How best to dilute gasoline to use in a kitchen sink?

[Robert Bannon]

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute for removing labels.
Most often I do it outside, because of the stink, but I want to keep it
inside in tiny amounts, diluted as much as possible.

I've already tried all the common home chemicals from alcohol to acetone to
lemon juice to engine degreaser to dish detergent to brake cleaner to windex
to automatic-transmission fluid and MAF cleaner, all of which work sometimes
but all of which fail often (either because they melt the container or they
don't dissolve the goo).

I've even tried common flavorings such as orange blossom extract, rose
water, pure lemon extract, coconut oil and walnut oil, which, surprisingly,
are totally useless (but they do smell the best!).

I've found, through decades of experience, that gasoline, which also fails
sometimes, works more often than any other household common chemical.

But gasoline has all the problems that most of you will love to "teach" me,
but that's not the question (so please don't try to teach me why gasoline
vapors are flammable and why I should goo-be-gone outdoors because I know
that).

Also please don't try to teach me that there are commercial lemon-oil
solutions.

I just want to dilute the gasoline and I already know that even the diluted
gasoline vapors will be flammable. We take risks sometimes when working
around the house and not being a pussy about it all the time.

So I plan to keep a small jar of gasoline properly labeled under the kitchen
sink (let's not go into the dangers of doing that, because properly diluting
it won't solve that danger for the most part).

Without being a pussy about the question, do you have any suggestion that
you think might work best to dilute the gasoline 10:1 (or even 100:1) so
that I'm using the minimum effective amount of gasoline indoors?

What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and dilute it
(maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

[Stormin' Norman]

Ethanol, 2 cycle engine oil, methanol.

That said, you are better off using wd-40, turpentine or mineral spirits instead of gasoline. WD-40 does a
great job removing labels.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 11/18/2016 7:05 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?
>

> But gasoline has all the problems that most of you will love to "teach" me,
> but that's not the question (so please don't try to teach me why gasoline
> vapors are flammable and why I should goo-be-gone outdoors because I know
> that).
>
> Also please don't try to teach me that there are commercial lemon-oil
> solutions.
>

Nope, won't even call you an idiot for using gasoline in the house. For
liability reasons though, I won't tell you what can dilute it because
none are truly safe.

I bet the guys down at the firehouse know what to use. You should go
down and ask them.

[JC]

On 11/18/2016 7:05 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:

You are the fucking idiot that ALWAYS turns up at a wet bonfire arn't you.
Well if you really want to set fire to your house you can add denatured
alcohol, available in walmart but really, gasoline just stinks and I
wouldn't want it anywhere in my house. Garage is bad enough.

Removing goop/labels.

1) Try WD40
2? Try WD40 and denatured alcohol combined.
3) Dependent on what the goop is on and if its painted add a drop of
Acetone (also in Walmart) or use pure Acetone.
4) Isopropyl alcohol 90% (Walmart) shifts stuff 1-3 wont.
5) White spirit is almost as effective as gasoline, again add Acetone if
the subject wont be damaged.

Don't use gasoline, it stinks and will blow up when your fag smoking
missus walks in.

[dadiOH]

"Robert Bannon" <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:o0o515$r7r$1...@news.mixmin.net...

>
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

oil
alcohol

[Frank]

On 11/18/2016 7:05 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:

I have chemical suggestions but what you want to do is just plain dumb.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:22:22 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

> Ethanol, 2 cycle engine oil, methanol.
>
> That said, you are better off using wd-40, turpentine or mineral spirits instead of gasoline. WD-40 does a
> great job removing labels.

Interesting suggestions!
For different reasons.

1. Because I long ago found common household isopropyl alcohol useless as a
goo-be-gone substitute, I had forgotten that they "cut" gasoline 15% in cars
using corn alcohol, so, why hadn't I thought of cutting the gasoline with
"alcohol"?

So thanks for that suggestion - but it seems to come with a problem.

The problem of course, is that ethanol isn't easy to come by cheaply, even
though it, itself, is as cheap as corn. Even in the cheapest grain alcohol
that I can find at a liquor store, it's almost certainly gonna be far more
expensive than the gasoline that I'm cutting.

So, it might work, but it defeats the purpose of a cheap home remedy.
(Unless there is a methanol source that is cheap?)

2. Two stroke engine oil. Again, this is a great suggestion (if it works).
But it too seems to come with a problem.

The problem is that, while we all routinely cut our two-stroke tools'
gasoline with 40:1 and 50:1 two-stroke oil, the cutting is in the opposite
direction. We're actually cutting the oil with gasoline, and not cutting the
gasoline with oil.

So, a reverse dilution of 10 parts oil and 1 part gasoline doesn't seem, on
first inspection, to be a viable solution (because it may be too oily, which
is antagonistic to the original goal).

3. I had tried wd40 in the past and found it not useful but maybe I need to
try it again? Like everyone, I grew up with WD-40 and 3-in-one cans always
on the garage shelf, but over the years, I have found far too many people
suggesting wd40 for far too many things, where, in EVERY CASE I ever
investigated, there was a far better miracle-in-a-can than WD-40.

WD-40 stinks worse than gasoline, by the way, to me anyway - where it gives
me a headache, so, for that reason alone, it would be no good. But even if I
could handle the stink of WD-40, from memory, it's just a "displacement
fluid" which I don't see *any* use of which doesn't have a better solution
for what it does (whether that be cracking nuts or "lubricating" garage
springs or whatever).

In short, I haven't had WD-40 around in years because I stopped believing in
miracles in a can. But if it works at a 10:1 ratio of 10 parts WD40 to 1
part gasoline, maybe that might be feasible?

4. On Turpentime and mineral spirits, I went to the hardware store recently
to get MEK and they can't even sell that in California. I think I was
looking at the other "solvents" like paint thinner, and they can't sell them
either except at "substitutes". I'll have to look again, but I've already
tried all the "solvents" that I had in my garage, which is as cluttered as
anyone's so I had plenty of paint thinners there (but I didn't mention that
in the OP).

Still, they may be the BEST bet yet, so I'm glad you brought them up.
a. Except in California, they're pretty commonly available
b. They're cheap enough to use at 10 parts solvent & 1 part gasoline
c. They are solvents so they won't be antagonistic to the original goal

I'll head off to the hardware store to see what California chemicals I can
find that are cheap and that are solvents that I can cut at a 10:1 ratio of
solvent to gasoline.

[Dean Hoffman]

On 11/18/16 6:05 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

No. A question though. Have you tried diesel fuel or kerosene to
remove labels?

A bunch cut.

[Oren]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:05:58 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>I've found, through decades of experience, that gasoline, which also fails
>sometimes, works more often than any other household common chemical.

Lighter fluid, NAPHTHA!

Did you try peanut butter on the labels?

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:47:59 -0500, Frank wrote:

> I have chemical suggestions but what you want to do is just plain dumb.

Men (real men) handle danger.

You never worked on a car engine?
Or rode a motorcycle?
Or used a chainsaw?

Men (real men) handle danger.
They just make sure they know what they're doing first.

That's why I'm asking the question in the first place.

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:37:42 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

> oil
> alcohol

The two-stroke oil idea made sense that it will mix with gasoline, but it's
oily which seems to defeat the goal.

The alchol is almost certainly the best idea, but I was thinking "ethanol",
which is only available diluted with water (as vodka, for example), which is
too much water in California where even everclear is restricted in
concentration by the nanny state (and probably too expensive anyway).

But, I did not think about using isopropyl rubbing alcohol, which is cheap
and readily available at Costco.

The reason I didn't think of it is because it in and of itself didn't work
at all, but if I use it to cut the gas at 10 parts alcohol to 1 part
gasoline, it might have enough gas to still work.

I will try that and let you know.

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:35:10 -0500, JC wrote:

> You are the fucking idiot that ALWAYS turns up at a wet bonfire arn't you.

This is a thinking question for scientists; not a nanny question.

> Well if you really want to set fire to your house you can add denatured
> alcohol, available in walmart but really, gasoline just stinks and I
> wouldn't want it anywhere in my house. Garage is bad enough.

I think the methanol suggestion is probably best, but the problem is that
getting any alcohol in California is problematic.

Looking up "denatured alcohol" for Walmart this says the item is no longer
available:
Klean Strip Denatured Alcohol, 1qt, Walmart #: 001252149
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Klean-Strip-Denatured-Alcohol-1qt/17208795

> Removing goop/labels.
>
> 1) Try WD40
> 2? Try WD40 and denatured alcohol combined.

I have never found WD-40 to be useful, and it stinks (to me) far worse than
does gasoline. It gives me a headache.

> 3) Dependent on what the goop is on and if its painted add a drop of
> Acetone (also in Walmart) or use pure Acetone.

I have plenty of acetone but it doesn't work well on most of the goo (but it
works great on removing painted stuff on plastic). My kids use my shop
acetone as a fingernail polish remover and it works great for that too (but
dries their skin).

Acetone tends to melt far more stuff than did the gasoline.
As I said in the OP, I gave up on the acetone, but, I didn't think of using
it as the solution to cut the gasoline.

So I will try a small amount of 50:50 acetone to gasoline, which will be my
starter fluid.

> 4) Isopropyl alcohol 90% (Walmart) shifts stuff 1-3 wont.

Since rubbing alcohol didn't work in and of itself, I hadn't thought of
using it as the diluent, but it has the best chance of working.

So, I think I'll try out a 50:50 mix of rubbing alcohol and gasoline to see
how that works and then dilute further from there if it works well.

> 5) White spirit is almost as effective as gasoline, again add Acetone if
> the subject wont be damaged.

It's problematic to get petroleum distillates in California, but they're
probably second only to the alcohol for cutting the gasoline. I will head
off to the hardware store to see what California spirits are still sold on
the shelves.

> Don't use gasoline, it stinks and will blow up when your fag smoking
> missus walks in.

What are you going to tell me when I tell you I actually use a chainsaw in
my back yard (without wearing leather pants!!!!!!!!!!!)?

Or that I actually climb up on a ladder or on my roof to clean the gutters
(without wearing an OSHA harness!!!!!!)?

Or that I actually light a fire inside my fireplace using actual matches and
wood tinder (without calling the Fire Department hotline ahead of time)?

Plus, you didn't even warn me about the gas going in my septic system!

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:25:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> I bet the guys down at the firehouse know what to use. You should go
> down and ask them.

I knew there would be nanny comments which add zero value.

I'm surmised you didn't nanny me on septic system comments in addition to
the fire house comment though.

StorminNormin kept to the scientific point, which was clearly what this
thread is about.

This is a thinking question for scientists; not a nanny question for
pussies.

This thread is only about what's the best readily available cheap solvent to
cut gasoline with so that the gas remains a solvent but has fewer of its
natural deleterious properties.

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 17:15:08 -0800, Oren wrote:

> Lighter fluid, NAPHTHA!
>
> Did you try peanut butter on the labels?

Butane might cut gasoline, as you suggested.
Naptha is almost certain verboten in California.

But I'm not sure.
It's got to be sold in order for me to use it though.

I don't see naptha at Home Depot for example.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Paint-Paint-Thinner-Additives-Solvents-Cleaners-Paint-Thinner-Solvents-Cleaners/Paint-Thinners-and-Strippers/N-5yc1vZc5bmZ1z0t5hf

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 18:50:09 -0600, Dean Hoffman wrote:

> Have you tried diesel fuel or kerosene to
> remove labels?

Gasoline works best so far, but I have not tried home heating oil, but my
house is heated by propane.

I can try to cut the gasoline with kerosene though, which might be available
in California stores.

Otherwise, I'm going to have to purchase a yellow container because they
won't let you fuel into anything else if I buy it at the pump.

[Dean Hoffman]

Lantern fuel?

[Ken Layton]

I use common cigarette lighter fluid available everywhere in the tobacco section.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:05:58 -0000 (UTC), Robert

Bannon <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>
>I've already tried all the common home chemicals from alcohol to acetone to
>lemon juice to engine degreaser to dish detergent to brake cleaner to windex
>to automatic-transmission fluid and MAF cleaner, all of which work sometimes
>but all of which fail often (either because they melt the container or they
>don't dissolve the goo).

I wamted to teach you about orange cleaner. It's not on your list.

>
>I've even tried common flavorings such as orange blossom extract, rose

Not the same thing at all.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 01:23:05 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon wrote:

> Or that I actually light a fire inside my fireplace using actual matches and
> wood tinder (without calling the Fire Department hotline ahead of time)?

BTW, I don't mean to chastise you unduly, as you did try to help
scientifically.

It's just that telling me the obvious stuff about gasoline isn't helpful
since we all know the obvious stuff.

Of course, if mixing gasoline with, say, naphtha causes it to become
unstable or explosive or something like that which is NOT OBVIOUS, then by
all means warn me.

But to warn me that a chain saw can cut off my finger, or that I can fall
off a ladder or winding a garage door spring is dangerous or that running
while holding sharp scissors can hurt someone, is just wasting everyone's
time stating the obvious to people who know it already.

So, I'm ok with 'real' warnings. Just not useless California nanny warnings.
Make sense?

[JC]

Well, I'm just really glad I don't live in Califailia. I do like my
solvents.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:05:58 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute for removing labels.

If the base material can tolerate some heat, use a hot air heat gun:
"How to Remove Stickers and Labels Using Heat"
<http://www.todayshomeowner.com/video/how-to-remove-stickers-and-labels-using-heat/>

I don't know what kind of labels you're using, but the ones that I
have to remove from customers laptops uses easy to remove rubber
cement type glue, that is easily dissolved with almost any hydrocarbon
solvent. The trick is to let the solvent soak into the paper label or
soften the edge of a metal label. I think I use paint thinner.

However, I sometimes run into old labels where the glue has hardened
to something like a rock. For those, I mechanically scrape off most
of the label with a plastic razor blade paint scraper, and then attack
with the solvent.
<https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Double-Edged-Razor-Scraper/dp/B004623NU2>

Well, you could try using something that was actually formulated for
removing labels:
3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner, Quart, 08984
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZIM9XPI>
Ouch. Rather expensive at $25/quart.
SDS shows interesting and noxious chemicals:
<http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00x4xt9PxmxOv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS-->
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
Xylene 1330-20-7 30 - 60 Trade Secret *
Hydrotreated Light Naphtha (Petroleum)
64742-49-0 30 - 60 Trade Secret *
Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 7 - 13 Trade Secret *
Toluene 108-88-3 0.5 - 1.5 Trade Secret *
Benzene 71-43-2 < 0.1 Trade Secret *
For naphtha, use Coleman camp fuel. Xylene and toluene are no longer
available in California, so those won't work.

There are made for purpose label removers, all of which really smell
awful. Goop-Off, Un-Du, Turtle Wax T-529, Goo-Gone, etc.

Then, there are the home concoctions:
<https://www.pinterest.com/explore/remove-sticky-labels/>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The only thing I know of that will "dilute" gasoline and make it
less flammable is Carbon Tet - which has serious safety issues itself
and has been illegal for years.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

But "real men" are not "totally" stupid. They mitigate danger where
it makes sense - and in your case it does. I hope you haven't fathered
any kids yet - the world doesn't need any more Bannons with yout
cheap-assed attitude. Buy a commercial goo remover that is safe
(relatively) to use - and use it outside in fresh air - because they
ALL STINK.

[whit3rd]

On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 4:06:00 PM UTC-8, Robert Bannon wrote:
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?
>

> I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute ...

The non-abrasive/non-orange waterless hand cleaners will make alkanes
emulsify and wash away with water. Instead of gasoline, just use a few drops
of odorless paint thinner, applied with an eyedropper.

Then rub some goop on it and wash off.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Except rubbing alcohol is about 30% water (up to over 50%)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

or "camp gas"

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 22:15:33 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

d-limonene,

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Naptha won't help the flammabilty/explosive danger. Butane is even
worse. Methanol is corrosive, VERY flammable and poisonous (absorbs
through the skin too)

Dichloromethane may be an alternative but it has serious health risks
as well

[Mike Duffy]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 03:45:42 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon wrote:

> So, I'm ok with 'real' warnings. Just not useless California nanny warnings.
> Make sense?

My favorite 'nanny' warning from childhood was on a package of sodium
hypochlorite pool conditioner: 'Do not mix with brake fluid'.

Who would ever get the idea to make such a mixture otherwise?

PS: Make sure you are outside if you want to try this. It would also be a
good idea to put on safety goggles as well. And be patient. When the smoke
starts, don't attempt to speed things up by adding more of anything.

[dadiOH]

"Robert Bannon" <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote in message

news:o0o9ho$6m0$2...@news.mixmin.net...

> On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:37:42 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
>
>> oil
>> alcohol
>
> The two-stroke oil idea made sense that it will mix with gasoline, but
> it's
> oily which seems to defeat the goal.

Use detergent after.

> The alchol is almost certainly the best idea, but I was thinking
> "ethanol",
> which is only available diluted with water (as vodka, for example), which
> is
> too much water in California where even everclear is restricted in
> concentration by the nanny state (and probably too expensive anyway).

If you live near the border, go to Tijuana, go to a liquor store and buy
agua diente, It is pure (180 proof) ethanol. Fifty years ago it was $0.50
per liter, going to be more now.

[Frank]

+ He does not know that I am a retired chemist. I survived many fires
and explosions and release of toxic materials in the lab so I sorta know
what I am talking about. Then from the technical side, if the gasoline
is diluted the polar characteristics will change and it may not function
the same.

[Stormin' Norman]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:49:21 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:


>I'll head off to the hardware store to see what California chemicals I can
>find that are cheap and that are solvents that I can cut at a 10:1 ratio of
>solvent to gasoline.

I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal. If the odor is too offensive for your manly
sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form. If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
pervasive.

With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.

If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.

Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
year old child.

[bitrex]

On 11/18/2016 08:23 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:

> Acetone tends to melt far more stuff than did the gasoline.
> As I said in the OP, I gave up on the acetone, but, I didn't think of using
> it as the solution to cut the gasoline.

One time, not thinking what I was doing, I poured a little hardware
store acetone into a Styrofoam cup, and instantly ended up with a big
gloppy mess of acetone and melted Styrofoam on my lap.

Then I felt dumb.

[bitrex]

On 11/18/2016 11:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> There are made for purpose label removers, all of which really smell
> awful. Goop-Off, Un-Du, Turtle Wax T-529, Goo-Gone, etc.

Tangentially related: if you ever discover to your horror that you have
some white deodorant residue on a black dress shirt, Armor All interior
detailer spray gets it right off.

Don't ask how I came to know this.

[Andy Burns]

Stormin' Norman wrote:

> I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal. If
> the odor is too offensive for your manly sensibilities, buy the
> product in liquid form.

Dedicated label remover is better than WD-40 and the orange smell is
quite nice.

<https://youtu.be/b4Cu1tYpc64>

No, he doesn't compare petrol to the others :-P

[Jon Danniken]

On 11/18/16 5:05 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?
>

> What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and dilute it
> (maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?

>
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

Naptha, AKA lighter fluid (Ronson brand) or paint thinner). Or "white
gas" AKA camping gas (coleman gas, or the stuff they sell at REI by the
quart).

Jon

p.s. Don't do it, it's dangerous, you'll blow up the neighborhood, blah
blah blah.

[amdx]

I remove the labels on some 3.5 gallon food grade buckets by cutting
paper towel the size of the label, lay it over the label and then put
just enough Xylene on the paper towel to wet it. I wait 5 minutes and
the label will peel off whole with no problem. Sometimes I need to use
the paper towel to remove residual glue.
Before I found that, I could spend a hour scraping off the label. now
I can get 20 done in less than an hour.
Mikek

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It will also REALLY piss off your insurance company - even if stored
in a sealed "listed" container.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Gasoline does the same thing. Might take twice as long but you still
measure it in seconds and fractions there-of.

[Oren]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 02:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 17:15:08 -0800, Oren wrote:
>
>> Lighter fluid, NAPHTHA!
>>
>> Did you try peanut butter on the labels?
>
>Butane might cut gasoline, as you suggested.
>Naptha is almost certain verboten in California.
>

For removing labels I was suggesting lighter fluid (NAPHTHA) to remove
labels. Not suggesting mixing it with gas. I removes labels, tar,
grease & oil stains. <https://tinyurl.com/hpzopew>


I wasn't joking about peanut butter (smooth variety) either. It takes
longer so the oil soaks in and loosens the label. YMMV

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 20:35:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Well, you could try using something that was actually formulated for
> removing labels:

> Ouch. Rather expensive at $25/quart.

Exactly.
1. Water, which is 1 cent a gallon, works fine to remove most paper labels
off of most grocery store jars (which is my application).

2. Gasoline, at $3 a gallon, works fine on most of the remaining underlying
goops. I use the gasoline outside, and I wash the jar of the gasoline, but
the stink still transfers into the house unless I air it outside for a day.

3. When the underlying goop is resistant to gasoline, usually acetone or MAF
cleaner does the trick.

That's my cheap, readily available 2-step (sometimes 3-step) process for
removing labels from food jars for further use of the jar.

> MSDS shows interesting and noxious chemicals:

> <http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00x4xt9PxmxOv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS-->
> Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
> Xylene 1330-20-7 30 - 60 Trade Secret *
> Hydrotreated Light Naphtha (Petroleum)
> 64742-49-0 30 - 60 Trade Secret *
> Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 7 - 13 Trade Secret *
> Toluene 108-88-3 0.5 - 1.5 Trade Secret *
> Benzene 71-43-2 < 0.1 Trade Secret *

Like you, I love the MSDS because they give you the list of noxious things
in the can (they don't need to list non-noxious stuff though).

This one looks suspiciously similar to gasoline, by the way, in that
gasoline contains the same stuff (almost certainly in different percentages
though).

> For naphtha, use Coleman camp fuel. Xylene and toluene are no longer
> available in California, so those won't work.

I definately tried Coleman Camp Fuel in the past, since I had about 4 cans
of the stuff. It didn't work anywhere nearly as well as gasoline did, and it
stunk too. It's almost certainly less flammable though.

I also tried charcoal lighter fluid, which was just as bad at removing the
goop as was the Coleman fuel.

So, whatever they put in those cans, is no good for the task of removing the
underlying goop under labels (once the label is removed by soaking in
water).

> There are made for purpose label removers, all of which really smell
> awful. Goop-Off, Un-Du, Turtle Wax T-529, Goo-Gone, etc.

Yup. The label removers are no better than gasoline, as far as I know, when
it comes to removing the underlying adhesive under most food-jar labels.

They're only better than gasoline in that they're not flammable, which is
why I use the gasoline outside currently.

> Then, there are the home concoctions:
> <https://www.pinterest.com/explore/remove-sticky-labels/>

Not one of those seems to use gasoline, even though it's clearly and
obviously a fantastic solvent (which I've used for years and which works
fine for removing the goop).

The main problem with gasoline is that it needs to be used outside.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 01:33:48 -0500, Mike Duffy wrote:

> My favorite 'nanny' warning from childhood was on a package of sodium
> hypochlorite pool conditioner: 'Do not mix with brake fluid'.
>
> Who would ever get the idea to make such a mixture otherwise?
>
> PS: Make sure you are outside if you want to try this. It would also be a
> good idea to put on safety goggles as well. And be patient. When the smoke
> starts, don't attempt to speed things up by adding more of anything.

Here, in California, we are so inundated with such silly nanny warnings that
we become inured to them.

It's a big business just selling the signs, for heaven's sake!
https://www.google.com/search?q=california+warning+stickers

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 10:51:07 -0600, amdx wrote:

> I remove the labels on some 3.5 gallon food grade buckets by cutting
> paper towel the size of the label, lay it over the label and then put
> just enough Xylene on the paper towel to wet it. I wait 5 minutes and
> the label will peel off whole with no problem. Sometimes I need to use
> the paper towel to remove residual glue.
> Before I found that, I could spend a hour scraping off the label. now
> I can get 20 done in less than an hour.
> Mikek

As Jeff said, we can't get Xylene in California.

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:52:10 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> d-limonene,

Fran, the retired chemist, will have to let us know *how* that d-limonene
works for removing the goop.

Remember, removing most labels is so easy to do with just plain old soaking
in water, that the problem isn't removing the label.

The problem is removing the underlying goop.

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:43:42 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> But "real men" are not "totally" stupid.

Agreed.
We wear goggles (sometimes) when cutting wood.

But, do you read the warning on California hammers?
They suggest you wear goggles every time you hammer a nail.

Nothing wrong with goggles. I have a half dozen myself.
But every time you hammer a nail?

> They mitigate danger where
> it makes sense - and in your case it does.

I wear a helmet, boots, and gloves when I ride a motorcycle.
You don't need to tell me that riding a motorcycle is dangerous.

Tell me something I don't know.
Otherwise you're wasting everyone's time.

That was my only point in preventing people telling me that the otherwise
excellent solvent has deleterious properties (that everyone already knows).

> I hope you haven't fathered
> any kids yet - the world doesn't need any more Bannons with yout
> cheap-assed attitude.

Grandkids. All Roman Catholic.
You're doomed.
:)

> Buy a commercial goo remover that is safe
> (relatively) to use - and use it outside in fresh air - because they
> ALL STINK.

1. Water works fine to remove most paper labels.
Water is much cheaper than anything else you can suggest for removing the
label.

2. Gasoline works fine to remove most goop under the labels.
The only problem with gasoline is that it (a) stinks and (b) is flammable.
Outside is no problem, which is how I do it currently.

But the goal is to dilute the gasoline 10:1 so that it can be stored and
used inside. The scientific trick is to find a good diluent that negates the
deleterious properties of the gasoline.

If that's too difficult a scientific problem for you, I understand.
Engineering a solution isn't always as simple as buying something off the
shelf.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 08:30:51 -0500, Frank wrote:

> + He does not know that I am a retired chemist. I survived many fires
> and explosions and release of toxic materials in the lab so I sorta know
> what I am talking about. Then from the technical side, if the gasoline
> is diluted the polar characteristics will change and it may not function
> the same.

That's interesting that you're a retired chemist.
My chemistry training stopped after Organic Chemistry (Morrison and Boyd) in
college.

Water is polar.
But are you sure gasoline is polar?

There must be a good reason gasoline is the best solvent for removing label
goop, so, if you're saying the reason is its polarity, all we need to do is
find a solvent with similar polarity.

But I've never found a solvent better than gasoline for removing the
underlying goop (although no one solvent works at all times).

I'll google to see if gasoline is polar, but it may get complex because
there is no one "chemical" called "gasoline". It's a mix of alkanes,
alkenes, alkynes and aromatics (but I'll doublecheck since that's off the
cuff).

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 11:57:56 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Gasoline does the same thing. Might take twice as long but you still
> measure it in seconds and fractions there-of.

Yup. Every kid has melted a huge box of stryofoam peanuts into a cup of
gasoline to make what the kids call 'napalm' (at least we did in the Vietnam
war days when we were young kids).

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 07:04:41 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

> If you live near the border, go to Tijuana, go to a liquor store and buy
> agua diente, It is pure (180 proof) ethanol. Fifty years ago it was $0.50
> per liter, going to be more now.

California is a big state (which is why they get away with being whacko)
where I'm nowhere near the border. Too bad. That's a great price for 90%
alcohol and 10% water.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 09:39:11 -0500, bitrex wrote:

> One time, not thinking what I was doing, I poured a little hardware
> store acetone into a Styrofoam cup, and instantly ended up with a big
> gloppy mess of acetone and melted Styrofoam on my lap.

Every kid I know of (including me) has made what we called "napalm" simply
by melting the Styrofoam peanuts into a cup of gasoline.

We made better jellied gasoline using dish detergent, but I think it's a
pretty common experience for kids world wide to melt styrofoam into
gasoline.

All kids made pipe bombs too, which were far more dangerous when you compare
it, just as we all mixed the pool chemicals that exploded in a gush. Most of
the time we were more cautious than we needed to be, especially when playing
with the M80's under the ice.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:03:06 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Naptha won't help the flammabilty/explosive danger.

Thanks for looking at the problem from a scientific standpoint.

The main issue is that gasoline is a *fantastic* readily available and cheap
(relatively) solvent for eliminating the goop under the labels (after the
label is removed by soaking in water); but gasoline (a) stinks, and (b) is
flammable.

So all we're trying to do is reduce those two deleterious qualities:
a. Lower the stink (or mask it with a better stink perhaps)
b. Lower the flammability issue (probably by lowering the quantity)

Looking at naphtha as the diluent and gasoline as the solvent, and assuming
something around a 1:10 ratio of diluent to solvent, the first thing I find
is that naphtha is, like gasoline, not a single chemical in and of itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_naphtha

Looking up whether naphtha is a good diluent for gasoline, people do it:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/10/20131008-naphtha.html

But the results were too complex for me to glean the gist of the results in
a single skim, so I'll move on to the next suggestion for the moment.

> Butane is even worse.
I don't see butane readily available either.
It might be (e.g., lighter refills), but it seems too flammable for me to
consider as the diluent.

> Methanol is corrosive, VERY flammable and poisonous (absorbs
> through the skin too)

The problem, I think, with *any* alcohol, is that they're gonna dilute it
with water, and water isn't what we want to mix with the gasoline, so,
unless we can find reagent grade alcohols, I think alcohol that we do find
will have water in it.

> Dichloromethane may be an alternative but it has serious health risks
> as well

Is that a common household chemical?

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:16:28 -0500, JC wrote:

> Well, I'm just really glad I don't live in Califailia. I do like my
> solvents.

I am hoping that the solvent that we scientifically come up with is not only
readily available, but that it *lowers* the negative qualities of gasoline.

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:37:20 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> The only thing I know of that will "dilute" gasoline and make it
> less flammable is Carbon Tet - which has serious safety issues itself
> and has been illegal for years.

This is interesting, even though carbon tetrachloride is probably difficult
to get and hence isn't a standard household chemical.

You have a good point in that the goal of dilution is to reduce the
deleterious qualities of the gasoline, which, let's face it, works just fine
as a label goop remover.

The problem with the gasoline is obvious though, so that's what I'm trying
to reduce by diluting with some other common household chemical.

I was hoping that the dilution would reduce the negative complications of
gasoline.

From the scientific standpoint (which is really what I'm after), are you
saying that a 50:50 mixture of methanol and gasoline would be *more*
flammable than a 100% mixture of either one?

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:51:39 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

> Dedicated label remover is better than WD-40 and the orange smell is
> quite nice.
>
> <https://youtu.be/b4Cu1tYpc64>
>
> No, he doesn't compare petrol to the others :-P

Thanks for that video.

The video underscores the fact that no one solvent works in all cases, so
all we really are looking for is a solvent that works most of the time.

The video also underscores the *confusion* that surrounds removing labels.

They tested against paper labels the following removers:
1. Maplin Label Remover
2. Zinsser Universal Degreaser & Cleaner
3. WD-40
4. Methylated spirits

The confusion is that the video highlights that there are two *separate*
problems, one of which I've solved long ago, but both of which they are
attacking.

1. Removing a (paper in this case) label
2. Removing the underlying goop

I only am attacking the underlying goop, since soaking removes paper labels
quite well already.

IMHO, when I'm looking for a cheap readily available household chemical to
remove the goop, I don't need to make the problem *harder* by also asking
that chemical to remove the (paper in this case) label, especially since
there is already a cheap readily available household solved (aka dihydrogen
oxide) which removes paper labels quite handily.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:38:22 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

> I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal.

I hear you on the miracle-in-a-can as I knew about it, and had tried it
years ago, and decided it was a myth. But I can try it again, especially if,
as you say, they supply a liquid version of this miracle in a can.

> If the odor is too offensive for your manly
> sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form.

I appreciate that advice since I didn't know they made a liquid form.
I have only used the spray, and found it to be substandard in every way for
"lubrication" and "protection" of metal-on-metal surfaces.

> If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
> pervasive.

Thank you for that point, which I agree with you on, which is that for my
use, the miracle in a can will best be the liquid version.

> With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
> minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.

Interesting that you mention a "label".
I always remove the label first, generally by soaking in plain old water.
Once I have the label removed, that's where I need the solvent to remove the
goop.

> If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
> is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.

I think I've tried it, but I see I don't have any on my shelves at the
moment, so, if California will allow me to buy it, I'll pick up some lacquer
thinner if it's still sold.

> Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
> residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
> year old child.

And wipe your shoes before you come in the house.
Otherwise, someone might slip on the mud.

[Tekkie®]

Robert Bannon posted for all of us...

> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?
>

AS a FF I was going to let this pass but I see from some of your replies are
less than "manly" as you put it.

Please let me know where you live, when you are going to do it and if there
are innocent victims in your abode. I will update the run card and CAD so
responders will not endanger themselves to recover your charred
unrecognizable remains.

--
Tekkie

[Stormin' Norman]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:29 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:38:22 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:
>
>> I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal.
>
>I hear you on the miracle-in-a-can as I knew about it, and had tried it
>years ago, and decided it was a myth. But I can try it again, especially if,
>as you say, they supply a liquid version of this miracle in a can.

You can get a gallon of it for about $17 through Amazon. That should last you for years.

>
>> If the odor is too offensive for your manly
>> sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form.
>
>I appreciate that advice since I didn't know they made a liquid form.
>I have only used the spray, and found it to be substandard in every way for
>"lubrication" and "protection" of metal-on-metal surfaces.

That is because it is a penetrating oil and water displacement agent. It was originally developed for
protecting the outer skin and the fuel tanks of the Atlas missile.

>
>> If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
>> pervasive.
>
>Thank you for that point, which I agree with you on, which is that for my
>use, the miracle in a can will best be the liquid version.
>
>> With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
>> minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.
>
>Interesting that you mention a "label".
>I always remove the label first, generally by soaking in plain old water.
>Once I have the label removed, that's where I need the solvent to remove the
>goop.
>
>> If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
>> is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.
>
>I think I've tried it, but I see I don't have any on my shelves at the
>moment, so, if California will allow me to buy it, I'll pick up some lacquer
>thinner if it's still sold.

A gallon through Amazon should be less than $20. I really hate going to Home Depot. The gallons are a much
better deal than quarts.

>
>> Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
>> residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
>> year old child.
>
>And wipe your shoes before you come in the house.
>Otherwise, someone might slip on the mud.

Good advice, wiping your shoes also helps keep unnecessary dirt out of the house. One of our critters is a
very sweet, personable and affectionate donkey. Every opportunity she gets to come in the house, she sneaks
in, she doesn't ever cause a problem, other than the dirt that comes in on her hooves.

[burfordTjustice]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:05:58 -0000 (UTC)
Robert Bannon <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute
> gasoline?
>

> I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute for removing labels.

> Most often I do it outside, because of the stink, but I want to keep
> it inside in tiny amounts, diluted as much as possible.
>
> I've already tried all the common home chemicals from alcohol to
> acetone to lemon juice to engine degreaser to dish detergent to brake
> cleaner to windex to automatic-transmission fluid and MAF cleaner,
> all of which work sometimes but all of which fail often (either
> because they melt the container or they don't dissolve the goo).
>
> I've even tried common flavorings such as orange blossom extract, rose
> water, pure lemon extract, coconut oil and walnut oil, which,
> surprisingly, are totally useless (but they do smell the best!).
>
> I've found, through decades of experience, that gasoline, which also
> fails sometimes, works more often than any other household common
> chemical.
>
> But gasoline has all the problems that most of you will love to
> "teach" me, but that's not the question (so please don't try to teach
> me why gasoline vapors are flammable and why I should goo-be-gone
> outdoors because I know that).
>
> Also please don't try to teach me that there are commercial lemon-oil
> solutions.
>
> I just want to dilute the gasoline and I already know that even the
> diluted gasoline vapors will be flammable. We take risks sometimes
> when working around the house and not being a pussy about it all the
> time.
>
> So I plan to keep a small jar of gasoline properly labeled under the
> kitchen sink (let's not go into the dangers of doing that, because
> properly diluting it won't solve that danger for the most part).
>
> Without being a pussy about the question, do you have any suggestion
> that you think might work best to dilute the gasoline 10:1 (or even
> 100:1) so that I'm using the minimum effective amount of gasoline
> indoors?

>
> What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and
> dilute it (maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?
>

> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute
> gasoline?

Acorn Flour works best.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 10:57:44 -0800, Oren wrote:

> For removing labels I was suggesting lighter fluid (NAPHTHA) to remove
> labels. Not suggesting mixing it with gas. I removes labels, tar,
> grease & oil stains. <https://tinyurl.com/hpzopew>

The problem isn't removing the label, but the goop under the label once the
label is removed.

The Naphtha probably works but does it work better than gasoline?
Dunno.

I'd need to find naphtha in the stores to test it out against gasoline
(which works just fine for removing most goop).

In the rare case that gasoline fails to remove the goop, acetone often works
(but acetone fails more than does gasoline).

> I wasn't joking about peanut butter (smooth variety) either. It takes
> longer so the oil soaks in and loosens the label. YMMV

I just use water to remove the label.
a. I fill the jar with water so it sinks
b. I drop it into a larger bucket of water

You can't beat water for being a readily available household chemical.
But water only removes the label.

My problem is removing the goop.
You can't beat gasoline for being a readily available household chemical for
removing the goop.

The only problem with the gasoline is it has to be used outdoors.
So that's why I'm trying to find how to make it so that it can be used
indoors.

[Oren]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:40:36 -0500, Tekkie® <Tek...@comcast.net>
wrote:

... sometimes it isn't worth chewing through the restraints :-\

[dadiOH]

"Robert Bannon" <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:o0q7v9$tte$1...@news.mixmin.net...

>> Butane is even worse.
> I don't see butane readily available either.
> It might be (e.g., lighter refills), but it seems too flammable for me to
> consider as the diluent.

Wouldn't work even if it weren't flammable since it is only a liquid when
under pressure.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:02:42 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

> Wouldn't work even if it weren't flammable since it is only a liquid when
> under pressure.

Good point. I didn't even think of that.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Forget the peanut butter. Peanut OIL is what does the job - the
"butter" is just a carrier

[pf...@aol.com]

On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 7:06:00 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannon wrote:

I hereby nominate Robert Bannon for an anticipatory Darwin Award. Usually they are awarded posthumously, but he is such a "real man" that I thought he may wish to enjoy it in advance.

Real Men are responsible for themselves and others, and typically avoid all forms of ritual suicide, including the breathing of benzine-based fumes indoors. Can you say CARCINOGEN? For sure, you cannot spell it.

Sheesh!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Oren]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 17:54:41 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Forget the peanut butter. Peanut OIL is what does the job - the
>"butter" is just a carrier

But the "butter" holds the oil on :- )

...or try vegetable oil to soak the labels.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Charcoal lighter fluid is usually undistinguishable from "varsol" ot
"mineral spirits".

Coleman fuel, or "white gas" has virtually the same flammability as
regular gasoline but burns cleaner and has an octane of about 50 - the
same as the old "straight run" gasoline from the '20s.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The reason one solvent doesn't work all the time is there are so
many "glues" used to attach labels.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:22 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:43:42 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> But "real men" are not "totally" stupid.
>
>Agreed.
>We wear goggles (sometimes) when cutting wood.
>
>But, do you read the warning on California hammers?
>They suggest you wear goggles every time you hammer a nail.
>
>Nothing wrong with goggles. I have a half dozen myself.
>But every time you hammer a nail?
>

My perscription bifocal glasses are listed safety glasses - and
without them I'm not sure I'd hit the "right" nail . . .

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Also known as Methylene Chloride it is the main component of many
paint strippers. It is not generally available for retail sale in it's
"raw" form.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:26 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

[Oren]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
>either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
>itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Model T Fords would run on moonshine added to leaded gas :-)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The big danger with methanol combustion is you can't see the light
blue flame in a well lighted room - or even a poorly lighted one..
Other than that it is actually inherently safer than gasoline - and
the mixture is more dangerous than straight methanol as far as fire is
concerned.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:29 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:38:22 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:
>
>> I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal.
>
>I hear you on the miracle-in-a-can as I knew about it, and had tried it
>years ago, and decided it was a myth. But I can try it again, especially if,
>as you say, they supply a liquid version of this miracle in a can.
>
>> If the odor is too offensive for your manly
>> sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form.
>
>I appreciate that advice since I didn't know they made a liquid form.
>I have only used the spray, and found it to be substandard in every way for
>"lubrication" and "protection" of metal-on-metal surfaces.
>
>> If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
>> pervasive.
>
>Thank you for that point, which I agree with you on, which is that for my
>use, the miracle in a can will best be the liquid version.
>
>> With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
>> minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.
>
>Interesting that you mention a "label".
>I always remove the label first, generally by soaking in plain old water.
>Once I have the label removed, that's where I need the solvent to remove the
>goop.

Perhaps the "single step" method using "miracle in a can" would be the
sinpler way????

>
>> If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
>> is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.
>
>I think I've tried it, but I see I don't have any on my shelves at the
>moment, so, if California will allow me to buy it, I'll pick up some lacquer
>thinner if it's still sold.
>
>> Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
>> residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
>> year old child.
>
>And wipe your shoes before you come in the house.
>Otherwise, someone might slip on the mud.

Turn your boots over and shake them before you put them on to be sure
there is no mouse or scorpian in your boot (or shoe)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Or below 31 degrees F at atmospheric pressure (sea level standard)

[tom]

"Oren" <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:vsn13cdeee0kmqcma...@4ax.com...

I thought the leaded gas was added to the moonshine.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <o0o515$r7r$1...@news.mixmin.net>,

Robert Bannon <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

[snip]

> Without being a pussy about the question, do you have any suggestion that
> you think might work best to dilute the gasoline 10:1 (or even 100:1) so
> that I'm using the minimum effective amount of gasoline indoors?
>
> What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and dilute it
> (maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?
>

> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

The thread has 84 responses, some of which ignore your question to
advise you on safety.

If you're going for cheaper, I think anything you can find to dilute the
gasoline will be nearly as costly as the gasoline.

I know you want to do the label removal in the house, but wouldn't it be
better to do this final step outside? Surely you can save up the jars
until there is a sunny, breezy day? Also, you'll keep gasoline from
going down the sink drain (you mentioned a sink in what I deleted).

If ethanol works, how about isopropyl alcohol, a near relative?

Use a single edge razor blade to get most of the goop off, then use the
gasoline. Do the jars in batches for efficiency.

charles, that's all I've got

[Phil Allison]

Robert Bannon wrote:
>
>
> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?
>

> I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute for removing labels.
> Most often I do it outside, because of the stink, but I want to keep it
> inside in tiny amounts, diluted as much as possible.
>

** The adhesives used on most labels soften with heat - so a hot air gun will allow you to peel or scrape it off easily. The label itself stops solvents from penetrating through to the adhesive.

Any residual can be cleaned up with mineral turps.

I find "Eucalyptus Oil" a good solvent too.


.... Phil

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:19 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>Yup. The label removers are no better than gasoline, as far as I know, when
>it comes to removing the underlying adhesive under most food-jar labels.

They work fairly well for me. Getting the oily residue off of
absorbent materials is my main objects. Number 2 objection is the
smell.

I went by Scarborough (Ace) Hardware today. What they have on the
shelf are:
Acetone
Denatured Alcohol
Lacquer Thinner
Paint Thinner
Turpentine
Mineral Spirits
Japan Dryer
Painters Solvent (replaces MEK, toluene, xylene, VM+P Naphtha).
That's it. All the good stuff is gone.

MSDS for Exxon regular gasoline:
<http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/Download.aspx?ID=83534&docFormat=RTF>
Looks like it contains all your favorite missing VOC's. According to
the MSDS, gasoline is a mix of butane, isobutane, pentane, and
isopentane. I'm surprised that the California Air Resources Board
hasn't banned gasoline.

So, by using gasoline for cleaning and label removal, you're dumping
VOCs into the atmosphere. If there was a reward, I would probably
turn you in for re-education and brain washing (using an eco friend
brain wash cleaner).


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Raymond Spruance III]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:11:04 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> The reason one solvent doesn't work all the time is there are so
> many "glues" used to attach labels.

I understand.

You might not notice but I don't believe anyone who says any one solve works
all the time, because it's just not going to happen.

You'll notice that I take pains to say that the gasoline works "most" of the
time, and "more" so than the other solvents that I have tried (with acetone
coming in second to gasoline but a distant second at that).

Also, I didn't realize you guys actually put the solvent *on* the label,
which I never do.

I remove the labels first, and only *after* the label is gone, do I use the
solvent to try to get rid of the goop.

So some of us (e.g., peanut oil Oren! :) ) are attacking different problems.

[Raymond Spruance III]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:31:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> So, by using gasoline for cleaning and label removal, you're dumping
> VOCs into the atmosphere. If there was a reward, I would probably
> turn you in for re-education and brain washing (using an eco friend
> brain wash cleaner).

Yikes. And I invited you to our weekly inventors luncheon too!

:)

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 17:19:41 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

> If ethanol works, how about isopropyl alcohol, a near relative?

The problem with *any* alcohol, is getting it without the water.

I guess mixing gasoline with water might not be a bad idea though.

Dunno. I never tried it.

But that's the theoretical problem with consumer alcohol (which is a lot of
water with some alcohol).

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
> either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
> itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Actually, while you're probably right in a *practical* sense, I'm sure there
are zillions of things that can dilute gasoline.

For example, Jeff already looked up what is in gasoline, so, diluting the
gasoline with any of those compounds would *probably* work.

Jeff mentioned for example,
a. butane,
b. isobutane,
c. pentane, and
d. isopentane.

Note to Jeff: I'm not sure if that is accurate though, because there must be
alkenes and alkynes, and aromatics too; but the point is that anything that
is *in* gas (which is a *lot* of things should be able to dilute it.

However, none of them appear to be 'common household chemicals'.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:29:18 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> The big danger with methanol combustion is you can't see the light
> blue flame in a well lighted room - or even a poorly lighted one..
> Other than that it is actually inherently safer than gasoline - and
> the mixture is more dangerous than straight methanol as far as fire is
> concerned.

I don't see alcohol, in any form, as viable, simply because I probably can't
easily get the alcohol without copious amounts of accompanying water.

[Raymond Spruance III]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:32:59 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Turn your boots over and shake them before you put them on to be sure
> there is no mouse or scorpian in your boot (or shoe)

Yup. That kind of advice. :)

It's the useless kind of advice that dumb mommy's love to give.

My sister keeps sending me these hoaxes to watch out for razor blades in my
kids halloween candy and to watch out for people selling cookies, etc.

There's a certain kind of person (most of those in the California Assembly,
in fact) who feel they need to be a nanny to everyone.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

They'd run on straight moonshine if you opened the jets enough.. Most
Model T's never saw "ethyl" gas as it was discovered in 1921 and
firstr sold retail in Dayton Ohio in 1923.. It was 1928 before you
could use leaded gas in NYC.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
<spruanc...@example.com> wrote:

I do wish you would use a single nym or alias, at least in the same
thread. It's becoming difficult to follow your various personality
changes.

You'll notice that I didn't attend. I don't invent, but prefer to
adapt or steal as required. I suspect that I would not be welcome.

Back to your original question about diluting gasoline, I'm wondering
why you need to dilute the gasoline. The best I could conjure is that
gasoline is expensive, being rather heavily taxed. Cutting it with a
cheaper untaxed hydrocarbon solvent might save a few pennies, but only
make sense if you're using gallons of the stuff. The problem is that
at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:31 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>For example, Jeff already looked up what is in gasoline, so, diluting the
>gasoline with any of those compounds would *probably* work.
>
>Jeff mentioned for example,
>a. butane,
>b. isobutane,
>c. pentane, and
>d. isopentane.
>
>Note to Jeff: I'm not sure if that is accurate though, because there must be
>alkenes and alkynes, and aromatics too; but the point is that anything that
>is *in* gas (which is a *lot* of things should be able to dilute it.

Nope. Please re-read what I ranted. Quoting myself:

MSDS for Exxon regular gasoline:

<http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/Download.aspx?ID=83534&docFormat=RTF>
Looks like it contains all your favorite missing VOC's. According
to the MSDS, gasoline is a mix of butane, isobutane, pentane, and
isopentane.

The items your listed are what is in the "gasoline" portion of Exxon
regular in addition to the other noxious and banned stuff listed in
the MSDS. Exxon cleverly lists the major component of gasoline is
gasoline which seems rather circular.

Gasoline FAQ:
See section 4.4 What are the hydrocarbons in gasoline?
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/index.html>

>However, none of them appear to be 'common household chemicals'.

Depends on the household. If cooking dinner is much like a chemstry
experiment, then that would be an uncommon but appropriate household.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Because of the evaporation rate of MOST of these solvents, using it
ON the label makes a lot of sense because it keeps the solvent in
contact with the glue longer before it evaporates. Try it.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Try it some day - it will NOT mix. (water with gasoline)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

TECHNICALLY adding anything that is part of gasoline is NOT diluting
it - in many cases it is making it "stronger"

I'm willing to bet there is NOTHING that will meet your requirements
as a "dilutent" for gasoline that will make it smell less, work as
well or better, be less dangerous, and not cost the moon.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

And IF you can fet it 200 proof (100%) it will not stay that way
because it is TERRIBLT Hydroscopic. It will absorb moisture out of
desert air!!!

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:34 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
<spruanc...@example.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:32:59 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> Turn your boots over and shake them before you put them on to be sure
>> there is no mouse or scorpian in your boot (or shoe)
>
>Yup. That kind of advice. :)
>
>It's the useless kind of advice that dumb mommy's love to give.

I don't call it useless advice depending where you are. I have had a
mouse in the bottom of my boot more than once on the farm, and
scorpians in my shoes several times in Africa.

[gregz]

Jet fuel. Plain kerosene.

Greg

[Andy Burns]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> How big or how many labels are you removing that the
> process requires gallons of gasoline?

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...

[Michael A. Terrell]

A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.


https://www.buycott.com/upc/070048779305/gz92-32oz-goo-gone

--
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

[Michael A. Terrell]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 10:57:44 -0800, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 02:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
>> <rba...@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 17:15:08 -0800, Oren wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lighter fluid, NAPHTHA!
>>>>
>>>> Did you try peanut butter on the labels?
>>>
>>> Butane might cut gasoline, as you suggested.
>>> Naptha is almost certain verboten in California.
>>>
>>
>> For removing labels I was suggesting lighter fluid (NAPHTHA) to remove
>> labels. Not suggesting mixing it with gas. I removes labels, tar,
>> grease & oil stains. <https://tinyurl.com/hpzopew>
>>
>>
>> I wasn't joking about peanut butter (smooth variety) either. It takes
>> longer so the oil soaks in and loosens the label. YMMV
>>
>>> But I'm not sure.
>>> It's got to be sold in order for me to use it though.
>>>
>>> I don't see naptha at Home Depot for example.
>>> http://www.homedepot.com/b/Paint-Paint-Thinner-Additives-Solvents-Cleaners-Paint-Thinner-Solvents-Cleaners/Paint-Thinners-and-Strippers/N-5yc1vZc5bmZ1z0t5hf
> Forget the peanut butter. Peanut OIL is what does the job - the
> "butter" is just a carrier

A surplus store in Orlando, Florida used to use spray paint to
remove labels from reels of wire. What a mess!

[Robert Bannon]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 10:47:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

> That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
> lasted me several years so far ...

That's cheating.

That's like buying mayonnaise in a jar.
Sure, it's easy.

But it's no fun.
Making it yourself takes technique; but that's the fun of it.

Plus, often, a home-spun solution works far better (e.g., muriatic acid in
an encrusted toilet bowl works extremely well, and certainly worlds' better
than any grocery store solution you've ever used in your life!).

Sure, muriatic acid is dangerous.
But it's a readily available chemical that works like you can't believe, for
cleaning toilet bowl crud.

Same thing here.
Anyone, without a morsel of thought, can *buy* a ready-made solution.

Why even have a newsgroup titled anything.repair if all you do is buy a
ready-made solution?

Remember, I *already* have a perfectly good solution using three readily
available solvents:
1. Water (to remove paper labels)
2. Gasoline (to remove most goop)
3. Acetone (to remove the rare goop impervious to gasoline)

The only reason for the question was to figure out how to chemically cut the
gasoline down to 1/10th of full strength (or more) so that it possibly could
be used inside instead of outside.

It's not more complicated than that.

If you want to buy your solutions without thinking further about them,
that's fine as it's a perfectly viable and sensible approach.

There are plenty of people who don't cut down their own trees, and who don't
mix their own cement and who don't dig their own post holes and who don't
repair their own oscilloscopes, etc.

But I wouldn't think we'd find them on these two repair newsgroups, who are
all about getting scientific and technical and practical advice on home spun
solutions.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:25:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> The problem is that
> at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
> least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
> gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
> process requires gallons of gasoline?

Thanks for thinking Jeff, and for asking thinking questions.
This question was always about chemistry.

Answers:
1. I only remove about 1 label a week (or so).
2. It's not the expense; it's the pleasure of using a home remedy solution
that actually works (if peanut butter really worked, that would be fine).
3. I've tried *all* the chemicals I keep at home.
4. Gasoline works more often than all the rest.
5. Acetone works second best (but not as well as gasoline).
6. Gasoline stinks up the house if used inside.
7. Plus it's too flammable to store under the kitchen sink.
8. So I'm just trying to use vastly diluted gasoline.
9. My hope is that a 1:10 gas:diluent solution will still work.
10. If it's a 1:10 solution of gas:diluent, it might not stink so bad.
11. And, a 1:10 solution might be more safely stored indoors.
12. That's the only reason I ask the scientific question.

I only remove a label about once every week or two.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:53:52 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.

I'll bet you a jar of mayonnaise also lasts a while.
But making it yourself is far more enjoyable and far more tasty.

I'll bet you a jar of toilet bowl cleaner lasts a while too.
But once you've used muriatic acid, you'll never use a commercial solution
ever again.

If you knew how utterly *EFFECTIVE* gasoline is for dissolving most goop,
I'd bet you'd never use that goo gone stuff ever again.

I haven't tried the googone stuff, but gasoline literally melts most goop
off on contact.

How long does it take for the googone stuff to melt all the goop off in most
cases?

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:48:00 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Because of the evaporation rate of MOST of these solvents, using it
> ON the label makes a lot of sense because it keeps the solvent in
> contact with the glue longer before it evaporates. Try it.

This is an interesting technique to keep the label on while applying the
solvent. It won't work, I'm sure, as well in plastic labels, but it might
work well for the paper labels.

Thanks for that suggestion. I will try it soon.

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:46:09 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Depends on the household. If cooking dinner is much like a chemstry
> experiment, then that would be an uncommon but appropriate household.

This was written by a mad scientist who lives in your area:
'Your Mother was a Chemist"
http://kitchenscience.sci-toys.com/