band saw belts

[Electric Comet]

anyone tried link belts on their band saw


keep hearing how much better link belts are for other applications
but have not seen mention of using link belts on a bandsaw

probaably cost more but they are supposed to perform better than a
solid belt


also the holes might help to prevent gunk build up under the belt

[Markem]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 10:21:54 -0800, Electric Comet
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:

>Anyone tried link belts on their band saw?
>
>I keep hearing how much better link belts are for other applications,
>but have not seen mention of using link belts on a bandsaw.
>
>Probaably cost more but they are supposed to perform better than a
>solid belt.
>
>Also the holes might help to prevent gunk build up under the belt.

I have link belts on my 14" Delta band saw, it is both a wood and
metal bandsaw with a transmission, it requires two sets of belts.

Price that resarch you could do yourself.

I also have them on my Unisaw.

Yes I did edit your post it is so much more readable!

Mark

[dadiOH]

"Electric Comet" <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:o26vi5$6fp$1...@dont-email.me...

> anyone tried link belts on their band saw

yes

[Jack]

No, why would I want one? None of my belts are link belts, and all my
tools have been working great for 60 years. If your belts ain't
working, your machine sucks, set up sucks, or imagination is wild. How
could they improve on "working great"?

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

[Electric Comet]

On Tue, 06 Dec 2016 14:27:09 -0600
Markem <mark...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have link belts on my 14" Delta band saw, it is both a wood and
> metal bandsaw with a transmission, it requires two sets of belts.

yours has 4 belts or more
not sure what you mean

the common term that i did not use is tire
so are you using link belts instead of tires or just link belts from
the motor shaft pulley to the bandsaw wheel

> I also have them on my Unisaw.

gonna try them on the ts too i think


sort of a year end upgrade

[Bill]

Jack wrote:
> On 12/6/2016 1:21 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> anyone tried link belts on their band saw
>>
>>
>> keep hearing how much better link belts are for other applications
>> but have not seen mention of using link belts on a bandsaw
>>
>> probaably cost more but they are supposed to perform better than a
>> solid belt
>>
>>
>> also the holes might help to prevent gunk build up under the belt
>>
> No, why would I want one? None of my belts are link belts, and all my
> tools have been working great for 60 years. If your belts ain't
> working, your machine sucks, set up sucks, or imagination is wild.
> How could they improve on "working great"?
>

Just a hunch (as I don't own one). They could get rid of any "memory" a
typical belt could acquire.

[Leon]

On 12/6/2016 3:54 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/6/2016 1:21 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> anyone tried link belts on their band saw
>>
>>
>> keep hearing how much better link belts are for other applications
>> but have not seen mention of using link belts on a bandsaw
>>
>> probaably cost more but they are supposed to perform better than a
>> solid belt
>>
>>
>> also the holes might help to prevent gunk build up under the belt
>>
> No, why would I want one? None of my belts are link belts, and all my
> tools have been working great for 60 years. If your belts ain't
> working, your machine sucks, set up sucks, or imagination is wild. How
> could they improve on "working great"?
>

I had a severe vibration problem with the belts on my Delta DP.
Switched to link belts and it runs vibration free now.

[Electric Comet]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 16:54:45 -0500
Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

> No, why would I want one? None of my belts are link belts, and all
> my tools have been working great for 60 years. If your belts ain't
> working, your machine sucks, set up sucks, or imagination is wild.
> How could they improve on "working great"?

haha that is funny


are you an optimist or a pessimist

[Jack]

Amazing. I've never had a belted tool vibrate severely, if at all, from
a belt. Must have been one hellofa screwed up belt to begin with, or
the worlds lightest duty drill press, or some combination of both. Maybe
I've just been lucky over the last 60 years...

[Jack]

My guess is any "memory" would be erased after a few revolutions. Just a
hunch, but most of the vibration is in the sales hype of the link belt
marketing department.

[dadiOH]

"Jack" <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o29kpe$nd2$1...@dont-email.me...

You've been lucky. I recently put link belts on my bandsaw, vibration went
way down

[Leon]

Vibration is one of the reasons that manufacturers are turning to using
serpentine multi-v ribbed belts. IIRC Powermatic was one of the first
back in the late 90's

[Leon]

There are multiple quality type v-belts. Automotive tend to be the
highest quality. Unfortunately tool manufacturers tend to not use them.
I would have replaced my DP v-belts with automotive quality but the
link belts were less expensive.

[Larry Blanchard]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:33:03 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

>> I had a severe vibration problem with the belts on my Delta DP.
>> Switched
>>> to link belts and it runs vibration free now.
>>
>> Amazing. I've never had a belted tool vibrate severely, if at all,
>> from a belt. Must have been one hellofa screwed up belt to begin with,
>> or the worlds lightest duty drill press, or some combination of both.
>> Maybe I've just been lucky over the last 60 years...
>
> You've been lucky. I recently put link belts on my bandsaw, vibration
> went way down

About 10 years ago I bought a 1948 Delta contractors saw that I think
still had the original belt :-). At least it had certainly taken a set.
Got rid of a lot of vibration by replacing the belt with a link one.

Any of the standard belts will take a set if left under tension without
moving for some length of time. The time is dependent on the belt
material.

--
What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie?

[Martin Eastburn]

I've seen belts that segment inside and start to split into two belts.
ONly it is 3-4" long. I think starting under load or held in that
position a long time. Once each on two lathes (cold starts ?) and one
Drill press. In shops that get really hot the lube/tar tends to break
down.

I have link belts on metal, wood lathes and my 85 year old Delta. :-)
The on-off switch on the delta is starting to fail, I might look under
the cover and see what type of switch it is. Bounds to be hard to find,
but I have lots of old versions in sorted cans.

Never needed to put one on my bandsaw (Delta) Open ended pulleys.

Martin

[Jack]

Realist!

[Jack]

The last stationary tool I bought was the 15" planer, it came with 3
standard belts. No severe vibration except when the drive pulley came
loose. This was less than 10 years ago, so I guess they were not aware
of the belt problem, or the solution.

By all means re-belt all your severely vibrating tools with link belts.

[Jack]

Hmmm, didn't know link belts were less expensive. Seems stupid that
tool manufacturers would use more expensive, inferior v belts on their
expensive tools when they could be using cheap, but superior link belts.
Makes the mind boggle...

I can see an advantage if you don't know what size belt you need, as I
understand length is adjustable. Lots of moving parts on a link belt,
right? I wonder if they are as durable? Most of my belts are 60 years
old and still work like new.

If links are cheaper and work better, if I ever replace another belt,
I'll look into the linked belt. As it stands, none of my equipment
vibrates severely and far as I can tell, the belts are ready for another
60 of years of service.
--
Jack
I'm not young enough to know everything!
http://jbstein.com

[Jack]

My DP, TS, jointer, lathe, and Scroll saw are 60 years old. The only
belt I recall replacing was the jointer when I built a new cabinet for
it and changed the belt length. None of my tools vibrate severely, if
at all, and far as I can tell, no set in the belts. Don't know what
they made belts out of 60 years ago, but they don't seem to vibrate,
take a set or wear out. Or, I'm just "lucky"

--
Jack
I intend to live forever... So far, so good.
http://jbstein.com

[Leon]

No, no, no, Automotive v-belts are not what you get with typical
machinery. Typically industrial v-belts are cheap, automotive v-belts
are typically 2~3 times more expensive but the quality is immediately
visable. Industrial are designed to work on less than desirable
applications. I was going to step up to either an automotive style or
link belt.

>
> I can see an advantage if you don't know what size belt you need, as I
> understand length is adjustable. Lots of moving parts on a link belt,
> right? I wonder if they are as durable? Most of my belts are 60 years
> old and still work like new.

Yes about every inch represents another part. It baffles me how these
things work with less vibration. I have read that the vibration is
absorbed by each break, at each link. And link belts do no take a set.
I will add that my link belts are not necessarily quieter, quite the
opposite but they do run much smoother.

>
> If links are cheaper and work better, if I ever replace another belt,
> I'll look into the linked belt. As it stands, none of my equipment
> vibrates severely and far as I can tell, the belts are ready for another
> 60 of years of service.

Stick with what works. ;~) My old 1983 Craftsman contractors saw had
an industrial v-belt on it when I sold it about 16 years later and it
ran relatively smoothly.

Or take your old belt to an auto supply and ask for an automotive
quality belt. Some automotive belts have notches cut out of the inner
surface, perpendicular to the rotation of the belt, this allows the belt
to bend around tighter radius pulleys.

[Jack]

On 12/7/2016 10:35 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> I've seen belts that segment inside and start to split into two belts.

Only belts I've seen fall apart were on cars.

> ONly it is 3-4" long. I think starting under load or held in that
> position a long time. Once each on two lathes (cold starts ?) and one
> Drill press.

I imagine light duty belts in an industrial environment might fail more
often than in a home workshop.

In shops that get really hot the lube/tar tends to break
> down.

I don't know what my belts are made of. Whatever it is, it definitely
last a long long time. They look like standard, everyday fan belts.

> I have link belts on metal, wood lathes and my 85 year old Delta. :-)
> The on-off switch on the delta is starting to fail, I might look under
> the cover and see what type of switch it is. Bounds to be hard to find,
> but I have lots of old versions in sorted cans.
>
> Never needed to put one on my bandsaw (Delta) Open ended pulleys.

I can't imagine a belt causing a metal lathe to vibrate? The metal
lathes I've seen don't vibrate if you load non-concentric turnings in
them. Hard to see how a lowly belt would cause severe vibration in a
1000lb+ tool. Now that I think about it, I've used fly cutters in my
drill press and even then don't recall "severe" vibration at slow speeds.

-- Jack


The older I get the meaner I get. I'm pretty sure soon I'll be biting
people...

http://jbstein.com

[Leon]

On 12/8/2016 10:29 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/7/2016 10:35 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>> I've seen belts that segment inside and start to split into two belts.
>
> Only belts I've seen fall apart were on cars.

True but these belts typically log thousands of hours in very hot and
often wet and dirty conditions. I suspect the industrial belts found on
home woodworking equipment see a few hours of continuous duty each week
if that much.

>
>> ONly it is 3-4" long. I think starting under load or held in that
>> position a long time. Once each on two lathes (cold starts ?) and one
>> Drill press.
>
> I imagine light duty belts in an industrial environment might fail more
> often than in a home workshop.

Absolutely!

>
> In shops that get really hot the lube/tar tends to break
>> down.
>
> I don't know what my belts are made of. Whatever it is, it definitely
> last a long long time. They look like standard, everyday fan belts.

Typically rubber with inner belts. It is hard to say how long they have
actually lasted with out an hour meter. In a protected environment they
will last for many many years depending on how much use they actually
get used. If they were being used every day for the past 60 years you
certainly would have replaced them at least a few times.

[dadiOH]

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:AbudnWGpudTvGtTF...@giganews.com...

> Or take your old belt to an auto supply and ask for an automotive quality
> belt. Some automotive belts have notches cut out of the inner surface,
> perpendicular to the rotation of the belt, this allows the belt to bend
> around tighter radius pulleys.

AKA "cog belt"

[Leon]

Cog belts are typically timing belts that engage a gear type pulley.
The notched I am talking look similar but are v-shaped and do not engage
teeth on a pulley.

[Electric Comet]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 10:01:37 -0500
Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Realist!

here is a real one

one machine that is not used often has belts and the belts tend
to get a memory of the pulley

when that rare occasion comes up that i use the machine the belts
are insisting on retaining their memory of the pulley

seems that link belts do well to eliminate this exact problem


the link belt design may not adapt to use as a bandsaw tire but
then again it might

but apparently no one has tried

[Markem]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 13:45:50 -0800, Electric Comet
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:

>the link belt design may not adapt to use as a bandsaw tire but
>then again it might

Good luck with that, but before you try I can guarantee it won't.

[Martin Eastburn]

I was replacing belts that were attached in the 40's and 50's. These
are not only old, but old design. In one lathe the 'bearings' were in
open races. e.g. not in holders but loose. Just better than babbets.

So these are not modern by any means. Both lathes - metal tool grade and
wood lathe (oldest) run smooth. It takes a little time to run in the
belt and it forms to the V's in your wheels. One then takes out a link
to take out the added slack.

Martin

On 12/8/2016 10:29 AM, Jack wrote:

[Jack]

On 12/8/2016 11:16 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/8/2016 9:53 AM, Jack wrote:

>> Hmmm, didn't know link belts were less expensive. Seems stupid that
>> tool manufacturers would use more expensive, inferior v belts on their
>> expensive tools when they could be using cheap, but superior link belts.
>> Makes the mind boggle...
>
> No, no, no, Automotive v-belts are not what you get with typical
> machinery. Typically industrial v-belts are cheap, automotive v-belts
> are typically 2~3 times more expensive but the quality is immediately
> visable. Industrial are designed to work on less than desirable
> applications. I was going to step up to either an automotive style or
> link belt.

This is news to me. Generally "industrial" means high quality,
expensive, long lasting. I actually thought automotive fan belts were
cheap. I don't have a lot of experience buying belts for my tools, so
I'm certainly no expert. I bought a fan belt for my jointer once,
because I replaced the cabinet it sat on and needed a different length
belt. Had I known link belts were cheaper or even the same price, I
would have gone with that mainly because the length is adjustable. It's
a bit of a pain determining the correct length of a belt, and I'd assume
link belts would be the ticket.

> Stick with what works. ;~) My old 1983 Craftsman contractors saw had
> an industrial v-belt on it when I sold it about 16 years later and it
> ran relatively smoothly.

Perhaps old belts run smoother than new belts? If my belts are anything,
they are old. On the other hand, I don't get how a belt weighing a few
ounces would make a 300-1000lb machine vibrate severely?

> Or take your old belt to an auto supply and ask for an automotive
> quality belt. Some automotive belts have notches cut out of the inner
> surface, perpendicular to the rotation of the belt, this allows the belt
> to bend around tighter radius pulleys.

I've seen those type of belts, but don't have any. Belt wise, I've been
happy with what has been working forever. If I ever need to replace one,
I just might go with a link belt. I see Harbor Freight has a 5' one for
$26. I guess I could get two 2 1/2' belts out of that. I'm still
thinking an automotive fan belt would be cheaper, but not sure.

[Jack]

On 12/8/2016 4:45 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 10:01:37 -0500
> Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Realist!
>
> here is a real one
>
> one machine that is not used often has belts and the belts tend
> to get a memory of the pulley
> when that rare occasion comes up that i use the machine the belts
> are insisting on retaining their memory of the pulley
>
> seems that link belts do well to eliminate this exact problem

How do you know this, do you give them a quiz? Do you take the belt off
and see if it has the wrong shape memorized? What is the problem, is
your 4 oz belt making your 400lb machine severely vibrate?

> the link belt design may not adapt to use as a bandsaw tire but
> then again it might

A band saw tire is not a drive belt.

> but apparently no one has tried

You could be the first. Let me know how that goes. I'm betting your
link belt "tire" will vibrate your socks off...
--
Jack
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity!
http://jbstein.com

[Jack]

On 12/8/2016 11:44 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/8/2016 10:29 AM, Jack wrote:

>> I don't know what my belts are made of. Whatever it is, it definitely
>> last a long long time. They look like standard, everyday fan belts.
>
> Typically rubber with inner belts. It is hard to say how long they have
> actually lasted with out an hour meter. In a protected environment they
> will last for many many years depending on how much use they actually
> get used. If they were being used every day for the past 60 years you
> certainly would have replaced them at least a few times.

Absolutely. In an industrial environment a TS might run continuously
8-24 hours a day. Just guessing, but my table saw probably has less
than a few days actual use. Even a large project like a set of kitchen
cabinets the TS run time measures in minutes, not hours,days etc. Rather
than wear out, I guess the issue would be how long the material would
last with or without usage. I've seen rubber tires on bearings
completely disintegrate just setting in a drawer.

[DerbyDad03]

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 4:46:20 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:

> the link belt design may not adapt to use as a bandsaw tire but
> then again it might
>

Do you mean "may not adapt *for use on* a band saw tire"?

I can't imagine that you plan to use a link belt *as* a band saw tire.

[Electric Comet]

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 09:35:24 -0500
Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

> How do you know this, do you give them a quiz? Do you take the belt

realist

> You could be the first. Let me know how that goes. I'm betting your

when i find a bandsaw tire created using the same technique as a link
belt will let you know

no one has done it yet far as i know

[Leon]

On 12/9/2016 8:26 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/8/2016 11:16 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/8/2016 9:53 AM, Jack wrote:
>
>>> Hmmm, didn't know link belts were less expensive. Seems stupid that
>>> tool manufacturers would use more expensive, inferior v belts on their
>>> expensive tools when they could be using cheap, but superior link belts.
>>> Makes the mind boggle...
>>
>> No, no, no, Automotive v-belts are not what you get with typical
>> machinery. Typically industrial v-belts are cheap, automotive v-belts
>> are typically 2~3 times more expensive but the quality is immediately
>> visable. Industrial are designed to work on less than desirable
>> applications. I was going to step up to either an automotive style or
>> link belt.
>
> This is news to me. Generally "industrial" means high quality,
> expensive, long lasting.

Yeah I can see that. I retired from the automotive world and sold
thousands of belts. With dealerships we only carried top quality
automotive style belts. When I was very young I worked for an auto
supply store that carried automotive and industrial belts. A customer
brought a belt in that he wanted to match in size. It just so happened
the only fit was an industrial belt and I later learned that he put it
on a vehicle, the belt lasted about 3 weeks. Had he told me what it was
going on I would not have sold him a belt at all, we did not have an
automotive quality belt in stock.

I actually thought automotive fan belts were
> cheap. I don't have a lot of experience buying belts for my tools, so
> I'm certainly no expert. I bought a fan belt for my jointer once,
> because I replaced the cabinet it sat on and needed a different length
> belt. Had I known link belts were cheaper or even the same price, I
> would have gone with that mainly because the length is adjustable. It's
> a bit of a pain determining the correct length of a belt, and I'd assume
> link belts would be the ticket.

Pricing is relative. With the dealerships back in the 80's Dayco belts
cost the dealer $14~$20. I suspect if you buy an industrial belt at a
industrial supply or like company the belt will also be expensive.
Industrial at the auto supply were about half the price of the
automotive. One of my vendors sold automotive lamps for cars and he
owned an airplane. When he bought air plane lamps from an aviation
supply the cost was 3~4 times the cost of what he sold the same lamp to
automobile dealerships.

>
>> Stick with what works. ;~) My old 1983 Craftsman contractors saw had
>> an industrial v-belt on it when I sold it about 16 years later and it
>> ran relatively smoothly.
>
> Perhaps old belts run smoother than new belts? If my belts are anything,
> they are old. On the other hand, I don't get how a belt weighing a few
> ounces would make a 300-1000lb machine vibrate severely?

Think about how a 1 oz. wheel weight in the wrong place on a wheel makes
the whole car shake. Industrial belts are not as precision made and or
come in a variety of qualities, as automotive, they often have high
spots and wide spots. Automotive belts are pretty uniform in shape

>
>> Or take your old belt to an auto supply and ask for an automotive
>> quality belt. Some automotive belts have notches cut out of the inner
>> surface, perpendicular to the rotation of the belt, this allows the belt
>> to bend around tighter radius pulleys.
>
> I've seen those type of belts, but don't have any. Belt wise, I've been
> happy with what has been working forever. If I ever need to replace one,
> I just might go with a link belt. I see Harbor Freight has a 5' one for
> $26. I guess I could get two 2 1/2' belts out of that. I'm still
> thinking an automotive fan belt would be cheaper, but not sure.
>

That is where I got my link belt and at the time it was a name brand
belt. That was surprising, you could buy the same brand at a number of
other places which is not the norm for Harbor Freight. Any way the
single belt was long enough to replace the two belts on my DP.

Keep in mind that link belts do stretch quite a bit after a bit of use,
I ended up having to remove a link after some use.

[dadiOH]

"Jack" <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:o2efd4$90h$1...@dont-email.me...

> How do you know this, do you give them a quiz? Do you take the belt off
> and see if it has the wrong shape memorized? What is the problem, is your
> 4 oz belt making your 400lb machine severely vibrate?

It isn't that the belt is CAUSING the vibration but that it is transferring
vibration from somewhere else.

[dadiOH]

"Electric Comet" <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:o2emk0$4pg$1...@dont-email.me...

> when i find a bandsaw tire created using the same technique as a link
> belt will let you know
>
> no one has done it yet far as i know

There is a good reason they haven't; namely, it won't work. HTF would you
expect to run a bandsaw blade on a narrow, thick, rough belt?

[Leon]

Yeah, that really seems off base, not totally unlike considering the use
of a link belt in place of a car tire or a funnel in place of a wrench.

[Leon]

;~) Some people make comments about things they have no clue about.
Like how using a peach to tune a guitar may be a better way. I wonder
if anyone has doe that? LOL

[dadiOH]

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message

news:tv-dnU_OjoP3d9fF...@giganews.com...

Silly you, I have it on good authority that apples are always used.

[DerbyDad03]

REO Speedwagon may have tried it. They've apparently tried weirder things.

http://e.snmc.io/lk/f/l/cf9e0134d43939f088b608569b5805db/1908819.jpg

[Leon]

Well that is common knowledge to many but not all. LOL

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:53:14 AM UTC-8, Jack wrote:
> On 12/7/2016 3:37 PM, Leon wrote:
> > On 12/7/2016 12:40 PM, Jack wrote:
> >> On 12/6/2016 6:19 PM, Bill wrote:
> >>> Jack wrote:
> >>>> On 12/6/2016 1:21 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >>>>> anyone tried link belts on their band saw

> >>>>> keep hearing how much better link belts are for other applications
> >>>>> but have not seen mention of using link belts on a bandsaw

> >>>> No, why would I want one? None of my belts are link belts, and all my
> >>>> tools have been working great for 60 years.

> > I would have replaced my DP v-belts with automotive quality but the
> > link belts were less expensive.
>

> Hmmm, didn't know link belts were less expensive. ...

> I can see an advantage if you don't know what size belt you need, as I
> understand length is adjustable.

It's hard to seek pricing on belts; the online merchants (who don't want returns) favor the
link belts because one size fits all, and the local auto parts outfits (who DO have good stock)
make little profit on the belts, and don't advertise their full stock.

The last belt I bought, was a third the price of the equivalent link-belt. It works
well, no vibration issue (but some of my pulleys, were BIG vibrators; helps to
ream them before installing).

For what it's worth, vibration will have different frequency for motor+drive pulley,
belt, and driven pulley+blade, so it IS possible to FFT the vibration and find the
guilty party. It just takes more work to digitize the rumble and strobe out the
moving parts' cycle rates.

[krw]

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 09:26:49 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 12/8/2016 11:16 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/8/2016 9:53 AM, Jack wrote:
>
>>> Hmmm, didn't know link belts were less expensive. Seems stupid that
>>> tool manufacturers would use more expensive, inferior v belts on their
>>> expensive tools when they could be using cheap, but superior link belts.
>>> Makes the mind boggle...
>>
>> No, no, no, Automotive v-belts are not what you get with typical
>> machinery. Typically industrial v-belts are cheap, automotive v-belts
>> are typically 2~3 times more expensive but the quality is immediately
>> visable. Industrial are designed to work on less than desirable
>> applications. I was going to step up to either an automotive style or
>> link belt.
>
>This is news to me. Generally "industrial" means high quality,
>expensive, long lasting. I actually thought automotive fan belts were
>cheap. I don't have a lot of experience buying belts for my tools, so
>I'm certainly no expert. I bought a fan belt for my jointer once,
>because I replaced the cabinet it sat on and needed a different length
>belt. Had I known link belts were cheaper or even the same price, I
>would have gone with that mainly because the length is adjustable. It's
>a bit of a pain determining the correct length of a belt, and I'd assume
>link belts would be the ticket.

No, in general "industrial" is lower on the totem pole than
"automotive", with the latter being somewhat less than "military".
Automotive specs are, in general, much more rigorous than industrial.

[krw]

Hammer, maybe, but never a wrench.

I think it has something to do with the missing punctuation and shift
keys on his computer.

[DerbyDad03]

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 8:14:25 PM UTC-5, krw wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 11:18:41 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
> >On 12/9/2016 9:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 4:46:20 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> >>
> >>> the link belt design may not adapt to use as a bandsaw tire but
> >>> then again it might
> >>>
> >>
> >> Do you mean "may not adapt *for use on* a band saw tire"?
> >>
> >> I can't imagine that you plan to use a link belt *as* a band saw tire.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Yeah, that really seems off base, not totally unlike considering the use
> >of a link belt in place of a car tire or a funnel in place of a wrench.
>
> Hammer, maybe, but never a wrench.

Hammer?

Can't Touch This!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

[Leon]

No, he stepped in it, no amount of punctuation or word changes hides
that fact. ;~)

Link belts used to patch holes in the soles of your shoes might prevent
you from stepping in poo. LOL

[Brewster]

Consider?


You underestimate the ingenuity of the average moron....


http://www.modifiedplanet.com/garden-hose-used-as-tire-replacement-car-fail/

-BR

[Jack]

On 12/9/2016 12:11 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/9/2016 8:26 AM, Jack wrote:

>>> Stick with what works. ;~) My old 1983 Craftsman contractors saw had
>>> an industrial v-belt on it when I sold it about 16 years later and it
>>> ran relatively smoothly.
>>
>> Perhaps old belts run smoother than new belts? If my belts are anything,
>> they are old. On the other hand, I don't get how a belt weighing a few
>> ounces would make a 300-1000lb machine vibrate severely?
>
> Think about how a 1 oz. wheel weight in the wrong place on a wheel makes
> the whole car shake. Industrial belts are not as precision made and or
> come in a variety of qualities, as automotive, they often have high
> spots and wide spots. Automotive belts are pretty uniform in shape

Good point. On the other hand, I'm thinking about how a grossly out of
balance fly cutter on my drill press does not make my DP vibrate
severely. Also thinking about off centered turnings on my lathe. It
takes a whole lot to get it vibrating severely or at all, far more than
a lowly v-belt could possibly deliver. I'm thinking a wheel on a car is
attached to springs that allow movement, unlike a stationary tool that
is designed not to move so much. At any rate a fly cutter is grossly out
of balance vs a v-belt, or a 1 oz tire weight. Does your drill press
severely vibrate with a fly cutter?

[Jack]

I'm fairly certain he doesn't know what a band saw tire is, or does.

--
Jack
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad
judgment.
http://jbstein.com

[Jack]

On 12/9/2016 5:30 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:53:14 AM UTC-8, Jack wrote:
>> On 12/7/2016 3:37 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 12/7/2016 12:40 PM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 12/6/2016 6:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/6/2016 1:21 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>>>> anyone tried link belts on their band saw
>
>>>>>>> keep hearing how much better link belts are for other applications
>>>>>>> but have not seen mention of using link belts on a bandsaw
>
>>>>>> No, why would I want one? None of my belts are link belts, and all my
>>>>>> tools have been working great for 60 years.
>
>>> I would have replaced my DP v-belts with automotive quality but the
>>> link belts were less expensive.
>>
>> Hmmm, didn't know link belts were less expensive. ...
>> I can see an advantage if you don't know what size belt you need, as I
>> understand length is adjustable.
>
> It's hard to seek pricing on belts; the online merchants (who don't want returns) favor the
> link belts because one size fits all, and the local auto parts outfits (who DO have good stock)
> make little profit on the belts, and don't advertise their full stock.
>
> The last belt I bought, was a third the price of the equivalent link-belt. It works
> well, no vibration issue (but some of my pulleys, were BIG vibrators; helps to
> ream them before installing).

That's what I always thought. Leon surprised me with the link belt being
less than a standard automotive fan belt.

> For what it's worth, vibration will have different frequency for motor+drive pulley,
> belt, and driven pulley+blade, so it IS possible to FFT the vibration and find the
> guilty party. It just takes more work to digitize the rumble and strobe out the
> moving parts' cycle rates.

I guess if I were an orthopedic surgeon using a belt driven tool to
drill a hole in a leg bone to insert a steel rod I might worry about
vibration. Seriously, I never had a belt driven wood stationary tool
vibrate severely from a belt, or from a pulley for that matter, other
than when the three belt pulley on my planer was loose and about to fall
off. That caused some severe vibration, but even then it was more noise
than vibration.

[Jack]

On 12/9/2016 8:10 PM, krw wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 09:26:49 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> This is news to me. Generally "industrial" means high quality,
>> expensive, long lasting.
>

> No, in general "industrial" is lower on the totem pole than
> "automotive", with the latter being somewhat less than "military".
> Automotive specs are, in general, much more rigorous than industrial.

That's news to me. To me, industrial describes something designed to
last a long time in continuous duty, IE; high strength, superior build
lots more money. The term is used often in advertising such as
"industrial strength" cleaner, so it means that to more than just me,
probably about everyone or the ad men would be using "automotive
strength" cleaner instead.

Automotive strength is a term I never heard uttered. Probably because
most people think auto's are designed to fail routinely, specifically
shortly after the 3 year warranty expires, you can expect frequent
failures until replacement.

Military strength is synonymous with industrial strength, but cost 10
times more than industrial strength, and 20-200 times more than
non-industrial strength.

--
Jack
You're never too old to learn something stupid.
http://jbstein.com

[Unknown]

Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote in news:o2ha4q$67q$1...@dont-email.me:

You may not feel the tool vibrating, but the vibration could be affecting
your finish. It'd be interesting to see some before and after shots.

I do know a link belt improved my bandsaw. It was worth the trip to HF.

Hm... You know I might have that red one around somewhere and not on a
tool. If I get bored waiting for the ice to freeze (unlikely, I've got
two Christmas gifts to finish that take priority), I might swap the belt
on my jointer. It's got recently sharpened and set knives, so it should
be a decent test bed.

Oh, btw, speaking of sharpening jointer knives... If you do it on a power
grinder wear your dust mask! I didn't and am getting over a sinus/cold
thing triggered by it.

Puckdropper

--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

[Jack]

On 12/9/2016 8:14 PM, krw wrote:
>
> I think it has something to do with the missing punctuation and shift
> keys on his computer.

You fools have been "wasting" words on EC about missing punctuation and
shift keys since the day he walked on the set. To my knowledge, and his
credit, he has never once responded.

How stupid are yins?

--
Jack
Don't make me use UPPERCASE!
http://jbstein.com

[Leon]

The farther the heavier spot is from the center of rotation the more the
vibration will be amplified.

Springs on a vehicle are to absorb bumps, struts/shock absorbers prevent
over oscillation of the springs.

BUT if you have ever seen a vehicle going down the highway/freeway and
the tire is bouncing on a smooth surface that is typically an out of
balance wheel/tire along with a worn out strut/shock absorber.

AND a little known fact, most tires are checked for balanced at the
factory before they are mounted on wheels. If you look at a quality
brand new tire that has never been mounted there is almost always a
small wax spot, typically red or white, stuck on the tire near the bead
on the out side surface. That dot is the lite location on the tire. It
is to be placed adjacent to the valve stem, the heavier spot on the
wheel. ;~)



I have not used a fly cutter at all. But concerning that if you upped
the rpm on the fly cutter the vibration would be more noticeable.

But virtually all vibration disappeared when I replaced the two factory
belts with the link belts. And I might add that the vibration was not
much noticeable on the lower half of the speed range with the factory belts.

AND the link belts are intended to be used in a single direction so
I'm mot sure how that works on lathes with a reverse feature.

[Leon]

On 12/10/2016 10:46 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/9/2016 8:10 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 09:26:49 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> This is news to me. Generally "industrial" means high quality,
>>> expensive, long lasting.
>>
>> No, in general "industrial" is lower on the totem pole than
>> "automotive", with the latter being somewhat less than "military".
>> Automotive specs are, in general, much more rigorous than industrial.
>
> That's news to me. To me, industrial describes something designed to
> last a long time in continuous duty, IE; high strength, superior build
> lots more money. The term is used often in advertising such as
> "industrial strength" cleaner, so it means that to more than just me,
> probably about everyone or the ad men would be using "automotive
> strength" cleaner instead.

Misleading for sure. In most cases industrial is a relatively top
notch rating. My SS CS is the industrial version and readily apparent
when compared to the other SS TS's.

Another good example of misleading markings, and my pet peeve. Water
proof glue ratings. TiteBond III has always been sold with a water
proof rating. If you look up the water proof rating definition the word
water proof is only in the title. The detailed explanation of the water
proof rating only uses water resistant.

And to really drive home a point, when TBIII was first introduced a
magazine did a pretty extensive test on about 10 different wood glues.
The results revealed that Water Resistant TB2 was more water proof than
TBIII. IIRC today TB2 is now called water proof.

>
> Automotive strength is a term I never heard uttered. Probably because
> most people think auto's are designed to fail routinely, specifically
> shortly after the 3 year warranty expires, you can expect frequent
> failures until replacement.

I'm not sure I have heard of automotive strength either, more so
automotive quality and in particular regarding belts and adhesives.
Adhesives, in particular windshield adhesives, have to meet a specific
strength rating.

>
> Military strength is synonymous with industrial strength, but cost 10
> times more than industrial strength, and 20-200 times more than
> non-industrial strength.
>

LOL, I think Military rated or strength is probably pretty high but
probably more of an indicator that the buyer, the government, is not
concerned with what it is going to spend.
Remember those military grade toilet seats? ;~)

[Leon]

On 12/10/2016 11:00 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/9/2016 8:14 PM, krw wrote:
>>
>> I think it has something to do with the missing punctuation and shift
>> keys on his computer.
>
> You fools have been "wasting" words on EC about missing punctuation and
> shift keys since the day he walked on the set. To my knowledge, and his
> credit, he has never once responded.
>
> How stupid are yins?
>

EC has certainly held his own. ;~) I don't see his posts anymore
unless some one responds to him.

[DerbyDad03]

On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 12:01:10 PM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> On 12/9/2016 8:14 PM, krw wrote:
> >
> > I think it has something to do with the missing punctuation and shift
> > keys on his computer.
>
> You fools have been "wasting" words on EC about missing punctuation and
> shift keys since the day he walked on the set. To my knowledge, and his
> credit, he has never once responded.
>
> How stupid are yins?
>

That's the attitude I like to see: Give up!

I'm sure glad I never gave up on my four (now well rounded adult) kids or any of the hundreds
of kids that I've worked with via numerous volunteer activities over the years. You think they
aren't listening, you think they will never change, you almost think it's not worth the effort. Then
suddenly you look around and you see them becoming the person you knew they could be. Not
all of them, but since none of them carry signs saying "I'll never get it" you can't give up on
any of them.

I'm willing to waste a million words on the hope that just a few of those words get through.

[krw]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2016 11:46:58 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 12/9/2016 8:10 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 09:26:49 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> This is news to me. Generally "industrial" means high quality,
>>> expensive, long lasting.
>>
>> No, in general "industrial" is lower on the totem pole than
>> "automotive", with the latter being somewhat less than "military".
>> Automotive specs are, in general, much more rigorous than industrial.
>
>That's news to me. To me, industrial describes something designed to
>last a long time in continuous duty, IE; high strength, superior build
>lots more money. The term is used often in advertising such as
>"industrial strength" cleaner, so it means that to more than just me,
>probably about everyone or the ad men would be using "automotive
>strength" cleaner instead.

Automotive is "continuous duty" and in a really harsh environment.
Industrial environments are downright benign, by comparison.

>Automotive strength is a term I never heard uttered. Probably because
>most people think auto's are designed to fail routinely, specifically
>shortly after the 3 year warranty expires, you can expect frequent
>failures until replacement.

Utter nonsense.

>
>Military strength is synonymous with industrial strength, but cost 10
>times more than industrial strength, and 20-200 times more than
>non-industrial strength.

Nope. The automotive environment is really nasty.

[krw]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2016 14:02:53 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/10/2016 10:46 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 12/9/2016 8:10 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 09:26:49 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> This is news to me. Generally "industrial" means high quality,
>>>> expensive, long lasting.
>>>
>>> No, in general "industrial" is lower on the totem pole than
>>> "automotive", with the latter being somewhat less than "military".
>>> Automotive specs are, in general, much more rigorous than industrial.
>>
>> That's news to me. To me, industrial describes something designed to
>> last a long time in continuous duty, IE; high strength, superior build
>> lots more money. The term is used often in advertising such as
>> "industrial strength" cleaner, so it means that to more than just me,
>> probably about everyone or the ad men would be using "automotive
>> strength" cleaner instead.
>
>Misleading for sure. In most cases industrial is a relatively top
>notch rating. My SS CS is the industrial version and readily apparent
>when compared to the other SS TS's.

Do they make an automotive grade Saw Stop? ;-)

>Another good example of misleading markings, and my pet peeve. Water
>proof glue ratings. TiteBond III has always been sold with a water
>proof rating. If you look up the water proof rating definition the word
>water proof is only in the title. The detailed explanation of the water
>proof rating only uses water resistant.

I don't know who they're fooling. Do the great unwashed buy TiteBond?

>
>And to really drive home a point, when TBIII was first introduced a
>magazine did a pretty extensive test on about 10 different wood glues.
>The results revealed that Water Resistant TB2 was more water proof than
>TBIII. IIRC today TB2 is now called water proof.

I prefer TB2, anyway.

>>
>> Automotive strength is a term I never heard uttered. Probably because
>> most people think auto's are designed to fail routinely, specifically
>> shortly after the 3 year warranty expires, you can expect frequent
>> failures until replacement.
>
>I'm not sure I have heard of automotive strength either, more so
>automotive quality and in particular regarding belts and adhesives.
>Adhesives, in particular windshield adhesives, have to meet a specific
>strength rating.

"Automotive strength", no, but certainly "automotive rated" or
"automotive qualified".

>>
>> Military strength is synonymous with industrial strength, but cost 10
>> times more than industrial strength, and 20-200 times more than
>> non-industrial strength.
>>
>
>LOL, I think Military rated or strength is probably pretty high but
>probably more of an indicator that the buyer, the government, is not
>concerned with what it is going to spend.
>Remember those military grade toilet seats? ;~)

There are strict environmental, test, and tracability requirements for
both "automotive" and "military" rated products. That costs.

BTW, the infamous "hammer" and "toilet seat" were a product of federal
government spending rules. ...or more precisely, an attempt to get
around them, to get something done.

[krw]

Sure, when the world is a nail...

>
>Can't Touch This!
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

Can't watch that.

[krw]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:00:57 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 12/9/2016 8:14 PM, krw wrote:
>>
>> I think it has something to do with the missing punctuation and shift
>> keys on his computer.
>
>You fools have been "wasting" words on EC about missing punctuation and
>shift keys since the day he walked on the set. To my knowledge, and his
>credit, he has never once responded.

Incapable.

>How stupid are yins?

It's not a competition. You've won, hands down.

[Martin Eastburn]

The link belt is used as a power belt on Conveyor systems.
Martin

[Jack]

I would as well. I don't have any after shots, as I don't own any link
belts, and I'm not running out to get one to see if it impacts the
finish that I have never had a problem with.

> I do know a link belt improved my bandsaw. It was worth the trip to HF.

Do you have any before and after shots? I'd love to see the difference.
BS are not known for smooth finishes at any rate.

> Hm... You know I might have that red one around somewhere and not on a
> tool. If I get bored waiting for the ice to freeze (unlikely, I've got
> two Christmas gifts to finish that take priority), I might swap the belt
> on my jointer. It's got recently sharpened and set knives, so it should
> be a decent test bed.

I doubt it would effect the finish at all. Put a nickle on edge with a
regular belt, and then with the link belt, that might detect some
difference.

> Oh, btw, speaking of sharpening jointer knives... If you do it on a power
> grinder wear your dust mask! I didn't and am getting over a sinus/cold
> thing triggered by it.

I have a power grinder and never wear a mask when grinding steel. I
don't get many colds. Have no clue what triggered the few I've had.
Maybe you're allergic to the stuff of which your wheel is made.

[Jack]

On 12/10/2016 2:49 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/10/2016 10:03 AM, Jack wrote:

>> Good point. On the other hand, I'm thinking about how a grossly out of
>> balance fly cutter on my drill press does not make my DP vibrate
>> severely. Also thinking about off centered turnings on my lathe. It
>> takes a whole lot to get it vibrating severely or at all, far more than
>> a lowly v-belt could possibly deliver. I'm thinking a wheel on a car is
>> attached to springs that allow movement, unlike a stationary tool that
>> is designed not to move so much. At any rate a fly cutter is grossly out
>> of balance vs a v-belt, or a 1 oz tire weight. Does your drill press
>> severely vibrate with a fly cutter?

> The farther the heavier spot is from the center of rotation the more the
> vibration will be amplified.

> I have not used a fly cutter at all. But concerning that if you upped
> the rpm on the fly cutter the vibration would be more noticeable.

Absolutely.

> But virtually all vibration disappeared when I replaced the two factory
> belts with the link belts. And I might add that the vibration was not
> much noticeable on the lower half of the speed range with the factory
> belts.

Maybe that's it, I run my drill press at medium speed 99% of the time. I
slow it down only for the fly cutter as it seems unsafe at higher speeds
and I think I could set wood on fire at high speeds. Fly cutters turn my
safest tool into the most dangerous, imo.

I'm not sure I would trust my self with a variable speed at the touch of
a button DP like the NOVA. Yes, I once started my DP with the key in
the chuck... I also started my lathe with the key in the chuck, I think
I did that 2x, which is incredibly stupid. The lathe I attributed to old
age stupidness. The drill press I was young and in a hurry.

> AND the link belts are intended to be used in a single direction so
> I'm mot sure how that works on lathes with a reverse feature.

Good to know. The only belted tool I have that goes in reverse is my
shaper. If any tool vibrates it would be that one as it turns at high
speed. My lathe doesn't vibrate enough to notice even when turning an
off centered piece. The belt on my lathe is loose as well, so it will
slip if I jam something up. Not sure what impact a linked belt would
have on that?

I've done the nickle test on my table saw once because people here (you)
mentioned it, and it passed, which I thought it would. I think all my
tools would pass once up to speed. Start up I'd expect would drop the
nickle on most of my tools, but that's not a belt vibration issue.

[Leon]

I am certain the lower speeds hide a lot of potential for vibration. If
nothing else fly cutters have an added element of danger because of the
asymmetrical shape, easy to get your fingers in the way.

>
> I'm not sure I would trust my self with a variable speed at the touch of
> a button DP like the NOVA.

Well that would certainly be something to consider but like most new
tools/equipment there is a "getting to know you" period. You probably
would only make that mistake one time. ;~)

Yes, I once started my DP with the key in
> the chuck... I also started my lathe with the key in the chuck, I think
> I did that 2x, which is incredibly stupid. The lathe I attributed to old
> age stupidness. The drill press I was young and in a hurry.

Well I don't think stupid or old for either, just a normal human. We
don't learn everything by reading the cautionary lables, sometimes
experience from the school of hard knocks is a frequent teacher. The
safety check list is just too long to put into print. Now if you
continue to make the mistake, that would be a different matter. LOL

>
>> AND the link belts are intended to be used in a single direction so
>> I'm mot sure how that works on lathes with a reverse feature.
>
> Good to know. The only belted tool I have that goes in reverse is my
> shaper. If any tool vibrates it would be that one as it turns at high
> speed. My lathe doesn't vibrate enough to notice even when turning an
> off centered piece. The belt on my lathe is loose as well, so it will
> slip if I jam something up. Not sure what impact a linked belt would
> have on that?

I certainly would not switch belts for the sake of doing so, only to
eliminate a vibration introduced by a belt.

>
> I've done the nickle test on my table saw once because people here (you)
> mentioned it, and it passed, which I thought it would. I think all my
> tools would pass once up to speed. Start up I'd expect would drop the
> nickle on most of my tools, but that's not a belt vibration issue.
>

I was tickled, for the entertainment value, of doing the "quarter" test
on my TS. It passed during start up too. IIRC it took me longer to
balance the quarter than to conduct the test. LOL and 700lbs of mass
does not hurt. FWIW my saw has two automotive style serpentine belts, a
belt for the motor to a middle double pulley and another from that
pulley to the arbor pulley. I'm certain that the two vs. a single long
belt help to keep the vibration down.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8687517178/in/dateposted-public/

[Jack]

On 12/10/2016 3:02 PM, Leon wrote:

> Another good example of misleading markings, and my pet peeve. Water
> proof glue ratings. TiteBond III has always been sold with a water
> proof rating. If you look up the water proof rating definition the word
> water proof is only in the title. The detailed explanation of the water
> proof rating only uses water resistant.

> And to really drive home a point, when TBIII was first introduced a
> magazine did a pretty extensive test on about 10 different wood glues.
> The results revealed that Water Resistant TB2 was more water proof than
> TBIII. IIRC today TB2 is now called water proof.

At the risk of wasting too many words for those on a word limit, I built
a compost bin outside a few years ago. Across the front I have 2x4's
hinged on one end, and glued in pegs on the other end. I used Titebond
III to glue in the pegs. I coated the top of the pegs with the glue
just to see what would happen, and keep water out of the peg holes.
Well, after about 3 years, the glue holding the pegs in came loose, the
coating on top also came loose, but did not dissolve. I gave the glue a
fail on that one. Fortunately, the pegs really didn't need the glue,
they are a tight fit.

> I'm not sure I have heard of automotive strength either, more so
> automotive quality and in particular regarding belts and adhesives.
> Adhesives, in particular windshield adhesives, have to meet a specific
> strength rating.

I understand what you meant. It was Kevin who wasted words and time
stating, and I quote:
************

"No, in general "industrial" is lower on the totem pole than
"automotive", with the latter being somewhat less than "military".
Automotive specs are, in general, much more rigorous than industrial."

************
This is just wrong, so I wasted words explaining it to him. Not to worry
however, I'm not close to running out of words. As far as you stating
automotive belts are higher quality than industrial, I find that
unusual, not necessarily wrong.

When I bought the belt for my jointer 10 years ago, I vaguely recall the
guy asking what I was using it for, and I'm pretty sure he had two
belts, one for cars, one for machinery. It was too long ago for me to
remember what he said, or what I bought. I could have used another
"link" as I got the belt a bit tight for my likes, which imo is a good
reason to buy a linked belt. I don't think the parts store sold them.

>> Military strength is synonymous with industrial strength, but cost 10
>> times more than industrial strength, and 20-200 times more than
>> non-industrial strength.

> LOL, I think Military rated or strength is probably pretty high but
> probably more of an indicator that the buyer, the government, is not
> concerned with what it is going to spend.
> Remember those military grade toilet seats? ;~)

Vaguely. Also the $20,000 hammers. The hammers I think were due to
balancing the books. Business worries about balancing books as money
has real meaning to them (not to mention the IRS). The military could
care less, so to balance the books, which are off by a few measly
millions, they just change the hammer expense to $20,000 each to get
things in line. Poof, books are balanced.

[Jack]

I don't think he's all that bad. He seems to know little, but starts a
ton of discussions. Other than those worried about running out of
words, someone needs to start discussions, or we'd be looking at blank
screens. I don't give a rats ass about his punctuation. If nothing
else, it gives those with too many words left something to bitch about.

I keep waiting for them to run out of words, but they seem to have a
deep reserve for bitching about his abuse of the kings english. EC
completely ignores them, something both hard to do, yet very enjoyable
to me as it must really piss them off. I'm not a fan of the spell cops.

As far as "Bozo bins" I don't believe in censorship much, and imo,
generally Bozo's have Bozo bins. I have no need to force myself to not
read a post.

[Jack]

I have to assume you are wasting all these words tongue in cheek?

Do you really think those jumping on EC for incorrect punctuation and
capitalization are trying to teach him anything? He'd be in the "Kings
English" newsgroup if he were interested, and would waste a few words
replying to the nonsense, but he doesn't. No, the bitching is from
frustrated grade school english teachers, or wannabe's, looking for
something non-wood related to bitch about.

My guess is EC has a hair up his ass for some old grade school english
schoolmarm, and is loving every minute of it.

--
Jack
One hard decision in life is choosing to walk away or try harder.
http://jbstein.com

[dadiOH]

"Jack" <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o2jo42$d0h$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 12/10/2016 11:55 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

>> I do know a link belt improved my bandsaw. It was worth the trip to HF.
>
> Do you have any before and after shots? I'd love to see the difference.
> BS are not known for smooth finishes at any rate.

If the whole machine is vibrating the blade is moving with it. Link belts
don't change the quality of the cut, that depends upon the blade and -
possibly - movement unique to the blade (wheels, tires, guides). What link
belts do is cut down vibration due to power transmission.

[krw]

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 11:17:28 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 12/10/2016 3:02 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Another good example of misleading markings, and my pet peeve. Water
>> proof glue ratings. TiteBond III has always been sold with a water
>> proof rating. If you look up the water proof rating definition the word
>> water proof is only in the title. The detailed explanation of the water
>> proof rating only uses water resistant.
>
>> And to really drive home a point, when TBIII was first introduced a
>> magazine did a pretty extensive test on about 10 different wood glues.
>> The results revealed that Water Resistant TB2 was more water proof than
>> TBIII. IIRC today TB2 is now called water proof.
>
>
>At the risk of wasting

Too many words.

[krw]

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 12:04:03 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 12/10/2016 4:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 12:01:10 PM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>>> On 12/9/2016 8:14 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think it has something to do with the missing punctuation and shift
>>>> keys on his computer.
>>>
>>> You fools have been "wasting" words on EC about missing punctuation and
>>> shift keys since the day he walked on the set. To my knowledge, and his
>>> credit, he has never once responded.
>>>
>>> How stupid are yins?
>>>
>>
>> That's the attitude I like to see: Give up!
>>
>> I'm sure glad I never gave up on my four (now well rounded adult) kids or any of the hundreds
>> of kids that I've worked with via numerous volunteer activities over the years. You think they
>> aren't listening, you think they will never change, you almost think it's not worth the effort. Then
>> suddenly you look around and you see them becoming the person you knew they could be. Not
>> all of them, but since none of them carry signs saying "I'll never get it" you can't give up on
>> any of them.
>>
>> I'm willing to waste a million words on the hope that just a few of those words get through.
>
>I have to assume you are wasting all these words tongue in cheek?
>
>Do you really think those jumping on EC for incorrect punctuation and
>capitalization are trying to teach him anything?

Yes. He's obviously too thick, though.

> He'd be in the "Kings
>English" newsgroup if he were interested, and would waste a few words
>replying to the nonsense, but he doesn't. No, the bitching is from
>frustrated grade school english teachers, or wannabe's, looking for
>something non-wood related to bitch about.

It's not about the "Kings English". People don't generally bitch
about grammar or punctuation (errors). Capitalization and punctuation
are all about making it easier for your reader. It's really about
respect for your reader.

>My guess is EC has a hair up his ass for some old grade school english
>schoolmarm, and is loving every minute of it.

No just a typical millennial - self-centered pampered brat.

[DerbyDad03]

2 assumptions and a guess.

More wasted words.

[J. Clarke]

In article <jPGdnXcegY3lwtHFnZ2dnUU7-
SfN...@giganews.com>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

When the military pays a ludicrous price for
some commonplace object it's generally due to
some kind of small/minority business set aside,
so instead of calling up Kohler or whoever and
saying "send us a truckload of toilet seats"
they instead have to bring some company that has
never seen a toilet seat or a military contract
before up to speed in order to meet a social
objective imposed by the politicians.

But of course the politicians never take the
heat for it.

[Jack]

On 12/11/2016 6:48 PM, krw wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 12:04:03 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> I have to assume you are wasting all these words tongue in cheek?
>>
>> Do you really think those jumping on EC for incorrect punctuation and
>> capitalization are trying to teach him anything?
>
> Yes. He's obviously too thick, though.

Not nearly as thick as those bitching about it for months on end...

>> He'd be in the "Kings
>> English" newsgroup if he were interested, and would waste a few words
>> replying to the nonsense, but he doesn't. No, the bitching is from
>> frustrated grade school english teachers, or wannabe's, looking for
>> something non-wood related to bitch about.
>
> It's not about the "Kings English". People don't generally bitch
> about grammar or punctuation (errors). Capitalization and punctuation
> are all about making it easier for your reader. It's really about
> respect for your reader.

I have no problem reading his posts w/o punctuation. I can see how one
with severe reading comprehension issues might stumble, but a normal
reader can easily read far worse stuff than his. If anyone needs to
respect the reader, it's those bitching about something that "obviously"
is not going to change, particularly those also worrying about "wasting
words".

You're right that people don't generally bitch about this stuff, because
it is always more annoying than the offense. It's exactly why the spell
cops are disliked so much.

>> My guess is EC has a hair up his ass for some old grade school english
>> schoolmarm, and is loving every minute of it.

> No just a typical millennial - self-centered pampered brat.

Perhaps, or, perhaps he simply enjoys antagonizing the priggish
schoolmarms running around bothering everyone with their silly words
wasted on getting him to conform to the kings english.

[Jack]

Hard not to make assumptions when responding to one guessing and making
assumptions. Not to worry though, I'm not close to running out of words.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/11/2016 10:56 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

>>
>> LOL, I think Military rated or strength is probably pretty high but
>> probably more of an indicator that the buyer, the government, is not
>> concerned with what it is going to spend.
>> Remember those military grade toilet seats? ;~)
>
> When the military pays a ludicrous price for
> some commonplace object it's generally due to
> some kind of small/minority business set aside,
> so instead of calling up Kohler or whoever and
> saying "send us a truckload of toilet seats"
> they instead have to bring some company that has
> never seen a toilet seat or a military contract
> before up to speed in order to meet a social
> objective imposed by the politicians.
>
> But of course the politicians never take the
> heat for it.
>
>

Some of those cost are back door legit.

Project director: I'm approved for $200,000 for this project as bid but
I need you to do more but cannot get approval. We do need spare part
that would go on another budget.

Contractor: Sure, I'll gladly do that extra work at no extra charge.
BTW, do you need spare lightbulbs? They are $500 each.

[Leon]

BUT if a machine vibrates it is highly likely the blade will vibrate at
a different rate/amount. The blade is spinning and because blades flex
there would not be a direct absolute movement in concert with the rest
of the machine.


On a planer or joiner or DP maybe no problem. But certainly on a TS or BS.

[krw]

That's exactly what happened with the famous hammer and the toilet
seat. Not strictly legal but it would have cost even more to do it
"legitimately".

[krw]

On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 10:41:56 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 12/11/2016 6:48 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 12:04:03 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> I have to assume you are wasting all these words tongue in cheek?
>>>
>>> Do you really think those jumping on EC for incorrect punctuation and
>>> capitalization are trying to teach him anything?
>>
>> Yes. He's obviously too thick, though.
>
>Not nearly as thick as those bitching about it for months on end...

Apparently some are even thicker than either.

>
>>> He'd be in the "Kings
>>> English" newsgroup if he were interested, and would waste a few words
>>> replying to the nonsense, but he doesn't. No, the bitching is from
>>> frustrated grade school english teachers, or wannabe's, looking for
>>> something non-wood related to bitch about.
>>
>> It's not about the "Kings English". People don't generally bitch
>> about grammar or punctuation (errors). Capitalization and punctuation
>> are all about making it easier for your reader. It's really about
>> respect for your reader.
>
>I have no problem reading his posts w/o punctuation. I can see how one
>with severe reading comprehension issues might stumble, but a normal
>reader can easily read far worse stuff than his. If anyone needs to
>respect the reader, it's those bitching about something that "obviously"
>is not going to change, particularly those also worrying about "wasting
>words".

Aren't you just special!

>You're right that people don't generally bitch about this stuff, because
>it is always more annoying than the offense. It's exactly why the spell
>cops are disliked so much.

Punctuation and capitalization is far worse than a little tupo.

>
>>> My guess is EC has a hair up his ass for some old grade school english
>>> schoolmarm, and is loving every minute of it.
>
>> No just a typical millennial - self-centered pampered brat.
>
>Perhaps, or, perhaps he simply enjoys antagonizing the priggish
>schoolmarms running around bothering everyone with their silly words
>wasted on getting him to conform to the kings english.

No, just a self-centered asshole. You should know the type well.

[DerbyDad03]

:-)