The real GOATS of tennis
topspin
If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
Lenglen and Borg.
I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
times.
Nothing else to add.
:-)
Quincy
> Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> Lenglen and Borg.
>
> I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> three.
Boris Becker! He revolutionized Tennis, was the first of the hard
hitters, who could actually play, too. A lot of terms were named after
him (e.g. Becker Dive, Becker Blocker, Becker Fist)
And Maureen Connolly should be named, too in this context.
Whisper
To me McEnroe was far more interesting than Borg.
topspin
Becker - great player, but just not in the same league for impact.
Neither had the impact on the wider world of the three I mention.
Jason Catlin
What about Budge? You would think by being the first guy to duplicate
Bobby Jones' feat by winning four in a year he would've had a huge
impact outside the confines of tennis.
topspin
Again, a great player, but not feted by royalty, or mobbed by girls
and smuggled into and out of arenas.
Raja
What about Lendl? He changed tennis forever. The first power
baseliner. Before that baseliners were supposed to be sissies. Without
Lendl there would be no Couier, Agassi, Graf, Seles, Federer, Serena,
Venus etc. Talk about impact...
Quincy
> On Jul 8, 6:21 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> > If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> > playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> > game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> > the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> > since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> > Lenglen and Borg.
>
> > I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> > three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
> > They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
> > been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
> > supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
> > are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
> > times.
>
> > Nothing else to add.
>
> > :-)
>
> What about Lendl?
He was not mobbed by girls.
> He changed tennis forever.
BS.
wenquan lee
you're still going strong! ;o)
all the best,
wenquan lee
Whisper
Jest? Lendl was the only player forgotten while he was still playing.
wenquan lee
growing up in hong kong, i can definitely confirm the impact and
extent of boris' influence.
borg was a bit before my time, as were tilden and lenglen, but can't
argue with boris, i feel.
mac's play in 84 wim also hit front pages in hongkong, as did his
rivalry with lendl (and lendl's fitness etc probably deserves some
kind of mention, and not just to keep raja at bay!!)
Raja
Are you fucking kidding me. I have DVDs of many of his matches and the
crowd was in full support in all his matches (especially the ones
against McEnroe, Connors etc). Go ahead and watch the 1985 USO final.
The local NY crowd is supporting Lendl there.
Raja
Samantha Frankel was a hot girl. If he didn't have a steady girlfriend
that early in his career he would have been mobbed by girls too.
>
> > He changed tennis forever.
>
> BS.
Go learn history a bit, kid. All you know is Becker. Actually you
don't even know Becker's stats very well. How many YECs did he win?
Raja
I won't give up. Never will ;-) Just like I maintain Yes is one of the
greatest rock bands ever ;-)
Whisper
> On Jul 8, 2:30 pm, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 8 July, 12:26, Quincy <ab...@email.de> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 8, 1:21 pm, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>>>> If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
>>>> playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
>>>> game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
>>>> the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
>>>> since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
>>>> Lenglen and Borg.
>>>> I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
>>>> three.
>>> Boris Becker! He revolutionized Tennis, was the first of the hard
>>> hitters, who could actually play, too. A lot of terms were named after
>>> him (e.g. Becker Dive, Becker Blocker, Becker Fist)
>>> And Maureen Connolly should be named, too in this context.
>> Becker - great player, but just not in the same league for impact.
>> Neither had the impact on the wider world of the three I mention.
>
>
>
> growing up in hong kong, i can definitely confirm the impact and
> extent of boris' influence.
>
I knew a girl from Hong Kong - Jacqueline Lam - man, what a babe......
topspin
Agreed. A great player. But for impact on tennis you have to go with
King and Kramer, they *really* changed everything.
However that was all within tennis. The three I mention were the ones
who made tennis important in ways that impacted the wide world,
including people who had no interest in tennis, or sport.
Raja
Have you ever seen King play... lol... she played pattycake granny
tennis. Yes she was a important figurehead for women's tennis and same
for Kramer (he literally popularized the pro tour more than anyone).
but Lendl is a gigantic influence on modern tennis. Without his
superior fitness, training and bazooka groundstrokes 99% of the modern
players would not be even there. His influence is as big as the
Beatles.
wenquan lee
with your talent for one-liners, i'm not sure if "jacqueline lam" is
rhyming slang for something! it certainly starts off like a dirty
limerick...
wenquan lee
funny, i'll give you that - i did burst out laughing at this one. i'm
sure raja will be onto you though...
Whisper
You must have 2 dicks. Can't be this silly playing with 1.
Whisper
She was a talented consultant I worked with on a project yrs ago - an
Asian Monica Bellucci. Just a beautiful girl all round.
Raja
Did she pee standing? I am sure you are one of those guys who like
girls like that.
wenquan lee
well monica bellucci is damn hot, so nice to see some hk girls flying
the flag :o)
you should seek work with the "waiyin" association (http://
www.waiyin.org.hk/english/about_us.html) - it's a hk charity run by hk
beuaty pageant winners trying to make hk/the world a better place etc,
hehe :o)
Whisper
huh?
Joe Ramirez
Is that why Sports Illustrated ran a cover story on Lendl called, "The
Champion that Nobody Cares About"? There's no doubt that Lendl was
very influential on the way tennis is played. But as for significance
*in the sense defined by this thread*, he had none.
Carey
I''m sure she was a *very* classy woman. How else could she end up
with you? :)
topspin
Don't be stupid. He was a big influence, but there have been lots of
big influences. For instance Evert, Connors and Borg re-introduced the
two-handed backhand. I would say that has had an even bigger impact.
You are as daft as the other fanatics around here. Lendl doesn't need
exaggerated support. His record and impact is quite good enough and
doesn't need fanatical embellishment.
And yes, I saw King play. I even saw Althea Gibson play. King moved
better than 90% of the players today (and I am probably being
conservative).
wenquan lee
i remember that. but was that just an american perspective on lendl?
how was he perceived elsewhere?
LOL
They hated him in US. He was from a commie country and he beat McEnroe
and Connors in NY. And not just that he took over the world No.1
ranking from both and kept for about non-stop 5 years (only briefly
interrupted by Wilander). They couldn't tolerated a Czech beating
American in America. He was loved in the rest of the world. And the NY
public loved him as well. It is the thickheaded narrowminded news
reporters that couldnt tolerate him.
LOL
SI is quite racist/xenophobic. How many times did they have Fed on the
cover. I guess about the same times as Lendl.
LOL
I say King vs Evert (1973 Wim SF and 1971 USO SF). Her movement was
not that impressive. Evert's movement was not great either. but she
had consistent groundstrokes. King was a decent serve volleyer who
collected most of her slams where Margaret Smith was semi retired
between (1966-68 and 71-72). King is one of the most overrated players
ever.
wenquan lee
useful info, thanks. i thought i read (other than raja) that the ny
crowd supported him at times.
drew
> Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> Lenglen and Borg.
>
> I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
What about Arthur Ashe and Andre Agassi? Didn't these guys use their
fame and money to make the world a better place?
Or am I on the wrong track here? You did say 'to transcend the game
of tennis'. That doesn't just mean that you are as popular as a teen
idol outside of the game, or does it?
Jason Catlin
I think it's kind of silly to call SI *racist*
How many times has Tiger Woods been on the cover of SI or the Williams
sisters? The year Fed should've been sportsman of the year, they gave
it to a black NBA player - Dwyane Wade.
So blatantly pro-American, yes, racist, no.
LOL
I am not saying racist to black. I am saying racist to non-Americans.
And especially East Europeans and Asians.
Joe Ramirez
That's all irrelevant. Did Lendl transcend the sport of tennis? No.
Was he comparable as a celebrity to the players named by the OP? No.
Does he have a place in this particular discussion? No.
StephenJ
> On Jul 8, 2:49 pm, Raja <zepflo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 8, 6:21 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> > > If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> > > playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> > > game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> > > the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> > > since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> > > Lenglen and Borg.
>
> > > I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> > > three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
> > > They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
> > > been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
> > > supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
> > > are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
> > > times.
>
> > > Nothing else to add.
>
> > > :-)
>
> > What about Lendl? He changed tennis forever. The first power
> > baseliner. Before that baseliners were supposed to be sissies. Without
> > Lendl there would be no Couier, Agassi, Graf, Seles, Federer, Serena,
> > Venus etc. Talk about impact...
>
He's still going wrong. Lendl was very much a "classical" player. Just
watch his matches with borg at 81 FO and Mac at 82 USO.
Becker was the one who, in Wilander's words "changed the geometry of
the court", with his power-hitting.
Becker is the fore-father of the big-hitting style, both on the serve
and from the baseline, that dominates the men's game today. The modern
male game is essentially Becker's game.
wenquan lee
always good to see boris recognised. i wasn't aware, at the time, of
the impact of the power of his groundstrokes, at least compared to
other aspects. i mean, of course they were powerful, but it was the
serves and the diving volleys, the athleticism and strength of will,
that came across even more than his shots off the ground.
i do think lendl's fitness regime was written and talked about a bit,
to be fair - but was that to offset/supplement his own mental weakness/
characteristics, as opposed to deliberately trying to streth further
from the field?
topspin
> He was loved in the rest of the world.
Now you really are being daft. In Czechoslovakia, maybe, in the rest
of the world - no. Respected for his tennis - yes. Feared for his
tennis - yes. Liked - no.
He just had a miserable persona!
topspin
Actually, yes it does. Or feted by royalty. Or any of the other
manifestations of impinging on the wider public consciousness.
Doing good deeds isn't the same, laudable and exemplary as it is. Did
Elvis or Michael Jackson use their fame and money to make the world
better (don't answer!)? Are they famous in ways that other pop stars
aren't - you betcha!
amy
>
> - Show quoted text -
raja you cannot call ANYBODY narrow-minded
stephenj
Yes, Becker was celebrated mostly for his quantumly-bigger serve, but as
Wilander explained it well in his book. Becker changed the way guys
approached baseline play too. He described how Becker could hit winners
from positions behind the baseline that according to the "textbook" you
just couldn't hit winners from.
To be fair, Becker's achievement was kind of a one-shot, something he
could do because of his size/strength. It was Nick Bolleteri who came up
with the "flat/topspin" baseline stroke that has become the standard
stroke baseline shot in men's tennis.
--
The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from
enacting stupid laws.
- Thurgood Marshall
LOL
Classical? Have you seen 1982 YEC where he blitzed McEnroe. Both
players were on fire but Lendl completely overpowered McEnroe.
>
> Becker was the one who, in Wilander's words "changed the geometry of
> the court", with his power-hitting.
>
> Becker is the fore-father of the big-hitting style, both on the serve
> and from the baseline, that dominates the men's game today. The modern
> male game is essentially Becker's game.- Hide quoted text -
Becker came later. His groundstokes had power but were never as
consistently lethal like Lendl's. He did play amazing baseline tennis
in 1988 againt Lendl in the YEC. But Lendl was having a bad year and
still lost in the 5th set tiebreak!!! that was one high quality match.
LOL
> On 8 July, 14:06, LOL <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > He was loved in the rest of the world.
>
> Now you really are being daft. In Czechoslovakia, maybe, in the rest
> of the world - no. Respected for his tennis - yes. Feared for his
> tennis - yes. Liked - no.
watch the 1985 USO.
stephenj
Everyone considers Becker to be the harbinger of the big-hitting game,
which dates from the late 80s. No one considers lendl to be. Sorry about
that.
--
the Roosevelt administration .. has used the war to justify
restrictions of Congressional power, and the assumption of
dictatorial procedures on the part of the President and his
appointees.
- Charles A. Lindbergh, 9/11/41
LOL
you pathetic moron, you are in total denial. In which world do you
live? Lendl is considered as the first powerhorse in men's tennis.
http://athletes-celebrities.tseworld.com/sports/tennis/ivan-lendl.php
"Before Ivan Lendl came along, professional tennis was a game of
finesse and not always particularly exciting to watch. But after
turning pro in 1978, the native of Czechoslovakia brought the power
game to the court and was the sport’s dominant player for much of the
1980s. With a total of 144 titles, including two Australian Opens,
three French Opens and three U.S. Opens in consecutive years, Lendl
had some great battles with Boris Becker, John McEnroe and Jimmy
Connors. He earned more than $21 million in prize money during his
career and was an obvious selection for the International Tennis Hall
of Fame. Now a U.S. citizen, Lendl lives in Goshen, Connecticut. Since
retiring from tennis in 1994, he’s focused his legendary determination
on golf, and he’s made himself a scratch player"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Lendl
"Lendl's game relied particularly on strength and heavy topspin from
the baseline and helped usher in the modern era of "power tennis". He
himself called his game as "hitting hot", a relentless all-court game
that was coming to dominate in tennis. Lendl's serve was extremely
powerful but inconsistent. His very high toss may have been to blame.
Lendl was the first of a new breed of power baseliners, and his
consistency from the baseline was machine-like. Though tall and
apparently gangly, Lendl was very fast on the court. Lendl did not win
Wimbledon because he could not sufficiently improve his consistency at
the net. Grass courts yield notoriously bad bounces, and that
destabilized his phenomenal baseline game more than other baseliners.
His groundstroke setup was very complete, and repeated bad bounces
made him uncomfortable. Wimbledon in those days required reducing
baseline play by coming to net. He devoted considerable effort to
improving his net play, but fell short of a Wimbledon title"
There is one book called Ivan Lendl's power tennis
http://openlibrary.org/b/OL20984789M/Ivan-Lendl%27s-power-tennis
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-1050071.html
"It was not a match of wits or minds. Instead, Ivan Lendl and Pete
Sampras danced across the net from each other for 3 hours 20 minutes
in a splendid choreography of power tennis. In the end, top-seeded
Lendl defeated second-seeded and defending champion Sampras, 5-7, 6-4,
6-4, 3-6, 6-3, to win the U.S. Pro Indoor title at The Spectrum. Lendl
earned $135,000, Sampras $72,600. "I thought I played well, but he
played better," said Sampras, whose first singles title as a
professional came here last year. "I accept defeat."
TT
No he didn't.
--
"Mos Eisley spaceport: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum
and villainy. We must be cautious."
TT
Yes. His backhand and conditioning did.
> Was he comparable as a celebrity to the players named by the OP? No.
Celebrity? Who cares.
I greatly admired his game and how his opponents seemed to be scared of him.
> Does he have a place in this particular discussion? No.
Yes, as you can see.
drew
> > Now you really are being daft. In Czechoslovakia, maybe, in the rest
> > of the world - no. Respected for his tennis - yes. Feared for his
> > tennis - yes. Liked - no.
>
> > He just had a miserable persona!
>
> No he didn't.
It depends upon who you poll. I always thought him to be a bit of a
miserable cunt but Europeans who revered him answered that he was too
smart for the stupid questions the press always threw at him so he
came across as blunt and superior.
He was not generally popular. I saw him live a few times and there
were no groupies or wannabees hanging around or screaming girls or any
of that bullshit. Lendl was all business.
Joe Ramirez
Lendl's backhand transcended tennis? LOL. Lendl transcended tennis
less than practically any big-time champion I can think of, man or
woman. He was a great tennis player, no more, no less.
> > Was he comparable as a celebrity to the players named by the OP? No.
>
> Celebrity? Who cares.
Ask the OP. He chose the topic for the thread. You are free to have a
discussion about Lendl as a tennis player whenever you please.
guyana
God what a shit personality! remember the Bengay commercial? just
awful, he lied to his agent about his gf's age [who was 14 at the
time he imported her], sleazebag!
pltr...@spamlessxhost.org
wrote:
>If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
>playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
>game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
>the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
>since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
>Lenglen and Borg.
>
>I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
>three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
>They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
>been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
>supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
>are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
>times.
I think I would add BJK (esp. vs. Riggs) and the combo of Evert and Connors to
that list of three.
But really, a "profound impact on the wider world"? A bit of hyperbole, there,
innit? 8;)
"[Making]tennis important in non-tennis circles", OTOH, states it nicely, and is
the basis on which I think BJK and E/C qualify.
-- Larry
TT
So I guess that makes him a miserable person at USA?
Imo that makes him cool.
TT
Why hide behind OP?
The thread title was...
p...@me.not.invalid
What a strange thing to say. Did he cause you some personal grief?
topspin
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 04:21:42 -0700 (PDT), topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com>
I ceratinly agree that 'profound' was OTT!, and that the players you
name should be added to the list, certainly BJK. I wrote it quickly
just to get a different perspective on things. 'Greatest' is tossed
around pretty freely these days and I thought I'd point out that the
number of really impactful players is rather few.
It won't make any difference... :-)
topspin
None whatsoever! But I do maintain that he had a miserable 'persona'.
Not 'personality', because we never really know the true personality
of most people in the public spotlight, we just see what they choose
to project. From what I know Lendl was actually quite funny in
private, but his tennis persona was all business. I can't recall him
ever looking other than that he was sucking on lemons, and deadly
serious. He certainly didn't crack jokes and lark about. So yes, he
did have a miserable persona. :-)
Vari L. Cinicke
Miserable would have yielded a competitive advantage and that would
never be permitted. Let us call him stone-faced. Deal? :)
--
Cheers,
vc
topspin
Done!
Raja
>
> - Show quoted text -
At least he had some personality. Snorepras didnt. And he wasnt fake
like most of the new players out here. He had a sense of humour and
bluntly put what he felt about the other douchebags on tour.
Raja
He is a funny guy and a bit of a genius. And he made a lot of money.
And had 5 kids with a hot chick. He is hardly miserable. The miserable
cunts are the ones who hang around making asses of themselves on
television even after they hang up their racket.
Raja
Pedophilia... cool.
bob
"Whisper" <beav...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a5482e4$0$2836$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> topspin wrote:
>> Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>>
>> If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
>> playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
>> game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
>> the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
>> since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
>> Lenglen and Borg.
>>
>> I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
>> three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
>> They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
>> been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
>> supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
>> are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
>> times.
>>
>> Nothing else to add.
>>
>> :-)
>
>
mcenroe to me is why tennis is where it is today. w/out him the "tennis
craze" never hits its stride, and we move from borg right into lendl -
zzzzzzzz.
mcenroe made even non tennis fans want to watch.
mcenroe also made purists want to watch - how can a guy with moderate
fitness, moderate size, seemingly no practice - just show up and whip
everybody by ridiculous scores? wow.
bob
wenquan lee
thanks for this - interesting. i haven't come across wilander's book -
is it worth a read? if so, what is the title please, so i can track it
down?
all the best,
wenquan lee
amy
>
> - Show quoted text -
really? you like that? you belong in jail
stephenj
>
> "Whisper" <beav...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4a5482e4$0$2836$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> topspin wrote:
>>> Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>>>
>>> If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
>>> playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
>>> game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
>>> the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
>>> since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
>>> Lenglen and Borg.
>>>
>>> I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
>>> three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
>>> They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
>>> been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
>>> supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
>>> are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
>>> times.
>>>
>>> Nothing else to add.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>>
>> To me McEnroe was far more interesting than Borg.
>
> mcenroe to me is why tennis is where it is today. w/out him the "tennis
> craze" never hits its stride
no, jimbo/borg/evert created the tennis craze. mac road it to its height.
--
It is easier to win over people to pacifism than socialism.
We should work first for pacifism, and only later for socialism.
- Albert Einstein
stephenj
i read it years ago so not sure if it was book or article. i search for
it for you.
--
"I admit that there are good white men,
but they bear no proportion to the bad.
The bad must be strongest, for they rule.
They enslave those not of their color.
There is no faith to be placed in their words."
- Chief Pachgantschilias
guyana
> bob wrote:
>
> > "Whisper" <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
yes, Jumbo should get a lot of credit.
Raja
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes one of the 10 GOATs of all time. In fact he is 10th ;-)
Joe Ramirez
> >news:4a5482e4$0$2836$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> >> topspin wrote:
> >>> Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> >>> If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> >>> playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> >>> game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> >>> the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> >>> since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> >>> Lenglen and Borg.
>
> >>> I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> >>> three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
> >>> They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
> >>> been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
> >>> supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
> >>> are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
> >>> times.
>
> >>> Nothing else to add.
>
> >>> :-)
>
> >> To me McEnroe was far more interesting than Borg.
>
> > mcenroe to me is why tennis is where it is today. w/out him the "tennis
> > craze" never hits its stride
>
> no, jimbo/borg/evert created the tennis craze. mac road it to its height.
Yes, Whisper and bob always get this wrong, probably because they
started watching tennis in earnest with McEnroe himself. The tennis
boom was fundamentally a 1970s phenomenon that probably peaked with
the early 1980s Borg-Mac rivalry, then slowly declined for the rest of
that decade (and then cratered in the 1990s). The King-Riggs match
took place in 1973. As a kid, I was able to watch Ken Rosewall play
World Team Tennis in Pittsburgh (!) in 1974. Those events simply would
not have occurred without the carnival of excitement already
surrounding tennis at that time.
Quincy
> On Jul 8, 6:53 am, wenquan lee <wenquanten...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 8, 2:49 pm, Raja <zepflo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > > Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> > > > If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> > > > playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> > > > game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> > > > the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> > > > since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> > > > Lenglen and Borg.
>
> > > > I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> > > > three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
> > > > They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
> > > > been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
> > > > supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
> > > > are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
> > > > times.
>
> > > > Nothing else to add.
>
> > > > :-)
>
> > > baseliner. Before that baseliners were supposed to be sissies. Without
> > > Lendl there would be no Couier, Agassi, Graf, Seles, Federer, Serena,
> > > Venus etc. Talk about impact...
>
> > you're still going strong! ;o)
>
> He's still going wrong. Lendl was very much a "classical" player. Just
> watch his matches with borg at 81 FO and Mac at 82 USO.
>
> Becker was the one who, in Wilander's words "changed the geometry of
> the court", with his power-hitting.
>
> Becker is the fore-father of the big-hitting style, both on the serve
> and from the baseline, that dominates the men's game today. The modern
> male game is essentially Becker's game.
FACK.
Very well said, Jaros!!
Quincy
> you pathetic moron, you are in total denial. In which world do you
> live?
If Jaros is a moron then you are the moron's retarded brother.
Of course, he is completely right about that what he says.
Quincy
> On Jul 8, 8:06 am, LOL <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 8, 7:57 am, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > > On Jul 8, 6:21 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> > > > > If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> > > > > playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> > > > > game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> > > > > the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> > > > > since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> > > > > Lenglen and Borg.
>
> > > > > I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> > > > > three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
> > > > > They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
> > > > > been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
> > > > > supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
> > > > > are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
> > > > > times.
>
> > > > > Nothing else to add.
>
> > > > > :-)
>
> > > > What about Lendl? He changed tennis forever. The first power
> > > > baseliner. Before that baseliners were supposed to be sissies. Without
> > > > Lendl there would be no Couier, Agassi, Graf, Seles, Federer, Serena,
> > > > Venus etc. Talk about impact...
>
> > > Champion that Nobody Cares About"? There's no doubt that Lendl was
> > > very influential on the way tennis is played. But as for significance
> > > *in the sense defined by this thread*, he had none.
>
> > They hated him in US. He was from a commie country and he beat McEnroe
> > and Connors in NY. And not just that he took over the world No.1
> > ranking from both and kept for about non-stop 5 years (only briefly
> > interrupted by Wilander). They couldn't tolerated a Czech beating
> > American in America. He was loved in the rest of the world. And the NY
> > public loved him as well. It is the thickheaded narrowminded news
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
What did Raja do to you? Promoise to go out with you and you expected
a good fuck later? But instead his mother joined your party?
Quincy
> On Jul 8, 7:21 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>
> > If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
> > playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
> > game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
> > the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
> > since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
> > Lenglen and Borg.
>
> > I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
> > three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
>
> fame and money to make the world a better place?
I don't know. Perhaps this has to do with their initials?
bob
"stephenj" <ur...@cox.com> wrote in message
news:l2p5m.49916$c82....@newsfe08.iad...
> bob wrote:
>>
>> "Whisper" <beav...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4a5482e4$0$2836$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>> topspin wrote:
>>>> Sorry, I can't resist, but since it is swirling around...
>>>>
>>>> If you consider that 'Greatest' should encompass more than just
>>>> playing results, but should also include an ability to transcend the
>>>> game of tennis, to make it important outside the narrow confines of
>>>> the game itself, to make a profound impact on the wider world, then
>>>> since ~1900 there are only 3 players who have managed that - Tilden,
>>>> Lenglen and Borg.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think there is anyone else who had the same impact as those
>>>> three. If I have missed anyone, I'm sure someone will let me know.
>>>> They made tennis important in non-tennis circles in ways that haven't
>>>> been by matched any other players. They had (and needed) their
>>>> supporting cast - the Musketeers, McEnroe & Connors, etc - but they
>>>> are the ones that made tennis sparkle in the popular mind of their
>>>> times.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing else to add.
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> To me McEnroe was far more interesting than Borg.
>>
>> mcenroe to me is why tennis is where it is today. w/out him the "tennis
>> craze" never hits its stride
>
> no, jimbo/borg/evert created the tennis craze. mac road it to its height.
well, yes. it never 'peaks' w/out mac. it was already gathering steam.
bob
bob
"Joe Ramirez" <josephm...@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:064fd123-dc05-41dd...@r33g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
no, i started in 76,77 or so - borg was winning, mcenroe was not yet on
scene, connors was big name.
> The tennis boom was fundamentally a 1970s phenomenon that probably peaked
> with
the early 1980s Borg-Mac rivalry,
agree - that's what i mean. mac really pushed it to its top.
MN/evert/borg/connors had it started well.
> then slowly declined for the rest of
that decade (and then cratered in the 1990s). The King-Riggs match
took place in 1973. As a kid, I was able to watch Ken Rosewall play
World Team Tennis in Pittsburgh (!) in 1974. Those events simply would
not have occurred without the carnival of excitement already
surrounding tennis at that time.
bob
amy
>
> - Show quoted text -
you fucked 10 goats at a time in India? you hold the record then
wenquan lee
thanks. don't go out of your way, but if you come across it, that
would be great :o)
Whisper
That's true, but I just can't see the same value in Jimbo/Borg/Evert as
Mac - that's probably why it doesn't make sense to me.
Quincy
Me neither. Mac is pure genius, meanwhile the others are workers and
doublefisting boomrooters.