'Big-name' players who have publicly asserted Fed as GOAT
TennisGuy
the nod to Fed as GOAT since the F.O. this year.
It was recently updated today to include Becker.
The names are in no particular order of importance.
If you have heard of others, please update this list.
1. Sampras
2. McEnroe
3. Borg
4. Becker
4. Navritalova
5. Soderling
6. Henman
7. Tracy Austin
DavidW
What do the numbers mean?
jdeluise
On 1-Jul-2009, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
> TennisGuy wrote:
> > 7. Tracy Austin
> > 5. Soderling
> > 4. Navritalova
> > 3. Borg
>
> What do the numbers mean?
I fixed it so you would understand.
On a serious note I believe Karlovic said Federer was GOAT today. I
wouldn't call him a big name player though, but Soderling is on there so...
DavidW
> On 1-Jul-2009, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>
>> TennisGuy wrote:
>
>>> 7. Tracy Austin
>>> 5. Soderling
>>> 4. Navritalova
>>> 3. Borg
>>
>> What do the numbers mean?
>
> I fixed it so you would understand.
Oh, that's better.
Patrick Kehoe
++ Can we let Fed retire before kicking this football around any
longer??????????
P
dbrowne
2008 US Open final.
Stapler
regarding whether or not Roger is the GOAT. Tennis legends don't have valid
opinions here. I mean really who are you going to listen to regarding all
matters tennis, Andre freakin Agassi or Whisper?
Superdave
Whisper can always cite his "aussie experts" in support of his
nonsense though.
DavidW
You dispute the wisdom of Aussie experts?
Superdave
No more than I can dispute the contents of a black hole.
quick_ice818
Yup, the pro or ex-pro always have an agenda when stating their
opinions on GOAT, like for PR's sake, or being bitter over the other
contenders for GOAT...etc. It is the opinions of the arm chair critics
(the fanboys and fangirls) here who have not played in a single pro
tournamentin in their whole lives or probably have only played
recreational tennis, that really matter. LOL.
Everytime I want a good laugh, I would come here to read what these
fangirls ooops, I mean fanboys ooops, I mean tier 1 ananlysts have to
say.
Whisper
Agassi, McEnroe & Wilander have all recanted. Asking Soderling or Rafa
is invalid as they are Fed's contemporaries.
Whisper
Federer doesn't hold any of the biggest records in tennis on his own -
the goat has to have some by definition.
Sequence type records like 'x slam q/f's in a row' include losses so of
no great relevance.
Whisper
Aussies are the top tennis experts. Our best male & female champs have
records that will never be beaten - Laver's 2 calendar slams & Court's
24 singles & 66 overall slams.
Wake me when someone wins 3 calendar slams & 25 singles slams. In the
meantime keep your trap shut & be grateful for the top notch analysis.
az
> Stapler wrote:
> > Stop it. We know that only what whsiper/bob/hardcell types say matters
> > regarding whether or not Roger is the GOAT. Tennis legends don't have
> > valid opinions here. I mean really who are you going to listen to
> > regarding all matters tennis, Andre freakin Agassi or Whisper?
>
> Agassi, McEnroe & Wilander have all recanted.
No, they haven't.
Superdave
wrote:
In two days time he will have the biggest and best record of them all.
15 grand slams.
Then, it will be time for you to STFU !
Professor X
> Murray said it in his press conference after losing to Federer in the
> 2008 US Open final.
I think Murray has only ever called Federer, "One of the greatest of
all time" actually.
He recently called Sampras the greatest player ever at Wimbledon,
which is true.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/latest/2009/06/23/murray-sampras-still-best-on-grass-115875-21464554/
"I think Pete Sampras is the best grass-court player there's ever
been, though. You can't really argue with seven Wimbledon singles
titles. Of course, Roger does have time to beat that."
Whisper
Yep. Have it on video.
Jason Catlin
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually, the top experts are American and German. Know why?
Whisper
I'll give you American, but Germany doesn't have enough great players.
Jason Catlin
But they have the player with the greatest trophy cabinet of them all
so that's got to count for something.
Whisper
That would make the Swiss the best tennis experts pretty soon?
StephenJ
> Superdave wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:06:20 +1000, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>>
>>> Superdave wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:45:06 GMT, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Stop it. We know that only what whsiper/bob/hardcell types say
>>>>> matters regarding whether or not Roger is the GOAT. Tennis legends
>>>>> don't have valid opinions here. I mean really who are you going to
>>>>> listen to regarding all matters tennis, Andre freakin Agassi or
>>>>> Whisper?
>>>>
>>>> Whisper can always cite his "aussie experts" in support of his
>>>> nonsense though.
>>> You dispute the wisdom of Aussie experts?
>>>
>>
>> No more than I can dispute the contents of a black hole.
>
>
> Aussies are the top tennis experts. Our best male & female champs have
> records that will never be beaten - Laver's 2 calendar slams & Court's
> 24 singles & 66 overall slams.
i wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of grand slams won by
country? e.g., evert would count as 18 for USA, graf 22 for germany,
court 24 for australia, MN 18 for czech republic, etc.
add it all up and i wonder which country would be tops for men, women,
and overall?
--
It is easier to win over people to pacifism than socialism.
We should work first for pacifism, and only later for socialism.
- Albert Einstein
StephenJ
i'd bet the main reason pete said fed was goat even before he won the FO
was because of those streaks.
e.g., pete often said winning W/USO in same year was a "banner year",
about as good as it can get, and yet he did it only twice in his career.
he must be in complete awe of fed doing it FOUR STRAIGHT YEARS, eh?
--
"if federal judges have the final word over its meaning,
the Constitution would be a mere thing of wax in the hands
of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form
they please".
- Thomas Jefferson
StephenJ
no they haven't. links?
--
What is sacred has changed in this culture. The Prophet Mohammed and
Jesus Christ
are not sacred anymore, while Jews and the Holocaust and homosexuality have
become sacred.
- Ayman al-Zawahri
Vari L. Cinicke
> Whisper wrote:
>> az wrote:
>>> On Jul 2, 2:26 pm, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>> Stapler wrote:
>>>>> Stop it. We know that only what whsiper/bob/hardcell types say matters
>>>>> regarding whether or not Roger is the GOAT. Tennis legends don't have
>>>>> valid opinions here. I mean really who are you going to listen to
>>>>> regarding all matters tennis, Andre freakin Agassi or Whisper?
>>>> Agassi, McEnroe & Wilander have all recanted.
>>>
>>> No, they haven't.
>>
>>
>> Yep. Have it on video.
>>
>
> no they haven't. links?
>
WHisperian interpretation of reality has always been bizarre when
Sampras is involved. Since everything tennis is associated with Sampras
in his mind, he can't be trusted when it comes to judgments about
tennis. End of story! Or it should be.
--
Cheers,
vc
Sakari Lund
wrote:
Well that was the reason you gave why we should listen to Aussie
experts.
StephenJ
one aussie expert said the other day that sampras isn't in the goat
conversation.
--
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature,
the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions.
It is the opium of the people.
- Karl Marx
DavidW
> Whisper wrote:
>> Superdave wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:06:20 +1000, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Superdave wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:45:06 GMT, "Stapler" <d...@d.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stop it. We know that only what whsiper/bob/hardcell types say
>>>>>> matters regarding whether or not Roger is the GOAT. Tennis
>>>>>> legends don't have valid opinions here. I mean really who are
>>>>>> you going to listen to regarding all matters tennis, Andre
>>>>>> freakin Agassi or Whisper?
>>>>>
>>>>> Whisper can always cite his "aussie experts" in support of his
>>>>> nonsense though.
>>>> You dispute the wisdom of Aussie experts?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No more than I can dispute the contents of a black hole.
>>
>>
>> Aussies are the top tennis experts. Our best male & female champs
>> have records that will never be beaten - Laver's 2 calendar slams &
>> Court's 24 singles & 66 overall slams.
>
> i wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of grand slams won by
> country? e.g., evert would count as 18 for USA, graf 22 for germany,
> court 24 for australia, MN 18 for czech republic, etc.
>
> add it all up and i wonder which country would be tops for men, women,
> and overall?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Grand_Slam_Women%27s_Singles_champions#Total_winners_by_country
There doesn't appear to be a men's list, except confined to open era.
Joe Ramirez
>
> There doesn't appear to be a men's list, except confined to open era.
It's not right to credit all of Navratilova's slams to the United
States. Three, I think, should be credited to Czechoslovakia. Although
she already had defected, she was not yet a U.S. citizen.
Interestingly, Navratilova is now a citizen of the Czech Republic as
well as of the United States.
TennisGuy
> i wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of grand slams won by
> country? e.g., evert would count as 18 for USA, graf 22 for germany,
> court 24 for australia, MN 18 for czech republic, etc.
It would open up a bit of a can of worms because how would you
define "by country"?
DavidW
For each slam the nationality of the winner at the time.
TennisGuy
> > It would open up a bit of a can of worms because how would you
> > define "by country"?
>
> For each slam the nationality of the winner at the time.
Yes I understand that, but how would you define nationality?
In a moment you will see where I'm going with this.
DavidW
In ambiguous cases the ITF or the tournament would have to make a determination.
For example, Jarmila Groth can't get Australian citizenship because she hasn't
satisfied the residency requirement (because she's overseas playing tennis all
the time), but last year she still played the AO as an Australian. However, the
FO didn't accept her as Australian so they made her a Slovakian. I don't care
how they do it, as long as they come up with one answer for each slam title.
TennisGuy
> > Yes I understand that, but how would you define nationality?
> > In a moment you will see where I'm going with this.
>
> In ambiguous cases the ITF or the tournament would have to make a determination.
> For example, Jarmila Groth can't get Australian citizenship because she hasn't
> satisfied the residency requirement (because she's overseas playing tennis all
> the time), but last year she still played the AO as an Australian. However, the
> FO didn't accept her as Australian so they made her a Slovakian. I don't care
> how they do it, as long as they come up with one answer for each slam title.
For starters... I'm thinking more in terms of players with dual or
triple or higher citizenship.
DavidW
It should be a requirement that the player choose one.
Superdave
they won't do that cause nobody wants to be australian.
DavidW
You can't become an Aussie expert - the top tier of expertise - until you take
out citizenship.
StephenJ
thanks, but unfortunately that list seems to lump in doubles with
singles. i'd just want to know the singles.
--
.. unless her great neighbors are prosperous
and orderly, Poland is an economic impossibility
with no industry but Jew-baiting.
- JM Keynes
StephenJ
actually, none should be credited to the USA. MN's "tennis nationality"
was Czech.
Believe me, i'd like to think the USA won more slams, but no can do.
--
The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from
enacting stupid laws.
- Thurgood Marshall
StephenJ
the country the player grew up in (e.g., MN = czech, seles =
serbia/yugoslavia, etc.).
Sakari Lund
>TennisGuy wrote:
>> On Jul 2, 11:30 am, StephenJ <j...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> i wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of grand slams won by
>>> country? e.g., evert would count as 18 for USA, graf 22 for germany,
>>> court 24 for australia, MN 18 for czech republic, etc.
>>
>> It would open up a bit of a can of worms because how would you
>> define "by country"?
>
>the country the player grew up in (e.g., MN = czech, seles =
>serbia/yugoslavia, etc.).
By that definition Sharapova = ?
TennisGuy
>
> >the country the player grew up in (e.g., MN = czech, seles =
> >serbia/yugoslavia, etc.).
>
> By that definition Sharapova = ?
Exactly! This man sees the problem.
Professor X
Yes Fed is GOAT. I take back my earlier posts in this thread. For some
reason when Murray is doing well I see the world through distorted
lenses. Forgive me. Obviously fed can absolutely seal the deal on
Sunday.
Sakari Lund
That doesn't belong here...
Vari L. Cinicke
Maybe Prof is a big name player. Tarango, the BBC tennis pundit? ;-)
--
Cheers,
vc
StephenJ
russian. being brought to USA camp doesn't count.
now mary pierce - i admit she stumps me. ;)
--
Was the Order to Slay given because of the Sign of the Goat found on the
ancient Roman crypt beneath the cathedral, or because the Dark Man of
the Haute Vienne Coven spoke the Three Words?
TennisGuy
> > By that definition Sharapova = ?
>
> russian. being brought to USA camp doesn't count.
Any other exceptions to the "being brought up rule"?
> now mary pierce - i admit she stumps me. ;)
Ahhhh...... you zeroed in on my trump card! :)
StephenJ
> On Jul 3, 6:11 pm, StephenJ <j...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>> By that definition Sharapova = ?
>> russian. being brought to USA camp doesn't count.
>
> Any other exceptions to the "being brought up rule"?
other than pierce, it's not complicated. and pierce means we have 2
slams to account for. me? personally i'd call pierce American because
that's where she really grew up and learned tennis, and all her
mannerisms etc. say she's American.
beyond that, though, a serb with talent sent over to a florida tennis
camp at age 10 is still a serb. a german who moves to USA at 23 and
becomes US citizen is still a german, etc.
--
When the facts change,
one's opinion ought to change.
- John Maynard Keynes
TennisGuy
> other than pierce, it's not complicated. and pierce means we have 2
> slams to account for. me? personally i'd call pierce American because
> that's where she really grew up and learned tennis, and all her
> mannerisms etc. say she's American.
Personally, I'd call Pierce a Canadian, seeing as she was born in
Canada.
> beyond that, though, a serb with talent sent over to a florida tennis
> camp at age 10 is still a serb. a german who moves to USA at 23 and
> becomes US citizen is still a german, etc.
Agreed.
And even though Rusedski doesn't figure into this slam discussion,
he's still a Canadian, no matter how hard he tries to be British.
StephenJ
yes. :)
--
.. the profiteers are a consequence not
a cause of rising prices.
- JM Keynes
DavidW
Why do you think that? I think it's just singles. The whole page is on singles.