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Mason and Sullivan Plans search.....

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Jim P

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Feb 2, 2009, 4:09:31 PM2/2/09
to
Back in the early 80's I started a Grandmother clock using Mason and
Sullivan plans.
I was looking at the clock the other day and decided I would like to
complete it. Does anyone know where I can possibly
find some copies of the old Mason and Sullivan plans? Are there any still in
existance?


Jim P


Martin H. Eastburn

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Feb 2, 2009, 10:25:46 PM2/2/09
to
I believe there is a clock news group.
Baring that there are web pages.

Good luck with Google.com they seem to find things well.

Martin

Jim P

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Feb 3, 2009, 8:10:37 AM2/3/09
to
Martin

There are not any clock news groups. (only computer over-clocking)
Google does not come up with much except the fact that they closed their
doors years ago.


Jim P

"Martin H. Eastburn" <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:YOOhl.169950$se4....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...

Larry C

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Feb 3, 2009, 11:19:54 AM2/3/09
to

"Jim P" <enamanga(SPAM)@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2vWdnbmiQqLT3xXU...@giganews.com...

I found this on houseclocks.com:

Mason & Sullivan had plans for most of their clocks. Woodcraft, which bought
M&S (and essentially liquidated the company), has only one plan for the
grandfather clock (and no doubt retains the copyright on the others).
Woodcraft apparently has no intention of reproducing any other plans so they
may effectively be lost. This is a list of the clock case plans from the
1987 Mason & Sullivan catalog showing the tremendous variety of clocks and
plans the company had. Unless noted otherwise, plans were for mechanical
movements. Steeple, Double Steeple, Massachusetts Shelf, Desk (quartz), Wall
with Moving Moon Dial (quartz), Mini Tambour (quartz), Coachman's Regulator,
Tambour, U.S. Lighthouse, Scroll, Railroad Regulator, School, Orleans
Crystal Regulator, Williamstown Colonial Tall, Colonial Grandmother,
Colonial Grandfather (this is the only one left at WoodCraft), Early
American Grandmother, Classic Grandfather, Shaker Tall, Connecticut Cottage,
Willard Banjo, Country Wall, Office Long Drop Regulator, Shaker Wall. 18th
Century Boston Parlor, American Mantel, No 2 Regulator, Rose Octagon,
Crystal Regulator, Eli Terry Pillar & Scroll, Calendar Regulator. Vienna
Regulator, Schoolhouse Regulator, English gallery (quartz).


Just keep digging and make some phone calls to some places that come up in
the Google searches. They appear to have been a big outfit so someone out
there should be able to help

Larry C

Larry

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Feb 3, 2009, 12:10:18 PM2/3/09
to
"Larry C" <lccr...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:K8_hl.852$N02.253
@nwrddc02.gnilink.net:

> Mason and Sullivan

Ran across this in a quick Google search...
http://tinyurl.com/ctzczb
Looks like the book is still available.

Larry

John Martin

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Feb 3, 2009, 1:07:11 PM2/3/09
to

I was Marketing VP at Mason & Sullivan in the early 1980s. They were,
I think, the best of the clock kit companies.

M & S bought clock movements overseas and domestically. Most of the
dials were made in-house, and many of the other metal parts were
custom-made.

The wood parts were all M & S designs, although many of the designs
were of course based on famous originals. The wood parts were all
made either in-house or at a local (Cape Cod) millwork shop.

M & S sold whatever the customer wanted - from detailed plans through
turnings and moldings through complete pre-cut wood kits right up to
finished clocks. Their customers were primarily woodworking hobbyists
and clock fanciers, although there were a surprising number of
professional cabinetmakers as well - who found it cheaper and easier
to build from kits than from scratch.

If Woodcraft doesn't have the plans available, you might try
contacting the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors.
Many of the plans were bought by their members, and I'd bet that some
of them still have the one you're looking for.

John Martin

Jim P

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Feb 3, 2009, 1:14:18 PM2/3/09
to

"John Martin" <jmart...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0d14d72-c9a3-4a64...@t13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

John Martin


Thank you very much John
It is a step in the right direction.


Jim P


Jim P

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Feb 3, 2009, 1:14:52 PM2/3/09
to

"Larry C" <lccr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:K8_hl.852$N02...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Thank you Larry

I appreciate your help.

Jim


phorbin

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Feb 3, 2009, 1:22:42 PM2/3/09
to
In article <Xns9BA771C...@207.115.33.102>, rid...@my.valkyrie
says...

And it might be in your local library...

London Ontario's library has one.

death...@gmail.com

unread,
Feb 9, 2009, 11:48:04 AM2/9/09
to

Jim P,
I have a set of plans for a Mason & Sullivan grandmother clock (Plan #
M-170) dated 1964. You can contact me at itsdark@msn if you still
need a plan. Ed

sasa...@gmail.com

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Jul 3, 2015, 3:53:03 PM7/3/15
to
OK, just saw this post, yes, some 6 years later. Do have plans for the Grandmother Case Model 6612 if of any help at such a late date

Stephen

Dr. Deb

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Jul 3, 2015, 5:35:41 PM7/3/15
to
On Tuesday, February 3, 2009 at 11:10:18 AM UTC-6, Larry wrote:
> "Larry C"
> > Mason and Sullivan
>
> Ran across this in a quick Google search...
> http://tinyurl.com/ctzczb
> Looks like the book is still available.
>
> Larry


Alibris has it for $3.00

bullo...@gmail.com

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Dec 24, 2015, 12:27:05 AM12/24/15
to
Jim, I do have plans for 1978 Model 6150 Mason and Sullivan Co plans in full. Have not used them and do not know if the clock mechanism is still available. do you still have the clock mechanism and clock parts? if yes, I might buy from you the clock parts. If I can't find the clock, I will sell the plans. Herb b

Leon

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Dec 24, 2015, 7:59:32 AM12/24/15
to
FWIW, Jim asked in Feb, 2009. Hopefully he still visits here to see your
reply.

Trenbidia

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Dec 24, 2015, 12:43:01 PM12/24/15
to
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 06:59:28 -0600, Leon wrote:

> FWIW, Jim asked in Feb, 2009. Hopefully he still visits here to see your
> reply.

Must be that time again - I just spotted a response to an ancient post in
another group :-).



--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

oneb...@cros.net

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Apr 15, 2016, 10:44:10 PM4/15/16
to
I have an Eli Terry Shelf Clock kit, still in the box but missing the movement. Does anyone know if there are any that would fit it, or would someone like to purchase the kit I have (with assembly instructions)?

John McCoy

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Apr 17, 2016, 6:13:32 PM4/17/16
to
oneb...@cros.net wrote in
news:5419a65c-eb66-4fdf...@googlegroups.com:

> I have an Eli Terry Shelf Clock kit, still in the box but missing the
> movement. Does anyone know if there are any that would fit it

This question is not quite Electric Comet like in it's
brevity, but it's unanswerable for lack of sufficient
information.

Do you have the dial? Do you want an electric movement
or a mechanical one? What are the dimensions for mounting
the movement?

Assuming you want an electric movement, they are all much
the same, and can be bought from dozens of vendors.

John

SLOR...@aol.com

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Aug 5, 2017, 7:59:05 AM8/5/17
to
IS THIS PLAN FOR THE WILLIAMSTOWN COLONIAL TALL CLOCK? I'D BE INTERESTED IF NOT TOO LATE. SLOR...@AOL.COM

cory...@gmail.com

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Nov 18, 2017, 8:27:00 AM11/18/17
to
I have the plans of a Mason and Sullivan shaker grand father clock which I bought in 1980.
pdc...@mail.com
Paul

jackjo...@gmail.com

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Feb 25, 2018, 2:13:07 PM2/25/18
to
I have the parts for this plan. New still in plastic wrapper. I don’t have a clue what I have.

garlan...@yahoo.com

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Jul 6, 2018, 1:41:13 PM7/6/18
to
On Monday, February 2, 2009 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, Jim P wrote:
Do you have model # M160?

chucksa...@gmail.com

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Jan 11, 2019, 9:13:20 AM1/11/19
to
Looking for a dial for Willard Bangor with mechanical movement by mason and sullivan

chucksa...@gmail.com

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Jan 15, 2019, 8:11:24 AM1/15/19
to
Sorry, dial for Willard Bango by mason and Sullivan

todd.r...@gmail.com

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May 14, 2019, 7:37:30 PM5/14/19
to
I have model 7672 plans

JackW

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Feb 25, 2020, 5:14:06 PM2/25/20
to
replying to todd.r.erwin, JackW wrote:
Looking for Morgan and Sullivan tall skater plans c7612c.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/mason-and-sullivan-plans-search-449912-.htm


davenpor...@gmail.com

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Apr 22, 2020, 2:53:51 PM4/22/20
to
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 6:37:30 PM UTC-5, todd....@gmail.com wrote:
> I have model 7672 plans

Would you still have copies of these Mason & Sullivan plans? Thanks. Don

Warren

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Dec 23, 2020, 1:31:39 PM12/23/20
to
I am trying to build this clock. I have all the parts.Need plans. Please respond.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/mason-and-sullivan-plans-search-449912-.htm

gray_wolf

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Dec 23, 2020, 2:57:13 PM12/23/20
to
On 23/12/2020 12:31 pm, Warren wrote:
> I am trying to build this clock. I have all the parts.Need plans. Please respond.
>

Google "clock case plans"

https://www.google.com/search?q=clock+case+plans&source=lmns&bih=494&biw=1143&client=firefox-b-1-d&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRrIqJ8eTtAhUZ96wKHXfzD2gQ_AUoAHoECAEQAA

TimeOut52

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Mar 10, 2022, 12:01:53 PM3/10/22
to
My father built a mantle clock that came with Mason Sullivan clock movement. It has three modes, silent, Westminster and two others. I can figure out how to get clock started. There is no pendulum. There appears to be, what i would call, a starting wheel at the top of the movement in the back. Can not get it keep moving? Can you advise?

Scott Lurndal

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Mar 10, 2022, 1:01:53 PM3/10/22
to
TimeOut52 <e121ec9af568a39c...@example.com> writes:
>My father built a mantle clock that came with Mason Sullivan clock movement.
>It has three modes, silent, Westminster and two others. I can figure out how
>to get clock started. There is no pendulum. There appears to be, what i would
>call, a starting wheel at the top of the movement in the back. Can not get it keep moving? Can you advise?
>
Proofread your post before posting.

Take the clock to a clock repair shop.

Note that any clock needs a source of energy to run, whether it is the
energy in a falling weight, the energy in a wound spring, or a battery.

Leon

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Mar 10, 2022, 5:23:02 PM3/10/22
to
OR, water. I bought my son a clock that runs off or water, just sitting
in its small reservoir.

k...@notreal.com

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Mar 10, 2022, 8:37:33 PM3/10/22
to
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 16:22:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Or a wall outlet. ;-)

DerbyDad03

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Mar 11, 2022, 9:40:58 AM3/11/22
to
Or a wall outlet in a small reservoir. (Use a GFCI) ;-)

Scott Lurndal

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Mar 11, 2022, 10:37:06 AM3/11/22
to
I would probably class that as "energy in a falling weight", or
more technically gravitational potential energy.

Leon

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Mar 11, 2022, 10:42:11 AM3/11/22
to

DerbyDad03

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Mar 11, 2022, 1:55:11 PM3/11/22
to
The water doesn't just "sit there".

Actually it sits there silently screaming as it slowly gives up all of its energy, knowing
that it is destined to be dumped and forgotten about at some point. It can only hope
that the user waters a plant or something similar so that can continue to have a reason
to exist. So sad. So lonely.

Leon

unread,
Mar 11, 2022, 2:02:32 PM3/11/22
to
There is no sound or screams silent or otherwise from the clock and or
the water.

Tree Hugger! ;~)

DerbyDad03

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Mar 11, 2022, 3:15:00 PM3/11/22
to
Look closely:

https://image.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/droplet-water-screams-panic-600w-1460981957.jpg

>
> Tree Hugger! ;~)

I hate trees.

2014: https://i.imgur.com/5q5ZCCU.jpg

2022: https://i.imgur.com/cpGo543.jpg

Somebody told me "That's how trees hug back."

DerbyDad03

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Mar 11, 2022, 6:05:26 PM3/11/22
to
The first one is my van at work, the second is SWMBO's CR-V, in our driveway,
this past Sunday during a 60 - 70 MPH windstorm.

The van was totaled, no questions asked.

The CR-V is at the collision shop being evaluated. With the price of used cars
today, the Ins Co's initial assessment is to repair it. If the collision shop finds
extension hidden damage, it may end up as totaled, but the assessor doesn't
think it'll be that bad.

Leon

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Mar 12, 2022, 11:05:18 AM3/12/22
to
Totaled does not always mean totaled. Typically it means it will cost
more to repair than to buy a like vehicle.
If the vehicle is not damaged beyond the possibility of a successful
repair you can take the payment and pay the difference to complete the
repairs. And quite often it does not take much more money to to do the
repair.

Why not take the money and buy a comparable vehicle? You know your
vehicles service records and its history.

DerbyDad03

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Mar 12, 2022, 2:29:04 PM3/12/22
to
I've been though this more than once. Totaled typically means that the cost to
repair is greater than 70-75% of the cash value of the vehicle involved.

> If the vehicle is not damaged beyond the possibility of a successful
> repair you can take the payment and pay the difference to complete the
> repairs.

Yes, in some cases it's that easy, in some cases - especially on a vehicle
with a low cash value - it doesn't make financial sense. In addition, depending
on the age of the vehicle, you may have to deal with a salvage title, which can be
real PITA. (I would not have to in this case, which is a good thing.)

> And quite often it does not take much more money to to do the
> repair.

Except that you don't get the full payment if they deem it totaled and you buy it
back. You get the repair cost estimate minus the salvage value minus your deductible.
Depending on where those numbers land, your out-of-pocket expenses could be
pretty high.

>
> Why not take the money and buy a comparable vehicle? You know your
> vehicles service records and its history.

Well, in the case of the 2014 incident, I doubt I ever would have found a "comparable
vehicle". It was a 2004 Odyssey with 160K on it. Most 10 YO vehicles with 160K on
them don't look as good as my 10 YO vehicles with 160K on them. I'm just a tad
anal when it comes to interior, exterior and engine compartment cleanliness.
Unfortunately, even if a 10 YO vehicle with 160K is in really good condition, the cash
value is (was) still so low that you'll never get what you had for that money. I've been
through that twice.

Fast forward to 2022...

Based on this current situation your suggestion may not come into play. Two key factors:
the current estimate of the repair and the price of used cars these days. We'll have to see
what the repair shop says after they start taking the hatch off, etc.

According to the Ins Co, the current cash value of SWMBO's 2011 CR-V EX with 112K miles
is...wait for it...$13.8K, taxes included. I was shocked. $9K would have been my estimate.
(Remember my "cleanliness" comment above? $1100 of the $13.8K is a Condition credit
because it's in better condition that most other vehicles in that space.)

The accessor's repair estimate is about $6K, nowhere near the 70-75% "totaled" amount.
However, the accessor does not want the shop to order any parts until they've checked the
vehicle for unseen structural damage. It could still end up being totaled. I should know
more next week. Maybe $13.8K will get us a "comparable vehicle", but probably not.

Current local availability for a CR-V EX starts at a 2014 with 106K for $17K plus tax and
title, probably pushing $19K. Not sure about it's overall condition though.

Leon

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Mar 12, 2022, 6:03:11 PM3/12/22
to
The policy will spell out how this is handled. Not all work like that.
FWIW I managed a body shop many years ago and totaled equaled the
replacement price of a like vehicle.


>
>> If the vehicle is not damaged beyond the possibility of a successful
>> repair you can take the payment and pay the difference to complete the
>> repairs.
>
> Yes, in some cases it's that easy, in some cases - especially on a vehicle
> with a low cash value - it doesn't make financial sense. In addition, depending
> on the age of the vehicle, you may have to deal with a salvage title, which can be
> real PITA. (I would not have to in this case, which is a good thing.)

At a certain point one should not insure a vehicle if it's value is low.


>
>> And quite often it does not take much more money to to do the
>> repair.
>
> Except that you don't get the full payment if they deem it totaled and you buy it
> back.

Again, ask question about the specific policy. And that would also
depend on the type of coverage.


You get the repair cost estimate minus the salvage value minus your
deductible.
> Depending on where those numbers land, your out-of-pocket expenses could be
> pretty high.
>
>>
>> Why not take the money and buy a comparable vehicle? You know your
>> vehicles service records and its history.
>
> Well, in the case of the 2014 incident, I doubt I ever would have found a "comparable
> vehicle". It was a 2004 Odyssey with 160K on it. Most 10 YO vehicles with 160K on
> them don't look as good as my 10 YO vehicles with 160K on them. I'm just a tad
> anal when it comes to interior, exterior and engine compartment cleanliness.
> Unfortunately, even if a 10 YO vehicle with 160K is in really good condition, the cash
> value is (was) still so low that you'll never get what you had for that money. I've been
> through that twice.
>
> Fast forward to 2022...
>
> Based on this current situation your suggestion may not come into play. Two key factors:
> the current estimate of the repair and the price of used cars these days. We'll have to see
> what the repair shop says after they start taking the hatch off, etc.
>
> According to the Ins Co, the current cash value of SWMBO's 2011 CR-V EX with 112K miles
> is...wait for it...$13.8K, taxes included. I was shocked. $9K would have been my estimate.
> (Remember my "cleanliness" comment above? $1100 of the $13.8K is a Condition credit
> because it's in better condition that most other vehicles in that space.)

We are in strange times, I am hearing that used vehicles are bringing up
to 50% more than they did 2 years ago.

k...@notreal.com

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Mar 12, 2022, 7:50:45 PM3/12/22
to
On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 17:03:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
The "cash value" is the same as "the replacement price". The 70-75%
number comes in because there could easily be hidden damage that would
push the repair cost over the value of the vehicle.

Some will replace the vehicle with a new one if it's under 1yr old.
One of my wife's friends played hell getting even a reasonable
settlement for a car they had for three days before a little old lady
totaled it.
>>
>>> If the vehicle is not damaged beyond the possibility of a successful
>>> repair you can take the payment and pay the difference to complete the
>>> repairs.
>>
>> Yes, in some cases it's that easy, in some cases - especially on a vehicle
>> with a low cash value - it doesn't make financial sense. In addition, depending
>> on the age of the vehicle, you may have to deal with a salvage title, which can be
>> real PITA. (I would not have to in this case, which is a good thing.)
>
>At a certain point one should not insure a vehicle if it's value is low.

Insurance is designed to cover what you can't (easily) afford to lose.
For the same reason, deductibles should be on the high side.
It's a rare time where one wishes one had a car coming off lease right
now. People are picking up $5K and even 10K buying out a lease, then
turning around and selling it.

My eight year-old F150 was totaled last July. The payout was $21K. I
paid just over $25k for it in 2013. We looked at one F150 with
16K miles for $38K. I bought my 2021 "loaded" (all XLT trim packages)
F150 for $38K, all in (taxes destination...). I hit both right with
rebates. ;-)

Used cars are ridiculous but there are still some deals to be made on
new vehicles. Some dealers are raping their customers. Some aren't.

DerbyDad03

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Mar 12, 2022, 8:33:22 PM3/12/22
to
If the following site is correct, it appears that most states spell out how that will
works, not the insurance company. There are others sites that say the same thing,
but I didn't compare the values state by state across those sites. Not sure the actual
numbers matter but the fact that certain states set the limit appears to be real.

According to the following site, for states that don't set a percentage, a TLF (Total
Loss Formula) is used (22 states). Fair market value of a vehicle minus its salvage
value.

Of the remaining states that do set a percentage, the 70%-75% figure that I used
earlier is a very close 2nd to the TLF states at 21. There is smattering of 60%, 65%,
80%, etc.

Only 2 states (yours and Colorado) use 100% as a stated percentage.

https://totallossappraisals.com/total-loss-threshold-by-state/

Michael Trew

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Mar 12, 2022, 10:39:42 PM3/12/22
to
On 3/10/2022 12:01, TimeOut52 wrote:
> My father built a mantle clock that came with Mason Sullivan clock
> movement. It has three modes, silent, Westminster and two others. I can
> figure out how to get clock started. There is no pendulum. There appears
> to be, what i would call, a starting wheel at the top of the movement in
> the back. Can not get it keep moving? Can you advise?

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any clock newsgroups. Your best bet is
to take it to a clock repairman for a consultation. Your local antique
store might have a lead. I work at an antique mall in town, and one of
our regular customers has a clock repair business. I have an old mantle
clock that I need to take to him. It might keep time for an hour, or a
couple of days, but the pendulum always eventually stops.

Leon

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Mar 13, 2022, 6:30:04 PM3/13/22
to
Something else to consider, at least in Texas, and this concerns
purchasing auto insurance. While regulated, that is all relative after
certain individual factors.

If 2 individuals live next door to each other, buy identical vehicles
for the exact same price, are the exact same sex and age, and finally
work for the same company making the same wage, their quotes can be
different.
Credit score can cost you hundreds.




Leon

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Mar 13, 2022, 6:37:49 PM3/13/22
to
Wind up clocks typically need regular maintenance to prevent them from
simply wearing out. We have a clock that we got new 40+ years ago. I
never maintained it other than winding it. Finally about 9 years ago it
simply would not run at all.

The repair guy said I could pay him to disassemble and clean but it was
likely going to need some parts replaced/repaired. That would be 2x~3x
dollars. Or put in a new movement, exactly the same, for 1x dollars.
And then on a 1~3 year maintenance schedule to make it last
indefinitely, pay .4x.

k...@notreal.com

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Mar 13, 2022, 10:33:05 PM3/13/22
to
On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:29:53 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
That's true in most of the country. Auto insurance isn't alone.
Homeowner's insurance is the same. There is a strong correlation
between credit score and risk. It's pretty easy to see the causality
direction so it's a good marker for cost/price.

Michael Trew

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Mar 15, 2022, 12:14:49 AM3/15/22
to
I would have it repaired, personally. The new movement ruins the
nostalgia for an antique clock, in my opinion. Same for people who gut
old radios, etc. I restore them and listen to AM broadcasts.

Leon

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Mar 15, 2022, 10:43:42 AM3/15/22
to
Understood. If my clock was a hundred years old I "might" consider
paying the extra money to have it repaired. I my case, the Seth Thomas
movement is generic, so to speak. I was able to find the same
brand/company that provided the original movement so it is not like Seth
Thomas made all of the components of the clock to begin with.

In my case, the clock is only 42 years old. It would be like you
restoring a Magnavox or Zenith radio and finding the original
electronics that were made by Panasonic.

k...@notreal.com

unread,
Mar 15, 2022, 5:24:56 PM3/15/22
to
On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 09:43:33 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
I wouldn't restore it. What would I do with it? If I knew someone
who could use it, they can have it but even though I remember much of
the electronics of that era, I have no wish to own them now. They
sounded like crap then and I can't imagine them being any better now.

The "All American Five" was a damn dangerous contraption. I'm
surprised more people weren't electrocuted (it's the famous
drop-it-in-the-water murder weapon). Nope no nostalgia here either.

The "good old days" in some ways was a better time but electronics
wasn't one of them.
>
>Understood. If my clock was a hundred years old I "might" consider
>paying the extra money to have it repaired. I my case, the Seth Thomas
>movement is generic, so to speak. I was able to find the same
>brand/company that provided the original movement so it is not like Seth
>Thomas made all of the components of the clock to begin with.

If your radio were 100 years old, it would be worth some real money
though it might be quite hard to repair it.

k...@notreal.com

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Mar 15, 2022, 5:29:59 PM3/15/22
to
I started thinking about this just as I hit the send button. KDKA
started transmitting on Nov. 2 1920, so 100yrs isn't that much of a
stretch.

Carlo latino

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Jun 8, 2022, 7:31:42 PM6/8/22
to
Is this a kit ? I have assembly instructions for model 7152.

dave b

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Sep 1, 2022, 2:02:12 PM9/1/22
to
I just found your post from 6 years ago. Do you still have a copy of these plans? If you do could you send/sell me a copy please?

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 1, 2022, 10:17:10 PM9/1/22
to
On Thu, 01 Sep 2022 18:02:08 +0000, dave b
<7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> wrote:

>I just found your post from 6 years ago. Do you still have a copy of these plans? If you do could you send/sell me a copy please?

And just why do you think anyone cares what a troll is selling.
Including, possibly, a virus.

dave b

unread,
Sep 4, 2022, 1:01:34 AM9/4/22
to
Why do you think I'm a troll? I thought this was a thread about M&S grandfather clock plans.

Markem618

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Sep 4, 2022, 1:10:25 AM9/4/22
to
On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 05:01:29 +0000, dave b
<7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> wrote:

>Why do you think I'm a troll? I thought this was a thread about M&S grandfather clock plans.

Never mind him he thinks anyone posting from the homeowners site is a
troll. But the thread is 13 years old, good luck but I would not hold
off searching other avenues for the plans you seek.

k...@notreal.com

unread,
Sep 4, 2022, 9:45:55 AM9/4/22
to
On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 00:10:15 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Thinks? When was the last time that a post from there didn't
reference another post that was in this, or last, decade? No one can
even pretend to be that stupid.

Markem618

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Sep 4, 2022, 11:03:54 AM9/4/22
to
You over estimate other humans.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 4, 2022, 2:32:08 PM9/4/22
to
On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:03:45 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:45:49 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 00:10:15 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 05:01:29 +0000, dave b
>>><7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Why do you think I'm a troll? I thought this was a thread about M&S grandfather clock plans.
>>>
>>>Never mind him he thinks anyone posting from the homeowners site is a
>>>troll. But the thread is 13 years old, good luck but I would not hold
>>>off searching other avenues for the plans you seek.
>>
>>Thinks? When was the last time that a post from there didn't
>>reference another post that was in this, or last, decade? No one can
>>even pretend to be that stupid.
>
>You over estimate other humans.

Never. These trolls know exactly what they're doing. Notice that they
never come back? Drive-by trolling.

If you never expect competence, you won't be disappointed.

Markem618

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Sep 4, 2022, 4:37:44 PM9/4/22
to
You never disappoint me

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 4, 2022, 5:26:47 PM9/4/22
to
On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 15:37:36 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
Thank you. Now, go take a course in logic.

Markem618

unread,
Sep 4, 2022, 5:38:52 PM9/4/22
to
Well I never expect you to treat someone just seeking help with a
project from Homeowner Hub site with respect. I can expect you to take
my bait, hook, sinker and line, but I still have my rod and reel.

No go back to yelling at the kids to get off your lawn.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 4, 2022, 10:07:19 PM9/4/22
to
On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 16:38:45 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
I've never seen you help.

>No go back to yelling at the kids to get off your lawn.

Trolls? YBYA

Markem618

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Sep 4, 2022, 11:16:53 PM9/4/22
to
That the trouble with being selective in memories. Bias ya know.

dave b

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Sep 5, 2022, 12:01:43 AM9/5/22
to
Well - He's not totally wrong on several points but mostly
Competence - Nope - I'm not - didn't realize this conversation was *13* years old
and ignorance is not the same as stupid. Stupid is forever. Ignorance may be temporary. And I'm still pretty ignorant on how to use this blog especially with only one eye. You should see me with a table saw! And I still have all my fingers.
But I still need the plans for this model 6150 clock case if anyone can help me (actually my other eye works well enough to use the saw but not so much the computer).

Markem618

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Sep 5, 2022, 12:45:29 AM9/5/22
to
On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:01:38 +0000, dave b
<7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> wrote:

>Well - He's not totally wrong on several points but mostly
>Competence - Nope - I'm not - didn't realize this conversation was *13* years old
>and ignorance is not the same as stupid. Stupid is forever. Ignorance may be temporary. And I'm still pretty ignorant on how to use this blog especially with only one eye. You should see me with a table saw! And I still have all my fingers.
>But I still need the plans for this model 6150 clock case if anyone can help me (actually my other eye works well enough to use the saw but not so much the computer).

Homeowners Hub uses usenet as content, the news group is
rec.woodworking but they also use a couple of other groups.

The fellow who called you a troll does it to almost all post from HH,
his defintion of a troll is his own and really does not actually have
a basis in reality.

Sorry I can not help with your search, good luck.

Puckdropper

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Sep 6, 2022, 2:24:33 AM9/6/22
to
dave b <7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> wrote in
news:1710ce83e874ff0e$19$1937703$4636...@news.newsgroupdirect.com:

> I just found your post from 6 years ago. Do you still have a copy of
> these plans? If you do could you send/sell me a copy please?
>

Have you tried the email address? There's a good chance it's changed, but
there's also a possibility it's the same. Try the other dude too, just in
case. This newsgroup has gone down a lot in recent times, so the chances
of finding someone from 6 years ago is pretty small.

You may also have some luck with the forum here. https://www.nawcc.org/

Puckdropper

Donald Davenport

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Sep 19, 2022, 6:45:07 PM9/19/22
to
I have the plans for the 6150. Still looking for them?

dave b

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Sep 20, 2022, 10:01:38 AM9/20/22
to
I am. I'm currently fighting Covid. How would you like to do this?

Donald

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Sep 20, 2022, 1:15:08 PM9/20/22
to
Let's take this off the board. Email me please.

dave b

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Sep 20, 2022, 4:01:43 PM9/20/22
to
I'm not sure how to take this off the board. Did this work? I tried "Email Poster" from the drop-down under your name.

dave b

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Sep 20, 2022, 4:01:43 PM9/20/22
to
I hope this goes to you by email and not to the forum.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 20, 2022, 5:18:24 PM9/20/22
to
On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 4:01:43 PM UTC-4, dave b wrote:
> I hope this goes to you by email and not to the forum.

Your hopes have been dashed. ;-)

Donald Davenport

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Sep 20, 2022, 5:45:07 PM9/20/22
to
No, didn't receive anything. When I tried emailing you by using the drop down button it was sent to 7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com. That's not a valid address. I tried clicking on my name, I also got @example.com. That is not my email. Don't know how to move past this problem. Not going to post my email address publicly. Suggestions?

Markem618

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Sep 20, 2022, 6:00:54 PM9/20/22
to
On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 21:45:03 +0000, Donald Davenport
<cf1573c4abb35a02...@example.com> wrote:

>No, didn't receive anything. When I tried emailing you by using the drop down button it was sent to 7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com. That's not a valid address. I tried clicking on my name, I also got @example.com. That is not my email. Don't know how to move past this problem. Not going to post my email address publicly. Suggestions?

I have noted that Homeowners hub obscure email address of it's
posters. So there is that.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 20, 2022, 6:22:12 PM9/20/22
to
On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 5:45:07 PM UTC-4, Donald Davenport wrote:
> No, didn't receive anything. When I tried emailing you by using the drop down button it was sent to 7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com. That's not a valid address. I tried clicking on my name, I also got @example.com. That is not my email. Don't know how to move past this problem. Not going to post my email address publicly. Suggestions?

Post your phone number so he can call you and get your email address. ;-)

dave b

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Sep 20, 2022, 8:01:49 PM9/20/22
to
Well it looks like the email poster thing doesn't work and I'm a bit reluctant to post anything like a email address or phone number since I've already been abused as being a troll. Anyone have a better suggestion?

hub...@ccanoemail.com

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Sep 20, 2022, 8:10:34 PM9/20/22
to
On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 21:45:03 +0000, Donald Davenport
<cf1573c4abb35a02...@example.com> wrote:

>No, didn't receive anything.
>When I tried emailing you by using the drop down button it was sent to
> 7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com. That's not a valid address.
> I tried clicking on my name, I also got @example.com. That is not my email.
> Don't know how to move past this problem.
>Not going to post my email address publicly. Suggestions?

If one of you two has a web email that you seldom use
or use mainly for sketchy stuff - post it here ..
I have 3 email addys 1 with my ISP and 2 web-based
for stuff like this and spammy stuff.
John T.

dave b

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Sep 21, 2022, 1:01:46 AM9/21/22
to
Obscuring is one thing but making them useless is quite another!

dave b

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Sep 21, 2022, 1:01:46 AM9/21/22
to
John,
How did you send this (I received an email apparently from John T that may be an guru of the group that didn't get posted to the board)? It looks like it came from a real email address with a reply-to field of rec.woodworking at Google groups dot com addressed to me via the board (something like <7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com>" which obviously doesn't work). Also the reply-to doesn't seem to work very well but I'll give it a try here.
dave (just in case I'm idrathernot201...@gmail.com - let's see if this gets filtered)
BTW - the Reply-To field is bogus too - it bounced - I guess Google Groups is broken!

Donald Davenport

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Sep 21, 2022, 1:01:46 AM9/21/22
to
Maybe post a WTB on Craigslist (or some other forum that allows email) for Mason & Sullivan 6150 plans. Let me know when it posted. I'll try searching for it. We should be able to contact each other then.

hub...@ccanoemail.com

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Sep 21, 2022, 8:08:37 AM9/21/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 05:01:42 +0000, dave b
<7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> wrote:

>John,
>How did you send this
> (I received an email apparently from John T that may be an guru of the group
> that didn't get posted to the board)?
>It looks like it came from a real email address
>with a reply-to field of rec.woodworking at Google groups dot com
>addressed to me via the board (something like
><7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com>" which obviously doesn't work).
> Also the reply-to doesn't seem to work very well but I'll give it a try here.
>dave (just in case I'm idrathernot201...@gmail.com - let's see if this gets filtered)
>BTW - the Reply-To field is bogus too - it bounced - I guess Google Groups is broken!
>

I didn't send any emails. I suspect that google groups and/or
homeowners hub is cludging things.
John T.

Scott Lurndal

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Sep 21, 2022, 9:50:02 AM9/21/22
to
dave b <7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> writes:
>Well it looks like the email poster thing doesn't work and I'm a bit reluctant to post anything like a email address or phone number since I've already been abused as being a troll. Anyone have a better suggestion?

Don't use the useless "home moaners hub" website, which just leaches off Usenet.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 21, 2022, 10:44:42 AM9/21/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:49:57 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>dave b <7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> writes:
>>Well it looks like the email poster thing doesn't work and I'm a bit reluctant to post anything like a email address or phone number since I've already been abused as being a troll. Anyone have a better suggestion?
>
>Don't use the useless "home moaners hub" website, which just leaches off Usenet.

c/leaches/steals
copyrights are copyrights

DerbyDad03

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Sep 21, 2022, 11:38:09 AM9/21/22
to
While usenet content is technically copyrighted, I've always considered
that both the Fair Use and Implied License sections of the copyright act
apply.

"leaching" may not equate to "stealing" under the copyright act since (in most
cases) none of us are harmed when HOH - or any other website that reposts
usenet content - copies/presents said content.

(and by "harmed" I don't mean embarrassed/pissed off by having our nym/name
show up on that POS forum. In that respect we are most certainly harmed.)

If not for fair use/implied license, any of us that ever copied a link or set of
instructions or anything else from a usenet post would be guilty of copyright
infringement.

Markem618

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Sep 21, 2022, 1:42:51 PM9/21/22
to
Unless you post your own copyrighted material to usenet, then you just
put it in free use, voiding your own copyright. Posting something you
do not own copyrights to does not void the copyrights of the owner.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 21, 2022, 5:34:33 PM9/21/22
to
By default, your own material *is* copyrighted. You don't void your copyright
by posting it, but you do (have to) allow it to be used by virtue of the Fair Use
and (possibly) the Implied License sections of the copyright act.

From one of many hits from a search of 'is everything I write copyrighted'

<https://www.writersdigest.com/whats-new/6-questions-writers-ask-about-copyright-and-the-law>

"Do I need to register my work with the U.S. Copyright Office to hold a
copyright on the work?

No. Your work is copyrighted the moment it hits a tangible medium—
everything from your scribbles on a piece of paper to your musings on
your Internet blog are protected. "

and then from:

<https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-rule-copyright-material-30100.html>

"Under the "fair use" defense, another author may make limited use of the
original author's work without asking permission. Pursuant to 17 U.S.
Code § 107, certain uses of copyrighted material "for purposes such as
criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies
for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of
copyright." "

dave b

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Sep 21, 2022, 6:45:07 PM9/21/22
to
I give up. Try braun....@gmail.com - I haven't used this since I was looking for a job (retired now) so it's been a few years. I'll watch for you.

Donald Davenport

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Sep 21, 2022, 6:45:07 PM9/21/22
to
Dave, I don't know what else I can do without your email address. I can't get them to you if we can't communicate. Let me know if you figure out a way to email me.

Just Wondering

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Sep 21, 2022, 7:22:18 PM9/21/22
to
On 9/21/2022 4:45 PM, Donald Davenport wrote:
> Dave, I don't know what else I can do without your email address. I
> can't get them to you if we can't communicate. Let me know if you figure
> out a way to email me.
>
Fine woodworking takes skill but it's not rocket science.
Is it feasible to get photos of the desired clock and reverse
engineer plans?

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 21, 2022, 9:09:31 PM9/21/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 08:38:05 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 10:44:42 AM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:49:57 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>> >dave b <7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> writes:
>> >>Well it looks like the email poster thing doesn't work and I'm a bit reluctant to post anything like a email address or phone number since I've already been abused as being a troll. Anyone have a better suggestion?
>> >
>> >Don't use the useless "home moaners hub" website, which just leaches off Usenet.
>> c/leaches/steals
>> copyrights are copyrights
>
>While usenet content is technically copyrighted, I've always considered
>that both the Fair Use and Implied License sections of the copyright act
>apply.
>
>"leaching" may not equate to "stealing" under the copyright act since (in most
>cases) none of us are harmed when HOH - or any other website that reposts
>usenet content - copies/presents said content.

The fact is that it IS copyrighted.

>(and by "harmed" I don't mean embarrassed/pissed off by having our nym/name
>show up on that POS forum. In that respect we are most certainly harmed.)

>If not for fair use/implied license, any of us that ever copied a link or set of
>instructions or anything else from a usenet post would be guilty of copyright
>infringement.

No, there is no "fair use". You can't copy something in it's entirety
and claim "fair use".

I didn't give permission to use my post, or my name.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 21, 2022, 9:10:44 PM9/21/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:42:42 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
Wrong. Just by the fact of creating something, you have a copyright to
that work.

k...@notreal.com

unread,
Sep 21, 2022, 9:14:17 PM9/21/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:34:30 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 1:42:51 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:44:37 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:49:57 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>dave b <7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> writes:
>> >>>Well it looks like the email poster thing doesn't work and I'm a bit reluctant to post anything like a email address or phone number since I've already been abused as being a troll. Anyone have a better suggestion?
>> >>
>> >>Don't use the useless "home moaners hub" website, which just leaches off Usenet.
>> >
>> >c/leaches/steals
>> >copyrights are copyrights
>> Unless you post your own copyrighted material to usenet, then you just
>> put it in free use, voiding your own copyright. Posting something you
>> do not own copyrights to does not void the copyrights of the owner.
>
>By default, your own material *is* copyrighted. You don't void your copyright
>by posting it, but you do (have to) allow it to be used by virtue of the Fair Use
>and (possibly) the Implied License sections of the copyright act.

Implied license would include all nodes on the Usenet. I wouldn't
have posted it to the Usenet if I didn't expect it to be distributed
throughout the network.

Trivial pieces can be used under "fair use" and parody is allowed
under "fair use". Copying an entire work is not.

DerbyDad03

unread,
Sep 21, 2022, 10:52:33 PM9/21/22
to
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:14:17 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:34:30 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 1:42:51 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
> >> On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:44:37 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:49:57 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>dave b <7871077cd2e560a7...@example.com> writes:
> >> >>>Well it looks like the email poster thing doesn't work and I'm a bit reluctant to post anything like a email address or phone number since I've already been abused as being a troll. Anyone have a better suggestion?
> >> >>
> >> >>Don't use the useless "home moaners hub" website, which just leaches off Usenet.
> >> >
> >> >c/leaches/steals
> >> >copyrights are copyrights
> >> Unless you post your own copyrighted material to usenet, then you just
> >> put it in free use, voiding your own copyright. Posting something you
> >> do not own copyrights to does not void the copyrights of the owner.
> >
> >By default, your own material *is* copyrighted. You don't void your copyright
> >by posting it, but you do (have to) allow it to be used by virtue of the Fair Use
> >and (possibly) the Implied License sections of the copyright act.
> Implied license would include all nodes on the Usenet. I wouldn't
> have posted it to the Usenet if I didn't expect it to be distributed
> throughout the network.
>
> Trivial pieces can be used under "fair use" and parody is allowed
> under "fair use". Copying an entire work is not.

So sue them if you are so sure that you have a case.

Bitching about it and calling them trolls every time you see the HOH tag
line isn't going to get them to stop stealing your precious words.

k...@notreal.com

unread,
Sep 22, 2022, 12:06:01 AM9/22/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 19:52:30 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
Only because they are.

Markem618

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Sep 22, 2022, 12:11:45 AM9/22/22
to
Then do not post on usenet simple, one can fully copy your post of
yours in a reply and have no concern about you claiming copyright
infringment. If you could find a lawyer to take your case you would
being conned out of your money.

Markem618

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Sep 22, 2022, 12:14:02 AM9/22/22
to
Good luck on collecting any royalties.

k...@notreal.com

unread,
Sep 22, 2022, 10:11:11 AM9/22/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 23:11:39 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
You're dead wrong. My copyright exists because I created something. It
is illegal to copy it without my permission. Just because I'm not
going to hire a lawyer doesn't change the facts one little bit.
Homemoaners club is still guilty of IP theft.

k...@notreal.com

unread,
Sep 22, 2022, 10:11:30 AM9/22/22
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2022 23:13:57 -0500, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
Idiot.
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