Means of dropping watch battery voltage by .2 Volts
D
dated, electronics background. I have several early '60's vintage
Bulova Accutron wristwatches. These watches operate using a very basic
oscillator circuit which energizes a tuning fork via a pair of coils.
The tuning fork then drives the mechanical movement of the timepiece. A
basic description can be found here:
http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium631672882451976629
These are very cool watches to the collector. They are stylistically
very much of their era, and because of the tuning forks, they hum,
rather than tick. The problem is, these watches were originally
designed to run on a 1.35 volt mercury oxide cell (343) which is no
longer available. There is a 1.55v silver cell which will fit, but it
can cause some Accutrons to run very fast, and possibly even damage
them. At least one supplier sells modified cells with a component to
drop the cell's voltage to 1.35 volts. I think this is accomplished
with a surface mount type diode. Here's a thread on these cells in a
watch discussion, with pictures of the component added
http://bdwf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75397 I would like to simply
insert an appropriate diode into the circuit of the watches as a one
time modification, after which I can use the much cheaper/readily
available silver cells. But, as I said, my electronic component
knowledge is late 70's vintage, so I'm not sure what component to add. I
know in general silicon diodes have a forward voltage drop on .7V,
germaniums, .3V, so I'm not sure how to produce .2V. A zener? A
Schottky? Anyone have any suggestions on what would lower the output
of the 1.55 volt cells to 1.35 volts, over the life of the cell? It
would have to be fairly small, about 1/2 the size of a 1/4 watt
resistor, or less.
TIA
Dan
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> I am a watch collector & repairer. I also have a fair, though somewhat
> dated, electronics background. I have several early '60's vintage
> Bulova Accutron wristwatches. These watches operate using a very basic
> oscillator circuit which energizes a tuning fork via a pair of coils.
> The tuning fork then drives the mechanical movement of the timepiece. A
> basic description can be found here:
> http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium631672882451976629
Is there a hearing aid battery that will fit? They are listed as 1.4 volts,
but work fine in everything that uses them that I have heard of.
The only problem with them is that they need air to activate and once
opened dry out. In a watch, where the current draw is low, they would
probably last 3 to 6 months depending upon where you live.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Making your enemy reliant on software you support is the best revenge.
Sylvia Else
The forward voltage drop is more a rule of thumb approximation than a
physical reality. A diode's current versus voltage graph is a continuous
exponential curve, with the actual forward voltage drop being a function
of current.
I'd have thought these watches would draw a pretty much constant
current, knowing which would allow a resistor to be used.
Sylvia.
mike
but starting may...or may not...be an issue. Don't forget to check it
over temperature. Yes, the arm is a quite stable environment, but
some people take their watch off occasionally.
For fun I stuck an old HP 5082 Schottky diode on the curve tracer.
200mV at 10uA.
I'd look at the spec sheets for modern SMT diodes and find one that
has the right voltage at the required current.
Phil Allison
"D"
** A Germanium diode has a 0.2 volts drop at low currents - eg sub 1mA.
SMD versions must be made by someone.
But do you know any voltage drop is really NEEDED ??
... Phil
William Sommerwerck
news:97ip3p...@mid.individual.net...
> But do you know [whether] any voltage drop is really NEEDED?
Gee, Phil, I thought you were omniscient.
Though you'd think the mechanical nature of the Accutron's timekeeping
process would remove any interaction with the electronics, it's not so.
The user manual specifically states that the watch runs a bit fast with new
cells, until their initially slightly high voltage "settles in" to its
nominal value. Therefore, an Accutron will run fast with modern cells.
Gareth Magennis
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iv1k8c$aoh$2...@dont-email.me...
What a crap design then.
Gareth.
William Sommerwerck
news:vW%Qp.24258$Rw7....@newsfe28.ams2...
How old are you?
The Accutron was designed 50 years ago. It uses a discrete circuit, which
seemed rather marvelously miniature at the time. And the Accutron was the
first wristwatch accurate to a minute a month -- quite an achievement for a
"crap" design.
Reinhard Zwirner
> "Gareth Magennis" <sound....@btconnect.com> wrote in message
[...]
>> What a crap design then.
>
> How old are you?
>
> The Accutron was designed 50 years ago. It uses a discrete circuit, which
> seemed rather marvelously miniature at the time. And the Accutron was the
> first wristwatch accurate to a minute a month -- quite an achievement for a
> "crap" design.
FACK!
<http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/acc.htm>
Reinhard
Meat Plow
I own a solid gold 1965 Accutron. My jeweler has a device he lays the
watch on, it listens to the mechanism and tells you how much the movement
is off time. He was able to adjust mine down all the way to about 30
seconds a month fast. I have no suggestion other than his suggestion that
there may be a retro-fit tuning fork out these somewhere. This was around
2004.
Do some research, you may be able to find a fix. I wouldn't screw with it
myself, that stuff is awful delicate.
--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse
D
n Accutron will run fast with modern cells.
>
>> What a crap design then.
I'm afraid your ignorance is showing.
>
> How old are you?
>
> The Accutron was designed 50 years ago. It uses a discrete circuit, which
> seemed rather marvelously miniature at the time. And the Accutron was the
> first wristwatch accurate to a minute a month -- quite an achievement for a
> "crap" design.
>
>
Thanks for that, Bill. The design is quite elegant, with the ruby
tipped tuning fork tines operating a micro-toothed wheel. That, the
fact that it hums rather than ticks, and that the sweep second hand
moves smoothly like an AC clock. Very unique concept. The design was
also used in a marine chronometer for navigating longitude, which
requires high accuracy
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/explore/object.cfm?ID=ZAA0275. They
were also used in space, with the first Accutron timepiece sent up
aboard the Vanguard 1 satellite, which achieved orbit on March 17, 1958
(5 months before I was born). Very cool, but ya know, some people will
probably not get it, not to mention being rude enough to pointlessly
dismiss with the word "crap" something another person is sincerely
interested in.
Kids.
Here's more on the Accutron & space exploration, etc:
http://accutron.org/214/aerospace.htm
Here's a pic of one of my own Accutrons.
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb342/Yergen/AAlpha.jpg An "Alpha"
from 1961. Solid 14Kt gold. Now tell me that's not a cool looking
timepiece. ;-)
The effect of the silver cells varies from watch to watch, and there
have been cases of the movement being damaged by the extra voltage. I'd
prefer not to take that risk.
Dan
D
>
> I own a solid gold 1965 Accutron. My jeweler has a device he lays the
> watch on, it listens to the mechanism and tells you how much the movement
> is off time. He was able to adjust mine down all the way to about 30
> seconds a month fast. I have no suggestion other than his suggestion that
> there may be a retro-fit tuning fork out these somewhere. This was around
> 2004.
>
> Do some research, you may be able to find a fix. I wouldn't screw with it
> myself, that stuff is awful delicate.
>
>
>
Thanks MP. I've worked on a lot of watches, so that part doesn't
trouble me, I just want to find the ideal way of dropping the voltage.
It is possible to adjust the action of the tuning fork, which sounds
like what your jeweler did.
Arfa Daily
"Gareth Magennis" <sound....@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:vW%Qp.24258$Rw7....@newsfe28.ams2...
Makes a bit of a mockery of the name "Accutron" ...
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iv25or$ukb$1...@dont-email.me...
But apparently not when you stick new batteries in, which I think is the
"crap" characteristic that Gareth was alluding to ...
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"D" <no...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e14f93a$0$1730$c3e8da3$9b4f...@news.astraweb.com...
> On 7/6/2011 10:24 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> n Accutron will run fast with modern cells.
>>
>>> What a crap design then.
>
> I'm afraid your ignorance is showing.
>
>>
>> How old are you?
>>
>> The Accutron was designed 50 years ago. It uses a discrete circuit, which
>> seemed rather marvelously miniature at the time. And the Accutron was the
>> first wristwatch accurate to a minute a month -- quite an achievement for
>> a
>> "crap" design.
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for that, Bill. The design is quite elegant, with the ruby tipped
> tuning fork tines operating a micro-toothed wheel. That, the fact that it
> hums rather than ticks, and that the sweep second hand moves smoothly like
> an AC clock. Very unique concept. The design was also used in a marine
> chronometer for navigating longitude, which requires high accuracy
> http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/explore/object.cfm?ID=ZAA0275. They were
> also used in space, with the first Accutron timepiece sent up aboard the
> Vanguard 1 satellite, which achieved orbit on March 17, 1958 (5 months
> before I was born). Very cool, but ya know, some people will probably not
> get it, not to mention being rude enough to pointlessly dismiss with the
> word "crap" something another person is sincerely interested in.
>
> Kids.
Gareth is not a kid, and is in fact a highly experienced electronic service
engineer, as are many of us on here. I'm sure that he did not intend any
direct disrespect to you personally, as that is not generally his nature.
However, just because a design is 50 years old, and was 'elegant' in its
concept, that does not make it necessarily 'good', and by today's standards,
a design that purports to be an extremely accurate timepiece, but which runs
at an incorrect speed when the batteries are replaced, probably legitimately
counts as being 'crap'.
Arfa
William Sommerwerck
news:FX7Rp.30076$Dk2....@newsfe04.ams2...
> Gareth is not a kid, and is in fact a highly experienced electronic
service
> engineer, as are many of us on here. I'm sure that he did not intend any
> direct disrespect to you personally, as that is not generally his nature.
> However, just because a design is 50 years old, and was 'elegant' in its
> concept, that does not make it necessarily 'good', and by today's
standards,
> a design that purports to be an extremely accurate timepiece, but which
runs
> at an incorrect speed when the batteries are replaced, probably
legitimately
> counts as being 'crap'.
You're an intelligent person, and I never expected to hear that from you.
Mercury cells start at a slightly higher voltage than their "running"
voltage. The Accutron was designed to give accurate timing over that long
period of more-or-less stable voltage.
You'd probably find that modern watches aren't much more-accurate than an
Accutron.
Sylvia Else
in practical terms meant it only had to be reset at daylight saving time
changes. It's true I've seen nothing that accurate since.
Sylvia.
Meat Plow
Glad to offer an opinion for what it's worth. I took the watch, a gift
from my dad to the jeweler and was told immediately to not expect the same
time accuracy without a mercury battery. He was able to get it to +30
seconds a month which I could deal with. You might want to see if there
is a source for the original battery maybe from China that you could get
in a Chinese brand. I don't think they care much about the US
restrictions for mercury. I'm now wearing a gold Seiko Chronographer Date/
Time analog with three separate dials embedded into the watch face.
It's accurate to about one second a month. I don't need anything more
accurate than that. This watch is about 15 years old and takes a standard
lithium cell that lasts about 4 years.
William Sommerwerck
>> than an Accutron.
> I had an earlyish quartz watch that was achieving a minute a year, which
> in practical terms meant it only had to be reset at daylight saving time
> changes. It's true I've seen nothing that accurate since.
And I would be dishonest if I didn't admit my Casio Edifice watch is
accurate to within a few seconds a month.
D
elegant' in its concept, that does not make it necessarily 'good', and
> by today's standards, a design that purports to be an extremely accurate
> timepiece, but which runs at an incorrect speed when the batteries are
> replaced, probably legitimately counts as being 'crap'.
>
> Arfa
>
What was I thinking, valuing this gorgeous piece of
electronic/mechanical/engineering/jewelery-art, when I could just go to
Walmart and buy a plastic POS which will be more accurate?
I wonder why NASA didn't just do that, back in 1958???
And while we're discussing it, who are those fools who will fork over 6
figures+ for certain cars from the '20's & '30's, when a 2011 Kia
Something-Or-Other has a higher top speed and better gas mileage?
I have a "disposable" plastic POS I wear while biking, etc. It has its
place, and I'm glad to have it. But judging a 50 year old wristwatch
which was at the cutting edge of its discipline when it was made by the
TECHNICAL standards of today is pretty myopic, and misses the point
entirely.
Dan
whit3rd
> However, just because a design is 50 years old, and was 'elegant' in its
> concept, that does not make it necessarily 'good', and by today's standards,
> a design that purports to be an extremely accurate timepiece, but which runs
> at an incorrect speed when the batteries are replaced, probably legitimately
> counts as being 'crap'.
Not really. The Accutron power supply was specifically a stable Hg cell,
and it isn't 'replace' that makes it run awry, it's 'substitute nonstandard
supplies' that causes the issue. There's only so much compensation you
can do with a total semiconductor complement of one transistor.
Gareth Magennis
"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:_Q7Rp.25097$NX1....@newsfe18.ams2...
Sorry, guys, the comment was meant to be funny, if a little mischievous.
And I was, as Arfa understood, merely referring to the fact it ran fast
with new batteries.
No offence intended.
Gareth.
TimB
stable voltage of a mercury cell for exposure metering. If you google for
"PX625" (which was the type of cell many cameras used) you can find quite a
lot of information. Here's one pretty comprehensive document:
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/batt_adapt_us.pdf
TimB
Arfa Daily
"D" <no...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e152465$0$29255$c3e8da3$10cd...@news.astraweb.com...
I think perhaps it is you that misses the point that was being made here,
friend. I assume that you are from the left side of the pond ? Both myself
and Gareth are from the right side, and it seems to me that you might have
fallen into the usenet 'language trap', and are taking the word "crap" to
have an entirely different level of meaning to that which was intended. It
is used much less literally here than it is in the U.S. Calling your babies
"crap" was merely a tongue-in-cheek poke of fun.
As to cars, for sure, I appreciate a vintage model. I personally wouldn't
hand over large wedges of cash for one - unless I had so much that it was
meaningless in terms of 'real' value - but going down the road of
evaluation, just because a car is rare or was state of the art back when it
was made, doesn't alter the fact that compared to today's offerings - even
KIAs - it would have to count as "crap" in many respects, including
performance, reliability, comfort, economy, and although I hate to say it,
pollution.
Stop being so sensitive, and accept the remark for what it was. A simple
throw-away bit of leftpondian humour. Not a pop at you specifically, or your
hobby.
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"whit3rd" <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:83e9600d-f319-4e42...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
But that's not what was being said. The actual point that I was commenting
on was where a reference was made to a note in the user guide regarding the
specific condition of it running fast when a new (correct type) battery was
fitted, until its terminal voltage fell to the main life voltage. It is this
undesirable characteristic that causes the problem, if you try to use
alternative chemistry cells that have a *permanently* higher terminal
voltage than the original.
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:DMeRp.43931$w86....@newsfe22.ams2...
That should, of course, have read
... throw-away bit of *RIGHT* - pondian humour ... :-)
Arfa
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
>> Not really. The Accutron power supply was specifically a stable Hg cell,
>> and it isn't 'replace' that makes it run awry, it's 'substitute
>> nonstandard
>> supplies' that causes the issue. There's only so much compensation you
>> can do with a total semiconductor complement of one transistor.
Let's not forget that the concept of a three terminal voltage regulator,
which makes so many things possible these days was yet to be invented.
In the early 1960's a voltage regulator had to be built opon either a
zener diode (which required a higher battery voltage) or a gas filled
"vacuum" tube.
Today if you want 5 volts, you use a 7+ volt power supply and a three
terminal regulator. If you want 3.3 you use 5 volt supply and three
terminal regulator.
If you want three volts from a battery, you use a lithum cell, but it
"wanders" from around 3.7 volts off the production line, to around 3.0 volts
when almost exhausted. Most of it's life it produces 3.3 to 3.5 volts
depending upon the exact chemistry, load, age, etc.
In 1960, you had no such luxury. I'm sure they existed sooner, but I never
heard of a Litium battery until Canon started to use them in their EOS cameras
in the late 1980's.
Also note that a modern digital watch uses a more simple in concept circuit,
it just has a crystal oscilator that runs at 3.57mHz (the old NTSC color
burst frequency) and counts 3,570,000 (or whatever the exact number is)
clock pulses and moves the second hand.
Easily done with modern CMOS and SMT. Not easily done with Sputnik level
technology.
I had at one time a clock that worked that way, except with a lower
frequency oscillator (32kHz?) made by MacKay Dymek (part of HP and
their logo was an upside down HP logo).
It fit a 19 inch rack, was at least a foot tall and used Stroeger switches
to count.
You could hear it change the hour two floors away.
William Sommerwerck
> I have a "disposable" plastic POS I wear while biking, etc. It has its
> place, and I'm glad to have it. But judging a 50 year old wristwatch
> which was at the cutting edge of its discipline when it was made by the
> TECHNICAL standards of today is pretty myopic, and misses the point
> entirely.
The Accutron site referenced states that the stepper wheel was made using a
proprietary process that other companies were unable to duplicate. In fact,
the machine used to make it was deliberately destroyed by the company that
bought out Bulova.
I'm surprised no one has revived the Accutron. I have my father's, and when
my budget allows, I'll have a CLA performed.
William Sommerwerck
news:83e9600d-f319-4e42...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
Your correction is not correct. The mercury cells did start out at slightly
higher voltage. It a period of operation (several days I believe) until the
voltage fail to its stable point.
William Sommerwerck
>> new cells, until their initially slightly high voltage "settles in" to
its
>> nominal value. Therefore, an Accutron will run fast with modern cells.
> What a crap design then.
I repost this to point out that, in this context, there is nothing remotely
humorous about "crap". No reasonable person would interpret it as anything
but a slap.
Arfa Daily
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iv4659$4sk$1...@dont-email.me...
Say that again when you understand English English, rather than American
English, William. As someone from the same country as the person who said
it, I can assure you that it *was* intended as humour. I understood it as
that. You, and the OP obviously didn't. I can understand him getting it
wrong, as I don't think I've seen him as a regular poster on here, so maybe
doesn't understand the subtleties of transatlantic language exchanges, but
you know better, as you've been involved in these conversations many many
times. In fact, come to think of it, on more than one occasion, you have
been the instigator of such interchanges, having said something that others
have taken as offensive. Gareth has even posted to say that it was intended
as humour, and to apologise if it was taken as anything other than that. So
stop deliberately stirring the pot, will you ? The remark was *NOT* intended
to be offensive to the OP, any more than mine along the same lines was.
Accept that, both of you, and get over it ...
Arfa
hrho...@att.net
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
If something this minor upsets everyone, what will it take to start
another world war?????????/
William Sommerwerck
Arfa, I think people too often take offense where none is intended. But if
you can't see that there is nothing even remotely suggesting humor or irony
in the exchange... It is you who needs to understand us, not the other way
around.
Believe me, as someone who has been a wise-cracker all his life, and
sometimes gotten into trouble over it, I know whereof I speak.
William Sommerwerck
> another world war?????????
The issue isn't what was said, but Arfa's insistence that WE are supposed to
accept an obscure British usage without complaint or offense. And worse,
that we are humorless fools if we don't.
Gareth Magennis
"TimB" <t...@tinymail.co.uk.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:iv3s0l$cfj$1...@dont-email.me...
> This is a common problem with old cameras too as they often relied on the
> stable voltage of a mercury cell for exposure metering.
What a crap design then.
Gareth.
spamtrap1888
> "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>
> news:vW%Qp.24258$Rw7....@newsfe28.ams2...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:iv1k8c$aoh$2...@dont-email.me...
> >> "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> >>news:97ip3p...@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>> But do you know [whether] any voltage drop is really NEEDED?
>
> >> Gee, Phil, I thought you were omniscient.
>
> >> Though you'd think the mechanical nature of the Accutron's timekeeping
> >> process would remove any interaction with the electronics, it's not so.
>
> >> The user manual specifically states that the watch runs a bit fast with
> >> new
> >> cells, until their initially slightly high voltage "settles in" to its
> >> nominal value. Therefore, an Accutron will run fast with modern cells.
>
> > What a crap design then.
>
> > Gareth.
>
> Makes a bit of a mockery of the name "Accutron" ...
>
No one could have predicted that mercury button cells would be pulled
from the market. The more so because mercury laden twisty bulbs are
becoming all but mandatory.
D
>
> No one could have predicted that mercury button cells would be pulled
> from the market. The more so because mercury laden twisty bulbs are
> becoming all but mandatory.
>
That irony struck me as well. Not that I think any source of toxins
should be overlooked, or improperly dealt with, but some perspective
might be in order. I do think that in addition to being deposited in
landfills, there was concern about kids swallowing the cells. Something
only the most hardy are apt to do with compact fluorescents ;-)
D
> Both myself and Gareth are from the right side, and it seems to me that
> you might have fallen into the usenet 'language trap', and are taking
> Stop being so sensitive, and accept the remark for what it was. A simple
> throw-away bit of leftpondian humour. Not a pop at you specifically, or
> your hobby.
>
> Arfa
More what I found troubling and what I was attempting to correct was the
ignorance regarding the significance of these timepieces, and the very
impressive technical achievement they represent, things which users of a
NG such as this one should find interesting. In terms of the "crap"
reference, you may be right about how the word is perceived in different
cultures, but if you and your friend made a bad choice of words, why is
it *ME* (and at least one other poster who also commented on the word)
who have "fallen into the usenet language trap". Perhaps you should
stop being so INsensitive.
Dan
Michael A. Terrell
The NTSC burst frequency is 3,579,545 Hz.
I've never seen a watch with the color crystal. CMOS uses more power
at higher frequencies, which is why they use a 32,768 Hz crystal.
fifteen biniary dividers gives you the one second pulse needed at the
lowest power requirements.
> Easily done with modern CMOS and SMT. Not easily done with Sputnik level
> technology.
>
> I had at one time a clock that worked that way, except with a lower
> frequency oscillator (32kHz?) made by MacKay Dymek (part of HP and
> their logo was an upside down HP logo).
> It fit a 19 inch rack, was at least a foot tall and used Stroeger switches
> to count.
>
> You could hear it change the hour two floors away.
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.
Jeff Liebermann
<sound....@btconnect.com> wrote:
>"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:iv1k8c$aoh$2...@dont-email.me...
>> "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:97ip3p...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> But do you know [whether] any voltage drop is really NEEDED?
>>
>> Gee, Phil, I thought you were omniscient.
>>
>> Though you'd think the mechanical nature of the Accutron's timekeeping
>> process would remove any interaction with the electronics, it's not so.
>>
>> The user manual specifically states that the watch runs a bit fast with
>> new
>> cells, until their initially slightly high voltage "settles in" to its
>> nominal value. Therefore, an Accutron will run fast with modern cells.
>What a crap design then.
>Gareth.
Sigh. If you have ever worn a spring wound watch of the period when
the Accutron was first introduced, you might change your opinion. When
compared to todays high accuracy, low power, LCD watches, the Accutron
is indeed inferior. When compared to the commodity watches of the
early 1960's, it was a miraculous improvement.
The Accutron has one transistor and one tuning fork. If you can build
a power supply voltage insensitive oscillator watch drive, with the
technology available in the early 1960's, you're welcome to try.
<http://www.elektron.demon.co.uk/accutron.html>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann
I forgot to mumble something about the battery problem. See:
It sorta looks like a silver oxide cell, with a shottky diode in
series to get the 1.55VDC down to 1.33 to 1.35VDC (but I'm not sure).
<http://www.boomertime.com/3%20Accutron/A1688/A1688.htm>
Reinhard Zwirner
[...]
> And I was, as Arfa understood, merely referring to the fact it ran fast
> with new batteries.
Would you blame the car for failing when you replace the 12 V car
battery by a 24 V car battery? An Accutron watch doesn't run fast if you
replace a used 1.35 V mercury oxide battery by a new 1.35 V mercury
oxide battery. So, the running fast problem has nothing to do with using
a _new_ battery; you just have to use the right (new) battery.
Reinhard
Gareth Magennis
"Reinhard Zwirner" <reinhard...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:97ms49...@mid.individual.net...
Reinhard, that is all totally incorrect, you haven't been listening.
Gareth.
Arfa Daily
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iv4mcm$drn$1...@dont-email.me...
If the cap fits, William, if the cap fits ...
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"Gareth Magennis" <sound....@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:F8rRp.3050$_r1....@newsfe06.ams2...
+1
Arfa
>
>
>
>
Arfa Daily
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iv4m8l$cun$1...@dont-email.me...
Why can't you just accept that you are wrong ? You simply don't understand
the variety of humour that was in use here. When I come to America, I don't
pretend to be able to speak your variety of the language properly. I get by.
I hope I don't cause too much offense in things that I innocently say that
may be taken wrongly, and I try not to take any offense from anything said
back to me. A lot of the time, I don't understand what people are laughing
at in your comedy TV shows, and I'm sure that the same is true for you with
some of our 'comedy' offerings. So please don't try to pretend that you
fully understand everything about the way the language is spoken and used
here, whilst implying that we understand nothing about how you take offense.
Remember also, that we have been speaking this language for a lot longer
than you, so have had many hundreds of years more to develop strains of
humour that you might not understand. I'm sorry if this type of humour is
just too subtle for you - it certainly doesn't fall into the category of
"wisecracking" - but as I know you understand, when you haven't got your
'silly' head on, there is a huge difference between typical American
'straightforward' humour, and British humour, which often relies on
linguistic subtleties and double meanings.
I don't know how many more ways that I can say it to you. It *was* humour -
allbeit a variety that you seem unable to pick the bones out of. The comment
was *not* intended to be offensive no matter what you think, and would not
have been considered so by any British person.
Now please, whether you understand that or not, stop being a total prat,
climb down off your hobby horse, and just accept what I say.
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"spamtrap1888" <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6b0fd788-bc46-4fb9...@g16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
Pay attention at the back. The comment was made in respect of the fact,
quoted from the user guide, that even with the original correct battery
type, when a new one was fitted, the watch would run fast for a few days
whilst the terminal voltage settled. Gareth suggested, with tongue in cheek
humour that is being misunderstood by William, that this made the design
"crap", a word that is used in the UK with a slightly different emphasis to
when it is used in America. I then followed on, with similar tongue in cheek
humour, that this unfortunate characteristic of the design, made a bit of a
mockery of the fact that the name was obviously based on the adjective
"accurate", which obviously, it isn't for those few days ...
The additional fact that the mercury cells are no longer available, is now
rather unfortunate for this aspect of the design, as the next nearest
available terminal voltage for a cell with the right footprint to fit the
watch, is high enough for the watch to think that it permanently has a 'new'
battery, so permanently runs inaccurately fast. Hence the OP's original
question.
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:bssb1793d1ekv2g9h...@4ax.com...
Frankly, I'm surprised that the humour of Gareth's remark passed so
completely over your head, Jeff ... :-\
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"Gareth Magennis" <sound....@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:iflRp.16$Z04...@newsfe07.ams2...
LOL !!!!! Double LOL !!!!! ROTFLMAO !!! Go Gazzer, go !
Arfa
William Sommerwerck
>> Believe me, as someone who has been a wise-cracker all his life, and
>> sometimes gotten into trouble over it, I know whereof I speak.
> Why can't you just accept that you are wrong ? You simply don't understand
> the variety of humour that was in use here.
That's like saying you can hit someone over the head with a sledgehammer,
then claim it was supposed to be funny.
Arfa, I know how to write screenplays with foreshadowing and subtext! I had
a great sense of irony and sarcasm long before you were born.
The fact that calling something "crap" in English English is comic (which I
accept) is beside the point. That isn't what we're arguing about.
The issue is that you make a remark whose context to an American is
"serious" and extremely offensive -- just look at the original posting --
without feeling you have to take an responsibility for it. You just don't
get it, do you?
You are seriously devoid of common sense and common courtesy, two things I
didn't used to think you were short of.
William Sommerwerck
> quoted from the user guide, that even with the original correct battery
> type, when a new one was fitted, the watch would run fast for a few days
> whilst the terminal voltage settled. Gareth suggested, with tongue in
cheek
> humour that is being misunderstood by William, that this made the design
> "crap", a word that is used in the UK with a slightly different emphasis
to
> when it is used in America. I then followed on, with similar tongue in
cheek
> humour, that this unfortunate characteristic of the design, made a bit of
a
> mockery of the fact that the name was obviously based on the adjective
> "accurate", which obviously, it isn't for those few days ...
I misunderstood nothing. You refuse to apologize for an offensive remark in
a situation where the listeners did not -- COULD NOT -- know the context.
How much more explanation does that need?
You cannot say whatever you like, then refuse to take responsibility because
the poor, benighted listeners didn't know.
Arfa Daily
"D" <no...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e15ec5c$0$9821$c3e8da3$e408...@news.astraweb.com...
Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use of
the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept that
this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an American,
you don't understand. And I don't mean that to be taken as an offensive
comment to you in particular, or Americans in general. I watch a lot of
American TV, and visit America regularly, and have done for many years, so
understand at least a little about your variety of humour. I'm sure that you
would have to agree that it is predominantly straightforward and obvious -
sort of 'verbal slapstick' if you like. Sometimes that works for British
audiences, and sometimes it doesn't, because we don't understand what the
'joke' is. By the same token, British humour is often very subtle, and can
hinge even on the way a single word is pronounced, or contextually used. I'm
sure that sometimes this works for Americans, and sometimes it doesn't,
exactly the same as with us and your humour. In this particular exchange,
Gareth's attempt at humour hasn't worked for you, or William or Jeff, so as
you are all Americans, this has to tell us that it's a variety of humour
that you have difficulty with, which is fair enough, and why Gareth
immediately apologised. And there it should have lain, except that William
won't let it go.
You also misunderstand the use of my phrase "the usenet language trap". We
all fall into it from both sides of the pond. Occasionally, some little
incident like this one. 'takes off' in this way, but mostly, regular posters
on here know the problem well, and if anyone does bother to make a comment,
it usually dies out within a post or two. As I have not seen you posting on
here before - and I may be wrong on that, or you might be a long-time
lurker - I assumed that you were new to a group that has many regulars on
both sides of the pond, and had not come across these linguistic nuances
before, and that was the reason that you had become so upset by what most
would have seen as a throw-away comment.
Every now and then, William jumps on something like this, and worries it
like a dog with a bone, as he is doing right now.
As to asking me to stop being insensitive, I really think that you should
stop and consider that remark, and perhaps think how you might feel about me
telling you to stop being *so* sensitive. This is usenet. We are all
grownups, and sometimes, grownups have spats. It's life. There is no
moderation as such on here, and it is not a forum or Google group or a
subset of any other net-based front end trawler. If you honestly think that
I am being insensitive, then just carry on posting. Sooner or later, for no
apparent reason, you will set light to one of the people on here that can be
really offensive. Then you will understand all about sensitivity ...
I say again, that what was intended was humour. Nothing against you, or your
watches, or the Bulova technology. Gareth has already apologised for his
remark, and I likewise apologise if you found my similar attempt at humour,
outside your understanding, and hence offensive. Now can we please leave it
at that ? And that especially includes you, William.
Arfa
Jeff Liebermann
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Frankly, I'm surprised that the humour of Gareth's remark passed so
>completely over your head, Jeff ... :-\
>Arfa
What humor? Besides, I only write humor, I never read it.
--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com je...@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
D
Like I read all that. You really do have a lot of spare time, don't you?
Ron D.
mA. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=863-1126-1-ND
It was discontinued in June 2010.
Ron D.
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/Schottky-Diodes-Rectifiers/_/N-2xpr5?Keyword=diode&FS=True
, but you'll need the current drawn by the watch using a feedback
ammeter.
You could build one simple enough.
Arfa Daily
"D" <no...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e166cef$0$21186$c3e8da3$a909...@news.astraweb.com...
OK. You want to do offensive ? You're a half baked TWAT who doesn't want to
understand. So I say to you, fuck right off, and take your pony watches with
you. Ignorant arsehole.
Arfa
Arfa Daily
>
> The issue is that you make a remark whose context to an American is
> "serious" and extremely offensive -- just look at the original posting --
> without feeling you have to take an responsibility for it. You just don't
> get it, do you?
It is you who don't get it, you irritating little man. I apologised. Gareth
apologised. What more do you want me to do. I have accepted responsibility
for the remark, and the fact that you and your compadres couldn't see it as
humour. What more do you want me to do. Get on a fucking plane and come and
beg for forgiveness at your door ? Now grow up for christ sake, and drop it.
>
> You are seriously devoid of common sense and common courtesy, two things I
> didn't used to think you were short of.
>
>
And for that comment, fuck you, William, fuck you >: (
Arfa
William Sommerwerck
> Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
> technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use
of
> the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept that
> this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an American,
> you don't understand.
Stop patronizing us. (Or at least, me.) Despite being a stupid American (and
let's face it, Americans are stupid) I understand subtle and ironic humor.
THAT ISN'T THE ISSUE, though you insist on it.
Arfa, you seem to think that merely saying something -- especially in
print -- necessarily carries the context. IT DOESN'T.
Is it too much to ask that you say "Whoops! I didn't stop to think that
there was no way an American could have gotten the joke, and would have
misinterpreted it as a stupid and possibly offensive remark."?
Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
something of a compliment.
William Sommerwerck
> I say again, that what was intended was humour. Nothing against you, or
> your watches, or the Bulova technology. Gareth has already apologised
> for his remark, and I likewise apologise if you found my similar attempt
> at humour, outside your understanding, and hence offensive. Now can we
> please leave it at that ? And that especially includes you, William.
Gee, there's nothing like turning an "apology" into another offensive
remark.
Arfa, do you understand the difference beteween "knowledge" and
"understanding"?
William Sommerwerck
>> "serious" and extremely offensive -- just look at the original posting --
don't
>> get it, do you?
> It is you who don't get it, you irritating little man. I apologised.
Gareth
> apologised. What more do you want me to do. I have accepted responsibility
> for the remark, and the fact that you and your compadres couldn't see it
as
> humour. What more do you want me to do. Get on a fucking plane and come
> and beg for forgiveness at your door? Now grow up for christ sake, and
drop it.
I will leave this with a quote from the Bible: "Every man is justified in
his own sight."
JW
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in Message id:
<iv6qmo$gea$1...@dont-email.me>:
In that case, why not drop this silly argument? Sheesh.
Arfa Daily
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iv6q53$d25$1...@dont-email.me...
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:OftRp.28431$Zn.1...@newsfe30.ams2...
>
>> Oh dear. Of course we understand the significance of them and the huge
>> technical advance that they represented, which is what made Gareth's use
> of
>> the word "crap" (with the British accent of meaning), funny. I accept
>> that
>> this is a very subtle form of humour, and perhaps one that as an
>> American,
>> you don't understand.
>
> Stop patronizing us. (Or at least, me.) Despite being a stupid American
> (and
> let's face it, Americans are stupid) I understand subtle and ironic humor.
> THAT ISN'T THE ISSUE, though you insist on it.
>
> Arfa, you seem to think that merely saying something -- especially in
> print -- necessarily carries the context. IT DOESN'T.
>
> Is it too much to ask that you say "Whoops! I didn't stop to think that
> there was no way an American could have gotten the joke, and would have
> misinterpreted it as a stupid and possibly offensive remark."?
How many fucking times have I got to say it ? I already have apologised to
you and the other guy but you just can't let it go, can you ? Now piss off
and pedal your senseless drivel somewhere else. I've stopped listening to
you ...
>
> Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
> offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
> something of a compliment.
>
>
No it isn't. Perhaps in London, when used with another word such as
"Diamond", it might occasionally been seen as such, but otherwise, it is a
fairly derogatory term. So don't try to patronise me either, by pretending
that you understand all about British English. Unless you have lived here
for at least 30 years, you don't.
Jeff Liebermann
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
>offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
>something of a compliment.
No listing for "crap" in the British to US dictionary:
<http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/c>
but there is one for "geezer":
<http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/g>
which means "dude".
For settling such differences in interpretation, Americans prefer
litigation, where the winner is whomever is left standing after
everyone else runs out of money. The British are move civilized,
preferring trial by combat.
Confession: I like watching the old Dr Who shows. (The new shows
suck). The only problem is that I fail to understand most of the
subtle jokes, puns, political parodies, and UK specific terms.
Jeff Liebermann
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I don't know how many more ways that I can say it to you. It *was* humour -
>allbeit a variety that you seem unable to pick the bones out of. The comment
>was *not* intended to be offensive no matter what you think, and would not
>have been considered so by any British person.
Welcome to one of the many joys of internationalization. Kinda like
the Chevy Nova automobile of the 1960's, which means "doesn't go" in
Spanish. More horror stories of misinterpretation:
<http://www.learnenglish.de/mistakes/HorrorMistakes.htm>
<http://marketinghackz.com/10-product-and-campaign-blunders-to-learn-from/>
There are also differences in methodology which will cause problems.
For example:
[Q] What's the difference between a bribe and a commission?
[A] When it's paid. A bribe in advance. A commission after.
Otherwise they're the same.
In many parts of the world, anyone taking a commission is considered a
fool and bribery is considered the norm. In other parts, bribery is a
crime, while taking a commission is considered acceptable.
Compromises, such as bank loan "points", where the bank takes its
profits in advance, marginally avoids the problem.
Wars have also been fought and nearly lost because of these
differences in terminology. During WWII, the allied general staff was
thoroughly confused when someone suggested "tabling" some action item.
In the US, that means delaying a decision. In England, it means
killing the idea.
It also extends to personal habits. My family is from Poland. Half
are from the German side, the other half from the Russian. This
became a problem during the annual Passover dinner, where the two
sides would line up on opposite sides of the long table, and glare at
each other in disgust. The Germans were very much into table manners,
never touching the food and using the forks and knives to surgically
dissect the food. The Russians were into reach and grab, stopping
short of throwing the food across the table. To the Germans, the
Russians ate like pigs. To the Russians, the Germans were pretentious
and pretending to act like the upper classes of old Russia. Many
family wars were fought over the proper operation of the knife and
fork. Us kids would mimick the mannerisms of whichever side we wanted
to impress at the time. This and other differences were not resolved
until most of both sides had died.
Treaties, legal contracts and laws were originally written in Latin,
because a dead language was not subject to dynamic changes in usage,
and therefore was far less subject to misinterpretation.
For those in this discussion that are less than tolerant about using
easily understandable terms, I recommend working with a virtual
company, where the various members are scattered all over the world.
Misunderstands are epidemic to the uninitiated and inexperienced. One
develops far more tolerance of alleged insults than has been
demonstrated in this discussion. In international discussions, I use
a totally different style of writing and speaking. Lots of rules and
hints, but one rule that is mandatory is "no slang".
spamtrap1888
wrote:
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
In the US, a "geezer" is an injection drug user, typically a heroin
addict. See, for example, _The concise new Partridge dictionary of
slang and unconventional English_ byEric Partridge, Tom Dalzell, Terry
spamtrap1888
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 04:36:41 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
>
> >Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
> >offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
> >something of a compliment.
>
> No listing for "crap" in the British to US dictionary:
> <http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/c>
> but there is one for "geezer":
> <http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/g>
> which means "dude".
>
> For settling such differences in interpretation, Americans prefer
> litigation, where the winner is whomever is left standing after
> everyone else runs out of money. The British are move civilized,
> preferring trial by combat.
>
> Confession: I like watching the old Dr Who shows. (The new shows
> suck). The only problem is that I fail to understand most of the
> subtle jokes, puns, political parodies, and UK specific terms.
>
It took me years to understand the difference between a quango and a
boffin.
Jeff Liebermann
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
>> offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
>> something of a compliment.
>
>In the US, a "geezer" is an injection drug user, typically a heroin
>addict. See, for example, _The concise new Partridge dictionary of
>slang and unconventional English_ byEric Partridge, Tom Dalzell, Terry
There's also a difference in pronunciation. See:
<http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/geezer>
and click the two flag icons in the top left of the page.
(Now you know why I call it a "computah").
spamtrap1888
> It also extends to personal habits. My family is from Poland. Half
> are from the German side, the other half from the Russian. This
> became a problem during the annual Passover dinner, where the two
> sides would line up on opposite sides of the long table, and glare at
> each other in disgust. The Germans were very much into table manners,
> never touching the food and using the forks and knives to surgically
> dissect the food. The Russians were into reach and grab, stopping
> short of throwing the food across the table. To the Germans, the
> Russians ate like pigs. To the Russians, the Germans were pretentious
> and pretending to act like the upper classes of old Russia. Many
> family wars were fought over the proper operation of the knife and
> fork. Us kids would mimick the mannerisms of whichever side we wanted
> to impress at the time. This and other differences were not resolved
> until most of both sides had died.
I thought the Litvaks were regarded as the more hoity-toity ones, the
snobby intellectuals. Or am I misreading this?
Jeff Liebermann
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"D" <no...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:4e152465$0$29255$c3e8da3$10cd...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> I have a "disposable" plastic POS I wear while biking, etc. It has its
>> place, and I'm glad to have it. But judging a 50 year old wristwatch
>> which was at the cutting edge of its discipline when it was made by the
>> TECHNICAL standards of today is pretty myopic, and misses the point
>> entirely.
>
>The Accutron site referenced states that the stepper wheel was made using a
>proprietary process that other companies were unable to duplicate. In fact,
>the machine used to make it was deliberately destroyed by the company that
>bought out Bulova.
That's because the index wheel was made from beryllium copper. It
could be duplicated, but my guess(tm) is that none of the workers
wanted to be near it. Beryllium dust is extrememly toxic and
hazardous. Beryllium copper is only about 2% beryllium, but still
required exotic dust control in the machining process. Bulova went
through several hands before Citizen bought what was left. The
machine was possibly destroyed because of the hazardous material
problem:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_poisoning>
>I'm surprised no one has revived the Accutron. I have my father's, and when
>my budget allows, I'll have a CLA performed.
They've been cloned. I have two that I bought for peanuts. No
batteries, so I don't know if they work. One is an Elton clone:
<http://accutron.org/214/clones.htm>
The other is an unknown.
Fun exercise: Guess how much a current reproduction of the Accutron
would sell for today? My offhand guess is about $3,000. That might
explain why they're not being reproduced.
Finding usable batteries is a problem. Mercury batteries are no
longer made, and the higher voltage silver-oxide substitutes work
arounds are somewhat of a challenge:
<http://www.accutron214.com/AccutronBattery.htm>
<http://www.boomertime.com/3%20Accutron/A1688/A1688.htm>
Jeff Liebermann
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I thought the Litvaks were regarded as the more hoity-toity ones, the
>snobby intellectuals. Or am I misreading this?
Litvaks are Jews from Lithuania, not Poland. The dinner table holiday
politics had nothing to do with intellectuals.
If it hadn't been for WWII, the Polish cavalry would have conquered
Europe, and we might all be speaking Polish today.
William Sommerwerck
> Accutron would sell for today? My offhand guess is about $3,000.
> That might explain why they're not being reproduced.
I could see $300, from an Asian plant. Watches tend to be overpriced anyway
(they always have been), so anyone making an Accutron would have to decide
where the price/volume line would be drawn.
D
Ron - Thanks for the helpful replies. The Mouser chart is especially
interesting. I've used both Digikey & Mouser in the past used to build
a lot of audio equipment, good sources.
Dan
D
Oh and I do have a fair amount of test gear (several digital meters, an
oscilloscope, etc. so that's no problem ;-)
Dan
Meat Plow
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:05:08 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>Frankly, I'm surprised that the humour of Gareth's remark passed so
>>completely over your head, Jeff ... :-\ Arfa
>
> What humor? Besides, I only write humor, I never read it.
LOL!
--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse
Phil Allison
"Jeff Liebermann"
>
> There are also differences in methodology which will cause problems.
> For example:
> [Q] What's the difference between a bribe and a commission?
> [A] When it's paid. A bribe in advance. A commission after.
> Otherwise they're the same.
** Hardly the case at all.
> In many parts of the world, anyone taking a commission is considered a
> fool and bribery is considered the norm. In other parts, bribery is a
> crime, while taking a commission is considered acceptable.
** A " bribe " is a payment or a gift intended to influence a person (
usually in some position of authority) to act in a way favourable to the
bribe giver and this action is not legal. For example, bribing a police
officer to turn a blind eye to one's transgression of the law.
In places where offering " bribes " is standard practice, it is often to
have an official do their regular job in relation to the bribe giver - so
it not seen as corrupt.
However a "commission" is an previously agreed payment of part of a price or
service fee made to a person responsible for causing the original payment to
occur. The typical example is a commission paid for making sales.
The law in most places prescribes " secret commissions " as being corrupt
payments offered in order to influence decision makers and advice givers in
relation to contracts and purchases. These are also know as " kick backs ".
.... Phil
Phil Allison
"Phil Allison"
**Should be:
> The law in most places proscribes " secret commissions " ....
... Phil
Ron D.
the difference between a FB and shunt ammeter. The output of the op
amp is -I*Rf . In practical designs there is a capacitor across the
feedback resistor. The OP amps needs a low Vos and needs to be unity
gain stable. You can use two 9V batteries which I have done or use a
rail splitter. I've built plenty of them.
It is important to get a handle on the operating current.
Arfa Daily
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:9k4e17tjffjuuppo8...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 04:36:41 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Here's another example... In the US, "geezer" is considered somewhat
>>offensive, implying excessive age or senility. In Great Britain, it's
>>something of a compliment.
>
> No listing for "crap" in the British to US dictionary:
> <http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/c>
> but there is one for "geezer":
> <http://www.translatebritish.com/dictionary/g>
> which means "dude".
>
> For settling such differences in interpretation, Americans prefer
> litigation, where the winner is whomever is left standing after
> everyone else runs out of money. The British are move civilized,
> preferring trial by combat.
>
> Confession: I like watching the old Dr Who shows. (The new shows
> suck). The only problem is that I fail to understand most of the
> subtle jokes, puns, political parodies, and UK specific terms.
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann
Jeff. The site that you refer to is American owned by someone in MI. For the
most part, the word "geezer" in the UK, does not mean what UK people would
generally associate with the useage of the word "dude", which we see as
meaning 'cool' or a sort of American version of 'mate'. A friend of my
son's, who is almost 30 years old, calls everyone dude, in exactly the same
context as I would use 'mate', being somewhat older than he. Geezer is
somewhat archaic now anyway. It was a word originally coined a very long
time ago, and predominantly used by 'kids' to describe anyone over the age
of about 40 in a slightly derogatory way. Such as "That ol' geezer down the
road never does anything but moan about us playing football outside his
house ". In the east end of London, it can be used a bit differently. It
might have the word "diamond" added to it to say something like "Fred down
the bookie's is a right diamond geezer" meaning a good all round bloke.
see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/geezer and
http://www.londonslang.com/db/d/
Arfa
Arfa Daily
<snip>
>
> Wars have also been fought and nearly lost because of these
> differences in terminology. During WWII, the allied general staff was
> thoroughly confused when someone suggested "tabling" some action item.
> In the US, that means delaying a decision. In England, it means
> killing the idea.
That's not actually quite right Jeff. The word "Tabling" and phrase "tabling
a motion" is used all the time in British governmental procedure and
negotiations between parties, and means to put up an idea for consideration
(now, not some time in the future).
Yes, and therein lies the problem with this discussion. It has all hinged on
use of a slang word, and its misinterpretation - especially by some on here
that are well aware of this problem, and should know better. With hindsight,
I include myself in that. Some 'definitions' that have been put forward
here - including your one above - clearly demonstrate that what people
understand to be the meaning of a word in a country other than their own, is
often misguided, and sometimes misled by the wonders of the www ...
Arfa