something that will make him proud once he reaches
my age. My first stalker didn't listen, nor does my
second stalker. Experts on stalking say one should
ignore a narcissistic stalker while fighting hard an
aggressive stalker. What is one supposed to do
about both narcissistic and aggressive stalkers?
Mine were and are of that sort, investing their time
in smear and killrating and defaming campaigns.
Follows a paragraph for those who want to make
better use of their time.
In November and December 2010 I wrote a series
of messages on the dingir calendar of Mesopotamia
and the revised Lascaux calendar and the numerals
one till ten and time. There is technical time we need
in coordinating our clocks, and there is the time we
experience, time that partly rules our life and is partly
given to us in order that we make the best of it ...
I derive this double aspect of time from the Magdalenian
etymology of tempus temps time, namely TYR PAS,
overcomer everywhere, TYR meaning overcomer,
as verb to overcome in the double sense of rule and
give, and PAS meaning everywhere (in a plain), here,
south and north of me, east and west of me, denoting
weather and time that overcome everybody everywhere
TYR PAS Tim PAS Tem PuS TemPS
French temps means both weather and time. The
weather rules the life of a farmer, but is also a gift,
rain and sunshine making the plants grow and blossom
and bear fruit. Also time rules our life, and is given to us
in order that we make the best of it, make it bear fruit,
now in a metaphorical sense.
-
Trond Engen
> come on now, we are all grown-ups here.
>
> Franz's work is of varying quality
Two wrongs don't make a right.
--
Trond Engen
Athel Cornish-Bowden
<craoi...@gmail.com> said:
> [ ... ]
> With ag, we can denote ownership:
>
> An bhfuil gluaisteán agat? Tá. Do you have an automobile? Yes.
> Tá teach deas compordach aige sa Ghaeltacht. He has a nice comfortable
> house in the Gaeltacht.
> Tá a lán teoiricí aiféiseacha ag Franz. Franz has a lot of stupid
> theories.
> Ní raibh ach deich bpingine airgid aige nuair a tháinig sé go dtí n
> a
> Stáit Aontaithe. He had only ("he didn't have but") ten pence of money
> when he came to the United States.
How would you say "Franz thinks he owns his 'publication thread' about
his Magdalenian fanatasies"?
>
> Languages are "had" in Irish too:
>
> Tá Araibis mhaith ag Peadar. Peter has good Arabic (i.e. has learnt
> the Arabic language well).
> Ní raibh mórán teangacha ag Franz riamh. Franz has never had many
> languages (i.e. has never been particularly proficient in languages).
>
> The idiomatic way to know things in Irish is to "have their
> knowledge".
>
> Níl a fhios agam. I don't know. ("Its knowledge is not at me.")
> Tá a fhios agam an rud a rinne tú an samhradh seo caite. I know what
> you did last summer.
>
>
> And ag denotes attitudes:
>
> Tá grá mór ag Annraoi dá bhean. Henry has great love for his wife.
> Bhí fuath ag Adolf Hitler do na Giúdaigh agus na Seicigh. Adolf Hitler
> hated Jews and Czechs.
> Ní raibh riamh ach dímheas ag aon duine ar theoiricí Franz. Nobody
> ever had anything but disdain for Franz's theories.
--
athel
Franz Gnaedinger
My previous Magdalenian publishing thread could
have served me for one more year, alas, it was
invaded, bloated and ruined by a bunch of members
of sci.lang, spearheaded by my second longtime
online stalker, and now they are decided to crash
also my new Magdalenian publishing thread, filling
it with megatons of trash. If my work is being
disrupted, and if I can't keep my thread lean, I turn
it into a documentation and study case of mobbing
in the scientific groups, making their behaving fall
back on them in the long run - not being a victim
of mobbing myself, my work is above their capacity,
but making mobbing visible so that real victims of
online mobbing will find relief and support of one
kind or another.
I guess the problem is narcissism.
Everybody who learned a couple of words in
a second language can call himself a linguist,
join sci.lang and bask in the glory of a scientific
reputation. I spoil their fun, showing them that
they are merely chatting, unable or refuting my
reconstructions, dropping verdicts from above,
and spouting ad hominems when they should
provide arguments. A telltale sign and hallmark
of the half-scientific mind is the illusion that
every past was but an imperfect version of
the present, while our time will be the paradigm
of all future. I reveal another past, valid and
venerable in its own right, even bearing promise
of new developments (for example the role
women played in the invention of agriculture
may give an impulse to the Arabic world that
is rising up just now and taking fate in their
own hands - don't go on marginalizing women),
while imminent changes (for example in linguistics
and computing) may soon turn some of our
cherished views and firm opinions quaint and
obsolete. Also I told them agents of entropy
from the Anti-Intelligence Bureau of sci.lang
who bloated my previous Magdalenian publishing
thread with about 250 nothings from their bloated
egos that I won't discuss with them anymore,
and won't answer their questions any longer.
For all my life I was an anti-elitist, but now
(courtesy AOE from the AIB of sci.lang)
I recognize the advantage of the other option.
From now on I write in such a way that only
worthy readers get aware of the silver lining.
-
Harlan Messinger
> agents of entropy
>
> My previous Magdalenian publishing thread could
> have served me for one more year, alas, it was
> invaded, bloated and ruined by a bunch of members
> of sci.lang, spearheaded by my second longtime
> online stalker, and now they are decided to crash
> also my new Magdalenian publishing thread, filling
> it with megatons of trash. If my work is being
> disrupted, and if I can't keep my thread lean, I turn
> it into a documentation and study case of mobbing
> in the scientific groups, making their behaving fall
> back on them in the long run - not being a victim
> of mobbing myself, my work is above their capacity,
> but making mobbing visible so that real victims of
> online mobbing will find relief and support of one
> kind or another.
>
> I guess the problem is narcissism.
The narcissist is you. The one, for example, is so certain the world is
enthralled with his personal travails that he repeats them OVER AND OVER
again.
> Everybody who learned a couple of words in
> a second language can call himself a linguist,
Anyone can hum and make up stories about cave paintings and artifacts
and superimpose pictorial elements from cave paintings on networks of
rivers that don't like anything like them and claim there's a
resemblance when there isn't, and call himself a serious researcher.
> join sci.lang and bask in the glory of a scientific
> reputation. I spoil their fun, showing them that
> they are merely chatting, unable or refuting my
> reconstructions, dropping verdicts from above,
> and spouting ad hominems when they should
> provide arguments.
You relabel all arguments presented to you as "verdicts from above" and
whine that they are "meta" (which doesn't alter their validity as
arguments) so what is one to do when you refuse to recognize arguments
for what they are?
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
> On 2011-02-28 08:06:46 +0100, F na Gaelach na nGleannta> > An bhfuil gluaiste n agat? T . Do you have an automobile? Yes.
> > T teach deas compordach aige sa Ghaeltacht. He has a nice comfortable
> > house in the Gaeltacht.
> > T a l n teoiric aif iseacha ag Franz. Franz has a lot of stupid
> > theories.
> > N raibh ach deich bpingine airgid aige nuair a th inig s go dt n
> > a
> > St it Aontaithe. He had only ("he didn't have but") ten pence of money
> > when he came to the United States.
>
> How would you say "Franz thinks he owns his 'publication thread' about
> his Magdalenian fanatasies"?
>
Is dóigh le Franz gur leisean a "théad foilsiúcháin" faoina chuid
aislingí Maigdiléanacha.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
<craoi...@gmail.com> said:
Hmm. That looks a bit difficult to memorize!
--
athel
Dušan Vukotić
wrote:
> On 2011-02-28 19:35:45 +0100, F na Gaelach na nGleannta
> <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>
>
>
> > On 28 Feb, 12:27, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ifr88.cnrs-mrs.fr>
> > wrote:
> >> On 2011-02-28 08:06:46 +0100, F na Gaelach na nGleannta
> >> <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>
> >>> [ ... ]
> >>> With ag, we can denote ownership:
>
> >>> An bhfuil gluaiste n agat? T . Do you have an automobile? Yes.
> >>> T teach deas compordach aige sa Ghaeltacht. He has a nice comfortable
> >>> house in the Gaeltacht.
> >>> T a l n teoiric aif iseacha ag Franz. Franz has a lot of stupid
> >>> theories.
> >>> N raibh ach deich bpingine airgid aige nuair a th inig s go dt n
> >>> a
> >>> St it Aontaithe. He had only ("he didn't have but") ten pence of money
> >>> when he came to the United States.
>
> >> How would you say "Franz thinks he owns his 'publication thread' about
> >> his Magdalenian fanatasies"?
>
> >> athel
>
> > aisling Maigdil anacha.
>
> Hmm. That looks a bit difficult to memorize!
>
> --
> athel
Is that you Hog Loony?
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
> On 2011-02-28 19:35:45 +0100, F na Gaelach na nGleannta
> <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 28 Feb, 12:27, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ifr88.cnrs-mrs.fr>
> > wrote:
> >> On 2011-02-28 08:06:46 +0100, F na Gaelach na nGleannta
> >> <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>
> >>> [ ... ]
> >>> With ag, we can denote ownership:
>
> >>> An bhfuil gluaiste n agat? T . Do you have an automobile? Yes.
> >>> T teach deas compordach aige sa Ghaeltacht. He has a nice comfortable
> >>> house in the Gaeltacht.
> >>> T a l n teoiric aif iseacha ag Franz. Franz has a lot of stupid
> >>> theories.
> >>> N raibh ach deich bpingine airgid aige nuair a th inig s go dt n
> >>> a
> >>> St it Aontaithe. He had only ("he didn't have but") ten pence of money
> >>> when he came to the United States.
>
> >> How would you say "Franz thinks he owns his 'publication thread' about
> >> his Magdalenian fanatasies"?
>
> >> athel
>
> > aisling Maigdil anacha.
>
Is dóigh le Franz = is opinion with Franz
gur leisean = that-is with-him (note the emphatic form leisean 'with
HIM' instead of leis 'with him')
a théad foilsiúcháin = his thread of-publishing
faoina chuid aislingí Maigdiléanacha = about-his share [of] visions
Magdalenian.
If you cannot see the acute accents, here is the version with slashes
instead:
Is do/igh le Franz gur leisean a the/ad foilsiu/cha/in faoina chuid
aislingi/ Maigdile/anacha.
Franz Gnaedinger
Archaeology is not an exact science, but a speculative
one, a science of imagination (Cael de Guichen). Note
well: a science of imagination, requiring ample knowledge
in many fields and various disciplines, a both intuitive and
analytic mind, and the 'exact sensual phantasy' ascribed
to the artist by Goethe. Imagination is more important
than knowledge, for knowledge covers only what we know,
whereas imagination embraces the whole universe (Albert
Einstein). Reality surpasses all fiction. The world is much
more complex than we will ever understand, and at the
same time much simpler than we will ever comprehend
(Goethe). Getting a glimpse of the world as it really is,
or just getting a little closer to reality than the cozy but
lazy and often prejudiced common sense requires a vivid
and audacious imagination that can easily baffle. Quantum
theory is weird - and if you don't find it weird you don't
understand it, as the famous saying goes -, yet produces
phantastic results, incredibly precise predictions about
the outcome of experiments. Albert Einstein's relativity
theory gave rise to a Berlin society against Jewish
nonsense in the sciences, while those who understand
Einstein praise his work for elegance and beauty,
so it can matter who looks at a theory and judges it.
Results are what count in the sciences. My results are
reconstructions and far reaching interpretations. I see
my Magdalenian approach to the language of Eurasia
in the last Ice Age as one more non-invasive method
in archaeology, and the 'storm in the water glass' it
causes in sci.lang is a honor considering the above
company. Proto-Indo-European *h1ekwos meaning
horse is just a word meaning horse, end of the line,
the reconstruction allows no further investigation,
the assemblage of letters and diacritic signs remains
opaque, while Magdalenian AC PAS combines two
much older words, AC meaning an expanse of land
with water (consider the many village names ending
on -ac in the Guyenne) and PAS meaning everywhere
in a plain, here, south and north of me, east and west
of me (all in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all every'
pente penta- 'five'), together indicating the value of the
horse for the Indo-Europeans living in the Lowland of
Turan (first IE homeland), in the Uralic Steppes (second
IE homeland) and Pontic Steppes (third IE homeland):
riding on this animal you can get everywhere PAS
on earth AC ... The Late Magdalenian AC PAS would
account for Greek hippos and Latin equus, also for
the name of the Gallo-Roman horse goddess Epona.
One may say that Magdalenian replaces the frosted
glass of PIE with panes of clear glass, allowing us
to look far back in time. There are many more such
telling compounds, gems of early poetic imagination,
examples of poetic power and imaginative muscle,
carrying us back to the Neolithic, Mesolithic, Azilian,
Magdalenian, Gravettian and even Aurignacian.
-
Harlan Messinger
> imagination
>
> Proto-Indo-European *h1ekwos meaning
> horse is just a word meaning horse, end of the line,
> the reconstruction allows no further investigation,
> the assemblage of letters and diacritic signs remains
> opaque, while Magdalenian AC PAS combines two
> much older words,
In other words, we don't know where *h1ekwos comes from, but if you make
stuff up, you can pretend that *you* know. (Again, I draw your attention
to the fact that you piously put the * in front of the PIE words,
indicating that the word isn't attested, but then you never stick it in
front of your invented "Magdalenian" words, as though you're pretending
those words have actually been observed.)
yangg
Actually double asterisk ** for impossible would be better.
A.
yangg
wrote:
>
> > >> How would you say "Franz thinks he owns his 'publication thread' about
> > >> his Magdalenian fanatasies"?
>
> > >> athel
>
> > > Is d igh le Franz gur leisean a "th ad foilsi ch in" faoina chuid
> > > aisling Maigdil anacha.
>
> > Hmm. That looks a bit difficult to memorize!
>
> Is dóigh le Franz = is opinion with Franz
> gur leisean = that-is with-him (note the emphatic form leisean 'with
> HIM' instead of leis 'with him')
> a théad foilsiúcháin = his thread of-publishing
> faoina chuid aislingí Maigdiléanacha = about-his share [of] visions
> Magdalenian.
>
> If you cannot see the acute accents, here is the version with slashes
> instead:
> Is do/igh le Franz gur leisean a the/ad foilsiu/cha/in faoina chuid
***
How faoina has i_a on both sides of -n-?
Is this not against spelling rules?
A.
Franz Gnaedinger
The bird man in the pit of the Lascaux cave
as river map of the Guyenne
http://www.seshat.ch/home/menhir6i.GIF
The famous scene shows the bird man and a bull
and a bird on a pole. Michael Rappenglück identified
the eyes of the man and bull and bird as the Summer
Triangle Deneb Vega Atair as it looked in the time
of Lascaux, whereupon I came to realize that the
scene combines a heavenly map with a map of the
Guyenne, the bird man the rivers, the bull the
mountains in the east, and the bird on a pole the
Pyrenées in the south, and the tribes living there.
Now there is one more element in the pit scene,
a whoolly rhinoceros, running to the left side,
behind her a double row of three and three dots.
Marie E.P. König identified the rhinoceros as the
goddess of life, of giving life and taking life, she
had wounded the bull - she gave him life, she took
his life, and she will give him a second life in the
region of Vega in the sky, while the bird man
will get a second life in the region of Deneb,
and the bird on a pole will get a second life in
the region of Atair in Aquila 'eagle'. In my opinion,
Lascaux was the cave where aspiring tribal leaders
and shamans were initiated. The pit would have
showed them what happened when they died,
the body goes down into the ground (pit, underside
of the whoolly rhinoceros going over into the rock,
identifying the goddess of life as a chthonic deity)
while the soul will find a heavenly abode in the
region of the Summer Triangle. Now this Summer
Triangle is also indicated by the big vulva of the
goddess drawn on a stalactite in the rear hall of
the Chauvet Cave, Lower Rhone Valley, 32,000
till 30,000 years ago, before her womb the head
of a bison, the supreme leader of that region
being born again by the goddess in the region
of the Summer Triangle, and then there is an
inscription of red dots in the Brunel Chamber
of the same Chauvet cave, a domino five,
in early 2006 identified with my PAS by one
poster Holly, while an additional dot in upper
position can be read as CA for sky:
O O O CA
O
O O PAS
PAS means everywhere in a plain, here, south
and north of me, east and west of me, while CA
means sky, together PAS CA -- may the supreme
leader or bull man who roams the earth in this life
roam the sky in his next leife, get everywhere PAS
in the sky CA ... And his adventures in the sky
were told and sung and enacted in the oldest epic,
the one of ARC TYR, a memory of which is kept
in our constellations (you may look up my Vision
of the Paleolithic Sky, toward the end of my
Magdalenian dictionary
http://www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux2.htm )
Michael Janda concluded from his thorough and
inspired studies of the Rig Veda that there must
have been a Paleolithic belief in a second life
in the beyond, somewhere along the Milky Way.
This 'somewhere' was the Summer Triangle
Deneb Vega Atair.
(to be continued)
-
Franz Gnaedinger
Magdalenian DAI means protected area, visualized
by tectiform signs, while the comparative form SAI
means life, existence, indicated by rows and fields
of dots. Now the PAS CA inscription in the Brunel
Chamber of Chauvet consists of red dots, lending
it one more layer of meaning: May the bull man
(supreme leader of the Lower Rhone Valley) have
a second life in the sky, roaming the heavens
as he roamed the land ... The same formula, but
5,000 to 7,000 years younger, is found in the cave
Pech Merle: a field of red dots, in the middle a clearly
recognizeable cross, this time horizontal / vertical,
and left of the dots, in upper position, a hand negative.
The cross can be read as PAS meaning everywhere
in a plain, here, south and north of me, east and west
of me. The dots below the cross can be read as AC
meaning an expanse of land with water, or simply land,
earth. And the dots above the cross (a few more than
below) can be read as CA meaning sky, heaven.
PAS AC means everywhere on earth, PAS CA
everywhere in the sky, together: May the supreme
leader, born again (given a second life) in a heavenly
abode, roam the sky as he roamed the land ...
The bright hand negative may symbolize a star,
and the man in his heavenly abode among the stars
(five fingers of a hand, five points of an Egyptian star).
Red dots were found on walls of Neolithic houses
in Switzerland: May this home be blessed with life,
many healthy children ... A more elaborate version
of dots are the trefoils of Harappan art, for example
the red trefoils on a lingam stand: May the owner
of this lingam be blessed with a long life, good health,
and many children ...
The formula PAS AC may survive in Pesach 'Passover',
the Jewish festival celebrating the Exodus from Egypt
(we get everywhere PAS on earth AC, nothing and
nobody body can hold us up, not even the Egyptian
border and Pharaoh's army). The transfiguration
formula PAS CA survives in Russian Paskha Italian
Pasqua French Pâques 'Easter'. And the inverse of
PAS AC, namely AC PAS, yielded a word for the
domesticated horse, PIE *h1ekwos Greek hippos
Latin equus, and the name of the Gallo-Roman
horse goddess Epona - riding on the back of a horse
you can get everywhere PAS on earth AC ...
The Old Magdalenian word for horse was PAC,
the word for upward AS, horse upward PAC AS,
wherefrom Greek Pegasos, the winged horse
Pegasus, while inverse AS PAC may account
for Sanskrit asva 'horse'. PIE derives hippos
and equus and asva from the same *h1ekwos.
Magdalenian makes an archaeologically relevant
difference: Sanskrit asva would originally have
been the horse that carried a dead Indo-European
noble to his heavenly abode. Horses buried in
kurgas had the same function, and eulogies held
on funerals made Pegasus the emblem of poetry.
German Ross and English horse have yet another
origin. TYR means overcomer, as verb to overcome
in the double sense of rule and give, a most important
word that became emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr
Doric Zeus Homeric Zeus. The inverse RYT names
a spear thrower, archer, consider Greek rhytaer
'archer, protector', and an emphatic form of RYT
is German Ross meaning horse, originally the item
of horse and riding archer, German Ritter 'knight'.
(to be continued)
-
Franz Gnaedinger
The Gallo-Roman horse goddess Epona was an
alter ego of REO Rhea Rheia. One of Epona's main
cult centers was Alesia (Mont Auxois) at the base of
Mont Réa. The emblematic animals of Epona were
a bird, a foal, and a dog, reminding of Rhea as mother
of Zeus whose animal was the eagle, of Poseidon whose
animal was the horse, and of Hades whose animal was
a hound. Poseidon fell in love with Demeter, goddess
of cereals, and followed her in the guise of a stallion,
whereupon she turned into a mare. The cereal oat as
favorite food of the horse links Demeter and Poseidon
and may explain the parallel of Greek bromos 'oat'
and bro:mos 'food', oat as epitome of food, wild oats
eaten by horses, and, from the second millennium BC
onward, cultivated oats eaten by humans, emblematic
cereal whose single nodules mirror the way wild oat
grows on meadows, everywhere PAS in single bunches,
wherefrom Old Prussian wyse 'oat' and German Wiese
'meadow'
PAS wAS wySe / wieSe
while PAS meaning everywhere in a plain, here, south
and north of me, east and west of me, combined with
CAP in the wider sense of pluck and graze would
account for PIE *h1ewis 'oat' and German Hafer 'oat'
CAP PAS hA w AS hewis
CAP PAS kA f Ar hAfer
English oat Middle English ote Old English ate plural
atan go back to *ed 'eat' while the plural oats may
combine a memory of the plural implied in PAS and
the plural of the many nodules (contrary to a compact
ear of grain).
I thank Harlan Messinger for advancing the Magdalenian
approach to early language by posing good questions.
A couple of years ago he asked about the etymology of
lobby. His question made me realize that the Divine Hind
or Hind Woman CER -: I -: did not only ask moon bulls
into existence, and generally animals into life, but also
plants. Looking for evidence in her main sanctuary
Altamira I noticed that the tails of some of the splendid
bisons are not rendered in the usual and correct form
of a 'paintbrush' but in the shape of a fir twiglet ...
Now this year he asks about grains, and why English
oat is used in the plural, oats? Pondering this question
I realized how far the influence of the Divine Hind or
Hind Woman CER -: I -: reaches, and worked out
the genealogy of her successors:
Divine Hind or Hind Woman CER -: I -:
called moon bulls into existence
cow-eyed Hera
Divine Hind or Hind Woman CER -: I -:
alter ego BIR GID
triple goddess PIR GID and BIR GID and BRI GID
successor REO Rhea Rheia
alter ego Epona
triple goddess PIR GID and BIR GID and BRI GID
collective name AD DA MAI TYR
Greek Demeter
Roman alter ego Ceres
The collective name of the fire giver PIR GID and
fur giver BIR GID and fertility giver BRI GID was
AD DA MAI TYR, she who overcomes in the double
sense of rule and give TYR and watches over the
coming to AD and going from DA female zone of
a camp MAI. The long compound became Demeter,
the Greek goddess of cereals whose Roman alter
ego Ceres preserves the CER of CER -: I -: while
the Epona line and Ceres line in the above
genealogy are linked by the cereal oat, preferred
food of the equine.
Harlan Messinger, although being an adversary
of the Magdalenian approach to early language,
has merits in advancing the Magdalenian approach
to early language, in expanding the comparative
method of Paleo-linguistics and mythology.
Harlan Messinger
> three messages from the thread 'Grains' (a)
>
> The bird man in the pit of the Lascaux cave
> as river map of the Guyenne
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/menhir6i.GIF
> The famous scene shows the bird man and a bull
> and a bird on a pole. Michael Rappenglück identified
"Identified" = "made up a connection".
> the eyes of the man and bull and bird as the Summer
> Triangle Deneb Vega Atair as it looked in the time
> of Lascaux, whereupon I came to realize that the
"Came to realize" = "made up a connection"
> scene combines a heavenly map with a map of the
> Guyenne, the bird man the rivers,
Even though the map of the rivers on which you superimposed the man
looks nothing whatsoever like the man.
> the bull the
> mountains in the east,
Why, of course. Because it couldn't possibly just be a picture of a bull.
> and the bird on a pole the
> Pyrenées in the south, and the tribes living there.
> Now there is one more element in the pit scene,
> a whoolly rhinoceros, running to the left side,
> behind her a double row of three and three dots.
> Marie E.P. König identified the rhinoceros as the
> goddess of life, of giving life and taking life, she
> had wounded the bull - she gave him life, she took
> his life, and she will give him a second life in the
> region of Vega in the sky, while the bird man
> will get a second life in the region of Deneb,
> and the bird on a pole will get a second life in
> the region of Atair in Aquila 'eagle'.
I've never been more inclined than I am now to wonder if you're smoking
peyote. Unless, of course, you intend for all of this to be a fictional
tale.
Franz Gnaedinger
Biraka 'blessed' may derive from BIR AC CA,
a highly complex (Late) Magdalenian formula.
BIR means fur, especially the fur on which
a newborn was placed, Greek byrsa 'skin, fur',
Scottish bir 'son', Aramaic bar 'son'. AC means
an expanse of land with water, or simply earth,
consider the many village names ending on -ac
in the Guyenne (southwestern France), while
the inverse CA means sky, Old Latin caelum
'sky, heaven'. AC CA was the ancient name
of the Göbekli Tepe: where earth and sky are
meeting (perhaps the Syrian province by the
name of aqa mentioned by the Egyptians).
BIR AC CA may evoke a Mesolithic ritual,
sort of an early baptism: imagine a newborn
placed on a bear fur on top of a sacred hill
where earth and sky are meeting and where
deities gather, implored to protect and bless
the child ... AC CA has an important derivative
in Latin aqua 'water' (prayers for rain and the
smoke of sacrificial fires imploring rain
ascending from earth to sky, and falling rain
rewarding the prayers and sacrificial fires),
and if some drops of waters were involved
in that Mesolithic or Neolithic ritual, it could
have been a real baptism ...
BIR AC CA would also have been part of
the Göbekli Tepe myth of origin as given
in hieroglyphs on the female central pillar
of temple D
)OG BIR AC CA
The fire giver PIR GID called out to her sister
the fur giver BIR GID. This one took her
cosmic fur BIR and scooped the primeval hill
LAD out of the primeval sea. Hereupon the
fire giver PIR GID called out to her sister
the feritlity giver BRI GID. This one divided
the primeval hill BIR LAD into the earth AC
and the sky CA and planted the seeds of life,
and when PIR GID warmed the world, plants
and animals emerged from niches and clefts
in the rock and populated land, water and sky.
Pictures and the whole story on my page
http://www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux3.htm
BIR LAD became English world. ) or L or
)OG or LOG became Hebrew El and Elohim
'Lord', Greek logos, and Arabic Allah. And the
formula )OG BIR AC CA became Genesis 1:1.
BIR AC CA in the form of baraka elevated
a person by linking him or her to the very origin
of the world. Of course a 12,000 years old
formula underwent many reinterpretations,
however, it never really drifted away but rather
oscillated.
Harlan Messinger
> biraka
>
> Biraka 'blessed' may derive from BIR AC CA,
> a highly complex (Late) Magdalenian formula.
> BIR means fur, especially the fur on which
> a newborn was placed,
What is the difference between a word meaning something and a word
meaning something *especially*? Does "blanket" *especially* mean a
blanket that someone has laid a baby on? Is milk *especially* milk when
a baby drinks it?
> Greek byrsa 'skin, fur',
> Scottish bir 'son', Aramaic bar 'son'. AC means
> an expanse of land with water, or simply earth,
> consider the many village names ending on -ac
> in the Guyenne (southwestern France), while
> the inverse CA means sky, Old Latin caelum
> 'sky, heaven'. AC CA was the ancient name
> of the Göbekli Tepe:
No, it wasn't.
> where earth and sky are
> meeting (perhaps the Syrian province by the
> name of aqa mentioned by the Egyptians).
> BIR AC CA may evoke a Mesolithic ritual,
> sort of an early baptism: imagine a newborn
> placed on a bear fur on top of a sacred hill
> where earth and sky are meeting and where
> deities gather, implored to protect and bless
> the child
In the same way that Kipling's stories *may* explain how the rhinoceros
got its rough skin and the camel got its hump, and Arthur C. Clarke's
2010 *may* explain how Jupiter will become our second sun. Oh, wait,
2010 is gone already. I guess we can't base science on fiction.
> ... AC CA has an important derivative
> in Latin aqua 'water'
"Important derivation" = you made it up specifically to suit this purpose.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
Well, yes. But there are some instances where the rule does not apply.
With certain prepositions, you put a -n- between it and the possessive
pronoun a (= his, her, their). Thus, faoi + a yields faoina, ó + a
gives óna, le + a becomes lena.
António Marques
Modern Irish is reasonably fond of ignoring the 'rule' for some inflections
and compounds, and writing together words that aren't necessarily a unit -
cf. anseo (an seo), aniar (an shiar).
And as I believe I've mentioned recently, ae < aedhea is considered broad on
both sides even thoug it ends in -e.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
> Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta wrote (04-03-2011 20:57):
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 3 mar, 15:44, yangg<fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >> On Mar 1, 1:19 am, Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta<craoibhi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> If you cannot see the acute accents, here is the version with slashes
> >>> instead:
> >>> Is do/igh le Franz gur leisean a the/ad foilsiu/cha/in faoina chuid
> >>> aislingi/ Maigdile/anacha.-
>
> >> ***
>
> >> How faoina has i_a on both sides of -n-?
>
> >> Is this not against spelling rules?
>
> > Well, yes. But there are some instances where the rule does not apply.
> > With certain prepositions, you put a -n- between it and the possessive
> > pronoun a (= his, her, their). Thus, faoi + a yields faoina, ó + a
> > gives óna, le + a becomes lena.
>
> Modern Irish is reasonably fond of ignoring the 'rule' for some inflections
> and compounds, and writing together words that aren't necessarily a unit -
> cf. anseo (an seo), aniar (an shiar).
Yes. However, the ignorance of the rule is IMHO a sensible enough way
to signalize that the first vowel of such words as aréir, arís, aniar,
anseo is not stressed.
>
> And as I believe I've mentioned recently, ae < aedhea is considered broad on
> both sides even thoug it ends in -e.
Yes, ae is broad on both sides. "Traenach", the genitive of "traein",
is broad on both sides, "traein" has an extra i to signalize that the
n is slender.
Franz Gnaedinger
there' J.P. Harvey, The Go-Between, 1953
We are thinking in dimensions - a plane has two,
space three, and the space-time continuum four
dimensions. But the Stone Age people, I claim,
thought in places and locations.
Five years ago I reconstructed the permutation groups
of PAD and the comparative form PAS, a dozen words
(Magdalenian words come in groups). PAD means
activity of feet. PAS means everywhere in a plain, here,
south and north of me, east and west of me -- five
places, Greek pas pan 'all, every' pente penta- 'five'.
Inverse SAP means everywhere in space, here, south
and north of me, east and west of me, under and
above me -- seven places, number seven in many
languages, Greek sophia 'wisdom' and Latin sapientia
'world wisdom'.
The dingir rosette of Sumerian texts carved in stone
and the dingir star of eight points on Sumerian
cuneiform tablets encode a calendar of 8 solar years
or 99 lunar years or 5 Venus years. A long month had
45 days; a year 8 long months plus 5 more days, 365
days; a long dingir period 8 solar years plus 2 more
days, 2922 days. 8 solar years are 2921.937... days
99 lunations or synodic months are 2923.528... days,
5 Venus years are 2920.5 days, average 2921.988...
days, practically 2922 days, a long dingir cycle or
period. 21 continuous periods of 45 days are 945
days and correspond to 32 lunations; mistake less
than one minute per lunation, or half a day in a lifetime.
Now the dingir rosette of eight petals and dingir star
of eight points can be read as a world formula
in the old sense of places instead of dimensions:
here and now (center of the rosette and star),
south and north of me, east and west of me,
under and above me, before my time and in the
future (eight petals of the rosette or points of the star).
My interpretations rely on archaeology, especially
on the geometrical rock carvings in over 2,000 caves
of the Ile de France (Paris and region around it), and
on words in many languages. Those who consider
cave art irrelevant are certainly not in a position to
judge my work.
Cave art is better inspiration than drugs. And the
belief that the past was but an imperfect present
while our time will be the paradigm of all future
is a hallmark of the half-scientific mind.
-
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
> 'The past is another country: they do things differently
> there' J.P. Harvey, The Go-Between, 1953
L. P. Hartley, actually. Hartley, Leslie Poles Hartley, L.P. Hartley.
If you ever did real science, you would soon learn to quote correctly.
Franz Gnaedinger
P.J. Hartley, I noticed the mistake half an hour
after posting my message. Now, once again,
for my stalker of the many online identities.
He had opend a publishing thread of his own,
competing with me, announcing that we shall
see whose publishing thread will gain more
interest, his or mine ... And what did he publish
in his publishing thread? He announced to the
world that he published something somewhere,
in some paper. Then he let follow some trivia
and textbook matter titbits. He had no ideas
to publish, nothing much to say. His thread
withered and soon died. He opened a second
publishing thread of his own, proclaiming that
he intends to publish something else elsewhere,
in some other paper, threw up some trivia and
half digested titbits, and requiescat in pacem.
Now he usurps my publishing threads, and in
so doing answers his own question: m y threads
are the interesting ones, I got plenty to say and
can maintain them for a long time. He can only
disrupt my work and make his aliasses bray.
He is an over-ambitious highschool boy coming
to age, revealing his ambition by calling his trivia
Lectures, and his aggression by calling them
Memorial Lectures in my name, as if I were
already dead. Before he joined sci.lang he posted
ugly messages to soc.men, fighting women.
Then he abandoned women for me; fifty-one
per cent of humankind for single me; three billion
and sixty million of human souls for me alone,
giving me a lot of weight and importance. Well,
I got ideas for many people, ideas that will survive
me and unfold one by one.
-
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
> Sorry for the typo, the quote I gave is by Hartley,
> P.J. Hartley, I noticed the mistake half an hour
> after posting my message.
Oh yes, certainly. :D
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
> On 5 mar, 01:31, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta wrote (04-03-2011 20:57):
>
> > > On 3 mar, 15:44, yangg<fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> > >> On Mar 1, 1:19 am, Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta<craoibhi...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >>> If you cannot see the acute accents, here is the version with slashes
> > >>> instead:
> > >>> Is do/igh le Franz gur leisean a the/ad foilsiu/cha/in faoina chuid
> > >>> aislingi/ Maigdile/anacha.-
>
> > >> ***
>
> > >> How faoina has i_a on both sides of -n-?
>
> > >> Is this not against spelling rules?
>
> > > Well, yes. But there are some instances where the rule does not apply.
> > > With certain prepositions, you put a -n- between it and the possessive
> > > pronoun a (= his, her, their). Thus, faoi + a yields faoina, ó + a
> > > gives óna, le + a becomes lena.
>
> > Modern Irish is reasonably fond of ignoring the 'rule' for some inflections
> > and compounds, and writing together words that aren't necessarily a unit -
> > cf. anseo (an seo), aniar (an shiar).
>
> Yes. However, the ignorance of the rule is IMHO a sensible enough way
> to signalize that the first vowel of such words as aréir, arís, aniar,
> anseo is not stressed.
...and these are, of course, adverbs, meaning:
aréir = last night (dialectally also aréirannas, which is
interestingly often written aréirnas, violating the rule)
arís = again (dialectally very often aríst)
anseo = here (as Antonio correctly pointed out, it is etymologically a
compound, ann seo, 'in this').
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
it can denote emotions, transient states of mind, obligations, and
diseases. Its personal forms are orm = upon me, ort = upon thee, air =
upon him/upon it (MASC), uirthi = upon her/upon it (FEM), orainn =
upon us, oraibh = upon you (people), orthu = upon them.
Emotions, states of mind and body:
Tá fearg orm. "Is anger upon-me". I am angry.
Bhí fonn craicinn ar Phroinsias, agus é ag breathnú ar na físeáin
phornagrafaíocha. "Was desire of-skin upon Proinsias, and him looking
upon the videos of-pornography." Proinsias experienced sexual desire
while watching pornographic videos.
Beidh lúcháir orainn nuair a thiocfaidh Johnny abhaile. "Will-be joy-
of-welcoming upon-us the-hour [direct relative clause marker] will-
come Johnny home." We'll be happy when Johnny comes home.
Bíonn tuirse orm i ndiaidh turas fada siúil a chur díom. "Is-usually
tiredness upon-me after tour long of-walking to put off-me". I am
usually tired after taking a long walking tour.
Bhí ocras orm sular ith mé mo chuid, ach tá ceas orm anois. "Was
hunger upon-me before ate I my share, but is feeling-of-surfeit now."
I was hungry before I ate, but now I feel I might have eaten too much.
Obligation:
Bhí orm dul sna saighdiúirí nuair a bhí ionsaí na nEilvéiseach
brúidiúil ag bagairt ar thír ár ndúchais. "Was upon-me go in(to)-the
soldiers the-hour [rel. cls. marker] was attack of-the Swiss (GEN-PL)
brutal at threatening upon country our of-heritage." I had to join the
Army when the invasion of the brutal Swiss was threatening our
fatherland.
Disease:
Tá bruitíneach ar an bpáiste bocht. "Is measles on the child poor."
The poor child is ill with measles.
Tá fiabhras orm. "Is fever upon-me". I have fever, I have run a
temperature.
Note also that "ar", naturally, is used with labels, prices, names.
Cén t-ainm atá ar an bhfear sin? Peter Daniels/Antonio Marques/Athel
Cornish-Bowden atá air. "Which-the name that-is upon the man that?
Peter Daniels that-is on-him," What's the name of that man? His name
is Peter Daniels/Antonio Marques/Athel Cornish-Bowden.
Tá fiche míle euro ar an ngluaisteán sin. "Is twenty thousand euro on
the automobile that." That automobile costs 20,000 euro.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
And the name still isn't PJ Hartley, but LP (Leslie Poles) Hartley by
the way. I take it Franz is more familiar with PJ O'Rourke.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
time to write something about the copula. Watch this space.
Harlan Messinger
> Sorry for the typo, the quote I gave is by Hartley,
> P.J. Hartley, I noticed the mistake half an hour
> after posting my message. Now, once again,
> for my stalker of the many online identities.
> He had opend a publishing thread of his own,
> competing with me, announcing that we shall
> see whose publishing thread will gain more
> interest, his or mine ... And what did he publish
> in his publishing thread?
[snip]
Once again displaying your arrogance by assuming that the rest of the
world needs AGAIN to have a record of your personal trials and
tribulations and that sci.lang is an appropriate place for them.
Remember that the next time you speak of anyone else's supposed arrogance.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
>
>
> I've never been more inclined than I am now to wonder if you're smoking
> peyote. Unless, of course, you intend for all of this to be a fictional
> tale.
I already asked whether he was a narcomaniac, but he never admitted it.
Franz Gnaedinger
Arabic burka 'pond' and baraq 'lightning' posed
in another thread)
You have to go back to the Göbekli Tepe and
the formula BIR AC CA of many meanings and
implications. The ancient name of the Göbekli Tepe
would have been AC CA, where earth and sky are
meeting, naming not only the earth AC and sky CA
but also the exchanges between them, especially
prayers for rain and the smoke of sacrificial fires
imploring rain ascending to the sky, visualized by
snakes heading upward, and falling rain rewarding
the prayers and sacrificial fires, visualized by snakes
heading downward. Snakes in upward and more often
downward motion are the most frequent reliefs on
Göbekli Tepe pillars, indicating the severity of the
water problem already 11,600 years ago - a problem
solved by cooperation, the only solution that would
also work today. The water aspect of AC CA turned
the compound into Latin aqua 'water'. Water was
scooped out of numerous holes in the ground of
the carst landscpae with fur bags and goat skins,
which is why BIR meaning fur named wells and
fountains, Hebrew beer 'fountain' and Arabic burka
'pond' and German Brunnen 'well, fountain'. Now for
the aspect of lightning. I explain the river names
Euphrates and Tigris via the fire archers PIR RYT
and their 'fingers of light and luck' DIG LIC shot into
the air on New Year's Eve, the night following the two
and occasionally three days of the midwinter festival
PIR RYT Firat Euphrates
DIG LIC Dicle Tigris
Fire arrows would also have been shot into the sky
as plea for rain, indicated by tablets of the Göbekli
Tepe aera and era; here an assemblage of tablets
from Jerf el-Ahmar, Tell Abr3, and Netiv Hagdud
(in the bottom line to the left the big limestone ring
on the Göbekli Tepe, and to the right the Göbekli
Tepe hieroglyph of the lying H )
http://www.seshat.ch/home/tablets.GIF
Among the symbols you can see arrow heads and
zigzag lines shotting up, reaching the lofty height of
a man standing on a rainbow or the ring of the sky,
and other arrow heads and zigzag lines shooting
downward - the former prayers for rain and fire arrows
shot into the sky, pleading for rain; the latter lightning
bolts (actually the main discharge of most flashes
move upward but are perceived as moving downward)
and falling rain sent by the god from above, by the sky
god AAR RAA NOS, mind NOS of the one consisting
of air AAR and light RAA, shown ex negativo by the
big limestone ring on the Göbekli Tepe
http://www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG
AAR RAA NOS became Greek Ouranos and Sanskrit
Varuna, and gave his name to many valleys in western
Europe, for example Val d'Aran, Arundel, or the Val
d'Hérens in the Swiss Alps, a valley being a hollow
between hills and mountains, a hollow filled with air
and light, while the variation AAR RAA CA, the one
consisting of air AAR and light RAA in the sky CA,
became Egyptian Horus, Harappan muruku and
Tamil Murukan, RAA alone Ra, the supreme Egyptian
god manifesting himself in the sun. AAR RAA MAN,
they who carry out the will of the one composed
of air AAR and light RAA with their right hand MAN
became Aram (old name of Syria) Aramean Aramaic.
AAR RAA BRA, they who carry out the will of the one
consisting of air AAR and light RAA with their right arm
BRA became Arab. And ABA BRA, he who carries out
the will of the (heavenly) father ABA with his right arm
BRA became Abram who was renamed into Abraham,
as told in the Bible (Genesis 17:5): "Neither shall thy
name anymore be called Abram, but thy name shall be
Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee"
- a typical example of a very ancient name that was
no longer understood and therefore modified and given
new meaning. A further name in the above list is
BRA MAN, right arm BRA right hand MAN, evoking
Brahman who created the world by playing his lyra ...
The main religions have a common origin. Cooperation
is again the answer to the problems of our time. Our
civilization is a common achievment and requires
the cooperation of good and willing people from all over
the world in order to solve the problems are facing today
and will face tomorrow.
-
Franz Gnaedinger
Let me talk about a region of Switzerland in the
Mesolithic, some 6,000 years ago (our Mesolithic
lasted longer), the broad valley of the rivers Lorze
and Reuss from Baar and Cham on lake Zug via
Bremgarten to Birr and Birrhard and Birmenstorf
near the confluence of the Reuss and the Rhine.
The river names Reuss and Rhine derive from
REO. Above Bremgarten, on the crest of the
western moraine of the former Reuss glacier,
is Berikon; to the north of it Berikon-Widen, to the
south Lieli, and in the valley west of Lieli, a valley
parallel to the one of the Reuss, but smaller,
is Birmensdorf. I recognize BIR meaning fur
in Baar and Berikon and Birmensdorf and Birr
and Birrhard and Birmenstorf. It may perhaps
also be present in Bremgarten. This makes me
assume that the valley of the Reuss from Lake
Zug to the Rhine had been the hunting ground
of a Mesolithic tribe who hunted mainly bears
and wolves for their fur, and who settled on the
hill of Cham, just on lake Zug, where now stands
a castle. I derive Cham from KAI DOM, to build
a good camp KAI camp DOM, and Zug, akin to
English tug, from DhAG meaning able, so these
hunters would have been rather formidable men
settling in a permanent camp on the hill of Cham
and wandering along the valley, where they would
have maintained several temporary camps, for
example on the eastern moraine above Bremgarten,
where there are seveal boulders piled on each
other by the former glacier, for example the so-
called Erdmannlistein, next to it a slab that faintly
resembles a bear
http://www.seshat.ch/home/erdm1.JPG
http://www.seshat.ch/home/erdm4.JPG
http://www.seshat.ch/home/erdm5a.JPG
The hunters could have gathered here in spring,
and again in fall when the bears fished for salmons
in the rapids of Bremgarten. In the names of the
villages Birmensdorf and Birmenstorf I recognize
BIR MAN, as in Birmingham in Middle England,
fur BIR right hand MAN, indicating places where furs
have been worked upon, scrubbed and washed
and cut and sown together to clothes and caps and
poaches and shoes and covers. The name of Berikon
may derive from BIR RAG, the first word meaning fur,
also furry animal, especially bear, the second word
naming the line of the head and back of an animal,
together a crest line, a range of hills or mountains
evoking an animal, Greek rachis 'back, mountain ridge',
Old English ryc 'back', German Rücken 'back' and
Bergrücken 'mountain ridge'. I lived for several years
in Berikon, when the village still had the charms of
a farming place, and on clear summer evenings
you could see the setting sun hovering over seven
ranges of hazy Jura hills in the far distance ...
-
Harlan Messinger
> I recognize BIR meaning fur
> in Baar and Berikon and Birmensdorf and Birr
> and Birrhard and Birmenstorf.
"Recognize" = "make up".
> It may perhaps
> also be present in Bremgarten. This makes me
> assume that the valley of the Reuss from Lake
> Zug to the Rhine had been the hunting ground
> of a Mesolithic tribe who hunted mainly bears
> and wolves for their fur, and who settled on the
> hill of Cham, just on lake Zug, where now stands
> a castle. I derive Cham from KAI DOM, to build
> a good camp KAI camp DOM, and Zug, akin to
"Derive" = "make up".
> English tug, from DhAG meaning able, so these
> hunters would have been rather formidable men
> settling in a permanent camp on the hill of Cham
> and wandering along the valley, where they would
> have maintained several temporary camps, for
> example on the eastern moraine above Bremgarten,
> where there are seveal boulders piled on each
> other by the former glacier, for example the so-
> called Erdmannlistein, next to it a slab that faintly
> resembles a bear
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/erdm1.JPG
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/erdm4.JPG
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/erdm5a.JPG
>
> The hunters could have gathered here in spring,
> and again in fall when the bears fished for salmons
> in the rapids of Bremgarten. In the names of the
> villages Birmensdorf and Birmenstorf I recognize
"Recognize" = "make up".
It doesn't make sense no matter how many times you say it.
Franz Gnaedinger
BIR means fur and named several furry animals,
the bear, boar, beaver, and *werwer 'squirrel'.
RAG names the line and head of an animal,
Greek rachis 'back, mountain ridge', Old English
ryc 'back', German Rücken 'back' Bergrücken
'mountain ridge' ragen 'to tower, loom'. BIR RAG
designates a mountain ridge in analogy to a furry
animal, say, a sleeping bear, wherefrom German
Berg 'mountain'. Fortified settlements, fortresses,
citadels and castles were often built on rocky
hilltops, which may account for a shift of meaning,
from BIR RAG to Scottish borough and then burgh,
as in Edinburgh, while the inhabitant of a burgh
became a German Bürger 'citizen, member of
the society'. German Burg means fortress, citadel,
castel. In Switzerland, rocky hilltops are called Berg
Burg Bürgel Bürglen, and village names beginning
with Berg- and Burg- or ending on -berg and -burg
are synonyms, equating a fortress Burg perched on
a rocky hilltop with the mountain Berg supporting it.
You may also consider the Etruscan villages built
on steep rocks, hill and village appearing as one.
In Switzerland we also have mountains called
-rücken '-back' and Roggen from Romance or
Latin rocca 'rock' and farther back RAG. There is
a Roggenburg with an alledged Roman watchtower,
in documents called Rocgenberg and Rokinberc.
A high rock (mountain) is called Roggenhorn 'rocky
horn' Roggengrat 'rocky crest' Roggenfurgge ' rocky
mountain' - in the latter case BIR RAG did not yield
the usual ber-g but fur-g, as in the transition from
Magdalenian BIR to English fur.
PS. Mistakes of the previous message corrected
in the quote below (eastern western)
-
> Berikon
>
> Let me talk about a region of Switzerland in the
> Mesolithic, some 6,000 years ago (our Mesolithic
> lasted longer), the broad valley of the rivers Lorze
> and Reuss from Baar and Cham on lake Zug via
> Bremgarten to Birr and Birrhard and Birmenstorf
> near the confluence of the Reuss and the Rhine.
> The river names Reuss and Rhine derive from
> REO. Above Bremgarten, on the crest of the
> eastern moraine of the former Reuss glacier,
> is Berikon; to the north of it Berikon-Widen, to the
> south Lieli, and in the valley east of Lieli, a valley
> parallel to the one of the Reuss, but smaller,
> is Birmensdorf. I recognize BIR meaning fur
> in Baar and Berikon and Birmensdorf and Birr
> and Birrhard and Birmenstorf. It may perhaps
> also be present in Bremgarten. This makes me
> assume that the valley of the Reuss from Lake
> Zug to the Rhine had been the hunting ground
> of a Mesolithic tribe who hunted mainly bears
> and wolves for their fur, and who settled on the
> hill of Cham, just on lake Zug, where now stands
> a castle. I derive Cham from KAI DOM, to build
> a good camp KAI camp DOM, and Zug, akin to
> English tug, from DhAG meaning able, so these
> hunters would have been rather formidable men
> settling in a permanent camp on the hill of Cham
> and wandering along the valley, where they would
> have maintained several temporary camps, for
> example on the western moraine above Bremgarten,
António Marques
> compound, ann seo, 'in this').
> arís = again (dialectally very often aríst)
In SG, a-rithist, both with the traditional hyphen and the frequent
unetymological <th> to denote hiatus of what used to be single stressed long
vowel.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
The hyphen is a good way to denote the non-initial stress, but how
traditional is it outside ScG?
Franz Gnaedinger
The meaning of a word is defined by the use of the word,
and rhyme is defined by the rhymes used by true poets.
Have a look at the "skippin' reels of rhyme" by Bob Dylan
(equally free rhymes are also found in Edward de Vere
alias William Shakespeare, have a look at his sonnets):
"Mr. Tambourine Man"
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you.
Though I know that evenin's empire has returned into sand
Vanished from my hand
Left me blindly here to stand but still not sleeping
My weariness amazes me, I'm branded on my feet
I have no one to meet
And the ancient empty street's too dead for dreaming.
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you.
Take me on a trip upon your magic swirlin' ship
My senses have been stripped, my hands can't feel to grip
My toes too numb to step, wait only for my boot heels
To be wanderin'
I'm ready to go anywhere, I'm ready for to fade
Into my own parade, cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it.
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you.
Though you might hear laughin', spinnin' swingin' madly across the sun
It's not aimed at anyone, it's just escapin' on the run
And but for the sky there are no fences facin'
And if you hear vague traces of skippin' reels of rhyme
To your tambourine in time, it's just a ragged clown behind
I wouldn't pay it any mind, it's just a shadow you're
Seein' that he's chasing.
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you.
Then take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves
The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to
Hey ! Mr Tambourine Man, play a song for me
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you.
(to be continued)
-
Franz Gnaedinger
There are not only the rhymes among words,
there is also the 'rhyme' between the words
and the situation they describe, here a dance
to a drumbeat, on the Witmark demo a marching
rhythm pounded on a piano. The first rhymes
and steps are carefully placed
going to / following you
sand / hand / stand
sleeping // feet / meet // dreaming
Then the lyrics gather speed
trip / magic swhirlin' ship / stripped / step / grip
wandering // fade / parade // under it
and bring abandon with the "skippin' reels of rhyme"
laughin', spinnin' swingin' sun anyone escapin' run
fences facin' vague traces / skippin' reels of rhyme
To your tambourine in time,
it's just a ragged clown behind
I wouldn't pay it any mind,
it's just a shadow you're
Seein' that he's chasing.
Then take me disappearin'
through the smoke rings of my mind
Down the foggy ruins of time,
far past the frozen leaves
The haunted, frightened trees,
out to the windy beach
Far from the twisted reach
of crazy sorrow
Yes, to dance beneath
the diamond sky
with one hand waving free
Silhouetted by the sea
circled by the circus sands
With all memory and fate
driven deep beneath the waves
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.
You have to 'hear' the song in your mind when
reading the lines. The rhymes are like the beat
of the drum, returning regularly, holding up the
dancer in his moments of abandon. Rhymes
are more than can be defined, you have to
experience them from good poems and songs.
(to be continued)
-
Franz Gnaedinger
There are some funny rhymes in the sonnets
by Edward the Vere alias William Shakespeare
no English teacher would accept if coming from
a pupil:
1 never die / memory
15 self-same sky / memory
74 dead / remembered
77 memory / eternity
122 lasting memory / even to eternity
125 canopy / eternity
However, the half-rhymes interlock with a semantic
parallel - the person honored and immortalized
by a poem raised to the sky, as it were - and form
a perfect rhyme on a higher level
lasting memory / even to eternity
Another form of rhymes are alliterations, for example
the "sylvestran solitude" in Mark Twain's novel of
a Yankee at King Arthur's Court. Hank Morgan and
Sandy evade the heat of the fields and meadows
in summer by entering a forest and are surrounded
by sylvestran solitude - I just have to read and mouth
the two words and find myself enveloped in the memory
and sensation of a summer forest, the air pleasantly
cool and fresh, the tree trunks dark but the strong light
shining through the tender bright green leaves overhead.
A verse from one of my favorite Bob Dylan songs on the
Witmark demos and anyway, Tomorrow Is A Long Time
There's beauty in the silver-singing river
There's beauty in the sunrise in the sky
But none of these and nothing else matches the beauty
That I remember in my true love's eyes
I can imagine young Robert looking into the moving, sliding,
shining and glittering reflexes playing on the water of a river
and accompanying them on his guitar -- silver-singing river,
what a beautiful formulation!
All that really counts in poetry, and generally in art,
is the human measure, and this can't be defined,
nor transformed into a set of rules.
-
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
> I have hardly exhausted the tá verb yet, but I think it is about the
> time to write something about the copula. Watch this space.
So. The copula is called a verb, but in my opinion it is a part of
speech in its own right, because it has a syntax entirely of its own.
It has the following forms:
Present-future: is (statement, direct relative clause), ní (negative
statement), an (question), gur/gurb (subordinate "that" clause), nach
(negative question, and negative subordinate "that" clause as well as
both relative clauses if negated), ar/arb (indirect relative clause).
It fuses with:
cá "where" to yield cár(b)
cé "who, which" to yield cér(b)
do "to" to yield dar(b)
má "if" to yield más
mura "if not" to yield mura(b)
ó "as, because" to yield ós
Past-conditional: is -> ba (in direct relative also ab, for euphony)
ní -> níor, níorbh
an -> ar, arbh
gur/gurb -> gur, gurbh
nach -> nár, nárbh
ar, arb -> ar, arbh
cár(b) -> cár(bh)
cér(b) -> cér(bh)
dar(b) -> dar(bh)
más -> má ba
mura(b) -> murar(bh)
ós -> ó ba.
There is a tendency to treat ba as a normal verb in past and
especially in the conditional, so that we get colloquial forms such as
an mba for ar(bh), nach mba for nár(bh), and so on. Myself, I have
noticed that I tend to use these forms for conditional only. As you
know, I have learnt my Irish studying massive amounts of native
folklore, and it is quite possible that this differentiation is a
tendency present in native dialects.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> answering a question about defining rhymes (1/3)
What question? Who asked it? Why don't you quote it? Even if it's a
question invented by Franz Gnaedinger it would still be useful (or
maybe not) to know what it is you are replying to. If it's stimulated
by the Defining Rhyme thread why not put it there? How are the keen
young linguists searching for your thoughts about Defining Rhyme going
to find them here?
>
> The meaning of a word is defined by the use of the word,
> and rhyme is defined by the rhymes used by true poets....
--
athel
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
sixties rock songs. As regards "rhyme", different languages obviously
have different poetics and different concepts of rhyme. In Irish, the
cultural equivalent of rhymed poetry is obviously the amhrán, i.e. a
poem where all the stressed vowels "rhyme" (assonance would be more to
the point).
Here is a quote from Brian Merriman's Cúirt an Mheon-Oíche to
illustrate it:
Caithfeadsa gluaiseacht uaibh chun siúil
Is fada mo chuairdse ar fuaid na Mumhan.
Analysis: a - ua - ua - ú
c*a*ithfeadsa : fada
gl*ua*iseacht : ch*ua*irdse
*ua*ibh : f*ua*id
si*ú*il : M*umh*an.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
And while we are at it: when I was in Iceland 20 years ago, a local
poet wrote the following limerick on a napkin, which I memorized:
Séra Sigurður ómagi a Seylu
hafði sérkennilega veilu.
Han talaði lágt
og hugsaði hátt.
Það heyrðist og vakti deilu.
You see here that in Icelandic it is not enough to have rhyme. You
need alliteration too. Typically, in a pair of lines the first has two
allitterating words, in the second one just one. This is not a good
example though, because it is an improvised limerick. I guess I could
find more orthodox examples in Jónas Hallgrímsson, if I could find it.
Franz Gnaedinger
My stalker Panu Petteri Höglund alias alias alias
follows me around since five years, attacking and
molesting me and disrupting my work, currently
bloating my Magdalenian publishing thread with
morsels from Irish Learning textbooks, calling
them Lectures, Memorial Lecures in my name,
as if I were already dead and gone. So I guess
it is time to have a closer look at him. His problem
is a weak inner identity which explains a) his many
aliasas, b) his aggressive behaving, and c) why
he can't go beyond textbooks.
A) Panu Petteri Höglund compensates his weak
inner identity with more than a dozen artificial ones
in form of online aliases (currently Fánaí Gaelach
na nGleannta imposed on the craoibhin66 alias)
B) and bumps deliberately into others (women,
me, tentatively some others, me again, forever me,
being such an universal mind) in order to learn about
his outlines and thus trying to gain some sort of
identity via conflict
C) while forever sticking to the railing of textbooks.
If you built up a sound inner identity you cherish
what you have been taught but you can go beyond,
walking on your own feet, guided by your senses,
feelings and reason, and make your own specific
experiences, enjoying the freedom granted by an
inner certainty. I remember the shortly notorious
case of a schizophrenic 'artist' living in a valley
of the Swiss Canton of Ticino: he copied sentences
from journals and magazines and books on tin foil
discs and hung them on shrubs and trees in the
forest around his cabin. I found his 'work' depressing,
no experience of his own. A similar feeling is taking
hold of me now that I watch my stalker hang Irish
Learning textbook morsels in my publishing thread.
He always, and often angrily, admonished me to read
textbooks, apparently needing their outer security
in compensating the lack of an inner one. It upsets
him that I run free, and when I point out flaws and
deficits in linguistic literature he fears his own collapse.
Textbooks are the wall of his weak inner identity.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> wall of a weak identity
>
> My stalker Panu Petteri Höglund alias alias alias
> follows me around since five years
"since five years ago", or "for five years", but not "since five years"
> , attacking and
> molesting me and disrupting my work, currently
> bloating my Magdalenian publishing thread with
> morsels from Irish Learning textbooks,
making thus about the only inetresting thing about "your" "publishing" thread.
> calling
> them Lectures, Memorial Lecures in my name,
> as if I were already dead and gone. So I guess
> it is time to have a closer look at him. His problem
> is a weak inner identity which explains a) his many
> aliasas, b) his aggressive behaving,
"behaviour"
> and c) why...
[repetitive garbage clipped]
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> answering a question about defining rhymes (3/3)
>
> There are some funny rhymes in the sonnets
> by Edward the Vere
de Vere
> alias William Shakespeare
On what basis to you accept the aptly named Thomas Looney's attribution?
> no English teacher would accept if coming from
> a pupil:
>
> 1 never die / memory
>
> 15 self-same sky / memory
You're aware, of course, that the pronunciation of English has changed
since Shakespeare's time, not necessarily in a consistent way for all
words. [Heck, it's changed noticeably during my lifetime, even for one
speaker of what can be regarded as a standard form of English: there
are recordings of how the Queen speaks for all years since the 1950s,
and she certainly doesn't pronounce everything now the way she did in
1952, and words that rhymed in 1952 don't necessarily rhyme today (for
example, in 1952 "Kenya" rhymed with "Slovenia", but it doesn't today.
News broadcasts from the 1940s and earlier sound very different from
modern ones.] So, when you say "no English teacher would accept",
1. Do you mean a teacher of Shakespeare's day, in which case how do you
know what such a teacher would have accepted? Have you studied the
standards applied by teachers in the 16th century?
2. Or do you mean a teacher of today, in which case have you checked
the 16th century pronunciations of all the examples you give to be sure
that they wouldn't have rhymed at the time of writing? Otherwise, how
do these examples illustrate Shakespeare's standards of rhyming?
[ ... ]
--
athel
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
or two pronouns. If we have two definites, we are speaking about
identification sentences:
Is tusa mise. You are me.
Is mise mise. I am me.
Is sinne sibhse. We are you.
Is sibhse iadsan a raibh muid ag fanúint leo. You are those we were
waiting for.
Is mise an múinteoir. I am the teacher.
Is tusa an scoláire. You are the scholar/pupil.
The copula shouldn't be followed by a definite noun. It must be
"flanked" by a specially inserted pronoun.
Is é Máirtín an múinteoir. Martin is the teacher.
Is í Gobnait an scoláire. Dorothy is the scholar.
Is í Bríd an mháistreás scoile. Bridget is the schoolmistress.
Peter T. Daniels
wrote:
> On 2011-03-12 09:22:59 +0100, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> said:
>
> > answering a question about defining rhymes (3/3)
>
> > There are some funny rhymes in the sonnets
> > by Edward the Vere
>
> de Vere
>
> > alias William Shakespeare
>
> On what basis to you accept the aptly named Thomas Looney's attribution?
>
> > no English teacher would accept if coming from
> > a pupil:
>
> > 1 never die / memory
>
> > 15 self-same sky / memory
>
> You're aware, of course, that the pronunciation of English has changed
> since Shakespeare's time, not necessarily in a consistent way for all
> words. [Heck, it's changed noticeably during my lifetime, even for one
> speaker of what can be regarded as a standard form of English: there
> are recordings of how the Queen speaks for all years since the 1950s,
> and she certainly doesn't pronounce everything now the way she did in
> 1952, and words that rhymed in 1952 don't necessarily rhyme today (for
> example, in 1952 "Kenya" rhymed with "Slovenia", but it doesn't today.
Still does in the US (except there are 2 syllables in the rhyme, not
3)
> News broadcasts from the 1940s and earlier sound very different from
> modern ones.] So, when you say "no English teacher would accept",
Finally saw The King's Speech last week. They did a remarkably good
job recovering the RP of the 1930s. I must admit, though, that I
couldn't hear what the amateur theatricals director was objecting to
in Logue's accent during his Richard III speech.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> On Mar 13, 5:24 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ifr88.cnrs-mrs.fr>
> wrote:
>> On 2011-03-12
>> [ ... ]
>> News broadcasts from the 1940s and earlier sound very different from
>> modern ones.] So, when you say "no English teacher would accept",
>
> Finally saw The King's Speech last week. They did a remarkably good
> job recovering the RP of the 1930s. I must admit, though, that I
> couldn't hear what the amateur theatricals director was objecting to
> in Logue's accent during his Richard III speech.
Nor could I. I decided that that was the point: that the director knew
he was Australian and was imagining he could hear an Australian accent.
--
athel
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
In the other copula sentence pattern, we classify something as
something:
Is ainmhí é an cat. A cat (in Irish idiomatically, the cat) is an
animal.
Is spásaire é an Captaen Kirk. Cpt. Kirk is an astronaut, a spaceman.
Franz Gnaedinger
can be found in schoolbooks or even language learning
courses into my Magdalenian publishing thread, calling
it the only interesting thing in my thread via his presumed
Athel-Cornish Bowden alter ego, confirming what I say
about him. His weak inner identity left a hole at his core,
a void, a vacuum that demands to be filled, and is being
filled via his enormous vanity that seeks attention,
desperately so, and above all mine. His aggression
is paired with narcissism, both emenating from the
same cause. Experts on stalking say that one should
ignore a narcissistic stalker, but fight, and determinedly
so, an aggressive stalker. What is one supposed to do
about a both narcissistic a n d aggressive stalker?
-
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
> My stalker dropped another mini Irish lesson as they
> can be found in schoolbooks or even language learning
> courses into my Magdalenian publishing thread, calling
> it the only interesting thing in my thread via his presumed
> Athel-Cornish Bowden alter ego,
I see Athel has been officially declared to be another one of my
avatars. How many are there already?
Harlan Messinger
> Finally saw The King's Speech last week. They did a remarkably good
> job recovering the RP of the 1930s. I must admit, though, that I
> couldn't hear what the amateur theatricals director was objecting to
> in Logue's accent during his Richard III speech.
I thought it was that he didn't want his Richard III speaking as a
proper prig.
Peter T. Daniels
Well, that's silly! He did come from a good family, they know.
Harlan Messinger
> My stalker dropped another mini Irish lesson as they
> can be found in schoolbooks or even language learning
> courses into my Magdalenian publishing thread, calling
> it the only interesting thing in my thread via his presumed
> Athel-Cornish Bowden alter ego, confirming what I say
> about him. His weak inner identity left a hole at his core,
> a void, a vacuum that demands to be filled, and is being
> filled via his enormous vanity that seeks attention,
You've just described your own participation here.
> desperately so, and above all mine. His aggression
> is paired with narcissism,
What have I told you about your glass house? Everything about your use
of this newsgroup, and in particular your incessant going on about your
personal grievances, reeks of narcissism.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
<craoi...@gmail.com> said:
I doubt whether facts are of great interest to Franz, but if he cares
to google me he can readily confirm that I'm a real person posting
under a real name. I have never posted as Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta:
apart from anything else I wouldn't remember how to spell it, though no
doubt my computer could.
--
athel
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
> On 2011-03-14 09:31:56 +0100, F na Gaelach na nGleannta
> <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > On 14 maalis, 09:56, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> >> My stalker dropped another mini Irish lesson as they
> >> can be found in schoolbooks or even language learning
> >> courses into my Magdalenian publishing thread, calling
> >> it the only interesting thing in my thread via his presumed
> >> Athel-Cornish Bowden alter ego,
>
> > I see Athel has been officially declared to be another one of my
> > avatars. How many are there already?
>
> I doubt whether facts are of great interest to Franz, but if he cares
> to google me he can readily confirm that I'm a real person posting
> apart from anything else I wouldn't remember how to spell it, though no
> doubt my computer could.
> --
> athel
There is also the fact that you seem to be more than twenty years my
senior, and a biochemist (or something along those lines) rather than
a translator. I must say I am flattered to see Franz impute to me such
Satanic powers that I could indeed manage a plausible imposture of
someone such as you.
Franz Gnaedinger
three universities, he is now 44 or 45 years old,
and isn't even able to formulate a thought of his own,
all he can is drop some morsels of grammar from
a language learning course, his only contribution
being the choice of examples, here the first one
from his recent mini lesson in Irish that I find telling:
Is tusa mise. You are me.
Who is 'you' and 'me' ? You, Fánaí Gaelach
na nGleannta, are me, Panu Petteri Höglund?
or is he addressing me on another level and
declaring that now I am he, or rather that he
is now taking my place? My first stalker, on
the apex of his frenzy, had used my first
e-mail name for himself, turned himself
into me, or me into him, which told me that
he would like to be me, and apparently the
same is the case in the case of my second
stalker: he envies my freedom of mind and
wealth in ideas, I am running a Paleo-linguistic
experiment into the seventh year now, nobody
can refute my reconstructions, nobody goes
for my test cases, I can take it up with everybody,
so he has no other option than to annect my
publishing thread, unable to maintain one by
himself, on his own, for he has nothing to say,
having attended three universities, being 44 or
45 years old, unable of formulating a thought
of his own.
-
António Marques
I've wondered at times if this can be the source of another possible
hypothetical celticism of english. I find it evoking of the 'X is' tag -
_He's a loon, old Franz is_ - even though the syntaces bears little
resemblance to one another.
Harlan Messinger
> The copula shouldn't be followed by a definite noun. It must be
> "flanked" by a specially inserted pronoun.
>
> Is é Máirtín an múinteoir. Martin is the teacher.
> Is í Gobnait an scoláire. Dorothy is the scholar.
> Is í Bríd an mháistreás scoile. Bridget is the schoolmistress.
"Gobnait" = "Dorothy"?
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
> On 3/13/2011 5:32 AM, F na Gaelach na nGleannta wrote:
>
> > The copula shouldn't be followed by a definite noun. It must be
> > "flanked" by a specially inserted pronoun.
>
> > Is Gobnait an scol ire. Dorothy is the scholar.
> > Is Br d an mh istre s scoile. Bridget is the schoolmistress.
>
> "Gobnait" = "Dorothy"?
Yes. There are several Irish names that are perceived to be the
equivalents of certain English names by custom only.
Harlan Messinger
That is very weird. It reminds me of elementary school Spanish class,
when I understood why Janet was given the name Juanita and Jimmy was
called Jaime and Barry was squeezed into Bertito and Marina got to stick
with Marina, but wondered by what alchemy Kenny became Horacio and
Debbie became Pilar.
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta
wrote:
Well,. the phenomenon is more common than you'd think. In Polish,
Wojciech is the equivalent of the German name Adalbert, and there is
as far as I know no etymological explanation, it's just some kind of
tradition.
pauljk
news:e7a7e5cb-027e-4d6e...@t16g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
A large percentage of the contemporary West Slavic first names are
modern versions of old pre-christian pagan names. Since everybody
needed a protection of their saint patron there must have been a big
scramble for suitable names thousand years ago. The early Slavic
martyr saints made their names acceptable (e.g. originally pagan name
of my mother, Svatava), the rest by hook or crook had to be
equivalenced with some foreign saint's name.
The names with two or more versions I find particularly interesting
are the names in the same language where one of the versions made
a loop through different European languages. They are related equivalents
but the relationship is not at all obvious just by looking at them.
For example, the Czech person by the name of "Jozef" can be known
to his friends as "Pep�k". You can see the link when you consider
Spanish. Another pair is formal "Jan" and familiar "Honza",
obviously German "Johannes" > "Hans" > Czech "Honza".
pjk
Franz Gnaedinger
Everybody who got nothing to say feels at home in my
Magdalenian publishing thread. Made me really angry.
But then I looked at the situation from the other side.
If bloating and ruining my thread is the only way how
they can refute my Magdalenian approach and my
many bold reconstructions they are de facto conceding
that they lack scientific arguments, and so I might as
well celebrate the success of Magdalenian. Only that
there is nothing to celebrate now, considering what
goes on in Japan and Libya.
Harlan Messinger finds my etymology of bear as the
furry one more convinving that the PIE etymology of
bear as the brown one. Poor fellow. He needed two
years to admit so, and apologized ever since. Also
he asked two very good questions about the etymology
of lobby and about grains that made me discover the
vegetabile aspect of the Divine Hind from Altamira
and Lascaux. He is aware of his guilt in advancing
Magdalenian, and does his very best in repenting
by telling me all the time: No, it is not. I won't punish
him for bloating my thread, on the contrary, I declare
March 15 to be the Harlan Messinger Day in sci.lang.
Harlan Messinger has little to say about language
but he gets informative and eloquent when it comes
to computing, so I guess he is a programmer. His
reasoning is rather linear, going along with computing
that is also linear, approaching the non-linear by
carrying out vast numbers of linear operations on
electronical versions of mechanical devices à la
Pascal, Babbage and Zuse. My Magdalenian approach
to early language required neural computing, the way
the brain works. For the time being, neural networks
are simulated on von Neumann machines, on a small
scale, that is. I dare foretell that genuine artificial neural
networks will be available in fifteen or twenty years,
and release a bigger revolution in computing than
the transition from vacuum tubes to silicium transistors
that made the Apollo missions to the moon possible.
Vacuum tubes were still widely in use when I was a boy
(and took old radios apart), nowadays they are on display
in technology museums. The HM Day is an ideal honor
- no check, but an outprint of this message will grant
Harlan Messinger a showcase in the Smithsonian,
perhaps.
-