Festool Roadshow

[k...@notreal.com]

I took a day off work today (have more days left than there are
working days left in the year) to go to the Festool Roadshow at
Highland Woodworking. Well worth the time spent, particularly the
free battery and charger ($145 list). Nice swag!

[Leon]

It is a great display, we get it this coming Monday. I got a battery
last year hoping for another or a discount on something. Ha. Ha.

Looking closely and seriously at the Kapex... ;~) Nope, I don't need
one, cant justify one, but there times that it might be very helpful.
Seems I always need to make a good clean cut when my TS is set up with a
stacked dado set.

IIRC you have the Bosch glide CMS. 10" or 12"? Anything to share about
that saw? I love the smoothness of the glide and up front controls but
for only 2.5 times the money, LOL, the Kapex offers a lot of perks. In
particular the ease of dialing in the bevel aided with counter balance
so that you don't have a lot of weight to hang on to when adjusting the
bevel. Dial laser indicating the wood that will disappear, small and
relatively lite weight, pretty good dust collection, the angle
finder/setup thingey, and lot's of good reviews. I saw a video of a 7
year old Kapex with dents and dings that gets carried to the jobsite
every day, the carpenter/owner still swears by it. Apparently it fell
out of his truck with no issues resulting.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:42:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 12/7/2017 7:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>> I took a day off work today (have more days left than there are
>> working days left in the year) to go to the Festool Roadshow at
>> Highland Woodworking. Well worth the time spent, particularly the
>> free battery and charger ($145 list). Nice swag!
>>
>
>
>It is a great display, we get it this coming Monday. I got a battery
>last year hoping for another or a discount on something. Ha. Ha.
>
>Looking closely and seriously at the Kapex... ;~) Nope, I don't need
>one, cant justify one, but there times that it might be very helpful.
>Seems I always need to make a good clean cut when my TS is set up with a
>stacked dado set.

I'm looking at one, simply because it takes less room than my Bosch. I
like the Bosch but if I put it on a cabinet, it's *huge*.

>
>IIRC you have the Bosch glide CMS. 10" or 12"? Anything to share about
>that saw? I love the smoothness of the glide and up front controls but
>for only 2.5 times the money, LOL, the Kapex offers a lot of perks.

Me? No, I have a 12" with the rails sticking out the back (5312, I
think). :-(

>In
>particular the ease of dialing in the bevel aided with counter balance
>so that you don't have a lot of weight to hang on to when adjusting the
>bevel. Dial laser indicating the wood that will disappear, small and
>relatively lite weight, pretty good dust collection, the angle
>finder/setup thingey, and lot's of good reviews. I saw a video of a 7
>year old Kapex with dents and dings that gets carried to the jobsite
>every day, the carpenter/owner still swears by it. Apparently it fell
>out of his truck with no issues resulting.

The dust collection on my Bosch is miserable (read: useless). It
sprays splinters everywhere except into the blade safety cover and
exhaust port. If I replace it, space is my primary motivation with
dust collect a close second.

[Leon]

On 12/8/2017 11:17 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:42:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 12/7/2017 7:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I took a day off work today (have more days left than there are
>>> working days left in the year) to go to the Festool Roadshow at
>>> Highland Woodworking. Well worth the time spent, particularly the
>>> free battery and charger ($145 list). Nice swag!
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is a great display, we get it this coming Monday. I got a battery
>> last year hoping for another or a discount on something. Ha. Ha.
>>
>> Looking closely and seriously at the Kapex... ;~) Nope, I don't need
>> one, cant justify one, but there times that it might be very helpful.
>> Seems I always need to make a good clean cut when my TS is set up with a
>> stacked dado set.
>
> I'm looking at one, simply because it takes less room than my Bosch. I
> like the Bosch but if I put it on a cabinet, it's *huge*.

THANK YOU! The was my exact thoughts. The Kapex and it's stand and
wings fold up to almost nothing and is very portable. IIRC the Kapex
set up will make repeated cuts up to 94" with the wing extensions extended.

>>
>> IIRC you have the Bosch glide CMS. 10" or 12"? Anything to share about
>> that saw? I love the smoothness of the glide and up front controls but
>> for only 2.5 times the money, LOL, the Kapex offers a lot of perks.
>
> Me? No, I have a 12" with the rails sticking out the back (5312, I
> think). :-(

Oh well. ;~)

>
>> In
>> particular the ease of dialing in the bevel aided with counter balance
>> so that you don't have a lot of weight to hang on to when adjusting the
>> bevel. Dial laser indicating the wood that will disappear, small and
>> relatively lite weight, pretty good dust collection, the angle
>> finder/setup thingey, and lot's of good reviews. I saw a video of a 7
>> year old Kapex with dents and dings that gets carried to the jobsite
>> every day, the carpenter/owner still swears by it. Apparently it fell
>> out of his truck with no issues resulting.
>
> The dust collection on my Bosch is miserable (read: useless). It
> sprays splinters everywhere except into the blade safety cover and
> exhaust port. If I replace it, space is my primary motivation with
> dust collect a close second.
>

I'm right there with you on those thoughts. I want the saw to be easily
moved, set up, and take up little space when not in use.

Have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAkF733INM

This one shows the caps for the extensions and how it all fits together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHN4xGvKGRc

And this one seems to prove the saw will hold up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYal6minkE

[DerbyDad03]

Tis I that has the Bosch 10" Glide. You may recall that the first one I
received was faulty, leaving teeth marks as the blade spun down.

https://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

The replacement unit (easily accomplished through Amazon) is fine.

I wish I could offer an in-depth review, but I don't have much to compare it
to. My previous CMS was a 20+ YO low-end Delta. I haven't had the need to
do much (if any) in the way of compound cuts, mainly crosscuts with some 45°
every now and then. Works just fine for that. I mainly needed the glide
feature because of space limitations.

At 67 lbs, I wouldn't exactly call it portable.

Dust collection? Again, the only thing I can compare it to is the old Delta.
Compared to that, it's operating room ready. ;-) I did a test just for you
guys. I vacuumed all around the saw and then crosscut a piece of 1 x 8 poplar.

On the left is with the vacuum off. There's noticeably less sawdust on the
right, but the biggest difference is the cleanliness of my lungs. No spray
of sawdust in my face.

https://i.imgur.com/YhJv0wW.jpg

One of the first things I did was make a zero clearance insert. The two
piece insert that came with the saw was a joke. The gap was at least 1/2"
wide.

Based on my limited opportunity to compare it to anything other than my old
Delta, I'm satisfied with the Bosch. I used a 12" Dewalt slider a few months
ago in the workshop of the farm SWMBO works at, but that didn't count.
Someone used it to cut live branches, so all it did was burn it's way
through the wood I was trying to cut. (There was a sheep shearing exhibition
in the barn that the workshop is attached to. I convinced them not to
evacuate when the saw set off the smoke detectors in the workshop. Seriously.)

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 17:37:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 12/8/2017 11:17 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:42:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/7/2017 7:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I took a day off work today (have more days left than there are
>>>> working days left in the year) to go to the Festool Roadshow at
>>>> Highland Woodworking. Well worth the time spent, particularly the
>>>> free battery and charger ($145 list). Nice swag!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is a great display, we get it this coming Monday. I got a battery
>>> last year hoping for another or a discount on something. Ha. Ha.
>>>
>>> Looking closely and seriously at the Kapex... ;~) Nope, I don't need
>>> one, cant justify one, but there times that it might be very helpful.
>>> Seems I always need to make a good clean cut when my TS is set up with a
>>> stacked dado set.
>>
>> I'm looking at one, simply because it takes less room than my Bosch. I
>> like the Bosch but if I put it on a cabinet, it's *huge*.
>
>THANK YOU! The was my exact thoughts. The Kapex and it's stand and
>wings fold up to almost nothing and is very portable. IIRC the Kapex
>set up will make repeated cuts up to 94" with the wing extensions extended.

I was at work when I posted the above, so just to elaborate a
little...

The back of the fence has to be 26" from the wall, so if I allowed for
a 12" board, it makes the bench 38" wide, both on the left and right
sides of the saw. The saw itself is 44" from front to back. So...
If I make a cabinet for it, it'll be something like 3' to 3'6" by 16
feet. I have the space, but it pushes other stuff further away.

>>>
>>> IIRC you have the Bosch glide CMS. 10" or 12"? Anything to share about
>>> that saw? I love the smoothness of the glide and up front controls but
>>> for only 2.5 times the money, LOL, the Kapex offers a lot of perks.
>>
>> Me? No, I have a 12" with the rails sticking out the back (5312, I
>> think). :-(
>
>Oh well. ;~)
>

That was a Bosch 5312, BTW (sorry, I wasn't clear).

>>> In
>>> particular the ease of dialing in the bevel aided with counter balance
>>> so that you don't have a lot of weight to hang on to when adjusting the
>>> bevel. Dial laser indicating the wood that will disappear, small and
>>> relatively lite weight, pretty good dust collection, the angle
>>> finder/setup thingey, and lot's of good reviews. I saw a video of a 7
>>> year old Kapex with dents and dings that gets carried to the jobsite
>>> every day, the carpenter/owner still swears by it. Apparently it fell
>>> out of his truck with no issues resulting.
>>
>> The dust collection on my Bosch is miserable (read: useless). It
>> sprays splinters everywhere except into the blade safety cover and
>> exhaust port. If I replace it, space is my primary motivation with
>> dust collect a close second.
>>
>
>I'm right there with you on those thoughts. I want the saw to be easily
>moved, set up, and take up little space when not in use.

I'm not so interested in moving it. I have a HF 10" CMS that works
well enough for things I'd want to do outside (I have to do some
siding in the spring).

>
>Have you seen this?
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAkF733INM

Yes, I've seen it. I can see where it would be perfect for a
carpenter, where portability and setup time is a priority. I have one
of these, with an extra set of mounting hardware so I can use it with
either the Bosch or HF.

<http://www.dewalt.com/products/accessories/tool-accessories/saw-accessories/miter-saw-accessories-and-stands/heavy-duty-miter-saw-stand/dwx723>

However, I'm not at all happy with the rigidity of any of the Festool
stands/tables. IMO, the router table is simply dangerous and I don't
need portable. I'd rather have storage space.

>This one shows the caps for the extensions and how it all fits together.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHN4xGvKGRc
>
>And this one seems to prove the saw will hold up.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYal6minkE

AIUI, there have also been problems with Kapexes (Kapi?) burning up.
There is pretty consistent chatter on the FOG about this. FWIG by
reading the FOG is that Festool didn't handle the situation well,
either. Dunno, $1500 is a bunch of money/

[Leon]

I stand corrected, and you have a tooth blade problem with several of
your blades. :!) One day you will venture out and get a Forrest WWII.
I switched to that blade in 1999 and have not looked back. If the stock
is flat and straight I get no tooth marks, often burnished. BUT you
have to have a robust saw also.

>
> https://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg
>
> The replacement unit (easily accomplished through Amazon) is fine.
>
> I wish I could offer an in-depth review, but I don't have much to compare it
> to. My previous CMS was a 20+ YO low-end Delta. I haven't had the need to
> do much (if any) in the way of compound cuts, mainly crosscuts with some 45°
> every now and then. Works just fine for that. I mainly needed the glide
> feature because of space limitations.

Ahh the Delta, I have one that is about that age, maybe older. It is a
12 CMS. Freaky loud and cranky. When I got my first cabinet saw and
Forrest WWII I immediately retired the Delta. I have used it a time or
two since. I miss having a miter saw when I need to make a good clean
cut and the TS is set up for something else.

>
> At 67 lbs, I wouldn't exactly call it portable.

No, and an advantage to the Kapex is it's 47 lbs. PLUS it's compact
size and nothing slides past the back of the saw, much like the Bosch Glide.

>
> Dust collection? Again, the only thing I can compare it to is the old Delta.
> Compared to that, it's operating room ready. ;-) I did a test just for you
> guys. I vacuumed all around the saw and then crosscut a piece of 1 x 8 poplar.
>
> On the left is with the vacuum off. There's noticeably less sawdust on the
> right, but the biggest difference is the cleanliness of my lungs. No spray
> of sawdust in my face.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/YhJv0wW.jpg

Thanks for reposting.

[Leon]

On 12/8/2017 8:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 17:37:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 12/8/2017 11:17 AM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:42:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/7/2017 7:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I took a day off work today (have more days left than there are
>>>>> working days left in the year) to go to the Festool Roadshow at
>>>>> Highland Woodworking. Well worth the time spent, particularly the
>>>>> free battery and charger ($145 list). Nice swag!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is a great display, we get it this coming Monday. I got a battery
>>>> last year hoping for another or a discount on something. Ha. Ha.
>>>>
>>>> Looking closely and seriously at the Kapex... ;~) Nope, I don't need
>>>> one, cant justify one, but there times that it might be very helpful.
>>>> Seems I always need to make a good clean cut when my TS is set up with a
>>>> stacked dado set.
>>>
>>> I'm looking at one, simply because it takes less room than my Bosch. I
>>> like the Bosch but if I put it on a cabinet, it's *huge*.
>>
>> THANK YOU! The was my exact thoughts. The Kapex and it's stand and
>> wings fold up to almost nothing and is very portable. IIRC the Kapex
>> set up will make repeated cuts up to 94" with the wing extensions extended.
>
> I was at work when I posted the above, so just to elaborate a
> little...

NP

>
> The back of the fence has to be 26" from the wall, so if I allowed for
> a 12" board, it makes the bench 38" wide, both on the left and right
> sides of the saw. The saw itself is 44" from front to back. So...
> If I make a cabinet for it, it'll be something like 3' to 3'6" by 16
> feet. I have the space, but it pushes other stuff further away.
>

Been there done that with a non slider and did not like the real estate
that the bench took up when not in use.

>>>>
>>>> IIRC you have the Bosch glide CMS. 10" or 12"? Anything to share about
>>>> that saw? I love the smoothness of the glide and up front controls but
>>>> for only 2.5 times the money, LOL, the Kapex offers a lot of perks.
>>>
>>> Me? No, I have a 12" with the rails sticking out the back (5312, I
>>> think). :-(
>>
>> Oh well. ;~)
>>
> That was a Bosch 5312, BTW (sorry, I wasn't clear).

Not a problem, thanks.

>
>>>> In
>>>> particular the ease of dialing in the bevel aided with counter balance
>>>> so that you don't have a lot of weight to hang on to when adjusting the
>>>> bevel. Dial laser indicating the wood that will disappear, small and
>>>> relatively lite weight, pretty good dust collection, the angle
>>>> finder/setup thingey, and lot's of good reviews. I saw a video of a 7
>>>> year old Kapex with dents and dings that gets carried to the jobsite
>>>> every day, the carpenter/owner still swears by it. Apparently it fell
>>>> out of his truck with no issues resulting.
>>>
>>> The dust collection on my Bosch is miserable (read: useless). It
>>> sprays splinters everywhere except into the blade safety cover and
>>> exhaust port. If I replace it, space is my primary motivation with
>>> dust collect a close second.
>>>
>>
>> I'm right there with you on those thoughts. I want the saw to be easily
>> moved, set up, and take up little space when not in use.
>
> I'm not so interested in moving it. I have a HF 10" CMS that works
> well enough for things I'd want to do outside (I have to do some
> siding in the spring).

Everything in my shop is mobile regardless of size. I find that I move
every thing to an optimum spot for use. Same would go for the miter saw
and because most miter saw stations are relatively permanent if you want
to be able to make long repeated cuts the Kapex set up fits the bill for
me. Yes I could get pretty damn good for less than half price but
space, even in a 3 car garage, is beginning to shrink. No room for a
permanent station.

>>
>> Have you seen this?
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAkF733INM
>
> Yes, I've seen it. I can see where it would be perfect for a
> carpenter, where portability and setup time is a priority. I have one
> of these, with an extra set of mounting hardware so I can use it with
> either the Bosch or HF.
>
> <http://www.dewalt.com/products/accessories/tool-accessories/saw-accessories/miter-saw-accessories-and-stands/heavy-duty-miter-saw-stand/dwx723>

Looks good but kinda hard to move around on a whim. ;~)

>
> However, I'm not at all happy with the rigidity of any of the Festool
> stands/tables. IMO, the router table is simply dangerous and I don't
> need portable. I'd rather have storage space.

Understood! But the saw needs to be rigid more so than the stand. The
Festool extensions only have to hold a board up and provide a repeatable
stop. BUT i'll try one out at the Festool road show on Monday.
Actually my local Woodcraft recently switched to the Kapex set up in its
lumber section. I could probably try that one too.

>
>> This one shows the caps for the extensions and how it all fits together.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHN4xGvKGRc
>>
>> And this one seems to prove the saw will hold up.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYal6minkE
>
> AIUI, there have also been problems with Kapexes (Kapi?) burning up.
> There is pretty consistent chatter on the FOG about this. FWIG by
> reading the FOG is that Festool didn't handle the situation well,
> either. Dunno, $1500 is a bunch of money/
>

I have not heard about burning up problems, I do know the early ones had
an issue with changing the miter angle. I'll have to look into that
too. $1500 is a bunch of money, but I think I would be more likely to
drag the assembly out and use it over another set up.

Thanks for the info!

[k...@notreal.com]

I believe the "ChopMaster" is set up for a SCMS. Is there a 12" WWII?

[DerbyDad03]

I'm not sure what you are saying there. The image below is from the first
glide saw I received from Amazon. The marks were there regardless of the
blade used, even ones that worked fine on the old Delta. (I tried 3 different
blades on the Bosch just to be sure it wasn't the Bosch blade that came with
the saw.)

Once the saw itself was swapped out, that "tooth gouge" was gone. The saw
was definitely defective.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 20:53:17 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 12/8/2017 8:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 17:37:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>> I'm not so interested in moving it. I have a HF 10" CMS that works
>> well enough for things I'd want to do outside (I have to do some
>> siding in the spring).
>
>Everything in my shop is mobile regardless of size. I find that I move
>every thing to an optimum spot for use. Same would go for the miter saw
>and because most miter saw stations are relatively permanent if you want
>to be able to make long repeated cuts the Kapex set up fits the bill for
>me. Yes I could get pretty damn good for less than half price but
>space, even in a 3 car garage, is beginning to shrink. No room for a
>permanent station.

I have a lot of space (~2000 ft^2) but it's cut up by (unfinished)
walls under the walls on the first floor. There is one long room that
would be good for the SCMS. It's right next to my DC, as well. It
wouldn't be a huge advantage to move it.

>
>>>
>>> Have you seen this?
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAkF733INM
>>
>> Yes, I've seen it. I can see where it would be perfect for a
>> carpenter, where portability and setup time is a priority. I have one
>> of these, with an extra set of mounting hardware so I can use it with
>> either the Bosch or HF.
>>
>> <http://www.dewalt.com/products/accessories/tool-accessories/saw-accessories/miter-saw-accessories-and-stands/heavy-duty-miter-saw-stand/dwx723>
>
>Looks good but kinda hard to move around on a whim. ;~)

Not hard at all. Two levers pop the saw/table off the unit (though
the saw is heavy). The legs fold up, inside and there is a handle on
the bottom to carry it. It is pretty easy to move, though it's not
light. I like it because the supports can be extended 6' on either
side of the saw.

<...>

[Leon]

Yes there is a 12" WWII and quite pricey. AND Yes, the ChopMaster
would be the correct blade for the MS.

[Leon]

Understood but you had that issue and IIRC a recent issue with some
cheap blades cutting plywood.

[Leon]

I'm looking more at a stand that the saw does not have to be removed to
be mobile. I might, like my TS, move the saw station a 3~4 times in a
single day. But I understand what you are saying about the one you have.

[Sonny]

On Friday, December 8, 2017 at 9:02:16 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:

>
> I believe the "ChopMaster" is set up for a SCMS. Is there a 12" WWII?

https://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker-ii-all-purpose-saw-blade-for-table-saws/

[Sonny]

https://www.forrestblades.com/chopmaster/

[Leon]

LOL, and don't think the Miter Master Saw Blade. I'm not sure if this
is for a MS or TS.

https://www.forrestblades.com/miter-master-saw-blade-for-the-ultimate-in-miter-cuts/

[k...@notreal.com]

I also have one of these that I use for my PC planer. It wouldn't be
nearly as good for an SCMS because it's not as long. But I agree with
you, for this use the Festool is a better solution, if for no other
reason than its weight. These solutions are a lot heavier (though
also a lot cheaper - maybe $50 per pound ;-). As I said before,
though, I'm not happy with the stability of any of the Festool stands
or tables. I like things with sharp spinning things to stay still.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 9 Dec 2017 06:25:45 -0800 (PST), Sonny <cedar...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, December 8, 2017 at 9:02:16 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I believe the "ChopMaster" is set up for a SCMS. Is there a 12" WWII?
>
>https://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker-ii-all-purpose-saw-blade-for-table-saws/

For some reason, I've never seen that web page before. A 16" WWII!
Who wudda thunk? Considering its size, the price isn't that bad,
either.

[Markem]

On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 20:53:17 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>I have not heard about burning up problems, I do know the early ones had
>an issue with changing the miter angle. I'll have to look into that
>too. $1500 is a bunch of money, but I think I would be more likely to
>drag the assembly out and use it over another set up.
>
>Thanks for the info!

Okay this is probably not what you want but it is portable and only
$119.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CABLE-10-in-15-Amp-Single-Bevel-Laser-Folding-Compound-Miter-Saw/1000212097

But it folds up.

[Leon]

Just don't let go of the handle till the thing stops bouncing around. LOL

[Leon]

;~) I think it is about $2300 less than what I want to pay. ;~) I
did look at one of those earlier this week. I doubt it is going to give
me cabinet saw quality cuts.

[DerbyDad03]

I see. Those 2 incidents were totally unrelated. One was a defective saw, the
other was a cheap plywood blade. Both issues have now been resolved. :-)

[k...@notreal.com]

Three holes for the price of one!

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2017 12:23:52 -0600, Markem <mark...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

That's not what I would want either but it is a slick product. Nice
design.

[Leon]

Good! So your are liking the Bosch glide SCMS?

[Leon]

The concept is a winner, but for $119 there have to be some compromises
on quality, I would think.

[k...@notreal.com]

Sure. A 3-1/2" cut, with a 10" blade isn't all that interesting,
either. It's obviously designed for construction, not furniture
making.

[DerbyDad03]

On Saturday, December 9, 2017 at 7:22:16 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 12/9/2017 5:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 9, 2017 at 9:22:34 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 12/8/2017 9:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Friday, December 8, 2017 at 9:41:56 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

> >>>> On 12/8/2017 7:41 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:k

Well, what it needs is a good test by a knowledgable woodworker before a quality
review could be published. Are you coming north any time soon? You're already
used to snow. ;-)

[Leon]

LOL.. Where north?

[DerbyDad03]

Check out the highlights of today's Bills-Colts game. North enough that I had
season's tickets during the 4-Super-Bowls-In-A-Row era. (no pun intended).

I sat through many a game (and tailgate party) in conditions like they're
having today. My lake is a little to the right of their lake, so we don't get
as much Lake Effect snow as they do. Still, I'm only a mile from my lake, so
I get my share.

[DerbyDad03]

Maybe I spoke too soon. We just a got a Lake Effect Snow warning for my area.

Tickets for the Bills game were going for $5 this morning.

[Leon]

Went to this this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=O0bS3xVnA0g

This is worth going to. I got a 5 amp 18 bolt battery, charger, Granat
sanding sponge pack, Festool Road Tour cap, Festool carry bag, catalog,
and a "sticker". This was free.

I also got a Kapex, stand, and support arms capable of 94.5" repeatable
cuts. That was not free.

It will be in SA on Saturday, Robert.

I will say that I ran into 4~6 people that already own the Kapex and
many have had the saw 5+ years, including a local small business. They
all could not say enough about the saw. The brothers that have their
own business gave me a few pointers for cutting crown moldings and for
cutting small pieces so that they don't get sucked up into the dust
collection.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:41:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>Went to this this morning.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=O0bS3xVnA0g

The one I went to last week had the sides up and heat on. It was
*cold*. ;-)

>
>This is worth going to. I got a 5 amp 18 bolt battery, charger, Granat
>sanding sponge pack, Festool Road Tour cap, Festool carry bag, catalog,
>and a "sticker". This was free.

They shorted me the sandpaper. :-(

>
>I also got a Kapex, stand, and support arms capable of 94.5" repeatable
>cuts. That was not free.

You bought it from the store, though, right? They said they didn't
sell stuff.

>
>It will be in SA on Saturday, Robert.
>
>I will say that I ran into 4~6 people that already own the Kapex and
>many have had the saw 5+ years, including a local small business. They
>all could not say enough about the saw. The brothers that have their
>own business gave me a few pointers for cutting crown moldings and for
>cutting small pieces so that they don't get sucked up into the dust
>collection.

Did you ask about the reports of them burning up?

[Leon]

On 12/11/2017 8:32 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:41:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> Went to this this morning.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=O0bS3xVnA0g
>
> The one I went to last week had the sides up and heat on. It was
> *cold*. ;-)
>>
>> This is worth going to. I got a 5 amp 18 bolt battery, charger, Granat
>> sanding sponge pack, Festool Road Tour cap, Festool carry bag, catalog,
>> and a "sticker". This was free.
>
> They shorted me the sandpaper. :-(

Well I ended up with an 18 volt battery that will not work on my 15 volt
drill. LOL. But if I grind that tab a little it will fit. I wondering
if the 3 extra volts will harm the electronics.... The motor should be
able to handle it.

>>
>> I also got a Kapex, stand, and support arms capable of 94.5" repeatable
>> cuts. That was not free.
>
> You bought it from the store, though, right? They said they didn't
> sell stuff.

Yes the store.... Before 12 noon the store sold 5 Dominoes. and at
least one Kapex. :~)

>>
>> It will be in SA on Saturday, Robert.
>>
>> I will say that I ran into 4~6 people that already own the Kapex and
>> many have had the saw 5+ years, including a local small business. They
>> all could not say enough about the saw. The brothers that have their
>> own business gave me a few pointers for cutting crown moldings and for
>> cutting small pieces so that they don't get sucked up into the dust
>> collection.
>
> Did you ask about the reports of them burning up?
>

Yes I did. The rep indicated that it is hard to say what the issue may
have been. He suggested, and I tend to agree, that it is probably the
guys that use the saw heavily and daily and brutally. He thinks they
may not be letting the soft start motor coming up to speed before
plunging the cut. I'm thinking that the typical miter saw lasts 3~5
years when being carried to multiple work sites and they may being
abused too...

I don't have much concern at all about it. I was surprised that there
were so many owners and tradesmen that owned the Kapex at the show.
they all said I would be glad that I bought it. All of those guys and
one gal, sounded like me when I preach the Domino.

About the lady, I suspect she was in her mid to late 60's retired and
loved woodworking for a hobby. She has the Kapex, both the large and
small Domino, track saw, sanders.....but no drill yet. ;~) She seemed
to walk the walk.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 21:47:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/11/2017 8:32 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:41:48 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Went to this this morning.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=O0bS3xVnA0g
>>
>> The one I went to last week had the sides up and heat on. It was
>> *cold*. ;-)
>>>
>>> This is worth going to. I got a 5 amp 18 bolt battery, charger, Granat
>>> sanding sponge pack, Festool Road Tour cap, Festool carry bag, catalog,
>>> and a "sticker". This was free.
>>
>> They shorted me the sandpaper. :-(
>
>Well I ended up with an 18 volt battery that will not work on my 15 volt
>drill. LOL. But if I grind that tab a little it will fit. I wondering
>if the 3 extra volts will harm the electronics.... The motor should be
>able to handle it.

Works in my Carvex and Sheetrock driver. ;-)

>>> I also got a Kapex, stand, and support arms capable of 94.5" repeatable
>>> cuts. That was not free.
>>
>> You bought it from the store, though, right? They said they didn't
>> sell stuff.
>
>Yes the store.... Before 12 noon the store sold 5 Dominoes. and at
>least one Kapex. :~)

Five Dominoes is impressive.

>>> It will be in SA on Saturday, Robert.
>>>
>>> I will say that I ran into 4~6 people that already own the Kapex and
>>> many have had the saw 5+ years, including a local small business. They
>>> all could not say enough about the saw. The brothers that have their
>>> own business gave me a few pointers for cutting crown moldings and for
>>> cutting small pieces so that they don't get sucked up into the dust
>>> collection.
>>
>> Did you ask about the reports of them burning up?
>>
>
>Yes I did. The rep indicated that it is hard to say what the issue may
>have been. He suggested, and I tend to agree, that it is probably the
>guys that use the saw heavily and daily and brutally. He thinks they
>may not be letting the soft start motor coming up to speed before
>plunging the cut. I'm thinking that the typical miter saw lasts 3~5
>years when being carried to multiple work sites and they may being
>abused too...
>
>I don't have much concern at all about it. I was surprised that there
>were so many owners and tradesmen that owned the Kapex at the show.
>they all said I would be glad that I bought it. All of those guys and
>one gal, sounded like me when I preach the Domino.

;-) I don't think you'll find the Kapex to be quite as unique,
though.

>About the lady, I suspect she was in her mid to late 60's retired and
>loved woodworking for a hobby. She has the Kapex, both the large and
>small Domino, track saw, sanders.....but no drill yet. ;~) She seemed
>to walk the walk.

Was the German woman there? She gave a mean presentation of their
twitching tool. Almost convinced me it was worth the money. ;-)

[Leon]

There was a young woman there but I did not speak with her. She was
overseeing the drill area. Twitching tool? Would that be the multimaster
with a Festool name on it?


I still cannot wrap my head around all of the people that owned the Kapex.
And for most it was not their first mitersaw.

[k...@notreal.com]

I don't think she was that young. Well comparatively, sure. ;-)

Yes, but does the Multimaster have the same attachments? I don't know
what it's called but the pad that is used for plunge cutting is really
sweet.

>I still cannot wrap my head around all of the people that owned the Kapex.
> And for most it was not their first mitersaw.

It's certainly one of the best as a worksite saw.

[nailsh...@aol.com]

OK, Leon. So the saw will be in San Antonio on Saturday? Does that mean your happy self with be here, too? Are they shipping it to the local Woodcraft on 281?

On another note, I don't know what "tradesmen" use Kapex out on a jobsite. Believe me, I know many, many carpenters, trimmers, cabinet installers, remodelers, and a few custom cabinet makers. Not one, seriously, with all my contacts of 42 years of doing this work, not one uses a Kapex. Could the guys you saw be some wannabes?

No one is doubting the quality of the tool or the quality of its output. First, you simply don't need that kind of accuracy using today's current building methods. Most important, you might as well hang a neon sign on a saw like that asking someone to steal it. Most of us work out of pickups... where could you hide it?

The standard around here for trimmers is the DeWalt products. Good/great accuracy, sturdy build, parts for repair are available over the counter, and they have good service life. My last DeWalt 713 lasted 22 years. It rode from job to job in the back ofthe truck. I couldn't tell you how many thousand feet of all kinds of trim that thing cut. It still runs, but the lift handle broke and it exposed wiring so it is unsafe until I find a good ABS glue.

I loved that saw enough to run right out and get another rendition of that same model. Granted, I wouldn't let anyone else use it, and it was treated very well because I didn't want to knock it out of my adjustment. I took a lot of time to fine tune it as needed. But I paid something like $190 bucks for it, and you can replace it now for something like $220. That saw is a steal.

Anyway...

Robert

[J. Clarke]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:27:13 -0800 (PST), "nailsh...@aol.com"
<nailsh...@aol.com> wrote:

>OK, Leon. So the saw will be in San Antonio on Saturday? Does that mean your happy self with be here, too? Are they shipping it to the local Woodcraft on 281?
>
>On another note, I don't know what "tradesmen" use Kapex out on a jobsite. Believe me, I know many, many carpenters, trimmers, cabinet installers, remodelers, and a few custom cabinet makers. Not one, seriously, with all my contacts of 42 years of doing this work, not one uses a Kapex. Could the guys you saw be some wannabes?
>
>No one is doubting the quality of the tool or the quality of its output.

Actually quite a few people are doubting the quality of the tool. Read
the negative reviews on Amazon--burned out motors seem to be
commonplace.

[Leon]

Yeah! Younger'n me. LOL

>
> Yes, but does the Multimaster have the same attachments? I don't know
> what it's called but the pad that is used for plunge cutting is really
> sweet.

NO, I don't think so.. Festool adds a lot of premium features to the tool
over what Fein offers IRC.

[Leon]

nailsh...@aol.com <nailsh...@aol.com> wrote:
> OK, Leon. So the saw will be in San Antonio on Saturday? Does that mean
> your happy self with be here, too? Are they shipping it to the local Woodcraft on 281?

Check the Festool Road show schedule or call your little cal woodcraft to
find out the details. I saw the schedule for the show and they will follow
SA with Austin, Dallas AND Ft Worth. It really is a very cool setup
with Festool guys that can answer any question you may have.

>
> On another note, I don't know what "tradesmen" use Kapex out on a
> jobsite. Believe me, I know many, many carpenters, trimmers, cabinet
> installers, remodelers, and a few custom cabinet makers. Not one,
> seriously, with all my contacts of 42 years of doing this work, not one
> uses a Kapex. Could the guys you saw be some wannabes?

Neither did I but out of the 4 -5 I met a couple were in the business.
They had all kinds of suggestions of how they use theirs and how they have
theirs set up to cut crowns.

>
> No one is doubting the quality of the tool or the quality of its output.
> First, you simply don't need that kind of accuracy using today's current
> building methods. Most important, you might as well hang a neon sign on a
> saw like that asking someone to steal it. Most of us work out of
> pickups... where could you hide it?

Agreed with the need for accuracy on the job site. Of the trades, guys 2
were brothers, about our age and nationality. :-). They for years were
trim carpenters and apparently hauled the Kapex to the job site. With two
of them I guess there are twice as many eyes on guard. IIRC they got the
saw about 7 years ago. They did say that they were going more towards
custom Furnature and were not doing any or as much trim any more.

For me, I want the accuracy and quality of cut. I often have the TS set
up for a particular cut and need to make other quality cuts. Can I justify
the cost? NOOOO. It was the whole package. Very small foot print when
not in use. Very easy to move and set up. Very quick to set and tear
down,including the wing extensions on both sides. I think it takes about 2
minutes to pull it out and set up for repeatable cutstyo to 94.5".

>
> The standard around here for trimmers is the DeWalt products. Good/great
> accuracy, sturdy build, parts for repair are available over the counter,
> and they have good service life. My last DeWalt 713 lasted 22 years. It
> rode from job to job in the back ofthe truck. I couldn't tell you how
> many thousand feet of all kinds of trim that thing cut. It still runs,
> but the lift handle broke and it exposed wiring so it is unsafe until I
> find a good ABS glue.
>
> I loved that saw enough to run right out and get another rendition of
> that same model. Granted, I wouldn't let anyone else use it, and it was
> treated very well because I didn't want to knock it out of my adjustment.
> I took a lot of time to fine tune it as needed. But I paid something
> like $190 bucks for it, and you can replace it now for something like
> $220. That saw is a steal.
>
> Anyway...
>
> Robert
>
>

Understood. :-). I won't be lending mine out either. Kim talked me into
it. I think she got tired of me fondling the Kapex at the store.

[Leon]

On 12/13/2017 7:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:27:13 -0800 (PST), "nailsh...@aol.com"
> <nailsh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> OK, Leon. So the saw will be in San Antonio on Saturday? Does that mean your happy self with be here, too? Are they shipping it to the local Woodcraft on 281?
>>
>> On another note, I don't know what "tradesmen" use Kapex out on a jobsite. Believe me, I know many, many carpenters, trimmers, cabinet installers, remodelers, and a few custom cabinet makers. Not one, seriously, with all my contacts of 42 years of doing this work, not one uses a Kapex. Could the guys you saw be some wannabes?
>>
>> No one is doubting the quality of the tool or the quality of its output.
>
> Actually quite a few people are doubting the quality of the tool. Read
> the negative reviews on Amazon--burned out motors seem to be
> commonplace.

The speculation as to why this was happening was explained as possibly
not letting the soft start come up to speed before plunge cutting.

[Leon]

On 12/13/2017 8:14 AM, Leon wrote:
> nailsh...@aol.com <nailsh...@aol.com> wrote:
>> OK, Leon. So the saw will be in San Antonio on Saturday? Does that mean
>> your happy self with be here, too? Are they shipping it to the local Woodcraft on 281?
>
> Check the Festool Road show schedule or call your little cal woodcraft to
> find out the details. I saw the schedule for the show and they will follow
> SA with Austin, Dallas AND Ft Worth. It really is a very cool setup
> with Festool guys that can answer any question you may have.

umm call your little cal, should have been call your local Woodcraft.

[nailsh...@aol.com]

Sorry. After reading your posts, I could tell by the justification of "practicality", "portability", "it would work well for me in my shop due to limited space"...

I knew you had already purchased it!!!

Like The Hulk, you have a certain amount of that Festool green blood that flows through your veins!

I just didn't know where it was going to be shipped. I thought in anticipation of your new Christmas gift you might not have wanted to wait for them to show up in Houston, and to speed things along might have decided to pick one up here.

BTW, Kathy should have an answer on her time off this Friday.

Robert

[Leon]

On 12/13/2017 1:28 PM, nailsh...@aol.com wrote:
> Sorry. After reading your posts, I could tell by the justification of "practicality", "portability", "it would work well for me in my shop due to limited space"...

Yes, It all just made sense for me and MY particular reason and
application. I will say that I looked long and hard at the Fast Cap
mobile miter saw stand. They have about 8~10 versions all based on the
same concept. For about the same setup as the Festool stand set up I
could get the upper end Fast Cap version but it is not really "well
designed" to be put away in a "handle and 2 wheels" vertical position.
It looked like it could be tipped over very easily. I would have to
attach it to something stable when not in use. Other wise pretty well
thought out, and certainly heavier.

>
> I knew you had already purchased it!!!

Humm.

>
> Like The Hulk, you have a certain amount of that Festool green blood that flows through your veins!

I think Karl made a similar comment about the green. LOL

> I just didn't know where it was going to be shipped.

The local Woodcraft had it in stock, that is where the Festool Road Show
tractor trailer showed up. I still had doubts about that much money for
something I really did not need, and the alternative at a substantial
savings, the 12" Bosch Glide SCMS. While I was inspecting the Kapex on
the trailer 4~5 people, non Festool people, came up behind me and
started telling me their experience with the saw. I can imagine how I
sound here when commenting about the Domino. It was not until I was
loading the purchase in my truck that the 2 brothers, that do this for a
living, stopped and reassured me that I was going to really like the
saw. We probably talked for 15 minutes and we exchanged cards.

I thought in anticipation of your new Christmas gift you might not
have wanted to wait for them to show up in Houston, and to speed things
along might have decided to pick one up here.

No I really wanted to go to the show, BTW it is still boxed, all 3
boxes, and in the garage. I wanted to talk to the Festool guys that are
experts on the saw. They demoed it, broke it down into take it away
position, and back up ready to cut in a minute or two. Those guys can
answer questions, that people that actually use their tools, will ask.
And the first question I had was about the motors burning up. Naturally
he was not going to bad mouth the product he was selling but given the
reputation and his explanation I was less concerned about any problems.

Seriously, you should check the show out If you can get there. Keep in
mind that they are only there for about 3-4 hours. They GIVE you about
$200 worth of stuff which you may or may not be able to use but
still..... the cap is nice and you certainly can use the Granat sanding
sponges. ;~)

I still have some circuit breakers to give you. LOL.


Found the time, date, and location.

Event Details
Woodcraft of San Antonio

13719 San Pedro Ave
San Antonio, TX 78232 United States
San Antonio, TX
Sat, December 16, 2017
10:00 am - 2:00 pm

>
> BTW, Kathy should have an answer on her time off this Friday.

Not a problem. We will be busy with parties on the Friday and Saturday
Christmas weekend, 22nd and 23rd. I suspect you will be lending your
hand taking care of our great warriors but even still I'm certain that
you and Kathy will be welcomed at both parties. Bryan and Hannah's
house and another couple, our age, that we have really become quite
close with.

Leon

[Leon]

http://www.festoolroadshow.com/event/san-antonio-2017/