Band saw needing replacement part

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tookys3

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Aug 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM8/20/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of Craig
Band saw is down needing a replacement part.


See the attached picture ^

The gap around the blade and the platform needs to have a metal plate cover. Not sure where the old one disappeared to during the move.

Somebody used a piece of wood to cover the whole. That is not sufficient, it needs to be a metal plate. And a piece of sheet metal is not sufficient either.

Until it is replaced the machine will be considered out of order, and off limits for use.


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jeezus...@gmail.com

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Aug 21, 2017, 12:31:17 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3
It's not a metal plate. That would be bad for the blade. Most throats plates are made from plastic.
Try doing a search on eBay or amazon for "replacement throat plate" and the brand and model number of the bandsaw. They are usually pretty cheap.

    Jon

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2017, at 9:39 PM, 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hack...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Band saw is down needing a replacement part.

<20170820_204308.jpg>

See the attached picture ^

The gap around the blade and the platform needs to have a metal plate cover. Not sure where the old one disappeared to during the move.

Somebody used a piece of wood to cover the whole. That is not sufficient, it needs to be a metal plate. And a piece of sheet metal is not sufficient either.

Until it is replaced the machine will be considered out of order, and off limits for use.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

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Les Hall

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Aug 21, 2017, 12:34:50 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks
I did not see the original email, just this response.  Has someone been deleting my messages?  

Les


Les Hall

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Aug 21, 2017, 3:35:07 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of thingsofrings
Oh, never mind - I got the original message after all.  The misunderstanding seems to have been a mistake on my part.  It's good to know things are OK!  

Les



On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 11:34 PM, 10BitWorks on behalf of thingsofrings <sa-hack...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
I did not see the original email, just this response.  Has someone been deleting my messages?  

Les
On Aug 20, 2017, at 11:31 PM, 10BitWorks on behalf of jon davis <sa-hackerspace@googlegroups.com> wrote:

It's not a metal plate. That would be bad for the blade. Most throats plates are made from plastic.
Try doing a search on eBay or amazon for "replacement throat plate" and the brand and model number of the bandsaw. They are usually pretty cheap.

    Jon

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2017, at 9:39 PM, 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hackerspace@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Band saw is down needing a replacement part.

<20170820_204308.jpg>

See the attached picture ^

The gap around the blade and the platform needs to have a metal plate cover. Not sure where the old one disappeared to during the move.

Somebody used a piece of wood to cover the whole. That is not sufficient, it needs to be a metal plate. And a piece of sheet metal is not sufficient either.

Until it is replaced the machine will be considered out of order, and off limits for use.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

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tookys3

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Aug 21, 2017, 8:35:25 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of jon davis
Point being is that our tools are dangerous and a "stop gap fix" is dangerous.

The stop gap fix that somebody did with a piece of wood was dangerous. It was made to look like the machine was safe to use. The piece of wood gave way, and sucked my workpiece into the hole, and luckily my hand wasn't close to the blade or my hand would have been too.

A stop gap fix, can cause people to not realize that it isn't safe to use.

If a machine doesn't have a "PROPER" fix, then it isn't fixed at all and shouldn't be used.

This applies to all machines, not just the band saw. 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: 10BitWorks on behalf of jon davis <sa-hack...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 8/20/17 11:31 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hack...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [10BitWorks] Band saw needing replacement part

It's not a metal plate. That would be bad for the blade. Most throats plates are made from plastic.
Try doing a search on eBay or amazon for "replacement throat plate" and the brand and model number of the bandsaw. They are usually pretty cheap.

    Jon

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2017, at 9:39 PM, 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hack...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Band saw is down needing a replacement part.

<20170820_204308.jpg>

See the attached picture ^

The gap around the blade and the platform needs to have a metal plate cover. Not sure where the old one disappeared to during the move.

Somebody used a piece of wood to cover the whole. That is not sufficient, it needs to be a metal plate. And a piece of sheet metal is not sufficient either.

Until it is replaced the machine will be considered out of order, and off limits for use.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

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Kevin Baldor

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Aug 21, 2017, 9:55:50 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3
I think it's worth asking why these things always happen to you James (and luck should not play a role in safety) :P

Plastic does seem to be one of the popular materials.
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/bandsawthroatplatesfor1214and18jetsaws.aspx

More seriously: How much force were you applying to to plate? Those are there to keep cut pieces from falling next to the blade, not to be load bearing. As they always say, let the tool do the work; don't apply too much force.

This is particularly important on a band saw where the blade can easily flex if you apply any force perpendicular to the feed direction and the direction of travel of the blade. I'm sure that it will be covered in the training, but also be sure to position the blade guides as close to the work as possible to reduce that flex.

When cutting particularly small things, make a jig to hold the part onto a piece of wood. I have a couple of clamps like these http://www.thetoggleclampstore.com/201b.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwierMBRCHARIsAHl9i4EPhlQrpwoTQyaHUptb2C9i6MkfJ79gn6hdvKImNjSo52pSFZeUZccaAuHnEALw_wcB at home. Perhaps we need to have some of them in the space to encourage people to make simple jigs.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 7:35 AM, 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hack...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Point being is that our tools are dangerous and a "stop gap fix" is dangerous.

The stop gap fix that somebody did with a piece of wood was dangerous. It was made to look like the machine was safe to use. The piece of wood gave way, and sucked my workpiece into the hole, and luckily my hand wasn't close to the blade or my hand would have been too.

A stop gap fix, can cause people to not realize that it isn't safe to use.

If a machine doesn't have a "PROPER" fix, then it isn't fixed at all and shouldn't be used.

This applies to all machines, not just the band saw. 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: 10BitWorks on behalf of jon davis <sa-hackerspace@googlegroups.com>
Date: 8/20/17 11:31 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hackerspace@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [10BitWorks] Band saw needing replacement part

It's not a metal plate. That would be bad for the blade. Most throats plates are made from plastic.
Try doing a search on eBay or amazon for "replacement throat plate" and the brand and model number of the bandsaw. They are usually pretty cheap.

    Jon

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2017, at 9:39 PM, 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hackerspace@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Band saw is down needing a replacement part.

<20170820_204308.jpg>

See the attached picture ^

The gap around the blade and the platform needs to have a metal plate cover. Not sure where the old one disappeared to during the move.

Somebody used a piece of wood to cover the whole. That is not sufficient, it needs to be a metal plate. And a piece of sheet metal is not sufficient either.

Until it is replaced the machine will be considered out of order, and off limits for use.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

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tookys3

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Aug 21, 2017, 10:10:35 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of Kevin Baldor
Regardless we need the proper replacement part to cover the hole.  And not just some piece of scrap wood somebody places over it and calls good.

---___---
This wasn't force on the plate.

The cut was on a piece of bent conduit. The blade kept pulling the work piece down because the work piece wasn't able to span the hole.

The workpiece was eventually pulled through the thin piece of wood due to the forces of the blade pulling it down during the cutting.

Perhaps a jig would have been better to use. 







Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

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Kevin Baldor

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Aug 21, 2017, 10:45:21 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3
Yeah. that sounds like a matter of feeding it too fast. There really shouldn't be much downward force. That's probably how the last one was broken as well. Though the main reason that they are made of wood or plastic is that they will come in contact with the blade and get "chewed" up if you flex the blade from side to side so it's possible that the old one didn't break, it just wasn't doing its job anymore.

Do you write down the name of the manufacturer? It looks like the parts are not standardized. If we can't find a suitable replacement, we will have to make it out of something. This might be a good job for resin casting with a fiberglass filler if someone would be so kind as to mill out a positive mold for it in the style of http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/ch4/.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:10 AM, 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hack...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Regardless we need the proper replacement part to cover the hole.  And not just some piece of scrap wood somebody places over it and calls good.

---___---
This wasn't force on the plate.

The cut was on a piece of bent conduit. The blade kept pulling the work piece down because the work piece wasn't able to span the hole.

The workpiece was eventually pulled through the thin piece of wood due to the forces of the blade pulling it down during the cutting.

Perhaps a jig would have been better to use. 







Sent from my Samsung Galaxy , an AT&T LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: 10BitWorks on behalf of Kevin Baldor <sa-hackerspace@googlegroups.com>
Date: 8/21/17 8:55 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3 <sa-hackerspace@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [10BitWorks] Band saw needing replacement part

I think it's worth asking why these things always happen to you James (and luck should not play a role in safety) :P

Plastic does seem to be one of the popular materials.
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/bandsawthroatplatesfor1214and18jetsaws.aspx

More seriously: How much force were you applying to to plate? Those are there to keep cut pieces from falling next to the blade, not to be load bearing. As they always say, let the tool do the work; don't apply too much force.

This is particularly important on a band saw where the blade can easily flex if you apply any force perpendicular to the feed direction and the direction of travel of the blade. I'm sure that it will be covered in the training, but also be sure to position the blade guides as close to the work as possible to reduce that flex.

When cutting particularly small things, make a jig to hold the part onto a piece of wood. I have a couple of clamps like these http://www.thetoggleclampstore.com/201b.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwierMBRCHARIsAHl9i4EPhlQrpwoTQyaHUptb2C9i6MkfJ79gn6hdvKImNjSo52pSFZeUZccaAuHnEALw_wcB at home. Perhaps we need to have some of them in the space to encourage people to make simple jigs.
To post to this group, send email to sa-hack...@googlegroups.com.

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Kevin Baldor

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Aug 21, 2017, 10:45:45 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3
But buying a replacement would be a lot less work :P

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Kevin Baldor <kevin....@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah. that sounds like a matter of feeding it too fast. There really shouldn't be much downward force. That's probably how the last one was broken as well. Though the main reason that they are made of wood or plastic is that they will come in contact with the blade and get "chewed" up if you flex the blade from side to side so it's possible that the old one didn't break, it just wasn't doing its job anymore.

Do you write down the name of the manufacturer? It looks like the parts are not standardized. If we can't find a suitable replacement, we will have to make it out of something. This might be a good job for resin casting with a fiberglass filler if someone would be so kind as to mill out a positive mold for it in the style of http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/ch4/.

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tookys3

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Aug 21, 2017, 10:51:58 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of Kevin Baldor
Brand: Rockwell
Model: 14
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Kevin Baldor

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Aug 21, 2017, 10:57:03 AM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3
ordering two from amazon now.

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tookys3

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Aug 21, 2017, 12:01:45 PM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of Kevin Baldor
Thank you kevin.
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jeezus...@gmail.com

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Aug 21, 2017, 12:21:21 PM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of tookys3
It's a little hard to tell from the picture, but were you using the correct type of blade to cut metal? Also the correct speed setting is important. Most woodworking bandsaws don't gear down to a slow enough speed to cut metal. The blade goes to fast, heats up, loses its temper, and stops cutting, which can cause it to grab onto work pieces. Round work pieces are especially prone to wobble, and therefore damage the blade.

    Jon

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Randy Ohman

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Aug 21, 2017, 8:15:05 PM8/21/17
to 10BitWorks
The plate is steel, approximately 14 ga. The blade ideally does not touch it so there is no worry there. If you are coercing a touch then you are trying to turn tighter than you should and, potentially, the blade guides (top and/or bottom) are out of adjustment. The plate and table recess have an anti-rotate key feature to help keep the plate from engaging the blade. Old plates can be refurbished (weld fill and grind), but it is nice you got new ones. If still there, the original is attached to a magnet on the inside top of the transmission cover box. I hadn't had the welder out to fix it yet. 

It was retired after too many had the top blade guide too high (should be only about a 1/4" above your work piece) so the blade flexed side to side and twisted such that the plate slot took cuts and opened up. Ultimately someone trying to cut a small piece (that should have been held somehow as James points out) could support it anymore across a widen slot and that was that.

This saw is "Metal and Wood." There is a speed control transmission. Presently it is in metal cutting speed range. The clutch mechanism needs to be gone through because it is stuck in slow speed. The particular blade installed is a high quality bi-metal good for metal, including steel. At about 1/2" in depth, it is most useful for straighter cuts.

There are wood V-blocks cut specifically to hold rods and cylinders so that they don't spin like a lumberjack log rolling.

On Monday, August 21, 2017 

Kevin Baldor

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Aug 22, 2017, 11:17:35 AM8/22/17
to 10BitWorks on behalf of Randy Ohman
The replacements that I ordered are aluminum. Hopefully they will be flush with the top of the table.

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Randy Ohman

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Aug 22, 2017, 5:08:45 PM8/22/17
to 10BitWorks
They'll be fine...this line of saws all used the same plate. Thank you.
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