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The shed wall
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J. Clarke
Jun 21, 2015, 8:30:27 PM6/21/15
to
Behind my garage there is an attached shed. I opened the (plywood)
doors a while back and they came off in my hand. Last weekend I planned
on fixing them but . . . Turns out the reason they came off was that
trim into which the hinges were screwed was rotten. So pulled it off
and the T1-11 under it was rotten. So pulled that off and the studs
were rotten. So demoed the whole wall preparatory to rebuilding it and
the sill plates were not just rotten but an ant farm.
Well, decided to fix it _right_ so I'm not fixing it again in my 90s.
Also gave me an opportunity to give it a wider door to fit a modern
riding mower. So today's activity was going to be to put down some
cinder blocks to raise the sill 8 inches above the ground. Well, turns
out that every single beeping one of the sill anchors is on a web of the
cinder blocks. Every . . . single . . . blasted . . . one.
AAAARRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!
Now I'm torn between just putting a few bricks on the ends to shift the
webs over or cutting off the anchors and planting new ones. Economic
sense says bricks. Lust for an SDS drill says new anchors. Decisions,
decisions . . .
doors a while back and they came off in my hand. Last weekend I planned
on fixing them but . . . Turns out the reason they came off was that
trim into which the hinges were screwed was rotten. So pulled it off
and the T1-11 under it was rotten. So pulled that off and the studs
were rotten. So demoed the whole wall preparatory to rebuilding it and
the sill plates were not just rotten but an ant farm.
Well, decided to fix it _right_ so I'm not fixing it again in my 90s.
Also gave me an opportunity to give it a wider door to fit a modern
riding mower. So today's activity was going to be to put down some
cinder blocks to raise the sill 8 inches above the ground. Well, turns
out that every single beeping one of the sill anchors is on a web of the
cinder blocks. Every . . . single . . . blasted . . . one.
AAAARRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!
Now I'm torn between just putting a few bricks on the ends to shift the
webs over or cutting off the anchors and planting new ones. Economic
sense says bricks. Lust for an SDS drill says new anchors. Decisions,
decisions . . .
jloomis
Jun 21, 2015, 9:20:27 PM6/21/15
to
Move the cinder blocks forward or backward to miss the bolts.
And then get threaded couples to raise the bolts that much higher?
Also pre-drill some anchor so that the new concrete adheres and sticks to
the
new additions.
You can use Simpson Epoxy to set the new steel pins also.
john
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
news:MPG.2ff122be9...@news.eternal-september.org...
And then get threaded couples to raise the bolts that much higher?
Also pre-drill some anchor so that the new concrete adheres and sticks to
the
new additions.
You can use Simpson Epoxy to set the new steel pins also.
john
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
news:MPG.2ff122be9...@news.eternal-september.org...
J. Clarke
Jun 21, 2015, 11:06:08 PM6/21/15
to
In article <mm7n...@news4.newsguy.com>, jlo...@oceans.net says...
several inches of slab exposed. You have seen a cinder block have you
not?
> And then get threaded couples to raise the bolts that much higher?
Already got them.
> Also pre-drill some anchor so that the new concrete adheres and sticks to
> the
> new additions.
Which means buying or renting the SDS hammer.
> You can use Simpson Epoxy to set the new steel pins also.
One approach.
>
> Move the cinder blocks forward or backward to miss the bolts.
"Forward" means that they're sitting in the yard, "backward" means
> Move the cinder blocks forward or backward to miss the bolts.
several inches of slab exposed. You have seen a cinder block have you
not?
> And then get threaded couples to raise the bolts that much higher?
> Also pre-drill some anchor so that the new concrete adheres and sticks to
> the
> new additions.
> You can use Simpson Epoxy to set the new steel pins also.
Keith Nuttle
Jun 21, 2015, 11:12:47 PM6/21/15
to
started out with "How difficult can it be to replace a hinge".
How is the rest of the shed. Is it such that you should check other
walls for rot and ants and possibly replace the whole thing?
What ever you do I would treat the area under the shed for ants and
termites before continue with the project.
HerHusband
Jun 22, 2015, 12:59:15 AM6/22/15
to
lot stronger (especially if you add a piece of rebar reinforcement), and
seems like a lot less work.
You didn't mention what kind of floor your shed has, but if it's a wooden
floor it might be smarter to just pour a concrete slab for it. Mix-on-site
concrete trucks are great for small projects like this. No waste and you
only pay for what you need.
Good luck!
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
J. Clarke
Jun 22, 2015, 6:23:58 AM6/22/15
to
In article <mm7uf8$a7b$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Keith_...@sbcglobal.net
says...
I should have mentioned--it's slab-on-grade so there's nothing under it
really, but spraying the ground around it isn't a bad idea.
The opposite wall I'm not too sure about--it doesn't show any problems
from the inside and seems dry. The back wall, which is the only one
that is structural (the other structural wall is the garage wall) was
new five years ago, with everything within 8 inches of the ground
pressure-treated or treated with the old green Cuprinol other than the
siding, which is advertised as having been treated to be fungus and rot
resistant. There's also aluminum flashing going up 10 inches. I should
have put down a row of blocks there when I rebuilt the wall but I didn't
think of it.
says...
really, but spraying the ground around it isn't a bad idea.
The opposite wall I'm not too sure about--it doesn't show any problems
from the inside and seems dry. The back wall, which is the only one
that is structural (the other structural wall is the garage wall) was
new five years ago, with everything within 8 inches of the ground
pressure-treated or treated with the old green Cuprinol other than the
siding, which is advertised as having been treated to be fungus and rot
resistant. There's also aluminum flashing going up 10 inches. I should
have put down a row of blocks there when I rebuilt the wall but I didn't
think of it.
J. Clarke
Jun 22, 2015, 6:35:13 AM6/22/15
to
In article <XnsA4C0DFA8C4...@213.239.209.88>,
unk...@unknown.com says...
blocks?
And it doesn't have to be particularly strong. The rotwall survived two
hurricanes without any ill effects other than getting more wet and more
rotten. It's not a load-bearing wall.
> You didn't mention what kind of floor your shed has, but if it's a wooden
> floor it might be smarter to just pour a concrete slab for it. Mix-on-site
> concrete trucks are great for small projects like this. No waste and you
> only pay for what you need.
I should have mentioned that it's slab-on-grade and the sill anchors in
question are the ones that secured the rotted-out sill to the slab.
The whole idea is to get the sills 8 inches above grade as is required
by most building codes.
Of coures the cost-no-object "right" fix is to demo the whole thing and
start over with proper footings and go from there, but cost is definite
object.
unk...@unknown.com says...
>
> > Behind my garage there is an attached shed. I opened the (plywood)
> > doors a while back and they came off in my hand. Last weekend I planned
> > on fixing them but . . . Turns out the reason they came off was that
> > trim into which the hinges were screwed was rotten. So pulled it off
> > and the T1-11 under it was rotten. So pulled that off and the studs
> > were rotten. So demoed the whole wall preparatory to rebuilding it and
> > the sill plates were not just rotten but an ant farm.
> >
> > Well, decided to fix it _right_ so I'm not fixing it again in my 90s.
> > Also gave me an opportunity to give it a wider door to fit a modern
> > riding mower. So today's activity was going to be to put down some
> > cinder blocks to raise the sill 8 inches above the ground. Well, turns
> > out that every single beeping one of the sill anchors is on a web of the
> > cinder blocks. Every . . . single . . . blasted . . . one.
> > AAAARRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!
> >
> > Now I'm torn between just putting a few bricks on the ends to shift the
> > webs over or cutting off the anchors and planting new ones. Economic
> > sense says bricks. Lust for an SDS drill says new anchors. Decisions,
> > decisions . . .
>
> What about building some simple forms and pouring concrete? That would be a
> lot stronger (especially if you add a piece of rebar reinforcement), and
> seems like a lot less work.
What, pouring concrete is less work than setting a half a dozen cinder
> > Behind my garage there is an attached shed. I opened the (plywood)
> > doors a while back and they came off in my hand. Last weekend I planned
> > on fixing them but . . . Turns out the reason they came off was that
> > trim into which the hinges were screwed was rotten. So pulled it off
> > and the T1-11 under it was rotten. So pulled that off and the studs
> > were rotten. So demoed the whole wall preparatory to rebuilding it and
> > the sill plates were not just rotten but an ant farm.
> >
> > Well, decided to fix it _right_ so I'm not fixing it again in my 90s.
> > Also gave me an opportunity to give it a wider door to fit a modern
> > riding mower. So today's activity was going to be to put down some
> > cinder blocks to raise the sill 8 inches above the ground. Well, turns
> > out that every single beeping one of the sill anchors is on a web of the
> > cinder blocks. Every . . . single . . . blasted . . . one.
> > AAAARRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!
> >
> > Now I'm torn between just putting a few bricks on the ends to shift the
> > webs over or cutting off the anchors and planting new ones. Economic
> > sense says bricks. Lust for an SDS drill says new anchors. Decisions,
> > decisions . . .
>
> What about building some simple forms and pouring concrete? That would be a
> lot stronger (especially if you add a piece of rebar reinforcement), and
> seems like a lot less work.
blocks?
And it doesn't have to be particularly strong. The rotwall survived two
hurricanes without any ill effects other than getting more wet and more
rotten. It's not a load-bearing wall.
> You didn't mention what kind of floor your shed has, but if it's a wooden
> floor it might be smarter to just pour a concrete slab for it. Mix-on-site
> concrete trucks are great for small projects like this. No waste and you
> only pay for what you need.
question are the ones that secured the rotted-out sill to the slab.
The whole idea is to get the sills 8 inches above grade as is required
by most building codes.
Of coures the cost-no-object "right" fix is to demo the whole thing and
start over with proper footings and go from there, but cost is definite
object.
HerHusband
Jun 22, 2015, 9:58:27 AM6/22/15
to
> What, pouring concrete is less work than setting a half a dozen cinder
> blocks?
I guess it depends on what you're more familiar with. It would be a
> blocks?
simple matter to set up a couple of forms, pour in some concrete, and
level it off. Especially for a job that small.
I know blocks are common in many parts of the country, but I don't care
for them and have no experience with them. For me concrete would be a lot
easier to work with. With the cinder blocks you'll still need to mix up
mortar, try to keep things straight and level, and maybe fill the block
cores with mortar.
> I should have mentioned that it's slab-on-grade and the sill anchors
> in question are the ones that secured the rotted-out sill to the slab.
> The whole idea is to get the sills 8 inches above grade as is required
> by most building codes.
block wall for a doorway, won't that complicate getting your mower and
other items in and out of the shed?
Is it possible to regrade the area around the shed to gain clearance
without having to raise the shed wall?
Another option might be to add an overhang and/or gutter to the roof so
water is directed away from the building.
You could also put rock or concrete around the perimeter of the exterior
to minimize splashback on the wall. I have concrete pavers in front of
our shed with only 3-4" clearance between the siding and pavers. No ill
effects in 20 years.
Alternatively, you could simply add a strip along the bottom of the shed
that is impervious to water. Metal flashing, PVC or composite lumber,
etc. that would let you raise the bottom of the siding up as needed to
keep the wood away from the ground. I used that approach on my in-laws
garage since we weren't replacing the existing studs.
Finally, what about the other walls of the shed? If they haven't rotted,
what is different about them? More ground clearance, roof covering, etc.?
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
jloomis
Jun 22, 2015, 12:25:32 PM6/22/15
to
Bolt some good pressure treated 4x6 to the existing bolts and go for it.
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
news:MPG.2ff122be9...@news.eternal-september.org...
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
news:MPG.2ff122be9...@news.eternal-september.org...
J. Clarke
Jun 22, 2015, 6:49:34 PM6/22/15
to
In article <XnsA4C146EE35...@213.239.209.88>,
unk...@unknown.com says...
> > I should have mentioned that it's slab-on-grade and the sill anchors
> > in question are the ones that secured the rotted-out sill to the slab.
> > The whole idea is to get the sills 8 inches above grade as is required
> > by most building codes.
>
> Are you raising the door too? Unless you're leaving an opening in the
> block wall for a doorway, won't that complicate getting your mower and
> other items in and out of the shed?
Leaving an opening.
> Is it possible to regrade the area around the shed to gain clearance
> without having to raise the shed wall?
Nope. Not a chance. If I did that the slab would be suspended on air.
> Another option might be to add an overhang and/or gutter to the roof so
> water is directed away from the building.
It's on a side already--water goes over the wall at a right angle.
> You could also put rock or concrete around the perimeter of the exterior
> to minimize splashback on the wall. I have concrete pavers in front of
> our shed with only 3-4" clearance between the siding and pavers. No ill
> effects in 20 years.
>
> Alternatively, you could simply add a strip along the bottom of the shed
> that is impervious to water. Metal flashing, PVC or composite lumber,
> etc. that would let you raise the bottom of the siding up as needed to
> keep the wood away from the ground. I used that approach on my in-laws
> garage since we weren't replacing the existing studs.
>
> Finally, what about the other walls of the shed? If they haven't rotted,
> what is different about them? More ground clearance, roof covering, etc.?
One has and has been repaired, using the method that you suggest with
flashing etc, but I don't really like that as a solution. Code says 8
inches, it's in code for a reason.
In any case the decision is made--cut the anchors and replace them. One
is placed so that I can't get a wider opening.
unk...@unknown.com says...
>
> > What, pouring concrete is less work than setting a half a dozen cinder
> > blocks?
>
> I guess it depends on what you're more familiar with. It would be a
> simple matter to set up a couple of forms, pour in some concrete, and
> level it off. Especially for a job that small.
>
> I know blocks are common in many parts of the country, but I don't care
> for them and have no experience with them. For me concrete would be a lot
> easier to work with. With the cinder blocks you'll still need to mix up
> mortar, try to keep things straight and level, and maybe fill the block
> cores with mortar.
Waiting for a concrete truck to arrive is not in the cards.
> > What, pouring concrete is less work than setting a half a dozen cinder
> > blocks?
>
> I guess it depends on what you're more familiar with. It would be a
> simple matter to set up a couple of forms, pour in some concrete, and
> level it off. Especially for a job that small.
>
> I know blocks are common in many parts of the country, but I don't care
> for them and have no experience with them. For me concrete would be a lot
> easier to work with. With the cinder blocks you'll still need to mix up
> mortar, try to keep things straight and level, and maybe fill the block
> cores with mortar.
> > I should have mentioned that it's slab-on-grade and the sill anchors
> > in question are the ones that secured the rotted-out sill to the slab.
> > The whole idea is to get the sills 8 inches above grade as is required
> > by most building codes.
>
> Are you raising the door too? Unless you're leaving an opening in the
> block wall for a doorway, won't that complicate getting your mower and
> other items in and out of the shed?
> Is it possible to regrade the area around the shed to gain clearance
> without having to raise the shed wall?
> Another option might be to add an overhang and/or gutter to the roof so
> water is directed away from the building.
> You could also put rock or concrete around the perimeter of the exterior
> to minimize splashback on the wall. I have concrete pavers in front of
> our shed with only 3-4" clearance between the siding and pavers. No ill
> effects in 20 years.
>
> Alternatively, you could simply add a strip along the bottom of the shed
> that is impervious to water. Metal flashing, PVC or composite lumber,
> etc. that would let you raise the bottom of the siding up as needed to
> keep the wood away from the ground. I used that approach on my in-laws
> garage since we weren't replacing the existing studs.
>
> Finally, what about the other walls of the shed? If they haven't rotted,
> what is different about them? More ground clearance, roof covering, etc.?
flashing etc, but I don't really like that as a solution. Code says 8
inches, it's in code for a reason.
In any case the decision is made--cut the anchors and replace them. One
is placed so that I can't get a wider opening.
J. Clarke
Jun 22, 2015, 6:52:03 PM6/22/15
to
In article <mm9cu...@news6.newsguy.com>, jlo...@oceans.net says...
Seabee) way, and the way my Dad would have done it. I'm looking to do
it the _right_ way.
>
> Bolt some good pressure treated 4x6 to the existing bolts and go for it.
There's a right way, a wrong way, and an Army way. That's the Army (or
> Bolt some good pressure treated 4x6 to the existing bolts and go for it.
Seabee) way, and the way my Dad would have done it. I'm looking to do
it the _right_ way.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 22, 2015, 8:28:37 PM6/22/15
to
cinder blocks. gasket the sill to the block with something like
BluSeal to keep the sill from contacting the concrete. Use good S
mortar to bed and lay the block course. (has both lime and portland in
it)
J. Clarke
Jun 22, 2015, 10:25:54 PM6/22/15
to
In article <5r9hoa9am5lulpo3b...@4ax.com>,
cl...@snyder.on.ca says...
Geez, it's an effing shed, not Fort Knox. Cinder block is fine for the
purpose.
cl...@snyder.on.ca says...
purpose.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 22, 2015, 11:25:59 PM6/22/15
to
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 22:33:00 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Until they soak up moisture, freeze, and disintigrate.
For the difference in cost, use the right materials and do it once.
Cinder block just does not stand up to moisture nearly as well as a
quality concrete block.
For the difference in cost, use the right materials and do it once.
Cinder block just does not stand up to moisture nearly as well as a
quality concrete block.
HerHusband
Jun 23, 2015, 11:27:56 AM6/23/15
to
> Waiting for a concrete truck to arrive is not in the cards.
For a small job like that you could always mix your own on site, but
there's nothing wrong with block if you want to go that route.
>> Another option might be to add an overhang and/or gutter to the roof
>> so water is directed away from the building.
> It's on a side already--water goes over the wall at a right angle.
wall you are replacing? If so, how far does it extend from the building,
6", 12", etc.?
> One has and has been repaired, using the method that you suggest with
> flashing etc, but I don't really like that as a solution. Code says 8
> inches, it's in code for a reason.
afterall.
Actually, the solution jloomis mentioned with a pressure treated timber
would be a good option too. If you use PT lumber rated for ground contact
it would likely outlast you. Just put down some sill sealer between the
concrete and timber before bolting the timber down. You could step up to a
4x8 or larger if you want more ground clearance.
> In any case the decision is made--cut the anchors and replace them.
> One is placed so that I can't get a wider opening.
in the doorway below the surface of the slab then patch it for a wider door
opening? Or just grind it smooth with the slab, it's just a shed afterall.
Good luck with your project!
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
jloomis
Jun 23, 2015, 12:24:50 PM6/23/15
to
I thought the 4x6 pt was a quick easy fix.
Yes it would outlast the owner...
john
"HerHusband" wrote in message
news:XnsA4C2561861...@213.239.209.88...
Yes it would outlast the owner...
john
"HerHusband" wrote in message
news:XnsA4C2561861...@213.239.209.88...
J. Clarke
Jun 23, 2015, 5:46:04 PM6/23/15
to
In article <34khoahdqgoletag0...@4ax.com>,
Ok, please explain how to identify "quality concrete block" and where
one obtains such in Hartford.
one obtains such in Hartford.
J. Clarke
Jun 23, 2015, 5:53:28 PM6/23/15
to
In article <XnsA4C2561861...@213.239.209.88>,
unk...@unknown.com says...
mix a lot and have to mandhandle wet concrete en masse.
> >> Another option might be to add an overhang and/or gutter to the roof
> >> so water is directed away from the building.
> > It's on a side already--water goes over the wall at a right angle.
>
> ??? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is there an overhang above the
> wall you are replacing? If so, how far does it extend from the building,
> 6", 12", etc.?
The roof is sloped in a direction that causes the rain to run over a
different wall.
> > One has and has been repaired, using the method that you suggest with
> > flashing etc, but I don't really like that as a solution. Code says 8
> > inches, it's in code for a reason.
>
> It only needs to be 8" on the exterior. They put wood framing in basements
> afterall.
However the wall in question is on the exterior, therefore . . .
> Actually, the solution jloomis mentioned with a pressure treated
timber
> would be a good option too. If you use PT lumber rated for ground contact
> it would likely outlast you. Just put down some sill sealer between the
> concrete and timber before bolting the timber down. You could step up to a
> 4x8 or larger if you want more ground clearance.
Yeah, but the siding won't. And I don't trust a piece of tin flashing
as the only wall.
> > In any case the decision is made--cut the anchors and replace them.
> > One is placed so that I can't get a wider opening.
>
> I'm glad you have a solution that works for you. Could you grind the bolt
> in the doorway below the surface of the slab then patch it for a wider door
> opening? Or just grind it smooth with the slab, it's just a shed afterall.
If I'm going to cut one anchor I may as well cut them all and not have
to fart around with fillers on the ends to get the blocks aligned where
they need to be.
unk...@unknown.com says...
>
> > Waiting for a concrete truck to arrive is not in the cards.
>
> For a small job like that you could always mix your own on site, but
> there's nothing wrong with block if you want to go that route.
If I'm mixing concrete I'd rather mix a little and put down blocks than
> > Waiting for a concrete truck to arrive is not in the cards.
>
> For a small job like that you could always mix your own on site, but
> there's nothing wrong with block if you want to go that route.
mix a lot and have to mandhandle wet concrete en masse.
> >> Another option might be to add an overhang and/or gutter to the roof
> >> so water is directed away from the building.
> > It's on a side already--water goes over the wall at a right angle.
>
> ??? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is there an overhang above the
> wall you are replacing? If so, how far does it extend from the building,
> 6", 12", etc.?
different wall.
> > One has and has been repaired, using the method that you suggest with
> > flashing etc, but I don't really like that as a solution. Code says 8
> > inches, it's in code for a reason.
>
> It only needs to be 8" on the exterior. They put wood framing in basements
> afterall.
> Actually, the solution jloomis mentioned with a pressure treated
timber
> would be a good option too. If you use PT lumber rated for ground contact
> it would likely outlast you. Just put down some sill sealer between the
> concrete and timber before bolting the timber down. You could step up to a
> 4x8 or larger if you want more ground clearance.
as the only wall.
> > In any case the decision is made--cut the anchors and replace them.
> > One is placed so that I can't get a wider opening.
>
> I'm glad you have a solution that works for you. Could you grind the bolt
> in the doorway below the surface of the slab then patch it for a wider door
> opening? Or just grind it smooth with the slab, it's just a shed afterall.
to fart around with fillers on the ends to get the blocks aligned where
they need to be.
Lew Hodgett
Jun 23, 2015, 6:31:33 PM6/23/15
to
"J. Clarke" wrote:
> Ok, please explain how to identify "quality concrete block" and
> where
> one obtains such in Hartford.
--------------------------------------------
> Ok, please explain how to identify "quality concrete block" and
> where
> one obtains such in Hartford.
Try:
"concrete blocks hartford"
as a search string.
Lew
Doug Winterburn
Jun 23, 2015, 6:43:24 PM6/23/15
to
On 06/23/2015 02:53 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Ok, please explain how to identify "quality concrete block" and where
> one obtains such in Hartford.
>
>
From:
> Ok, please explain how to identify "quality concrete block" and where
> one obtains such in Hartford.
>
>
<http://www.waybuilder.net/free-ed/Courses/05%20Building%20and%20Contruction/050202%20Masonry/Masonry00.asp?iNum=02>
"Blocks are considered heavyweight or lightweight, depending on the
aggregate used in their production. A hollow load-bearing concrete block
8-by-8-by-16-inches nominal size weighs from 40 to 50 pounds when made
with heavyweight aggregate, such as sand, gravel, crushed stone, or
air-cooled slag. The same size block weighs only 25 to 35 pounds when
made with coal cinders, expanded shale, clay, slag, volcanic cinders, or
pumice. The choice of blocks depends on both the availability and
requirements of the intended structure."
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
J. Clarke
Jun 23, 2015, 6:46:22 PM6/23/15
to
In article <5589de43$0$44881$c3e8da3$dd96...@news.astraweb.com>,
sails...@verizon.net says...
And after that how does one determine that one or another purveyor of
same has the kind that have "quality"?
Don't try to be a curmudgeon, you're not any good at it.
sails...@verizon.net says...
same has the kind that have "quality"?
Don't try to be a curmudgeon, you're not any good at it.
HerHusband
Jun 23, 2015, 10:25:53 PM6/23/15
to
> If I'm mixing concrete I'd rather mix a little and put down blocks
> than mix a lot and have to mandhandle wet concrete en masse.
If you poured an area 6" deep and 8" tall, it would take about one 60 pound
> than mix a lot and have to mandhandle wet concrete en masse.
bag per foot. That's maybe 8-12 bags depending on the length of your wall.
Mix one, pour it in, mix the other, pour, continue. Start at one end and
work towards the other. As long as you don't take too long between bags
you'll be fine (assuming standard concrete and not quick setting).
I use one of those "party" ice buckets and a mixer on a strong electric
drill to make quick work of mixing concrete and mortar.
In any case, blocks will work fine too. Just be sure to use "mortar" and
not concrete to set them in.
>> Actually, the solution jloomis mentioned with a pressure treated
>> timber would be a good option too. If you use PT lumber rated for
>> ground contact it would likely outlast you. Just put down some sill
>> sealer between the concrete and timber before bolting the timber down.
>> You could step up to a 4x8 or larger if you want more ground
>> clearance.
> Yeah, but the siding won't. And I don't trust a piece of tin flashing
> as the only wall.
is 8" above grade. You could add flashing to the exterior of the beam if
you wish for added protection (and to keep water from working it's way
under the beam).
No worries though, sounds like you have a plan worked out.
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 23, 2015, 11:49:06 PM6/23/15
to
On Tue, 23 Jun 2015 17:53:15 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Don't know Hartford - but weight is a pretty good indication. Fly-ash
and cinders are a lot lighter than sand, rock, and portland.
and cinders are a lot lighter than sand, rock, and portland.
J. Clarke
Jul 3, 2015, 10:20:58 AM7/3/15
to
In article <5589e10a$0$29378$c3e8da3$e074...@news.astraweb.com>,
dlwint...@yahoo.com says...
and find out what the ones I have weigh--they feel heavy compared to the
25 pound box of mortar mix though, so I suspect they're OK.
dlwint...@yahoo.com says...
>
> On 06/23/2015 02:53 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > Ok, please explain how to identify "quality concrete block" and where
> > one obtains such in Hartford.
> >
> >
>
> From:
>
> <http://www.waybuilder.net/free-ed/Courses/05%20Building%20and%20Contruction/050202%20Masonry/Masonry00.asp?iNum=02>
>
> "Blocks are considered heavyweight or lightweight, depending on the
> aggregate used in their production. A hollow load-bearing concrete block
> 8-by-8-by-16-inches nominal size weighs from 40 to 50 pounds when made
> with heavyweight aggregate, such as sand, gravel, crushed stone, or
> air-cooled slag. The same size block weighs only 25 to 35 pounds when
> made with coal cinders, expanded shale, clay, slag, volcanic cinders, or
> pumice. The choice of blocks depends on both the availability and
> requirements of the intended structure."
Thanks, that's actually useful. Now if I can find the bathroom scale
> On 06/23/2015 02:53 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > Ok, please explain how to identify "quality concrete block" and where
> > one obtains such in Hartford.
> >
> >
>
> From:
>
> <http://www.waybuilder.net/free-ed/Courses/05%20Building%20and%20Contruction/050202%20Masonry/Masonry00.asp?iNum=02>
>
> "Blocks are considered heavyweight or lightweight, depending on the
> aggregate used in their production. A hollow load-bearing concrete block
> 8-by-8-by-16-inches nominal size weighs from 40 to 50 pounds when made
> with heavyweight aggregate, such as sand, gravel, crushed stone, or
> air-cooled slag. The same size block weighs only 25 to 35 pounds when
> made with coal cinders, expanded shale, clay, slag, volcanic cinders, or
> pumice. The choice of blocks depends on both the availability and
> requirements of the intended structure."
and find out what the ones I have weigh--they feel heavy compared to the
25 pound box of mortar mix though, so I suspect they're OK.
J. Clarke
Jul 3, 2015, 3:22:59 PM7/3/15
to
In article <XnsA4C2C5A502...@213.239.209.88>,
unk...@unknown.com says...
Well, got the crud and whatnot ground off of the concrete. Dewalt 18v
4-1/2 inch grinder and cup wheel from Home Despot do a fine job but make
sure you've got lots of battery packs because it goes through them
faster than they charge.
So today I drilled the holes for the sill anchors and rebar (two sill
anchors for each section of wall--one's 4 feet the other's 2 feet) with
rebar in each void space of the blocks. Debated rending an SDS hammer
for 60 bucks from Home Depot or buying one for 90 from Harbor Fright and
went with Harbor Fright--I figured it would do for 9 holes I needed to
dril and I'd have it later if I needed to drill a few more for some
reason. Went with the 10-amp version, comes in a nice case, with a
little tub of grease and a spare set of brushes. I'd never used a real
SDS hammer before and I'm impressed--a while back I drilled three half-
inch holes in that slab with a half-inch hammer drill and it took me
over an hour to do it it. This time it was four 1/2 inch and five 5/8
inch and the HF drilled them about as fast as I can drill studs. Only
complaint I have is that the depth bar doesn't lock very tight and I
ended up going a little deeper on a couple of holes than I intended.
Found out my blow nozzle had walked off so off to Home Despot for a blow
nozzle (HD is enough closer than HF for the gas to make up the
difference)--got the 7 piece kit 18249HOM which has a long tip perfect
for blowing out the holes--got a half-inch pipe brush from the plumbing
department to clean them out--word of advice, if you have both 1/2 and
5/8 holes, do all the 5/8 first--brand new the brush is a tight fit, but
once it's been in a couple of half inch holes it loosens up a lot in the
5/8.
Anyway, got the holes cleaned out, shot the Sika (more advice--keep
pumping it through the nozzle until it turns light gray before you use
it--they say "until it stops streaking" or some such but the dark gray
doesn't show any streaks for a long time and set the rebar and sill
anchors. The first piece of rebar went in with the dark gray, but by
the time I figured out what I'd done it was set anyway, at least enough
that that rebar wasn't coming out without more effort than I wanted to
put into it.
I'd never used a caulking-gun epoxy before. Having read that it took a
lot of effort with the caulking gun and being somewhat arthritic but too
cheap to spend for a powered gun, I did a bit of research and found that
they make guns with up to 26:1 thrust ratio, so I ordered one of those
(Newborn 375-XSP) off of Amazon <http://www.amazon.com/Newborn-375-XSP-
Revolving-Caulking-Cartridge/dp/B00CLVAA24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=
1435950692&sr=8-1&keywords=375-xsp> and it worked a treat for the
purpose. Sika squeezed out easy as you please with no effort at all.
Gonna be interesting to see how that gun works for other stuff. I
suspect it's going to prove to have been 35 bucks well spent.
unk...@unknown.com says...
4-1/2 inch grinder and cup wheel from Home Despot do a fine job but make
sure you've got lots of battery packs because it goes through them
faster than they charge.
So today I drilled the holes for the sill anchors and rebar (two sill
anchors for each section of wall--one's 4 feet the other's 2 feet) with
rebar in each void space of the blocks. Debated rending an SDS hammer
for 60 bucks from Home Depot or buying one for 90 from Harbor Fright and
went with Harbor Fright--I figured it would do for 9 holes I needed to
dril and I'd have it later if I needed to drill a few more for some
reason. Went with the 10-amp version, comes in a nice case, with a
little tub of grease and a spare set of brushes. I'd never used a real
SDS hammer before and I'm impressed--a while back I drilled three half-
inch holes in that slab with a half-inch hammer drill and it took me
over an hour to do it it. This time it was four 1/2 inch and five 5/8
inch and the HF drilled them about as fast as I can drill studs. Only
complaint I have is that the depth bar doesn't lock very tight and I
ended up going a little deeper on a couple of holes than I intended.
Found out my blow nozzle had walked off so off to Home Despot for a blow
nozzle (HD is enough closer than HF for the gas to make up the
difference)--got the 7 piece kit 18249HOM which has a long tip perfect
for blowing out the holes--got a half-inch pipe brush from the plumbing
department to clean them out--word of advice, if you have both 1/2 and
5/8 holes, do all the 5/8 first--brand new the brush is a tight fit, but
once it's been in a couple of half inch holes it loosens up a lot in the
5/8.
Anyway, got the holes cleaned out, shot the Sika (more advice--keep
pumping it through the nozzle until it turns light gray before you use
it--they say "until it stops streaking" or some such but the dark gray
doesn't show any streaks for a long time and set the rebar and sill
anchors. The first piece of rebar went in with the dark gray, but by
the time I figured out what I'd done it was set anyway, at least enough
that that rebar wasn't coming out without more effort than I wanted to
put into it.
I'd never used a caulking-gun epoxy before. Having read that it took a
lot of effort with the caulking gun and being somewhat arthritic but too
cheap to spend for a powered gun, I did a bit of research and found that
they make guns with up to 26:1 thrust ratio, so I ordered one of those
(Newborn 375-XSP) off of Amazon <http://www.amazon.com/Newborn-375-XSP-
Revolving-Caulking-Cartridge/dp/B00CLVAA24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=
1435950692&sr=8-1&keywords=375-xsp> and it worked a treat for the
purpose. Sika squeezed out easy as you please with no effort at all.
Gonna be interesting to see how that gun works for other stuff. I
suspect it's going to prove to have been 35 bucks well spent.
HerHusband
Jul 4, 2015, 1:52:46 AM7/4/15
to
> So today I drilled the holes for the sill anchors and rebar
> I'd never used a real SDS hammer before and I'm impressed--a while
> back I drilled three half- inch holes in that slab with a half-inch
> hammer drill and it took me over an hour to do it it.
Several years ago I had to drill some holes through a concrete basement
> back I drilled three half- inch holes in that slab with a half-inch
> hammer drill and it took me over an hour to do it it.
wall to replace a broken water line. All I had at the time was a standard
rotary drill. It took a couple hours and I burned up several masonry bits
in the process. I got the job done but I really didn't know what I was
doing.
I later bought a Dewalt hammer drill and discovered it worked much better
for drilling holes in concrete, but it was still very slow. OK if you
just need a few small holes, but inadequate for big jobs.
A couple years ago I needed to split several granite boulders so I
invested in a SDS rotary hammmer. Wow, what a difference. Makes easy work
of drilling large holes in concrete or stone. I wish I had bought one
years ago.
> Found out my blow nozzle had walked off so off to Home Despot for a
> blow nozzle
It's gotta be better than my first attempt... blowing into the hole and
having all the dust come back in my face. Learning experience, something
you only do once. :)
> I'd never used a caulking-gun epoxy before.
little squeeze tubes from the home centers. Nothing fancy, but it did the
job for a few holes.
> too cheap to spend for a powered gun, I did a bit of research and
> found that they make guns with up to 26:1 thrust ratio
but I haven't used either type.
I've always bought the best manual guns available at the home centers.
Haven't run into anything yet I couldn't squeeze out with them.
When we built our house I bought one of those large sized guns that we
used to lay down all the construction adhesive for the subfloor panels.
For big jobs that's a lot nicer than squeezing out a bunch of small
tubes.
> set the rebar and sill anchors.
anchors (the kind that expand in the hole to lock in place) would work
just as well as rebar. Could have saved the cost of the epoxy and fancy
caulking gun, but at least you have a new tool now! :)
Glad you're making progress with your shed.
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
J. Clarke
Jul 4, 2015, 2:21:25 AM7/4/15
to
In article <XnsA4CCE8BB84...@213.239.209.88>,
unk...@unknown.com says...
The Sika instructions say "blow, brush, blow, brush, blow". Figured if
I was going to use the stuff I may as well do it right. I added an
additional "brush, blow" to that and was still getting crud out.
Besides, once you get used to having a compressor with a blow nozzle you
miss it--I was going to have to replace the nozzle anyway.
> > I'd never used a caulking-gun epoxy before.
>
> Me either. The few times I've needed masonry epoxy I just bought the
> little squeeze tubes from the home centers. Nothing fancy, but it did the
> job for a few holes.
>
> > too cheap to spend for a powered gun, I did a bit of research and
> > found that they make guns with up to 26:1 thrust ratio
>
> I know they have air power caulking guns and cordless electric models,
> but I haven't used either type.
>
> I've always bought the best manual guns available at the home centers.
> Haven't run into anything yet I couldn't squeeze out with them.
>
> When we built our house I bought one of those large sized guns that we
> used to lay down all the construction adhesive for the subfloor panels.
> For big jobs that's a lot nicer than squeezing out a bunch of small
> tubes.
>
> > set the rebar and sill anchors.
>
> Kind of late now, but for your small job I would think concrete masonry
> anchors (the kind that expand in the hole to lock in place) would work
> just as well as rebar. Could have saved the cost of the epoxy and fancy
> caulking gun, but at least you have a new tool now! :)
I thought about those. I've used them before. Trouble is the local
suppliers (well, Fastenal did but I'd have had to take time off from
work to get to Fastenal) didn't have any threaded ones long enough to go
through the block and the sill with enough left to put a nut on. Once
the decision was made to set threaded rod for sill anchors, adding a
piece of rebar in each void space that didn't have an anchor didn't
really add much effort, and I've got way more epoxy than I need for the
job.
unk...@unknown.com says...
>
> > So today I drilled the holes for the sill anchors and rebar
> > I'd never used a real SDS hammer before and I'm impressed--a while
> > back I drilled three half- inch holes in that slab with a half-inch
> > hammer drill and it took me over an hour to do it it.
>
> Several years ago I had to drill some holes through a concrete basement
> wall to replace a broken water line. All I had at the time was a standard
> rotary drill. It took a couple hours and I burned up several masonry bits
> in the process. I got the job done but I really didn't know what I was
> doing.
>
> I later bought a Dewalt hammer drill and discovered it worked much better
> for drilling holes in concrete, but it was still very slow. OK if you
> just need a few small holes, but inadequate for big jobs.
>
> A couple years ago I needed to split several granite boulders so I
> invested in a SDS rotary hammmer. Wow, what a difference. Makes easy work
> of drilling large holes in concrete or stone. I wish I had bought one
> years ago.
>
> > Found out my blow nozzle had walked off so off to Home Despot for a
> > blow nozzle
>
> Wouldn't a shop vac work for cleaning out the holes?
>
> It's gotta be better than my first attempt... blowing into the hole and
> having all the dust come back in my face. Learning experience, something
> you only do once. :)
Yeah, I learned "don't lean over the hole".
> > So today I drilled the holes for the sill anchors and rebar
> > I'd never used a real SDS hammer before and I'm impressed--a while
> > back I drilled three half- inch holes in that slab with a half-inch
> > hammer drill and it took me over an hour to do it it.
>
> Several years ago I had to drill some holes through a concrete basement
> wall to replace a broken water line. All I had at the time was a standard
> rotary drill. It took a couple hours and I burned up several masonry bits
> in the process. I got the job done but I really didn't know what I was
> doing.
>
> I later bought a Dewalt hammer drill and discovered it worked much better
> for drilling holes in concrete, but it was still very slow. OK if you
> just need a few small holes, but inadequate for big jobs.
>
> A couple years ago I needed to split several granite boulders so I
> invested in a SDS rotary hammmer. Wow, what a difference. Makes easy work
> of drilling large holes in concrete or stone. I wish I had bought one
> years ago.
>
> > Found out my blow nozzle had walked off so off to Home Despot for a
> > blow nozzle
>
> Wouldn't a shop vac work for cleaning out the holes?
>
> It's gotta be better than my first attempt... blowing into the hole and
> having all the dust come back in my face. Learning experience, something
> you only do once. :)
The Sika instructions say "blow, brush, blow, brush, blow". Figured if
I was going to use the stuff I may as well do it right. I added an
additional "brush, blow" to that and was still getting crud out.
Besides, once you get used to having a compressor with a blow nozzle you
miss it--I was going to have to replace the nozzle anyway.
> > I'd never used a caulking-gun epoxy before.
>
> Me either. The few times I've needed masonry epoxy I just bought the
> little squeeze tubes from the home centers. Nothing fancy, but it did the
> job for a few holes.
>
> > too cheap to spend for a powered gun, I did a bit of research and
> > found that they make guns with up to 26:1 thrust ratio
>
> I know they have air power caulking guns and cordless electric models,
> but I haven't used either type.
>
> I've always bought the best manual guns available at the home centers.
> Haven't run into anything yet I couldn't squeeze out with them.
>
> When we built our house I bought one of those large sized guns that we
> used to lay down all the construction adhesive for the subfloor panels.
> For big jobs that's a lot nicer than squeezing out a bunch of small
> tubes.
>
> > set the rebar and sill anchors.
>
> Kind of late now, but for your small job I would think concrete masonry
> anchors (the kind that expand in the hole to lock in place) would work
> just as well as rebar. Could have saved the cost of the epoxy and fancy
> caulking gun, but at least you have a new tool now! :)
suppliers (well, Fastenal did but I'd have had to take time off from
work to get to Fastenal) didn't have any threaded ones long enough to go
through the block and the sill with enough left to put a nut on. Once
the decision was made to set threaded rod for sill anchors, adding a
piece of rebar in each void space that didn't have an anchor didn't
really add much effort, and I've got way more epoxy than I need for the
job.
DerbyDad03
Jul 4, 2015, 8:02:10 AM7/4/15
to
On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 1:52:46 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
> > So today I drilled the holes for the sill anchors and rebar
> > I'd never used a real SDS hammer before and I'm impressed--a while
> > back I drilled three half- inch holes in that slab with a half-inch
> > hammer drill and it took me over an hour to do it it.
>
> Several years ago I had to drill some holes through a concrete basement
> wall to replace a broken water line. All I had at the time was a standard
> rotary drill. It took a couple hours and I burned up several masonry bits
> in the process. I got the job done but I really didn't know what I was
> doing.
>
Many years ago a wise man told me "If you are working too hard, you are probably using the wrong tool."
> > So today I drilled the holes for the sill anchors and rebar
> > I'd never used a real SDS hammer before and I'm impressed--a while
> > back I drilled three half- inch holes in that slab with a half-inch
> > hammer drill and it took me over an hour to do it it.
>
> Several years ago I had to drill some holes through a concrete basement
> wall to replace a broken water line. All I had at the time was a standard
> rotary drill. It took a couple hours and I burned up several masonry bits
> in the process. I got the job done but I really didn't know what I was
> doing.
>
He then lend me his electric jack hammer. The drain I had to expose in my basement slab came quickly into view.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jul 4, 2015, 1:09:54 PM7/4/15
to
fellow - putting lag anchors into high strength concrete (about 40
years old) with a star chisel and a 3 lb hammer - - - - - - -
Martin Eastburn
Jul 4, 2015, 9:32:49 PM7/4/15
to
I feel it - used a star drill to cut a 2.5' x 2.5' hole through
a 6" thick concrete slab that was cured. Worse it was under a
shop table - limited work area. Bomb shelter - what else...
It was in the 50's.
Martin
a 6" thick concrete slab that was cured. Worse it was under a
shop table - limited work area. Bomb shelter - what else...
It was in the 50's.
Martin
HerHusband
Jul 5, 2015, 12:30:09 PM7/5/15
to
> Yeah, I learned "don't lean over the hole".
When drilling into rocks, I learned to wear safety glasses. When the drill
starts hammering into the first half inch or so chips of rock and dust fly
everywhere. Once the bit gets down in the hole a bit it's not so bad.
> Besides, once you get used to having a compressor with a blow nozzle
> you miss it--I was going to have to replace the nozzle anyway.
blow stuff out of the way but it just ends up somewhere else. I prefer
suction to vacuum up dust and debris. Keeps the dust out of my eyes and
nose and keeps my workspace cleaner.
> I thought about those. I've used them before. Trouble is the local
> suppliers (well, Fastenal did but I'd have had to take time off from
> work to get to Fastenal) didn't have any threaded ones long enough to
> go through the block and the sill with enough left to put a nut on.
But, you got the job done and have new tools. Now you'll just need more
projects in the future so you can use them again. :)
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
HerHusband
Jul 5, 2015, 12:36:15 PM7/5/15
to
>> Several years ago I had to drill some holes through a concrete
>> basement wall to replace a broken water line. All I had at the time
>> was a standard rotary drill. It took a couple hours and I burned up
>> several masonry bits in the process. I got the job done but I really
>> didn't know what I was doing.
> Many years ago a wise man told me "If you are working too hard, you
> are probably using the wrong tool."
Yep. We got the call at 8pm from my mother-in-law that a pipe had burst
>> basement wall to replace a broken water line. All I had at the time
>> was a standard rotary drill. It took a couple hours and I burned up
>> several masonry bits in the process. I got the job done but I really
>> didn't know what I was doing.
> Many years ago a wise man told me "If you are working too hard, you
> are probably using the wrong tool."
underground outside her house and was flooding her basement (she lives
about an hour away). We had the city turn off the water and dug it up in
the dark. I had to replace the old pipe that was running through the
basement wall. I'm not sure why but the concrete was over a foot thick at
that point. The only tool I had available at the time was a cheap rotary
drill and some chisels and masonry bits I picked up on the way to the in-
laws.
I knew I was doing something wrong, but had never done anything like that
before so I didn't have a clue.
That job would sure have been a lot easier with my rotary hammer. :)
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
HerHusband
Jul 5, 2015, 12:39:35 PM7/5/15
to
> Anything power assisted beats doing what I had to do as a young
> fellow - putting lag anchors into high strength concrete (about 40
> years old) with a star chisel and a 3 lb hammer
The local hardware store showed me one of those when I stopped to get more
> fellow - putting lag anchors into high strength concrete (about 40
> years old) with a star chisel and a 3 lb hammer
masonry bits. I'm like "yeah right, you've got to be kidding"... :)
In hindsight, it probably wouldn't have been any worse than a spinning
masonry bit. Without the hammer action it's practically worthless.
Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
J. Clarke
Jul 11, 2015, 4:31:34 PM7/11/15
to
In article <XnsA4CE60A82E...@213.239.209.88>,
unk...@unknown.com says...
One way or another the blocks are down and filled. I started in on the
carpentry today, got one sill plate down, was fixing to do the other one
when I realized that the #$%^&*ing MORON who built the thing had ended
the wall on a void space in the crosswall. Two inches longer and it
would have been on a stud, but NOOOOOOOO. And the slab is of course
poured the same two inches short and the roof ends the same two inches
short, so building it out would be a major operation.
Long term I need to open the wall up and add a stud in the right place.
Short term I can think of several ways to rig it.
Just venting.
unk...@unknown.com says...
carpentry today, got one sill plate down, was fixing to do the other one
when I realized that the #$%^&*ing MORON who built the thing had ended
the wall on a void space in the crosswall. Two inches longer and it
would have been on a stud, but NOOOOOOOO. And the slab is of course
poured the same two inches short and the roof ends the same two inches
short, so building it out would be a major operation.
Long term I need to open the wall up and add a stud in the right place.
Short term I can think of several ways to rig it.
Just venting.
HerHusband
Jul 12, 2015, 1:32:24 AM7/12/15
to
> One way or another the blocks are down and filled. I started in on
> the carpentry today, got one sill plate down, was fixing to do the
> other one when I realized that the #$%^&*ing MORON who built the thing
> had ended the wall on a void space in the crosswall. Two inches
> longer and it would have been on a stud, but NOOOOOOOO. And the slab
> is of course poured the same two inches short and the roof ends the
> same two inches short, so building it out would be a major operation.
> Long term I need to open the wall up and add a stud in the right
> place. Short term I can think of several ways to rig it.
Assuming you have some kind of plywood or OSB sheathing in the cross wall,
> the carpentry today, got one sill plate down, was fixing to do the
> other one when I realized that the #$%^&*ing MORON who built the thing
> had ended the wall on a void space in the crosswall. Two inches
> longer and it would have been on a stud, but NOOOOOOOO. And the slab
> is of course poured the same two inches short and the roof ends the
> same two inches short, so building it out would be a major operation.
> Long term I need to open the wall up and add a stud in the right
> place. Short term I can think of several ways to rig it.
I really don't think you have a problem. Driving several deck screws long
enough to penetrate the sheathing should be way more strength than you'll
need.
However, if it bothers you, you could drill holes and install several
toggle bolts. Short of a hurricane or tornado, the new wall won't be going
anywhere.
Glad you're making progress.
Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
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