When's new Scala IDE for 2.12?

[Daniel Davis]

There was supposed to be one (http://www.scala-lang.org/news/2.12.0-M1), but didn't find even nightlies.

[Rafał Krzewski]

As far as I can tell, nobody is working on it right now - at least publicly.

There are no nightly builds for Scala 2.12 at https://jenkins.scala-ide.org:8496/jenkins/, there is no 2.12 specific branch on https://github.com/scala-ide/scala-ide/ and the commits to master branch over past month are not 2.12 related.

There is 2.12 profile in the build configuration though, but I had no luck compiling it locally - there were dependencies missing and I run into an apparent compiler bug when trying to compile sbt-util for 2.12... In short - don't hold your breath. 

There was a discussion about IDE support on https://gitter.im/scala/center in the beginning of November and the picture looks pretty bleak: core contributors of Scala use IntelliJ (that supports only an ill-defined subset of Scala), Typelevel folks use Ensime (that does not support 2.12 yet) and Scala IDE does not have any commercial backing - AFAICT nobody is getting paid to develop it right now. The developers of Scala IDE expressed their frustration with the constraints that Eclipse and JDT in particular is imposing on their efforts and are looking for alternative platforms: https://www.reddit.com/r/scala/comments/52w7n8/future_of_scala_ide_would_you_like_to_see_an/?st=ivtenp1y&sh=c1420453

Of course, I very much appreciate the efforts of Scala IDE volunteer team, understand that Scala Center has it's hands full with MOOCs, SIPs and SLIPs and Lightbend is already doing a lot by sponsoring scalac development. However, the status quo of IntelliJ Scala plugin working "good enough" for Scala-as-better-Java is far from satisfactory. I wish we could do better as the Scala community but frankly it is quite daunting - dealing with presentation compiler on one side and Eclipse JDT on the other is not something that many people would do for fun in their spare time. 

Rafal

[iulian dragos]

Rafal, thanks for your thoughtful answer. It's become rare to find such level-headed reactions these days. See my thoughts inline.

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Rafał Krzewski <rafal.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

As far as I can tell, nobody is working on it right now - at least publicly.

There are no nightly builds for Scala 2.12 at https://jenkins.scala-ide.org:8496/jenkins/, there is no 2.12 specific branch on https://github.com/scala-ide/scala-ide/ and the commits to master branch over past month are not 2.12 related.

There is 2.12 profile in the build configuration though, but I had no luck compiling it locally - there were dependencies missing and I run into an apparent compiler bug when trying to compile sbt-util for 2.12... In short - don't hold your breath. 

I think the main blocker is scala-refactoring. There's some activity over there: https://github.com/scala-ide/scala-refactoring/commits/master

There was a discussion about IDE support on https://gitter.im/scala/center in the beginning of November and the picture looks pretty bleak: core contributors of Scala use IntelliJ (that supports only an ill-defined subset of Scala), Typelevel folks use Ensime (that does not support 2.12 yet) and Scala IDE does not have any commercial backing - AFAICT nobody is getting paid to develop it right now. The developers of Scala IDE expressed their frustration with the constraints that Eclipse and JDT in particular is imposing on their efforts and are looking for alternative platforms: https://www.reddit.com/r/scala/comments/52w7n8/future_of_scala_ide_would_you_like_to_see_an/?st=ivtenp1y&sh=c1420453

As far as I know Lightbend together with VirtusLab are still sponsoring part of development. However, the team is much smaller than it used to be, and of course things go slower. It'd be great if the community helped a bit more, but that's always been very challenging. 

Of course, I very much appreciate the efforts of Scala IDE volunteer team, understand that Scala Center has it's hands full with MOOCs, SIPs and SLIPs and Lightbend is already doing a lot by sponsoring scalac development. However, the status quo of IntelliJ Scala plugin working "good enough" for Scala-as-better-Java is far from satisfactory. I wish we could do better as the Scala community but frankly it is quite daunting - dealing with presentation compiler on one side and Eclipse JDT on the other is not something that many people would do for fun in their spare time. 

I agree, but there are large parts of the code base that are relatively clean and easier to make an impact. Also, the JDT parts are fairly well isolated, so there is a significant amount of work that can be done without touching it. I wonder, what can be done to make it more attractive to contributors? Is it documentation? Is it "low hanging" tickets?

iulian

 

Rafal

W dniu sobota, 19 listopada 2016 21:39:30 UTC+1 użytkownik Daniel Davis napisał:

There was supposed to be one (http://www.scala-lang.org/news/2.12.0-M1), but didn't find even nightlies.

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Alphonse Allais

[wpopie...@virtuslab.com]

Hello Rafal,

there are already points done by Iulian (especially about problems with scala-refactoring which I believe will be overcome in next 2/3 weeks). I just would like to add only info that the situation is not so hopeless it could be perceived at first glimpse of eye. Even now scala user can add 2.12 installation to her/his toolbox. The problem is that unfortunately presentation compiler is still working in released with scala-ide version of scala (currently 2.11.8) and sources of scala are not available.

Thanks for your remarks

Wieslaw 

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[Simon Schäfer]

---- On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 12:44:01 +0100Rafał Krzewski <rafal.k...@gmail.com> wrote ----

As far as I can tell, nobody is working on it right now - at least publicly.

There are no nightly builds for Scala 2.12 at https://jenkins.scala-ide.org:8496/jenkins/, there is no 2.12 specific branch on https://github.com/scala-ide/scala-ide/ and the commits to master branch over past month are not 2.12 related.

There is 2.12 profile in the build configuration though, but I had no luck compiling it locally - there were dependencies missing and I run into an apparent compiler bug when trying to compile sbt-util for 2.12... In short - don't hold your breath. 

There was a discussion about IDE support on https://gitter.im/scala/center in the beginning of November and the picture looks pretty bleak: core contributors of Scala use IntelliJ (that supports only an ill-defined subset of Scala), Typelevel folks use Ensime (that does not support 2.12 yet) and Scala IDE does not have any commercial backing - AFAICT nobody is getting paid to develop it right now.

Actually, there is commercial funding behind Scala IDE. Right now one person is working full-time and another person is working part-time on Scala IDE. However, a lot of our time is already eaten by maintaining our codebase, which means that no big changes are on the way anymore. Scala 2.12 support is in the making. So far we worked on making our release build and scala-refactoring compatible with 2.12, which are both in separate repositories. We are planning to release a new major version of Scala IDE this week, 2.12 support will follow afterwards.

The developers of Scala IDE expressed their frustration with the constraints that Eclipse and JDT in particular is imposing on their efforts and are looking for alternative platforms: https://www.reddit.com/r/scala/comments/52w7n8/future_of_scala_ide_would_you_like_to_see_an/?st=ivtenp1y&sh=c1420453

Of course, I very much appreciate the efforts of Scala IDE volunteer team, understand that Scala Center has it's hands full with MOOCs, SIPs and SLIPs and Lightbend is already doing a lot by sponsoring scalac development. However, the status quo of IntelliJ Scala plugin working "good enough" for Scala-as-better-Java is far from satisfactory. I wish we could do better as the Scala community but frankly it is quite daunting - dealing with presentation compiler on one side and Eclipse JDT on the other is not something that many people would do for fun in their spare time. 

Rafal

W dniu sobota, 19 listopada 2016 21:39:30 UTC+1 użytkownik Daniel Davis napisał:

There was supposed to be one (http://www.scala-lang.org/news/2.12.0-M1), but didn't find even nightlies.

[Rafał Krzewski]

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 07:40:28 UTC+1 użytkownik Iulian Dragos napisał:

Rafal, thanks for your thoughtful answer. It's become rare to find such level-headed reactions these days. See my thoughts inline.

That's the last thing I'd expect to be praised for :) Throwing fits does not fix any problems, does it? ;)

I agree, but there are large parts of the code base that are relatively clean and easier to make an impact. Also, the JDT parts are fairly well isolated, so there is a significant amount of work that can be done without touching it. I wonder, what can be done to make it more attractive to contributors? Is it documentation? Is it "low hanging" tickets?

In my opinion the bug tracker is large barrier for community participation. I think Assembla is the worst issue tracker that I've ever used (and I'm using Jira since 2004, so...). Being forced to create an account to even search open issues is ridiculous.

Migrating to github issues tracker would be great. You could follow the footsteps of akka and create scala-ide-meta project for release planning, feature discussion/prioritization and tracking ongoing work on supporting projects (scala-refactoring, scalariform etc)

Once the issues are migrated, tagging bite-sized issues for community adopters is the logical next step.

Cheers,

Rafał

[Rafał Krzewski]

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 11:38:52 UTC+1 użytkownik wpopie...@virtuslab.com napisał:

Hello Rafal,

there are already points done by Iulian (especially about problems with scala-refactoring which I believe will be overcome in next 2/3 weeks). I just would like to add only info that the situation is not so hopeless it could be perceived at first glimpse of eye.

How about writing a few paragraphs and posting it on http://scala-ide.org/blog/?

More outreach / visibility could help attracting contributors from the community.

Even now scala user can add 2.12 installation to her/his toolbox. The problem is that unfortunately presentation compiler is still working in released with scala-ide version of scala (currently 2.11.8) and sources of scala are not available.

How do I add it? Can you point to me to relevant documentation? Also, should I expect it to work at all with mismatched library / compiler versions?

Cheers,

Rafał

[Rafał Krzewski]

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 11:39:07 UTC+1 użytkownik Simon Schäfer napisał:

Actually, there is commercial funding behind Scala IDE. Right now one person is working full-time and another person is working part-time on Scala IDE. However, a lot of our time is already eaten by maintaining our codebase, which means that no big changes are on the way anymore. Scala 2.12 support is in the making. So far we worked on making our release build and scala-refactoring compatible with 2.12, which are both in separate repositories. We are planning to release a new major version of Scala IDE this week, 2.12 support will follow afterwards.

Thank you Simon, that's good to know! I think you guys should blog / tweet more about your work. Changing the perception that Scala-IDE is an almost abandoned project is critical for attracting more contributors.

Cheers,

Rafał

[Simon Schäfer]

---- On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 15:22:26 +0100Rafał Krzewski <rafal.k...@gmail.com> wrote ----

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 11:39:07 UTC+1 użytkownik Simon Schäfer napisał:

Actually, there is commercial funding behind Scala IDE. Right now one person is working full-time and another person is working part-time on Scala IDE. However, a lot of our time is already eaten by maintaining our codebase, which means that no big changes are on the way anymore. Scala 2.12 support is in the making. So far we worked on making our release build and scala-refactoring compatible with 2.12, which are both in separate repositories. We are planning to release a new major version of Scala IDE this week, 2.12 support will follow afterwards.

Thank you Simon, that's good to know! I think you guys should blog / tweet more about your work. Changing the perception that Scala-IDE is an almost abandoned project is critical for attracting more contributors.

To my understanding this wouldn't change anything. People don't contribute back to Scala IDE or don't even use it in the first place because of Eclipse, which is in general not a well respected platform outside of the Java community (and even within the Java community its reputation falls steadily). There were mistakes done in the Scala tooling ecosystem (scala-ide, sbt, scalac etc.) that can hardly be corrected today.

Cheers,

Rafał

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[Rafał Krzewski]

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 16:05:19 UTC+1 użytkownik Simon Schäfer napisał:

Thank you Simon, that's good to know! I think you guys should blog / tweet more about your work. Changing the perception that Scala-IDE is an almost abandoned project is critical for attracting more contributors.

To my understanding this wouldn't change anything. People don't contribute back to Scala IDE or don't even use it in the first place because of Eclipse, which is in general not a well respected platform outside of the Java community (and even within the Java community its reputation falls steadily). There were mistakes done in the Scala tooling ecosystem (scala-ide, sbt, scalac etc.) that can hardly be corrected today.

I concur your observation that Eclipse is not well respected. In my community: small to medium IT companies in Warsaw, Poland there's hardly anyone using Eclipse. I have been using Eclipse day in / day out for over 10 years, and I have used IntelliJ only briefly (WebStrom to be precise, to debug some node.js code) and absolutely hated it, so I am very much exception from the norm :) Eclipse certainly has it's problems and early 4.x releases were slow and buggy but overall, it get's the job done really well. That's one of the reasons I really wish Scala-IDE to succeed.

Can you please elaborate what mistakes in scala tooling ecosystem do you have in mind? Why do you think that they cannot be corrected in the future?

Cheers,
Rafał

[Rafał Pokrywka]

Hi Rafał,

Scala IDE, as Iulian, Simon and Wiesław mentioned, is supported by Lightbend and VirtusLab. I agree that we should blog a bit more about our work and current Scala IDE state.. For sure there will be some information on-line once new version will be released.

Scala IDE Is continuously improved and is getting better release by release. 

Scala IDE will always be backed and open-source that's for sure. 

We've been thinking about changing issue tracker as well some time ago but then without conclusion - thanks for bringing this up  again. We should get back to it and consider switching to more user friendly tool. 

Thanks,
Rafał

[Simon Schäfer]

---- On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 16:22:32 +0100Rafał Krzewski <rafal.k...@gmail.com> wrote ----

Can you please elaborate what mistakes in scala tooling ecosystem do you have in mind? Why do you think that they cannot be corrected in the future?

Innovation was destroyed by relying too much on Java compatibility. When Typesafe was founded they fully concentrated on making Scala interesting for Java developers but they forgot that there are also Scala (potential) users who are not former Java developers. Scala IDE and sbt both rely completely on technology that comes from the Java ecosystem, there was never a movement to replace the Java "dependency" with a first Scala friendly solution. This is not just Typesafes fault, the remaining Scala ecosystem also relied too much on what Typesafe was doing instead of also investing in the Scala ecosystem (investing means: paying people to work on the base infrastructure like IDE, build tool, compiler and documentation).

Nowadays it is just Lightbend who is responsible for everything - not the situation I would like to see (and they are not going to change as the company rename points out). Scala Center has been founded but what they can achieve remains to be seen. I don't know what Typesafe could have made different though. Doesn't matter anyway, history can't changed. The good thing is that many people are not satisfied with the existing solutions anymore and are eager to try out something new. A good situation for people who want to build something new.

[Rafał Krzewski]

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 17:55:36 UTC+1 użytkownik Rafał Pokrywka napisał:

Hi Rafał,

Scala IDE, as Iulian, Simon and Wiesław mentioned, is supported by Lightbend and VirtusLab.

That's great to know, but what I'd expect to see in a commercially supported project is a steady stream of commits and resolved issues. Maybe it's just visibility problem because work is done in many more repositories than just scala-ide/scala-ide but maybe the people who are in theory assigned to IDE development spend most of their time on other tasks (like supporting paying customers of their respective companies). Running a business involves managing scarce resources most of the time. It's important to be honest to oneself about the priorities - important but not urgent things tend to slip away, unless a conscious effort is made to push them to completion.

In the discussion on scala center's gitter channel, someone was complaining that presentation compiler bugs where deprioritiezed by scalac team. I understand that 2.12 was a lot of work with Java 8 code generator and new optimizer coming in. Hopefully it'll be possible get them more involved in PC improvements more, now that 2.13 is supposed to concentrate on improving the standard library. I believe this is something that needs to be brought up to decision makers in Lightbend. I'm probably stating the obvious but you should team up with Ensime folks to lobby for that. In general more cooperation with Ensime would be great, because they're smart and dedicated bunch, and essentially fighting the same battle. You are not really competing for users ;) 

 

I agree that we should blog a bit more about our work and current Scala IDE state.. For sure there will be some information on-line once new version will be released.

Scala IDE Is continuously improved and is getting better release by release. 

Scala IDE will always be backed and open-source that's for sure. 

We've been thinking about changing issue tracker as well some time ago but then without conclusion - thanks for bringing this up  again. We should get back to it and consider switching to more user friendly tool. 

Please do. Akka is using github issue tracker to great effect. Cross linkin issues and PRs from related projects and line-by-line reviews are very convenient. There are also all kinds of bots that manage labels, merge LGTM'ed and validated PRs and so on (of course I'd rather see you guys improve the IDE than tinker with bots, but hey this is cool stuff :P)

 

I'm really glad to have this conversation. Thanks for your contributions and good luck!

Rafał

[Rafał Pokrywka]

W dniu piątek, 25 listopada 2016 10:12:23 UTC+1 użytkownik Rafał Krzewski napisał:

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 17:55:36 UTC+1 użytkownik Rafał Pokrywka napisał:

Hi Rafał,

Scala IDE, as Iulian, Simon and Wiesław mentioned, is supported by Lightbend and VirtusLab.

That's great to know, but what I'd expect to see in a commercially supported project is a steady stream of commits and resolved issues. Maybe it's just visibility problem because work is done in many more repositories than just scala-ide/scala-ide but maybe the people who are in theory assigned to IDE development spend most of their time on other tasks (like supporting paying customers of their respective companies). Running a business involves managing scarce resources most of the time. It's important to be honest to oneself about the priorities - important but not urgent things tend to slip away, unless a conscious effort is made to push them to completion.

Regarding the above - People within our team assigned to work on Scala IDE are working ONLY on Scala IDE and not on any other projects. We have strong & steady commitment here and are pushing things forward day by day. 

There is a lot of work though :)

We would like to have also a more broader discussion over the dev tools ecosystem - in March there will ScalaSphere conf ( http://scalasphere.org/). Previous year we had great discussion amon people from business side, tools developers and community members (ScalaIDE, JetBrains, EPFL and more) - this year should be high quality as well.

I'm glad I could say that here :)

All the best,

Rafał

[iulian dragos]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Rafał Krzewski <rafal.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

W dniu środa, 23 listopada 2016 17:55:36 UTC+1 użytkownik Rafał Pokrywka napisał:

Hi Rafał,

Scala IDE, as Iulian, Simon and Wiesław mentioned, is supported by Lightbend and VirtusLab.

That's great to know, but what I'd expect to see in a commercially supported project is a steady stream of commits and resolved issues. Maybe it's just visibility problem because work is done in many more repositories than just scala-ide/scala-ide but maybe the people who are in theory assigned to IDE development spend most of their time on other tasks (like supporting paying customers of their respective companies). Running a business involves managing scarce resources most of the time. It's important to be honest to oneself about the priorities - important but not urgent things tend to slip away, unless a conscious effort is made to push them to completion.

I think there’s a lot of invisible work going on. Scala-refactoring in particular, but also 2.12 compatibility, switching to the latest version of Zinc, etc.

 

In the discussion on scala center's gitter channel, someone was complaining that presentation compiler bugs where deprioritiezed by scalac team. I understand that 2.12 was a lot of work with Java 8 code generator and new optimizer coming in. Hopefully it'll be possible get them more involved in PC improvements more, now that 2.13 is supposed to concentrate on improving the standard library. I believe this is something that needs to be brought up to decision makers in Lightbend.

This would carry a lot more weight if people in the community asked for it, rather than Eclipse developers. Like it or not, Eclipse is not sexy as a platform and most users are using IntelliJ. So, requests coming from Eclipse are automatically seen as benefitting a small minority and carry little weight. Given scarce resources, you know what follows. Note that I don’t condone this reasoning, but I couldn’t make a good case myself over the years, and unless the users speak, nobody will know Eclipse has actual users out there. Download numbers alone, close to 5000 downloads for the last 30 days, without a new release, don’t seem too convincing either. This number is from the Eclipse marketplace, so it misses direct downloads on our site and full-bundle downloads. I don’t have access to those anymore.

 

I'm probably stating the obvious but you should team up with Ensime folks to lobby for that. In general more cooperation with Ensime would be great, because they're smart and dedicated bunch, and essentially fighting the same battle. You are not really competing for users ;) 

Absolutely. We are talking frequently, and we are both in each other’s Gitter rooms :) I totally agree with you, and we’ve discussed collaboration at length during ScalaSphere last year. Ensime is using exactly the same infrastructure (scala-refactoring, presentation compiler). So far we haven’t gotten past this point, but I am certainly hoping they can dedicate some resources for these projects too.

Sam Halliday was pushing for a Scala Center initiative regarding the presentation compiler, I’ll ping him again. I think that could be a great thing. However, the way in which the Scala Center seems to be governed makes me very skeptical this would lead anywhere. Essentially every initiative has to be approved by the board (consisting of representatives of companies and a couple of OSS people), so that gives practically no freedom of action to the Center.

iulian

 

 

I agree that we should blog a bit more about our work and current Scala IDE state.. For sure there will be some information on-line once new version will be released.

Scala IDE Is continuously improved and is getting better release by release. 

Scala IDE will always be backed and open-source that's for sure. 

We've been thinking about changing issue tracker as well some time ago but then without conclusion - thanks for bringing this up  again. We should get back to it and consider switching to more user friendly tool. 

Please do. Akka is using github issue tracker to great effect. Cross linkin issues and PRs from related projects and line-by-line reviews are very convenient. There are also all kinds of bots that manage labels, merge LGTM'ed and validated PRs and so on (of course I'd rather see you guys improve the IDE than tinker with bots, but hey this is cool stuff :P)

 

I'm really glad to have this conversation. Thanks for your contributions and good luck!

Rafał

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[Rafał Krzewski]

W dniu piątek, 25 listopada 2016 11:25:45 UTC+1 użytkownik Iulian Dragos napisał:

This would carry a lot more weight if people in the community asked for it, rather than Eclipse developers. Like it or not, Eclipse is not sexy as a platform and most users are using IntelliJ. So, requests coming from Eclipse are automatically seen as benefitting a small minority and carry little weight. Given scarce resources, you know what follows. Note that I don’t condone this reasoning, but I couldn’t make a good case myself over the years, and unless the users speak, nobody will know Eclipse has actual users out there. Download numbers alone, close to 5000 downloads for the last 30 days, without a new release, don’t seem too convincing either. This number is from the Eclipse marketplace, so it misses direct downloads on our site and full-bundle downloads. I don’t have access to those anymore.

5000 downloads in 30 days? That doesn't sound like quite many to me, but maybe I don't have correct sense of Scale.

I think it's a bit of chicken and egg problem. If Scala IDE offered superior experience over IntelliJ WRT advanced features of Scala (macros/scala.meta, type level programming) it would attract more users, but how do we get there?

Sam Halliday was pushing for a Scala Center initiative regarding the presentation compiler, I’ll ping him again. I think that could be a great thing. However, the way in which the Scala Center seems to be governed makes me very skeptical this would lead anywhere. Essentially every initiative has to be approved by the board (consisting of representatives of companies and a couple of OSS people), so that gives practically no freedom of action to the Center.

Yeah, the discussion on scala-center gitter few weeks back was an eye opener. It seems that it the center has 3 employees and 10 people in charge. Road construction seemed to work that way in Poland when I was a kid and the results where ... suboptimal. The idea of supporting the important but not immediately profitable aspects of development of Scala through a non-profit entity is brilliant but they need to work on the execution. The stakeholders need to chip in more and hire more people, because otherwise they'll just burn out those that they have. I was appalled to learn that Heather is getting abused online by people that are not happy with the way Scala Center works. This so unfair >:( 

I hope it will eventually work out for the best. Scala 2.12 is a fantastic milestone, and there are more good things coming up. Martin's talks about dotc internals are encouraging, and so many brilliant people in Scala ecosystem are pushing boundaries of what is possible!

cheers,
Rafał

[iulian dragos]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Rafał Krzewski <rafal.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

W dniu piątek, 25 listopada 2016 11:25:45 UTC+1 użytkownik Iulian Dragos napisał:

This would carry a lot more weight if people in the community asked for it, rather than Eclipse developers. Like it or not, Eclipse is not sexy as a platform and most users are using IntelliJ. So, requests coming from Eclipse are automatically seen as benefitting a small minority and carry little weight. Given scarce resources, you know what follows. Note that I don’t condone this reasoning, but I couldn’t make a good case myself over the years, and unless the users speak, nobody will know Eclipse has actual users out there. Download numbers alone, close to 5000 downloads for the last 30 days, without a new release, don’t seem too convincing either. This number is from the Eclipse marketplace, so it misses direct downloads on our site and full-bundle downloads. I don’t have access to those anymore.

5000 downloads in 30 days? That doesn't sound like quite many to me, but maybe I don't have correct sense of Scale.

I don’t know. The last release was about 6 months ago, so it’s only about new users in the last 30 days. It’s also only one channel of distribution, I don’t even know if it’s the most popular one (I certainly never use it). According to the marketplace stats, Scala IDE is ranked nr. 22, right below AngularJS Eclipse and Tomcat (at 5334 downloads in the last 30 days). Spring Tools Suite, ranking nr. 6, has 16k downloads. And we seem to be above the Eclipse C++ plugin.

I think it's a bit of chicken and egg problem. If Scala IDE offered superior experience over IntelliJ WRT advanced features of Scala (macros/scala.meta, type level programming) it would attract more users, but how do we get there?

Sam Halliday was pushing for a Scala Center initiative regarding the presentation compiler, I’ll ping him again. I think that could be a great thing. However, the way in which the Scala Center seems to be governed makes me very skeptical this would lead anywhere. Essentially every initiative has to be approved by the board (consisting of representatives of companies and a couple of OSS people), so that gives practically no freedom of action to the Center.

Yeah, the discussion on scala-center gitter few weeks back was an eye opener. It seems that it the center has 3 employees and 10 people in charge. Road construction seemed to work that way in Poland when I was a kid and the results where ... suboptimal. The idea of supporting the important but not immediately profitable aspects of development of Scala through a non-profit entity is brilliant but they need to work on the execution. The stakeholders need to chip in more and hire more people, because otherwise they'll just burn out those that they have. I was appalled to learn that Heather is getting abused online by people that are not happy with the way Scala Center works. This so unfair >:( 

I hope it will eventually work out for the best. Scala 2.12 is a fantastic milestone, and there are more good things coming up. Martin's talks about dotc internals are encouraging, and so many brilliant people in Scala ecosystem are pushing boundaries of what is possible!

cheers,
Rafał

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[Rafał Krzewski]

W dniu piątek, 25 listopada 2016 16:34:53 UTC+1 użytkownik Iulian Dragos napisał:

5000 downloads in 30 days? That doesn't sound like quite many to me, but maybe I don't have correct sense of Scale.

I don’t know. The last release was about 6 months ago, so it’s only about new users in the last 30 days. It’s also only one channel of distribution, I don’t even know if it’s the most popular one (I certainly never use it). According to the marketplace stats, Scala IDE is ranked nr. 22, right below AngularJS Eclipse and Tomcat (at 5334 downloads in the last 30 days). Spring Tools Suite, ranking nr. 6, has 16k downloads. And we seem to be above the Eclipse C++ plugin.

Yeah, this does not really say much about the number of people actually using Scala IDE. Also, comparing to other language plugins for Eclipse does not help much. What's important is what tools Scala developers actually use. 

Here's a data point: an ad hoc survey done at Scalar Conference in Warsaw in April '16: https://twitter.com/michal_kordas/status/721349101808414721

It's hard to say how representative that is, I don't think that a more principled survey would tell a different story. Stirring does not make the tea sweeter ;)

cheers,

Rafał

[Matthias Kurz]

+1000 for switching to GitHub as issue tracker.

[Marc Schlegel]

Any updates on Scala IDE for 2.12? Is there any roadmap with issues that need to be fixed for a release?

[Marek Jagielski]

I see that new IDE with 2.12 support is out:

http://scala-ide.org/blog/release-notes-4.6.0-RC1.html

http://scala-ide.org/download/milestone.html

However, updatesite:
http://download.scala-ide.org/sdk/lithium/e46/scala212/dev/site

still seems to be not working.

Marek

[Simon Schäfer]

---- On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 20:40:45 +0200 Marek Jagielski <marek.j...@gmail.com> wrote ----

I see that new IDE with 2.12 support is out:

http://scala-ide.org/blog/release-notes-4.6.0-RC1.html

http://scala-ide.org/download/milestone.html

However, updatesite:

http://download.scala-ide.org/sdk/lithium/e46/scala212/dev/site

still seems to be not working.

It is an update site for Eclipse, not a browsable website.

Marek

On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 4:36:23 PM UTC+1, Marc Schlegel wrote:

Any updates on Scala IDE for 2.12? Is there any roadmap with issues that need to be fixed for a release?

Am Freitag, 9. Dezember 2016 13:09:16 UTC+1 schrieb Matthias Kurz:

+1000 for switching to GitHub as issue tracker.

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