Irish Gaelic translation of my name
Nobody
websites and found it to be the Gaelic form of an English name (which
in turn was descended from this and that all the way back to it's
Latin and Hebrew roots).
Anyways, I was wondering if someone literally translated the meaning
of my name (God is gracious) into it's Irish Gaelic form, would it be
close to my name?
I will not say what my name is to keep the inquiry pure, but if
someone knows, please post with the translation.
Thank you.
Harlan Messinger
Dear Sean/Shawn/Siobhan/Sheena,
Since Irish isn't anything like Hebrew, why would the Irish
translation of "God is gracious" look anything like the Hebrew
translation of "God is gracious"?
--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.
Einde O'Callaghan
>
> sws...@suscom.net (Nobody) wrote:
>
> >I was looking at the meaning of my name on one of those "baby names"
> >websites and found it to be the Gaelic form of an English name (which
> >in turn was descended from this and that all the way back to it's
> >Latin and Hebrew roots).
> >
> >Anyways, I was wondering if someone literally translated the meaning
> >of my name (God is gracious) into it's Irish Gaelic form, would it be
> >close to my name?
> >
> >I will not say what my name is to keep the inquiry pure, but if
> >someone knows, please post with the translation.
>
> Dear Sean/Shawn/Siobhan/Sheena,
Siodhna, Sinead, Owen, Eoin, Ian, Ewan, Shane (there are probably
several more)
>
> Since Irish isn't anything like Hebrew, why would the Irish
> translation of "God is gracious" look anything like the Hebrew
> translation of "God is gracious"?
>
In modern Gaelic the closest possible structure would be the equivalent
of "gracious god" - "Diamánla" from "dia mánla" - but no such name
exists. Most recognisably pure Gaelic names (i.e. those that don't
derive from Hebrew, Greek, Latin or Germanic names) such as my own have
no obvious meaning in modern Gaelic as the names are very old and the
language has changed beyond recognition since it was first written down
in the 5th century.
The names, such as Brighid, Nuala, Eithne, Derbhla,, Adhamhnán, Conal,
Dara or my own Éinde, are even older and some may not even be of Celtic
origin. In various baby books I've come across several different
mutually exclusive interpretations of the "meaning" of various
anglicised forms my name.
Incidentally, a number of names that are assumed to be of Germanic or
Romance origin are actually Celtic in origin, e.g. Louis/Ludwig
originating from the Celtic god Lugh or Arthur.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Nobody
> sws...@suscom.net (Nobody) wrote:
>
> >I was looking at the meaning of my name on one of those "baby names"
> >websites and found it to be the Gaelic form of an English name (which
> >in turn was descended from this and that all the way back to it's
> >Latin and Hebrew roots).
> >
> >Anyways, I was wondering if someone literally translated the meaning
> >of my name (God is gracious) into it's Irish Gaelic form, would it be
> >close to my name?
> >
> >I will not say what my name is to keep the inquiry pure, but if
> >someone knows, please post with the translation.
>
> Dear Sean/Shawn/Siobhan/Sheena,
>
> Since Irish isn't anything like Hebrew, why would the Irish
> translation of "God is gracious" look anything like the Hebrew
> translation of "God is gracious"?
Well since you so quickly discovered my name (Shaun actually) :^).....
I'm not an etymologist, so I don't know the reasoning behind it, but
according to the site I was looking at (www.behindthename.com), Shaun
is the Anglicized form of SEAN, which is the Irish form of John, which
is the Biblical English form of Johannes, which was the Latin form of
the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan
meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". And of course YAHWEH meaning God, so
"God is gracious".
But that comes back to my original question, if "God is gracious" is
translated literally back into Irish Gaelic, how closely does it
resemble my name?
Toby OCM
"Nobody" <sws...@suscom.net> wrote in message
news:301e256b.02071...@posting.google.com...
> Well since you so quickly discovered my name (Shaun actually) :^).....
> I'm not an etymologist, so I don't know the reasoning behind it, but
> according to the site I was looking at (www.behindthename.com), Shaun
> is the Anglicized form of SEAN, which is the Irish form of John, which
> is the Biblical English form of Johannes, which was the Latin form of
> the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan
> meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". And of course YAHWEH meaning God, so
> "God is gracious".
>
> But that comes back to my original question, if "God is gracious" is
> translated literally back into Irish Gaelic, how closely does it
> resemble my name?
About as closely as 'God is gracious' resembles 'John', I'd imagine: i.e.
not at all.
But then why would it?
--
Regards,
Toby
----
Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realise they were
the big things
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release Date: 10/07/02
Jean Dufresne
I can't answer that question, but I guess the answer would just be "not
at all", unless by complete coincidence. How closely does the English
words "God is gracious" resemble the English name "John" or the Hebrew
word "Yochanan", and why would there be any more direct etymologic
connection between Hebrew and Gaelic than there is between Hebrew and
English? The name Shaun (BTW this is also my name, the french version
of it: Jean) has been adapted through different languages as you explain
above, but this has nothing at all to do with the ordinary derivation of
languages. I don't know Gaelic, but besides English I can also make the
exercise in French and arrive at the same conclusion that the phrase
"Dieu est bon" or "Dieu est aimable" (God is gracious) looks nothing
like the name "Jean". AFAIK, words of the Gaelic language are not
derived from Hebrew more than English words or French words, so at first
sight I can't see why the conclusion would be different in Gaelic.
--
Jean
Harlan Messinger
John Woodgate
<einde.oc...@planet-interkom.de> wrote (in
<3D341CC7...@planet-interkom.de>) about 'Irish Gaelic translation
of my name', on Tue, 16 Jul 2002:
>Incidentally, a number of names that are assumed to be of Germanic or
>Romance origin are actually Celtic in origin, e.g. Louis/Ludwig
>originating from the Celtic god Lugh or Arthur.
Do you have any sources for information on the pre-Celtic inhabitants? I
know there are a few place-names that are pre-Celtic and non-Indo-
Germanic, but very little else.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
John Woodgate
(in <301e256b.02071...@posting.google.com>) about 'Irish
Gaelic translation of my name', on Tue, 16 Jul 2002:
>But that comes back to my original question, if "God is gracious" is
>translated literally back into Irish Gaelic, how closely does it
>resemble my name?
Did you not see Einde O'Callaghan's post, from which I quote:
In modern Gaelic the closest possible structure would be the equivalent
of "gracious god" - "Diamánla" from "dia mánla" - but no such name
exists.
Chris H.
Many Hebrew name websites state that Yehokhanan or Yokhanan means "blessed
by Jehova". Does graciousness towards someone mean or imply a blessing? Any
ideas anyone?
Chris
--
Einde O'Callaghan
Not in the slightest - see my previous message.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Nobody
many things, and this was just one of those things I've wondered
about.
>Did you not see Einde O'Callaghan's post, from which I quote:
...
BTW, I am posting through Google Groups and the timing of the postings
is not immediate, hence I did not see the previous posts. But I thank
you, Einde et al for sharing your wisdom.
Alan Crozier
news:3D341CC7...@planet-interkom.de...
<snip>
> Incidentally, a number of names that are assumed to be of Germanic or
> Romance origin are actually Celtic in origin, e.g. Louis/Ludwig
> originating from the Celtic god Lugh or Arthur.
I doubt that, Einde. It would make the Old French form Clovis hard to
explain, likewise the Old German Chlodovech. There's a (now lost) consonant
before the l, which there never was in the name of Lugh. It is definitely a
Germanic
compound of hluða- (cf. Greek Klyto-) meaning famous ("heard of", related to
loud, OE hlud), and wig meaning "battle".
Alan
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Alan Crozier
Skatteberga 1392
247 92 Södra Sandby
Sweden
TO REPLY BY E-MAIL: change Crazier to Crozier
Alan Crozier
> many things, and this was just one of those things I've wondered
> about.
So what is your name, Nobody?
Einde O'Callaghan
>
> "Einde O'Callaghan" <einde.oc...@planet-interkom.de> wrote in message
> news:3D341CC7...@planet-interkom.de...
> <snip>
>
> > Incidentally, a number of names that are assumed to be of Germanic or
> > Romance origin are actually Celtic in origin, e.g. Louis/Ludwig
> > originating from the Celtic god Lugh or Arthur.
>
> I doubt that, Einde. It would make the Old French form Clovis hard to
> explain, likewise the Old German Chlodovech. There's a (now lost) consonant
> before the l, which there never was in the name of Lugh. It is definitely a
> Germanic
> loud, OE hlud), and wig meaning "battle".
>
and cities that are called after Lugh, e.g. Lyons. I have, however,
always felt that there was a link between the Gaelic form "Lughaidh" and
the Celtic "Lugh".
On the other hand, "Brigitte", "Brigitta" "Birgit" and the numerous
variants thereof are definitely all derived from the Celtic goddess
"Brighid", probably through Irish, Scottish or Manx bondswomen taken by
the Vikings.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Jean Dufresne
>
> I have, however,
> always felt that there was a link between the Gaelic form "Lughaidh" and
> the Celtic "Lugh".
Is Lughaid really a variant form of Hlodovic, or could it simply be a
different name?
--
Jean
Einde O'Callaghan
same way - the French way not "Lewis".
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Rain Forests
> Perhaps you're right. But there are definitely a number of French
> towns and cities that are called after Lugh, e.g. Lyons. I have,
> however, always felt that there was a link between the Gaelic form
> "Lughaidh" and the Celtic "Lugh".
>
>
celts were all over Europe, and still there is some regions in France were a
celtic/gaelic dialect is spoken (britonny).
In the toponymy, you find a lot of trace of our celtic ancestors.
Rain Forests
>
> Well since you so quickly discovered my name (Shaun actually) :^).....
> I'm not an etymologist, so I don't know the reasoning behind it, but
> according to the site I was looking at (www.behindthename.com), Shaun
> is the Anglicized form of SEAN, which is the Irish form of John, which
> is the Biblical English form of Johannes, which was the Latin form of
> the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan
> meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". And of course YAHWEH meaning God, so
> "God is gracious".
I agree that John is coming from hebrew through greek and latin, but Sean is
not etymologically related to John even if it is the translation (so having
the same meaning). It is quite clear that they are not letters in comon and
I don't see how John could transform itself into Sean or other related
name... So I guess Sean is related to John by its meaning only... it is the
Irish form for John, doesn't mean it is etimologically coming from John...
Jean Dufresne
I think the important thing is the similarity in pronunciation, not the
letters. I guess names would have been transmitted orally, with their
variations and evolutions, and transcribed, when they were, in the
manner that seemed most appriate for each language.
--
Jean
James Lee
I agree that John is coming from hebrew through greek and latin, but Sean is
not etymologically related to John even if it is the translation (so having
the same meaning). It is quite clear that they are not letters in comon and
I don't see how John could transform itself into Sean or other related
name... So I guess Sean is related to John by its meaning only... it is the
Irish form for John, doesn't mean it is etimologically coming from John...
James Lee replied:
The pronunciation of 'Sean' is very close to the French 'Jean'. There is a
whole spectrum of pronunciations of the same name that vary slightly across
Europe, although the spelling can differ: Juan, Jean, Jan, Yan, Ian etc.
There are also versions that are a little closer to Hebrew: Johan, Giovanni
etc.
With respect to the meaning, there are several German names that come close:
Gottlieb etc. (This looks like God's Love, but is probably God's Heir).
There is also a family name Gottsegen (God's blessing).
Toby OCM
> I agree that John is coming from hebrew through greek and latin, but Sean
is
> not etymologically related to John even if it is the translation (so
having
> the same meaning). It is quite clear that they are not letters in comon
and
> I don't see how John could transform itself into Sean or other related
> name... So I guess Sean is related to John by its meaning only... it is
the
> Irish form for John, doesn't mean it is etimologically coming from John...
The similarity between Sean and John is much closer than the similarity
between William and Guillaume.
--
Regards,
Toby
----
Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realise they were
the big things
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 15/07/02
Alan Crozier
news:ah5mp2$9p1$2...@news.brutele.be...
>
> >
>
> I agree that John is coming from hebrew through greek and latin, but Sean
is
> not etymologically related to John even if it is the translation (so
having
> the same meaning). It is quite clear that they are not letters in comon
and
> I don't see how John could transform itself into Sean or other related
> name... So I guess Sean is related to John by its meaning only... it is
the
> Irish form for John, doesn't mean it is etimologically coming from John...
I think Irish Seán might well come from English John, being the closest
possible Gaelic approximation to the pronunciation. It could also come from
the French Jean. In any case it's a relatively modern name in Irish. A much
older variant of John, coming directly from Latin Johannes, is Eoin or
Eoghan.
Einde O'Callaghan
Actually Sean and John are etymologically realted. Compare the
Pronunciation of the French "Jean" and the Gaelic "Seán". "Jean" is also
etymologically to "John" as again the pronunciation shows. The name was
introduced into both england and Ireland by French-speaking Normans.
Actually the original Gaelic form of the name is written "Owen" in
English and is obviously related to "Joannes".
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Laura E. Czeschick
Can you explain why Sean is also the feminine form of the name? I mean, the
orchestra conductor Sean Edwards is definitely a woman. Or is there another
feminine form besides this one?
Laura
Laura E. Czeschick
> "Rain Forests" wrote:
> I agree that John is coming from hebrew through greek and latin, but
> Sean is not etymologically related to John even if it is the
> translation (so having the same meaning). It is quite clear that they
> are not letters in comon and I don't see how John could transform
> itself into Sean or other related name... So I guess Sean is related
> to John by its meaning only... it is the Irish form for John, doesn't
> mean it is etimologically coming from John...
>
> James Lee replied:
> The pronunciation of 'Sean' is very close to the French 'Jean'.
> There is a whole spectrum of pronunciations of the same name that
> vary slightly across Europe, although the spelling can differ: Juan,
> Jean, Jan, Yan, Ian etc. There are also versions that are a little
> closer to Hebrew: Johan, Giovanni etc.
> With respect to the meaning, there are several German names that come
> close: Gottlieb etc.
What are your "etc."-names? I just can't think of any.
(This looks like God's Love, but is probably
> God's Heir).
I always understood it means He who is dear to God. Like, IIRC, slavic
Bogumir.
There is also a family name Gottsegen (God's blessing).
True, but I don't quite get your idea; how is this related to Johannes/Sean
etc. like discussed in this thread?
Laura
Toby OCM
"Laura E. Czeschick" <Laura.C...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:ah664a$mt5$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> Can you explain why Sean is also the feminine form of the name? I mean,
the
> orchestra conductor Sean Edwards is definitely a woman. Or is there
another
> feminine form besides this one?
Because Americans are happy to use male names for girls (another example is
the appalling actress Sean Young).
They also call their children after surnames (e.g. Mackenzie) and large
trucks (Tipper Gore).
Laura E. Czeschick
> "Laura E. Czeschick" <Laura.C...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:ah664a$mt5$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
>> Can you explain why Sean is also the feminine form of the name? I
>> mean, the orchestra conductor Sean Edwards is definitely a woman. Or
>> is there another feminine form besides this one?
>
> Because Americans are happy to use male names for girls (another
> example is the appalling actress Sean Young).
> They also call their children after surnames (e.g. Mackenzie) and
> large trucks (Tipper Gore).
>
>
>
Sorry, I made a mistake. The correct spelling of her name is Sian Edwards.
Does this look more feminine? (I'm not sure, but I don't think she is
American.)
Laura
Harlan Messinger
>
>"Laura E. Czeschick" <Laura.C...@t-online.de> wrote in message
>news:ah664a$mt5$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
>> Can you explain why Sean is also the feminine form of the name?
It isn't, not in Irish.
> I mean,
>the
>> orchestra conductor Sean Edwards is definitely a woman. Or is there
>another
>> feminine form besides this one?
>
>Because Americans are happy to use male names for girls (another example is
>the appalling actress Sean Young).
Also, Michael Learned (the mother on The Waltons, also played a nurse
on the series Nurse), Christopher Norris (a nurse on Trapper John,
MD), Michael Michele (a doctor on ER). Funny how they all wind up in
the medical profession. Hmm, Sean Young played a doctor in Young
Doctors in Love....
>They also call their children after surnames (e.g. Mackenzie) and large
>trucks (Tipper Gore).
LOL.
Rain Forests
>
> James Lee replied:
> The pronunciation of 'Sean' is very close to the French 'Jean'.
> There is a whole spectrum of pronunciations of the same name that
> vary slightly across Europe, although the spelling can differ: Juan,
> Jean, Jan, Yan, Ian etc. There are also versions that are a little
> closer to Hebrew: Johan, Giovanni etc.
letters in the language and their prononouciation...
> With respect to the meaning, there are several German names that come
> close: Gottlieb etc. (This looks like God's Love, but is probably
> God's Heir). There is also a family name Gottsegen (God's blessing).
Gottlieb is the German version of Amadeus (see Mozart whose name was
Wolfgang Gottlieb, which name he changes in Amadeus : meaning : he is loved
by God or God's beloved or something like that
Rain Forests
>
> Actually Sean and John are etymologically realted. Compare the
> Pronunciation of the French "Jean" and the Gaelic "Seán". "Jean" is
> also etymologically to "John" as again the pronunciation shows. The
> name was introduced into both england and Ireland by French-speaking
> Normans.
>
> Actually the original Gaelic form of the name is written "Owen" in
> English and is obviously related to "Joannes".
>
> Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
When you hear the pronounciation of that name, it is true that it seems more
related.
maybe the name was created with those letters, because it
was the most similar pronouciation and writing possible... like the greek
letter "upsilon" that was pronounced "i" by the latins...
Rain Forests
>
> The similarity between Sean and John is much closer than the
> similarity between William and Guillaume.
G and W are the same letters in the Indo-European root, you can see that in
different IE languages the words with the same root is written either with G
either with W / actually we don't know the exact original pronounciation of
that letter, but probably in between... so as any language it has evoluted
differently in each region
then the u is just to pronounced the G hard then au is coming from al (see
the Dutch name Wilhelm or Wilhelmine (feminine form) where the a has become
e but the l is there) you also see in old French Guilhelm and in Italian
Guglielmo, so the English name has lost is l after a (originately it may
have been Willialm. the l probably diseppear because of the difficulty of
pronounciation... So both are very recognisable and vary only by two letters
really...
Laura E. Czeschick
Amadé, to be exact. Mozart himself never signed Amadeus, it was always
Amadé.
Laura
Toby OCM
Judging by her corrected name, I'd say she's Welsh: Sian is a Welsh girl's
name (pronounced Sharn, whereas Sean in pronounced Shorn), and Edwards is a
common Welsh surname.
Einde O'Callaghan
Gaelic equivalent is "Siobhán", pronounced roughly "Shivaun" with the
emphasis on the second syllable.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Einde O'Callaghan
to the fact that the origins of the name John are in a Hebrew phrase
meaning "God is gracious".
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
James Lee
Laura E. Czeschik replied: True, but I don't quite get your idea; how is
this related to Johannes/Sean etc. like discussed in this thread?
Einde O'Callaghan replied: "Grace" can be a synonym for "blessing" and the
original poster referred to the fact that the origins of the name John are
in a Hebrew phrase meaning "God is gracious".
Jame Lee replied: Thank you, Einde, for your succint reply: that's exactly
what I meant.
James Lee
etc. (This looks like God's Love, but is probably God's Heir).
Laura E. Czeschick wrote: ' I always understood it means He who is dear to
God. Like, IIRC, slavic Bogumir.
AIUI, 'Gottlieb' comes from Old High German 'Gottliep' (God's Heir).
However, as 'Liep' has no meaning in modern German, the name became
'Gottlieb'). With respect to the etc., there are least a dozen German first
names suggesting a special relationship with God: 'Gottbert, Gottfried, etc.
Laura E. Czeschick
> "Laura E. Czeschick" <Laura.C...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:ah68hh$m5b$02$1...@news.t-online.com...
>> Toby OCM wrote:
>>> "Laura E. Czeschick" <Laura.C...@t-online.de> wrote in message
>>> news:ah664a$mt5$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
>>>> Can you explain why Sean is also the feminine form of the name? I
>>>> mean, the orchestra conductor Sean Edwards is definitely a woman.
>>>> Or is there another feminine form besides this one?
>>>
>>> Because Americans are happy to use male names for girls (another
>>> example is the appalling actress Sean Young).
>>> They also call their children after surnames (e.g. Mackenzie) and
>>> large trucks (Tipper Gore).
>>>
>>>
>>> Toby
>>>
>> Sorry, I made a mistake. The correct spelling of her name is Sian
>> Edwards. Does this look more feminine? (I'm not sure, but I don't
>> think she is American.)
>
> Judging by her corrected name, I'd say she's Welsh: Sian is a Welsh
> girl's name (pronounced Sharn, whereas Sean in pronounced Shorn), and
> Edwards is a common Welsh surname.
>
German radio speakers, they pronounced her name as rhyming with Brian, but
at present she's "Shorn".
Laura
Laura E. Czeschick
All fallen very very obsolete, fortunately ...
Laura
John Woodgate
<Laura.C...@t-online.de> wrote (in <ah8ue3$9ri$00$1@news.t-
online.com>) about 'Irish Gaelic translation of my name', on Fri, 19 Jul
2002:
>When Sian Edwards was new to
>German radio speakers, they pronounced her name as rhyming with Brian, but
>at present she's "Shorn".
The 'a' should be 'ā', and is very long and open, as in 'Saar' -
'Shaan'.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!