TS keeps popping circuit

[Gramps' shop]

I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.

[FrozenNorth]

On 2017-01-03 5:41 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.
>

Depends on the wire gauge from the panel, if it is 14 forget about it.

--
Froz....

[Gramps' shop]

It is 12 gauge.

[-MIKE-]

On 1/3/17 4:41 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.
>

As others have pointed out, it depends on the gauge of the wire.
#12 wire will handle 20amps, but you need to make sure it's #12 all the
way to the breaker.

With one 15amp breaker for your whole shop, I would be hesitant to put a
20amp breaker in and then run the saw plus a dust collector at the same
time.

Sounds like a good excuse to run another circuit out there. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[FrozenNorth]

You should be good then, 10 might be better, depending on many factors I
cannot see from here.

--
Froz....

[Gramps' shop]

Hey, Froz

Come on over and take a look. Just as cold here in Wisconsin 😀

[FrozenNorth]

On 2017-01-03 6:31 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> Hey, Froz
>
> Come on over and take a look. Just as cold here in Wisconsin 😀
>

No passport, I cannot get into the US legally, and it would be a bitch
of a drive. :-)


--
Froz....

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 2:41:23 PM UTC-8, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.

Maple has sticky sap, and it doesn't improve with heat. Try cleaning the saw blade, maybe
applying some wax, and if you have a rip blade, use that instead of a combination.

[Keith Nuttle]

On 1/3/2017 5:41 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.
>

From a long term prospective, you may wish to consider running a couple
of new 20 amp circuits in your basement shop. With a saw motor the
circuit usually goes with the initial high amp load when the motor
starts. But as said if you are running a dust collection system and
some other high load equipment, you may be safer with the higher amp
circuits.

My work shop (part of my garage) has only one 20 amp circuit. That is
the circuit the runs the garage door openner. It is a pain to have to
plug my saw into that outlet that is in the ceiling. I hope to add a
couple other 20 amp circuits in other areas ie. where I keep my work
bench and one to the freezer which is also in the garage.

[DerbyDad03]

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 6:09:36 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/3/17 4:41 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> > I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.
> >
>
> As others have pointed out, it depends on the gauge of the wire.
> #12 wire will handle 20amps, but you need to make sure it's #12 all the
> way to the breaker.
>
> With one 15amp breaker for your whole shop, I would be hesitant to put a
> 20amp breaker in and then run the saw plus a dust collector at the same
> time.
>
> Sounds like a good excuse to run another circuit out there. :-)
>

At least one more. I'd run a separate circuit just for the lights. It sucks having the lights
go out at the same time the table saw stops, leaving you in the dark.

[k...@notreal.com]

+1 It's essentially the same as sticking a penny in the fuse box.

[DerbyDad03]

[k...@notreal.com]

Is it 240V? If the outlet the saw is plugged into is the only one on
the circuit, it might be really easy to convert it to 240V. That'll
help a lot more than going from 15A to 20A.

[Markem]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 14:41:17 -0800 (PST), "Gramps' shop"
<lawrence....@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.

What gauge extension cord used if any?

Switching the circuit breaker at the box to a 20 amp, requires a wire
change to 12 gauge.

Where is the breaker box, if in the basement run a new 20 amp circuit
same cost as changing the wire and breaker.

[DerbyDad03]

Of course, all of us who have suggested a new circuit are assuming there is room
in the panel.

[k...@notreal.com]

I wired my shop with outlets on alternating circuits, so I can plug
the tool in one outlet and a vac into the adjacent outlet. They're on
opposite sides of the box, too. Lighting is also on separate
circuits.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 20:51:33 -0500, Keith Nuttle
<Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/3/2017 5:41 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
>> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.
>>
> From a long term prospective, you may wish to consider running a couple
>of new 20 amp circuits in your basement shop. With a saw motor the
>circuit usually goes with the initial high amp load when the motor
>starts. But as said if you are running a dust collection system and
>some other high load equipment, you may be safer with the higher amp
>circuits.

If you do run new circuits, make 'em 240V. The tools will appreciate
it.

[Keith Nuttle]

On 1/3/2017 9:14 PM, Markem wrote:
> What gauge extension cord used if any?

From experience that is an interesting question.

My table saw requires 20 amps to start the saw with a 1hp motor. There
is a short cord on the motor that plugs into the switch at the front of
the table. Over the period 40 years the cord from the switch to the
wall became damaged, and I had to replace it. I struggled to find the
right cord. I finally use a 14 gauge cord.

Why because every cord I could find was 14 gauge, and when I went to
Menards, Lowes and a couple of other places where there were saws on
display with 1 hp motors, they all had 14 gauge wire into the motor.
usually just a couple of feet long.


We have all been giving advice that focused on the wire gauge and
circuit. I don't believe the question was ever asked as to the size of
the motor, and the start mechanism, ie capacitor start etc.

Both would have bearing in the size of the cord required.

Knowing the motor specs, it is possible that the saw is blowing the
circuit not because the circuit is inadequate because there is some
internal short in the system.

If it were me I would check the short possibility before I purchased a
new cord or installed additional circuits. (Even though my original
post jumped to the circuit solution.)

[k...@notreal.com]

Even so, there are usually alternatives that aren't too difficult.
Single breakers can be replaced with doubles and installing a
sub-panel isn't usually all that difficult. If everything is
sheetrocked, it'll be harder to run the wires than either solution
above. If not, it's all pretty easy.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 21:44:21 -0500, Keith Nuttle
<Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/3/2017 9:14 PM, Markem wrote:
>> What gauge extension cord used if any?
> From experience that is an interesting question.
>
>My table saw requires 20 amps to start the saw with a 1hp motor. There
>is a short cord on the motor that plugs into the switch at the front of
>the table. Over the period 40 years the cord from the switch to the
>wall became damaged, and I had to replace it. I struggled to find the
>right cord. I finally use a 14 gauge cord.
>
>Why because every cord I could find was 14 gauge, and when I went to
>Menards, Lowes and a couple of other places where there were saws on
>display with 1 hp motors, they all had 14 gauge wire into the motor.
>usually just a couple of feet long.

I made my own.

>We have all been giving advice that focused on the wire gauge and
>circuit. I don't believe the question was ever asked as to the size of
>the motor, and the start mechanism, ie capacitor start etc.

Not really. The OP asked if he could go from a 15A to a 20A breaker.
To do that, 12GA wiring is required. It has nothing to do with the
motor.

>Both would have bearing in the size of the cord required.

Larger wire is better, sure, but that wasn't what was asked.

>
>Knowing the motor specs, it is possible that the saw is blowing the
>circuit not because the circuit is inadequate because there is some
>internal short in the system.

Or too the saw is too far from the panel. Again, we were asked if the
breaker could be increased from 15A to 20A.

>
>If it were me I would check the short possibility before I purchased a
>new cord or installed additional circuits. (Even though my original
>post jumped to the circuit solution.)

He's only having problems with 8/4 maple, which tells me that there
isn't anything wrong with the saw.

We're not talking about replacing the cord, rather the breaker (and,
if necessary, the wiring). The best solution is to go to 240V but
that takes a little more than was asked.

[Meanie]

There are roughly 11 million illegal aliens in the US, who's gonna know. ;)

[Scott Lurndal]

"Gramps' shop" <lawrence....@gmail.com> writes:
>I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.

You haven't provided enough information. The breaker
protects the wiring and any attached devices (e.g. receptacles).

What AWG is the wire from the breaker to the receptacle for
the table saw? Is the receptacle rated for 20A?

[Dr. Deb]

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:41:23 PM UTC-6, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.

The simple truth is, you need to rewire your shop and have, at the minimum, two 20amp breakers and all 12ga wire. If that means putting in a new breaker box, its not all that expensive, especially when compared to either burning out the motor on your saw or burning the house down.

[DerbyDad03]

A dedicated 15A lighting circuit is a requirement in my opinion. 20A if you
like, but certainly not necessary. IMO it's the dedicated part that is most
important. Plunging the shop into darkness when a power tool trips the
breaker isn't safe.

[G. Ross]

Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.
>

--
GW Ross

I hate to repeat gossip, so I'll only
say this once.

[G. Ross]

Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.
>

Has it always tripped easily? How old is the breaker? They do age.
I have had to replace a couple in the past that started tripping
easily. Not to negate the advice others have given.

[John McCoy]

Keith Nuttle <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:o4hnhv$9au$1...@gioia.aioe.org:

> My table saw requires 20 amps to start the saw with a 1hp motor.
> There is a short cord on the motor that plugs into the switch at the
> front of the table. Over the period 40 years the cord from the switch
> to the wall became damaged, and I had to replace it. I struggled to
> find the right cord. I finally use a 14 gauge cord.
>
> Why because every cord I could find was 14 gauge, and when I went to
> Menards, Lowes and a couple of other places where there were saws on
> display with 1 hp motors, they all had 14 gauge wire into the motor.
> usually just a couple of feet long.
>
> We have all been giving advice that focused on the wire gauge and
> circuit. I don't believe the question was ever asked as to the size
> of the motor, and the start mechanism, ie capacitor start etc.
>
> Both would have bearing in the size of the cord required.

There's a bit of fuzzy understanding in these statements.
The gauge of wire required is a function of both the current
drawn (i.e. horsepower of the motor) and the length of the
wire. 4 feet of 14 gauge to a 1hp motor is fine, 40 feet of
14 gauge is not.

In this case the OP wants to run a 20A circuit of some
considerable length (we don't know how far, but breaker
panel to basement is likely to be on the order of 40 or
more feet). A 20A circuit of that length needs 12 gauge,
regardless of what's on the end of it.

> Knowing the motor specs, it is possible that the saw is blowing the
> circuit not because the circuit is inadequate because there is some
> internal short in the system.

From the OP's comments, the saw runs OK on lighter cuts,
it just trips with the 6/4 lumber. That says there is
no short or other problem in the circuit, it simply needs
more current for the thicker wood.

John

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:55:33 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Keith Nuttle <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>news:o4hnhv$9au$1...@gioia.aioe.org:
>
>> My table saw requires 20 amps to start the saw with a 1hp motor.
>> There is a short cord on the motor that plugs into the switch at the
>> front of the table. Over the period 40 years the cord from the switch
>> to the wall became damaged, and I had to replace it. I struggled to
>> find the right cord. I finally use a 14 gauge cord.
>>
>> Why because every cord I could find was 14 gauge, and when I went to
>> Menards, Lowes and a couple of other places where there were saws on
>> display with 1 hp motors, they all had 14 gauge wire into the motor.
>> usually just a couple of feet long.
>>
>> We have all been giving advice that focused on the wire gauge and
>> circuit. I don't believe the question was ever asked as to the size
>> of the motor, and the start mechanism, ie capacitor start etc.
>>
>> Both would have bearing in the size of the cord required.
>
>There's a bit of fuzzy understanding in these statements.
>The gauge of wire required is a function of both the current
>drawn (i.e. horsepower of the motor) and the length of the
>wire. 4 feet of 14 gauge to a 1hp motor is fine, 40 feet of
>14 gauge is not.

14 gauge on a 20A breaker is not.

>
>In this case the OP wants to run a 20A circuit of some
>considerable length (we don't know how far, but breaker
>panel to basement is likely to be on the order of 40 or
>more feet). A 20A circuit of that length needs 12 gauge,
>regardless of what's on the end of it.

A 20A circuit of *any* length requires 12ga (or larger), no matter
what's on the end of it. Period.

[Scott Lurndal]

k...@notreal.com writes:
>On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:55:33 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
><igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>Keith Nuttle <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>>news:o4hnhv$9au$1...@gioia.aioe.org:
>>
>>> My table saw requires 20 amps to start the saw with a 1hp motor.
>>> There is a short cord on the motor that plugs into the switch at the
>>> front of the table. Over the period 40 years the cord from the switch
>>> to the wall became damaged, and I had to replace it. I struggled to
>>> find the right cord. I finally use a 14 gauge cord.
>>>
>>> Why because every cord I could find was 14 gauge, and when I went to
>>> Menards, Lowes and a couple of other places where there were saws on
>>> display with 1 hp motors, they all had 14 gauge wire into the motor.
>>> usually just a couple of feet long.
>>>
>>> We have all been giving advice that focused on the wire gauge and
>>> circuit. I don't believe the question was ever asked as to the size
>>> of the motor, and the start mechanism, ie capacitor start etc.
>>>
>>> Both would have bearing in the size of the cord required.
>>
>>There's a bit of fuzzy understanding in these statements.
>>The gauge of wire required is a function of both the current
>>drawn (i.e. horsepower of the motor) and the length of the
>>wire. 4 feet of 14 gauge to a 1hp motor is fine, 40 feet of
>>14 gauge is not.
>
>14 gauge on a 20A breaker is not.

AWG 12 to the receptacle then AWG 14 from the receptacle
to the saw _is_.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:43:23 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Sure but that was not what was said.

[John McCoy]

k...@notreal.com wrote in
news:fb2t6clsvhh8uekbv...@4ax.com:

How now? How else would you read "4 feet to a 1hp motor
is fine"?

I'm beginning to think "that was not what was said" has
become a code for "I didn't actually read what I'm responding
to" (not to pick on krw, I'm seeing people in other forums
use the same excuse).

John

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:38:39 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy

<igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>k...@notreal.com wrote in
>news:fb2t6clsvhh8uekbv...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:43:23 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>k...@notreal.com writes:
>>>>On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:55:33 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
>>>><igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>4 feet of 14 gauge to a 1hp motor is fine, 40 feet of
>>>>>14 gauge is not.
>>>>
>>>>14 gauge on a 20A breaker is not.
>>>
>>>AWG 12 to the receptacle then AWG 14 from the receptacle
>>>to the saw _is_.
>>
>> Sure but that was not what was said.
>
>How now? How else would you read "4 feet to a 1hp motor
>is fine"?

How abou tthe 40 feet from the box to the outlet?

>
>I'm beginning to think "that was not what was said" has
>become a code for "I didn't actually read what I'm responding
>to" (not to pick on krw, I'm seeing people in other forums
>use the same excuse).

Open your eyes.

[John McCoy]

k...@notreal.com wrote in
news:d7q07clc1jmno5rmg...@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:38:39 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
> <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>k...@notreal.com wrote in
>>news:fb2t6clsvhh8uekbv...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:43:23 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott
>>> Lurndal) wrote:
>>>
>>>>k...@notreal.com writes:
>>>>>On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 19:55:33 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
>>>>><igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>4 feet of 14 gauge to a 1hp motor is fine, 40 feet of
>>>>>>14 gauge is not.
>>>>>
>>>>>14 gauge on a 20A breaker is not.
>>>>
>>>>AWG 12 to the receptacle then AWG 14 from the receptacle
>>>>to the saw _is_.
>>>
>>> Sure but that was not what was said.
>>
>>How now? How else would you read "4 feet to a 1hp motor
>>is fine"?
>
> How abou tthe 40 feet from the box to the outlet?

Which I said 14ga was not suitable for.

>>I'm beginning to think "that was not what was said" has
>>become a code for "I didn't actually read what I'm responding
>>to" (not to pick on krw, I'm seeing people in other forums
>>use the same excuse).
>
> Open your eyes.

Aha, here's the other code - the one that means "I know
I'm wrong, so I'll just pretend the other guy isn't
paying attention".

John

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 22:22:22 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy

Good Lord, you're an asshole.

[Mark H]

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:41:23 PM UTC-6, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I have one 15-amp circuit serving my basement shop. Can I switch the breaker to 20 amps? TS is tripping when ripping 6/4 maple.

I would like to know what is going on with the voltage. If you have 120 volts and it drops to say 90 volts when you cut the maple you have a problem and changing a breaker is not the fix.

[Scott Lurndal]

V = IR?

[Martin Eastburn]

The power wires between the saw and the socket might be to light.
Simple as that. Or - the power wires to the socket from the breaker is
to small in diameter and out of spec. Might be a spliced one with
other service tied on to it.

What is the HP of the saw ?

Martin