How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?

[Michael]

What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.

Thanks.

[Mike Marlow]

Michael wrote:

> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>

Simple - don't use OSB.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[John Grossbohlin]

"Michael" wrote in message
news:e3ab57e4-f2ab-4708...@googlegroups.com...

>What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB?
>It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.

Well, if it's got to be OSB, and assuming it is for indoor use, skim coat it
with drywall joint compound and sand smooth... then prime and paint.

John

[Ivan Vegvary]

Michael, I use OSB everywhere in my huge shop. Skim coat with drywall compound is extremely fast and you save lots of money on paint. My guess is that it takes about 3 times as much paint to do nude OSB.
Ivan Vegvary

[Mike Marlow]

Ugh! That will certainly work, but for my money, it's way too much work
compared to simply using a better material.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[woodchucker]

On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> Thanks.
>

The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply.
There is no way to make a rough surface look good.

It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you
just can't do it.

OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, it
doesn't hold nails or screws real well.

It's been misused by builders over and over. My slate floor was laid on
top of it... The builder was an idiot.

And that's how I feel about it... :-)

--
Jeff

[Bob La Londe]

"Michael" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3ab57e4-f2ab-4708...@googlegroups.com...

> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted
> OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> Thanks.

Indoors or outdoors? If outdoors stucco. If indoors a hopper gun and mud.

[Lew Hodgett]

RE: Subject

What is the old saying about making a silk purse from a pig's ear?

You can't get there from here.

Lew

[Michael]

I should have been more specific. Outdoor. But as Mike says, maybe I should just use a decent ply.

Thanks.

[Spalted Walt]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael <michael...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB?

The secret is to NOT paint OSB, only stain, BLO, or clear poly OSB.


http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-table.jpg

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-chair.jpg

http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126323.jpg

http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6665359/il_570xN.346149090.jpg

http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126863.jpg

http://www.archilovers.com/p87550/in-love-with-osb?sMiniImg=0

[woodchucker]

I don't share the love of OSB...

--
Jeff

[woodchucker]

Considering it is used for sheathing and is glued up wafers... you would
think it does well outdoors. But I have found it rots fast, blows up
when water gets into it... (considering it's mostly glue I don't
understand that).... Also I think the sun will cause it to fail if not
treated. I can't be sure, but I have seen OSB turn black and just flake
away, my suspicion was sun and heat.. but it could have been for other
reasons... I'm not sure... so I don't consider it a good outdoor wood,
without protection.

--
Jeff

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 19:37:36 -0400, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

That's just sick!

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

Cover it with Masonite first???

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Or just put siding on it. Aluminum or vinyl, or even hardy-board or
Masonite hardboard siding. ANYTHING looks better than a 4'X8' straw
bale.

[Michael]

Once you see it, you can't un-see it.

[Michael]

It was going to side my solar wood kiln, so maybe the heat inside (polycarbonate surface plus painted black inside) makes the material even less desirable if heat affects its structural properties. I'm going to put the kiln behind the garage where it's not going to be seen very often, but I still don't like the look of painted OSB even back there. My materials list calls for 5 sheets of 4x8, so I'm looking at an additional cost of about $50.00 if I use good plywood.

[-MIKE-]

Yeah, that. ^^^^^


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>> cheap-looking.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way to
> make a rough surface look good.
>
> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you
> just can't do it.
>
> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly,

Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material aren't
supposed to stay wet.

> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>

I'm curious, when's the last time you used it?
I have it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax
screws designed for particle board.

In my opinion, no ply product holds nails well and they shouldn't be
used when screws are available.

[-MIKE-]

Those are some of the ugliest examples of "furniture" I've seen in my
life.
And I've been to Ikea.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 17:29:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael

Youl save that in paint.

[woodchucker]

On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>> cheap-looking.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way to
>> make a rough surface look good.
>>
>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you
>> just can't do it.
>>
>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly,
>
> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material aren't
> supposed to stay wet.
>
>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>
>
> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it?
> I have it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax
> screws designed for particle board.

Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily worked
with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few sheets of OSB in
the basement, that I am waiting to use on some garbage project. I got it
for $1 and figured if I ever need a shipping crate it would be the tkt.

>
> In my opinion, no ply product holds nails well and they shouldn't be
> used when screws are available.
>
>

I would agree.


--
Jeff

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>>> cheap-looking.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way
>>> to make a rough surface look good.
>>>
>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold...
>>> you just can't do it.
>>>
>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly,
>>
>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material
>> aren't supposed to stay wet.
>>
>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>
>>
>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my shop
>> and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws designed
>> for particle board.
>
> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily
> worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few sheets of
> OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some garbage
> project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a shipping crate
> it would be the tkt.
>

That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late
80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is
much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it
to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago.

If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.

[woodchucker]

So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not
recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason.

But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that
doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw, it
just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK suits.
The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there are many
sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The company says we
don't guarantee the look, but the product is cracking, chalking, etc...
why would you buy a product that in less than a year is failing.
Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I will pay 4 times for. I have
already started replacing sheathing. I have aluminum siding. So I have
to replace sheathing, wrap, siding... And who's to pay.. I don't have
that problem with PLY. Are the manufacturers going to pay... hell no.
They sell it and walk away...

--
Jeff

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 8:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
> They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
> and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.

This^

... big fan of Advantech for subfloors, particularly over crawlspaces:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/Framing?authkey=Gv1sRgCM2M672etqm4iAE#5411822041576783458


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[-MIKE-]

You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor
and tile and will never use cement board again.

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:

> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, it
> doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>
> It's been misused by builders over and over. My slate floor was laid on
> top of it... The builder was an idiot.
>
> And that's how I feel about it... :-)

Pretty much how I feel about OSB as well. As a builder, I will not use
OSB for sheathing or roof decking, period.

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 9:53 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 8:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
>> They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
>> and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.
>
> This^
>
> ... big fan of Advantech for subfloors, particularly over crawlspaces:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/Framing?authkey=Gv1sRgCM2M672etqm4iAE#5411822041576783458
>

Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 9:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, it
>> doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>
>> It's been misused by builders over and over. My slate floor was
>> laid on top of it... The builder was an idiot.
>>
>> And that's how I feel about it... :-)
>
> Pretty much how I feel about OSB as well. As a builder, I will not
> use OSB for sheathing or roof decking, period.
>

I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically
Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?

[woodchucker]

Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go
figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?

--
Jeff

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>

> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!

I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
when they are done to precision.

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.

Amen ...

> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor
> and tile and will never use cement board again.

Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is heard,
a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup of layers
between floors is an issue.

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 10:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go
> figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?

And still do. Builder's use it for one main reason ... it's cheaper than
alternative products.

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!
>
> I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
> when they are done to precision.
>

And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-)

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 10:00 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 9:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>
>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, it
>>> doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>
>>> It's been misused by builders over and over. My slate floor was
>>> laid on top of it... The builder was an idiot.
>>>
>>> And that's how I feel about it... :-)
>>
>> Pretty much how I feel about OSB as well. As a builder, I will not
>> use OSB for sheathing or roof decking, period.
>>
>
> I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically
> Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?

Technically ... like a Maserati is an automobile. ;)

[Morgans]

"-MIKE-" <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote

> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late
> 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is
> much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it
> to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago.
>
> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
> They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
> and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.

If you were to in any way compare OSB and Advantec (engineered subfloor
composite board) I would argue most strenuously. They are not the same
product. Not even close. In the first place, OSB is made cheaply to cover
large areas economically, where strength is not key. The engineered
subfloor is very strong, and used because it does not suffer from
delaminating and voids as modern plywood seems to suffer. It is also quite
expensive, in comparison to OSB.

Advantec is still not to be used under tile because no wood is rated for
direct contact with masonry unless is is treated, and Advantec is not. Wood
also does not have the same coefficients of expansion as tile, and therefore
is not a good choice of material for bonding to masonry. Advantec, however,
shows very little signs of swelling or coming apart in flakes when exposed
to the weather, even for long periods of time. I have seen it weather for
nearly a year with very little changes other than discoloration.
--
Jim in NC


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 10:11 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>
> Amen ...
>
>> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between
>> sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again.
>
> Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is
> heard, a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup of
> layers between floors is an issue.
>

I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers
are carrying it now, with better prices and availability.

[woodchucker]

On 4/11/2014 11:14 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 10:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go
>> figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?
>
> And still do. Builder's use it for one main reason ... it's cheaper than
> alternative products.
>

Yes, but they put it under slate in the entry way. So it's all cracking.
I already partially repaired it once b4, it's still continuing, so at
some time I will lift and replace the whole area and figure what we'll
put down after. If tile or stone I'll use cement board.. but I am about
to do my kitchen floor, removing the subfloor and putting cement board
down there.

The wife does not want to upgrade the kitchen, only the floor, which I
think is a mistake... might as well do it all, but SWMBO rules... a
happy wife.....

--
Jeff

[Morgans]

"woodchucker" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote

> Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go
> figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?

Let me guess. A laver of 1/2" OSB applied to the joists or trusses, then 5
/8" MDF underlayment (sawdust board)?

That was a popular cheap way to do it back then. I never liked it, and
never did it that way.

[-MIKE-]

As I mentioned to Karl, they are all Oriented Strand Board.
As he said, a Maserati is an automobile, too. So it a Buick. :-)

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 10:18 PM, Morgans wrote:
> If you were to in any way compare OSB and Advantec (engineered subfloor
> composite board) I would argue most strenuously. They are not the same
> product. Not even close.

No, you are entirely correct they are not the same product.

That said, Advantech is indeed technically an "oriented strand board"
(OSB) product in the way it is manufactured, just like both are
technically "plywood".

But what a difference ... ;)

[John Grossbohlin]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:liab7u$hon$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!
>
>> I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
>> when they are done to precision.
>
>And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-)

The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension
lumber...

[Morgans]

"-MIKE-" <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote

> I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically
> Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?

Only in the same way that all chip type engineered lumber products do have
the strands oriented. For technical definitions, OSB is the stuff people
use for roof sheeting and wall sheeting that is not tongue and groove. The
products like Advantec and Goldbond are engineered wood products for floor
use and are tongue and groove. The chips and ratio of fine particles are
greatly different, and so is the compression and the type of glue.

So no, Advantec and their ilk are not OSB.

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 10:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers
> are carrying it now, with better prices and availability.

Yep, but not all stores have it on the shelf with regularity like they
do with Hardi; and the last I paid for it was around $1.60sf, which can
eat a big hole in a tight tile budget.

[woodchucker]

On 4/11/2014 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 10:11 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>>
>> Amen ...
>>
>>> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between
>>> sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again.
>>
>> Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is
>> heard, a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup of
>> layers between floors is an issue.
>>
>
> I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers
> are carrying it now, with better prices and availability.
>
>

Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the
weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it
would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor
giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break.

So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked
out porcelain tiles..

--
Jeff

[-MIKE-]

Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?

[woodchucker]

On 4/11/2014 11:17 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!
>>
>> I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
>> when they are done to precision.
>>
>
> And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-)
>
>

Yea, my house had an area w/o a ply sister-ed in... I had to cut the
pipe, reinforce the joist, then use a coupler to join the waste pipe
back in.. I think my builders got their license from the cracker jack box...


--
Jeff

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 10:29 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "-MIKE-" <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote
>
>> I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because
>> technically Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?
>
> Only in the same way that all chip type engineered lumber products do
> have the strands oriented. For technical definitions, OSB is the
> stuff people use for roof sheeting and wall sheeting that is not
> tongue and groove. The products like Advantec and Goldbond are
> engineered wood products for floor use and are tongue and groove.
> The chips and ratio of fine particles are greatly different, and so
> is the compression and the type of glue.
>
> So no, Advantec and their ilk are not OSB.

I know all that, but technically and in the industry, they are. Not the
same animal as has been more that adequately explained in this thread,
but OSB nonetheless.

I don't like to call it that, either, because it's so superior a product
and I don't like to "insult" it. :-)

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:

> Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the
> weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it
> would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor
> giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break.

Actually, and IME, there is less chance of cracks with Ditra than with
other methods. AAMOF, that is one of the advantages/selling points of
the product.

I particularly like using it, as I stated, when there is an issue with
floor heights from one room to the next.

> So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
> issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked
> out porcelain tiles..

I'm not one to run with the herd in building circles, and since I don't
use common OSB flooring, I could not answer that from personal
experience, but both builder acquaintances, and my tile crew, say they
do it all the time.

[John Grossbohlin]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:liac5m$jck$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>> The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension
>> lumber...

>Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?

No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4
web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in
similar fire conditions.

[woodchucker]

On 4/11/2014 11:21 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "woodchucker" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote
>
>> Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor.
>> Go figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?
>
> Let me guess. A laver of 1/2" OSB applied to the joists or trusses,
> then 5 /8" MDF underlayment (sawdust board)?
>
> That was a popular cheap way to do it back then. I never liked it, and
> never did it that way.

OSB on top of OSB. :-(

You tell me.. can you hear me screaming.
Let me tell you about my foundation/sill. The sill plate is not on the
foundation.. it wanders off of it.
The brick on the outside is tell tale... it is behind the foundation..

We are the second owners... I didn't notice all the defects until I
moved in...

Electrical... disaster.

This was a highly respected builder... I have no idea how they made it..
They are out of business now.. When everything fell apart the owner retired.


--
Jeff

[woodchucker]

On 4/11/2014 11:39 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the
>> weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it
>> would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor
>> giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break.
>
> Actually, and IME, there is less chance of cracks with Ditra than with
> other methods. AAMOF, that is one of the advantages/selling points of
> the product.
>
> I particularly like using it, as I stated, when there is an issue with
> floor heights from one room to the next.
>
>> So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
>> issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked
>> out porcelain tiles..
>
> I'm not one to run with the herd in building circles, and since I don't
> use common OSB flooring, I could not answer that from personal
> experience, but both builder acquaintances, and my tile crew, say they
> do it all the time.
>

The price for the SD is higher than the per tile price that she picked
out... damn...


--
Jeff

[-MIKE-]

I can't explain it better than their website, but that never stopped me
before. :-)

Again, it must be repeated, mortar and tile should never be installed
directly on any wood product. I don't care how "advanced' it is. If it
expands and contracts at all, it's too much.

Cement-board is good but it doesn't really decouple and if your
sub-floor/joists have much deflection the grout lines will still crack
and you may get tiles separating from the mortar. The real purpose of
cement board is to receive any moisture that penetrates the tile and
mortor without soaking it up and swelling like a wood product will.

Ditra sheeting acts to decouple the subfloor from the mortar. Moisture
cannot penetrate. More so, however, it also allows
expansion/contraction above and below at different rates without any
friction or contact.
If there's too much deflection in the floor, Schluter suggests an
engineered sub-floor before the Ditra. But, I've known tile
contractors who use it on very unstable floors with great success and
long term durability.

[Morgans]

"Swingman" <k...@nospam.com> wrote

> That said, Advantech is indeed technically an "oriented strand board"
> (OSB) product in the way it is manufactured, just like both are
> technically "plywood".
>

Nope. Strand board is not plywood. Plywood is layers of veneers, usually
with alternating layers at right angles to each other. Not a stack of chips
oriented and glued and compressed.

It is all engineered wood products. OSB is manufactured to a totally
different set of standards to the strands that are oriented in the
engineered product known as Advantec. There are strands, but the lengths
and widths of the chips are different, with Advantec strands being much
longer and more narrow. They also have a much higher percentage of strands
oriented in the long direction in Advantec compared to OSB.

Tell me this, as the final test. You go into a lumberyard. You ask for
some OSB. You going to get OSB sheathing, or you getting Advantec?

I rest my case.

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated
> 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber
> joists in similar fire conditions.

And, IME, great pains are taken in modern building science and
structural engineering/building codes to mitigate that as an issue to
basically a moot point.

[-MIKE-]

On 4/11/14, 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:

> Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about
> the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile
> (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it
> is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to
> break.
>
> So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
> issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife
> picked out porcelain tiles..
>

I'm not sure I was clear in this, but the Ditra is absolutely designed
and purposed to go right over any sub-floor surface.
If going down over a wood product (ply, OSB, engineered sub-floor), they
recommend a latex additive to the mortar that will attach the Ditra to
the sub-floor. That's the only stipulation.

[-MIKE-]

Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it.
A fire is a fire. Shit's going down. :-)

[Swingman]

On 4/11/2014 10:55 PM, Morgans wrote:

> Tell me this, as the final test. You go into a lumberyard. You ask for
> some OSB. You going to get OSB sheathing, or you getting Advantec?
>
> I rest my case.

You would be resting on shaky ground as far as building codes go, which
is where the rubber meets the road.

FACT: for building science and code purposes both are considered the
same material, and the term "wood structural panel" is used as a
singular description for either.

Sorry, Bubba ... but there is simply no room for your argument on that
score.

[-MIKE-]

You have to take everything into consideration. How much is cement
board and will it suffice for the floor it's going on? If it will and
it's cheaper, great.

Schluter systems are a bit pricy, now, but getting more competitive
every year. I equate it to engineered lumber. It was way too expensive
at first, but the price of solid wood lumber is catching up quick.

By the way, the finished surface of any product usually is the cheapest
part of a quality installation no? Look at paint.

[Leon]

On 4/11/2014 2:26 PM, Michael wrote:
> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> Thanks.
>



I would think multiple layers of primer and sanded between each coat
until you get a smooth surface and then add the paint.

It would probably be less expensive to get a smoother material to work
with to begin with.

[Mike Marlow]

Agreed. Any quality building primer is going to cost more (with the amount
of build required), and perform more poorly (with the amount of build
required), than just getting the right material to start with. Likewise for
the other suggestions about laying in fillers of some sort (whether plastic
or spackle). Hell - why bother? Too much time, too much expense, just
plain not worth the effort.

Lew said it right - silk purse, sow's ear...

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Leon]

Well, what we don't know is what the application may be.. We can't make a
worth while suggestion as there is not enough information. I could
picture the OSB already permanently in place and the possibility of not
being able to fit a better material over it.

[dadiOH]

"Swingman" <k...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:9padnXMLTdUtMtXO...@giganews.com

> On 4/11/2014 10:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> > Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a
> > good subfloor. Go figure. Did the OSB manufacturers
> > back then advertise it as such?
>

> And still do. Builder's use it for one main reason ...
> it's cheaper than alternative products.

Exactly so.

I recently needed some sheet goods for a project. I could buy ply for
almost $40 per sheet or OSB for $11. I would have preferred ply but for my
use it didn't much matter...skim coat the OSB with drywall mud, sand with a
1/2 sheet sander, prime and paint and it is fine. And I am $100+ richer.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[dadiOH]

"Spalted Walt" <res...@newsgroup.pls> wrote in message
news:69tgk91la9k7dadjb...@4ax.com

> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael
> <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't
> > look like painted OSB?
>

> The secret is to NOT paint OSB, only stain, BLO, or clear
> poly OSB.
>
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-table.jpg
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-chair.jpg
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126323.jpg
>
> http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6665359/il_570xN.346149090.jpg
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126863.jpg
>
> http://www.archilovers.com/p87550/in-love-with-osb?sMiniImg=0

Not bad looking but how do you get rid of the splinters?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I think he said it's an outdoor wood drying "kiln" behind the house
that he just wants to look decent.

I's just use board and batten lumber siding and let it weather grey.

[John Grossbohlin]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:liadp3$lni$2...@speranza.aioe.org...

>>> Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?
>
>> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated
>> 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber
>> joists in similar fire conditions.
>
>Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it.
>A fire is a fire. Shit's going down. :-)

In some areas fire departments will withdraw from, or not even enter,
buildings with wood truss or I-joist construction as the risk of falling
through the floor is greater. In those cases the losses tend to run higher.
There was an extensive article on this some years ago in, as I recall,
Journal of Light Construction (or maybe under it's previous name New England
Builder). The article talked about roof structures also as the same problem
exists there.

[John Grossbohlin]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:li9j2f$ju$1...@dont-email.me...

>John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:e3ab57e4-f2ab-4708...@googlegroups.com...

>
>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>

>> Well, if it's got to be OSB, and assuming it is for indoor use, skim
>> coat it with drywall joint compound and sand smooth... then prime and
>> paint.
>> John

>Ugh! That will certainly work, but for my money, it's way too much work
>compared to simply using a better material.

Which is why I had the qualifying clause "if it's got to be OSB" ;~)

John

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:

>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look
>>>>>>> like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>>>>>> cheap-looking.
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no
>>>>>> way to make a rough surface look good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into
>>>>>> gold... you just can't do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real
>>>>>> quickly,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material
>>>>> aren't supposed to stay wet.
>>>>>
>>>>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my
>>>>> shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws
>>>>> designed for particle board.
>>>>
>>>> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily
>>>> worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few
>>>> sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some
>>>> garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a
>>>> shipping crate it would be the tkt.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the
>>> late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out
>>> now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But
>>> I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years
>>> ago.
>>>
>>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them
>>> out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to
>>> work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water
>>> resistant.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not
>> recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason.
>>
>> But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that
>> doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw,
>> it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK
>> suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there
>> are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The
>> company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is
>> cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less
>> than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I
>> will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I
>> have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding...
>> And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the
>> manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away...

>>
>
>You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.

>That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor
>and tile and will never use cement board again.

I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There are
a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all come up
in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of the plastic
shower stall). I've had very good results with Hardiboard under tile.
Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 22:55:16 -0500, Swingman <k...@nospam.com> wrote:

>On 4/11/2014 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated
>> 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber
>> joists in similar fire conditions.
>
>And, IME, great pains are taken in modern building science and
>structural engineering/building codes to mitigate that as an issue to
>basically a moot point.

What steps? Fire resistant OSB? My current house has the I-beam floor
joists. I see nothing protecting them at all. They do seem to be
pretty susceptible to fire damage. Once the bottom rail is
compromised, there isn't much left to hold up the floor.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 23:00:36 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>On 4/11/14, 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:liac5m$jck$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>>>> The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension
>>>> lumber...
>>
>>> Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?
>>
>> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated
>> 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber
>> joists in similar fire conditions.
>>
>>
>
>Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it.
>A fire is a fire. Shit's going down. :-)

Yeah, but it's a matter of whether it goes down before or after we get
out. ;-) The fire department's job is to protect the neighbor's
house.

[Swingman]

On 4/12/2014 9:47 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

> In some areas fire departments will withdraw from, or not even enter,
> buildings with wood truss or I-joist construction as the risk of falling
> through the floor is greater. In those cases the losses tend to run
> higher. There was an extensive article on this some years ago in, as I
> recall, Journal of Light Construction (or maybe under it's previous name
> New England Builder). The article talked about roof structures also as
> the same problem exists there.

Wood burns, steel twists and buckles, bricks and stones tumble and fall.

St Louis burned to the ground in 1849 and subsequently mandated that all
structures be made of brick and stone ... they still had fires and the
necessity for a FD.

Everything in life is a compromise to some degree, and it is rare to
experience any benefit without some attendant risk.

Shit will happen, but most of us do the best we can to make housing both
safe and affordable by assessing the risk versus benefit of those two
components.

just my tuppence. ;)

[-MIKE-]

FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.

[-MIKE-]

If it's *really* a problem, then why don't codes require new home
construction to have sprinkler systems installed? My friend's house
came with them.

[woodchucker]

Yep, here in nj all commercial buildings must have a sign showing the
type of roof construction. One fire dept lost many fireman (I think 5)
when the roof collapsed. I'm not sure it would have made a difference
for that fire, as they had to know in a flat roof that it was a truss
roof..

--
Jeff

[Michael]

Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?

[Michael]

On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:26:34 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
>
>
> Thanks.

Update: A guy was selling 1/2 inch plywood for 9 bucks a sheet. No need for OSB for this project. Thanks.

[woodchucker]

Damn that's a good price?? Where.. I need to make a blast cabinet for
sand blasting. I wouldn't even use the OSB for that...

--
Jeff

[Michael]

Milwaukee, WI. He had only one more sheet to sell. Thank you, Craigslist.

[Morgans]

"Michael" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote

>> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>
> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?

Make sure you are understanding what material we are talking about.

Hardboard is masonite type stuff, sometimes used as pegboard or as a base in
making paneling. Don't use that.

Hardiboard is not anything, but it is close to describing the real product
we are talking about.

The name of the stuff we are talking about is called hardibacker. Brand
name. If you use that, then the answer is as follows.

Sure. That is exactly what it is designed for.

The key is to:
Use a material that allows some movement in relation to the wood underneath
it.
Use a material that allows the mastic or grout to grab onto.
Has a co-efficient of expansion similar to the stone or tile being installed
on it.
Does not deteriorate over time as it is exposed to the moisture always
present when in contact with masonry products.

Meet those requirements, and you have a winner. Hardibacker or cement
board, both qualify.

[Michael]

Awesome. Good to know. Thanks.

[-MIKE-]

> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>

Absolutely. But there's always a chance I'm reading their specs wrong.
Best thing to do is to call their tech support and ask them their
recommendation for the specifics of your application.

People often mistakenly presume that the purpose of cement board is to
fortify or strengthen a sub-floor with too much deflection. That is not
its purpose at all and it would be very poor at doing so.

Remember, the cement is serving two purposes. To uncouple the tile job
from the sub-floor so they they can expand/contract independently of
each other. And to prevent swelling (much greater and faster movement
than seasonal expansion) of the sub-floor from moisture/water soaked
into it from the wet environment above it.

When I removed the old tile from my bathroom before our remodel, it was
still is pristine condition after 20 years. It consisted of 4x4 tiles
on a thick self-leveling cement bed, on top of tar paper. The tar paper
was enough to allow independent movement of the sub-floor and mortor
bed, while the cement bed soaked up any moisture allowing it to
evaporate without soaking into the sub-floor.

[-MIKE-]

On 4/12/14, 3:05 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "Michael" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>>
>> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>
>
> Make sure you are understanding what material we are talking about.
>
> Hardboard is masonite type stuff, sometimes used as pegboard or as a
> base in making paneling. Don't use that.
>
> Hardiboard is not anything, but it is close to describing the real
> product we are talking about.
>
> The name of the stuff we are talking about is called hardibacker.
> Brand name. If you use that, then the answer is as follows.
>
> Sure. That is exactly what it is designed for.
>
> The key is to: Use a material that allows some movement in relation
> to the wood underneath it. Use a material that allows the mastic or
> grout to grab onto. Has a co-efficient of expansion similar to the
> stone or tile being installed on it. Does not deteriorate over time
> as it is exposed to the moisture always present when in contact with
> masonry products.
>
> Meet those requirements, and you have a winner. Hardibacker or
> cement board, both qualify.

Correct.
If anyone in this thread thought we were referring to the dark brown
paper press-board they use to make pegboard sheet from, then disregard
this entire thread! :-)

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com

[Michael]

Thanks for the info. That makes the bathroom project much more do-able. The internets was useful today.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:25:00 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

That would save 1/4", but I thought that was for walls (over
sheetrock). Anyway, I wanted to stiffen the floors, too. Worked
great. I'll probably use it again, on this house. I have four
bathrooms and a laundry to do (I hate vinyl flooring).

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 16:05:41 -0400, "Morgans"
<jsmo...@charterJUNK.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Michael" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>>
>> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>
>
>Make sure you are understanding what material we are talking about.
>
>Hardboard is masonite type stuff, sometimes used as pegboard or as a base in
>making paneling. Don't use that.
>
>Hardiboard is not anything, but it is close to describing the real product
>we are talking about.
>
>The name of the stuff we are talking about is called hardibacker. Brand
>name. If you use that, then the answer is as follows.

Yes. Thank you. I was thinking about Hardiboard ("no, that's not
right - that's the clapboard stuff") and then Hardipanel ("no, that's
the stuff for board-and-batten"), must be... <rats!>

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 15:30:22 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>On 4/12/14, 12:30 PM, Michael wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:25:00 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>> Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.
>>>
>>
>> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>>
>
>Absolutely. But there's always a chance I'm reading their specs wrong.
>Best thing to do is to call their tech support and ask them their
>recommendation for the specifics of your application.
>
>People often mistakenly presume that the purpose of cement board is to
>fortify or strengthen a sub-floor with too much deflection. That is not
>its purpose at all and it would be very poor at doing so.

Actually, it works very well for that purpose. It won't fix a rotten
subfloor but it is as good or better than any other sheet goods for
the purpose. The recommendations I've seen are a minimum of 1-1/4" of
subflooring under tile. 3/4" ply with 1/2" Hardibacker works.

>Remember, the cement is serving two purposes. To uncouple the tile job
>from the sub-floor so they they can expand/contract independently of
>each other. And to prevent swelling (much greater and faster movement
>than seasonal expansion) of the sub-floor from moisture/water soaked
>into it from the wet environment above it.
>
>When I removed the old tile from my bathroom before our remodel, it was
>still is pristine condition after 20 years. It consisted of 4x4 tiles
>on a thick self-leveling cement bed, on top of tar paper. The tar paper
>was enough to allow independent movement of the sub-floor and mortor
>bed, while the cement bed soaked up any moisture allowing it to
>evaporate without soaking into the sub-floor.

Interesting. I would have thought the tar paper would allow too much
movement.

[k...@attt.bizz]

It's a lot of work but none of it is all that difficult. Floor tile
is easily a DIYer project. Wall tile is a bit more difficult, IMO.
Gravity is working in your favor on the floor. ;-)

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:29:27 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

wrote:

>On 4/12/14, 10:11 AM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 23:00:36 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/11/14, 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message
>>>> news:liac5m$jck$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>>>> The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than
>>>>>> dimension lumber...
>>>>
>>>>> Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?
>>>>
>>>> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction...
>>>> plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before
>>>> dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it. A fire is a
>>> fire. Shit's going down. :-)
>>
>> Yeah, but it's a matter of whether it goes down before or after we
>> get out. ;-) The fire department's job is to protect the
>> neighbor's house.
>>
>
>If it's *really* a problem, then why don't codes require new home
>construction to have sprinkler systems installed? My friend's house
>came with them.

Because it isn't really a problem. Sprinkler systems are expensive
and create their own problems.

[Mike Marlow]

-MIKE- wrote:

>
> When I removed the old tile from my bathroom before our remodel, it
> was still is pristine condition after 20 years. It consisted of 4x4
> tiles on a thick self-leveling cement bed, on top of tar paper. The
> tar paper was enough to allow independent movement of the sub-floor
> and mortor bed, while the cement bed soaked up any moisture allowing
> it to evaporate without soaking into the sub-floor.

Likewise, despite all of the recommended practices that people insist must
be followed... I have torn out and remodeled too many bathrooms that were
tile over plywood and have stood up for 50 years. That was a very common
practice in the 60's. Those floors looked ugly but that was because of
stylistic issues, but they were still solid. Tearing them out was a work
out. No matter what anyone says about contraction rates, and all that other
stuff - tile over plywood/luan has stood the test of time. It works.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[-MIKE-]

My point, exactly.

[-MIKE-]

Just to clarify... tile on its thin-set over mortar bed over moisture
barrier over plywood had stood the test of time.

Tile on its thinset on plywood will last about 8 months or two season
changes.

[-MIKE-]

3/4"-1/4"=1/2", no?
According to their website, it's for floors, too. Again, I always call
their tech support to clarify their published product specs when matched
against my project specs.

[-MIKE-]

On 4/12/14, 5:39 PM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 15:30:22 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/12/14, 12:30 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:25:00 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>> Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely. But there's always a chance I'm reading their specs wrong.
>> Best thing to do is to call their tech support and ask them their
>> recommendation for the specifics of your application.
>>
>> People often mistakenly presume that the purpose of cement board is to
>> fortify or strengthen a sub-floor with too much deflection. That is not
>> its purpose at all and it would be very poor at doing so.
>
> Actually, it works very well for that purpose. It won't fix a rotten
> subfloor but it is as good or better than any other sheet goods for
> the purpose.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. :-)

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:12:06 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

-(Thinset x 2)

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:02:52 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

Though they are required in some jurisdictions. Obviously someone
thinks there's a problem.

[-MIKE-]

I guess I falsely assumed that 3/4" referred to the thickness of the
hardibacker.
Oops.

[-MIKE-]

That's a whole 'nother debate.

Many jurisdictions have some pretty ridiculous codes with many
requirements based on little more than old wives tales or an anomalous
occurrence that happened once but was sensationalized.

I think sprinklers are a pretty cheap and easy preventative measure that
don't have any more inherent problems than the plumbing already in the
walls.

[Martin Eastburn]

I have two sheets of OSB that have been used as shipping container sides.
They have weathered heavy storms and week long rain. Now they are made
to stand water! Phew. Used a 4x8 sheet on top of a 4x8 pallet on
my tractor fork and loaded a pickup load of plants and small trees.

Now it is handy as a work center and saves taking each and every plant
or tree by hand.

The new flake OSB is tight and strong like it was designed for.

40 years ago they made it with water soluble and it was used on homes.
Those melted after months. Caught that builder with his pants down!

Martin

[Mike Marlow]

-MIKE- wrote:

>
> Just to clarify... tile on its thin-set over mortar bed over moisture
> barrier over plywood had stood the test of time.
>
> Tile on its thinset on plywood will last about 8 months or two season
> changes.

Bullshit! That is the voice of no experience. I've just seen way too much
of tile over thinset over ply/luan to ever let anyone say this. Apparently
you haven't Mike.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[dadiOH]

"-MIKE-" <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote in message
news:lickjn$ulj$1...@speranza.aioe.org

> Just to clarify... tile on its thin-set over mortar bed
> over moisture barrier over plywood had stood the test of
> time.
> Tile on its thinset on plywood will last about 8 months
> or two season changes.

WHAT?? I did my kitchen counters 17 years ago, you mean they are now kaput?
Oh, wait...I used mastic, not thinset :)

--

dadiOH
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