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OT: More Electrical Theory. :-D

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-MIKE-

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Jan 17, 2017, 1:36:32 AM1/17/17
to
So I wake up Sunday morning to a house full of light fixtures that are
dim or flickering, fans not starting up, stove and microwave both just
humming and displays blinking on and off. Seems like half the rooms and
outlets are fine and the other half are acting possessed by the evil
spirits. :-)

I start checking outlets and am getting weird readings. Some are
80volts, some are 108, 112, 122, some are 80 one minute, and 112 the
next. So I open up the breaker box and start taking measurements. Same
thing in the box, but seems to be limited to one pole. I bridge the
main shut-off poles and get really strange reading like 10 volts, when
it should be 220.

Next, I go out to check the meter and there's no display (digital).
Ok, time to call the power company.

They come out and start checking everything. A couple hours later and
some digging in the front yard....
Turns out a tree root had grown around one of the hot legs and choked it
out until it shorted to the root and grounded itself out. I have the
root, it's all burnt up where it was around the electric line.

I'm kind of relieved because I had been having all sorts of weird
electrical issues the past several months and this explains ALL of it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

DerbyDad03

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Jan 17, 2017, 6:47:10 AM1/17/17
to
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 1:36:32 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> So I wake up Sunday morning to a house full of light fixtures that are
> dim or flickering, fans not starting up, stove and microwave both just
> humming and displays blinking on and off. Seems like half the rooms and
> outlets are fine and the other half are acting possessed by the evil
> spirits. :-)
>
> I start checking outlets and am getting weird readings. Some are
> 80volts, some are 108, 112, 122, some are 80 one minute, and 112 the
> next. So I open up the breaker box and start taking measurements. Same
> thing in the box, but seems to be limited to one pole. I bridge the
> main shut-off poles and get really strange reading like 10 volts, when
> it should be 220.
>
> Next, I go out to check the meter and there's no display (digital).
> Ok, time to call the power company.
>
> They come out and start checking everything. A couple hours later and
> some digging in the front yard....
> Turns out a tree root had grown around one of the hot legs and choked it
> out until it shorted to the root and grounded itself out. I have the
> root, it's all burnt up where it was around the electric line.
>
> I'm kind of relieved because I had been having all sorts of weird
> electrical issues the past several months and this explains ALL of it.
>
>

It's good to hear that some long term issues have been resolved.

I'm curious about the digging. Did they poke-and-hope until they found the spot
where the issue was or were they able to detect it from above ground?

Spalted Walt

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Jan 17, 2017, 7:25:46 AM1/17/17
to
-MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote:

> So I wake up Sunday morning to a house full of light fixtures that are
> dim or flickering, fans not starting up, stove and microwave both just
> humming and displays blinking on and off. Seems like half the rooms and
> outlets are fine and the other half are acting possessed by the evil
> spirits. :-)
>
> I start checking outlets and am getting weird readings. Some are
> 80volts, some are 108, 112, 122, some are 80 one minute, and 112 the
> next. So I open up the breaker box and start taking measurements. Same
> thing in the box, but seems to be limited to one pole. I bridge the
> main shut-off poles and get really strange reading like 10 volts, when
> it should be 220.
>
> Next, I go out to check the meter and there's no display (digital).
> Ok, time to call the power company.
>
> They come out and start checking everything. A couple hours later and
> some digging in the front yard....
> Turns out a tree root had grown around one of the hot legs and choked it
> out until it shorted to the root and grounded itself out. I have the
> root, it's all burnt up where it was around the electric line.
>
> I'm kind of relieved because I had been having all sorts of weird
> electrical issues the past several months and this explains ALL of it.

Damn! Was the buried service cable(s) ran within any sort of conduit
(PVC/metallic) or just heavily insulated (romex?)

Hope you didn't lose or permanently damage any home electronics or
appliances.

hub...@ccanoemail.ca

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Jan 17, 2017, 8:32:43 AM1/17/17
to
Yeah - that is my first question also .. ?
The conductor meant for direct-bury has a hefty sheath <?>
.. if not - it's in a conduit ..
John T.


Leon

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Jan 17, 2017, 10:10:19 AM1/17/17
to
On 1/17/2017 12:36 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> So I wake up Sunday morning to a house full of light fixtures that are
> dim or flickering, fans not starting up, stove and microwave both just
> humming and displays blinking on and off. Seems like half the rooms and
> outlets are fine and the other half are acting possessed by the evil
> spirits. :-)
>
> I start checking outlets and am getting weird readings. Some are
> 80volts, some are 108, 112, 122, some are 80 one minute, and 112 the
> next. So I open up the breaker box and start taking measurements. Same
> thing in the box, but seems to be limited to one pole. I bridge the
> main shut-off poles and get really strange reading like 10 volts, when
> it should be 220.
>
> Next, I go out to check the meter and there's no display (digital).
> Ok, time to call the power company.
>
> They come out and start checking everything. A couple hours later and
> some digging in the front yard....
> Turns out a tree root had grown around one of the hot legs and choked it
> out until it shorted to the root and grounded itself out. I have the
> root, it's all burnt up where it was around the electric line.
>
> I'm kind of relieved because I had been having all sorts of weird
> electrical issues the past several months and this explains ALL of it.
>
>


I had that happen about 7 years ago. My 240volt table saw did not start
suddenly and half the lights in my house did not work.

I had to pay a fortune to replace the underground cable from the main
box to my house. Hope you don't have to pay for the repair.

Brewster

unread,
Jan 17, 2017, 10:42:10 AM1/17/17
to
On 1/16/17 11:36 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> So I wake up Sunday morning to a house full of light fixtures that are
> dim or flickering, fans not starting up, stove and microwave both just
> humming and displays blinking on and off. Seems like half the rooms and
> outlets are fine and the other half are acting possessed by the evil
> spirits. :-)
>
> I start checking outlets and am getting weird readings. Some are
> 80volts, some are 108, 112, 122, some are 80 one minute, and 112 the
> next. So I open up the breaker box and start taking measurements. Same
> thing in the box, but seems to be limited to one pole. I bridge the
> main shut-off poles and get really strange reading like 10 volts, when
> it should be 220.
>
> Next, I go out to check the meter and there's no display (digital).
> Ok, time to call the power company.
>
> They come out and start checking everything. A couple hours later and
> some digging in the front yard....
> Turns out a tree root had grown around one of the hot legs and choked it
> out until it shorted to the root and grounded itself out. I have the
> root, it's all burnt up where it was around the electric line.
>
> I'm kind of relieved because I had been having all sorts of weird
> electrical issues the past several months and this explains ALL of it.
>
>
I had a similar issue with a poor neutral connection at the pole
transformer. Saw 180V at some outlets and 40V or so at others, changing
rapidly over time. Toasted many appliances like the fridge.

Power company came out, pulled the meter and measured 120-120 across
both legs, said there end was fine and charged a $50 bogus service call
fee. I tried to explain that his measurement was with no load on the
circuits but since he swore he was an expert....

About an hour later he comes back (saying he had been thinking about
it), pulled a new cable set from the meter to the pole and all was 100%
(he even apologized!)

The electric co. refused to deal with the damaged appliances, but at
least dropped the $50 fee.

-BR

Leon

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Jan 17, 2017, 11:01:09 AM1/17/17
to
Lucky the lone was above ground. Our provider in the SE Texas area does
not replace underground cable from the box to your meter. The home
owner pays for that.


cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Jan 17, 2017, 12:33:11 PM1/17/17
to
Sounds like he was lucky and it was L1 or L2, not the neutral that
failed.

-MIKE-

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Jan 17, 2017, 1:12:04 PM1/17/17
to
Yeah, they used one of those radio wands and then some sort of probes to
find out where the "current leak" was. pretty cool stuff, actually.

-MIKE-

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Jan 17, 2017, 1:14:09 PM1/17/17
to
No conduit, which surprised me. Just separate aluminum cables wrapped
in thick, black, insulation. Call before you dig!! :-)


> Hope you didn't lose or permanently damage any home electronics or
> appliances.
>

Nothing yet. I was more worried about the 220 stuff like the oven.

-MIKE-

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Jan 17, 2017, 1:15:57 PM1/17/17
to
Nope. Around here, everything to the meter is their responsibility.
If I get a bill, I'll let you know. :-)

-MIKE-

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Jan 17, 2017, 1:18:02 PM1/17/17
to
Correct.

Scott Lurndal

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Jan 17, 2017, 1:23:57 PM1/17/17
to
Same mechanism used to detect broken cat5 cables; put a RF signal on the
wire and measure the time it takes to reflect from the cut point. A bit
of math, and one knows exactly where the break is.

PG&E used that to find the break in one of the legs under the sidewalk
across the street.

Martin Eastburn

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Jan 17, 2017, 11:57:38 PM1/17/17
to
I have HV DC and HV AC in the ground from the local pole.

I don't know how the house was done some 40+ years ago but my addition
is in plastic pipe (gray) with a wire tape on it with a layer of Tar
like paper over that, then sand and then dirt. Power company.

The HV DC is in plastic pipe and runs to the wall.

I am pleased with the install of both in the past few years.

Martin

Scott Lurndal

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Jan 18, 2017, 8:54:49 AM1/18/17
to
Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> writes:
>
>On 1/17/2017 12:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/17/17 6:25 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:

>>> Damn! Was the buried service cable(s) ran within any sort of conduit
>>> (PVC/metallic) or just heavily insulated (romex?)
>>>
>>
>> No conduit, which surprised me. Just separate aluminum cables wrapped
>> in thick, black, insulation. Call before you dig!! :-)
>>
>>
>>> Hope you didn't lose or permanently damage any home electronics or
>>> appliances.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing yet. I was more worried about the 220 stuff like the oven.
>>
>>

[Top Posting Fixed]

>I have HV DC and HV AC in the ground from the local pole.

HV DC? Really. Tell us more!

Brewster

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Jan 18, 2017, 11:11:53 AM1/18/17
to
On 1/17/17 11:15 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/17/17 9:10 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/17/2017 12:36 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

snip

>>
>> I had that happen about 7 years ago. My 240volt table saw did not start
>> suddenly and half the lights in my house did not work.
>>
>> I had to pay a fortune to replace the underground cable from the main
>> box to my house. Hope you don't have to pay for the repair.
>
> Nope. Around here, everything to the meter is their responsibility.
> If I get a bill, I'll let you know. :-)
>
>

Same around here, up to the meter is the Electric co. responsibility.

I have underground service from a "box" transformer about 100 yards
away. One day our power went out with a big, loud bang. Some guy with a
backhoe had severed the feeder to the transformer (14400V according to
the electric co.).

We were talking about how much the poor sap would have to pay for the
damage, probably in excess of $10k. When the electrician returned to
check on my house, he said the guy had called the "call before you dig"
people and they had missed the feeder in their survey. Good thing the
guy was uninjured, but I'm sure that mistake will be taken out on the
customers over time.

-BR

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Jan 18, 2017, 9:46:41 PM1/18/17
to
It will have been paid by G-Tel (or whichever locate company did the
job)'s errors and omissions or general liability insurance - so
EVERYBODY will end up chipping in a few cents to cover it.

Martin Eastburn

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Jan 19, 2017, 12:17:54 AM1/19/17
to
HV DC is from my Solar Array. I generate two 'legs' of DC - for a 6kw
inverter tha makes synchronized 60 cycle 240v. Higher voltage when
there is plenty. This makes the meter to count backwards.

The AC goes to the Greenhouse 220 - 40amp
(heater blower if we have to).

And from the panel a long line from the power pole to the addition
(220/230)
to the power pack that the Array back-feeds the addition Power Pack buss.

Martin

Dave in SoTex

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Jan 26, 2017, 8:53:24 AM1/26/17
to

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:Dq6dnQqGlLlJruPF...@giganews.com...
Yep, if it goes underground at the pole you own it all the way to the
house.

Dave in SoTex

Dave in SoTex

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Jan 26, 2017, 8:56:37 AM1/26/17
to

"Dave in SoTex" <DJ...@att.net> wrote in message
news:lbniA.20999$oS1....@fx16.iad...
At least that's what Centerpoint told me several years ago living in
Jersey Village when I inquired about my low-hanging three-phase.

> Dave in SoTex



Leon

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Jan 26, 2017, 2:27:26 PM1/26/17
to
Apparently this is not the rule. ;~(
I have a rider on my insurance policy that covers this and external
sewer lines for $75 per year with a $500 deductible.




-MIKE-

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Jan 26, 2017, 5:51:15 PM1/26/17
to
As with most things, it varies depending on local laws and utility
contracts.

Around here, be it water, gas, or electric, it's the utility's
responsibility up to the meter and homeowner's responsibility after the
meter.
The water company company seems to be the only one with forethought in
this matter. They put the water meter about 20ft. from the street,
leaving me to deal with the remaining 80ft. :-) Electric meter is
on the house. Gas meter is a foot from the house.
In fact, the gas company already replaced a section of underground gas
pipe that was leaking. They wanted to replace it all, but I would let
them since their ditch-witch would've cut through some big roots of
trees in our yard. Those darn trees. :-)

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Jan 26, 2017, 5:58:10 PM1/26/17
to
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 07:56:35 -0600, "Dave in SoTex" <DJ...@att.net>
wrote:
What if ther are no poles? The transformers are in underground vaults.

k...@notreal.com

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Jan 26, 2017, 9:11:36 PM1/26/17
to
Ours are curbside.

Leon

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Jan 26, 2017, 11:01:41 PM1/26/17
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We have a 3'x3'x2' steel box in the back corner of our yard, above
ground for servicing, it services 4 homes.




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