Sears to sell Craftsman to Stanley/B&D

[Leon]

Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-sell-craftsman-tool-brand-stanley-black-decker-140907321--finance.html

[notbob]

On 2017-01-05, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
> And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.

Yet another step down.

nb

[woodchucker]

Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

The craftsman line is not what it once was. Too bad. But don't look to
Stanley, B&D to bring it back. They are horrendous at managing the tool
lines..

Dewalt, B&D, Milwaukee, Stanley, are all former shells of what they once
were. The latest one to drop was Milwaukee, with people lamenting that
the quality has dropped.

Even B&D coffee maker sucks now.

I don't see this as a bad thing, nor a good thing.


--
Jeff

---
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[FrozenNorth]

Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/

--
Froz....

[DerbyDad03]

I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.

[Michael]

Does not bode well for quality but I've got a few Craftsman tools and for parts and service I'm glad a company without a foot in the grave will take over.

[Ed Pawlowski]

They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
before Amazon started up.

[Leon]

On 1/5/2017 1:33 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/5/2017 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
>> Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
>> And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.
>>
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-sell-craftsman-tool-brand-stanley-black-decker-140907321--finance.html
>>
>>
>
> Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
> If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Sears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.
They will still sell Craftsman but will not get the lions share of the
profit from the sales. Right/in the next couple of years they get
$900,000,000.

>
> I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
> been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
> store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

I have been watching the financials, Sears has been doing poorly for a
very long time, not just in the last couple of years. IMHO they and
Macey's were too wide spread, big cities do not need 10 stores,
customers will drive to those stores if they want their products.

[Leon]

On 1/5/2017 3:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
>> And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.
>>
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-sell-craftsman-tool-brand-stanley-black-decker-140907321--finance.html
>
> I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
> Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.

Wow, Kenmore has had a good reputation and is exclusive to Sears. If
they get rid of that brand there really will be no reason for me to go
to their stores. But really Kenmore is simply a rebadged Whirlpool,
Amana, GE, or Bosch appliance.

>
> I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
> begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.
>

IIRC they have had 20 straight loosing quarters, they have to reduce
their fixed expenses to a manageable level and get rid of the
non-profitable stores.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

>> Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
>> And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-sell-craftsman-tool-brand-stanley-black-decker-140907321--finance.html
>>


>Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.
>
>http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/

I heard that they were considering groceries ...
" stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
John T.

[Markem]

Kenmore is just other appliance manufacturers relabeled, guess some
one will buy, P T Barnum is right again. DieHard the same thing.

[Unquestionably Confused]

It's interesting but this announcement and several posts here on the rec
with regard to the history of Craftsman Tools caused me to Google it a
bit. If you're interested in this sort of thing, there's a pretty good
Wiki at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsman_(tools)

There are several other discussions out there that provide interesting
insight to the brand as well.

Takeaways?

1) Marion-Craftsman Tools, from whom Sears bought the trade name,
doesn't appear to have been a major player. They may have had a product
line involving "Ford Wrench(s)" but they seem to be fairly obscure.

2) Sears has NEVER manufactured any of its own tools (hand or powered).
Most are contract pieces from other manufacturer's, sometimes nearly
identical to their other products or with some added feature exclusive
to the Craftsman brand.

3) Same thing goes for Kenmore, DieHard and that old second line of
Sears hand and power tools, Dunlap followed by Companion.

End of an era, I suppose. Sad to see them go this way.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

Sears today supposedly has value because of all the real estate it owns-occupies in malls across the country. Not because it has retail sales. The sales side started dying awhile ago. And likely will continue. K-Mart never upped its game to compete with Wal-Mart. So it is gone now. The Craftsman, Kenmore, Diehard brands are all good. But now days its easy to buy the same quality or better easily. No need to go to a Sears store.

And I do not know if the real estate value of Sears is good anymore either. I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be. Several of the older malls in my half million people town have slowly withered. There is a NEW mall that is a happening place. But older malls, no. New, yes. Times have changed and Sears did not change with them.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/5/2017 6:17 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Sears today supposedly has value because of all the real estate it owns-occupies in malls across the country. Not because it has retail sales. The sales side started dying awhile ago. And likely will continue. K-Mart never upped its game to compete with Wal-Mart. So it is gone now. The Craftsman, Kenmore, Diehard brands are all good. But now days its easy to buy the same quality or better easily. No need to go to a Sears store.
>
> And I do not know if the real estate value of Sears is good anymore either. I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be. Several of the older malls in my half million people town have slowly withered. There is a NEW mall that is a happening place. But older malls, no. New, yes. Times have changed and Sears did not change with them.
>

What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.

Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has been
3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I made a
purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according to NBC
news.

Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon it.

[Markem]

It is what they have to sell, the names. The bankers who bought Sear
and Kmart are now getting they're money back. It is the way most
mergers go.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 5:59:08 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/5/2017 6:17 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > And I do not know if the real estate value of Sears is good anymore either. I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be. Several of the older malls in my half million people town have slowly withered. There is a NEW mall that is a happening place. But older malls, no. New, yes. Times have changed and Sears did not change with them.
> >
>
> What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.
>

I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

>> What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.
>>
>
> I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.
>

I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is usually
leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease that what
the space is worth.

I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
other two are 75% empty.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 14:33:29 -0500, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

>On 1/5/2017 1:40 PM, Leon wrote:
>> Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
>> And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.
>>
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-sell-craftsman-tool-brand-stanley-black-decker-140907321--finance.html
>>
>
>Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
>If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Turn the ones you don't close into K-Marts? ...and then close them
next year?

>I think Sears will go out of business shortly. Been 2 years that I have
>been waiting for them to give up. Last Christmas, no one was in the
>store I went to, while all the other stores were packed.

There isn't a Sears store anywhere close to me, so I rarely go there
(even though I have a Sears lawn tractor). One of the stores, on the
other side of town, is in a mall that's so empty that a Korean grocery
store moved into one of the anchor stores. There are so few people in
the mall that you could roll a bowling ball down the middle of the
mall at any time of day and not hit anyone. Nice mall, absolutely
nothing there.

[k...@notreal.com]

Around here, the more "modern" strip malls seem to be doing fine. The
ones that have been let go, well, their anchor is a Good Will. A few
malls were completely rebuilt three or four years ago. They're doing
fine, too. There aren't any indoor malls in the immediate area. I
think the closest is about 25mi (the opposite direction of our normal
shopping).

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/5/2017 9:05 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

>> Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save Sears.
>> If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?
>
> Turn the ones you don't close into K-Marts? ...and then close them
> next year?

The one in our town started at a K Mart, then became a Sears Essential,
the back to K Mart. Closed last year.

[Unknown]

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in
news:e5BbA.167294$BE2....@fx22.iad:

>
> What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is
> over.
>
> Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
> month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has
> been 3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I
> made a purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according
> to NBC news.
>
> Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon
> it.

Malls are now all about the shallow side of the human: cell phones,
clothes, etc. The stores that capture and captivate your attention are
rare. There used to be a Radioshack in every mall (you've got questions,
we've got cell phones!), as well as a KB Toys. Some still have
bookstores, but even they are going to standalone stores.

I bet Macy's would let you place orders without underwear on. Never seen
"no shoes, no shirt, no underwear, no service." (I have seen "no shoes,
no shirt, no pants, no service.") :-)

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

[Martin Eastburn]

They won't go out until they get the second payment. Might be
closing more but not gone. Once the second payment is in their
hands, all bets are off. the cash rebate might never happen...

Martin

On 1/5/2017 1:33 PM, woodchucker wrote:

[Unknown]

hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote in
news:9igt6cd7lqkak1g6o...@4ax.com:

>
>
>>Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.
>>
>>http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/
>
>
>
> I heard that they were considering groceries ...
> " stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
> John T.
>

Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
especially on common hand tools like levels.

[Martin Eastburn]

The Big Book - the "Wish Book" at our house went years ago.

The large products / houses and such / closed out of catalogs but was in
large warehouses in Dallas. I went there with my father-in-law
to get something and we went into the tool building. They had lathes
and mills like the 50's. Wonder if they are still in south Dallas.
It was regular sales - low volume and get our money out of the stuff place.

Martin

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Up here the big malls are doing relatively well. Our local
"regional" mall has anchore space empty due to the collape od Target's
Canadian opperations. The big one across town is pretty well full -
but the Sears store is flounderinf with Walmart at the other end of
the mall. The Bay is doing well in both malls. These are indoor "all
weather" malls and will be linked by the new "rapid transit" rail
system "ION" which is under construction and delayed by Bombardier's
rail-car devision.

[woodchucker]

On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

My son primarily shops online.
The only stores he walks into are the supermarket, REI, and the skate
shop that supplies his hockey habit...

Other than that, 99% is Amazon.

I like to touch it feel it.. get an idea for the quality , but I hate
shopping. I haven't been in a big mall in a few years. We have a small
mall near here, and it's empty, really empty. Most space is not
occupied. It's like a ghost town.

So I'm not sure your right. I think the 20 somethings won't go shopping
in stores much.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper

<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote in
>news:9igt6cd7lqkak1g6o...@4ax.com:
>
>>
>>
>>>Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.
>>>
>>>http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/
>>
>>
>>
>> I heard that they were considering groceries ...
>> " stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
>> John T.
>>
>
>Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>especially on common hand tools like levels.
>
>Puckdropper

You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
you get right down to brass tacks.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/5/2017 11:37 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>> Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>> was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>> especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>
>> Puckdropper
> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
> you get right down to brass tacks.
>

How are we poorer for it? I never thought Sears had anything better
than other stores in terms of price, value, service. Never bough
Kenmore appliances but I do like my 50 year old Craftsman hand tools.

[Leon]

I believe it was merging with KMart that killed Sears. KMart had bad
deals going back in the early 90's.

[Unknown]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
4ax.com:

Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public to
do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.

Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing the
compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing that game.
If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your value is lower
and people will go where the value is higher. How does Sears make up the
missing value? Well, it used to be momentum and reputation... but that's
good for only a decade or two. "Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of
Craftsman tools, but they've been shying away from that as well.

Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment. Thing
is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are all over
the place.

[Markem]

On 06 Jan 2017 03:41:11 GMT, Puckdropper

<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in
>news:e5BbA.167294$BE2....@fx22.iad:
>
>>
>> What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is
>> over.
>>
>> Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
>> month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has
>> been 3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I
>> made a purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according
>> to NBC news.
>>
>> Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon
>> it.
>
>Malls are now all about the shallow side of the human: cell phones,
>clothes, etc. The stores that capture and captivate your attention are
>rare. There used to be a Radioshack in every mall (you've got questions,
>we've got cell phones!), as well as a KB Toys. Some still have
>bookstores, but even they are going to standalone stores.
>
>I bet Macy's would let you place orders without underwear on. Never seen
>"no shoes, no shirt, no underwear, no service." (I have seen "no shoes,
>no shirt, no pants, no service.") :-)

I recall the mall, it was every other store was a woman's shoe store.

[John McCoy]

woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in
news:YrSdnZPvJK0XAvPF...@ptd.net:

> Yep, not sure how selling off the better selling lines will save
> Sears. If you sell them, you get quick cash, but then what?

Sears management beleives (or has deluded themselves into
beleiving, or more likely is trying to delude the share-
holders into beleiving) that with a little time and investment
they can recover the business. With current costs exceeding
revenues, they have neither time nor funds to invest. Hence
the idea that selling assets will give them time & money to
fix the problem.

> I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
"how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
(and, of course, Amazon).

John

[Casper]

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> was heard to mutter:

>What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.
>Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
>month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has been
>3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I made a
>purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according to NBC
>news.

Depends on the mall. We've got too many malls in a small radius but
the success scale is all over the map. One enourmous mall is empty
(for several years now) except for an Outdoor World, which is already
slated to move this year. Another mall is so busy it's almost
impossible to get a parking space, especially on weekends. The
difference? Sears and the like are old and dead. Apple, Microsoft and
similar stores are now the huge business draw. On weekends you're
lucky to get a seat in the food court.

>Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon it.

ROFLMAO! Interesting priorities. As a long time shopper of NYC Macy's,
I thank you for not sharing that habit there. ;)

[John McCoy]

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:QZOdnbpFJasTtvLFnZ2dnUU7-
bOd...@giganews.com:

KMart was the "coup de grace" - and a great lesson in how to
use bankruptcy court to avoid all your mistakes and make a
fortune from other people's money - but Sears's problems go
way back before that.

Sears was once what Amazon is today - you could buy anything
from them. Mail in your order, and in a week or two go down
to the Railway Express Agency(*) and pick up your package.
With the arrival of mall culture in the 50's and 60's, Sears
let the catalog business fade away, and became just like a
hundred other department stores (most of which have long
since disappeared). Come the revival of mail-order, and
instead of Sears sitting pretty with an order processing and
shipping system already in place, they have nothing - and
the new guys take over that space.

Is it fair to fault 70's Sears management for not having any
vision to be different from Penney's (or Mays, or Foleys,
or Burdines, etc etc etc)? No, but the result of the lack
of vision will predictably give them the same result as most
of their 70's competitors.

John

(* REA was to Sears as UPS is to Amazon)

[John McCoy]

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in

news:1bzbA.318745$vF2.1...@fx43.iad:

> They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
> business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
> before Amazon started up.

Hah, I just posted a long post saying the same thing before
reading this one. You're quite correct in that thought.

John

[John McCoy]

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in

news:2RCbA.147377$Cx7.1...@fx11.iad:

> I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is
> usually leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease
> that what the space is worth.

Today Sears directly owns virtually no real estate, since
they restructured most of it into an REIT (which they still
mostly own, so indirectly they own the real estate). I have
read that around 1/3 of their stores were owned, rather than
leased.

> I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
> empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
> three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
> other two are 75% empty.

Two different expressions of the same problem...for big malls,
they got way over built in the 80's, and that situation is
slowly correcting itself. Around here about half the malls
that existed in the 80's have been torn down or repurposed,
the remaining half are doing well, since supply now matches
demand (more or less).

Strip malls are cyclical - there will be a shortage of strip
mall space, and several developers will rush in to build new
ones at the same time. Then there's a glut, and most of the
new space sits empty. Eventually demand will catch up with
supply, and then a new set of developers will build a new
surplus of strip space to sit empty for 3 or 4 years.

John

[Tim Daneliuk]

On 01/05/2017 03:54 PM, Leon wrote:
> ears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.

This has little to do with K-Mart. These traditional retailers
are getting their lunch handed to them because they did not
adapt to the world of eCommerce in a timely and effective way.

Amazon has set the bar very high for very fast delivery, great
pricing, and painless returns ... all from your living room. Some
traditional vendors figured this out. Some - Sears as one example -
did not. They're done for.

Capitalism and markets seek efficiency and punish the lack thereof
mercilessly. Creative Destruction is bad for individual actors,
but good for the marketplace overall.

[-MIKE-]

Like Radio Shack, they tried to stick with an outdated model and refused
to move from it until the market had passed them in the dust.

Sears was stuck in an "everything in one place" model that worked great
when people shopped once a week or less and had to plan a trip to do it.

When everybody became mobile and specialty stores started to dominate
the market, Sears stayed with their old, outdated model and were trapped
in denial. People no longer wanted to go to one store for everything.
They wanted to go to a clothing store (or several) for clothes, they
wanted to go to the huge electronics store for that stuff, they wanted
to go to the huge hardware store for tools, etc, etc.

What we complain about now, because we can do it all at home on Amazon,
was empowering and adventurous at the time. More choices, better
prices, price matching, all that stuff gave the consumer a sense of
having the upper hand. It was a game to win and you felt like you
accomplished something by driving around and finding the best deal.
Commissioned salespeople didn't help their cause either.

Sears never "got it" and never would. Even when Sears tried to play the
"price match" game, it was underhanded and deceitful. If they carried a
certain brand of widget, they'd force the manufacturer to change the
model number just enough (like adding a single digit suffix) so that
they could refuse to price match because "it wasn't the same model."

I would agree that the North American Public if it weren't for the fact
that all these other retailers were in the game, playing by the same
rules and they succeeded. No, Sears is just another wagon maker trying
to convince people they don't need a car.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[notbob]

On 2017-01-06, Puckdropper <puckdropper> wrote:

> Sears killed Sears.

Agree.

I'm almost 70, so I've seen Sears in action. Heck, I once worked at a
Sears store.

But, I recall in 70s or 80s, Sears auto depts were blatantly screwing
their customers and the CA Attorny General hadda slap 'em down. Later
I went into a Sears store that was advertising huge discounts on GE
washer/dryer sets. I went into the appliance dept and discovered
those huge dicounts were more like $20 off on an $800 washer. That's
hardly a discount. I won't bore you all with my other Sears horror
stories. Needless to say, I haven't shopped at a Sears in years. ;)

nb

[Leon]

FWIW and this may have changed, in the early 90's KMart acquired/teamed
up/became partners with Sears. According to the money
managers/investment strategists, that was handling the retirement funds
for the company that I worked for at that time, KMart was in dire
straights at that point. It was explained that their business plan,
KMart, and sales were doing very well.
The problem, as it was explained to us, is that KMart was a lot like
Walmart, a number of family members that ran KMart were retiring with
spectacular pensions. KMart was bleeding to death, even back then, from
the pension plans the the family members were collecting. Supposedly
the pension plans were literally draining all net profits and then some.

[Leon]

On 1/6/2017 10:56 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> On 01/05/2017 03:54 PM, Leon wrote:
>> ears cannot survive at this rate, thank you K-Mart.
>
> This has little to do with K-Mart. These traditional retailers
> are getting their lunch handed to them because they did not
> adapt to the world of eCommerce in a timely and effective way.

KMart needed extra funds, more money than their spectacular profits
could provide back in the early 90's. They needed funds to offset the
extremely high pension payments that retiring family owners were
collecting. As profitable as it was KMart could not sustain payments to
the owners that were collecting pensions. So you look for a profitable
company to help pay costs that the family members pensions would not
affect. Enter Sears.

>
> Amazon has set the bar very high for very fast delivery, great
> pricing, and painless returns ... all from your living room. Some
> traditional vendors figured this out. Some - Sears as one example -
> did not. They're done for.
>
> Capitalism and markets seek efficiency and punish the lack thereof
> mercilessly. Creative Destruction is bad for individual actors,
> but good for the marketplace overall.
>
>

While all of what you have said plays a factor, the problem started 25
years ago and it was not related to pricing, competition, or product
quality.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

Not to disparage you guys, but you are basically saying Sears should have been able to predict the future. Everything would be better if we could all do that. Sears did not predict the future so they did not use their catalog business to become the major retail seller of the future. If that is the logic you are using then we are all idiots because we did not invent Apple before Jobs and Wozniak did in 1976. Why didn't you know computers and mobile phones and online was the future? Are you stupid? Who sitting here today knew that buying stuff from home using a computer was the future? Shopping in stores was out?

[Keith Nuttle]

Sears is not alone in failing to understand the current marketing needs.
I was in a well known store that has announced the closing of a lot of
stores. It is a huge mall store on multiple levels.

We tried to buy something and after wandering the hole floor actually
found one person at a cash register who could make the sale. They don't
understand that if there is no one to make the sale the sale will not
happen.

On the other side of this I don't think that the electronic store will
ever take over the world. It is just like the death of the Desktop.
While the PC does not have the market share they once have there still
is a demand for them.

The reason that that e shopping will never replace the store, is the
reason that we were out shopping this morning. I bought a garment of
clothing that was of a marked size. I have worn this size for decades.
That garment did not fit. We had to go to the store and try on several
different sizes to find the garment in a size that fits. You can not go
down to the store and buy a pair of pants, with out trying them on.

When it comes to hardware, many times the specification for the item are
incomplete or miss leading. They only way you can get what you want is
to see it "in the flesh" look at the item turn it around to find if the
item has what you want.

On this line I have seen some neat things on line. But when you actually
get it, the dimensions have been miss represented and it is just two
large/small for the purpose intended.

[Leon]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Monday morning quarter backing is easy but non provable.

[Jack]

On 1/5/2017 6:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I bet it has been 3 years since I set foot in a mall,

I only go to malls to fight...
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

[Jack]

On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:

>> I think Sears will go out of business shortly.

> I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
> solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
> "how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
> on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
> (and, of course, Amazon).

I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found
them online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats
up, and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.

[John McCoy]

"russell...@yahoo.com" <russell...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:268d9830-2220-487e...@googlegroups.com:

> On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 10:15:58 AM UTC-6, John McCoy wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in
>> news:1bzbA.318745$vF2.1...@fx43.iad:
>>
>> > They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
>> > business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
>> > before Amazon started up.
>>
>> Hah, I just posted a long post saying the same thing before
>> reading this one. You're quite correct in that thought.
>>
>> John
>
> Not to disparage you guys, but you are basically saying Sears should
> have been able to predict the future.

Maybe you didn't read the other post? I specifically said they
couldn't be faulted for not seeing the future - but that the
result they got (as did many similar companies) is a predictable
result of not seeing the future.

John

[Jack]

I recall buying a sandblaster at a relatively new Sears store about
25/30 years ago. I looked for a salesman to sell me the thing for over
a half our. Finally I somehow found a manager bouncing around and
raised hell with him, asked him how long he thought they would be in
business if no one could find a salesman. Place closed about 3 years
later.

Also, about 2 years ago I needed some shelf brackets. Sears had them
for .79 cents apiece. I asked if they were mis-priced, as they should
be about a nickel each. Found them on line, 25 for $1.49.

When you have fools running a business, competition will kill you
eventually.

[John McCoy]

Keith Nuttle <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:o4otob$15aa$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

> The reason that that e shopping will never replace the store, is the
> reason that we were out shopping this morning. I bought a garment of
> clothing that was of a marked size. I have worn this size for decades.
> That garment did not fit. We had to go to the store and try on several
> different sizes to find the garment in a size that fits. You can not go
> down to the store and buy a pair of pants, with out trying them on.

Probably worth noting (since we're all dudes here) that this
is something women have suffered with for years. No two makers
of ladieswear use quite the same set of sizes - my girlfriend
can be a 4, 6, or 8, a XS, S, or M, and never knows until she
starts trying stuff on.

John

[John McCoy]

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:Yf2dnYKXGdBRcvLFnZ2dnUU7-
aPN...@giganews.com:

> While all of what you have said plays a factor, the problem started 25
> years ago and it was not related to pricing, competition, or product
> quality.

Actually, it was directly attributable to those things. Back
in the day, Sears was the best catalog store (so much so that
the others, like Wards, are barely remembered). When they moved
to direct retail, they weren't the best - in fact, they were
pretty much indistinquishable from J C Penney, Macys, Dillards,
or any of the other hundred similar stores that are no longer
around. Being just like the other stores means they're getting
the same result. To survive they would have somehow had to be
better than the others, and they weren't.

Of course, having the albatros of K-Mart hanging around their
neck hasn't helped.

John

[Joseph Gwinn]

On Jan 5, 2017, Ed Pawlowski wrote
(in article <1bzbA.318745$vF2.1...@fx43.iad>):

> On 1/5/2017 4:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> > > Apparently Craftsman was around before Sears acquired it 90 years ago.
> > > And now Sears is selling Craftsman tools to Stanley.
> > >
> > > http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-sell-craftsman-tool-brand-stanley-black
> > > -decker-140907321--finance.html
> >
> > I heard a (slightly) more in depth report this morning. They mentioned that
> > Sears is considering selling off the Kenmore and Die-Hard lines of business.
> >
> > I don't recall if it's just a consideration or if negotiations had already
> > begun. Either way, the company is dwindling into nothingness.

>
> They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
> business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
> before Amazon started up.

My recollection from the newspapers of the day is that the Catalog was losing
money, so after much agonizing, Sears closed its catalog, and laid 50,000
people off. I was stunned. The defense contractor I worked for at the time
had 20,000 employees, and produced far more paper than Sears Catalog ever
did. So, I can kinda guess what 20,000 of those Sears Catalog employees did,
which left the other 30,000 unaccounted for. With that kind of overstaffing,
no wonder they were losing money, with a bit of house cleaning, they could
have made money.


In the 1970s, I bought thousands of dollars worth of hand tools for working
on cars. Good stuff - still have and use it. The big debate of the day was if
Snap-On was worth their premium over Craftsman. Most of my friends did what I
did - Craftsman by default, Snap-On only if necessary.
The last technical thing I bought from Sears was an ordinary hose for
compressed air, probably 10 or 15 years ago. It was well made, but I
could’t get the hose to attach securely to threaded compressed air
connectors, like the Universal and IR and the like. It turned out that the
hose was equipped with oxygen fittings. My guess was that Sears had laid off
all the expensive grumpy old men who knew the difference, and who knew how to
use every tool Sears sold, and the newly-hired bright-eyed young thing
didn’t realize that air and oxygen are not quite the same thing.

I’d hazard that the self-defeating layoffs may have been a part of the
closing of the Catalog division.

Returned the hose, bought a Goodyear air hose from Home Depot. This hose
worked right from the box.

My guess that the Craftsman line will do better under Stanley/B&D, for all
their sins. At least Stanley/B&D know what an air hose is for. I wonder how
those bright-eyed young things will do under the new management.


Joe Gwinn

[Leon]

He said you guys not you.

[Leon]

On 1/6/2017 3:00 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>> I think Sears will go out of business shortly.
>
>> I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
>> solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
>> "how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
>> on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
>> (and, of course, Amazon).
>
> I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
> doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
> online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
> and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.
>
>

Not everything purchased through Amazon is supplied or sold by Amazon.
There are thousands of retailers selling their goods on Amazon and they
ship direct from their stores, and they have all different prices and
many are not even in the ball park of being competitively priced.

[Leon]

Not every store has a good location or a smart manager. One store does
not reflect the sum of the stores. Remember Woolco? The Woolco store
in Corpus Christi, TX would still be open today if it could have
continued to operate. I worked there when I was going to school. It
was not unusual at all for an ambulance to show up every weekend to haul
some one away. The store was so crowded that people passed out, no
kidding. Woolco was one of the first big stores to close.

>
> Also, about 2 years ago I needed some shelf brackets. Sears had them
> for .79 cents apiece. I asked if they were mis-priced, as they should
> be about a nickel each. Found them on line, 25 for $1.49.

You can always find a better deal but there is a price to pay for
getting the product right now vs. tomorrow or later.

I was reading that ACE hardware and Aldi were a couple of brand stores
that are doing well and growing. I went to ACE hardware a month ago to
buy 8 magnetic cabinet door catches. 8 would have cost me $26. I drove
4 miles north and got the 8 catches at HD for $3.

>
> When you have fools running a business, competition will kill you
> eventually.
>

True but there are many more factors the will sink you.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 00:16:21 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>On 1/5/2017 11:37 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>>> Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>>> was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>>> especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
>> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
>> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
>> you get right down to brass tacks.
>>
>
>

>How are we poorer for it? I never thought Sears had anything better
>than other stores in terms of price, value, service. Never bough
>Kenmore appliances but I do like my 50 year old Craftsman hand tools.
It's not just sears that is failing because of it. It is almost
impossible to buy decent quality merchandise any more because every
reseller is fighting for the bottom price - which also usually
translates to the bottomof the barrel.

And those places thar DO have better quality stuff available don't
have it "on the shelf" which means if you needed it yesterday or today
you are TOTALLY screwed - and if you need it tomorrow? - Lots a
luck!!.
In many cases even the cheap crap is "special order only" or only
available on-line.

On that basis, I maintain we are all "the poorer for it".

You don't have to agree - but that's MY view, from where I sit.

Today I just spent almost 3 hours locating a supplier for a
particular compact flourescent replacement bulb - none available
locally or within 5 days.

A few weeks ago I needed a 100 watt "compact flourescent" replacement
bulb - (mogul base, integrated ballast) and by calling the
manufacturer's agent, was able to get it tacked onto an open order
from a wholesaler in the next city down the highway and got it in 10
days without paying double the price to have it shipped special (and
we are not talking peanuts here - thebulb was $82 US wholesale, the
shipping another $78 plus brokerage!!!!!!) Needless to say, I ordered
2 so I don't have to go through that again when the next one blows
(there are 8? in the building.and they are all the same age - all on
the same switch)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 23:30:46 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 1/5/2017 10:37 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>> On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
>> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>>

>>> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote in
>>> news:9igt6cd7lqkak1g6o...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I heard that they were considering groceries ...
>>>> " stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
>>>> John T.

>>>>
>>>
>>> Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>>> was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>>> especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
>> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
>> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
>> you get right down to brass tacks.
>>
>
>

>I believe it was merging with KMart that killed Sears. KMart had bad

>deals going back in the early 90's.
Sears was dying bit by bit before the K-Mart merger. It may be the
merger is the only thing that kept it from dying right there. There
was not a long line of suitors lined up to buy it, was there???

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On 06 Jan 2017 05:34:59 GMT, Puckdropper

<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
>4ax.com:
>

>> On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
>> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>>>was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>>>especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>>
>>>Puckdropper
>> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
>> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
>> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
>> you get right down to brass tacks.
>>
>

>Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public to
>do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.
>
>Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing the
>compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing that game.
>If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your value is lower
>and people will go where the value is higher. How does Sears make up the
>missing value? Well, it used to be momentum and reputation... but that's
>good for only a decade or two. "Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of
>Craftsman tools, but they've been shying away from that as well.
>
>Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
>someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment. Thing
>is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are all over
>the place.
>
>Puckdropper

Up here in Ontario (and most of Canada) we still have Home Hardware
and Canadian Tire partly filling PART of that role. Canadian tire
used to be the place to go for low price and low quality. Today they
are a little more upscale than WalMart

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:14:25 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:QZOdnbpFJasTtvLFnZ2dnUU7-
>bOd...@giganews.com:
>
>> On 1/5/2017 10:37 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>>> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
>>> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
>>> you get right down to brass tacks.
>>
>> I believe it was merging with KMart that killed Sears. KMart had bad
>> deals going back in the early 90's.
>
>KMart was the "coup de grace" - and a great lesson in how to
>use bankruptcy court to avoid all your mistakes and make a
>fortune from other people's money - but Sears's problems go
>way back before that.
>
>Sears was once what Amazon is today - you could buy anything
>from them. Mail in your order, and in a week or two go down
>to the Railway Express Agency(*) and pick up your package.
>With the arrival of mall culture in the 50's and 60's, Sears
>let the catalog business fade away, and became just like a
>hundred other department stores (most of which have long
>since disappeared). Come the revival of mail-order, and
>instead of Sears sitting pretty with an order processing and
>shipping system already in place, they have nothing - and
>the new guys take over that space.

You could by a house, a car, a motorcycle, all your furniture, all
your clothing, all your tools and hardware - virtually anything you
needed "on line" (the phone line) back in the early years of Sears.
They were WAY ahead of their time. They totally lost touch by racing
all of their "competition" to the bottom.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Around here the new ones fill up - and the old ones sit empty -----

[woodchucker]

Shelf brackets for a nickel apiece 2 years ago??? Maybe 50 years ago

--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Ed Pawlowski]

When the future was already happening around them they still did
nothing. Yes, that is stupid. Even WalMart was late to the e-commerce
game and recently invested in (bought?) jet.com so they can catch up.
Check out the JC Penney web site to see a useless disaster. Sears is
just a link for items sold by others.

When the world shifted to using computers, Sears, Macy, Penny started to
investigate upgrading to electric typewriters.

Unlike Wozniak I did not have the ability to invent a PC, but I did
start using one in the 1980's. Some simple automated reports we use at
work today are descendants of the DOS things I did back then.

You don't have to invent technology to embrace and use it.

[Unknown]

John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:XnsA6F5A53BD13...@46.165.242.91:

>
> Probably worth noting (since we're all dudes here) that this
> is something women have suffered with for years. No two makers
> of ladieswear use quite the same set of sizes - my girlfriend
> can be a 4, 6, or 8, a XS, S, or M, and never knows until she
> starts trying stuff on.
>
> John
>

It's the same way with shoes. People keep insisting shoe sizes are the
same, but that just doesn't match my reality. I just sent back a size 9
boot to trade for an 8.5, but I have a 9.5 shoe that fits perfectly. The
boots I'm wearing now are 10's.

If I had my way about it, the foot would be measured and the shoe would
be specified to fit the measurements of the foot. The dimensions would
be inches or centimeters, not whatever measurement the manufacturer
decided to use today. Now you know your 25.5cm by 7.76cm (length by max
width across the ball of the foot) foot will likely match a 26cmx8cm
shoe.

Puckdropper

--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

[woodchucker]

On 1/6/2017 4:00 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/6/2017 10:57 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>> I think Sears will go out of business shortly.
>
>> I agree with you. I don't think they have a clue how to
>> solve their problems - they're still trying to figure out
>> "how do we compete with Walmart", when the world has moved
>> on and the real competition is the likes of Dollar General
>> (and, of course, Amazon).
>
> I recently mentioned I was looking to replace my Sony earphones. Amazon
> doubled the price from $14 to $27, plus shipping. I finally found them
> online at Walmart for $14 and free shipping. Walmart knows whats up,
> and if Amazon isn't careful, it will be in the bag with Sears/Kmart.
>
>

I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to $49... I
understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
$35.. That I got..

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/6/2017 3:46 PM, Leon wrote:

>>
>> Not to disparage you guys, but you are basically saying Sears should
>> have been able to predict the future. Everything would be better if
>> we could all do that. Sears did not predict the future so they did
>> not use their catalog business to become the major retail seller of
>> the future. If that is the logic you are using then we are all idiots
>> because we did not invent Apple before Jobs and Wozniak did in 1976.
>> Why didn't you know computers and mobile phones and online was the
>> future? Are you stupid? Who sitting here today knew that buying
>> stuff from home using a computer was the future? Shopping in stores
>> was out?
>>
>
> I think you hit the nail on the head.
>
> Monday morning quarter backing is easy but non provable.

No, this is not Monday morning, it is 16 years too late. Amazon stated
in 1994. Sears let many Mondays pass and is still not an internet
presence. They (and many others) ignored what was going on around them.

Auto dealers were losing ground and finally caught on a few years back.
My last car was bought at a dealer in 15 minutes after using on line
sources to get the best price. I sat down with the salesman he made an
offer. I told him what the numbers had to be and he said "no". I
showed him the numbers on my phone and in two minutes he met the deal.
The horseless carriage was just a novelty, as was the telephone,
television and most every advance and new technology.

I'm going to check out them new fax machines. I understand you can send
copies of things in minutes to another machine.

[woodchucker]

On 1/5/2017 11:37 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>

>> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote in
>> news:9igt6cd7lqkak1g6o...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.
>>>>
>>>> http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I heard that they were considering groceries ...
>>> " stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
>>> John T.
>>>
>>

>> Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>> was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>> especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>
>> Puckdropper
> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???

> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
> you get right down to brass tacks.
>

I disagree. Sears had a big hand in it. And yes the public did too.
But they did it because Sears was not servicing their needs. I grew up
on Long Island they had a store in Hicksville. Their largest from what I
understand. My dad and I were there 2 - 3 times a week. They had
hardware and tools. Then the hardware disappeared. Then the tool area
got really small. They were more interested in soft goods. Well
without the hardware we were now going every couple of weeks. You see
to us, that was their loss leader to get us in the store. My dad often
bought tools he didn't need because they were caught his interest while
he was there for hardware.

When I was in my 20's and now in NJ I needed to replace a broken breaker
bar, and some ratchets that didn't work. The salesman gave me a hard
time and told me that I should buy a 1/2 breaker bar since the 3/8
failed. I had to argue to get my just deserved warranty.. He said if it
broke I was miss using it, and it was too undersized. I had decided
that was too much work to get what was promised.

I also fell prey to the Die Hard battery scam. My short lived very
expensive car battery, that died hard and the pro rating wound up
costing me heavily for another battery that lasted a short time. I
replaced that with an Exide and was happy (1980s). I remember reading a
few years later that there was a scam of used or dead batteries being
given as new.. it's so long ago, I am sketchy on the details. But they
were charged and did face the charges. They admitted nothing, but would
offer something to people who were affected... Guilty as far as I am
concerned.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/6/2017 4:20 PM, John McCoy wrote:

>
> Of course, having the albatros of K-Mart hanging around their
> neck hasn't helped.
>
> John
>

But K-Mart bought Sears. Double albatross. K-Mart was always a
discounter but maybe 10 or so years ago they seemed to carry cheaper,
lower quality merchandise.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

From past experience, B&D could be the death knell for Craftsman. The
only thing B&D does well is marketing.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

But being aligned with Amazon, the (sheeple) public are convinced
they are getting the deal of the century - just because they bought it
online from Amazon - - - - - - .

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Hang on - 3dfax is coming - -

[-MIKE-]

I bought Prime and will never look back.
I think I got my money's worth in the first month.
Worth every penny and more.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The biggest problem with K-Mart stores around here was they never
had stock on the shelves.

Same problem with Target for the short time they were here. The
shelves were half empty, and their prices were nowhere near what the
prices were in US stores. Not only that, but they didn't even PRETEND
to carry half of the products Canadians used to cross the border to
buy at Target stores.

They could have had a large portion of Walmart's lunch, along with
quite a few other stores if they had done it right - - -

[Trenbidia]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 23:54:16 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:

> If I had my way about it, the foot would be measured and the shoe would
> be specified to fit the measurements of the foot. The dimensions would
> be inches or centimeters, not whatever measurement the manufacturer
> decided to use today. Now you know your 25.5cm by 7.76cm (length by max
> width across the ball of the foot) foot will likely match a 26cmx8cm
> shoe.

Some of the shoe makers are discussing using 3D printing to do exactly
that.


--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[G. Ross]

I abandoned Sears when the terminal fell off my nearly new battery. I
took it back and the manager refused to replace it. He said, "read
the warranty--it says only ability to hold a charge. You are not
claiming that." To his credit, the mechanic told me to give him a few
minutes. He went in and came back with a new battery and replaced it.

--
GW Ross

[Markem]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:52:47 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

You can order something on Amazon and never get it, high thread count
Egyptian cotton sheets never ever showed. Now Amazon is going after
the counterfeiters, after how many years of letting them ply their
trade goods.

Soon if Amazon has its way there will be floating wharehouse dropping
their drones out to deliver. (That plan is pie in da sky)

[Markem]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:55:28 -0500, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Amazon sent me a Visa card, never activated it they then charge the
$99 prime membership to the card.

Other than the Amazon cloud services the company has not been
profitable, how long till that catches up.

[Markem]

On 06 Jan 2017 23:54:16 GMT, Puckdropper

<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
>news:XnsA6F5A53BD13...@46.165.242.91:
>
>>
>> Probably worth noting (since we're all dudes here) that this
>> is something women have suffered with for years. No two makers
>> of ladieswear use quite the same set of sizes - my girlfriend
>> can be a 4, 6, or 8, a XS, S, or M, and never knows until she
>> starts trying stuff on.
>>
>> John
>>
>
>It's the same way with shoes. People keep insisting shoe sizes are the
>same, but that just doesn't match my reality. I just sent back a size 9
>boot to trade for an 8.5, but I have a 9.5 shoe that fits perfectly. The
>boots I'm wearing now are 10's.
>
>If I had my way about it, the foot would be measured and the shoe would
>be specified to fit the measurements of the foot. The dimensions would
>be inches or centimeters, not whatever measurement the manufacturer
>decided to use today. Now you know your 25.5cm by 7.76cm (length by max
>width across the ball of the foot) foot will likely match a 26cmx8cm
>shoe.
>

There is an Irish shoe maker who will take a mold of your foot, make a
last and make your shoes. Cost though...

[Markem]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 19:11:06 -0500, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

My remembrance of Sears from childhood was walk into the Golf Mill
anchor and getting warm roasted cashews.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 6:13:15 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> But K-Mart bought Sears. Double albatross. K-Mart was always a
> discounter but maybe 10 or so years ago they seemed to carry cheaper,
> lower quality merchandise.

I'm not positive exactly how the K-Mart Sears combination occurred. Eddie Lampert the investor hedge fund manager bought one or the other. Then decided to buy the other. Mainly for the real estate assets. Not the retail sales. So you cannot say Sears or K-Mart bought the other. A third party, Lampert, bought both separately. And they ended up linked. Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway bought GEICO insurance and BNSF railroad. You can't really say GEICO and BNSF bought each other.

Its been 10-15 years since I've been in Sears or K-Mart stores. I still like my Craftsman wrenches and other tools. Good quality to me.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:34:51 -0600, Markem <mark...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

A guy I went to school with did exactly that - he was a custom she
maker who catered mostly to those with "difficult feet". Too bad he
has turned into a total drunk. He was always a bit of a pompous ass
when he was sober - and he's gotten a lot worse

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/6/2017 6:55 PM, woodchucker wrote:

> I don't think so. I have a peeve with Amazon. Originally free shipping
> over $25.. then they moved it to $35, and quickly thereafter to $49... I
> understand the $35, but the $49 was not necessary. It was to make you
> buy into PRIME.. and that's where my disdain lies. I understood when
> they said in order for them to remain profitable they had to move to
> $35.. That I got..
>

I'm surprised Bezos let you see the books to determine that. How much
profit do they make on a $35 order so they can give you free shipping?

I placed 56 order in 2016 so Prime works for me. Listen to Prime music
too.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/6/2017 7:33 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> From past experience, B&D could be the death knell for Craftsman. The
> only thing B&D does well is marketing.
>

According to the news they paid $900million for it

[woodchucker]

That was their own PR piece on their website explaining the $35 minimum.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:01:39 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>Not every store has a good location or a smart manager. One store does
>not reflect the sum of the stores. Remember Woolco? The Woolco store
>in Corpus Christi, TX would still be open today if it could have
>continued to operate. I worked there when I was going to school. It
>was not unusual at all for an ambulance to show up every weekend to haul
>some one away. The store was so crowded that people passed out, no
>kidding. Woolco was one of the first big stores to close.

Store anagers have very limited power, these days. Their weekly (even
hourly) payrol is often fixed by corporate. Inventory and shelf space
is also often dictated by corporate, even though the store manager may
understand his customers better.

>
>
>
>>
>> Also, about 2 years ago I needed some shelf brackets. Sears had them
>> for .79 cents apiece. I asked if they were mis-priced, as they should
>> be about a nickel each. Found them on line, 25 for $1.49.
>

>You can always find a better deal but there is a price to pay for
>getting the product right now vs. tomorrow or later.
>
>I was reading that ACE hardware and Aldi were a couple of brand stores
>that are doing well and growing. I went to ACE hardware a month ago to
>buy 8 magnetic cabinet door catches. 8 would have cost me $26. I drove
>4 miles north and got the 8 catches at HD for $3.

There is one ACE store locally. It's OK but their inventory is often
lacking. They seem to want to sell Green Eggs and accessories, Yeti
coolers, and such, rather than hardware. They do have some _way_
overpriced tools. BTW, the local HD and Lowes hardware sections
aren't any better.

>>
>> When you have fools running a business, competition will kill you
>> eventually.
>>
>

>True but there are many more factors the will sink you.

[k...@notreal.com]

Sure. Sometimes paying the $13 is less painful than spending a day
finding the cheapest price.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:55:28 -0500, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

I just keep adding stuff to my cart until it gets to the $49
threshold. It's really not that much money.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 23:37:00 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
><puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>>hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote in
>>news:9igt6cd7lqkak1g6o...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Closing a bunch on stores too, it will not belong till it goes under.
>>>>
>>>>http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/sears-kmart-closings/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I heard that they were considering groceries ...
>>> " stick a fork in that one - I think it's done .. "
>>> John T.
>>>
>>
>>Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>>was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>>especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>
>>Puckdropper
> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
>North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
>you get right down to brass tacks.

Not buying that story. Sears has been dying for at least 30 years.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 00:16:21 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>On 1/5/2017 11:37 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>

>>> Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>>> was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>>> especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
>> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
>> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
>> you get right down to brass tacks.
>>
>
>

>How are we poorer for it? I never thought Sears had anything better
>than other stores in terms of price, value, service. Never bough
>Kenmore appliances but I do like my 50 year old Craftsman hand tools.

If you could buy 50 year old Craftsman tools, it would be great.

[k...@notreal.com]

On 06 Jan 2017 05:34:59 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
>4ax.com:

>
>> On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper

>> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their competition
>>>was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with other stores,
>>>especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>>
>>>Puckdropper
>> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game???
>> Sears didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The
>> North American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when
>> you get right down to brass tacks.
>>
>

>Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public to
>do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.
>
>Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing the
>compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing that game.
>If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your value is lower
>and people will go where the value is higher. How does Sears make up the
>missing value? Well, it used to be momentum and reputation... but that's
>good for only a decade or two. "Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of
>Craftsman tools, but they've been shying away from that as well.

+1

>Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
>someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment. Thing
>is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are all over
>the place.

Make that +2

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:13:06 -0500, Keith Nuttle
<Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/6/2017 12:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>> On 1/5/17 11:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote in news:ij7u6ctqak1ll96a1qjl9p96drgn4pj8jq@
>>> 4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On 06 Jan 2017 04:03:05 GMT, Puckdropper
>>>> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sears struck me as a company that didn't realize who their
>>>>> competition was. Prices/quality just aren't competitive with
>>>>> other stores, especially on common hand tools like levels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Puckdropper
>>>> You mean they didn't play the "compete on price only" game??? Sears
>>>> didn't kill sears. Nor did Walmart. Nor did the Internet. The North
>>>> American Public killed Sears. And are the poorer for it, when you
>>>> get right down to brass tacks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sears killed Sears. They might have gotten the North American Public
>>> to do the actual work, but they got themselves into this mess.
>>>
>>> Here's the thing: If you set yourself up just like the others playing
>>> the compete on price game, people will respond like you're playing
>>> that game. If your prices are higher for the same quality item, your
>>> value is lower and people will go where the value is higher. How
>>> does Sears make up the missing value? Well, it used to be momentum
>>> and reputation... but that's good for only a decade or two.
>>> "Guaranteed Forever" sold a ton of Craftsman tools, but they've been
>>> shying away from that as well.
>>>

>>> Are we poorer for it? Perhaps for a while, but if there's a demand
>>> someone will fill the "Walmart/Lowe's" crossover store segment.
>>> Thing is, I just don't see it with the way that Walmart & Lowe's are
>>> all over the place.
>>>

>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>>
>> Like Radio Shack, they tried to stick with an outdated model and refused
>> to move from it until the market had passed them in the dust.
>>
>> Sears was stuck in an "everything in one place" model that worked great
>> when people shopped once a week or less and had to plan a trip to do it.
>>
>> When everybody became mobile and specialty stores started to dominate
>> the market, Sears stayed with their old, outdated model and were trapped
>> in denial. People no longer wanted to go to one store for everything.
>> They wanted to go to a clothing store (or several) for clothes, they
>> wanted to go to the huge electronics store for that stuff, they wanted
>> to go to the huge hardware store for tools, etc, etc.
>>
>> What we complain about now, because we can do it all at home on Amazon,
>> was empowering and adventurous at the time. More choices, better
>> prices, price matching, all that stuff gave the consumer a sense of
>> having the upper hand. It was a game to win and you felt like you
>> accomplished something by driving around and finding the best deal.
>> Commissioned salespeople didn't help their cause either.
>>
>> Sears never "got it" and never would. Even when Sears tried to play the
>> "price match" game, it was underhanded and deceitful. If they carried a
>> certain brand of widget, they'd force the manufacturer to change the
>> model number just enough (like adding a single digit suffix) so that
>> they could refuse to price match because "it wasn't the same model."
>>
>> I would agree that the North American Public if it weren't for the fact
>> that all these other retailers were in the game, playing by the same
>> rules and they succeeded. No, Sears is just another wagon maker trying
>> to convince people they don't need a car.
>>
>>
>Sears is not alone in failing to understand the current marketing needs.
> I was in a well known store that has announced the closing of a lot of
>stores. It is a huge mall store on multiple levels.
>
>We tried to buy something and after wandering the hole floor actually
>found one person at a cash register who could make the sale. They don't
>understand that if there is no one to make the sale the sale will not
>happen.
>
>On the other side of this I don't think that the electronic store will
>ever take over the world. It is just like the death of the Desktop.
>While the PC does not have the market share they once have there still
>is a demand for them.
>
>The reason that that e shopping will never replace the store, is the
>reason that we were out shopping this morning. I bought a garment of
>clothing that was of a marked size. I have worn this size for decades.
>That garment did not fit. We had to go to the store and try on several
>different sizes to find the garment in a size that fits. You can not go
>down to the store and buy a pair of pants, with out trying them on.

The same could be said for shoes, though a *lot* of people buy shoes
online. In fact, if it weren't for online shoe stores (Amazon,
mostly), I'd be barefoot. I haven't found a local store that sells my
size for over thirty years. Wearing shoes that were too small was
getting really old. e-tailers fixed the problem.

>
>When it comes to hardware, many times the specification for the item are
>incomplete or miss leading. They only way you can get what you want is
>to see it "in the flesh" look at the item turn it around to find if the
>item has what you want.
>
>On this line I have seen some neat things on line. But when you actually
>get it, the dimensions have been miss represented and it is just two
>large/small for the purpose intended.
>
>

[k...@notreal.com]

On 06 Jan 2017 23:54:16 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
>news:XnsA6F5A53BD13...@46.165.242.91:
>
>>
>> Probably worth noting (since we're all dudes here) that this
>> is something women have suffered with for years. No two makers
>> of ladieswear use quite the same set of sizes - my girlfriend
>> can be a 4, 6, or 8, a XS, S, or M, and never knows until she
>> starts trying stuff on.
>>
>> John
>>
>
>It's the same way with shoes. People keep insisting shoe sizes are the
>same, but that just doesn't match my reality. I just sent back a size 9
>boot to trade for an 8.5, but I have a 9.5 shoe that fits perfectly. The
>boots I'm wearing now are 10's.
>
>If I had my way about it, the foot would be measured and the shoe would
>be specified to fit the measurements of the foot. The dimensions would
>be inches or centimeters, not whatever measurement the manufacturer
>decided to use today. Now you know your 25.5cm by 7.76cm (length by max
>width across the ball of the foot) foot will likely match a 26cmx8cm
>shoe.

That really doesn't work either. Width matters and even that doesn't
tell everything. I wear 6E shoes, not because my foot is
exceptionally wide, rather because my instep is very high. There are
very few shoe brands that leave enough material to get around my foot.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 18:50:15 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>On 1/6/2017 2:49 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 10:15:58 AM UTC-6, John McCoy wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in
>>> news:1bzbA.318745$vF2.1...@fx43.iad:

>>>
>>>> They missed the boat a long time ago. Sers had a thriving catalog
>>>> business. They should have turned that into something like Amazon
>>>> before Amazon started up.
>>>

>>> Hah, I just posted a long post saying the same thing before
>>> reading this one. You're quite correct in that thought.
>>>
>>> John

>>
>> Not to disparage you guys, but you are basically saying Sears should have been able to predict the future. Everything would be better if we could all do that. Sears did not predict the future so they did not use their catalog business to become the major retail seller of the future. If that is the logic you are using then we are all idiots because we did not invent Apple before Jobs and Wozniak did in 1976. Why didn't you know computers and mobile phones and online was the future? Are you stupid? Who sitting here today knew that buying stuff from home using a computer was the future? Shopping in stores was out?
>>
>

>When the future was already happening around them they still did
>nothing. Yes, that is stupid. Even WalMart was late to the e-commerce
>game and recently invested in (bought?) jet.com so they can catch up.
>Check out the JC Penney web site to see a useless disaster. Sears is
>just a link for items sold by others.

JCPenney has been a zombie for a decade or more. They were losing
money because people figured out that you don't buy anything there at
full price - wait for the sale. A new CEO decided to change that, so
get rid of all the sales. ...and the customers, too.
>
>When the world shifted to using computers, Sears, Macy, Penny started to
>investigate upgrading to electric typewriters.
>
>Unlike Wozniak I did not have the ability to invent a PC, but I did
>start using one in the 1980's. Some simple automated reports we use at
>work today are descendants of the DOS things I did back then.
>
>You don't have to invent technology to embrace and use it.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 23:33:07 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 21:21:28 -0500, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 20:58:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/5/2017 8:25 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is over.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I did say "I don't think malls are the gathering place they used to be." To me that means exactly the same thing as "the era of the mall is over." The value, or maybe old value, of Sears is its real estate value. I am aware malls are not really the shopping centers they used to be. But all that real estate in every state in retail locations has value. Despite the prevalence of online shopping, the way I do a lot of shopping too, actual real estate space is still needed and valuable. There is still far more in person retail space shopping than all online shopping combined. Believe it or not. Add up all the grocery store, gas station, hardware store, Wal-Mart shopping I do in a year, and it is a lot more than all online shopping I do. Suspect that is identical for everyone else. Everyone talks about online shopping, but it will never ever replace in person shopping.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is usually
>>>leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease that what
>>>the space is worth.
>>>
>>>I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
>>>empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
>>>three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
>>>other two are 75% empty.
>>
>>Around here, the more "modern" strip malls seem to be doing fine. The
>>ones that have been let go, well, their anchor is a Good Will. A few
>>malls were completely rebuilt three or four years ago. They're doing
>>fine, too. There aren't any indoor malls in the immediate area. I
>>think the closest is about 25mi (the opposite direction of our normal
>>shopping).
> Up here the big malls are doing relatively well. Our local
>"regional" mall has anchore space empty due to the collape od Target's
>Canadian opperations. The big one across town is pretty well full -
>but the Sears store is flounderinf with Walmart at the other end of
>the mall. The Bay is doing well in both malls. These are indoor "all
>weather" malls and will be linked by the new "rapid transit" rail
>system "ION" which is under construction and delayed by Bombardier's
>rail-car devision.

I think the difference between the success of strip vs. indoor
megamalls is weather. You have too much of it. ;-) The preferred
mall, here, resembles a downtown of fifty years ago. The stores line
the center, divided street (usually cobble stone) with on-street
parking. These all seem to have 100% occupancy. They tend to be
upscale stores.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 18:09:06 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:44:02 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
><igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in

>>news:2RCbA.147377$Cx7.1...@fx11.iad:

>>
>>> I don't know how much real estate Sears owns, but mall space is
>>> usually leased. They may have more liability to the end of the lease
>>> that what the space is worth.
>>

>>Today Sears directly owns virtually no real estate, since
>>they restructured most of it into an REIT (which they still
>>mostly own, so indirectly they own the real estate). I have
>>read that around 1/3 of their stores were owned, rather than
>>leased.

>>
>>> I agree that retail will never disappear, but look around at how much
>>> empty space is available. how many malls have empty spots? I know of
>>> three stip malls built about 8 or 9 years ago. One is 100% empty, the
>>> other two are 75% empty.
>>

>>Two different expressions of the same problem...for big malls,
>>they got way over built in the 80's, and that situation is
>>slowly correcting itself. Around here about half the malls
>>that existed in the 80's have been torn down or repurposed,
>>the remaining half are doing well, since supply now matches
>>demand (more or less).
>>
>>Strip malls are cyclical - there will be a shortage of strip
>>mall space, and several developers will rush in to build new
>>ones at the same time. Then there's a glut, and most of the
>>new space sits empty. Eventually demand will catch up with
>>supply, and then a new set of developers will build a new
>>surplus of strip space to sit empty for 3 or 4 years.
>>
>>John
> Around here the new ones fill up - and the old ones sit empty -----

I wonder how many of the "old ones" are filled with asbestos.

[k...@notreal.com]

On 06 Jan 2017 03:41:11 GMT, Puckdropper

<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote in

>news:e5BbA.167294$BE2....@fx22.iad:

>
>>
>> What value? Liability for rent I can see but the era of the mall is
>> over.
>>

>> Going back some years we used to go to the mall a couple of times a
>> month to shop, maybe have lunch or at least a snack. I bet it has
>> been 3 years since I set foot in a mall, but less than a week since I
>> made a purchase on line. Sales on line are up 17% last year according
>> to NBC news.
>>
>> Amazon also lets me place orders in my underwear. Macy's frowns upon
>> it.
>
>Malls are now all about the shallow side of the human: cell phones,
>clothes, etc. The stores that capture and captivate your attention are
>rare. There used to be a Radioshack in every mall (you've got questions,
>we've got cell phones!), as well as a KB Toys. Some still have
>bookstores, but even they are going to standalone stores.

The "better" malls, here, do. Mostly B&N (Walden Books went under a
long time ago).

>I bet Macy's would let you place orders without underwear on. Never seen
>"no shoes, no shirt, no underwear, no service." (I have seen "no shoes,
>no shirt, no pants, no service.") :-)

Amazon isn't so narrow minded, either. ;-)

[-MIKE-]

Not only that, but many times you do indeed get the best price.
If you happen to be within a certain distance of a warehouse you can get
same day delivery.
I had a friend who ordered a printer and had it delivered to his door
two hours later.
He went on Amazon and spent about 15 minutes finding the printer he
needed at the best price, hit a button and had it on his door step 2
hours later.
He could've spent two hours driving around town, from store to store,
wasting gas, wasting time, getting pissed off in traffic, and gotten the
same printer, maybe at the same price.
But no, he was sitting at home, in his studio, making money, no gas, no
driving, no frustration, and the printer was at his front door in two
hours.

In a way Amazon is merging new school and old school. There was a time
when groceries and drug stores, and appliance stores delivered things to
your home and it was considered normal. Amazon is bringing that back
along with everything that is new in technology and consumerism.

[Unknown]

k...@notreal.com wrote in
news:cbt07ct9fvhephqou...@4ax.com:

So we'll have to add a few numbers to the shoe designation. No matter
the system, there will always be people who have difficult feet to fit.
My intention is to be able to measure the foot using standardized units
rather than some number and a width code that means "doesn't not fit bad
enough to do something about it."

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

[Unknown]

Markem <mark...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:6bh07chu70pi0fsbs...@4ax.com:

> There is an Irish shoe maker who will take a mold of your foot, make a
> last and make your shoes. Cost though...

Yeah, designing a pair of shoes from scratch is hard. (Designing anything
from scratch is hard.) However, once you make a design and learn how to do
variations of it, it shouldn't be that hard to customize the fit. It was
$100 well spent to have Graf customize my skates so they fit my feet.

Sometimes, I don't care about the price. Just give me a thing that's top
quality and fits! (While I don't care about the price, I do care about not
throwing money away.)

[Leon]

Exactly, store manager does not mean what it used to mean. They
probably have a key, I'm not sure what else. ;~)

[Leon]

On 1/6/2017 5:47 PM, woodchucker wrote:

>> Also, about 2 years ago I needed some shelf brackets. Sears had them
>> for .79 cents apiece. I asked if they were mis-priced, as they should
>> be about a nickel each. Found them on line, 25 for $1.49.
>>

>> When you have fools running a business, competition will kill you
>> eventually.
>>

> Shelf brackets for a nickel apiece 2 years ago??? Maybe 50 years ago
>


LOL, the hooks are 15 cents each.

[Leon]

On 1/6/2017 6:13 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/6/2017 4:20 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>
>> Of course, having the albatros of K-Mart hanging around their
>> neck hasn't helped.
>>
>> John

>>
>
> But K-Mart bought Sears. Double albatross. K-Mart was always a
> discounter but maybe 10 or so years ago they seemed to carry cheaper,
> lower quality merchandise.

10 years ago? ROTFL... I remember in 1974 being disgusted with the
crap that KMart sold, I was 19.