Are Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Devices Real?

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Are Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Devices Real?

By Alainco admin
LENR for the Win
June 2 , 2013

Why should one believe that Low Energy Nuclear Reaction
(LENR) devices and the E-Cat in particular are real and
not a scam, hoax, delusion, mistake or some other
manifestation of malevolence or ignorance? �To best
answer that question one must explore it in multiple
dimensions: �science, engineering, business and social.
There will be points and counterpoints and you must weigh
the evidence yourself. �But let�s start off with a few
key definitions.

Definitions

COP (or coefficient of performance) - simply means energy
out divided by energy in. �Conventional hot fusion
research has struggled to achieve a COP of 1.0 despite
decades of work and hundreds of billions of dollars. �The
idea is that when you get a COP of more than one you have
an endless supply of energy (ignoring engineering
limitations and conversion losses). �The term is
overloaded a bit; it is also used in the heating/cooling
industry to describe devices that can extract or transfer
energy from their environment like heat pumps, which can
have a COP of over 3. �But when talking about fundamental
energy release from nuclear reactions, COP > 1.0 is the
holy grail. � �

Many who observe this field make a distinction between
LENR and LENR+, where the plus signifies massive energy
gains. �LENR is garden variety anomalous energy, tricky
to measure and often hard to reliably reproduce (think
COP some small percentage over 1). �LENR+ describes
healthy multiples of energy out over energy in (e.g., COP
= 6).

E-Cat: �the device created by Andrea Rossi of Leonardo
Corp. that is purported to have a COP of at least 6. �We
are told it works with nickel powder, some hydrogen, an
undisclosed catalyst and an electrical waveform input to
drive the reaction and help control its stability.

Science

Continues at:

https://sites.google.com/site/lenrforthewin/home/are-low-energy-nuclear-reaction-devices-real

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj

[hab...@anony.net]

Ten years from now Jyotish will still be posting articles
about anamolous heat output , all of a few milliwatts!
It is all fakery. If it was true Rossi would be putting out
ten times the energy he inputs into the grid and making billions.

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:

Conclusion 

Claims of a conspiracy amongst so many respected
scientists are laughable, starting with Dr. Focardi and
ending with the latest independent testers.  Claims of
delusion and incompetence rely on assertions that
skilled, experienced scientists and engineers have
botched energy measurements by a factor of three or more,
over and over, using different techniques. Claims of
fraud or scam are reduced to assertions of almost
unfathomable trickery and coordination that has fooled
hundreds over many occasions and requires prescience on
the part of and contradicts the actual behavior of the
supposed scammers. 

The LENR phenomenon is supported by many observations
reported in peer-reviewed scientific papers.  LENR+ is
supported by some less conclusive science but also by
compelling engineering, business and social evidence.
The claims of Rossi and Defkalion in the LENR+ field are
extraordinary and would have dramatic impact on quality
of life and the world’s economy and politics.  The recent
publication of a report of independent 3rd party tests of
the E-Cat LENR+ technology is a dramatic and nearly
definitive blow in favor of the veracity of these
remarkable claims about the E-Cat and LENR+ as it
simultaneously confirmed the extraordinary assertions
about the technology and that Rossi was telling the truth
about having 3rd party scientists conduct an independent
black box test of his E-Cats.

The situation brings to mind the famous Sherlock Holmes
quote: “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever
remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”  The
crux of the matter here is that we have been left with
two very improbable possibilities:  that LENR+, the E-Cat
and the Hyperion work despite what we thought was settled
physics, or Rossi et. al. are in the midst of performing
a scam of a scope never before observed.  Those who
“believe” in LENR+ have concluded that the scam
hypothesis has become a virtual impossibility, and
therefore we are on the verge of a new energy era.
Skeptics believe the opposite, rejecting any “unknown”
physics and seeing enough indications of a scam to
conclude that it is LENR+ that is impossible and the
improbable scam is the real explanation.   

You must, of course, weigh the points and counterpoints
yourself.  Decide which you think more likely, blend them
together and form an opinion.  Please treat with respect
those who follow the same thoughtful approach even if
they reach a different conclusion.  Reserve your contempt
for those who refuse to carefully weigh all the evidence
-- especially that evidence which argues against their
chosen position.   It is better to have a strong mind
than strong beliefs.

[benj]

No question, Habshi, if anyone wants to learn what is "true" in science
they need look no further than your "science" posts!

Still an idiot.

[benj]

Jai, you have tried to formulate this subject as some kind of debate of
"belief", but Sherlock Holmes is the best approach. Why?

1. LENR is a "forbidden topic" in science. Why? Hint: What would be the
effect on the "energy industry" (and resultant control of civilization
which runs on energy) if any form of "free enegy" were made easily
available. Political implications are staggering.

2. It's worst than that. LENR alchemy has been scientifically
demonstrated beyond doubt. Now think of the implications on the current
world economy if valuable elements (gold, platinum, silver, rare earths
etc.) were to suddenly become essentially free in any quantity.

3. LENR is known to be a solution for eliminating nuclear waste allowing
the use of bomb materials for vast amounts of energy without build-up of
nasty waste. What are the implications of that to oil and coal
industries?

4. Since all currency is essentially backed by OIL, any leak of the above
technology would totally destroy the current economic system and the
power of those who control it.

5. From this it is clearly obvious that given that those currently in
power in the world are NOT stupid (no, they are not, no matter how much
they pretend to be) it is clear that their Job One is to SMASH any and
all hints that LENR are real. Since morality is not something they do,
one can assume that their methodology will be that of "evolution of
species".

Get it, Dr. Jay?

[alie...@gmail.com]

Nah, somebody still has to build the things and distribution grids
need maintenance. It isn't "free" any more than solar or wind power.
Now, if it could be simplified so I could build one to run my home off-
grid...

> 2. It's worst than that. LENR alchemy has been scientifically
> demonstrated beyond doubt. Now think of the implications on the current
> world economy if valuable elements (gold, platinum, silver, rare earths
> etc.) were to suddenly become essentially free in any quantity.

No big deal except to the artificially inflated jewelry "economy".
Easily synthesized gemstones really didn't affect it.

Has nobody else wondered why the African gold and diamond mines
weren't nationalized after the great South African revolution?

> 3. LENR is known to be a solution for eliminating nuclear waste allowing
> the use of bomb materials for vast amounts of energy without build-up of
> nasty waste. What are the implications of that to oil and coal
> industries?

None, really, since oil and gas producers have been cross-investing
in other energy technologies as they come up.

> 4. Since all currency is essentially backed by OIL, any leak of the above
> technology would totally destroy the current economic system and the
> power of those who control it.

Destroy OPEC? Works for me.

> 5. From this it is clearly obvious that given that those currently in
> power in the world are NOT stupid (no, they are not, no matter how much
> they pretend to be) it is clear that their Job One is to SMASH any and
> all hints that LENR are real. Since morality is not something they do,
> one can assume that their methodology will be that of "evolution of
> species".

Nah, "evolution of investment". That's why the originators of the
various East India Companies cross-invested in other "third world"
labor markets.


Mark L. Fergerson

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Forwarded post:

I wish some US entrepreneur with deep pockets would give
LENR a serious look. Someone like Elon Musk, or the like,
it would give some validity to the research. While I may
disagree with some Musk's political positions, he is a
smart son-of-a-gun.

Until Rossi name is removed from the research, it will
not gain any traction in the science academics world.

- DYngbld

End of forwarded post.

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Forwarded post:

The way I view Rossi is that he isn’t a scientist, he’s
an engineer. He’s not doing research. What he’s doing is
outside of academic science, he’s doing it for the money.
So he may just end up being the guy with the deep pockets
in LENR if he sells devices (like he’s claiming to do).

The independent testing the Ecat was subjected to lends
credence to Rossi’s claim that he actually has something
that could be shipped to paying customers, rather than
the other way around. Until proof is generated, it is an
inductive pursuit. The latest round of inductive evidence
lands in Rossi’s favor rather than the ever-widening
conspiracy theorist’s favor.

- Kevmo

[benj]

On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 14:15:32 -0700, nu...@bid.nes wrote:

> Nah, somebody still has to build the things and distribution grids
> need maintenance. It isn't "free" any more than solar or wind power.
> Now, if it could be simplified so I could build one to run my home off-
> grid...

Light bulb lights over your head! I think you are getting it.

>> 2. It's worst than that. LENR alchemy has been scientifically
>> demonstrated beyond doubt. Now think of the implications on the current
>> world economy if valuable elements (gold, platinum, silver, rare earths
>> etc.) were to suddenly become essentially free in any quantity.
>
> No big deal except to the artificially inflated jewelry "economy".
> Easily synthesized gemstones really didn't affect it.

Yes, but prices were kept artificially high just like natural ones. Note
that Gold, platinum etc. are wonderful engineering materials.

> Has nobody else wondered why the African gold and diamond mines
> weren't nationalized after the great South African revolution?

Good question. The answer to which leads on into places they are not
supposed to look.

>> 3. LENR is known to be a solution for eliminating nuclear waste
>> allowing the use of bomb materials for vast amounts of energy without
>> build-up of nasty waste. What are the implications of that to oil and
>> coal industries?
>
> None, really, since oil and gas producers have been cross-investing
> in other energy technologies as they come up.

They try, but their vision of one of central control. You've already
figured out what they're scared of.

>> 4. Since all currency is essentially backed by OIL, any leak of the
>> above technology would totally destroy the current economic system and
>> the power of those who control it.
>
> Destroy OPEC? Works for me.

You do know of curse that the U.S. is an OPEC member, right?

>> 5. From this it is clearly obvious that given that those currently in
>> power in the world are NOT stupid (no, they are not, no matter how much
>> they pretend to be) it is clear that their Job One is to SMASH any and
>> all hints that LENR are real. Since morality is not something they do,
>> one can assume that their methodology will be that of "evolution of
>> species".
>
> Nah, "evolution of investment". That's why the originators of the
> various East India Companies cross-invested in other "third world" labor
> markets.

Evolution of investment all right. War in Afghanistan shows that. Not
much has changed since the opium wars, has it? A few (first) names,
maybe.

[hab...@anony.net]

Careful Beni, Jyotish will miss the irony and sarcasm in your post
and he will think you have fallen for the lnr scam

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Forwarded post:

Agreed he is an engineer, and I will not doubt his
intelligence. I really don't know that much about him.
Everything that comes up about him is full of fraud, some
perceived, some proven. So his credibility is rightly
questioned. He is in a catch 22 situation. He potentially
has the greatest energy device in the world, and no one
creditable will give him the time of day. If he gives up
the "magic" in the box, to prove he not loony, he may
loose all rights to the technology.

All the "independent" testing I have seen all end up
being someone who is affiliated with Rossi in some
fashion. I will admit I have not looked into all the
testing, but the ones I have are questionable. It is a
tough one for sure, he is trying to disprove our
understanding of the laws of physics, by getting more out
then put in.

I for one would love to see this operate, and wish I had
the ability to see one up close and personal. I will
remain open to the idea that one day I will be able to
put one in my camper and not need to buy fuel ever again.
Real independent testing, by a real US lab would speak
volumes to many.

- DYngbld

End of forwarded post.

[benj]

On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 23:10:58 +0000, habshi wrote:

> Careful Beni, Jyotish will miss the irony and sarcasm in your post and
> he will think you have fallen for the lnr scam

Bad news Habshi. You invented irony and sarcasm where there was none.

LENR are real. Still an idiot.

:-)

[benj]

On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 23:14:19 +0000, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:

> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>>
>> > > > Are Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Devices Real?

> I for one would love to see this operate, and wish I had the ability to
> see one up close and personal. I will remain open to the idea that one
> day I will be able to put one in my camper and not need to buy fuel ever
> again.

> Real independent testing, by a real US lab would speak volumes to many.
>
> - DYngbld

> End of forwarded post.

Bad news folks. I can assure you all that real independent testing by a
real US lab is the ONE thing that will NEVER happen so long as those in
power are drawing breath. If you want to learn more, go look up previous
energy devices that "disappeared". You people really have to stop
trusting people in authority! Remember the Hippie bumper sticker?
Question Authority?

[1treePetrifiedForestLane]

many seem to take it on faith, that
"catalyzing" nuclear raections is implausible, even though
there is no complete picture of atoms per se,
viz Schroedinger's joke (kat).

I say that Pons & Fleischman could have
had a spurious result, but a real one, because
they did not take into account the cost of mining "pure" paladium,
which may be completely spent (in the long term)
by the nuclear catalysis.

> LENR are real.

[benj]

I say Pons an Fleischman could have had a spurious result, but a real
one, but failed to take into account the POLITICAL interest of those in
power in what they were doing. Big mistake.

[1treePetrifiedForestLane]

yeah; whatiff othercountries builtgiantnuclearplants
thatwereactuallycatalyzedfusion;
what'd they do with the rest of the space

> Big mistake.

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Forwarded post:

[ Are Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Devices Real?

Do people understand what it would mean to big government
and the selfish tyrants of political power if people had
the ability to power their homes and all their needs with
indiviual units that they owned themselves and which
needed little maintenance or fuel?

Such devices can never be allowed to be real.

- Lancey Howard

[benj]

I believe you'll find that "other countries" do as they are told.

If you don't, well, "shit happens".

[1treePetrifiedForestLane]

that depends upon your "theyTM,
giving the God-am orders, and that is why
they do things "underground (N.Korea e.g.

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Forwarded post:

[ "Rossi needed to make his long con look believable, so
[ he started out by crafting a plausible creation story."

Heh! So not only is Rossi the greatest scammer of all
time, he is a better writer than J.R.R.Tolkien.

Article long but good. I could wish that they had touched
a bit more on the science background, but that's just me.

For those wishing to learn more, I recommend Charles
Beaudette's book "Excess Heat" for an excellent start on
the topic of LENR. He also covers some of the science,
and some of the science pathologies and personalities
that caused the original Pons and Fleischmann work to be
denigrated. The book is somewhat dated, as it only covers
research up to (I think) 2005.

Not quite as good, but available free on-line, is Ed
Storms "Students Guide to Cold Fusion" (pdf).

After that, Storm's college-level text, but like all
college texts, it is "not cheap". Much more focussed on
the science than Beaudette, but can overwhelm with
detail. If you're not a dedicated bibliophile, probably
best to access this through interlibrary loan.

Both of these books should be augmented by forays into
the LENR-CANR bibliography of publications, which is a
very thorough source for pretty much everything seriously
published about the science of LENR. Full papers are
there if copyright allows them to be reproduced in such a
venue. If not, there are summaries and complete
references as to where those papers can be accessed.

- Wonder Warthog

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

Not so. The only one with such an affiliation is Focardi.
The major sin of all the rest is that they didn't
automatically deny the reality of what they saw based on
its disagreement with existing theory. But the above idea
is certainly what the anti-LENR cabal (and there is one)
want you to think.

[1treePetrifiedForestLane]

question bumperstickers, two. do you remember the N-machine?

> Question Authority?