Course hand saw for resawing

[Michael]

I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any experience or advice for this project?

Thanks,

Mike

[Swingman]

On 5/30/2016 5:04 PM, Michael wrote:
> I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a half to get the job done, and I'm wondering if I'm better off buying a course cutting hand saw, maybe a 9 pt or so. Does anyone have any experience or advice for this project?

Too young/small to operate it, but watched my grandfather use a frame
saw to resaw. The old shop in England I worked in briefly had them, but
being low on the totem pole I wasn't allowed to use.

Lot of effort regardless, but if I were forced to do it, I would
investigate going that route. Probably big toothed, set to rip, and
sharp as possible.

I recall seeing numerous plans in years past in magazines. Internet has
to full of them.

I do know that making things by hand, with tools you also made, triples
the satisfaction factor.

Good luck.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[John Grossbohlin]

"Michael" wrote in message
news:870f972e-b9a5-4e4b...@googlegroups.com...

I'm sure others would have differing opinions, but here's my take on it:

For this type of work a rip saw is generally used and the tpi would
generally be in the 4-5 range. You need rather large gullets to clear the
swarf while resawing... If the stock is under saw 3" in width you could use
a rip saw with 6-7 tpi but I wouldn't even try resawing with anything finer
as the swarf would all but keep it from cutting. If you were ripping a board
to width the higher tpi saws can give fine results but for rough work even
there a 4-5 tpi saw would be preferred for speed.

Some examples include:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=46886&cat=1,42884,63338
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/panel-saws-panel-saw-rip-cut-

or perhaps a rip frame saw:

http://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-blade/index.html
http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.html

[Michael]

John and Swingman,

Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from there. The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

Mike

[whit3rd]

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 3:04:21 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
> I'm making some oak and cedar boxes with hand tools only, and I want to resaw 3/4 inch boards to 1/4. My current hand saw takes about a year and a half to get the job done

You want a rip saw (or resharpen a saw to give it rip teeth). Me, I'd use a
table saw, making two nearly half-through cuts with a narrow kerf blade, then finish
the cut with a handsaw (it'll take some planing, too).

A rip saw (backless handsaw type) typically has 5 teeth/inch and no top bevel on the teeth.
They're fast and easy for rip-to-width chores, but resawing makes a lot more sawdust per inch.

Pros use bandsaws with rip blades, of course.

[woodchucker]

The current crop of saws are crosscut only. Get an old RIP saw. put a
file on the teeth and go for it.

--
Jeff

[dpb]

What size stock are you starting with? Tage Frid would also have used
the frame saw, I'd give an advantage here to the Japanese "cut on pull"
design as being where the bowing isn't such an issue as w/ push w/
Western saws...

--

[John Grossbohlin]

"Michael" wrote in message
news:a8e8b53e-8fe3-463f...@googlegroups.com...

>John and Swingman,

>Thanks for the good direction! I've watched this video a couple of times
>and I think I'll make the kerf plane and the frame saw and go from >there.
>The kerf plane is apparently this guy's own invention. It appears to work
>great. I probably won't go for the man bun though.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmswWZ4Lvo

>Mike

Here's a video from my old haunt...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_cuVge6-o0

[Martin Eastburn]

The two types of long hand saws - Rip and crosscut.
Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
side.

Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
let it rip!

The crosscut cuts a wider kerf as the fibers are facing the blade and
will bind the saw if the kerf isn't wide enough.

Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

Set in the teeth makes it a crosscut. If you have a "saw set" a
tool like a Pliers with a anvil and a press pin that bends a tooth
to one side. Move and do every other one. Then rotate the saw and
work down the other teeth pressing them off center like the others.

To convert - press the teeth back into line - e.g. press the wrong tooth
to the center line working on both sides.

Martin

[steve robinson]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:48:39 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>The two types of long hand saws - Rip and crosscut.
>Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
>side.
>
>Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
>let it rip!
>

Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

The set should run between 1.2 and 1.6 of the blade on standard cross
cut/ panel saws or rip saws although some timbers might require a set
of 2.00 of the blade ( very rare )

You never set greater than this because the Centrex of the blade fails
to make contact with the timber properly , makes the saws cutting
action rough

You set the saw according to they type of timber and moisture
content, hence old joiners may have several handsaws hanging in the
shop

Generally speaking the drier the timber the less set is required.

If you need to wax up a saw on a regular basis to cut your saw is
incorrectly set or your using the wrong saw.

[steve robinson]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 22:57:52 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>Set in the teeth makes it a crosscut. If you have a "saw set" a
>tool like a Pliers with a anvil and a press pin that bends a tooth
>to one side. Move and do every other one. Then rotate the saw and
>work down the other teeth pressing them off center like the others.

Both crosscut and rip have set

>To convert - press the teeth back into line - e.g. press the wrong tooth
>to the center line working on both sides.

How to ruin a saw , doing that can cause stress fractures in the base
of the tooth, if you wish to convert a crosscut to a rip for small
section timber you need to re cut the teeth set then sharpen

A converted saw is not really suitable for large scale ripping, the
blades are not generally thick enough to cope.

Better to buy a rip saw

[Larry Blanchard]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 11:52:05 +0100, steve robinson wrote:

>>Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
>>side.
>>
>>Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
>>let it rip!
>>
> Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting

Agreed. Although Disston did make a 120 crosscut that had no set but a
tapered blade "for dry hardwoods only". But it hasn't been made for
almost 100 years :-).

Also Martin, crosscut and rip saws are sharpened differently. Rip saw
teeth are sharpened straight across and act like little chisels.
Crosscut teeth are sharpened at an angle and act like little knives.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

[dpb]

On 06/02/2016 11:59 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
...

> Also Martin, crosscut and rip saws are sharpened differently. Rip saw
> teeth are sharpened straight across and act like little chisels.
> Crosscut teeth are sharpened at an angle and act like little knives.

A pretty nice explanation/illustration page is at

<http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html>

There are, of course, the specialty "no set on a side" dudes for things
like trimming dowels flush and the like, but the general truth is indeed
w/ "no set, no saw" 'cuz you'll never be able to push it after the first
strokes get the barrel of the blade in the kerf with no clearance --
which of course, was the "trick" w/ the 120; the body was thinner than
the teeth to provide, if you will, "reverse set".

--

[notbob]

On 2016-06-02, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

> A pretty nice explanation/illustration page is at
>
><http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html>

Thank you fer the link. Definitely clarifies what you folks have been
talking about. ;)

nb

[John McCoy]

Michael <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:870f972e-b9a5-4e4b...@googlegroups.com:

As everyone else has said, you need a ripsaw. Ripsaws are
available at the likes of Home Depot or Lowes for a fairly
low price; they are crap - the handles are so badly mis-shapen
your hands will cry in agony after 5 minutes use (as a rule
of thumb, if there's a straight line anywhere on handle, the
saw is worthless - doubly so if it's also plastic).

There are a few serious saw makers who offer saws sharpened
as ripsaws. They are not cheap.

The third alternative is to get an old saw from a flea market
or antique store and sharpen it. In my (limited) experience,
about 1 saw in 4 in "ye olde antique mall" is a rip saw, you'll
want to familiarize yourself with what a rip profile looks like
so you recognize the one you want. It is not difficult to
sharpen ripsaw teeth (crosscut is more complex, altho still not
difficult). You may find the available saws have had paint
slobbered over them by hack artists, but it can be scraped off.
A little rust is no problem, it will wear off in use and leave
a nice patina.

John

[Trenbidia]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 12:35:48 -0500, dpb wrote:

> A pretty nice explanation/illustration page is at
>
> <http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html>

That's the best explanation I've ever seen - many thanks.

--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[Martin Eastburn]

How old are you steve ? I've been using rip and crosscut
since 1952. This is before all of the fancy power junk that
splinter the wood.

I know what I'm talking about. Running along the grain is
smooth cutting and you will splinter the board if you use a crosscut.

Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

Yes sharpened differently and set differently. Different saws.
Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

The rip has more of a wave in the teeth and they are
full width. Think of a hacksaw.

Crosscut are extreme bent and are sharp points.

Martin

[steve robinson]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:02:44 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>Yes sharpened differently and set differently. Different saws.
>Martin
>
>On 6/2/2016 11:59 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 11:52:05 +0100, steve robinson wrote:
>>
>>>> Almost everyone has a crosscut saw - it has teeth that are bent side to
>>>> side.
>>>>
>>>> Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and
>>>> let it rip!
>>>>
>>> Rubbish, all saws have set on them otherwise they bind when cutting
>>
>> Agreed. Although Disston did make a 120 crosscut that had no set but a
>> tapered blade "for dry hardwoods only". But it hasn't been made for
>> almost 100 years :-).
>>

It wasnt very successful and most tradesmen of the day on re
sharpening added a small amount of set.

[steve robinson]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:01:41 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>How old are you steve ? I've been using rip and crosscut
>since 1952. This is before all of the fancy power junk that
>splinter the wood.
>
>I know what I'm talking about. Running along the grain is
>smooth cutting and you will splinter the board if you use a crosscut.

I never said use a crosscut for rip sawing

My information goes back to 1945 a carpentry manual written by JK Mc
Kay which i have just pulled off my bookshelf confirms what i have
said , i am a highly qualified professional carpenter joiner / cabinet
maker of a similar age to yourself , i still use many of the
traditional tools , have several disstons hanging on my shop wall,
wooden planes infact my pride and joy was a Disstons owned by my
grandfather handed down to my uncle who then he gave it to me Saw was
manufactured in 1880 , unfortunately some low life stole it along
with a boxed set of moulding planes (full set)

I too know what im talking about , i am a Fellow of the institute of
carpenters of some 30 years have worked on many historical
buildings.

The information is also freely available on several craft web sites.

Disstons was one of the first manufactures to hollow back his saws
which allowed for a lighter set giving a far better, more accurate cut
.

Steve

[Larry Blanchard]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 21:01:41 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:

> How old are you steve ? I've been using rip and crosscut since 1952.
> This is before all of the fancy power junk that splinter the wood.

Martin,in your initial post in this thread you said:

"Rip saws have teeth that are inline without any set. Wax the saw and let
it rip!"

That "without any set" is what prompted the replies. Maybe you meant
otherwise, but if not your experience seems lacking :-).

[Martin Eastburn]

When you have set the teeth goes side to side.
An unset blade the teeth are full width and at most wave or are in line.
The hacksaw blade is one example of a wave blade.

The teeth on crosscut are triangles. Have sharp teeth and are not full
metal.

The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

Martin

[dpb]

On 06/03/2016 9:51 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
...

> The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

But they're still _set_...

<http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html>

Fig. 3

--

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in
news:Gmr4z.286$y42...@fx24.iad:

> When you have set the teeth goes side to side.
> An unset blade the teeth are full width and at most wave or are in
> line. The hacksaw blade is one example of a wave blade.

You appear to have a unique definition of "set". Since
your definition is different from everyone else's, your
comments are hard to understand.

Hacksaw blades have set. It's not alternate tooth set as
would be done on a crosscut or ripsaw for wood, but the
teeth are still set.

> The teeth on a rip saw are full width of the blade.

So are the teeth on a crosscut saw. As you say they are
triangles (viewed from the top), the trailing edge of the
triangle is full width of the blade.

John

[Martin Eastburn]

No way near the set of a set tooth of a crosscut or Gen purpose blade.
Just because the whole tooth not a pointed one is shifted slightly
doesn't mean it is set. Set teeth alternate and are pointed for sharp
cutting of grain. Rip blades chop the grain and slide between strands
of the grain on the side of the saw.

Ripping is done in long power strokes.
Crosscutting is short and jerky strokes.
The pull saw was developed for more control in the crosscut.

Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.

The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin

[whit3rd]

The way to tell isn't to squint at the teeth; rather, make a cut and
look at the kerf. A ripsaw makes a flat-bottom kerf, because
the teeth are chisel-like with the edge perpendicular to the cut,
while crosscut teeth have alternate bevel (makes a 'W' bottom kerf).

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in news:gfq5z.2921$A%
1.1...@fx17.iad:

> John look at a tooth. Rip is full width and is all there.
> A crosscut is angle cut to make and half of the metal is gone.
>
> The shape and use of the tooth is completely different.

Martin, nobody in this thread has disputed that the shape
of rip teeth and crosscut teeth are different.

What you are insisting, which is wrong, and which everyone
has been trying to politely correct you, is that rip teeth
have no set. That is simply wrong. Rip teeth have set.
Hacksaw teeth have set. Pretty much every tooth on every
saw has set(*).

(* the exceptions are when the tooth is wider than the blade,
as is the case with most power saw blades; or things like
felling saws where the raker teeth are not set).

John

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in news:_bq5z.21113
$bx2....@fx34.iad:

> Crosscutting is short and jerky strokes.

This is a ridiculous statement. I don't beleive you have
ever even used a handsaw.

John

[John McCoy]

whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in news:db7461bc-8683-4d47-b918-
7e139d...@googlegroups.com:

> The way to tell isn't to squint at the teeth; rather, make a cut and
> look at the kerf. A ripsaw makes a flat-bottom kerf, because
> the teeth are chisel-like with the edge perpendicular to the cut,
> while crosscut teeth have alternate bevel (makes a 'W' bottom kerf).

Well, that would work. But on a sharp saw, the difference
between a rip tooth and a crosscut doesn't need squinting,
the reflection off a crosscut tooth is pretty obvious.

John

[Larry Blanchard]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:20:30 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:

> Just because the whole tooth not a pointed one is shifted slightly
> doesn't mean it is set.

As others have pointed out, you seem to have your own definition of set.

[Leon]

Another certain exception are some styles of jig saw blades. Many of
the ones I use have no set and leave an almost burnished surface.

[steve robinson]

Not very long lasting though and useless in anything over 25mm

[Leon]

Regardless they are quite common and useful.

They last long enough, I have been using them for 15+ years.
And FWIW jigsawing over an inch thick is pretty much using the wrong
saw. I prefer quality of cut over longevity.

[Martin Eastburn]

Only for 67 years. I have my 67 year old saw in the shop. I'ts about
1/3 of the size of the full size.

Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

What is your definition of set ?

I have saws from 1/3 size to full size to double buck size. And a pull
saw for backup.

Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

That matches what I say.

[Martin Eastburn]

look at a pull blade. The teeth are withing the width of the metal.
The rip has a tiny set. A cross cut you have a tool that puts set and
it is a strong set. You press the handle together and a tongue presses
in to a slot of the anvil. This is a setting tool. Every other tooth,
then rotate the saw and align and press the other teeth. The trick is
to get the proper tooth in the proper bent position and all at the same
amount or the job is jerky. Many saws are flopped down on a bench and
the set starts to get out of align. If you don't sharpen and set your
own tools you will never know.

The problem is set is set or set isn't set. One has to measure with a
finer instrument to measure the set in a rip. The set is very tiny so
it doesn't tear the side grain and keeps a cleaner cut.

The crosscut does that cuts back and forth ripping and tearing and
shearing. It is fighting fiber strands on every tooth. The strands
grip the sides of the blade. One wants a wide kerf for an easy cut.

We used to set saws before a job. We sawed many a sheet of plywood to
make book cases long before fancy power tools came to the home owner.

Martin

On 6/7/2016 9:42 AM, John McCoy wrote:

[Larry Blanchard]

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 22:54:35 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:

> What is your definition of set ?

http://www.blackburntools.com/articles/saw-tooth-geometry/index.html

See the last page or so.

Since I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you're trolling, I won't
be responding to this thread any more. If you're not trolling, and live
in a universe where "set" means what you say it means, and not what the
rest of the universe says it means, more power to you.

[Martin Eastburn]

Trolling - see if you have 20+ years in the group I suspect I have more.

Now look at Cut 10 figure 23 rip teeth. Notice the non-diamond shape
and the slight bend. That isn't set to my thinking - I quote from the
article by Isaac Smith:

"Set varies from none in saws that are heavily taper ground and used in
dry hardwoods, to a hundredth of an inch or more in coarse saws used in
wet woods."

I don't cut much green wood with a hand saw. Double Buck yes. Hardwoods
and dry has "None to a hundred of an inch" None for hardwoods and
hundred of an inch for green wood.

Thanks for the facts that you don't seem to read. Look below figure 24.
And then the example figure 25.

None means ZERO(0).

The pictures have to show something to show the measurement area.

Martin

[steve robinson]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 00:10:25 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>Trolling - see if you have 20+ years in the group I suspect I have more.
>
>Now look at Cut 10 figure 23 rip teeth. Notice the non-diamond shape
>and the slight bend. That isn't set to my thinking - I quote from the
>article by Isaac Smith:
>
>"Set varies from none in saws that are heavily taper ground and used in
>dry hardwoods, to a hundredth of an inch or more in coarse saws used in
>wet woods."
>
>I don't cut much green wood with a hand saw. Double Buck yes. Hardwoods
>and dry has "None to a hundred of an inch" None for hardwoods and
>hundred of an inch for green wood.
>
>Thanks for the facts that you don't seem to read. Look below figure 24.
>And then the example figure 25.
>
>None means ZERO(0).
>
>The pictures have to show something to show the measurement area.
>
>Martin

Figure 24 quite clearly shows set in a ripsaw in the link below, i
have already provided details of manuals showing set in ripsaws , if
you look on the disstons archives it quite clearly shows ripsaws
have set.

Disstons produced one ripsaw for a very short time designed to cut
dry hardwood without set, it was discontinued, although it was an
excellent saw tradesmen found by putting a set on it aactually
performed far better.

Heavily taper ground rip saws although experimented with never
really found favour , they where in general heavier gauge steel to
facilitate the heavy taper needed to accommodate free movement
through the timber, couldn't cope well with resin or sap and still
had issues with binding, hence the reason Disstons dropped the 120
from its line, its use unless set was extremely limited.

Its quite clear your assertion that ripsaws were not set is wrong
conformed by your own evidence.

No one has denied that some manufacturers experimented with no set
ripsaws , however the end result was they were usually discontinued
after a very short time because of the limited use.

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in news:lT66z.22517
$ij2....@fx04.iad:

> "Set varies from none in saws that are heavily taper ground"

You seem to be the one that isn't reading. See those words
"heavily taper ground". Those are the only handsaws without
set, and those are to all intents and purposes non-existant
(I doubt any have been made since before WW2).

John

[Martin Eastburn]

You are looking at green or almost green pine. That needs some set.

If you are cutting hardwood, walnut, Oak, etc NONE is the word in the
sentence. See the QUOTE - that is letter to letter from Isaac Smith.

Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

Those are the saws that are used on Hardwoods. How many of you
use a handsaw on hardwood ? Most use it on pine or sometimes ply.
Fur and Pine are not hardwoods.
If you have a lower cost saw it is for construction. If you have an
expensive saw it is for hardwood or both.

Martin

[steve robinson]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 22:03:38 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>You are looking at green or almost green pine. That needs some set.
>
>If you are cutting hardwood, walnut, Oak, etc NONE is the word in the
>sentence. See the QUOTE - that is letter to letter from Isaac Smith.
>
>Martin
>

It also states on heavily taper ground saw plates .

I don't know any saw manufacturer in the western world that produces
as a stock item mass produced ripsaws without set of some kind

[steve robinson]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 22:05:48 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>Those are the saws that are used on Hardwoods. How many of you
>use a handsaw on hardwood ? Most use it on pine or sometimes ply.
>Fur and Pine are not hardwoods.
>If you have a lower cost saw it is for construction. If you have an
>expensive saw it is for hardwood or both.
>
>Martin
>

Many Hardwoods are actually far more resinous and softer than some
softwoods

Oak, Elm, Teak will not cut without set infact most hardwoods won't
unless your using timber that has a moisture content below 10%

In years gone by it was rare to see timber off the rack hitting those
levels as all timber was air dried

Most seasoned timbers came into the shop around 15 to 22%

Infact it was common practice to cut up your sections straighten
and square them off then leave them in the building you were working
on for a couple of months before you worked them .

The only exception was the old cabinet makers shops who would have a
fire going year round , but the sections they used were small in
comparison to general construction / joinery.

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in news:w8q6z.11518
$yf2....@fx07.iad:

> Those are the saws that are used on Hardwoods. How many of you
> use a handsaw on hardwood ? Most use it on pine or sometimes ply.

What? I think I agree with Larry, you're just making absurd
statements to troll the group.

Of course I use a handsaw on hardwoods. So, I'm guessing, does
everyone else in the group (you, perhaps, excepted). This is
a group for cabinetry after all, not carpentry.

Offhand I can't recall ever using a handsaw on ply.

John

[steve robinson]

He is arguing about a specific saw that was marketed by disston for
a very short period of time, suitable for one purpose fine
accurate cuts in thin stock, if he bothered to check on the disston
website , it also states that many tradesmen actually added set to the
saw.

This was one of the reasons why it got dropped , although a fantastic
product its market was limited as other saws were just as good but
serviced a larger section of he marketplace.

The manufacturing process for sawblades in the 1800s couldnt produce
the fine grade steel with suitable tensile strength , blades were
generally a lot thicker than they are today to take out the whip .

[Martin Eastburn]

I haven't seen a ripsaw in a hardware store in 40 years.
I suppose you could buy one on line. But having a ground saw isn't
that uncommon. They do that on table saw blades and other products.

Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

So you are an old school wood worker and are without a table saw,
bandsaw (sliding table naturally) or any power tools.

I use a saw to touch up and do small work. I don't work myself to
death sawing a lot of wood by hand. I use my mind not my back.

Martin

[J. Clarke]

In article <xSK6z.8321$w42....@fx14.iad>, lion...@consolidated.net
says...

>
> I haven't seen a ripsaw in a hardware store in 40 years.
> I suppose you could buy one on line. But having a ground saw isn't
> that uncommon. They do that on table saw blades and other products.

Fine, Martin, since you're the world's expert on saws, tell us where to
get a taper ground handsaw, new, today.

And if you can't, then grow up and admit that you're being an ass.

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in news:5WK6z.8322
$w42....@fx14.iad:

> So you are an old school wood worker and are without a table saw,
> bandsaw (sliding table naturally) or any power tools.
>
> I use a saw to touch up and do small work. I don't work myself to
> death sawing a lot of wood by hand. I use my mind not my back.

Well, there's certainly no evidence in this thread that
you use your mind.

Personally, I use the right tool for the job. I use a
handsaw for cutting tenons, because I'm in no hurry and
it's easier than setting up the tenoning jig on the table
saw. I use a handsaw to cut long boards to rough length,
because that makes them easier and safer to handle on
the table saw. I use a handsaw for other small stuff,
when it's easier or quicker than going to a power saw.
Whatever is the right tool for the job.

John

[John McCoy]

steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in
news:fgollbhmligfrpif8...@4ax.com:

> He is arguing about a specific saw that was marketed by disston for
> a very short period of time, suitable for one purpose fine
> accurate cuts in thin stock, if he bothered to check on the disston
> website , it also states that many tradesmen actually added set to the
> saw.

It's hard to tell, actually, what he's argueing about. He
started out by saying ripsaws have a different tooth shape
(true) and no set (false). Since then he's made a variety
of ludicrous statements, most of which suggest he hasn't
actually done any woodworking in decades, and doesn't really
remember what he did.

John

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in

news:xSK6z.8321$w42....@fx14.iad:

> I haven't seen a ripsaw in a hardware store in 40 years.
> I suppose you could buy one on line.

As I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, Lowes and Home
Depot have them (they're crap, but they're there).

There are several on-line vendors of quality saws who will
provide them sharped as a ripsaw.

John

[Martin Eastburn]

Eat your words.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx
Product Information:
The taper ground blade on this 26" Lynx rip handsaw provides
friction-free cutting, and the hollowing of the back reduces weight,
improving balance and letting the saw tip start a cut in confined areas.
Each Lynx saw is individually produced by a craftsman who ensures that
you get a reliable tool that holds a sharp cutting edge, and will not
fail under constant hard use. Setting and grinding of the teeth is done
by hand so that proper tooth geometry is maintained for the best cutting
action. Handles are carefully crafted and fitted to blades with solid
brass mounting bolts.
- See more at:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx#sthash.WUJRIPRW.dpuf

Martin

[Spalted Walt]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>I haven't seen a ripsaw in a hardware store in 40 years.
>I suppose you could buy one on line. But having a ground saw isn't
>that uncommon. They do that on table saw blades and other products.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=46886&cat=1,42884,63338

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/panel-saws-panel-saw-rip-cut-

[J. Clarke]

In article <SO57z.31847$Pv2....@fx44.iad>, lion...@consolidated.net
says...

>
> Eat your words.
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx
> Product Information:
> The taper ground blade on this 26" Lynx rip handsaw provides
> friction-free cutting, and the hollowing of the back reduces weight,
> improving balance and letting the saw tip start a cut in confined areas.
> Each Lynx saw is individually produced by a craftsman who ensures that
> you get a reliable tool that holds a sharp cutting edge, and will not
> fail under constant hard use. Setting and grinding of the teeth is done
> by hand so that proper tooth geometry is maintained for the best cutting
> action. Handles are carefully crafted and fitted to blades with solid
> brass mounting bolts.
> - See more at:
> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx#sthash.WUJRIPRW.dpuf
>
> Martin

Eat what words? I told you to put up or shut up. To my surprise, you
put up instead of whingeing. Well done.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[dpb]

On 06/12/2016 6:06 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<SO57z.31847$Pv2....@fx44.iad>, lion...@consolidated.net

> says...
>>
>> Eat your words.
>>
>> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx
>> Product Information:
>> The taper ground blade on this 26" Lynx rip handsaw provides
>> friction-free cutting, and the hollowing of the back reduces weight,
>> improving balance and letting the saw tip start a cut in confined areas.
>> Each Lynx saw is individually produced by a craftsman who ensures that
>> you get a reliable tool that holds a sharp cutting edge, and will not
>> fail under constant hard use. Setting and grinding of the teeth is done
>> by hand so that proper tooth geometry is maintained for the best cutting
>> action. Handles are carefully crafted and fitted to blades with solid
>> brass mounting bolts.
>> - See more at:
>> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx#sthash.WUJRIPRW.dpuf
>>
>> Martin
>
> Eat what words? I told you to put up or shut up. To my surprise, you
> put up instead of whingeing. Well done.

...

But it _still_ has SET--

"Teeth precisely set and sharpened to ensure the best possible cut - See
more at:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx#sthash.WUJRIPRW.ifG7zTUr.dpuf"

--

[John Grossbohlin]

"Martin Eastburn" wrote in message news:SO57z.31847$Pv2....@fx44.iad...

>http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx
>Product Information:
>The taper ground blade on this 26" Lynx rip handsaw provides friction-free
>cutting, and the hollowing of the back reduces weight,

I have one of those and a Sandvik rip saw... I also have a Lynx 12 pt cross
cut, Disten 8 pt crosscut and a 12 pt Sandvik cross cut. Bought them all
new... have L-N dovetail, L-N cross cut back saw, and an L-N tenon saw also.
They all work fine...

When the Albany NY Woodcraft closed I picked up the Lynx saws on "final
days" clearance. This after going there looking for an 1/8" chisel after
teaching a dovetailing class for NWA... I got all three items for $140
including tax. Seemed like a good deal at the time. ;~)

[John Grossbohlin]

"Spalted Walt" wrote in message
news:r1splbpa4fg887mad...@4ax.com...

I posted those references too... back on 5/30 before this discussion spun
out of control! LOL

[notbob]

On 2016-06-12, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

> "Teeth precisely set and sharpened to ensure the best possible cut - See
> more at:
> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx#sthash.WUJRIPRW.ifG7zTUr.dpuf"

I notice they do not seem to be "breasted", like Pax saws:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=46886&cat=1,42884,63338

http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/glossary.html

nb

[steve robinson]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:46:11 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>Eat your words.
>
>http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx
>Product Information:
>The taper ground blade on this 26" Lynx rip handsaw provides
>friction-free cutting, and the hollowing of the back reduces weight,
>improving balance and letting the saw tip start a cut in confined areas.
>Each Lynx saw is individually produced by a craftsman who ensures that
>you get a reliable tool that holds a sharp cutting edge, and will not
>fail under constant hard use. Setting and grinding of the teeth is done
>by hand so that proper tooth geometry is maintained for the best cutting
>action. Handles are carefully crafted and fitted to blades with solid
>brass mounting bolts.
>- See more at:
>http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147407/lynx-wclr26-ripping-saw-26-x-412-tpi.aspx#sthash.WUJRIPRW.dpuf
>
>Martin
>

Snip

Note the word setting

[Martin Eastburn]

Doesn't say what set value in the display.
The documents say set is from zero to .1". Zero is set just not much.
Martin

[steve robinson]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 22:11:27 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>Doesn't say what set value in the display.
>The documents say set is from zero to .1". Zero is set just not much.
>Martin
>

The point is its set, something you stated ripsaws do not have.

[Martin Eastburn]

The Document and I agree. It states that "SET" is from ZERO (0) inches
to approximately 1/10" of offset. Zero set is for very hard wood.
The ground blade allows slippage. In soft woods, sticky woods with sap -
use 1/10" and that means +/- .1" so the kerf is blade width to way out
there near a 1/4"! .2 + width of the blade.

It says you have to set the set yourself by hand. It depends on the work
intended for the saw.

One could have full set and waste a lot of high quality and expensive
wood or have it as small as possible. This saw has a taper ground blade
which allows for zero or almost zero for exotic wood.

Martin

[steve robinson]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:32:01 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

snip

You do realize a taper ground saw isn't ground uniformly along its
length plus they are not ground to the teeth

[Martin Eastburn]

Read. It says set your set by hand. If you need 2" wavy for your
needs then do it. The taper is in the upper part as that is where
the drag/tug occurs. Close to the teeth there is more power in the
saw than drag. If you need more add more. If you are cutting a $50
board, then use what you want to do.

Martin

[steve robinson]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:39:27 -0500, Martin Eastburn

<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>Read. It says set your set by hand. If you need 2" wavy for your
>needs then do it. The taper is in the upper part as that is where
>the drag/tug occurs. Close to the teeth there is more power in the
>saw than drag. If you need more add more. If you are cutting a $50
>board, then use what you want to do.
>
>Martin
>
>On 6/15/2016 10:07 AM, steve robinson wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:32:01 -0500, Martin Eastburn
>> <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>>
>> snip
>>
>> You do realize a taper ground saw isn't ground uniformly along its
>> length plus they are not ground to the teeth
>>

So you now finally agree ripsaws have set

[John McCoy]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in news:Ejo8z.54356
$gy2....@fx38.iad:

> Read. It says set your set by hand.

Not sure why I'm getting back in this, but no, it does
not say "set your set by hand". It says the manufacturer
of the saw performs the setting by hand (that particular
manufacturer does pretty much everything by hand).

John

[Martin Eastburn]

I ALWAYS said they did - from Zero to about .1" is the spec.
Martin

[Martin Eastburn]

They set to the middle ground. If you are sawing exotic and hard to get
wood, you don't want a .25" kerf unless you have to. Set it yourself to
the size you want for your specific job or use the generic set.
Martin