Straightening a Table Saw Blade

[joelj...@aol.com]

My blade is a 10" Amana 80-tooth, thin kerf, trim blade.

For reasons I won't embarrassingly reveal, the blade now has about 25 thou runout about 1" inside the OD.

My questions:

1) Have you ever had a blade straightened?

2) Can this blade be straightened to acceptable specs?

3) If so, is it worth it? A new replacement Amana blade is around $125.

I know there are cheaper, alternative blade choices, but I'd like to stick with the setup I now have.

Thanks,
Joel

[Ed Pawlowski]

Send it to Ridge Carbide or Forrest for sharpening. I think they
straighten them too.

[Leon]

joelj...@aol.com <joelj...@aol.com> wrote:
> My blade is a 10" Amana 80-tooth, thin kerf, trim blade.
>
> For reasons I won't embarrassingly reveal, the blade now has about 25
> thou runout about 1" inside the OD.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Have you ever had a blade straightened?

Yes, a time or two over the past 17 years.

>
> 2) Can this blade be straightened to acceptable specs?

I'm sure that would depend on the Servives performing the repair. FWIW
Forrest Manufacturing does this and probably something they do routinely.
Part of their sales pitch is that their places are manufactured to within
certain tolerances. I'm pretty sure that a number of their blades need
some flattening during that process.
Anyway now is a good time mention the benefits of a regular kerf place. I
have witnessed thin kerf blades that wobble enough that you can see it but
some what corrects itself when running at normal speed but not cutting.
Thin kerf blades simply are more likely to not remain flat and or deflect
more than regular kerf blades.

>
> 3) If so, is it worth it? A new replacement Amana blade is around $125.

Hard to say. It is a thin kerf blade and by nature more likely to need to
be flattened in the future. Forrest charges by the time involved in the
flattening process. You can request that they give you an estimate and or
call you before performing the repair if the cost will be over X dollars.
Every time I send my Forrest blades to be resharpened I request that the
blades be brought back to factory specs and to call me if the repair will
be over a certain amount.

>
> I know there are cheaper, alternative blade choices, but I'd like to
> stick with the setup I now have.

You may also consider a regular kerf blade such as a Forrest. If you are
talking 10" blade you can get a new one for about the price you mentioned
for the Amana.
>
> Thanks,
> Joel
>

[Swingman]

On 11/14/2015 6:08 AM, joelj...@aol.com wrote:

> For reasons I won't embarrassingly reveal, the blade now has about 25 thou runout about 1" inside the OD.

You must remove the zero clearance insert BEFORE you tilt the blade ...
DAMHIKT.

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[Electric Comet]

On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 08:12:03 -0600
Swingman <k...@nospam.com> wrote:

> You must remove the zero clearance insert BEFORE you tilt the
> blade ... DAMHIKT.

so that is how they get bent

interesting

i was trying to think how a blade could be bent and it seems like it would
be hard to do that from cutting unless maybe something was pushed in
too fast and with too much force

[Doug Miller]

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in news:1mce4b9ourpqo8m0ail6c2e8m4eltglihm@
4ax.com:

> On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 04:08:25 -0800 (PST), "joelj...@aol.com"
> <joelj...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>My blade is a 10" Amana 80-tooth, thin kerf, trim blade.
>>
>>For reasons I won't embarrassingly reveal, the blade now has about 25 thou runout about
1" inside the OD.
>>
>>My questions:
>>
>>1) Have you ever had a blade straightened?
>>
>>2) Can this blade be straightened to acceptable specs?

> Send it to Ridge Carbide or Forrest for sharpening. I think they
> straighten them too.

DON'T send it to Forrest! I had a similar issue with one of their blades. They had absolutely
no clue how to fix the runout -- after sending it back *twice* it was still no better.

I eventually sent the same blade to Ridge Carbide and they fixed it on the first shot. I'm
done with Forrest.

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 4:08:29 AM UTC-8, joelj...@aol.com wrote:
> My blade is a 10" Amana 80-tooth, thin kerf, trim blade.
>
> For reasons I won't embarrassingly reveal, the blade now has about 25 thou runout about 1" inside the OD.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Have you ever had a blade straightened?

If by 'straightened' you mean 'whacked with a hammer to flatten it', yes.
I've also used a dial gage to adjust individual teeth that got out-of-whack.

It'd be tricky on a good blade (I've only done this to cheap disposable items,
which had storage-induced issues).

[woodchucker]

I sent my forrest wwii to Forrest for sharpening. They straightened the
plate too.

I think I paid about 45 for straightening and sharpening. Again I think.
They will do all brands of blades.

--
Jeff

[woodchucker]

Kick back can damage a blade, or in my case, the antifriction pads were
knocked off and the fence was no longer parallel to the blade. My son
was working on it, and I think he didn't release the lock all the way or
for whatever reason. But the blade got bound in the piece.

Forrest did an excellent job.. Sorry Doug M that your experience was
less than that.


--
Jeff

[Swingman]

On 11/14/2015 7:32 PM, Doug Miller wrote:

> I eventually sent the same blade to Ridge Carbide and they fixed it on the first shot. I'm
> done with Forrest.

Ditto.
Not the same since the old man died.

[tomwalz]

This is Neal Davis on Hammering Saw Plate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXiZJpq-tIw

10" blades usually don't need hammering. Big saw blades are hammered and tensioned to be floppy. This way they run straight and true at speed.

Some 10" blades can be hammered. If the blade has a lot of scroll work on it, it will add to the cost. If the blade is coated the coating will need to removed so the Hammerman (Hammersmith, Sawfiler) can accurately read the blade.

On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 4:08:29 AM UTC-8, joelj...@aol.com wrote:

[joelj...@aol.com]

> Thin kerf blades simply are more likely to not remain flat and or deflect
> more than regular kerf blades.

Thanks ... Since, years ago, I unwisely bought my Unisaw with only a 1 ½ HP motor. I opted to use thin kerf blades whenever possible. I use a vibration damper and a dedicated rip blade and a dedicated trim blade.

This has worked well, and, in certain cases, I'll use a ⅛" kerf blade when I need to.

> > 3) If so, is it worth it? A new replacement Amana blade is around $125.
>

> You can request that they give you an estimate and or
> call you before performing the repair if the cost will be over X dollars.
> Every time I send my Forrest blades to be resharpened I request that the
> blades be brought back to factory specs and to call me if the repair will
> be over a certain amount.

I'll check that out

> You may also consider a regular kerf blade such as a Forrest.

I do have a Forrest blade, but I decided to use rip blade for ripping and I get better results.

Also. it takes me less than a minute to change blades.

[joelj...@aol.com]

> You must remove the zero clearance insert BEFORE you tilt the blade ...
> DAMHIKT.

I did something much stupider than that: I neglected to tighten the nut onto the arbor. The blade spun freely and galled the inside of the hole. This caused the blade to stick to the mandrel, and I had to pry it off with much force.

[Leon]

joelj...@aol.com <joelj...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Thin kerf blades simply are more likely to not remain flat and or deflect
>> more than regular kerf blades.
>
> Thanks ... Since, years ago, I unwisely bought my Unisaw with only a 1 ½
> HP motor. I opted to use thin kerf blades whenever possible. I use a
> vibration damper and a dedicated rip blade and a dedicated trim blade.

FFWIW I used thin kerf on a Craftsman with just 1 hp. Then my re
sharpening guy talked me into a good quality regular kerf. I never looked
back. The quality regular kerf did fine but a little slower with 1 hp.
But if you are happy, keep on keeping on. :-)

[Leon]

Swingman <k...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 11/14/2015 7:32 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> I eventually sent the same blade to Ridge Carbide and they fixed it on
>> the first shot. I'm
>> done with Forrest.
>
> Ditto.
> Not the same since the old man died.
>

I have not had a problem yet. Where are you sending your blades now?

[Leon]

Woah. It will probably be less expensive to replace. That blade may
never be the same again.

[Doug Miller]

Leon <lcb1...@swbell.net> wrote in news:853061326.469546785.682903.lcb11211-
swbel...@news.giganews.com:

Ridge Carbide, as noted above.

[Leon]

Understood, but is that the one Swingman is using too?

[Doug Miller]

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:TZidnXppxvVsvtDL...@giganews.com:

Sorry, missed that, thought you were replying to me and not Swing. Never mind.

[Leon]

Np!

[Swingman]

On 11/18/2015 7:45 AM, Leon wrote:
>> >Ditto.
>> >Not the same since the old man died.
>> >
> I have not had a problem yet. Where are you sending your blades now?

Sorry, I did not see this.

No, the last one I sent to Forrest about a year and a half ago didn't
really cut any better when I got it back, than it did before I sent it.

Disappointing...

The new Forrest I purchased, about 18 months ago, will probably be my
last. Have two now that need sharpening and was going to look locally,
or might try Ridge Carbide.

Freud dial-a-width dado stack and the Freud glue-line rip have stood me
well, so I will probably buy a Freud combo next time.

[Leon]

On 11/20/2015 9:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/18/2015 7:45 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> >Ditto.
>>> >Not the same since the old man died.
>>> >
>> I have not had a problem yet. Where are you sending your blades now?
>
> Sorry, I did not see this.
>
> No, the last one I sent to Forrest about a year and a half ago didn't
> really cut any better when I got it back, than it did before I sent it.
>
> Disappointing...
>
> The new Forrest I purchased, about 18 months ago, will probably be my
> last. Have two now that need sharpening and was going to look locally,
> or might try Ridge Carbide.
>
> Freud dial-a-width dado stack and the Freud glue-line rip have stood me
> well, so I will probably buy a Freud combo next time.
>
>

Thanks.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 11/20/2015 10:25 AM, Swingman wrote:

> The new Forrest I purchased, about 18 months ago, will probably be my
> last. Have two now that need sharpening and was going to look locally,
> or might try Ridge Carbide.
>

I sent a couple of Freud and a DeWalt blade to Ridge Carbide and they
came back cutting better than new. I also use their dado and combo
blade with excellent results.

[Swingman]

You, and Doug Miller have me convinced.
Thanks ... provided me with the "energy of activation". ;)

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 11/20/2015 7:08 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Think that I've mentioned before my "success" with the Freud 10" rip blade.

Had to rip down some 16' 2x10's and I swear the cut edge looked and felt
as if it had been run through a jointer. Smooth as a baby's butt!

The strangest part was that I did it with my ca 1970 Craftsman RAS.
Still have the blade and it cuts just as nice in my Jet cabinet saw.
One of these days I'll need to get it sharpened but for the time being
it's sweet!

[Leon]

I still admit that I don't use a rip blade. I know in theory that they
should to a better job but no one has ever described better results than I
get with mi WWII. The only your I don't get great rip results is then the
board is not perfectly straight and or the board warps during the cut. I
don't think a rip blade will improve on that. Am I wrong?

[Unquestionably Confused]

No, I don't think that you are. Technology and design are constantly
changing.

I don't think that the WWII was around in 1984(?) when I bought that
Freud blade. I now have the WWII and it rips fine, but not, I don't
think, as well as the Freud.

Bottom line, I think, is to buy a top quality blade designed for the
job. The WWII is a well designed combo blade and therein lies its success.

[Swingman]

On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:

> I still admit that I don't use a rip blade. I know in theory that they
> should to a better job but no one has ever described better results than I
> get with mi WWII.

Using both types of blades, I do see/feel a difference, otherwise
(hating "change" as I do (even changing blades)) I wouldn't bother. :)

Seriously, where I do see/feel the difference is when cutting thick 8/4+
hardwood stock for table legs and chair parts, and have done a ton of both.

Also find I have less burn when cutting thicker hard maple, which I use
a lot of, with my Freud Glue-Line rip.

[Leon]

On 11/21/2015 9:00 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> I still admit that I don't use a rip blade. I know in theory that they
>> should to a better job but no one has ever described better results
>> than I
>> get with mi WWII.
>
> Using both types of blades, I do see/feel a difference, otherwise
> (hating "change" as I do (even changing blades)) I wouldn't bother. :)
>
> Seriously, where I do see/feel the difference is when cutting thick 8/4+
> hardwood stock for table legs and chair parts, and have done a ton of both.
>
> Also find I have less burn when cutting thicker hard maple, which I use
> a lot of, with my Freud Glue-Line rip.
>

Got it. And that explains why I don't see the difference. I do have a
Systematic rip blade but hardly ever use it, it has yet to be put on the
SS. I don't often cut much thicker than 1".

I wonder if Rockler or Woodcraft have a sharpening service that they
recommend. IIRC both offer this service through a third party.
And here is hoping that my WWII came back good, I got it back 3~4 months
ago and will probably not pull the protective coating off until I send
the current one in to be sharpened.

Years ago, going back to about 1988 I used MVP sharpeners. They were on
Post Oak in Meyerland and probably 10~12 years ago moved to across Sam
Houston Tollway from Hardwood Products. I was never impressed with
their service after they moved, the son took over the fathers business.
I'm not sure they are even still in business. The last time I used
them the blade came back, I did a test cut, and immediately sent it to
Forrest.


I pretty much don't try to diagnose when I send to Forrest. I simply
ask to have the blade brought back to factory specs, call me if the
repair will be more than $50. Hopefully my last sharpening by them will
be OK.

[-MIKE-]

On 11/20/15 10:44 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 11/20/2015 7:08 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 11/20/2015 10:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>> The new Forrest I purchased, about 18 months ago, will probably be my
>>> last. Have two now that need sharpening and was going to look locally,
>>> or might try Ridge Carbide.
>>>
>>
>> I sent a couple of Freud and a DeWalt blade to Ridge Carbide and they
>> came back cutting better than new. I also use their dado and combo
>> blade with excellent results.
>
> Think that I've mentioned before my "success" with the Freud 10" rip blade.
>
> Had to rip down some 16' 2x10's and I swear the cut edge looked and felt
> as if it had been run through a jointer. Smooth as a baby's butt!
>

Me, too! I have the "Glue-Line" rip blade and the cut is usually just
as they say, ready for joining.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[-MIKE-]

I don't have a WWII so I can't say. I think the larger gullets help you
cut more quickly and will less binding and that's the appeal of a rip
blade. Freud took it a step further and included teeth with a
grind that *also* produces a very smooth cut.

The WWII is supposed to be the best blade on earth, so perhaps you won't
see a vast improvement. But for those who were using inferior blades,
the difference is just that: vast.

[Leon]

I think you are right and this may absolutely make a big difference on
thicker boards and or underpowered saws. If I fear burning I raise the
blade so that there is more blade body than teeth in the kerf.

>
> The WWII is supposed to be the best blade on earth, so perhaps you won't
> see a vast improvement. But for those who were using inferior blades,
> the difference is just that: vast.
>

FWIW with good flat straight stock that remains that way after cutting I
typically get just shy of a burnished edge when ripping 3/4" and thinner
stock. The cross cuts are burnished when cutting hard woods like white
oak.

My biggest question is "what am I missing" not using a rip blade. And
as Swingman pointed out not much, when cutting 1" and thinner and or
hard maple.

[-MIKE-]

He's used both so he would know. In the WWII world, folks might not
care unless cutting thick.

For anyone listening in who doesn't use a WWII and hasn't used a good
quality rip blade.... there's a huge difference, look into it.