Qualifying Computer Recipients based on age

[Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves, Fishes & Computers.]

Good Day Group.

We want to include "qualified individuals" not just on their low-income, or disability, but on their age. 

I have heard many non-profits qualifying seniors based on their age, in order to be eligible to buy/receive a computer as part of the Microsoft Registered Refurbishing program. 

Is this official and/or an accepted practice by Microsoft's RRPNA program? If so, at what age do you qualify seniors at?

Warm regards to the whole community, as usual. 

& Thank You... 

-Christian from Loaves Fishes & Computers in Salinas, CA

[Jim Lynch]

Christian,

As far as I know, seniors or anyone just needs to be low-income and/or disabled. 

-jim

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[Charles M]

Jim I think he's asking if seniors can be included if based on their age rather than income. Our project has always interpreted that anyone who wanted a computer with a Citizenship License had to be low income.

We had a retired volunteer we couldn't sell a computer to with a citizenship license because their income exceeded what we use (Gov't LICO - Ontario) to determine who was qualified as low income. (They did quite well for themselves before and after retiring) They had ample income to go out and buy a new core i7.

I'm sure you could offer a system with the commercial license, but I believe citizenship licenses are out unless the senior is in the low income bracket.

Christian is this what you were asking?

--

Charles McColm, Author: Instant XBMC,
Columnist: Full Circle Magazine,
Project Manager: The Working Centre Computer Recycling Project
Web: http://www.theworkingcentre.org/cr/
Blog: http://www.charlesmccolm.com/
Twitter/Identica/Google+: @chaslinux

[Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves, Fishes & Computers.]

Yes, Charles, that is exactly what I was asking. Thank you for clarifying on behalf.

Thank you Jim as well.

Until we redefine our mission, to stay as relevant as possible for our community (future topic of discussion), we want to sustain our income generated through computer sales, thus we want to qualify as many people as possible, within accepted RRPNA guidelines. I could have written them, but I didn't want to quite yet.

One organization who does qualify based on age, gave very valid reasoning for doing so: Seniors, even though they might have a substantial income, quite possibly are still tentative to make a larger investment in a technology they might not know they can handle/use/understand/learn, until they do, thus the higher (commercial licensing) price might deter such a decision and prevent them entering the digital realm... and ultimately not adopting the Microsoft Platform into their lives, or even further, not spreading the word-of-mouth joy & benefit to other Seniors that comes from the adoption of the Microsoft Platform.

Honestly, I am still quite perplexed on how Microsoft is pro-actively supporting small/medium refurbishers as the price of new technology becomes is lower and lower, thus leaving it up to us to figure out how to survive this quandary. Of course we want to have more affordable equipment (used or new) available to all people to a degree, as long as the lower prices of new equipment is not at the cost of our environment and the society that produces it, which I am afraid it is.  But we, as an organization who is here to survive, and stay relevant as a non-profit, are thinking hard and fast on what is next, and I think we have figured it out; it would be beneficial for all of us to hone/revise/share the updated business model in hopes we can move from a product-reuse-acquisition focused mission to a service based mission. We are seriously looking at spending some serious money to help produce a newly defined mission; but it would shortcut the process if we all weighed in with our ideas/successful practices (what is the "best" business model as a Microsoft Registered Refurbisher?). I'll pick that up in the very near future. 

Cheers to all!

[Redd, Arnold]

?Good Morning,


to add value to our efforts, we offered windows based training to individuals interested in purchasing equipment. $5 per class session, 2 times a week over a 12 week period for basic computer skills training. In addition, organizations such as Comcast partners with non-profits and pay up to $300 for a class session to train individuals in Internet use.



Arnold

________________________________
From: refurb...@googlegroups.com <refurb...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves, Fishes & Computers. <chri...@loavesfishescomputers.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 2:28 PM
To: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Qualifying Computer Recipients based on age

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[Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves, Fishes & Computers.]

Excellent tip Arnold. We just started doing the same thing as you-- for the first time, in Beta, pairing up with another non-profit who serves those 62+. Might you have a contact within Comcast I can speak with?

[Peter Sobotta]

Charles, you bring up many interesting topics and points of discussion.  But there are a few constants, one of them being that the computer market will continue to decline and with that the power of relevance.

The MRR program, while formed with good intent, evolved to be a program of competitive have and have-nots.  With the largest refurbishers seemingly able to avoid the program altogether while smaller firms doing the same risk litigation.  And now that everyone has bought in, MSFT will give away the OS destroying any value in the MRR program that so many of us invested into.

I agree with your observation that any organization that wants to survive needs to move from a product acquisition model to a service based model.  This has been the trend for many years and has finally reached an inflection point.  There is no remaining efficiency improvements, or operational costs that can be removed to counter the lack of demand and over abundance of product in the secondary markets.  Hence the death spiral of pricing and increasing competition.

What has amazed me over the years with my involvement in this group is how incredibly resilient and resourceful everyone is.  If there is one common trait among all refurbishers, it is the ability to deal with uncertainty and creating value within the reverse supply chain.  I think we all take this for granted because it is a required skill to simply survive.  But impressive none the less.  In fact I gave a presentation at ICRS in Colorado on this very topic and how these skills translate into a more relevant market of reverse logistics.  Here is a link to it for those interested.

The key to survival is giving your customers what they want.  If they are asking for refurbished desktops with Windows 7, then spin up the imaging server and deliver the product.  But if they are asking for more relevant products such as tablets, phones, and all of the product we use and like, that will require most refurbishers to reinvent themselves and their business models.

Those that do will be rewarded with another decade of profitable business and happy customers.

Peter Sobotta

Founder | recoupIT

717.856.8903

LinkedIn | Twitter

From: "<Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves>", "Fishes & Computers." <chri...@loavesfishescomputers.org>
Reply-To: "refurb...@googlegroups.com" <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 2:28 PM
To: "refurb...@googlegroups.com" <refurb...@googlegroups.com>

--

[Charles M]

We're one of the smaller refurbishers, this is strictly by choice. We could have gone the route of recycling everything brought in by public and only refurbishing systems from large donations but we chose to consciously be more about helping volunteers learn to build systems and gain hands-on A+ experience. As such we've only ever bought Citizenship licenses and catered to low-income individuals.

That said we have a pretty complex infrastructure we've set up over the years (our refurbishing projects has been around more than 15 years). We know a lot of the challenges commercial providers face which is why we've always tried to work with commercial providers. For example: while we sell Inkjet printers we don't sell ink we send people around the corner to a local ink refilling store. In turn they help us with a bit of ink so we can test printers. If someone doesn't qualify for a citizenship license we send them to trusted local computer stores (Canada Computers).

That said I believe there are still a number of commercial resellers that are not properly licensing their computers through the MRR program. Rather than get the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) disc they use a generic one and bang out a bunch of machines passing them off as licensed because they have a COA and an install that's activated. We know Microsoft's stance is unless you have the original media (HD restore or DVD) + the COA this is a no-no. For us it's frustrating because while we're not trying to compete with these providers we can't send people who don't qualify to them because we can't trust them. Some of the others that did do it right (Canada Computers as an example) don't really sell refurbished systems anymore (only new). As you've pointed out the margins are tough for the commercial reseller.

One problem we've seen over the years with low prices (it's the reason why we don't do free repairs) is that people tend to abuse low cost. When we started with the MRR program we initially offered completely free repairs on our systems for 90 days. We found that a few people abused the free repairs and brought us systems they infected and reinfected with malware week after week because we'd just repair it for free... so we started charging as a barrier to prevent people from taking a too lackadaisical attitude... and it worked. We still get a lot of malware infected systems (but people bring us repairs/equipment from other shops). We've also turned away systems where it was obvious the person spent a fair amount buying the computer new because we really weren't trying to compete with commercial providers (we're busy enough).

Cheers,

Charles

[Ryan]

Great points all around. I know everyone is worried about the customer base they can get and keep. The "value" item that everyone is using to separate themselves is the OS. Welcome to today...the OS has no value alone. Linux, BSD, Google and Apple all knew this. Microsoft has finally started to see this. Many of you have stated a concern for Win10 being available and upgradeable for all with Win7 and up legal or not. This is a great thing. This reduces the number of OS variation that Microsoft will have to support which reduces the costs and target area for exploits. A side effect for us (...maybe) is that it allows us to offer product to more customers without restrictions. Besides, what makes us different from the basement start ups is how refined and complete our system processing is. In general our equipment is more tested and refined then anyone outside our industry reinstalling OS's. Don't forget we can do better work much faster then DVD installation folks anyway. Lets focus on how well we process equipment as our "value" not the exclusive OS offering. This is going away...sorry.

Ryan Mc. 

[Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves, Fishes & Computers.]

Sarah Cade is seeking topics for the upcoming Electronics Reuse Conference. I have proposed the following to her:

I think there should be two topics that should be discussed in an open/roundtable session. Though I feel an open/roundtable format is somewhat attempted (questions from the audience at the end of each presentation (in which there never seems to be enough time for that), or the breakout sessions that allow people to organically mingle and discuss topics on a more one-to-one basis), I think the formatting should change so it's not presenter/expert speaking on a topic to an audience on all topics. These topics (proposed below) require equal input from all refurbishers, because I don't think there is an expert on this topic; we are all experts in some aspect of the RRPNA program.

The two topics I am going to propose are:

1. How can refurbishers stay relevant in their community, using a culmination of examples of various non-profit's business models, and revenue that is available for each example? And I'm not talking about refurbishing new products (tablets/smart phones). This should be a two hour, two part, roundtable session, as it deserves the time.
   
   Some of us refurbishers attempted to seek out an answer to "what's next?" during last year's conference, but it never really fully developed; Some of us are somewhat worried on how we should/can stay relevant to the needs of our community/state/country. I have some good ideas we are going to work towards (thus we can share), but there are a variety of ways that I haven't thought of. 
   
   In a sense, it would be helpful to be offered, say, (3) choices and a road map on how to get there: Continue expanding your product base, or, move towards more structured career readiness/youth engagement in IT/Computer Science, or, other (and collecting e-waste to generate revenue can be apart of this "roadmap" but not on a choice of it's own). It can be an "if you are here" then "you can get here" sort of thing. Most of us have invested a ton of our resources into getting the digitally-improvised married to the Microsoft Product; I feel Microsoft should & can help us out here, and assist us culminate such a road map.
   
   
2. Expanding the rules and regulations of the RRPNA program, to include certain segments of the population that we can target & help. A feedback session, from refurbishers to RRPNA, to also include suggested improvements as well. 
   
   I have heard of certain respected refurbishers qualifying computer recipients based on age. I think Sean Nicolson should work towards loosening up the policies a bit to allow anyone on Medicare/Medicaid or simply, over 65 years of age for reasons provided in my initial posting, for example.
   
   I haven't heard of RRPNA actually auditing anyone, but I'd rather not be in that grey area of not following protocol, yet, serving a valid need that we, the refurbishers, see on the ground on a daily basis (which there are more of these unmet needs that, I'd imagine, other refurbishers see). 

-Christian.

[Sarah Cade]

Thanks again for the great ideas Christian!

 

If anyone else has any other ideas for this year’s Refurbisher conference www.ereuseconference.com please email me directly at s...@pcrr.com.

 

Have a great day.

Sarah Cade | PC Rebuilders & Recyclers

4734 W. Chicago Ave., Chicago, IL 60651 |www.PCRR.com

s...@pcrr.com| office: 773-545-7575 x 7003

 

 

 

 

From: refurb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:refurb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves, Fishes & Computers.
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 2:13 PM
To: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Refurbishers List] Re: Qualifying Computer Recipients based on age

 

Sarah Cade is seeking topics for the upcoming Electronics Reuse Conference. I have proposed the following to her:

 

I think there should be two topics that should be discussed in an open/roundtable session. Though I feel an open/roundtable format is somewhat attempted (questions from the audience at the end of each presentation (in which there never seems to be enough time for that), or the breakout sessions that allow people to organically mingle and discuss topics on a more one-to-one basis), I think the formatting should change so it's not presenter/expert speaking on a topic to an audience on all topics. These topics (proposed below) require equal input from all refurbishers, because I don't think there is an expert on this topic; we are all experts in some aspect of the RRPNA program.

 

The two topics I am going to propose are:

1.      How can refurbishers stay relevant in their community, using a culmination of examples of various non-profit's business models, and revenue that is available for each example? And I'm not talking about refurbishing new products (tablets/smart phones). This should be a two hour, two part, roundtable session, as it deserves the time.

Some of us refurbishers attempted to seek out an answer to "what's next?" during last year's conference, but it never really fully developed; Some of us are somewhat worried on how we should/can stay relevant to the needs of our community/state/country. I have some good ideas we are going to work towards (thus we can share), but there are a variety of ways that I haven't thought of. 

In a sense, it would be helpful to be offered, say, (3) choices and a road map on how to get there: Continue expanding your product base, or, move towards more structured career readiness/youth engagement in IT/Computer Science, or, other (and collecting e-waste to generate revenue can be apart of this "roadmap" but not on a choice of it's own). It can be an "if you are here" then "you can get here" sort of thing. Most of us have invested a ton of our resources into getting the digitally-improvised married to the Microsoft Product; I feel Microsoft should & can help us out here, and assist us culminate such a road map.

2.     Expanding the rules and regulations of the RRPNA program, to include certain segments of the population that we can target & help. A feedback session, from refurbishers to RRPNA, to also include suggested improvements as well. 

I have heard of certain respected refurbishers qualifying computer recipients based on age. I think Sean Nicolson should work towards loosening up the policies a bit to allow anyone on Medicare/Medicaid or simply, over 65 years of age for reasons provided in my initial posting, for example.

I haven't heard of RRPNA actually auditing anyone, but I'd rather not be in that grey area of not following protocol, yet, serving a valid need that we, the refurbishers, see on the ground on a daily basis (which there are more of these unmet needs that, I'd imagine, other refurbishers see). 

-Christian.

--

[Ryan]

Nice idea Christian. Time should be spend on finding a strong mediator/navigator to keep topics on track. This topic group can generate good information but can also cause emotional slow downs that will need to be controlled to help generate the best results.

Ryan Mc.

[Christian Mendelsohn @ Loaves, Fishes & Computers.]

Agreed; a moderator is imperative. I think someone, 'ehem, should also do a straight technical question and answer open forum one time/day. There are so many technical questions; only a straight Q-n'-A would satisfy that desire/demand (I think).