wobble dado

[Electric Comet]

at first it sounds like an interesting idea but introducing a little
too much chaos for me


they are inexpensive but would not think it would be good for the saw
or the material or the operator



who has used a wobble dado


the cut could not have come out very good

[Ed Pawlowski]

You want cheap or quality? You want "close enough" or professional cuts
and fit? The corners won't be as square because of the way it cuts.
Another opinion here
http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/wobbledado.html

[Leon]

Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.

I have used a wobble dado many times.

It is not harmful to the saw and it runs very smoothly.

From there, the cuts suck. The wobble dado sets cut rounded bottom
dados. If you are using construction grade lumber and need to cut dados
the wobble dado will suffice for rough work.

Don't use if for furniture.

[Leon]

On 1/18/2017 6:43 PM, Leon wrote:

>
> Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
> but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.
>
> I have used a wobble dado many times.
>
> It is not harmful to the saw and it runs very smoothly.
>
> From there, the cuts suck. The wobble dado sets cut rounded bottom
> dados. If you are using construction grade lumber and need to cut dados
> the wobble dado will suffice for rough work.
>
> Don't use if for furniture.

Contrary to the article you pointed at, my wobble dado did not ever
vibrate. Probably cus it was a Craftsman. ;~)

[DerbyDad03]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 6:51:23 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> at first it sounds like an interesting idea but introducing a little
> too much chaos for me
>
>
> they are inexpensive but would not think it would be good for the saw
> or the material or the operator
>
>
>
> who has used a wobble dado

I have a Craftsman Excalibur.

http://www.searsoutlet.com/Excalibur-Dado/d/product_details.jsp

Do you want buy it?

I also have an Amana stacked dado set. A gift from a really nice (and talented) woodworker.

That one is not for sale.

> the cut could not have come out very good

Square sides, rounded bottom

[Larry Kraus]

On 1/18/2017 6:51 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

I bought a Craftsman "Excalibur" carbide dado set back when I still
thought the Craftsman name meant something. This set used two blades
joined by a hub that rotated to change the V angle between the blades.
Greater angles produced a wider dado. The bottom of the dado also became
very concave as the dado got wider, so forget about any kind of visible
joint, or getting any kind of glue strength. The real flaw is that the
dado width also changed up to 1/32" with the tightness of the arbor nut.
Cutting an exact width required much trial, error and luck. Set the hub,
tighten the nut, make a test cut, loosen the nut, adjust, tighten, test,
oops - not the exact same torque on the nut, start over, ad nauseum. So,
no good for finger joints and no repeatability. I had that piece of crap
in our neighborhood garage sale twice a year for ten years, at ever
lower prices. Never had a nibble and finally threw it in the recycling
dumpster at work.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:51:02 -0800, Electric Comet
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:

>at first it sounds like an interesting idea but introducing a little
>too much chaos for me
>
>
>they are inexpensive but would not think it would be good for the saw
>or the material or the operator
>

They aren't too scary. They're really not any more dangerous than a
stacked set. I used on on my Sears RAS but haven't used it since.

>
>who has used a wobble dado

Probably most here.

>
>the cut could not have come out very good

The cut is fine. The bottoms aren't flat, though.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:45:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

Mine doesn't vibrate either. It just sits there at the bottom of the
cabinet.

[Electric Comet]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:54:00 -0500
Larry Kraus <lkr...@att.net> wrote:

> torque on the nut, start over, ad nauseum. So, no good for finger
> joints and no repeatability. I had that piece of crap in our
> neighborhood garage sale twice a year for ten years, at ever lower
> prices. Never had a nibble and finally threw it in the recycling
> dumpster at work.

wow yeah i had never heard of one of these and i could not imagine them
working at all well

have seen a few tables with saw blades resined into the top
good for a man cave

i save all my old blades because i think i will make something some
day
maybe recycling is the better idea

[Leon]

I think mine is in a dump somewhere.

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 4:43:28 PM UTC-8, Leon wrote:
> On 1/18/2017 6:20 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 1/18/2017 6:51 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >> at first it sounds like an interesting idea but introducing a little
> >> too much chaos

> > You want cheap or quality?

I want both.

Wobble and stack both do good sidewalls; I prefer router cuts to get
flat bottoms, though. Routed dado cuts can be stopped more easily, too.

> Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
> but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.

That's half-true; a wobble dado blade is sharpened for ONE width to
get a flat-bottomed cut, and narrower cuts have a ridge down the
kerf center, while wider have dished bottoms.

If all you want is a dado to guide some slide-in inserts, wobble is fine.
It doesn't require you to keep track of a lot of washers and chippers, such
as are missing from my several part-sets of stacked dado blades...

[dadiOH]

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:ScKdndnlo4o0lh3F...@giganews.com...

I do. From time to time. The slightly rounded bottom can be handled in a
couple of ways...

1. Ignore it.

2. Clean it. I have a dado cleaning router bit for that purpose.

But mostly, I use my wobble dado to hog out most but not all of the
dado/groove I want. It does that very well. I then finish with one pass of
a router bit for final width and depth.

[Leon]

On 1/19/2017 4:44 AM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 4:43:28 PM UTC-8, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/18/2017 6:20 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 1/18/2017 6:51 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> at first it sounds like an interesting idea but introducing a little
>>>> too much chaos
>
>>> You want cheap or quality?
>
> I want both.
>
> Wobble and stack both do good sidewalls; I prefer router cuts to get
> flat bottoms, though. Routed dado cuts can be stopped more easily, too.
>
>> Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
>> but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.
>
> That's half-true; a wobble dado blade is sharpened for ONE width to
> get a flat-bottomed cut, and narrower cuts have a ridge down the
> kerf center, while wider have dished bottoms.

I'll bite, what is that one width?

>
> If all you want is a dado to guide some slide-in inserts, wobble is fine.
> It doesn't require you to keep track of a lot of washers and chippers, such
> as are missing from my several part-sets of stacked dado blades...
>

If you have problems keeping up washers/shims and chippers,,,,,,,,

[Markem]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:02:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

Sold my hand me down one on Ebay.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:40:05 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/19/2017 4:44 AM, whit3rd wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 4:43:28 PM UTC-8, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/18/2017 6:20 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/2017 6:51 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>> at first it sounds like an interesting idea but introducing a little
>>>>> too much chaos
>>
>>>> You want cheap or quality?
>>
>> I want both.
>>
>> Wobble and stack both do good sidewalls; I prefer router cuts to get
>> flat bottoms, though. Routed dado cuts can be stopped more easily, too.
>>
>>> Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
>>> but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.
>>
>> That's half-true; a wobble dado blade is sharpened for ONE width to
>> get a flat-bottomed cut, and narrower cuts have a ridge down the
>> kerf center, while wider have dished bottoms.
>
>I'll bite, what is that one width?

Vaires by manufacturer but I think it's 3/4" on mine.

>> If all you want is a dado to guide some slide-in inserts, wobble is fine.
>> It doesn't require you to keep track of a lot of washers and chippers, such
>> as are missing from my several part-sets of stacked dado blades...
>>
>
>If you have problems keeping up washers/shims and chippers,,,,,,,,

Was wondering about that myself. Even if you lose them, they're
available separately. The magnetic ones work really well.

[k...@notreal.com]

How do you guide the router? Seems if you're going to all that
trouble it would be easier to just use the router.

[-MIKE-]

True, in some cases and as usually it just depends on what you're doing.
While router bits are great for making, clean, precise, square cuts,
they are not particularly well suited for hogging out a bunch of material.

As people will do with rough cutting down plywood into smaller sections,
then doing the precise cutting on the TS, I've done the opposite on a
few projects that made it more efficient for me. You hog out the bulk
of material on the TS, quickly and with little effort. They you clean
it up with a precise cut using the router.

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado blade
that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square bottom withOUT
bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Leon]

On 1/19/2017 12:00 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:40:05 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/19/2017 4:44 AM, whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 4:43:28 PM UTC-8, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/2017 6:20 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/2017 6:51 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>>> at first it sounds like an interesting idea but introducing a little
>>>>>> too much chaos
>>>
>>>>> You want cheap or quality?
>>>
>>> I want both.
>>>
>>> Wobble and stack both do good sidewalls; I prefer router cuts to get
>>> flat bottoms, though. Routed dado cuts can be stopped more easily, too.
>>>
>>>> Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
>>>> but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.
>>>
>>> That's half-true; a wobble dado blade is sharpened for ONE width to
>>> get a flat-bottomed cut, and narrower cuts have a ridge down the
>>> kerf center, while wider have dished bottoms.
>>
>> I'll bite, what is that one width?
>
> Vaires by manufacturer but I think it's 3/4" on mine.

I was thinking as close to the narrowest setting.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you here but consider
this and let me know if I am missing something.

Regardless of grind if the blade is straight up and down,the narrowest
setting and perpendicular to the work it will make the narrowest cut.

As you widen the wobble the blade does not protrude as far up as with
the perpendicular setting "on the outsides of the cut". The teeth at
the center of the blade still cuts deep and the tips of the blade, near
the outer edge of the cut, do not cut as deeply. Easier to visualize
using a pendulum and or a plum bob that just touches the surface and
when you swing it away it no longer touches the surface.

>
>>> If all you want is a dado to guide some slide-in inserts, wobble is fine.
>>> It doesn't require you to keep track of a lot of washers and chippers, such
>>> as are missing from my several part-sets of stacked dado blades...
>>>
>>
>> If you have problems keeping up washers/shims and chippers,,,,,,,,
>
> Was wondering about that myself. Even if you lose them, they're
> available separately. The magnetic ones work really well.

The ones that came with my Forrest Dado set are rubber magnetic and one
have gotten away after hundreds of uses.

[Leon]

A "short" top bearing flush cut bit could flatten the bottom. But that
would only flatten the bottom.

[Leon]

On 1/19/2017 1:14 PM, Leon wrote:

>
> The ones that came with my Forrest Dado set are rubber magnetic and one
> have gotten away after hundreds of uses.
>

That should have said NONE have gotten away.

[dadiOH]

<k...@notreal.com> wrote in message
news:0ov18cd4rdmigk7c2...@4ax.com...

The same way as you would do if making the entire cut with the router.

> Seems if you're going to all that trouble it would be easier to just use
> the router.

Well, one could certainly do that; however, IMO, routers are really meant to
trim relatively small amounts of wood. And, IME, they work best in that
manner. If one needs a bunch of 3/4 x 3/4 grooves in 6/4 oak, you could
either hog out most - 11/16 x 11/16 for example - with a table saw in one
pass and then make one light pass with the router to final size or you could
make multiple basses with a 3/4" router bit, gradually increasing the depth.
I find the former easier and better, YMMV.

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:40:21 AM UTC-8, Leon wrote:
> On 1/19/2017 4:44 AM, whit3rd wrote:

[about wobble-blade dados]

> >> Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
> >> but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.
> >
> > That's half-true; a wobble dado blade is sharpened for ONE width to
> > get a flat-bottomed cut, and narrower cuts have a ridge down the
> > kerf center, while wider have dished bottoms.
>
> I'll bite, what is that one width?

For a Craftsman 720.3261, 720.3262, or 720.3263, aka "93261" the instruction sheet
indicates flat bottom for 3/4" width in the as-delivered condition.
Presumably, if you send a wobble set to a sharpening service, you can specify
a flat cut at any width you choose.

The 'W' shape kerf indicated for narrower cuts than 3/4" is fairly easy to rework with
a sharp chisel, of course.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 13:14:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

What you're missing is that the teeth aren't flat.

>
>
>
>
>>
>>>> If all you want is a dado to guide some slide-in inserts, wobble is fine.
>>>> It doesn't require you to keep track of a lot of washers and chippers, such
>>>> as are missing from my several part-sets of stacked dado blades...
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you have problems keeping up washers/shims and chippers,,,,,,,,
>>
>> Was wondering about that myself. Even if you lose them, they're
>> available separately. The magnetic ones work really well.
>
>The ones that came with my Forrest Dado set are rubber magnetic and one
>have gotten away after hundreds of uses.

Ditto. They're available aftermarket, too.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 13:06:09 -0600, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

Multiple passes?

>
>As people will do with rough cutting down plywood into smaller sections,
>then doing the precise cutting on the TS, I've done the opposite on a
>few projects that made it more efficient for me. You hog out the bulk
>of material on the TS, quickly and with little effort. They you clean
>it up with a precise cut using the router.

It just seems that this is a lot of setup work.

[k...@notreal.com]

I was looking for some easy trick that could use the setup already
used for the dado, like Leon's top-bearing bit.

[-MIKE-]

If it takes multiple passes, then that kind of proves it's not good for
hogging out a lot of material, right?

>>
>> As people will do with rough cutting down plywood into smaller
>> sections, then doing the precise cutting on the TS, I've done the
>> opposite on a few projects that made it more efficient for me. You
>> hog out the bulk of material on the TS, quickly and with little
>> effort. They you clean it up with a precise cut using the router.
>
> It just seems that this is a lot of setup work.

Again, it always depends on the task/job and tools.
In my case, where I'm dealing with a pretty good dado/rabbet that just
needs the "bat ears" flattened out a pattern bit is a quick way to
square out the bottom without any extra set-up.

But I also already have jigs made that set up to a cut-line with no
measuring/marking of any kind, so any extra set-up time is negligible.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 20:42:30 -0600, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

Of course. We all understand routers, here. However, it's only one
setup. I worry about registration errors if I were to use two tools
for one operation.

[-MIKE-]

Often, when I do this, I'm hogging it out on the TS a little shy of the
total dimension. Then the router cuts the final dimensions, usually
barely taking any wood with it.

With my dado jig, the process is very fast.
https://goo.gl/photos/StFnQBzCj3J9NCcp8

But like I said, I don't always go to both TS and router.
There are situation and circumstances that make it a no-brainer for me
to use both and there are times when one or the other is a much better
option.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 21:02:16 -0600, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

Whether you want to take a lot or not, the registration has to be
perfect. ...or you will. ;-)

>
>With my dado jig, the process is very fast.
>https://goo.gl/photos/StFnQBzCj3J9NCcp8

Very nice. Bunch of good ideas hiding in there. Thanks!

[Leon]

On 1/19/2017 6:46 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:40:21 AM UTC-8, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/19/2017 4:44 AM, whit3rd wrote:
>
> [about wobble-blade dados]
>>>> Actually the sides of the dado are square to the surface of the material
>>>> but the bottom is rounded so it is not square to the sides of the dado.
>>>
>>> That's half-true; a wobble dado blade is sharpened for ONE width to
>>> get a flat-bottomed cut, and narrower cuts have a ridge down the
>>> kerf center, while wider have dished bottoms.
>>
>> I'll bite, what is that one width?
>
> For a Craftsman 720.3261, 720.3262, or 720.3263, aka "93261" the instruction sheet
> indicates flat bottom for 3/4" width in the as-delivered condition.
> Presumably, if you send a wobble set to a sharpening service, you can specify
> a flat cut at any width you choose.

I don't recall the model, LOL but mine was a Craftsman that I bought in
1979. It had a very noticeable cupped bottom that got worse the wider
the cut.

[Leon]

Understood but their reach is constant. The wider the cut, the
shallower the cut at the edges of the dado.

Mine never gave a flat bottom.

[-MIKE-]

I may be misunderstanding what you mean by registration.
Let's say I need a 3/4" dado cut exactly between 23-1/4" and 24" from
the end of a bookcase side. On the table saw, maybe I will only cut a
5/8 dado slot at 23-15/16" from the edge and a tad shy of full depth.
When I route the final dado slot with the router, I set my guide to the
24" and cut. It makes a very clean edge on all three sides, only having
to cut 1/16" all around. That's just an example.

It's really not different than rough cutting a sheet of plywood a little
large, then cutting down to the final dimension on the TS. The rough
cut is largely irrelevant and the critical measurement is only done once.

>>
>> With my dado jig, the process is very fast.
>> https://goo.gl/photos/StFnQBzCj3J9NCcp8
>
> Very nice. Bunch of good ideas hiding in there. Thanks!

Thank you, it's been really good to me.
Like many of my jigs, it was only intended to be a rough prototype that
would serve as a template for a final version. But it works so well, I
just stuck with it.

[Leon]

On 1/19/2017 11:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
snip

>
>>>
>>> With my dado jig, the process is very fast.
>>> https://goo.gl/photos/StFnQBzCj3J9NCcp8
>>
>> Very nice. Bunch of good ideas hiding in there. Thanks!
>
> Thank you, it's been really good to me.
> Like many of my jigs, it was only intended to be a rough prototype that
> would serve as a template for a final version. But it works so well, I
> just stuck with it.
>
>

Looks a lot like a design I came up with about 12~ 15 years ago. ;~)

[-MIKE-]

A good songwriter is a better thief. :-)

Who knows? Whoever I stole it from probably stole it the guy who stole
it from the guy who stole it from the guy who stole it from the guy who
stole it from you.

[Leon]

OK I think I can see how that can happen now. Not just the angle of grind
on the teeth for a flat cut at a given width but also the teeth that remain
near the center of a 3/4" cut are actually ground shorter in length than
the outer cutting teeth.

That would also cause a high spot in the middle of narrower grooves or
dados.

The one I had was pretty old and not made that way, the wider the dado the
more cup I got in the middle of the grove or dado.

[Leon]

-MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote:
> On 1/19/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/19/2017 11:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote: snip
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With my dado jig, the process is very fast.
>>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/StFnQBzCj3J9NCcp8
>>>>
>>>> Very nice. Bunch of good ideas hiding in there. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Thank you, it's been really good to me. Like many of my jigs, it
>>> was only intended to be a rough prototype that would serve as a
>>> template for a final version. But it works so well, I just stuck
>>> with it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Looks a lot like a design I came up with about 12~ 15 years ago.
>> ;~)
>
> A good songwriter is a better thief. :-)
>
> Who knows? Whoever I stole it from probably stole it the guy who stole
> it from the guy who stole it from the guy who stole it from the guy who
> stole it from you.
>
>

LOL I saw the concept in a WW magazine many years ago. They simply clamped
a=
piece of wood on a cut line and used a sample piece to register another
pi=
ece to clamp. And you know why we built ours the way we did. :-)

[DerbyDad03]

”It's only temporary...unless it works." ;-)

[Doug Miller]

-MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote in news:o5r2k0$9sq$1...@dont-email.me:

[...]

>
> Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado blade
> that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square bottom withOUT
> bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-sets/8-dado-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely satisfied with it. I bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared
test cuts from the two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why
pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the price of the
Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost
imperceptible without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still readily
visible bat ears.

[-MIKE-]

That's one I have bookmarked. I've hear great things about that set.
Have to admit I'm not very happy to hear even those leave bat ears,
though.

The dial-a-dado is the other set on my list.
I think the convenience would be worth the extra money.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:18:56 -0600, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

Ah! That's what I missed. I thought you were only cleaning up the
bottoms with the router.

>
>It's really not different than rough cutting a sheet of plywood a little
>large, then cutting down to the final dimension on the TS. The rough
>cut is largely irrelevant and the critical measurement is only done once.

Yes, now I see. You're just using the saw as the rough cut, much like
I use the track saw for the rough cut, cleaning it up with the table
saw.

[k...@notreal.com]

> 祢t's only temporary...unless it works." ;-)

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary fix.

[k...@notreal.com]

The bat ears are intentional (glue recess), no?

[-MIKE-]

I would say no for various reasons.
I believe they are a byproduct of the effort to cut clean edges.
The pointy sides of the outside cutters are designed to score the sides
of the cut. I don't think they could do so without being the slightest
bit proud of the rest of the cutters.

Just my observation.

Leaving space for glue, IMO, is an old wives' tale.
I think it just developed into something sloppy woodworkers use to give
a reason for their sloppiness.

[Leon]

I doubt it, I almost always have some degree of squeeze out that the bat
ears can not handle. BUT the bat ears are really only visible if you
are looking for them and sometimes not even then.
I do a LOT of cutting with my Forrest dado set and it still cuts
extremely well after 12 years and thousands of feet of groves, dados,
and rabbet joints.

[Leon]

I totally agree with that assessment of the bat ears.

[Doug Miller]

-MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote in news:o5tdoa$fr5$1...@dont-email.me:

> On 1/20/17 7:31 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote in news:o5r2k0$9sq$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>> [...]
>>>
>>> Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado blade
>>> that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square bottom withOUT
>>> bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.
>>
>> Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
>> http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-sets/8-dado-master.html
>>
>> I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely satisfied with it. I
bought it
>> at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared
>> test cuts from the two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why
>> pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the price of the
>> Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost
>> imperceptible without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still readily
>> visible bat ears.
>>
>
> That's one I have bookmarked. I've hear great things about that set.
> Have to admit I'm not very happy to hear even those leave bat ears,
> though.

*All* dado saws leave bat ears. The best you can do is to minimize the size. And the Ridge
Carbide set leaves the smallest ones I've ever seen.

>
> The dial-a-dado is the other set on my list.
> I think the convenience would be worth the extra money.

Maybe so. I'm happy with what I have, though.

[Leon]

Swingman has the Dial's Dado and I think he is pleased with it. I use
the shims with the Forrest. If you have a set of calipers the shim
style dado sets are easy to adjust with out much guess work. I can
typically be ready to cut dado's after one test cut. I do not think
that Swingman always gets away with out a test cut.

I place the approximate set of dado cutters on the saw and finger
tighten the arbor nut. I measure, with a digital caliper, the distance
between the outer teeth and subtract that from the width of the material
to be fitted into the dado. The difference is the size shim you need.

I don't see a clear advantage to either style, and I have seen him make
multiple adjustments before cutting, mostly personal preference. I do
wonder how and or if you have to return the Dial a Dado set to Freud to
have it sharpened.

Having said that, if you could count on material being consistent in
thickness from one job to the next the Dial A Dado could be consistently
dialed in before mounting on the saw. But plywood is seldom consistent
in thickness so the setting that worked on one sheet this week probably
will not work on a sheet in a month. You are still going to have to do
the math to get it right.

[-MIKE-]

I guess the only difference is not having to remove the arbor nut to
adjust it.
I think that's probably reason enough to buy one, all other things being
equal.
The final arbiter for me would be the bat-ears thing and evenness of the
bottom cut.

The Freud dado set I have now is slightly stair-stepped and Freud never
did take responsibility for it. They tried to blame everything short of
the Russians for it. They brought up every excuse in the book except,
"Hey, maybe you got a bad chipper."

[Leon]

It has been a while but IIRC he, on occasions, removed the outer blade
to adjust it. I may just be easier to remove the blade. You do not
have to tighten the blade on regular dado blades, finger tight is good
enough to measure the cutting width.

> I think that's probably reason enough to buy one, all other things being
> equal.
> The final arbiter for me would be the bat-ears thing and evenness of the
> bottom cut.

I thought the dial a dado was a pretty cool idea but I would not grade
my Forrest set for that feature.

>
> The Freud dado set I have now is slightly stair-stepped and Freud never
> did take responsibility for it. They tried to blame everything short of
> the Russians for it. They brought up every excuse in the book except,
> "Hey, maybe you got a bad chipper."
>
>

Either the blade tips were not all ground to the same distance from the
center of the blade or the holes are not a good fit, or both. :~)

And visiting the bat wings again, I'm pretty particular and would never
consider the ones left by my Forrest set an issue to hide. There are
far worse situations that some sets do not address.

[-MIKE-]

Freud's customer service and poor quality control just left a bad taste
in my mouth.
While overall, I've been very pleased with the quality and performance
of their products, to get the shaft the one time I have an issue really
makes me hesitant to pull the trigger on a higher priced item.

I've heard great things about the Forrest and Ridge sets. The fact that
they are both US companies and offer their own sharpening service makes
me lean in their direction.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/21/2017 1:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>
> Freud's customer service and poor quality control just left a bad taste
> in my mouth.
> While overall, I've been very pleased with the quality and performance
> of their products, to get the shaft the one time I have an issue really
> makes me hesitant to pull the trigger on a higher priced item.
>
> I've heard great things about the Forrest and Ridge sets. The fact that
> they are both US companies and offer their own sharpening service makes
> me lean in their direction.
>
>

I have and like the Ridge. As for sharpening, I sent my DeWalt miter
saw blade and a Freud 10" blade and both came back better than when new.

[Martin Eastburn]

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

Martin

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
>and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
>complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
>pick the right set. More is better.
>
>Consider using older wood and newer wood....

I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
either case.

[-MIKE-]

So true.
I've never had plywood from two different pallets be the same thickness
anyway.

[DerbyDad03]

On Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 10:55:18 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/21/17 9:50 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
> > <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> >
> >> If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
> >> and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
> >> complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
> >> pick the right set. More is better.
> >>
> >> Consider using older wood and newer wood....
> >
> > I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
> > either case.
> >
>
> So true.
> I've never had plywood from two different pallets be the same thickness
> anyway.
>
>

Stop building furniture from pallets and your problems might go away.

http://www.palletfurnitureprojects.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Pallet-Furniture1.jpg

[k...@notreal.com]

Hmm, kinda like the stuff we had in college. My FIL called it "early
orange crate". ;-) I wonder how many splinters you have to take out
of your ass after sitting.

[Martin Eastburn]

But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 21:24:13 -0600, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
>version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
>of slot. You need a different mix.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You make no sense.

>
>If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
>from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Huh? You make no sense.

Who cares where it comes from? It's got the be measured. You can't
assume nominal thickness. If you have to shim anyway, who cares if
the set is metric or imperial?

[Leon]

On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
> version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
> of slot. You need a different mix.
>
> If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
> from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.
>
> Martin
>

I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to cut
for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more, hardly
any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.

[-MIKE-]

On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>> But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
>> old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
>> thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.
>>
>> If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
>> coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
> I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
> cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
> hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.
>

I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
thickness, they got lucky. :-)

Heck, you're probably better off having a metric set for "Imperial
plywood" and an Imperial set for "metric plywood." Given the over-under
of each, you're likely to get a better fit with the opposite set.

[J. Clarke]

In article <o64535$g5h$1...@dont-email.me>,
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com says...

>
> On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
> > On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> >> But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
> >> old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
> >> thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.
> >>
> >> If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
> >> coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >
> > I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
> > cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
> > hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.
> >
>
> I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
> thickness, they got lucky. :-)
>
> Heck, you're probably better off having a metric set for "Imperial
> plywood" and an Imperial set for "metric plywood." Given the over-under
> of each, you're likely to get a better fit with the opposite set.

I have no idea what you're on about. The Freud
shim set (available separately from their blades
by the way) allows the stack thickness to be
adjusted in units of approximately 1/10 of a mm,
which is pretty close to 1/256 of an inch. You
can get close enough to any English or metric
dimension for any practical woodworking purpose
with that.

[Leon]

On 1/22/2017 11:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>> But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
>>> old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
>>> thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.
>>>
>>> If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
>>> coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>
>> I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
>> cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
>> hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.
>>
>
> I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
> thickness, they got lucky. :-)

LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is MDF.
That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and pretty much
one the money.

And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which is not
1/2". ;~)

The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often 7/32" so
I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.

[-MIKE-]

I think you're probably in a agreement with Leon and I about not needing
metric shims/blades for "metric plywood" and Imperial for "Imperial
plywood."

I'm guessing both sets have shims thin enough to allow one to dial it in
to any possible dimension... or at least close enough for woodworking.

[Martin Eastburn]

The Glue is different. The thickness is different.

If you buy at the local Hardware/lumber store and get a sheet of say
3/8" by GP or someone - and then buy a "3/8" sheet from Loews and one
from HD - you will find Chile, and other large South American site in
metric that is close but not the 3/8" as you seek.

You have two or maybe 3 thicknesses. But heck it is all the same.
Just more work and different shims/chippers/cutters. Not all sets
give you metric sizes and jump over their sizes.

Martin

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 22:08:20 -0600, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>The Glue is different. The thickness is different.
>
>If you buy at the local Hardware/lumber store and get a sheet of say
>3/8" by GP or someone - and then buy a "3/8" sheet from Loews and one
>from HD - you will find Chile, and other large South American site in
>metric that is close but not the 3/8" as you seek.
>
>You have two or maybe 3 thicknesses. But heck it is all the same.
>Just more work and different shims/chippers/cutters. Not all sets
>give you metric sizes and jump over their sizes.

Forget that. They're different from one pallet to the next. It
doesn't matter whether the set is metric or imperial, you still have
to measure and shim. The width of the cutters themselves don't really
matter much.

[Martin Eastburn]

That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".

The wobble is tough on a saw and a pain to use but is universal. I used
mine on 4x4 benches. When working on Metric Ply I got a nice Freud set
likely like yours - about 6 or so years ago - sounds like they have
small and large sets that are universal now.

Martin

[J. Clarke]

In article <gyAhA.18598$Dv6....@fx06.iad>,
lion...@consolidated.net says...

>
> That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
> It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
> are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".

The shims cost $12.95. If that is "expensive"
to you you should probably take up a different
hobby.

[Leon]

On 1/23/2017 10:16 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
> It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
> are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".
>
> The wobble is tough on a saw and a pain to use but is universal. I used
> mine on 4x4 benches. When working on Metric Ply I got a nice Freud set
> likely like yours - about 6 or so years ago - sounds like they have
> small and large sets that are universal now.
>
> Martin

FWIW, I use the Forrest Dado King Imperial 8" set.

As stated by Forrest it will cut,

CUTS "ALL" SIZED GROOVES 1/4" through 29/32", in 1/32" increments.

The shim set that comes with it includes,
2-.010"
2-.012"
2-.015"

Two .012" and One .015" shims are .001" shy of being 1mm.

All shims together add up to just over 1-7/8mm or .074"

The shims are to handle stock that is not exactly an increment of 1/32"

Any size grove/dado, metric or imperial, can be cut with this dado set
assuming you are cutting between 1/4" and 29/32"

This is how decent dado sets have been made for at least 40 years.

[Martin Eastburn]

I worry about the .001 shy of being 1mm. Hum

Martin

[Leon]

On 1/24/2017 10:49 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> I worry about the .001 shy of being 1mm. Hum
>
> Martin
>

Maybe only if you are building "space craft" ;~)

[Brewster]

On 1/23/17 7:06 AM, Leon wrote:

>
> LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is MDF.
> That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and pretty much
> one the money.
>
> And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which is not
> 1/2". ;~)
>
> The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often 7/32" so
> I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.
>
>
>

Does anyone still buy (or even use) those "undersized" router dado bits
designed for "today's undersized plywood"? Me thinks one would need an
entire set in increments of 1/64"

-BR

[-MIKE-]

I tried one and it didn't last long. I don't think it ever matched a
single sheet.
With my jig, you run an undersized bit along both sides of the dado so
you never have to worry about the size of the bit.

In my opinion, you bet a better, easier cut that way because there is
room for the waste to exit. When cutting dados with straight bits, the
channel can easily clog with chips making a more difficult cut. If you
have a spiral up-cut bit that ejects the chips, then it's not an issue.
But those bits cost a lot more than straight bits.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:40:35 -0600, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>On 1/28/17 8:56 AM, Brewster wrote:
>> On 1/23/17 7:06 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is MDF.
>>> That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and pretty
>>> much one the money.
>>>
>>> And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which is
>>> not 1/2". ;~)
>>>
>>> The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often 7/32"
>>> so I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Does anyone still buy (or even use) those "undersized" router dado
>> bits designed for "today's undersized plywood"? Me thinks one would
>> need an entire set in increments of 1/64"
>>
>> -BR
>>
>
>I tried one and it didn't last long. I don't think it ever matched a
>single sheet.
>With my jig, you run an undersized bit along both sides of the dado so
>you never have to worry about the size of the bit.
>
>In my opinion, you bet a better, easier cut that way because there is
>room for the waste to exit. When cutting dados with straight bits, the
>channel can easily clog with chips making a more difficult cut. If you
>have a spiral up-cut bit that ejects the chips, then it's not an issue.
> But those bits cost a lot more than straight bits.

You're also cutting in the "right" direction on both sides of the
dado, and hogging out less material. The up-cutter is well worth the
money. The solid carbide cutters last forever.

[-MIKE-]

Yeah, I forgot about that. When you cut the whole slot at once, the
router can get a bit squirrely from the two cuts fighting each other.

A spiral bit is on my wish list. :-)

[Leon]

On 1/28/2017 10:50 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Snip\

>
> You're also cutting in the "right" direction on both sides of the
> dado, and hogging out less material. The up-cutter is well worth the
> money. The solid carbide cutters last forever.
>
>

I have found that an end mill up cut bit lasts far longer than any
carbide bit I have used.

FWIW I use to make mouth blocks for Steve Knight about 15 years ago.

In, approximately 2"x4"x 1/2", pieces of Ipe I was plunge cutting slots
about 1.5" long by 3/8" wide in pairs, on each block. I would make
approximately 400 slots in 200 Blocks per batch.

Ipe is extremely hard and tough on cutters. About 2.5 times harder than
oak.

The carbide bits were chipped and just about toast at the end of one of
those runs.

I switched to an end mill bit after about 3 batches and going through 3
carbide bits and never had to replace that bit.

Something to think about, and end mill bits are relatively inexpensive
compared to carbide bits.