मुकेशसंज्ञाया अर्थः ।

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Dr P Narayanan

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Oct 12, 2015, 1:47:06 AM10/12/15
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अयि भोस्सन्तः ।
मुकेश इति वर्तते किल नामधेयं बहुषु प्रदेशेषु । कोस्याः संज्ञाया अर्थः ? कस्या भाषाया उत्पन्ना संज्ञेयम् ? किमियं संस्कृतजा उत प्रादेशिकी ? उत वा डित्थडवित्थादिवदव्युपन्नेयम् ? संशयं ममेदमपाकुरुत । बहुभाषाज्ञाः खल्वत्रत्याः सदस्याः ।

डा. पी. नारायणन् ।

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 12, 2015, 2:10:21 AM10/12/15
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मुखेशस्याल्पप्राणत्वे, खस्य मुकेशः इति स्यात्। मूकेशस्य ऊकारस्य ह्रस्वत्वे मुकेशः इति स्यात्। यथाकथञ्चित् संस्कृतत्वं नामधेयस्य चेत् इष्यते, डित्थादिवत् स्वीकर्तव्यम्।



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Arvind_Kolhatkar

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Oct 12, 2015, 11:21:12 AM10/12/15
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I have always said that people tend to choose, create or invent names that sound 'ethnic' and 'traditional' without bothering to check if their concocted name has any meaning or not.  This can sometimes lead to hilarious results.

Here is the website of someone whose name is - can you believe it - 'श्लेष्मा'! New-born girls are routinely named  'वृषाली' without realizing that this name does not have a very complimentary meaning.

The same is the case with मुकेश.  There is no word in the Sanskrit language like 'मुक'.  You have मूक, you also have  मुख, but no 'मुक'.  Consequently, , मुक + ईश is meaningless, though because of the 'ईश' ending it sounds like good old Sanskrit.

This has been often commented upon here.

Arvind Kolhatkar.

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 12, 2015, 12:07:32 PM10/12/15
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On 12-Oct-2015 8:51 pm, "Arvind_Kolhatkar" <kolhat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have always said that people tend to choose, create or invent names that sound 'ethnic' and 'traditional' without bothering to check if their concocted name has any meaning or not.  This can sometimes lead to hilarious results.
>
> Here is the website of someone whose name is - can you believe it - 'श्लेष्मा'! New-born girls are routinely named  'वृषाली' without realizing that this name does not have a very complimentary meaning.
>

Very interesting. The first is meaningful, but not only not interesting as a personal name, but ugly as

m. [श्लिष्-मनिन्] Phlegmatic 
humour.

as per Apte's Dictionary. Dr. Narayanan would explain the word correctly.

As Sanskrit name वृषली has got several meaning of choice:

ī), f. a woman of low caste;
an unmarried girl twelve years old (in whom menstru
ation has commenced);
a woman during menstruation; 
a barren woman; the mother of a still-born child. 

But वृषाली would give give more uglier / vulgar meaning as in

"वृषस्यन्ती तु कामुकी"

etc.

Subrahmanian R

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Oct 15, 2015, 8:42:23 AM10/15/15
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More common I think is आर्ति or आर्ती. The dictionary meaning does not appear to be pleasing. Also आरति only means stopping, ceasing. Perhaps आरात्रिक got changed to आर्ति  after shedding some end portion. Similar to my mind, is अस्मिता. I am told that it has nothing to do with laughter or smile, but 'I am'-ness !

R Subrahmanian

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KN.Ramesh

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Oct 15, 2015, 8:43:16 AM10/15/15
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In the ramakrishna mutt publication of Devi mahatmyam written by Anna in tamil, I came across the word अमुक in the sankalpa portion,  it is written to use अमुक - with a comment stating to think of our own desire for which the paraayanam is done. Intrigued, I checked and got this meaning:

अमुक - such and such person or a thing;  a thing or a person referred to without a name.

Similar to Amuka gotra Shri amuka devasharma (the host) kriteysmin. Lekhani masyadhara sahita Shri Shri Saraswati puja tat anghibuta puja karmanah .. 

and Then the Brahmanas present would assuringly accord ready approval replying kurushva/ Then the Karta bends his right knees as prescribed above and commences the Shraaddha instantly: Amuka Pitrunamuka Shraaddhey Amuka Vishwa Devartham twayaa kshanah kriyataam/  The Vipras would respond with  Om Tathaa/ Then the Karta would bend his left knee and address the Pitru Devatas saying Amuka Shraaddhey Amukasya sthaaney twayaa kshananah kriyataam/ In case there is one Brahmana representing the three Pitru Sthaannas of Pitru Pitamaha Prapitaamahaanaam Sthaaneykshanah / The Karta requests the Brahmana with Akrodha naih Shloka - 


Thought मुक should be -  a person or a thing with name (considering it to be the antonym), but was shocked when the meaning obtained was this:-

मुक- smell of cowdung

then what is the antonym of मुक?

Or am I landing into trouble like this:

Many words from Samskritam has been translated to English and accepted, yet when they are translated back to Samskritam, they yield a different result. For eg, chitta is translated to mind. manas also is translated to mind. But how will you translate "mind" back to Samskritam -> chitta or manas? Yoga has been translated to union, but is union translated back to Samskritam as Yoga? 


Just sharing my views, corrections most welcome.

KN.Ramesh

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Oct 15, 2015, 8:43:28 AM10/15/15
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उच्चाटय  वाराहि काकवद्भ्रमयाशु तान्।
अमुकाऽमुक संज्ञानां शत्रूणां  परस्परम्॥१९॥

Request members to explain the meaning of अमुकाऽमुक in the above sloka and also the story relating to the crow referred to.

sloka is from  किरातवाराही स्तोत्रम्.

thanks

On Monday, 12 October 2015 20:51:12 UTC+5:30, Arvind_Kolhatkar wrote:

KN.Ramesh

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Oct 15, 2015, 8:43:46 AM10/15/15
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On Monday, 12 October 2015 20:51:12 UTC+5:30, Arvind_Kolhatkar wrote:

KN.Ramesh

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Oct 19, 2015, 9:05:29 AM10/19/15
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Just to add on  आर्ति , there is one stotram called आर्तिहर स्तोत्रम्  stotram written by Sridhara ayyaval here:

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 19, 2015, 10:18:00 AM10/19/15
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Thought मुक should be -  a person or a thing with name (considering it to be the antonym), but was shocked when the meaning obtained was this:-

मुक- smell of cowdung

then what is the antonym of मुक?


Thanks for solving the meaning of मुकेश - the lord of the smell of cowdung. 

I think the question raised is solved. 

But I could not find in the word in Apte's dictionary and this is the search result:
 
"not found: muka"

Nor in Monier Williams dictionary or any Sanskrit Dictionary.



Regarding the word अमुक, please go through this discussion in another google group:


Here is the Sanskrit Dictionary search result:

अमुक¦ त्रि० अदस् + टेरकच् उत्त्वमत्वे । अदःशब्दार्थे
“अत्राहममुकः साक्षी” “समाप्तेऽर्थे ऋणी नाम स्वहस्तेन
निवेशयेत् मतं मेऽमुकपुत्रस्थ यदत्रोपरि लेखितम्” च या०

Anyhow you have solved the question of मुकेश one who is having the smell of cowdung! Thanks once again.

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 19, 2015, 10:55:31 AM10/19/15
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On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:59 PM, KN.Ramesh <knra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to add on  आर्ति , there is one stotram called आर्तिहर स्तोत्रम्  stotram written by Sridhara ayyaval here:




On Thursday, 15 October 2015 18:12:23 UTC+5:30, malamanian wrote:
More common I think is आर्ति or आर्ती. The dictionary meaning does not appear to be pleasing. Also आरति only means stopping, ceasing. Perhaps आरात्रिक got changed to आर्ति  after shedding some end portion.

Thanks for solving the question raised by Subrahmanyam. He has not mentioned the meaning in which  the word he has raised is used as objectionable.

For the meaning of आर्ति, आरती, etc.

आरती शब्द का तात्पर्य :—
आरती शब्द की व्युत्पत्ति " अर्ति " शब्द से हुई। त्रिषष्ठी श्लाका पुरूष चरित्र में कलिकाल सर्वज्ञानुसार अर्ति याने दुख। दुख व कर्मों को उतारने ( क्षय करने) की प्रक्रिया आरती कहलाती है। 
दूसरा अर्थ :— आरात्रिक ( उपर से) , आ = मर्यादा ( आरंभ) , रात = रात की, ईक = होने वाली। अर्थात् संध्याकाल में ( रात के प्रारंभ) की जाने वाली आरती कहलाती ।अपभ्रंश में आरात्रिक का आरतिय रूप बनता है।

आरती का आकार जागृति का प्रेरक है। यह हमें हमारी आत्मा पर छाये मोहनीय कर्म के बादलों के आवरण को छिन्न - भिन्न करने के भावों को मन में जाग्रत करने की प्रेरणा देता है।


The above gives the meaning in Hindi. 

Your Stotra relates to the removal आर्ति - आर्तिहर - Stotra removing pain, distress etc.

आर्ति [ ārti ] [ ā́rti ]1 f. painful occurrence , pain , injury , mischief. sickness Lit. AV. Lit. VS. Lit. KātyŚr. Lit. R. Lit. Megh.

as recorded in the dictionaies. The meaning given Hindi does not suit the meaning given in the dictionaries and I think that is the meaning for आर्ति he wanted to know.




K.N.RAMESH

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Oct 20, 2015, 12:43:43 PM10/20/15
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Sorry read cow as crow... Typo😢

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K.N.RAMESH

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Oct 20, 2015, 12:46:45 PM10/20/15
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Respected Bhatji,

Thanks a lot for the thread on अमुक.

>>But I could not find in the word in Apte's dictionary and this is the search result:
 
"not found: muka"

search `muka' in `Apte Dic' Link is http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~tjun/sktdic/

meanings of "muka"

m.{a-stem}

1.the smell of cow-dung

#37138


>>Nor in Monier Williams dictionary or any Sanskrit Dictionary.

Monier Williams: Search Results

1mukam. the smell of cowdung ; mf(%{A})n. having the smell of cowdung L.
2mukAf. N. of a town VP. [819,2]
3mUka(S3Br. %{mUka4}) mf(%{A})n. `" tied or bound "' (scil. tongue-tied) , dumb , speechless , mute , silent VS. &c. &c. ; wretched , poor L. ; m. a fish L. ; the offspring of a mule and mare L. ; N. of a Da1nsva MBh. ; of a serpent-demon ib. ; of a poet Cat. ; (%{A}) f. a crucible L. (= or w.r. for %{mUSA}).


>>Thanks for solving the meaning of मुकेश - the lord of the smell of cowdung. 

महाहास - LOL

Thats why Arvind Kolhatkar ji pointed out the hilarious meanings with the names.

However think we can go with the meaning as Shiva- Lord of mukasura-a daanava son of upasunda. (posted previously in this group by me)



Now my 2 questions are yet to be answered:

1) What is the antonym of मुक ? I am sure it is definitely not अमुक.

2) the story of the cow in 

उच्चाटय  वाराहि काकवद्भ्रमयाशु तान्।
अमुकाऽमुक संज्ञानां शत्रूणां  परस्परम्॥१९॥

2015-10-19 20:25 GMT+05:30 Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>:

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Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 20, 2015, 1:26:44 PM10/20/15
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On 20-Oct-2015 10:16 pm, "K.N.RAMESH" <knra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Respected Bhatji,
>
> Thanks a lot for the thread on अमुक.
>
> >>But I could not find in the word in Apte's dictionary and this is the search result:
>  
> "not found: muka"
>
> search `muka' in `Apte Dic' Link is http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~tjun/sktdic/
>
> meanings of "muka"
>
> m.{a-stem}
>
> 1.the smell of cow-dung
>
> #37138
>
>
> >>Nor in Monier Williams dictionary or any Sanskrit Dictionary.
>
> Link is http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/2014/web/webtc2/index.php
> Monier Williams: Search Results
> 1
> muka
> m. the smell of cowdung ; mf(%{A})n. having the smell of cowdung L.
> 2
> mukA
> f. N. of a town VP. [819,2]
> 3
> mUka
> (S3Br. %{mUka4}) mf(%{A})n. `" tied or bound "' (scil. tongue-tied) , dumb , speechless , mute , silent VS. &c. &c. ; wretched , poor L. ; m. a fish L. ; the offspring of a mule and mare L. ; N. of a Da1nsva MBh. ; of a serpent-demon ib. ; of a poet Cat. ; (%{A}) f. a crucible L. (= or w.r. for %{mUSA}).
>
>
> >>Thanks for solving the meaning of मुकेश - the lord of the smell of cowdung. 
>
> महाहास - LOL
>

> Thanks for providing the dictionary entry to support the meaning.


>
> However think we can go with the meaning as Shiva- Lord of mukasura-a daanava son of upasunda. (posted previously in this group by me)
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/samskrita/b7RVGdKauCo/eoflT3Q9FQAJ
>

The name asura is not noted in the dictionary entries. Please provide the source or dictionary entry showing it as the name of a asura. But it is मूक which name is shared by three personages, of which is the name of a demon you mentioned according to Puranic Encyclopedia ::

input:     Kyoto-Harvard   SLP1   ITRANS     output:    Devanagari Unicode   Kyoto-Harvard   SLP1   ITRANS   Roman Unicode     CorrectionsHelp

 mūka

[L=4595] [p= 507,2]MŪKA I. A serpent born of the family of Takṣaka. 
This serpent was burnt to death at the Sarpasatra of 
Janamejaya. (Śloka 9, Chapter 5, Ādi Parva).

[L=4596]MŪKA II. An asura. This demon once went to 
Arjuna who was engaged in penance in the forests. He 
had assumed the form of a boar and Arjuna killed 
him. At once Śiva appeared there in the guise of a 
forester and contended that the boar was killed by him. 
A quarrel ensued which ended in a fight between 
them. In the end Śiva appeared before Arjuna in his 
real form and granted him the missile Pāśupata. (See 
under Arjuna).

[L=4597]MŪKA III. A Caṇḍāla devoted much to his parents. 
A Brāhmaṇa named Narottama went to this caṇḍāla 
to learn moral lessons from him. (Sṛṣṭikhaṇḍa, 
Padma Purāṇa).



Now my 2 questions are yet to be answered:
>
> 1) What is the antonym of मुक ? I am sure it is definitely not अमुक.

Why not अमुकः? न मुकः अमुकः = not having cowdung smell. Or any other meaning the word मुक!

> 2) the story of the cow in 
>
> उच्चाटय च वाराहि काकवद्भ्रमयाशु तान्।
> अमुकाऽमुक संज्ञानां शत्रूणां च परस्परम्॥१९॥
> Link is https://groups.google.com/d/msg/samskrita/b7RVGdKauCo/Qj4lH3A9FQAJ
>

What is the question here?

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 21, 2015, 2:36:27 AM10/21/15
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2) the story of the cow in 

उच्चाटय  वाराहि काकवद्भ्रमयाशु तान्।
अमुकाऽमुक संज्ञानां शत्रूणां  परस्परम्॥१९॥


I could not find any story of a crow in the verse. 

It simply prays Varahi to drive away and chase away in all directions each other the enemies named such and such (without any specific name)  like the crows. काकवद् भ्रमयाशु तान्।

The crows do not have any name to identify each other and the aggregate of the enemies are to be warded off away even if any name is not to be mentioned. This is related to the previous sentences.






Anand Ghurye

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Oct 21, 2015, 2:50:59 AM10/21/15
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Karna's wife in Mahabharata was Vrushali . If the name had negative meaning in those days such name would not be given .Please let me know what you think. Thanks

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Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 21, 2015, 4:33:25 AM10/21/15
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On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Anand Ghurye <anand....@gmail.com> wrote:

Karna's wife in Mahabharata was Vrushali . If the name had negative meaning in those days such name would not be given .Please let me know what you think. Thanks


There is nothing to think. Really if कर्ण is सूत्रपुत्र, his wife would be a वृषली. What about the name शुनःशेफः the disciple of विश्वामित्र? There is nothing at all in the naming. The vulgar meaning it  can give.  शिश्नो मेढ्रं मेहनशेफसी ( २. ६. ६८२). शुनो  The same with another disciple whose name is पशुमेढ्रः.  "मध्यमश्च शुनःशेफः शुनः पुच्छः कनिष्ठकः ॥६४॥" 


There are two names of for a lover:

कामुकी and कामुका;  "कामुकी भवति मैथुनेच्छा चेत् । " 
कामुकान्येति। धनादीच्छावतीत्यर्थः। So these are the two names for a lover. 


वृषली 
f. a woman of low caste,

I think it is not the name of wife of Karna.



Anand Ghurye

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Oct 21, 2015, 4:45:26 AM10/21/15
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Dear Bhatsaheb , 

Thanks for your reply . 

Wikipedia quotes Vrushali as the name of wife of Karna . 



Thanks once again for your help . 




Regards ,

Anand Ghúryé

*Training*Development*Synectics
Space Page : 9820489416


Anand Ghurye

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Oct 21, 2015, 6:42:49 AM10/21/15
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Sorry for coming in again . What is the correct pronunciation ? वृषली Or वृषाली and does that change the meaning in any way ?

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 21, 2015, 7:05:18 AM10/21/15
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On 21-Oct-2015 4:12 pm, "Anand Ghurye" <anand....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry for coming in again . What is the correct pronunciation ? वृषली Or वृषाली and does that change the meaning in any way ?
>

As I have already explained, वृषली means the feminine gender of वृषली which is a proper word and the  word is not at all with वृषाली though one could get some meaning as वृष+ आलि/ आली/अलि-अली as the context requires.

Anand Ghurye

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Oct 21, 2015, 9:05:53 AM10/21/15
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Dear Bhatsaheb , 

Doubt cleared . Thank you very much . 




Regards ,

Anand Ghúryé

*Training*Development*Synectics
Space Page : 9820489416


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KN.Ramesh

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Oct 22, 2015, 8:20:18 AM10/22/15
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Thanks a lot Bhat ji for clarifying all my doubts.

Subrahmanian R

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Oct 22, 2015, 10:30:41 AM10/22/15
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Sirs,

वृषाली: - Sri Anand Ghurye has observed that according to Wikipedia the name of Karna's wife was Vrushali. I find that Karna was known also as Vasusena as well as Vrusha. Possibly Vrushali is derived from Vrusha, the name of Karna. I am not competent to define the word, nor assert that Vrushali is from Vrusha. I find from Sankarabhashyam of Vishnusahasranamam वृष: is explained as कामान् वर्षणात् वृष:, धर्म:. there are nine other names of Lord Vishnu all of which are connected with Vrusha: Dharma:. The book 'विग्रह कोश:' defines वृष: as: अभिलषितं वर्षति फलमिति वृष: and वृषा as वर्षतीति वृषा. The vigraha for वृषल: is unclear to me: वृषलुनाति इति वृषल:, then perhaps in Marathi घर्मनाश करितो. Of course, for all these some other meaning is also mentioned in Marathi or so; though it is not clear enough to me for reproduction, it is same as or close to what Dr Bhatt has explained.

With respects to all.

R Subrahmanian


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Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 22, 2015, 11:40:13 AM10/22/15
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All the meanings a word can give, should be taken with reference to the context and not alone or all the meanings of a word given in the dictionaries should be thrust into a word.

वृषल¦ पु० वृष--कलच् । १ शूद्रे २ गृञ्जने ३ घोटके ४ चन्द्रगुप्ते
नृपे च मेदि० । ५ अधार्मिके जटा० ।

The Unadi Sutra for the derivation is1 -106 वृषादिभ्यश्चित् ॥ वृषल:|
The above is the derivation for the word वृषल meaning शूद्र.

Also it can be वृषं लुनाति or वृषं लाति etc. 

On the whole, It is synonymous with शूद्र as per Amarakosha ---

शूद्राश्चाऽवरवर्णाश्च वृषलाश्च जघन्यजाः  ( २. १०. १)

and according to Vacaspatya, it is used in different sentences.

The word वृष or वृषन् are also used in different sense:

"शुक्रले मूषिके श्रेष्ठे सुकृते वृषभे वृषः|"

The Vacaspatya gives many more meanings got the word. 







G S S Murthy

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Oct 22, 2015, 12:06:40 PM10/22/15
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I Think in Mudrarakshasa chanakya refers to Chandragupta as Vrshala most often.
Regards
Murthy

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Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 22, 2015, 12:17:08 PM10/22/15
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The Vacaspatyam cited in my previous post the name of Chandragupta also under वषल.

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 22, 2015, 10:19:56 PM10/22/15
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On 22-Oct-2015 8:00 pm, "Subrahmanian R" <subrah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sirs,


>
I find that Karna was known also as Vasusena as well as Vrusha. Possibly Vrushali is derived from Vrusha, the name of Karna. I am not competent to define the word, nor assert that Vrushali is from Vrusha.


I could not support your assumption and have given the derivations for  वृषल. For the name वृष, it has been used in respect of seven persons in Mahabharata itself:

vṛṣa

[L=12293] [p= 753-1]
Vṛsha^1¦ = Karṇa, q.v.[L=12294]
Vṛsha^2,¦ a Kuru warrior. § 592 (Saṃçaptakavadhap.): VII, 
20(greek) , 804 (in Droṇa's gāruḍavyūha; B. has Vṛshakrātho, 
cf. Krātha^2).[L=12295]
Vṛsha^3,¦ a warrior of Skanda. § 615u (Skanda): IX, 45(greek) , 
2566.[L=12296]
Vṛsha^4,¦ an Asura(?). § 673b (Bali-Vāsavasaṃv.): XII, 
227(greek) , 8263 (among the ancient rulers of the earth).[L=12297]
Vṛsha^5¦ = Çiva: II, 1642; XII, 10372 (1000 names^1); 
XIV, 199.[L=12298]
Vṛsha^6¦ = Dharma: VII, 9627; XII, 3378.[L=12299]
Vṛsha^7¦ = Kṛshṇa (Vishṇu): XII, 1507, 13247 (etymology); 
XIII, 6983 (1000 names), 7030 (do.).

 

Subrahmanian R

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Oct 23, 2015, 1:14:34 AM10/23/15
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Bhatt Sir,
 
Thank you for the clarification and the additional information. I did notice that Vrisha is among the 1000 names and mentioned so in my mail; also that the meaning for that (ie. as one of the 1000 names of Vishnu), the meaning given was Dharma. I seek to know from you if the sixth name Dharma here means Yudhishthira's father, God of Dharma, Yama.
 
With respects
R Subrahmanian

 

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Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 23, 2015, 1:29:13 AM10/23/15
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It simply means धर्म and not as any name धर्म।

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