Here is the key to making sage easier for novices to start using....and it is just javascript that needs fixing up...

[Jonathan Gutow]

OK notebook mavens (also probably SMC if this isn't already integrated):

I think this should be the highest priority for inclusion into the web interface.  See this javascript engine that couples a textline input and a clickable template for generating Tex, LaTex and SageMath expressions.  The SageMath needs work, but this could be a pop-up template window for making input.  See this demo:

http://mathlex.org/demo

It's on github and uses the Creative Commons 3.0 license, so we can use it.  Some of the work was supported by NSF-DUE.  How come nobody has pointed this out before? It is about 2 years old.

Jonathan

Is this something we could apply for a small grant to pursue?

[William Stein]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Jonathan Gutow <gu...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
> OK notebook mavens (also probably SMC if this isn't already integrated):

In case you're interested, we have something similar in SMC. I've
attached a screenshot.
I'll make a note of http://mathlex.org/demo, since it could inspire
additions to the SMC menus/toolbars. Harald is also working on a
more general searchable "wizard".

>
> I think this should be the highest priority for inclusion into the web
> interface. See this javascript engine that couples a textline input and a
> clickable template for generating Tex, LaTex and SageMath expressions. The
> SageMath needs work, but this could be a pop-up template window for making
> input. See this demo:
>
> http://mathlex.org/demo
>
> It's on github and uses the Creative Commons 3.0 license, so we can use it.
> Some of the work was supported by NSF-DUE. How come nobody has pointed this
> out before? It is about 2 years old.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Is this something we could apply for a small grant to pursue?
>

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--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

[Jonathan Gutow]

The menus in SMC are definitely better than the nothing in sagenb. However, except for the intermediate text format the beauty for a novice of the mathlex demo page is that they get a template with simple obvious quantities to replace (e.g. "a" and "b" for the limits on the integral). I think it would not take much to convert the SMC menus to work more like that. The other potential advantage of mathlex is the relatively straightforward ability to generate alternative syntaxes using its text based format as an intermediate. I'm not sure how much better that is than other options, but is intriguing.

Jonathan

> <Screen Shot 2015-01-25 at 7.58.54 PM.png>

Dr. Jonathan H. Gutow
Chemistry Department gu...@uwosh.edu
UW-Oshkosh Office:920-424-1326
800 Algoma Boulevard FAX:920-424-2042
Oshkosh, WI 54901
http://www.uwosh.edu/facstaff/gutow/

[William Stein]

On Jan 26, 2015 6:28 AM, "Jonathan Gutow" <gu...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
>
> The menus in SMC are definitely better than the nothing in sagenb.  However, except for the intermediate text format the beauty for a novice of the mathlex demo page is that they get a template with simple obvious quantities to replace (e.g. "a" and "b" for the limits on the integral).  I think it would not take much to convert the SMC menus to work more like that. 

We purposely did not do that since we wanted all code that is inserted to actually work.   The wizard dialogs might have input boxes like that though....

[Harald Schilly]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Jonathan Gutow <gu...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
> mathlex

I've looked at it. I'm not so sure that this is a well working
solution. In my eyes the reason is, that the input has no constraints.
I've clicked two buttons and I got stuck with something invalid. Also,
when trying to start again with a little bit easier things, it
produced some fantasy code for Sage.

So, my personal approach is to constrain tools like that much more,
especially to start only with examples that are 100% working. I think,
well chosen examples, together with some explanation text, which do
work immediately have a lot more value than such a half-free-form
input system. I'm not sure how the final vision for this is, maybe
there are some aspects where it works well and I've only seen the bad
side.

Also, do not underestimate the ability of a user to abstract away
underlying concepts. This works very well in a constrained
environment, where the chance of hitting a wall or triggering a
problem is smaller.

> The wizard dialogs might have input boxes like that though....

That's a good idea, I have to figure out in detail how this can be
made to work well. It won't be in the first release, where I rather
focus on collecting examples across all areas...

-- harald

[Jonathan Gutow]

> The menus in SMC are definitely better than the nothing in sagenb.  However, except for the intermediate text format the beauty for a novice of the mathlex demo page is that they get a template with simple obvious quantities to replace (e.g. "a" and "b" for the limits on the integral).  I think it would not take much to convert the SMC menus to work more like that. 

We purposely did not do that since we wanted all code that is inserted to actually work.   The wizard dialogs might have input boxes like that though....

OK, that makes some sense.  I like the idea of a floating "compose expression" widget from which you can copy the expression to the insertion point by clicking a button. I think the widget would need to have three regions: template selection menus/buttons; Mathjax standard notation view of expression as it builds; expression as it will be pasted.

Jonathan

[kcrisman]

I think this should be the highest priority for inclusion into the web interface.  See this javascript engine that couples a textline input and a clickable template for generating Tex, LaTex and SageMath expressions.  The SageMath needs work, but this could be a pop-up template window for making input.  See this demo:

http://mathlex.org/demo

It's on github and uses the Creative Commons 3.0 license, so we can use it.  Some of the work was supported by NSF-DUE.  How come nobody has pointed this out before? It is about 2 years old.

The authors know about Sage and know whom to contact, too, though they have their own goals for the bigger project.  I think they would be happy to give feedback if we seriously were interested; I'm not sure it's 100% ready for prime-time either.   I don't think their version of CC is compatible with GPL, in particular the clause that one can't use it for commercial...

[Harald Schilly]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 7:12 PM, kcrisman <kcri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think their version of CC is compatible with GPL, in particular
> the clause that one can't use it for commercial...

Oh, their code is also CC licensed? And yes, the NC part is a no-go.
It has also been dropped, more-or-less, in the more recent versions of
CC licenses which are supposed to be "free", because it is only
counterproductive. See here: http://creativecommons.org/freeworks ...
in particular this "free culture" term.

-- Harald