Formica

[gray_wolf]

Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my garage.
I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come out.
I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for days.
I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?

[Leon]

Glue it down.

[gray_wolf]

I did that with one piece. It wasn't warped too bad.
I made a rig where I could hold it and place it where
it needed to go. This stuff I have left has a 8" radius
curve to it. oh well...

[dpb]

On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:

+1

Use the original (not the new waterbase and I'm presuming can still
obtain it; been a _long_ time since I've done any laminate, like 15 yr)
contact cement as it's stickier imo altho probably can get by otherwise.

Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the surface
with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good bond and
roll it well it should be fine.

--

[Unquestionably Confused]

How about some cauls?<g>

[Leon]

It is a wonder that it did not break with that tight of radius if you
did not use a heat gun to wind it that tightly.

Also, wetting any plastic laminate is not going to aid in forming it.
It is water proof.

[Leon]

On 11/21/2015 10:16 AM, dpb wrote:

I last worked with plastic laminate on an airplane model display
cabinet. The panels were 3/4" thick and covered on all 6 sides/edges
including beveled edges. There were 8 main panels and 2 posts, so 58
separate glue ups on a project about half the size of a refrigerator.
The job was very tedious.

[John McCoy]

Unquestionably Confused <puzz...@ameritech.net> wrote in
news:56509bad$0$9235$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com:

In this application, the 3/4 ply _is_ a caul. Oh noes! We've
violated Electric Comet's definition of caul! Who'd have
thought a caul could be 4 feet wide, 8 feet long, and only
3/4 inch thick, with no curve!

John

[Unquestionably Confused]

No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
That'll put a curve on it!<g>

[woodchucker]

Apply contact cement to the surface, of the substrate and formica, and
wait for them to dry to the touch.

Then apply ... it will straigten out.

So seriously, I doubt rolling the other way will remove the set not
without time. I think it has been that way for a while and you need heat
(hot garage summer day ) to help. You might try your attic for a while
after rolling it the other way.

If it's not ridiculous, use 1/4 or 3/8 ply to cover it while trying to
apply it, the weight of it will keep the curl down while you work your
hands underneath and apply it.



--
Jeff

[woodchucker]

No it won't.
Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.



--
Jeff

[Unquestionably Confused]

Read it again, Jeff. I was referring to putting a curve to the caul,
the 3/4" plywood<g>

[dadiOH]

If what you have left is 8" long you may have a problem. If it is 8' long,
you don't.

[whit3rd]

Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
to make a curve.
The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
from under it.

The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the right shape of tuit).

[Leon]

On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>
>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>
>> No it won't.
>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>
> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
> to make a curve.
> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
> from under it.

Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
back side.

[Leon]

Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
regardless of reason.

You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
material subsurface. That will warp with water.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
a cheam'n'nasty pallet)

[Leon]

Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
different temp.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

From Formica's information on the internet at:
http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf

Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
an HVAC equipment supplier.
Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
months, when dry air conditions often exist

Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
differential expansion - no??

[Leon]

I suppose anything is possible. But is all plastic laminate considered
postforming?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:52:09 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

If it can be used for things that are not flat, it is postformable.
I imagine there is non postformable formica - but the "form" in
"formica" WAS because it was "formable"

[Spalted Walt]

Not even close:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_%28plastic%29

Etymology of the name
The mineral mica was commonly used at that time
for electrical insulation. Because the new product
acted as a substitute “for mica”, Faber used the
name “Formica”

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Regardless, on the Formica site it indicates all of their high
pressure laminate products are postformable.

I had heard it was named Formica because unlike mineral mica
insulation, it was "formable" mica insulation.. Looks like I was
probably misinformed on that count.

My assertion that it was a melamine resin finish is however supported.

[Leon]

I'm thinking post, after the fact, formable.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 08:07:05 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

PostFormable laminate is flat laminate sheets that can be "post
formed" into things like countertops with the anti-drip round edge,
and the low back-splash like found on most kitchen and bath
countertops, among many other things.. It is heathed and formed to
shape and glued to a (usually manufactured lumber) substrrate.