DIVA or ANGRY SKATING anyone?
Dario
Why is it that figure skaters constantly use souless broadway tunes in
exhibition. or some tired rock and roll stuff. frankly in my opinion
figureskaters don't know good music. they need better muisc. expecially
more contemporary. I mean haven't these people heard of R&B, new jack
swing, new jill swing or hip hop soul or better yet DIVA or ANGRY
SKATING?
This especially applies to the women. I want to see some figure skates
skate to something with some feeling and soul like mary j blige, patti la
belle, faith, envogue, swv, tony braxton, tamia, brownstone, zhane, monica,
brandy, aliyah
at times the men display atttude where is the women with attitude. I wanna
see a women in skating who is FIERCE! who'll introduce ANGRY or DIVA
SKATING. A woman with a "kick him to the curb" and a "don't even go there"
type attitude. a woman who acts like she just stepped off stage with the
harlem dance theatre or the cast of "bring in the noise".
We need skaters with RYTHM not just grace. Rory (i forget her last name)
was the only skater who was close. I saw her win the us open a few years
ago and when the music in her program switched to aretha franklin's "think"
she gave pure attitude as if throwing shade on some man who did her wrong
and was gonna kick that dog to the to the curb, or suggest he "talk to
the hand". We should see more of her. Now there is rhythm!
i wished the other skaters would move their music into the ninties and away
from andrew lloyd webber.
someskaters who could become "Soul skaters"
1) Oksana. she has rythm. she just needs the music. someone pass her a
Monica CD.
2) Kurt browning. like oksana he too can dance, not just skate. can
anyone say
R. KELLY!!!
3)Surya bonaly. R&B is where she could find her niche when she goes
professional. she is already fierce. she just needs to be introduced to
mary j blige. a mary J sample lyric: "I should have thrown [his] ass out a
thousand times" surya could introduce the world to ANGRY SKATING!!! a woman
who is so fed up with the men in her life that she isn't waiting to exhale
because she isn't even holding her breath. a woman that if her man does
her wrong she'll slap him upside his head and wipe the floor or the rink
with him. (okay so i have a wild artistic vison. hey i'm dying to be
choreographer okay).
4) Denise Belliman. everything I said about surya applies to denise as
well. She is so tough, she is the Grace Jones of skating. She could
metaphorically body slam her man in her programme. all she needs is a bit
of aretha's RESPECT to transfer her to MS Attitude.
dario
HILL JANET SWAN
Dario <gran...@followme.com> wrote:
>Why is it that figure skaters constantly use souless broadway tunes in
>exhibition. or some tired rock and roll stuff. frankly in my opinion
>figureskaters don't know good music. they need better muisc. expecially
>more contemporary. I mean haven't these people heard of R&B, new jack
>swing, new jill swing or hip hop soul or better yet DIVA or ANGRY
>SKATING?
Music that is good to listen to, or even to dance to is not always easy to
skate to. Some music that you aren't all that wild about listening to
turns out to be GREAT skating music. Hip Hop is a good example of music
(some of which) is really tough to skate to because of the tempo (IF you
want to skate WITH the music instead of having it just as background).
Some music is "too pushy" to skate to -- that is, the music itself has
such a rhythmic imperative that it seems to demand a fairly limited
repertoire of moves and steps. (Reggae is one of these). Of course,
some skaters are better able to ignore the music than others. And those
who can successfully ignore the imperatives of the music can skate to a
wider variety of music -- because their skating doesn't vary as much as
the music. I'm not sure this is a virtue.
>at times the men display atttude where is the women with attitude. I wanna
>see a women in skating who is FIERCE! who'll introduce ANGRY or DIVA
>SKATING.
Debi Thomas has retired. Denise Beilmann is still around.
>She is so tough, she is the Grace Jones of skating.
I have to say that I find the picture of Grace Jones skating to be
*wonderful*.
But I can't say that I'm wild about your preferences for music. And is
there were many such pieces in a single show, we'd have people deserting
the stands in droves.
janet
Sally Vegso
In article <5n951q$e...@lace.colorado.edu>, hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HILL
JANET SWAN) wrote:
> Dario <gran...@followme.com> wrote:
> >Why is it that figure skaters constantly use souless broadway tunes in
> >exhibition. or some tired rock and roll stuff. frankly in my opinion
> >figureskaters don't know good music. they need better muisc. expecially
> >more contemporary. I mean haven't these people heard of R&B, new jack
> >swing, new jill swing or hip hop soul or better yet DIVA or ANGRY
> >SKATING?
>
big snip
>
> But I can't say that I'm wild about your preferences for music. And is
> there were many such pieces in a single show, we'd have people deserting
> the stands in droves.
>
> janet
And another reason is that in amateur and pro competition the judges are
mostly older people that would not appreciate some of today's new "music",
and mark the skater lower than if they were skating to a more 'acceptable'
piece of music. I know that sounds wildly politically incorrect, but it's
the truth! And neither would a majority of the audience stand for such
numbers, as Janet pointed out. Alot of people roll their eyes at some of
Denise Beillman's musical choices, and they aren't even that outrageous.
Yuka Sato oftens skates to Janet Jackson, and many skaters use the current
pop songs, but about as far as it goes at this point. It would be nice to
see some rogue skaters out there, but not many skaters are going to
jeopordize their career for it.
JMHO
Sally
Trudi Marrapodi
> Dario <gran...@followme.com> wrote:
> >Why is it that figure skaters constantly use souless broadway tunes in
> >exhibition. or some tired rock and roll stuff. frankly in my opinion
> >figureskaters don't know good music. they need better muisc. expecially
> >more contemporary. I mean haven't these people heard of R&B,
I've seen skaters skate to R&B.
> >new jack
> >swing, new jill swing
I'm going to sound really old here, but what ARE "new jack swing" and "new
jill swing"?
> >or hip hop soul or better yet DIVA or ANGRY
> >SKATING?
I think I've actually seen some of that. I would say that pieces like Debi
Thomas's "One More Try" and Oksana Baiul's "You'll See" qualify. Even
Nicole Bobek's "Evita" number, in some ways. Even Jill Trenary's "These
Boots."
> Music that is good to listen to, or even to dance to is not always easy to
> skate to. Some music that you aren't all that wild about listening to
> turns out to be GREAT skating music. Hip Hop is a good example of music
> (some of which) is really tough to skate to because of the tempo (IF you
> want to skate WITH the music instead of having it just as background).
True.
> Some music is "too pushy" to skate to -- that is, the music itself has
> such a rhythmic imperative that it seems to demand a fairly limited
> repertoire of moves and steps. (Reggae is one of these).
Yeah. I think Yuka Sato had a hard time putting across that reggae version
of "Can't Help Falling in Love,"
> Of course,
> some skaters are better able to ignore the music than others. And those
> who can successfully ignore the imperatives of the music can skate to a
> wider variety of music -- because their skating doesn't vary as much as
> the music. I'm not sure this is a virtue.
Me either.
> >at times the men display atttude where is the women with attitude. I wanna
> >see a women in skating who is FIERCE! who'll introduce ANGRY or DIVA
> >SKATING.
>
> Debi Thomas has retired. Denise Beilmann is still around.
They are there. I think you could say Nicole is one.
> >She is so tough, she is the Grace Jones of skating.
>
> I have to say that I find the picture of Grace Jones skating to be
> *wonderful*.
It would be pretty funny, huh? I picture her with a gold record strapped
to the side of her bald head, like in the disco days.
> But I can't say that I'm wild about your preferences for music. And is
> there were many such pieces in a single show, we'd have people deserting
> the stands in droves.
True. Skaters need to skate not just to popular music of the time that
they like, but music the audience will like, for shows. And the truth is,
like it or not, not many audiences are into thrash, industrial, or other
radical forms of music--they tend to lean toward more mainstream pop,
rock, jazz, country and classical (because, or so I theorize, skating fans
tend to be people with a greater taste for classical music, or if not,
they develop one from being fans).
Trudi
www...@getridodispart.frontiernet.net
Previous spamproofing unsuccessful--take two! To mail me, get rid 'o "getridodispart."...
"Some men think strong opinions are a sign of PMS..."--TV commercial
"...and if you don't believe it, you can ring my doorbell and smell my toilet." --another TV commercial
Dario
> And another reason is that in amateur and pro competition the judges are
> mostly older people that would not appreciate some of today's new
"music",
> and mark the skater lower than if they were skating to a more
'acceptable'
> piece of music. I know that sounds wildly politically incorrect, but
it's
> the truth! And neither would a majority of the audience stand for such
> numbers, as Janet pointed out. Alot of people roll their eyes at some of
> Denise Beillman's musical choices, and they aren't even that outrageous.
> Yuka Sato oftens skates to Janet Jackson, and many skaters use the
current
> pop songs, but about as far as it goes at this point. It would be nice
to
> see some rogue skaters out there, but not many skaters are going to
> jeopordize their career for it.
okay. you guys make it seem as if i want a whole show to revolve around
contempraary R&B. i just think skaters need to show some different styles.
Afterall the some of the audience may desert but you would find others who
appreciate the music coming in to see in droves. a lot of the people i
know who don't like figure skating simply don't like it because of the
"white bread " music.
i only suggested four skaters, not all of them. a few programs here and
there, whats wrong with Kurt skating to BOYZ II MEN?
dario
Notdeby
In article <01bc7232$22ac9c00$58ee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
<gran...@followme.com> writes:
>Why is it that figure skaters constantly use souless broadway tunes in
>exhibition. or some tired rock and roll stuff. frankly in my opinion
>figureskaters don't know good music. they need better muisc. expecially
>more contemporary. I mean haven't these people heard of R&B, new jack
>swing, new jill swing or hip hop soul or better yet DIVA or ANGRY
>SKATING?
Ah. I see. I'm getting out my pencil, so's I can make notes. R&B good.
"Souless" broadway tunes bad. "Tired" rock and roll bad. Hip Hop good.
Hey...here's an idea you may consider...the skaters 'have' heard the music
you like, but THEY DON'T LIKE IT. I know...it's tough to ponder...innit
it?
>This especially applies to the women. I want to see some figure skates
>skate to something with some feeling and soul like mary j blige, patti la
>belle, faith, envogue, swv, tony braxton, tamia, brownstone, zhane,
monica,
>brandy, aliyah
Ewwwww...I don't.
P.S. Kristi Yamaguchi 'did' do an absolutely adorable "attitude" number to
En Vogue..."Never Gonna Get It," wasn't it?
>at times the men display atttude where is the women with attitude. I
wanna
>see a women in skating who is FIERCE! who'll introduce ANGRY or DIVA
>SKATING. A woman with a "kick him to the curb" and a "don't even go
there"
>type attitude.
Yawn. You can see this sort of stuff all over the tube, every day. In
magazines, for that matter. Sure gets old fast.
> a woman who acts like she just stepped off stage with the
>harlem dance theatre or the cast of "bring in the noise".
Dance Theatre of Harlem, you mean? They're a ballet troupe. However could
you equate what they do at Dance Theatre with the tap dancers of "Bring In
Da Noise...?" I don't think there's even a woman tapper 'in' that cast, is
there? I think the woman in the cast is the singer.
>We need skaters with RYTHM not just grace.
If they're musical, they will have rhythm, but 'not' necessarily grace,
actually. Not all skaters are graceful, either. And not all of them are
particularly musical.
> Rory (i forget her last name)
Rory Flack-Burghardt (not sure of the spelling).
>was the only skater who was close. I saw her win the us open a few
years
>ago and when the music in her program switched to aretha franklin's
"think"
>she gave pure attitude as if throwing shade on some man who did her wrong
>and was gonna kick that dog to the to the curb, or suggest he "talk to
>the hand". We should see more of her. Now there is rhythm!
Do you mean to say "attitude," in the sense of "kicking dogs," equals
rhythm? Interesting.
>i wished the other skaters would move their music into the ninties and
away
>from andrew lloyd webber.
Uh. Except he's 'been' composing in the nineties. Oh! I get it. If 'you'
like it, it's "into the nineties." I see.
>someskaters who could become "Soul skaters"
Ooooo...let's see...Otis Redding, the Four Tops, Gladys Knight and the
Pips, the Temptations, Sam and Dave...that would be very cool...but,
that's all the '60's...
>3)Surya bonaly. R&B is where she could find her niche when she goes
>professional. she is already fierce. she just needs to be introduced to
>mary j blige. a mary J sample lyric: "I should have thrown [his] ass out
a
>thousand times" surya could introduce the world to ANGRY SKATING!!! a
woman
>who is so fed up with the men in her life that she isn't waiting to
exhale
>because she isn't even holding her breath. a woman that if her man does
>her wrong she'll slap him upside his head and wipe the floor or the
rink
>with him. (okay so i have a wild artistic vison. hey i'm dying to be
>choreographer okay).
Aha! Who done you wrong? Or have they 'all' done you wrong...and you want
skaters to skate your anger for you?
>4) Denise Belliman. everything I said about surya applies to denise as
>well. She is so tough, she is the Grace Jones of skating.
Grace Jones. Good Lord! That relic?????!!!!
Gee...my guess...they have different taste than you. C'est la Vie!
NotDeby
"What a luxury it is to be alive, and female, and in a liquid state because of such male beauty." - Various.
"(My mind is) like a high-speed computer. But it only doodles."
- Rosie O'Donnell
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <01bc7232$22ac9c00$58ee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
[snip]
> This especially applies to the women. I want to see some figure skates
> skate to something with some feeling and soul like mary j blige, patti la
> belle, faith, envogue, swv, tony braxton, tamia, brownstone, zhane, monica,
> brandy, aliyah
Well, Kristi Yamaguchi did skate to En Vogue...I think you'll see more of
this type of music coming out in exhibitions in the future.
[snip]
> We need skaters with RYTHM not just grace. Rory (i forget her last name)
> was the only skater who was close. I saw her win the us open a few years
> ago and when the music in her program switched to aretha franklin's "think"
> she gave pure attitude as if throwing shade on some man who did her wrong
> and was gonna kick that dog to the to the curb, or suggest he "talk to
> the hand". We should see more of her. Now there is rhythm!
I was going to say, she definitely has attitude. Problem is she had
another baby recently, if I recall correctly. Takes a while to bounce back
from those babies. I am sure we will see her again, though.
> i wished the other skaters would move their music into the ninties and away
> from andrew lloyd webber.
Well, you're always going to see musicals being popular, sorry about that!
Of course, Webber is writing some stuff in the '90s, even if it doesn't
sound like "'90s" to you.
> someskaters who could become "Soul skaters"
>
> 1) Oksana. she has rythm. she just needs the music. someone pass her a
> Monica CD.
She's already got it. You'll see her skate to all kinds of stuff.
> 2) Kurt browning. like oksana he too can dance, not just skate.
I'd appreciate it better your not implying that skating is something
people "just" do, or that "skating is easy, dancing is hard. Why not "he
can skate too"?
> can
> anyone say
> R. KELLY!!!
I dunno, I sorta liked G. KELLY myself.
> 3)Surya bonaly. R&B is where she could find her niche when she goes
> professional.
Part of it. She's already found other niches.
> she is already fierce. she just needs to be introduced to
> mary j blige.
Maybe she has been and just hasn't skated to her.
> a mary J sample lyric: "I should have thrown [his] ass out a
> thousand times" surya could introduce the world to ANGRY SKATING!!!
And I'm sure all those grannies in the audience would just love it.
> a woman
> who is so fed up with the men in her life that she isn't waiting to exhale
> because she isn't even holding her breath. a woman that if her man does
> her wrong she'll slap him upside his head and wipe the floor or the rink
> with him. (okay so i have a wild artistic vison. hey i'm dying to be
> choreographer okay).
Dario, have you suffered a breakup lately? I feel for you, girlfriend!
> 4) Denise Belliman. everything I said about surya applies to denise as
> well. She is so tough, she is the Grace Jones of skating. She could
> metaphorically body slam her man in her programme. all she needs is a bit
> of aretha's RESPECT to transfer her to MS Attitude.
I think she already has it, it's just very "Euro" and not the typical
American 'tude.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <01bc72ab$96fa6e60$4eee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
<gran...@followme.com> wrote:
[snip]
> okay. you guys make it seem as if i want a whole show to revolve around
> contempraary R&B. i just think skaters need to show some different styles.
> Afterall the some of the audience may desert but you would find others who
> appreciate the music coming in to see in droves. a lot of the people i
> know who don't like figure skating simply don't like it because of the
> "white bread " music.
Actually, there *is* going to be an ice show not too long from now (can't
remember when) called "Urban Ice." I think that show should have the kind
of music right up your alley. It's a one-shot thing only, no name skaters
in it I can think of, but should be an interesting experiment. I think it
is being taped for TV.
> i only suggested four skaters, not all of them. a few programs here and
> there, whats wrong with Kurt skating to BOYZ II MEN?
Well, Steven Cousins skated to them...maybe it's not what you had in mind...
Ellen B. Edgerton
Dario (gran...@followme.com) sez:
: at times the men display atttude where is the women with attitude. I wanna
: see a women in skating who is FIERCE! who'll introduce ANGRY or DIVA
: SKATING. A woman with a "kick him to the curb" and a "don't even go there"
: type attitude.
Dario, let me tell you a story about a skater named Tonya... :-)
Notdeby
>Some music is "too pushy" to skate to -- that is, the music itself has
>such a rhythmic imperative that it seems to demand a fairly limited
>repertoire of moves and steps. (Reggae is one of these). Of course,
>some skaters are better able to ignore the music than others. And those
>who can successfully ignore the imperatives of the music can skate to a
>wider variety of music -- because their skating doesn't vary as much as
>the music. I'm not sure this is a virtue.
Pssst. Don't forget...the choreographer or the skater may 'choose' to
ignore the imperative and create another. They may "work" with it and/or
around it purposely. You know, not using every accent nor choreographing
to the accents or beats in the most obvious way. It can be good, if the
choreographer is good at "hearing" music, and creating movement to it, in
this way and the skater can translate it successfully to their own
movement, or it can be bad, if either the choreographer or skater is lousy
at it.
I know what you mean, though (skaters who ignore the music at all costs
and just skate to whatever or nothing ") ), and in cases other than the
above I agree about "pushy" music, or music that "overpowers" the skating.
And I agree that just because it's good to listen to doesn't make it a
"natural for movement." And I agree that those choices wouldn't tend to
have a large appeal, especially more than one per evening of skating.
Lorrie Kim
In article <5n951q$e...@lace.colorado.edu>,
HILL JANET SWAN <hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>Dario <gran...@followme.com> wrote:
>>Why is it that figure skaters constantly use souless broadway tunes in
>>exhibition. or some tired rock and roll stuff. frankly in my opinion
>>figureskaters don't know good music. they need better muisc. expecially
>>more contemporary. I mean haven't these people heard of R&B, new jack
>>swing, new jill swing or hip hop soul or better yet DIVA or ANGRY
>>SKATING?
I think it's true that some of these people have NOT heard of
current music. Or at least, their coaches and choreographers haven't. Or
they think the judges won't like it. But I too would welcome some more
teeth from the women skaters.
Periodically we read in International Figure Skating that "Urban
Ice," a skating show featuring only skaters of color, will be produced
again. I hope this is true.
>>at times the men display atttude where is the women with attitude. I wanna
>>see a women in skating who is FIERCE! who'll introduce ANGRY or DIVA
>>SKATING.
>
>Debi Thomas has retired. Denise Beilmann is still around.
Laetitia Hubert was looking fierce in Lausanne.
Denise Biellmann is starting to turn away from fierceness.
Olga Markova has lots and lots of fierce diva in her. She won't
smile during her programs, either.
If you look ONLY at Josee Chouinard's flying sitspins, you can see
tiny glimpses of the fierce diva she could have been.
Maia Usova has angry attitude. 100% genuine.
Oksana Grischuk has even more attitude, though it's not to
everyone's liking.
Krizstina Czako delighted thousands with her attitude this year.
Oksana Baiul has done an angry program ("You'll See"). Chock full
of rage, tearing at fate.
Wouldn't want to cross Calla Urbanski. Nor Kyoko Ina (I call her
"the shark" because of her frightening, toothy smile -- don't flame me! I
truly mean it as a compliment! It gladdens my heart to see aggressive
small Asian females!). Unfortunately, I think their partners come in for
a large share of their diva angers.
Then there's Natalia Bestemianova. Can't touch that.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Dario
Eureka!!! I have finally found the ultimate Diva skater. forget Surya or
Denise : the winner is RUPAUL. Can you just see it. Now he/ she is the
paragon of FIERCE.
Can you all just see it. the mc before introducing Rupaul who is next to
skate: "How tall is he? With hair, attitude and ice skates... through the
roof!!"
Dario
Mary E Tyler
(snip)
> >3)Surya bonaly. R&B is where she could find her niche when she goes
> >professional. she is already fierce. she just needs to be introduced to
> >mary j blige. a mary J sample lyric: "I should have thrown [his] ass out
> a
> >thousand times" surya could introduce the world to ANGRY SKATING!!! a
> woman
> >who is so fed up with the men in her life that she isn't waiting to
> exhale
> >because she isn't even holding her breath. a woman that if her man does
> >her wrong she'll slap him upside his head and wipe the floor or the
> rink
> >with him. (okay so i have a wild artistic vison. hey i'm dying to be
> >choreographer okay).
(snip)
please do not assume that just because surya is black that she is like
american black people and has the same likes and dislikes. surya is
french and the french do not have the same culture. not that i am an
expert on french culture, but i do know that it is different from ours.
surya might prefer beethoven and show tunes to hip hop and such. just
becasue she is black, doesn't mean you can shove her into a box and
label her. i don't expect her to be like me. why do you? just because
she is black?
dejah
ps- i'd more expect tara or michelle to skate to hip hop or something as
modern, they are the age that is listening. or perahps michelle likes
country, i can just see her skating to "My Wife Thinks You're Dead" by
Junior Brown. ikes!!
Jon Seydl
Dario (gran...@followme.com) wrote:
: I mean haven't these people heard of R&B, new jack
: swing, new jill swing or hip hop soul or better yet DIVA or ANGRY
: SKATING?
In a word, no. I just don't think this music is part of the world of the
average junior skater or what they grow up to become.
: someskaters who could become "Soul skaters"
Others with the potential: Tiffany Chin, already has it to judge from the
reports from Gershwin on Ice. Lindsay Page and Alizah Allen might be
able to tap the attitude too. Michelle Kwan will get there soon enough:
In fact, I am now seeing the Tara Lipinski situation in new light, since
TL can only bring out the Angry Skating in anyone. I'm also firmly
convinced that once Erin Sutton comes to terms with the choreographic horrors
perpetrated upon her by her coaches and gets through the worst part of
adolescence, she could turn into a real skater with attitude: The spark
is there I think.
I'm envisioning a kind of diva boot camp with motivational
speeches/aerobic sessions by Bielmann; bitch sessions from Bonaly;
videotapes of Patty LaBellel; flow charts showing where Jill Trenary went
wrong; posters of Roz Sumners as the Ur-Example of the Anti-Angry
Skater; Sarah Kawahara as skating coach. Wow.
--
Jon L. Seydl jse...@sas.upenn.edu
Jon Seydl
Trudi Marrapodi (www...@getridodispart.frontiernet.net) wrote:
: <gran...@followme.com> wrote:
: > This especially applies to the women. I want to see some figure skates
: > skate to something with some feeling and soul like mary j blige, patti la
: > belle, faith, envogue, swv, tony braxton, tamia, brownstone, zhane, monica,
: > brandy, aliyah
: Well, Kristi Yamaguchi did skate to En Vogue...I think you'll see more of
: this type of music coming out in exhibitions in the future.
But I thought the overall point of Dario's critique was not only picking
music with soul but bringing real attitude and feeling along with it.
Kristi is many things, but she is not and never will be a diva. She does
not have attitude. She is not an angry skater. I mean, that En
Vogue program was fine for what is was (and I saw it at Landover), a kind of
scripted in-your-faceness lifted from the video, but I never got the
impression that you were supposed to believe for one second that Kristi was
speaking from the heart. Choosing the music only seems to get you
halfway there with Yamaguchi and I thought Dario was talking about the
blend.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <5nbtol$a...@netnews.upenn.edu>, jse...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu
(Jon Seydl) wrote:
You should have seen her later on tour. I thoroughly agree that by
Landover Kristi was still doing "attitude by numbers." She got better over
the course of the tour, put more of herself into it and less of Sandra's
choreography. Nope, she'll never be a "diva" in the Diana Ross sense of
the word, but she can make a diva with a sense of humor, which is how it
came out by the end of the tour. Not "angry." But then I don't think "My
Lovin'" is a particularly angry song. If you've seen the En Vogue video,
they're not angry, they're actually having fun. It's like "Ha ha, you're
never gonna get it. Maybe next time you'll get your act together, but by
then it'll be too late. Too bad for ya, kid. We feel your
pain--BWAHAHAHAHA!"
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <01bc7305$a7cb98e0$4bee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
<gran...@followme.com> wrote:
Of course...all we need to do is dress Paul Wylie in drag, and voila: RuPaul!
je...@ix.netcom.com
We discussed this topic a little while back in the thread about using
the soundtrack from RENT for skating. The songs are very powerful,
certainly Diva material, but the consensus was that the skaters/
choreographers/show producers etc. wouldn't feel that the lyrics would
be appropriate for the typical ice show audiance. Too bad too because
some of those numbers could be spectacular.
JEN
Dario
> jon worte:
> I'm envisioning a kind of diva boot camp with motivational
> speeches/aerobic sessions by Bielmann; bitch sessions from Bonaly;
> videotapes of Patty LaBellel; flow charts showing where Jill Trenary went
> wrong; posters of Roz Sumners as the Ur-Example of the Anti-Angry
> Skater; Sarah Kawahara as skating coach. Wow.
>
> --
>>finally someone has the right idea. but throw in oksana grichuk for
attitude 101
Dario
HILL JANET SWAN
>I think Dario is really addressing a clash of cultures. The skating
>world
>is a little bit in-bred, although it isn't nearly as bad as it used to
>be. By in-bred, I mean there is a cultured tendancy towards elitism.
But isn't an "insistence" (which is overstating the case, I admit) that
people skate to the music that you (generically) personally prefer
elitism, too? Yes, it is.
>That's not the situation. The problem is that new music brings in all
>kinds of variables, political and racial and I think skaters would
>rather not risk pushing too many boundaries at once.
I think you are giving the skaters credit for MUCH too much cerebration on
this point.
janet
hil...@colorado.edu
Jon Seydl
HILL JANET SWAN (hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
: >I think Dario is really addressing a clash of cultures. The skating
: >world
: >is a little bit in-bred, although it isn't nearly as bad as it used to
: >be. By in-bred, I mean there is a cultured tendancy towards elitism.
: But isn't an "insistence" (which is overstating the case, I admit) that
: people skate to the music that you (generically) personally prefer
: elitism, too? Yes, it is.
No, of course it's not. Elitism is about power relationships, and the
types of music addressed by Ryan and Dario are clearly not empowered
vehicles in skating today. The lack of fit between standard skating
music and standard American musical taste is significant, and reflecting
on the politics of this difference is worth thinking about.
: >That's not the situation. The problem is that new music brings in all
: >kinds of variables, political and racial and I think skaters would
: >rather not risk pushing too many boundaries at once.
: I think you are giving the skaters credit for MUCH too much cerebration on
: this point.
Just because skaters aren't articulating their reasons for choosing music in
Ryan's language doesn't mean that he hasn't hit on the motivations
(or those of their coaches--aha, a power relationship there!) underlying
one's choice of music.
PegLewis
In article <33997F...@nospam.erols.com>, Mary E Tyler
<dej...@nospam.erols.com> writes:
>ps- i'd more expect tara or michelle to skate to hip hop or something as
>modern, they are the age that is listening. or perahps michelle likes
>country, i can just see her skating to "My Wife Thinks You're Dead" by
>Junior Brown. ikes!!
Suddenly, I'm envisioning Michelle skating to Elton John's "Tickin'" - and
that would be very angry skating, indeed.
What is the antithesis of angry skating, and who exemplifies it? Anyone?
Peg
(PegL...@aol.com)
===========
"Always in motion is the future." - Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back.
===========
"Losing to Tara isn't a nuclear blast; it's life, it's sport. Michelle's
not always going to be perfect, she's not the queen of May, she's not
wearing a crown like some Venus de Milo. We're talking about Michelle Kwan
skating the best she can for herself, not for mommy or daddy or Frankie."
- Frank Carroll at Champions Series Finals pre-event press conference,
February 28, 1997
===========
"You go, girl!" - anonymous fan, shouting to Elena Bechke in mid-lift
during competition at Landover, Autumn, 1996
Mary E Tyler
okay so the reference nonsense is at the end. i have an idea! a
brainstorm. maybe most skaters are *not* angry. maybe their angst is
bets expressed by celine dion not whoever. maybe they are not fighting
the same fight. they could be happy being devoted to a goal and not feel
like the world is dumping on them. they are not a discriminated
minority. anyway, i am not going to say more, my basic knowledge about
the form of music we are discussing will show.
dejah
Ryan Budney wrote:
>
> : But isn't an "insistence" (which is overstating the case, I admit) that
> : people skate to the music that you (generically) personally prefer
> : elitism, too? Yes, it is.
>
> >No, of course it's not. Elitism is about power relationships, and the
> >types of music addressed by Ryan and Dario are clearly not empowered
> >vehicles in skating today. The lack of fit between standard skating
> >music and standard American musical taste is significant, and reflecting
> >on the politics of this difference is worth thinking about.
>
> I think I know part of the answer. I've run into this particular clash of
> musical taste once before in my life. Musically speaking, I'm a fish out of
> water not only in figure skating but also in my chosen career,
> which is mathematical research. The bulk of math people that I've met tend
> to be people who play the piano, sing in choirs, or play the violin,
> generally people with a strong appreciation for classical music, dance,
> ballet and so on. This tendancy isn't a coincedence. Mathematics as well
> as classical music both emphasize the creative, transcendental and platonic
> experiences over sniggly little things like the politics of the moment,
> social strife and sexual angst.
>
> So, I figure that figure skating is set apart from the music world
> basically because of inertia. If you're young and you spend most of your
> time training, locked inside the figure skating world with all these
> transcendental ideals that you're striving to achieve, then even if you
> do get out of the figure skating world once and a while, you won't have a
> feel for the situation. If you try to analyse Hip Hop or Punk Rock in
> some kind of ancient Greek mode of thought, you're going to be
> horribly disappointed. Where's the glorification of mankind? it isn't
> there. Instead you have provocative political music, music that makes you
> criticise music or political issues or racial issues or anything. Some
> people have a problem listening to anger in music, but anger itself can be
> intended in the most loving way possible. True biting satire is an
> expression of love and hope, not hate. Punk Rock and Hip Hop tend to be
> angry because they are fighting, there's hope and ideals there but they're
> buried in the fight.
>
> I'm not trying to say that figure skating people in general are a
> pile of resurrected ancient Greeks, but I think the Greek ideals are
> catchy and if you get far enough into them it can be scary coming back
> out to the ugly, angry, frustrated (but occasionally transcendental and
> Greek) world we live in. Pangloss couldn't manage it. (I don't know
> any *real* people, so my examples all have to be literary) :)
>
> There is some very skatable Hip Hop and Punk Rock out there
> (Fun-da-mental, Cornershop, Stereolab...). In fact, I know of some covers
> of Andrew Lloyd Webber by a Serbian punk-rock band called One World
> Orchestra. That'd be an easy transition for lots of skaters. :)
>
> -ryan budney
Michalle S Gould
PegLewis (pegl...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <33997F...@nospam.erols.com>, Mary E Tyler
: <dej...@nospam.erols.com> writes:
:
: >ps- i'd more expect tara or michelle to skate to hip hop or something as
: >modern, they are the age that is listening. or perahps michelle likes
: >country, i can just see her skating to "My Wife Thinks You're Dead" by
: >Junior Brown. ikes!!
:
: Suddenly, I'm envisioning Michelle skating to Elton John's "Tickin'" - and
: that would be very angry skating, indeed.
:
: What is the antithesis of angry skating, and who exemplifies it? Anyone?
Two words and two words only - Caryn Kadavy.
Michalle
Wandarama
I guess it would be safe to ask this quistion under this thread. . .
Why don't we see some of the skaters doing heavy metal (like Stojko's Van
Halen number back in '94)?
-------------------------------------------------------
Da General: annoying people on the internet for three
years and counting.
"Great thinkers are born from crap like this."
----------------------
Valerie
In article <5neq7k$7jt$2...@news.nyu.edu>,
Michalle S Gould <msg...@is6.nyu.edu> wrote:
>PegLewis (pegl...@aol.com) wrote:
>: What is the antithesis of angry skating, and who exemplifies it? Anyone?
>:
>
>Two words and two words only - Caryn Kadavy.
Nope. Dorothy Hammill (sp!).
Val
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19970609155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
wand...@aol.com (Wandarama) wrote:
> I guess it would be safe to ask this quistion under this thread. . .
>
> Why don't we see some of the skaters doing heavy metal (like Stojko's Van
> Halen number back in '94)?
Maybe they just haven't picked any for their exhibitions lately.
Valerie
In article <19970609155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
Wandarama <wand...@aol.com> wrote:
>I guess it would be safe to ask this quistion under this thread. . .
>
>Why don't we see some of the skaters doing heavy metal (like Stojko's Van
>Halen number back in '94)?
>
I'm sure Jumpin' Joe would be glad to oblige.... ;-)
But really, folks, don't you think this was just a trolling mission? A
very successful one, I'd say, with a great deal of amusement value. I
mean, just try to picture Dorothy Hamill skating to "Shoop" by
Salt'n'Peppa (I think) or "Bring Me Some Water" by Melissa Etheridge!
You'll see Elvis skate to "Memories" before THAT happens! ;-) And no,
that's not a slam at either of them or at Dario.
Val
dario
. .
Why don't we see some of the skaters doing heavy metal (like Stojko's Van
Halen number back in '94)?
>> Well heavy metal is out. perhaps a stone temple pilots, bush, dinosaur
jr, no doubt, marilyn manson( okay this one would be pushing it)greenday,
sonic youth,
chemical brothers, would be better choices, more contemporary.
dario
the guy who hates pushing "shift" to capitalize, on his keyboard.
Notdeby
In article <5nc814$lsk$6...@node2.frontiernet.net>,
www...@getridodispart.frontiernet.net (Trudi Marrapodi) writes:
>In article <01bc7305$a7cb98e0$4bee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
><gran...@followme.com> wrote:
>
>> Eureka!!! I have finally found the ultimate Diva skater. forget
Surya or
>> Denise : the winner is RUPAUL. Can you just see it. Now he/ she is
the
>> paragon of FIERCE.
>>
>> Can you all just see it. the mc before introducing Rupaul who is next
to
>> skate: "How tall is he? With hair, attitude and ice skates... through
the
>> roof!!"
>
>Of course...all we need to do is dress Paul Wylie in drag, and voila:
RuPaul!
Nah! Paul wouldn't make 'nearly' as beautiful a woman as RuPaul.
Anyways...I guess if RuPaul is that good on them stilettos he/she wears,
skates would be a 'breeze.' I don't think he/she would go for the look of
skates, though. It would spoil the outfit ").
Notdeby
In article <01bc72ab$96fa6e60$4eee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
<gran...@followme.com> writes:
>okay. you guys make it seem as if i want a whole show to revolve around
>contempraary R&B. i just think skaters need to show some different
styles.
> Afterall the some of the audience may desert but you would find others
who
>appreciate the music coming in to see in droves. a lot of the people i
>know who don't like figure skating simply don't like it because of the
>"white bread " music.
Okay, Dario. Now we see...you just want to see something you like to
listen to and which you would consider fresh. Dear...you 'really' must
learn to state your case 'before' you go "over the top" "). By the
way...I 'really' have doubts about those "droves." Not to say there
wouldn't be an audience who would come to see skating to some of the stuff
you mentioned, but I venture to say you would 'lose' more than you would
gain. Your taste does not exactly cut a huge swath across all boards.
In article <5nbtol$a...@netnews.upenn.edu>, jse...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Jon
Seydl) writes:
>But I thought the overall point of Dario's critique was not only picking
>music with soul but bringing real attitude and feeling along with it.
Well, 'I' got the overall point that Dario was picking music 'Dario'
thinks has soul. Further, Dario indicated that "attitude" or "feeling" was
only what Dario thinks it is. Personally, I think Dario's choices are
'all' washed up. I think it is 'really' old to cop an overly done "diva"
attitude. Especially what passes for one, these days. I think Dario's
music choices are to Rhythm and Blues, and/or Soul and or 'anything' good
coming out of contemporary music, what Andrew Lloyd Webber is to good
broadway musicals, what John Tesh is to piano concerti, what The Archies
were to Rock and Roll. Bland, unispired, and pretty much all of a cloth.
In article <3398CCC5...@math.cornell.edu>, Ryan Budney
<ry...@math.cornell.edu> writes:
>>Ah. I see. I'm getting out my pencil, so's I can make notes. R&B good.
>>"Souless" broadway tunes bad. "Tired" rock and roll bad. Hip Hop good.
>
>You're misinterpreting Dario's post.
Not at all.
> I think the main point is that if
>you check out modern "skatable" music, there seems to be only a pretty
>thin, old fashioned wedge of the music pie that is skated to. I
>certainly agree with Dario. If you're going to skate to the same old
>sound, you might as well just skate with no music at all, at least, for
>the purposes of making an impression on me.
I'd say you've latched on to a small part of the point Dario was making
and, since you agree with it, you've taken certain liberties with Dario's
point, because you have your own point of view that meshed, at some point,
with Dario (sorry, I keep repeating Dario's name, because I don't know if
Dario is he or she). Dario went to great pains to imply how 'very' un-hip
skaters all were, because their music and attitudes are so un-hip and why
don't these people get hip (hip being defined by Dario, of course).
> Dead classical composers,
>Andrew Lloyd Webber, etc, they sound cliche to gadzillions of people.
Yes...and to about a trillion gazillion more, they don't sound cliche at
all (well, really...I ain't gonna make a defense of Lloyd Webber
here...he's indefensible ") ).
>Some people have a different cultivated sense of music that does not
>include classical music, but starts with Jazz, Reggae and Punk Rock (for
>example, me). Having musical taste does not neccesarily mean you're a
>classical music buff.
And being a classical music buff doesn't mean you are immune to the charms
of other music. Nor does it mean you aren't exposed to other music. Nor
does it mean you can't listen to contemporary music of some ilk and
pronounce it crap. Just 'cause it's new don't make it good.
>I think Dario is really addressing a clash of cultures.
I think you give Dario too much credit for what was in the post. I 'also'
think this is about the "assumed" clash of cultures, as well as it may be
the 'actual' clash of cultures.
> The skating world
>is a little bit in-bred, although it isn't nearly as bad as it used to
>be. By in-bred, I mean there is a cultured tendancy towards elitism.
The elitism is cultured? Or the culture is elitist?
>With
>that there are several biases, and one is music. I don't expect figure
>skating to catch up to the real world in music, it's a backwater and
>that's just the way it is.
Of course, you are speaking here of eligible skating, right? Skaters grow
up, ya know...their taste may or may not grow up with it, just like your
average American. And, whether it's for the judges or whether it's to get
Joe Average's butt in the seat, you will have to consider the "lowest
common denominator" of music, for better or worse, whether you like it or
not. Sometimes you can only be a little dangerous at a time.
> For the most part, people who figure skate
>and people who watch it are attracted by the grace, the beauty and
>apparent simplicity of motion that a skater can attain on the ice, it's
>a cultured taste that takes time to build (like classical music or
>mathematics...),
I disagree totally. I think 'alot' of what attracts people to figure
skating is the "immediateness" of it. The sheer attraction of beautiful,
fluid movement. That appreciation may 'then' be cultivated to include a
greater appreciation of other attributes.
> in particular it is without a
>direct appeal to any radical tensions. Modern music (hip hop,
>punk rock/grunge, etc) appeals to people who are struggling with modern
>society, generally young people dealing with problems. The two are
>pretty much distinct and have nothing to do with each other, but that
shouldn't
>stop people from bringing the two together.
OH...c'mon, Ryan! Give to me the break "). Who isn't struggling with
modern society? Each in their own way? Some lives are definitely rougher
than others, but I don't believe that has to do with enjoying music. And
while it's true that "dissaffected" music can have a deeper resonance with
the "dissaffected," it doesn't mean anyone can't appreciate any music for
the same reason or on the same level as the kid on the street or the
high-brow in the mansion with the Rolls. Look...if you have the most
miserable life imaginable (we're talking street person), you may
hear...say...Pavarotti sing an aria...and that might have a 'deeper'
resonance with you, may hit a more personal spot and sense of beauty...may
be transforming. That might have more meaning to you as a person than any
Hip-Hop song could ever hope to (but, you may also not feel able to share
that with your friends, either ").
>>Hey...here's an idea you may consider...the skaters 'have' heard the
music
>>you like, but THEY DON'T LIKE IT. I know...it's tough to ponder...innit
>>it?
>
>That's not the situation.
Well, now, there's a big assumption. Don'tcha think?
> The problem is that new music brings in all
>kinds of variables, political and racial and I think skaters would rather
>not risk pushing too many boundaries at once. Some skaters *do* skate to
>new music in their own personal, private time, but they generally avoid
>performing to it in front of large audiences.
New music, meaning contemporary? Meaning...meaning what? I agree that
skaters have reasons to think carefully about what music they choose.
>>Yawn. You can see this sort of stuff all over the tube, every day. In
>>magazines, for that matter. Sure gets old fast.
>
>You can't sweep modern music under the rug, pretty soon it'll come out
>and bite you. :)
The remark wasn't in reference to modern music. It was in reference to
this:
">at times the men display atttude where is the women with attitude.
>I wanna see a women in skating who is FIERCE! who'll introduce
>ANGRY or DIVA SKATING. A woman with a "kick him to the curb"
>and a "don't even go here" type attitude."
And my meaning is that this stuff is 'already' old. This attitude.
Okay...skaters don't necessarily use it, nor have they much. But, as an
attitude...this stuff is 'all' old already: "fierce attitude," "diva,"
"kick 'em, don't go there, un-unh honey." It's old. So, if skaters have
never done it, but it's already old, why bother going there in the first
place? Move on to fresher things than that, if that's what you're looking
for skating to go after.
>>Uh. Except he's 'been' composing in the nineties. Oh! I get it. If 'you'
>>like it, it's "into the nineties." I see.
>
>It's an old sound. That's not a put-down, old sounds have their place
>but it *is* an old sound, and so it's not really in spirit with the
>innovations in music in this decade.
So, everything new is good? Everything new is innovative? Point of note:
the attitude and the types of music Dario mentioned have been around. So,
actually, none of this is very new (except in the sense of a new
record/song/CD/artist). But, know what they always told me? There's
nothing new under the sun. It's just that young kids will 'always' think
they've invented it first and they'll always assume no one else can "get
it" ").
In article <5ndcmd$3...@netnews.upenn.edu>, jse...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Jon
Seydl) writes:
>HILL JANET SWAN (hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
Ryan wrote:
>: >I think Dario is really addressing a clash of cultures. The skating
>: >world is a little bit in-bred, although it isn't nearly as bad as it
used to
>: >be. By in-bred, I mean there is a cultured tendancy towards elitism.
>
>: But isn't an "insistence" (which is overstating the case, I admit) that
>: people skate to the music that you (generically) personally prefer
>: elitism, too? Yes, it is.
>
>No, of course it's not.
Yes, it is. Reverse elitism. Or reverse snobbery.
> Elitism is about power relationships, and the
>types of music addressed by Ryan and Dario are clearly not empowered
>vehicles in skating today.
Elitism's power relationship is about who is "in" and who is "out"; who is
in control, who can lord it over whom. What makes you "in" or "out" can be
defined and re-defined. It 'can' be about money. It 'can' be about the
status quo. It 'can' be about those who go against the "cultural norm,"
just as easily; depending on the venue where the "action" is taking place.
Why 'would' those types of music addressed by Ryan and Dario need to be
empowered as vehicles for skating? Is it good music? Is it good music for
skating?
> The lack of fit between standard skating
>music and standard American musical taste is significant, and reflecting
>on the politics of this difference is worth thinking about.
Jon! You consider what Dario and Ryan mentioned to be standard musical
taste? I'm astounded. It's the taste of certain segments of America, but
it's no standard, by any means. Otherwise, I agree with your point,
though.
In article <199706080251...@babyblue.cs.yale.edu>, Ryan Budney
<ry...@math.cornell.edu> writes:
(Snipping parts I've already addressed)
>...Musically speaking, I'm a fish out of
>water not only in figure skating but also in my chosen career,
>which is mathematical research. The bulk of math people that I've met
tend
>to be people who play the piano, sing in choirs, or play the violin,
>generally people with a strong appreciation for classical music, dance,
>ballet and so on. This tendancy isn't a coincedence. Mathematics as well
>as classical music both emphasize the creative, transcendental and
platonic
>experiences over sniggly little things like the politics of the moment,
>social strife and sexual angst.
So...how do they feel about classical music that addresses the politics of
the moment, social strife, and/or sexual angst (at least at the time they
were written)? Maybe it's your exposure to different sorts of music vs.
their experience. It's often only a matter of what you are exposed to
while you grow up.
>So, I figure that figure skating is set apart from the music world
>basically because of inertia. If you're young and you spend most of your
>time training, locked inside the figure skating world with all these
>transcendental ideals that you're striving to achieve, then even if you
>do get out of the figure skating world once and a while, you won't have a
>feel for the situation. If you try to analyse Hip Hop or Punk Rock in
>some kind of ancient Greek mode of thought, you're going to be
>horribly disappointed. Where's the glorification of mankind?
Your first assumption is that a skater's thinking would tend towards
classical thought. Why would that be so? I think one doesn't analyze
music, as much as experience it (Joe Average, that is...I see those music
theorists sneeking up on me with daggers in their fists ") ).
> it isn't there.
Or maybe it's just a little warped and you have to stand on your head and
rotate to see it ")?
> Instead you have provocative political music, music that makes you
>criticise music or political issues or racial issues or anything. Some
>people have a problem listening to anger in music, but anger itself can
be
>intended in the most loving way possible. True biting satire is an
>expression of love and hope, not hate. Punk Rock and Hip Hop tend to be
>angry because they are fighting, there's hope and ideals there but
they're
>buried in the fight.
And some of it is just crap...just like in 'every' other music form. Not
all of it has a point, except to separate some sap from their money. It
doesn't 'get' to alot of people, because it's frankly hard to listen to,
hard on your ears (and, hey, depending on what you're calling Punk...I
'like' Punk). If you want or like to be bombarded by sound, it's not going
to bother you, if you want to listen to lyrics and a message (when they
exist) and have an intellectual experience of the music, it will probably
not be your first consideration and not as important as it might be,
otherwise. Most folks want to listen and be moved by the beautiful sound.
Which you can multiply by about a hundred when you're talking about things
that people want to 'move' to or, moreso, music that 'makes' them move.
That compels them to move.
If they're like me, the skaters wouldn't be interested in the music Dario
mentioned. Not because I "can't relate, so I 'just' don't get it," but
because I think it's lousy music and even lousier and limiting to move to.
I think it stinks ").
Mary E Tyler
Valerie wrote:
>
> In article <19970609155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> Wandarama <wand...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >Why don't we see some of the skaters doing heavy metal (like Stojko's Van
> >Halen number back in '94)?
> >
>
>
> But really, folks, don't you think this was just a trolling mission? A
> very successful one, I'd say, with a great deal of amusement value. I
> mean, just try to picture Dorothy Hamill skating to "Shoop" by
> Salt'n'Peppa (I think) or "Bring Me Some Water" by Melissa Etheridge!
> You'll see Elvis skate to "Memories" before THAT happens! ;-) And no,
> that's not a slam at either of them or at Dario.
>
> Val
i believe that a skatewr used melissa ethridge "i'm the only one" last
season on the pro circuit, was it katerina witt? micheal (ak not chack,
the other one) uses HM in one of his exhibitions, i forget which.
certainly joe slobobchieck (sp?) counts with his love of MeatLoaf
dejah
Dario
>okay. you guys make it seem as if i want a whole show to revolve around
>contempraary R&B. i just think skaters need to show some different
styles.
> Afterall the some of the audience may desert but you would find others
who
>appreciate the music coming in to see in droves. a lot of the people i
>know who don't like figure skating simply don't like it because of the
>"white bread " music.
Okay, Dario. Now we see...you just want to see something you like to
listen to and which you would consider fresh. Dear...you 'really' must
learn to state your case 'before' you go "over the top" "). By the
way...I 'really' have doubts about those "droves." Not to say there
wouldn't be an audience who would come to see skating to some of the stuff
you mentioned, but I venture to say you would 'lose' more than you would
gain.
Your taste does not exactly cut a huge swath across all boards.>
>> neither does broadway tunes.
and i said a few programs here and there. Well i was just tired off my
friends saying figure skating was the sport for the master race, or the
sport for old white people. maybe you'd lose the old folks but gain a
plethora of younger fans. maybe not just R&B but alternative music as well.
If I an tolerate the boradways tunes then surely most people could handle
a little mix of pop music. what about a country number? Rosalyn skating
to shaina Twain. That's 90's.
Dario
Dario
Dario
i think my thread has gotten out of hand , now some are discussing greek
philosophy. Anyway. what i was saying is that an occasonal sprinkle of
something modern would make a great change. if this was the 70' you'd all
be saying that if someone skated to a disco song people would leave in
droves. funny, the audiene seems to love Kurt brickhouse( he even scored
perfect ten with this from so called old judes who don't like this kind of
music -- at the canadian pros) and liz's i will survive. if anything. i
think the audience loves songs like these. they always seem to be claping
along. those numbers usually bring down the house. so i don't know what's
up with the audiene leaving in droves thing is about. especially with the
rock and roll skating specials popping up. if this music isn't what people
want then why does pop music stand for popular -- as in selling millions.
so what would be the difference if it's disco or dance or r&B. i guarentee
the audience wouldn't leave and would be clapping along like they always do
to upbeat songs. . and for the record in my orginal post i never
mentioned hip hop but hip hop soul. there is a big difference one has rap
the other doesn't. so for those people who think this kind of music isn't
the current standard i suggest go check yourself and then check out a
latest issue of Billboard magazine.
but since were on the topic of hip hop what about Michelle Kwan doing a
gansta bitch program to Foxy brown,lil kim or yo yo? ( just kidding ).
PegLewis
In article <01bc7563$14cb2140$4bee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
<gran...@followme.com> writes:
>. if this was the 70' you'd all
>be saying that if someone skated to a disco song people would leave in
>droves. funny, the audiene seems to love Kurt brickhouse( he even scored
>perfect ten with this from so called old judes who don't like this kind
of
>music -- at the canadian pros) and liz's i will survive. if anything. i
>think the audience loves songs like these. they always seem to be claping
>along. those numbers usually bring down the house. so i don't know what's
>up with the audiene leaving in droves thing is about. especially with the
>rock and roll skating specials popping up. if this music isn't what
people
>want then why does pop music stand for popular -- as in selling
millions.
This is because we're living in the nineties, and the songs from the
seventies are now "nostalgia." I would have detested these songs in the
seventies, and I did, but now you never hear them, and they remind me of
high school, so they make me smile and I can sing along. In the seventies
I'd've been seeking a barf bag.
These things happen. The stuff no one can agree to like that is current
today will be welcomed nostalgia in twenty years. Wait and see.
:-) Peg
PegLewis
In article <19970609225...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
not...@aol.com (Notdeby) writes:
> If you try to analyse Hip Hop or Punk Rock in
>>some kind of ancient Greek mode of thought, you're going to be
>>horribly disappointed. Where's the glorification of mankind?
>
>Your first assumption is that a skater's thinking would tend towards
>classical thought. Why would that be so? I think one doesn't analyze
>music, as much as experience it (Joe Average, that is...I see those music
>theorists sneeking up on me with daggers in their fists ") ).
>
>> it isn't there.
>
>Or maybe it's just a little warped and you have to stand on your head and
>rotate to see it ")?
>
>
Which genuine music scholar said classical music was written for the
glorification of *mankind*? Maybe for the glorification of *God* or to get
a paycheck or keep a job in music so's the composer could eat, but no one,
except maybe Mozart at his Masonic best, wrote to glorify *mankind*.
Most music that was popular, whether written in the 1700's or the 1990's,
is about amore. You had different constraints upon how graphically you
could speak/write about it, but the numbers of pieces written about the
pursuit of "Love" has easily outpaced that which glorified God or the
grand esoteric concept of Mankind.
Which is convenient for the pro skaters and the eligibles' exhibitions,
since love songs or body worship songs - all variations on the topic of
sex - are what most skaters use in their tour programs.
Peg, a music theorist who is *not* stalking NotDeby unless she begins to
make simplistic generalizations about music theorists and the purposes for
which classical music has been and continues to be written :-)
PegLewis
In article <199706100106...@babyblue.cs.yale.edu>, Ryan Budney
<ry...@math.cornell.edu> writes:
>For me, classical music is just noise. It's a genre I haven't been able
>to penetrate even though many friends have tried to enlighten me
You know, classical music used to be "popular" music. In two hundred
years, your tastes might seem as stodgy as you feel "classical" music is.
Mozart was a radical. The Magic Flute was a major scandal. And that is
just an easy example off the top of my head.
Peg
HILL JANET SWAN
>For me much of skating appreciation comes from seeing the physical
>discipline, the control, the creativity, and that's how I draw
>similarities to appreciating stuff like mathematics and classical music.
>These are platonic things to me.
I buy this! And it seems to me, based only on my individual observation,
that some of what makes people "relate to" mathematics and music, can
also be seen among figure skaters. Please don't make me explain -- I'm
not sure I could put it into words.
>Sure everyone struggles, but some particular struggles are so well-worn
>and safe that I consider them rather negligable as struggles. I
>"struggle" to type this mail to you, but that's nothing compared to, say,
>Cuba's struggle with the USA.
Never try to assess another's pain, trouble, or struggle. It's a losing
proposition. .... she says, speaking as a member of one of the last
remaining oppressed minorities (please don't take me seriously on this) --
the left-handed.
>For me, classical music is just noise. It's a genre I haven't been able
>to penetrate even though many friends have tried to enlighten me. If by
>addressing politics of the moment, you mean stuff along the lines of
>Wagner and the Nazis, uhm, no I have a really hard time appreciating
>that stuff.
Just to be pedantic, Wagner post-dated the classical period (the second
half of the 18th century). I *believe* that he is considered a "romantic"
composer. Yes, yes, I know, we also use the term "classical" more loosely
to refer to formal (non-folk, non-pop) music in the European tradition,
but if we are going to have a discussion about all the different
"dialects" of rock and roll or R&B, (which we seem to be having), we might
as well do the old dead Europeans the same favor of at least
differentiating among them to the level of 50-year "styles/schools".
janet
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19970610065...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) wrote:
> In article <01bc7563$14cb2140$4bee8bcf@grandpuba>, "Dario"
> <gran...@followme.com> writes:
>
> >. if this was the 70' you'd all
> >be saying that if someone skated to a disco song people would leave in
> >droves. funny, the audiene seems to love Kurt brickhouse( he even scored
> >perfect ten with this from so called old judes who don't like this kind
> of
> >music -- at the canadian pros) and liz's i will survive. if anything. i
> >think the audience loves songs like these. they always seem to be claping
> >along. those numbers usually bring down the house. so i don't know what's
> >up with the audiene leaving in droves thing is about. especially with the
> >rock and roll skating specials popping up. if this music isn't what
> people
> >want then why does pop music stand for popular -- as in selling
> millions.
>
> This is because we're living in the nineties, and the songs from the
> seventies are now "nostalgia." I would have detested these songs in the
> seventies, and I did, but now you never hear them, and they remind me of
> high school, so they make me smile and I can sing along. In the seventies
> I'd've been seeking a barf bag.
Oh my God. Someone else feels the same way I do.
I first realized this several years ago when a local radio station, on
April 1, announced without any preamble that it was "going to an all-disco
format." All they played all orning was disco records. Of course, it was
an April Fool's joke, but I have to admit, I was smiling and laughing all
morning...and when I was in high school, this stuff made me want to puke!
> These things happen. The stuff no one can agree to like that is current
> today will be welcomed nostalgia in twenty years. Wait and see.
>
> :-) Peg
That's for sure.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <339CD2...@nospam.erols.com>, dej...@nospam.erols.com wrote:
[snip]
> i believe that a skatewr used melissa ethridge "i'm the only one" last
> season on the pro circuit, was it katerina witt?
Yes, and Elaine Zayak too.
> micheal (ak not chack,
> the other one) uses HM in one of his exhibitions, i forget which.
> certainly joe slobobchieck (sp?) counts with his love of MeatLoaf
>
> dejah
That would be Bruce Springsteen, not Meat Loaf. Yeah, he skates to "Heaven
Can Wait," but I wouldn't exactly call that heavy metal!
Notdeby
>i think my thread has gotten out of hand
I think it's no longer your thread. It belongs to the masses ").
>...what i was saying is that an occasonal sprinkle of
>something modern would make a great change.
No, Dario, you were saying you wanted to see something that 'you' define
as modern. Hey...there 'is' still classical music being composed these
days. It isn't 'all' by dead guys (I seemed to have been glossing over
that point myself, not meaning to, but getting caught up in the idea of
"popular" music of a certain ilk being "modern." Apologies). And Jazz. And
Blues. And Traditional. And etc., etc., etc.
> if this was the 70' you'd all
>be saying that if someone skated to a disco song people would leave in
>droves.
You were the one who mentioned "droves," dear. And I agree with Peg...if
this was the '70's, you can bet your sweet patootie 'I'd' be leaving in
droves "). I think disco was crud then and I still hold that position.
Nowadays, it's a matter of nostalgia for many. Plus, you may be hearing
some of the "better" stuff, rather than getting all the garbage along with
stuff that wasn't half bad, or could even be fun. On top of which, you're
speaking of it now being presented in a context with "visual commentary,"
that makes it a whole different kettle of fish.
>... if this music isn't what people
>want then why does pop music stand for popular -- as in selling
millions.
It has to do with who has the money and what they're spending their...what
is it called...discretionary income on. Think about all the millions the
music you're thinking of, and counting as modern and/or popular, 'doesn't'
get sold to. Think of the millions that are buying classical music, but
when you get to the umpteenth recording of something, by the
skeighty-eighth orchestra, led by the skillionth conductor...well, how
does that fit into nice, neat categories and obvious "selling points" for
the marketing end, like pop does? The market is spread out messier. What
about the millions of jazz fans? Popular music, by the way, is a large
market...huge. It encompases...well, I'm not sure what all, anymore. I
mean, Frank Sinatra is considered to do "pop" music, as in popular. So, so
much for nice, neat definitions.
>so what would be the difference if it's disco or dance or r&B. i
guarentee
>the audience wouldn't leave and would be clapping along like they always
do
>to upbeat songs.
I'm 'so' glad you can make such guarantees. I think Mr. and Mrs. Average
Citizen would probably sit still through one or two disco numbers
(nostalgia) and what I might call "standard" Rhythm and Blues (rather than
the "diva pop" type stuff you mentioned) is such great music, I'd be
hard-pressed to explain someone wanting to walk out on it. What 'you'
mentioned, specifically, in your original post, however, with all it's
"attitude" talk, is 'not' good stuff. It's milquetoast (sp?). And, a
'whole' show of that, unless 'specifically' packaged and 'presented' for
the sort of audience who enjoys that sort of stuff, is not going to be
well-received by the "general audience at large"...or probably the judges,
either (besides which, it's vocal music).
In article <199706100106...@babyblue.cs.yale.edu>, Ryan Budney
<ry...@math.cornell.edu> writes:
Me:
>>I disagree totally. I think 'alot' of what attracts people to figure
>>skating is the "immediateness" of it. The sheer attraction of beautiful,
>>fluid movement. That appreciation may 'then' be cultivated to include a
>>greater appreciation of other attributes.
>
>Hmm, I guess this is being a stick in the mud, but if you're just
>attracted to beautiful fluid movement, why not just stare at a stream or
>a burning fire or something? That's hard to beat for beauty and fluidity
>but I don't want to watch it for hours on end, unless I have something
>else on my mind.
Three words, silly boy: the human body.
>For me much of skating appreciation comes from seeing the physical
>discipline, the control, the creativity, and that's how I draw
>similarities to appreciating stuff like mathematics and classical music.
>These are platonic things to me.
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. And, I'm sure there are others like
you. But, I think that's not the experience of most people. Further, I
think some people may 'come' to a similar appreciation as yours, as they
watch and learn more about it. Primarily, though, I think the reaction is
visceral for folks...watching beautiful bodies move (or bodies moving
beautifully) or feeling the joy and pleasure of the movement in their own
body.
>>OH...c'mon, Ryan! Give to me the break "). Who isn't struggling with
>>modern society? Each in their own way? Some lives are definitely rougher
>>than others, but I don't believe that has to do with enjoying music. And
>
>Have your break then. Not everyone views music as such an ideal object as
>you seem to ie: there is the intent of music, the lyrics, the meaning.
>Sounding pretty isn't good enough for some.
Whatever do you construe as "idealized" in the way I presented this?
You're also assuming I've been telling you about 'my' experience of
music...and I haven't been. I am expressing what I believe is the way that
the 'majority' of people experience music. Or the way the majority of
people 'first' experience music. Viscerally. Immediately.
>Sure everyone struggles, but some particular struggles are so well-worn
>and safe that I consider them rather negligable as struggles. I
>"struggle" to type this mail to you, but that's nothing compared to, say,
>Cuba's struggle with the USA.
(Audible Lurch noises from my side of the computer screen) I 'mean' the
struggle for existence. The struggle with everyday cares and woes. The
struggle to be human. The struggle for meaning. The struggle to
communicate and be understood. The struggle for love. You're being
purposely obtuse, aren't you ")?
>>>>Hey...here's an idea you may consider...the skaters 'have' heard
>>>>the music you like, but THEY DON'T LIKE IT. I know...it's tough
>>>>to ponder...innit it?
>>>
>>>That's not the situation.
>>
>>Well, now, there's a big assumption. Don'tcha think?
>
>No. I'm a figure skater of some sort
So, you feel it's safe to assume that what you think is true of all figure
skaters?
>>>not risk pushing too many boundaries at once. Some skaters *do* skate
to
>>>new music in their own personal, private time, but they generally avoid
>>>performing to it in front of large audiences.
>
>>New music, meaning contemporary? Meaning...meaning what? I agree that
>>skaters have reasons to think carefully about what music they choose.
>
>New music, as in music with a new sound. Yeah, everything has been done
>before, according to you.
So, you mean 'any' type of music, any musical genre, that is exploring
"new" sounds. As in, sounds that are currently not being heard or seem to
never have been used or heard before to contemporary ears. So, I gather
you're including classical, jazz, blues, rock and roll, country,
traditional...all of it...the whole shebang. As to the second remark, I
was referring to Dario's inferrence (and 'yours' for that matter) that
only a certain segment of society (I gather the meaning to be certain
younger folks who are "in the know") could 'possibly' understand and
appreciate "new" music or contemporary music (see: not "into the
nineties"; not "in spirit with innovations in music") and, further, that
was other people's problem in not liking it, and skaters not using
it...everyone who doesn't like it is just a bunch of old fuddy-duddies.
> That's why Elvis, the British invasion, Dylan
>goes electric and Rap were all such low-impact events.
How can you 'even' put Rap in a group with Elvis and the British Invasion?
Astounding. Dylan never impressed me one whit. I think he was a most
excellent snake oil salesman. The high point of his career, for me, was
"Subterranean Homesick Blues" (isn't that it?), most notable for a really
neat video. Although I do appreciate some of the "covers" other people
have done of his stuff (most decidedly 'not' Joan Baez, however ") ). I
like to think of Dylan as the Picasso of Rock 'n' Roll (and, no...that's
'not' a good thing ") ") ") ).
Anyway, the point is, there is music that has a "new" face and a "new"
sound to contemporary ears, but the 'argument' is as old as, older than,
Methuselah.
>>So, everything new is good? Everything new is innovative? Point of note:
>
>Suspiciously, I have never said that.
It's not suspicious. It would seem you have a real knack for creating your
'own' arguments out of the material of others' arguments and ignoring the
argument that was taking place in the first place, you know. This was
'about' assumptions 'you' made about what Dario was trying to say, when,
in fact, you were off base with Dario to begin with, except on one small
point. P.S. I notice that you 'fess up to that later. Good for you, Ryan.
It's good to know oneself ").
>>Jon! You consider what Dario and Ryan mentioned to be standard musical
>>taste? I'm astounded. It's the taste of certain segments of America, but
>>it's no standard, by any means. Otherwise, I agree with your point,
>>though.
>
>Considering the recent popularity of grunge (a punk-rock spin-off) and
>Rap (ground breaking Hip-Hop), yes, the music I've been talking about has
>to do with rather common tastes among people 30 years old or younger.
And they don't like anything else and forget about all the other people
who aren't in your convenient demographic?
>>So...how do they feel about classical music that addresses the politics
of
>>the moment, social strife, and/or sexual angst (at least at the time
they
>>were written)? Maybe it's your exposure to different sorts of music vs.
>>their experience. It's often only a matter of what you are exposed to
>>while you grow up.
>
>For me, classical music is just noise. It's a genre I haven't been able
>to penetrate even though many friends have tried to enlighten me. If by
>addressing politics of the moment, you mean stuff along the lines of
>Wagner and the Nazis, uhm, no I have a really hard time appreciating
>that stuff. The theme to Star Wars I appreciate, there! I give you one.
:)
>but I only appreciate it because it's parcelled with a heroic story that
>I'm fond of.
You call "Star Wars" classical? Geez. Peg, Frank, Sandra Loosemore...what
say you? Can you truly plunk that into the classical music category? I
sure wouldn't. But, I wasn't thinking of Wagner, at all. Actually, the
first thing that came to my mind is Ravel's "La Valse."
And don't forget to insert all that good stuff Peg pointed out.
>>Your first assumption is that a skater's thinking would tend towards
>>classical thought. Why would that be so? I think one doesn't analyze
>>music, as much as experience it (Joe Average, that is...I see those
music
>>theorists sneeking up on me with daggers in their fists ") ).
>
>That's exactly what I tried to explain in the sentance before. See:
>
>>So, I figure that figure skating is set apart from the music world
>>basically because of inertia. If you're young and you spend most of
your
>>time training, locked inside the figure skating world with all these
>>transcendental ideals that you're striving to achieve, then even if you
>>do get out of the figure skating world once and a while, you won't have
a
>>feel for the situation. If you try to analyse Hip Hop or Punk Rock in
>>some kind of ancient Greek mode of thought, you're going to be
>>horribly disappointed. Where's the glorification of mankind?
>
>If you don't agree that skating ideals are basically classical (I prefer
>to say Greek, it reminds me of Plato and Pythagoras, Leibnitz, Pangloss
and
>so on) in character, then my explaination of why figure skaters would
>reject new sounding music (as in Hip-Hop, punk rock...) doesn't work.
I'll tell you what...I certainly think one doesn't just stumble into
classical thought based on one's physical training. It may give you a
bodily sense of classical ideals, 'if' the movement idiom is classically
based, but I think one needs to be purposely taught classical thought.
>>otherwise. Most folks want to listen and be moved by the beautiful
sound.
>>Which you can multiply by about a hundred when you're talking about
things
>>that people want to 'move' to or, moreso, music that 'makes' them move.
>>That compels them to move.
Good stuff on Punk snipped. But, ya know, I think your..."continuum" needs
a bit of work. Some of the bands you mentioned as 'later' than The Ramones
and the Clash and sounds resulting out of their work, were around at the
same time as The Ramones (who were 'far' from the only influential Punk
band when they were "coming up") and some of them preceded The Clash by a
long stretch. Early Punk was 'very' diversified in sound, content, and
intent. And...leave us not forget the "original" punks: Iggy Pop and The
Stooges. For that matter, I guess these bands could also be considered to
have roots in The Velvet Underground and Lou Reed.
Anyway...I digress.
>Part of punk rock is the rejection of "the standards music must adhere to
>for mass acceptance," like postmodernist art stuff, y'know, pictures of
>Campell's soup cans, or a big rotting cow corpse, stuff like that.
Part of it was an exploration that one writer in the "Village Voice"
coined "white soul." And I've leaned much heavier towards American Punk,
than English, in my personal preference. When you (general) say "Punk,"
most people think "Sex Pistols." Generally, I've found I've had to use the
term "New Wave," for folks to be "on the page" with me. Anyway, I've had
discussions with a friend about this, since I 'dearly' love Punk. She's an
intellectual type, by the way, who didn't understand some of my more
"visceral" approach to music until she got older. Why I mention that is,
she made note that Punk didn't last or have the impact it might have,
because it tended to be too intellectual...or the best parts of it were
something you had to think about or a joke you had to get or references
you needed to catch. I had to admit she was right. It just didn't have
that mass popular appeal. Although it was certainly "au courant" in its
time. And, as you've intimated, it was/is "felt" in newer expressions like
Grunge and Alternative.
>>If they're like me, the skaters wouldn't be interested in the music
Dario
>>mentioned. Not because I "can't relate, so I 'just' don't get it," but
>>because I think it's lousy music and even lousier and limiting to move
to.
>>I think it stinks ").
>
>I must admit, you did catch me a bit. I haven't a clue as to what kind of
>music Dario is referring to, but that didn't stop me, did it? :)
I guess it's one sort of strategy, anyway ").
In article <19970610114...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) writes:
>Peg, a music theorist who is *not* stalking NotDeby
Whew! Uh...put down the dagger, Peg ") ") ").
> unless she begins to
>make simplistic generalizations about music theorists and the purposes
for
>which classical music has been and continues to be written :-)
They do it 'cause it's fun, right ")? Simple 'and' general, she said,
being ever so proud of her cleverness (snicker).
Waiting for some skater to use Laurie Anderson for their Olympic long.
Suddenly, in a great flash, Buddy Holly comes to mind...")
Not "That'll Be the Day" Deby (just in case)
HILL JANET SWAN
>No, Dario, you were saying you wanted to see something that 'you' define
>as modern. Hey...there 'is' still classical music being composed these
>days. It isn't 'all' by dead guys (I seemed to have been glossing over
>that point myself, not meaning to, but getting caught up in the idea of
>"popular" music of a certain ilk being "modern." Apologies). And Jazz. And
>Blues. And Traditional. And etc., etc., etc.
Yes, but REALLY, would YOU want to watch someone skating to Philip Glass?
Or John Cage? (well, Torvill and Dean have done that, but it was a very
*special* John Cage piece)
>Waiting for some skater to use Laurie Anderson for their Olympic long.
>Suddenly, in a great flash, Buddy Holly comes to mind...")
I'm still waiting for some skater to use Christine Lavin's "As Close To
Flying". Hey, I'm still waiting for the wonderful day when I find "Four
Bitchin Babes" at the used CD/tape counter somewhere. In the meantime,
I'm putting Squirrel Nut Zippers on the PA system to skate to because it
IS eminently skateable even if it's not ABOUT skating.
Oh! Oh! I just thought of a wonderful piece for Lloyd Eisler -- KD
Lang's "Big Boned Girl From Alberta". And if not Lloyd, then Sumners.
janet
(sorry, I was up at 4:45 to get to a figures practice this morning and I'm
a bit giddy by now)
Notdeby
In article <5njtcg$4...@lace.colorado.edu>, hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HILL
JANET SWAN) writes:
>>For me much of skating appreciation comes from seeing the physical
>>discipline, the control, the creativity, and that's how I draw
>>similarities to appreciating stuff like mathematics and classical music.
>>These are platonic things to me.
>
>I buy this! And it seems to me, based only on my individual observation,
>that some of what makes people "relate to" mathematics and music, can
>also be seen among figure skaters. Please don't make me explain -- I'm
>not sure I could put it into words.
You should have been over in the ballet newsgroup, Janet, when we
discussed the relation between the love of dance, music, math, and cats. I
think you'll be interested in something I wrote:
"Well...this is just plain spooky folks...what is the connection...people
who love ballet, cats, math, and physics (and how about figure skating -
she said hopefully)."
It turns out 'alot' of us shared that very same "sense" of things.
Pretty scarey stuff ") ") "). And...Janet...remember...we're the one's
who 'understand' Dick Button ") ") ").
Notdeby
In article <199706101947...@babyblue.cs.yale.edu>, Ryan Budney
<ry...@math.cornell.edu> writes:
Me:
>>was referring to Dario's inferrence (and 'yours' for that matter) that
>>only a certain segment of society (I gather the meaning to be certain
>>younger folks who are "in the know") could 'possibly' understand and
>>appreciate "new" music or contemporary music (see: not "into the
>>nineties"; not "in spirit with innovations in music") and, further, that
>>was other people's problem in not liking it, and skaters not using
>>it...everyone who doesn't like it is just a bunch of old fuddy-duddies.
>
>Heck, I don't mean to insult y'all. I have plenty of old fuddy-duddy
>friends, and we get along. :)
Oh...well...that's the way it is, then...oh...I see...you call me an old
fuddy-duddy...fine...well...harumph ") ") "). You should 'be' so lucky
that I'd be an old fuddy-duddy ").
> One of the strangest things I've noticed
>recently is that my musical tastes and my father's musical tastes are
>converging. This is weird...
Uh-oh. I guess guys notice they start turning into their fathers, just
like women notice they start turning into their mothers. AAAAIIIIIEEEEE
")!
>...I'm not a hippopotamus,
>I only have a certain fixed human breadth, so I don't even try to explore
>all of pop/semipopular culture. I just gobble up what comes my way, and
>since I'm not living in NYC like you Notdeby, it isn't a feast.
Thank you, Lord, for making me a New Yorker "). However, I wasn't
'always' a New Yorker. I had to go seeking after musical knowlege (such as
it is ") ). In fact, I still do (though, admittedly, probably not
'nearly' as hard as some). My biggest advantage? I was the baby in a home
where the musical taste of those around me was as diverse as it gets.
>>How can you 'even' put Rap in a group with Elvis and the British
Invasion?
>>Astounding. Dylan never impressed me one whit. I think he was a most
>>excellent snake oil salesman. The high point of his career, for me, was
>>"Subterranean Homesick Blues" (isn't that it?), most notable for a
really
>>neat video. Although I do appreciate some of the "covers" other people
>>have done of his stuff (most decidedly 'not' Joan Baez, however ") ).
I
>>like to think of Dylan as the Picasso of Rock 'n' Roll (and, no...that's
>>'not' a good thing ") ") ") ).
>
>Dylan impressed John Lennon and had a huge impact on him. When Lennon
>and Dylan met for the first time, Dylan asked Lennon why his lyrics were
>so lacking in content. This shocked Lennon and had a big impact on him.
>Info courtesy of the history channel "history of rock and roll" special.
:)
Well, ya know...I love John Lennon, but that 'sure' doesn't mean I have to
believe he was always right; all-knowing, all-seeing. Who is? And even
snake oil salesmen might sometimes get it right. But, hey! At least that
gives me 'one' reason to like Dylan...though I suspect John coulda gotten
it "right" at some point, without Dylan's remarks. Ahem.
>I personally think the biggest musical event of the '80s was that crazy
>RUN/DMC video with, hmm, was it Aerosmith? "Walk this way". It turned Rap
>from not being considered music (by things like the Grammies and MTV)
into a
>huge chunk of contemporary music. At least, I can't think of an event of
>more significance for music in the '80s, so Rap made my list. I'd *like*
>the '80s to be remembered for the Smiths album "The Queen is Dead" but I
>don't think I'll get my way.
I know one Aerosmith fan you just made 'very' happy "). It 'may'
certainly be considered an "event," but I don't consider it to be
important in changing the face of or course of musical history, like those
other events. I think it was "fashion," not substance.
>>You call "Star Wars" classical? Geez. Peg, Frank, Sandra
Loosemore...what
>>say you? Can you truly plunk that into the classical music category? I
>>sure wouldn't. But, I wasn't thinking of Wagner, at all. Actually, the
>>first thing that came to my mind is Ravel's "La Valse."
>
>Star Wars has a heroic sounding theme song, which was performed by the
>Boston Symphony Orchestra (I think). "Classical music" to me is a pretty
>big grey area without much resolution to it. So when I put all those
things
>together: heroic, performed by a symphony orchestra and with no funky
>innovations that I know of, that's enough for me to call it classical
>music.
Quick! I'll cover you, while you make a run for the wings. I see those
music theorists and their daggers...No funky innovations, indeed!
>... I don't have many
>adjectives for different kinds of classical music. It's just a blob to
>me, because I just don't experience it that often.
Then you must, you must! I urge you, most strongly! Ask Peg...she'll tell
you some good stuff to get started on...huh, Peg ")? Or you could always
start your classical music education like 'I' did...Bugs Bunny cartoons
") ") ").
>>Good stuff on Punk snipped. But, ya know, I think your..."continuum"
needs
>>a bit of work. Some of the bands you mentioned as 'later' than The
Ramones
>>and the Clash and sounds resulting out of their work, were around at the
>>same time as The Ramones (who were 'far' from the only influential Punk
>>band when they were "coming up") and some of them preceded The Clash by
a
>>long stretch. Early Punk was 'very' diversified in sound, content, and
>>intent. And...leave us not forget the "original" punks: Iggy Pop and The
>>Stooges. For that matter, I guess these bands could also be considered
to
>>have roots in The Velvet Underground and Lou Reed.
>
>About my continuum, I wanted to use band names that maybe people would
have
>heard before. If I started talking about bands that vanished like x-ray
>specs I'd be that much closer to sounding like jibberish.
They didn't 'all' vanish like x-ray specs, exactly. No more so than The
Ramones (though I agree that you may have gotten to a point where nobody
knew who you were talking about). Can't even remember the last time I saw
those guys...hmmmm. I don't think 'any' of those early Punk bands are
around anymore...But, hey...David Byrne is still around and kickin' ").
Twyla Tharp even choreographed a piece of his, "The Catherine Wheel,"
several years ago.
In article <5nkmbd$k...@lace.colorado.edu>, hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HILL
JANET SWAN) writes:
>>No, Dario, you were saying you wanted to see something that 'you'
define
>>as modern. Hey...there 'is' still classical music being composed these
>>days. It isn't 'all' by dead guys (I seemed to have been glossing over
>>that point myself, not meaning to, but getting caught up in the idea of
>>"popular" music of a certain ilk being "modern." Apologies). And Jazz.
And
>>Blues. And Traditional. And etc., etc., etc.
>
>Yes, but REALLY, would YOU want to watch someone skating to Philip Glass?
>Or John Cage? (well, Torvill and Dean have done that, but it was a very
>*special* John Cage piece)
Ahhhh! But you forget! I was the one who suggested bunny hops and
crossovers to Philip Glass "). Minimalist choreography, you see ").
Hey! It could work ").
Valerie
In article <339CD2...@nospam.erols.com>,
Mary E Tyler <dej...@nospam.erols.com> wrote:
>Valerie wrote:
>>
>> But really, folks, don't you think this was just a trolling mission? A
>> very successful one, I'd say, with a great deal of amusement value. I
>> mean, just try to picture Dorothy Hamill skating to "Shoop" by
>> Salt'n'Peppa (I think) or "Bring Me Some Water" by Melissa Etheridge!
>> You'll see Elvis skate to "Memories" before THAT happens! ;-) And no,
>> that's not a slam at either of them or at Dario.
>>
>> Val
>
>the other one) uses HM in one of his exhibitions, i forget which.
>certainly joe slobobchieck (sp?) counts with his love of MeatLoaf
>
>dejah
>
Katerina and Elaine Zayak both used that number. My point was, everybody
has their own style. I do NOT think you'll ever see Dorothy skating to
"Bring Me Some Water" or "I Want You". Somebody else, maybe.
Val
PegLewis
In article <19970610212...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
not...@aol.com (Notdeby) writes:
[Ryan:]
>>For me, classical music is just noise. It's a genre I haven't been able
>>to penetrate even though many friends have tried to enlighten me. If by
>>addressing politics of the moment, you mean stuff along the lines of
>>Wagner and the Nazis, uhm, no I have a really hard time appreciating
>>that stuff. The theme to Star Wars I appreciate, there! I give you one.
>:)
>>but I only appreciate it because it's parcelled with a heroic story that
>>I'm fond of.
>
>You call "Star Wars" classical? Geez. Peg, Frank, Sandra Loosemore...what
>say you? Can you truly plunk that into the classical music category? I
>sure wouldn't. But, I wasn't thinking of Wagner, at all. Actually, the
>first thing that came to my mind is Ravel's "La Valse."
>
>And don't forget to insert all that good stuff Peg pointed out.
In the liner notes for the sound track to Star Wars (Don't forget, I was
awestruck by this John Williams score when I was 17 and entering college,
before I learned that he was lifting liberally from Classical composers,
so Williams' word was like God's to me back then, in my fervent quest to
write for films and TV...), he outright said he modeled the music upon
Wagner, using signature tunes for each character, full orchestra with epic
scope, yada, yada. Once you read the liner notes, you're kind of sucked
into the Wagnerian parallels by default. (And it was a change of pace
after the rock songs and five piece bands that tended to be the rage in
the seventies for those directors who saw the soundtrack as a necessary
beast unworthy of spending any real dollars on.)
Course, I see lots of Holst "The Planets" in the Star Wars music, too [I
believe the rough cut was actually played with Mars as the temporary music
in the Darth Vader scenes, and that Lucas specifically instructed Williams
to write something evocative of Mars for Vader's identifying sound], as
well as orchestrations and atmosphere music more like Debussy & Ravel, so
I can see the allusion to La Valse... although I don't see any sly parody
in Star Wars, aside from the big band track in the cantina scene.
Now, to someone who thinks major/minor tonality played by an orchestra
without a drum set backup equals "classical" music, I can see the term
applied. I may not agree with the label, but I *can* see how someone
unacquainted with the actual range of musical expression encompassed by
the inadequate term of "classical music" could label John Williams' music
as "classical."
To me, however, it is film music. Brilliantly employed, blatantly lifted
from classical composers, catchy & sales-generating film music, but film
music nonetheless. By the same token, Aida is stage music, every bit as
much as Stomp, or Rent, or Cats, or La Valse, or any Monteverdi opera
score (gee, I saw Marilyn Horne play a trouser title role in one of these
and I can't think of the Hero who was the title character... Help!). And
Gospel is Church music, just like Bach Cantatas & some Handel Oratorios.
Ryan again:
>Star Wars has a heroic sounding theme song, which was performed by the
>Boston Symphony Orchestra (I think).
London Phil, originally. They read well, and do lots of scores - at least,
they DID lots of scores in the 70's & 80's (I don't get out to films much
any more).
< So when I put all those things
>together: heroic, performed by a symphony orchestra and with no funky
>innovations that I know of, that's enough for me to call it classical
>music.
I have news. Nothing is innovative. We've heard strings, winds, percussion
and voices, and lately electronically generated and modified sounds since
music began. There is nothing new in music, just unheard - by some -
combinations of sounds and silences. John Tesh's [hurl me plenty] pet
parallel fifths date back to the first forays into written notation. Rap
is just Sprechgesang with a drum beat. "Everything old is new again."
>... I don't have many
>adjectives for different kinds of classical music. It's just a blob to
>me, because I just don't experience it that often.
As NotDeby suggested, I would be *delighted* to give you a listening list
to expose you to the wide range of "classical" music. (Bugs is one popular
departure point, as were Smurfs, and for Stravinsky: The Adventures of
Rocky & Bullwinkle...)
Question to make this skating related: Did any skater at national level
have the temerity to skate to Star Wars or Star Trek film music? Marching
bands went nuts over it, but I really do not remember televised skaters
using this stuff.
PegLewis
>>No, Dario, you were saying you wanted to see something that 'you'
define
>>as modern. Hey...there 'is' still classical music being composed these
>>days. It isn't 'all' by dead guys (I seemed to have been glossing over
>>that point myself, not meaning to, but getting caught up in the idea of
>>"popular" music of a certain ilk being "modern." Apologies). And Jazz.
And
>>Blues. And Traditional. And etc., etc., etc.
>
>Yes, but REALLY, would YOU want to watch someone skating to Philip Glass?
>Or John Cage? (well, Torvill and Dean have done that, but it was a very
>*special* John Cage piece)
1) I haven't heard all Cage or Glass works to date. Maybe something great
for the purpose out there.
2) They ain't dead yet.
3) Not all composers in the "classic" ilk write like Cage or Glass - see
Peg waving her hand and making "Oooo, ooooo!" sounds? She's one who writes
with tonality. Some use serial techniques. Some use music concrete
techniques. I could go on, but no one really wants to know that much
detail.
The point is, you can't pigeonhole any genre as desirable or
not-desirable...
And I'm sure there are composers out there, like me, who are dying to
write specifically for a good skater but aren't even considered as a
resource because we're "contemporary classical composers."
PegLewis
In article <01bc7501$c4573d40$4cee8bcf@grandpuba>, "dario"
<gran...@followme.com> writes:
>dario
>
>the guy who hates pushing "shift" to capitalize, on his keyboard.
>
>
And here I thought you were possessed by the spirit of e e cummings.
Peg, hugely disillusioned :-P
PegLewis
In article <5njtcg$4...@lace.colorado.edu>, hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HILL
JANET SWAN) writes:
[quoting Ryan:]
>>For me much of skating appreciation comes from seeing the physical
>>discipline, the control, the creativity, and that's how I draw
>>similarities to appreciating stuff like mathematics and classical music.
>>These are platonic things to me.
>
>I buy this! And it seems to me, based only on my individual observation,
>that some of what makes people "relate to" mathematics and music, can
>also be seen among figure skaters. Please don't make me explain -- I'm
>not sure I could put it into words.
Now, we should all be expecting one of those "Admit it, you just watch
skating for the sexual thrill of it," posts. At least that one person
finds the experience more than platonic... and there are times (dance
belts, anyone?) when I'm in more that visceral camp myself.
Peg
Sandra Loosemore
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) writes:
> Question to make this skating related: Did any skater at national level
> have the temerity to skate to Star Wars or Star Trek film music? Marching
> bands went nuts over it, but I really do not remember televised skaters
> using this stuff.
Trifun Zivanovic, of course. He's used "Star Wars" for his short program
for at least the past two years. Incidentally, for his long program
this year, he "used the source" :-) and skated to Wagner.
-Sandra
Susan E Stone
PegLewis (pegl...@aol.com) wrote:
: Question to make this skating related: Did any skater at national level
: have the temerity to skate to Star Wars or Star Trek film music? Marching
: bands went nuts over it, but I really do not remember televised skaters
: using this stuff.
Which in a strange way shows how successful those soundtracks are at
being soundtracks. If the music from say, Independence Day, brought that
movie to mind as much as the SW score does Star Wars, I doubt Todd
would've skated to it. I know that I, as a member of the lowly TV
viewing audience, would have trouble taking an eligible competitive
program to SW or Trek music seriously.
Still, I think a Star Wars exhibition program would be a lot of fun--I'd
like it better than the ubiquitous Disney soundtracks and blandest common
denominator pop. It *is* good music, and it calls to mind great movies!
Maybe with the first prequel coming
out in 1999 (Ewan MacGregor! <drool> <sigh>), someone will think of it.
--Susan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Susan E. Stone * "The only place outside Heaven where
Penn Biology Dept. Academic Office * you can be perfectly safe from all
sst...@sas.upenn.edu * the dangers and perturbations of
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~sstone/ * love is Hell." --C.S. Lewis
Sally Vegso
In article <5nhk60$l...@lace.colorado.edu>, hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HILL
JANET SWAN) wrote:
>
> -- You DO take into account how the music will affect those watching --
> and those judging. While judges will not consciously mark you down just
> because they don't like your music, on a subconsious level, if your music
> puts them in a bad mood, that mood might affect the way your program looks
> to them.
>
With all due respect to Janet's experience as a judge, I have had coaches
and other skaters tell me time and again about their bad experiences with
judges who didn't like their music. I have one friend who skated her
program twice (both times well) in front of two different sets of judges,
and got wildly different marks between the two sets. The music was a
little disco-y, and people either loved it or hated it. My own coach
claims that she had a judge refuse to give her marks because she hated her
music. (I'm still not sure what the outcome of that one was...)
I would love to think that all judges are sensisble enough to keep their
own musical taste out of their judging, but I wouldn't bet my (potential)
Gold medal on it if I was a high-ranking skater. (Actually, I don't even
take that chance now as a punky little Adult Bronze skater.)
Just my $0.02
Sally
Notdeby
In article <19970611123...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) writes:
>In article <19970610212...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>not...@aol.com (Notdeby) writes:
>[Ryan:]
>>>For me, classical music is just noise. It's a genre I haven't been able
>>>to penetrate even though many friends have tried to enlighten me. If by
>>>addressing politics of the moment, you mean stuff along the lines of
>>>Wagner and the Nazis, uhm, no I have a really hard time appreciating
>>>that stuff. The theme to Star Wars I appreciate, there! I give you one.
>>>:) but I only appreciate it because it's parcelled with a heroic story
>>>that I'm fond of.
>>
>>You call "Star Wars" classical? Geez. Peg, Frank, Sandra Loosemore
>>...what say you? Can you truly plunk that into the classical music
>>category? I sure wouldn't. But, I wasn't thinking of Wagner, at all.
>>Actually, the first thing that came to my mind is Ravel's "La Valse."
>>
>In the liner notes for the sound track to Star Wars (Don't forget, I was
>awestruck by this John Williams score when I was 17 and entering college,
>before I learned that he was lifting liberally from Classical composers,
>so Williams' word was like God's to me back then, in my fervent quest to
>write for films and TV...),
Ah...c'mon, Peg...don't be so hard on yourself. 'Lots' of us are John
Williams lovers. I know he's considered trite by (at 'least') some
musicians, but I think he's extremely effective and successful (not just
monetarily) at what he does. He creates strongly emotional music, that
sometimes surprises you in its sensitivity. You know, you expect his stuff
to always sound very much alike, but lots of it doesn't. I think it has
lots of depth to it, especially considering it's meant for commercial
purposes. And all of this (and maybe more) makes it a natural for skating,
actually.
Why only like what's 'supposed' to be good for you, anyways "). That's
Dullsville, man!
> he outright said he modeled the music upon
>Wagner, using signature tunes for each character, full orchestra with
>epic scope, yada, yada...
Snippers.
>Course, I see lots of Holst "The Planets" in the Star Wars music, too
>[I believe the rough cut was actually played with Mars as the
>temporary music in the Darth Vader scenes...
Thanks! That was all cool to know.
>and that Lucas specifically instructed Williams
>to write something evocative of Mars for Vader's identifying sound], as
>well as orchestrations and atmosphere music more like Debussy & Ravel
>so I can see the allusion to La Valse... although I don't see any sly
>parody in Star Wars, aside from the big band track in the cantina scene.
When I first read this...I was baffled, but now I see. You're thinking
Wagner in connection to "Star Wars," we were talking Wagner related to
political/social statements in classical music. 'That's' why I brought up
"La Valse." But, hey...your way works, too ").
>Now, to someone who thinks major/minor tonality played by an orchestra
>without a drum set backup equals "classical" music, I can see the term
>applied. I may not agree with the label, but I *can* see how someone
>unacquainted with the actual range of musical expression encompassed
>by the inadequate term of "classical music" could label John Williams'
>music as "classical."
>
>To me, however, it is film music. Brilliantly employed, blatantly lifted
>from classical composers, catchy & sales-generating film music, but
>film music nonetheless. By the same token, Aida is stage music,
>every bit as much as Stomp, or Rent, or Cats, or La Valse, or any
>Monteverdi opera score (gee, I saw Marilyn Horne play a trouser title
>role in one of these and I can't think of the Hero who was the title
>character... Help!). And Gospel is Church music, just like Bach
>Cantatas & some Handel Oratorios.
Wow! Talk about your broad categorizing "). I guess I consider it (John
Williams, that is)...um...popular orchestral music for film. How's that
")? P.S. Was "La Valse" actually composed 'for' the stage? I hadn't
realized that.
>Ryan again:
>< So when I put all those things
>>together: heroic, performed by a symphony orchestra and with no
>>funky innovations that I know of, that's enough for me to call it
>>classical music.
>
>I have news. Nothing is innovative. We've heard strings, winds,
>percussion and voices, and lately electronically generated and
>modified sounds since music began. There is nothing new in music,
>just unheard - by some - combinations of sounds and silences.
>John Tesh's [hurl me plenty] pet parallel fifths date back to the first
>forays into written notation. Rap is just Sprechgesang with a drum
>beat. "Everything old is new again."
Do you have to feed those pet parallel fifths, or do they just need to be
brushed now and again and chucked under the chin ")? "Sprechgesang with a
drum beat"...good one, Peg (no, I don't know the genre...just a wit bit o'
Deutsch).
>>... I don't have many
>>adjectives for different kinds of classical music. It's just a blob to
>>me, because I just don't experience it that often.
>
>As NotDeby suggested, I would be *delighted* to give you a
>listening list to expose you to the wide range of "classical" music.
>(Bugs is one popular departure point, as were Smurfs, and for
>Stravinsky: The Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle...)
Oh, wow! However did I miss Stravinsky in Rocky and Bullwinkle?
In article <19970611123...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) writes:
>In article <01bc7501$c4573d40$4cee8bcf@grandpuba>, "dario"
><gran...@followme.com> writes:
>
>>dario
>>
>>the guy who hates pushing "shift" to capitalize, on his
>>keyboard.
>
>And here I thought you were possessed by the spirit of
>e e cummings
Given Dario's choice of music for skaters, I guess that would have meant
we should have expected the poem, "gee, i like to think of dreads..."
(I know, I'm really getting out there...I wonder if 'anyone' will get this
reference 'at all' ") )
Peg gets 10 points for the "comeback," by the way...2 for the comeback,
and 8 for being able to make reference to e e cummings...
In article <19970611123...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) writes:
>In article <5njtcg$4...@lace.colorado.edu>, hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HILL
>JANET SWAN) writes:
>[quoting Ryan:]
>>>For me much of skating appreciation comes from seeing the
>>>physical discipline, the control, the creativity, and that's how
>>>I draw similarities to appreciating stuff like mathematics and
>>>classical music.
>>>
>>>These are platonic things to me.
>>
>>I buy this! And it seems to me, based only on my individual
>>observation, that some of what makes people "relate to"
>>mathematics and music, can also be seen among figure skaters.
>>Please don't make me explain -- I'm not sure I could put it into
>>words.
>
>Now, we should all be expecting one of those "Admit it, you just
>watch skating for the sexual thrill of it," posts. At least that one
>person finds the experience more than platonic... and there are
>times (dance belts, anyone?) when I'm in more that visceral camp
>myself.
I would think Ryan would be one of the first on that bandwagon. Remember
his shared experience of the ice as lover? And all this time, I had
thought the sexuality was only in the bodies and movement ").
Oh! Skating! Thy joys are Myriad! ")
or, if you need your e e cummings fix "):
skating has lots of neat stuff to look at
skaters moving sexy
bodies blades sound
over the ice
ogling and staring and caressing
In article <19970611123...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) writes:
>In article <5nkmbd$k...@lace.colorado.edu>, hil...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HILL
>JANET SWAN) writes:
>
NotDeby:
>>>No, Dario, you were saying you wanted to see something that
>>>'you' define as modern. Hey...there 'is' still classical music
>>>being composed these days. It isn't 'all' by dead guys
>>>(I seemed to have been glossing over that point myself, not
>>>meaning to, but getting caught up in the idea of "popular" music
>>>of a certain ilk being "modern." Apologies). And Jazz.
>>>And Blues. And Traditional. And etc., etc., etc.
>>
>>Yes, but REALLY, would YOU want to watch someone skating
>>to Philip Glass? Or John Cage? (well, Torvill and Dean have done
>>that, but it was a very *special* John Cage piece)
>
El Snipolito.
>
>3) Not all composers in the "classic" ilk write like Cage or Glass
>- see Peg waving her hand and making "Oooo, ooooo!" sounds?
>She's one who writes with tonality. Some use serial techniques.
>Some use music concrete techniques. I could go on, but no one
>really wants to know that much detail.
"Music concrete, huh?" Somehow I have this great clash of images in my
mind between "music concrete" and skaters. It's not a pretty picture ").
And think of the poor skate blades...oh, the edgery (see reference:
Hindenberg, "Oh, the humanity!") ")!
>The point is, you can't pigeonhole any genre as desirable or
>not-desirable...
>
>And I'm sure there are composers out there, like me, who are
>dying to write specifically for a good skater but aren't even
>considered as a resource because we're "contemporary
>classical composers."
CALLING ALL LURKING SKATERS! Get off yer duffs and give this woman her day
in court. I am sure she has a demo tape at the ready to be whisked off
into your hands for a listen. E-mail should be addressed to:
pegl...@aol.com
...just remember the little people, Peg, who got you there, when you get
where you're going (the Alien Short People, of course ") ") ")
)...That is if you're not too busy counting all the money from your oil
well or slappin' doggies as you swagger by 'em (I thought you were
supposed to sashay by doggies...)...
HILL JANET SWAN
>>dario
>>the guy who hates pushing "shift" to capitalize, on his keyboard.
>
Probably the spirit of Melvil Dewey (he of the Dewey Decimal
Classification system). He was a passionate proponent of simplification.
Capitalization was one thing he thought we could do without. Spelling
oddities was another. (He and G.B. Shaw had at least this in common).
Old Melvil was christened Melville, but decided that that the "le" at the
end was unnecessary. He tried changing his surname's spelling to "Dui",
but eventually relented and went back to Dewey. Anyhow .... check out
your library's catalog and notice how little is capitalized. Pressing the
shift key was early on (back when it required a lot of effort to press the
shift key) decided to be an unnecessary additional step.
janet
digressing again
Ummmmmmm ...... skating content ........ when I left my previous job, my
staff gave my a Northwestern University sweatshirt with the Dewey number
on the back that stands for "figure skater who is a librarian". You can
also create a Dewey number that means "librarian who is also a skater",
but they chose the first. Clearly, they were people who understood my
obsession.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19970610212...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
not...@aol.com (Notdeby) wrote:
[snippity-dee]
> Popular music, by the way, is a large
> market...huge. It encompases...well, I'm not sure what all, anymore. I
> mean, Frank Sinatra is considered to do "pop" music, as in popular. So, so
> much for nice, neat definitions.
For some reason, that just brings a song to mind:
"Some like a pop-type refrain,
I'm sure that if
I heard even one riff
'Twould bore me terrifically too,
Yet I get a KICK out of you!"
Or is it "bop-type"?...
And yeah, yeah, Bettina, I know these are but bowlderlized lyrics of the
original Cole Porter: "Some get a kick from cocaine/I'm sure that if I
took even one sniff..." Or did it actually start out "I get no kick from
cocaine"?
Anyway, Frank Sinatra don't sing about no cocaine, and Brian Orser don't
skate about none neither...
Trudi Marrapodi
> >No, Dario, you were saying you wanted to see something that 'you' define
> >as modern. Hey...there 'is' still classical music being composed these
> >days. It isn't 'all' by dead guys (I seemed to have been glossing over
> >that point myself, not meaning to, but getting caught up in the idea of
> >"popular" music of a certain ilk being "modern." Apologies). And Jazz. And
> >Blues. And Traditional. And etc., etc., etc.
>
> Yes, but REALLY, would YOU want to watch someone skating to Philip Glass?
> Or John Cage? (well, Torvill and Dean have done that, but it was a very
> *special* John Cage piece)
>
> >Waiting for some skater to use Laurie Anderson for their Olympic long.
> >Suddenly, in a great flash, Buddy Holly comes to mind...")
I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing an OD this year to "Rave On." In
anything, it may be too SHORT to use as is.
> I'm still waiting for some skater to use Christine Lavin's "As Close To
> Flying". Hey, I'm still waiting for the wonderful day when I find "Four
> Bitchin Babes" at the used CD/tape counter somewhere.
Oh, I have this, and that damn song makes me cry every time I listen to
it. That woman got it all down when it comes to being a skater or a
skating fan, and I mean ALL.
> In the meantime,
> I'm putting Squirrel Nut Zippers on the PA system to skate to because it
> IS eminently skateable even if it's not ABOUT skating.
Now there's a band I haven't heard of. Barenaked Ladies, yes. Squirrel Nut
Zippers, no.
> Oh! Oh! I just thought of a wonderful piece for Lloyd Eisler -- KD
> Lang's "Big Boned Girl From Alberta". And if not Lloyd, then Sumners.
Too bad there isn't a song called "Big Boned Gal from Seaforth, Ontario," huh?
> janet
>
> (sorry, I was up at 4:45 to get to a figures practice this morning and I'm
> a bit giddy by now)
Keep on, Janet! We love ya when you're giddy!
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19970611123...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) wrote:
[snip]
> Question to make this skating related: Did any skater at national level
> have the temerity to skate to Star Wars or Star Trek film music? Marching
> bands went nuts over it, but I really do not remember televised skaters
> using this stuff.
>
> Peg
A junior men's skater has in the States--Trifun Zuvanovic, I think.
Finch Family
On 11 Jun 1997, PegLewis wrote:
> 1) I haven't heard all Cage or Glass works to date. Maybe something great
> for the purpose out there.
> 2) They ain't dead yet.
Cage is still alive? I figured he'd have been done in by a bad mushroom by
now.
> 3) Not all composers in the "classic" ilk write like Cage or Glass - see
> Peg waving her hand and making "Oooo, ooooo!" sounds? She's one who writes
> with tonality. Some use serial techniques. Some use music concrete
> techniques. I could go on, but no one really wants to know that much
> detail.
Love to, but maybe off list?
>
> The point is, you can't pigeonhole any genre as desirable or
> not-desirable...
>
Preach it, RevPeg
Pat-who is desparately trying to tie this into skating, but this warm
weather is making her mind foggy
Lori Coulson
PegLewis (pegl...@aol.com) wrote:
: Suddenly, I'm envisioning Michelle skating to Elton John's "Tickin'" - and
: that would be very angry skating, indeed.
: What is the antithesis of angry skating, and who exemplifies it? Anyone?
Peggy Fleming (also Janet Lynn and Dorothy Hamill).
Lori Coulson
--
*****************************************************
...Or do you still wait for me, Dream Giver...
Just around the riverbend? Pocahontas
*****************************************************
NLGHAtc
>Suddenly, I'm envisioning Michelle skating to Elton John's "Tickin'" -
and
>that would be very angry skating, indeed
One question for you dario. Why does it seem that most of the music you
mentioned with attiude come from the rap/hip-hop genre. I mean when we
are talking bitter what about Alanis Morisette? (Can't you picture Oskana
Gitschuk doing something to "You Oughta Know"...) Or for that matter
quite a few selections from "West Side Story?"
JustinPop
I found this of AOL's news search. There was no copyright, so I'm posting
it here. I don't know if someone beat me to it, but here it is...
--
LOS ANGELES, June 13 /PRNewswire/ -- Scott Hamilton, 1984 Olympic Gold
medalist, four-time U.S. National Champion and four-time World Champion,
has made marked improvement in his battle with testicular cancer, it was
announced today by oncologist Ronald M. Bukowski, M.D. of The Cleveland
Clinic Foundation in Cleveland, Ohio.
The 38 year old figure skating star, who was diagnosed with testicular
cancer at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation March 18, 1997 while headlining
a 60 city U.S. national tour of "Discover Stars On Ice," had been
suffering from severe stomach pains for several weeks prior.
Test results most recently disclosed to Hamilton by Bukowski, have
confirmed that tumors originally found in Hamilton's lower abdomen caused
by germ cancer cells within the testicle region, have been dramatically
arrested as a result of four completed cycles of chemotherapy during the
last two and a half months.
"Mr. Hamilton is doing very well," says Bukowski. "He has tolerated the
treatment without any serious side effects and is expected to undergo
surgery within the next two to four weeks. The prognosis for complete
recovery remains excellent."
Since the announcement of his cancer on March 19, 1997, the Olympic
Champion has been the recipient of well wishes from around the world;
specifically over 55,000 cards and letters and gifts have been received to
date.
"I'm overwhelmed by the genuine kindness and support," says Hamilton. "In
the past, I've met many people with challenges similar to mine. I've
always tried to understand how they were feeling. Now I know. We owe it
to ourselves to understand the disease and how to prevent it. It should
be a top priority. Cancer isn't something that just happens to other
people, it can happen to anyone. But, it is something that can be
overcome."
"So, I look at this episode in my life as just that," he went on to say.
"Another episode, and nothing more. We're all capable of rising above any
obstacle. Gratefully, I have no fear and I'm absolutely positive I'll get
through this. Now, if I can just come out of it with a full head of hair,
and, maybe, a foot taller, I'll be really grateful."
The Cleveland Clinic Foundation is a non-profit academic medical center
ranked since 1990 by the U.S. News & World Report among the top 10
hospitals in the country with its urology program ranked as 3rd in the
U.S. by the latest U.S. News & World Report listing. It also serves more
than 3,500 new patients annually, as well as 10,000 ongoing cancer
patients.
Hamilton is expected to resume skating by September. Plans include
headlining his 12th year of Discover Stars on Ice during its 1997/1998
season.
--
-Justin
(Just...@aol.com) Formerly pop1...@aol.com
Revjoelle
Scott Hamilton:
"Gratefully, I have no fear and I'm absolutely positive I'll get
through this. Now, if I can just come out of it with a full head of hair,
and, maybe, a foot taller, I'll be really grateful."
How can you not love this guy? :-)
Joelle
"I feel 100% confident that I can overcome this disease and be
back on the ice within a few months" - Scott Hamilton
Dario
One question for you dario. Why does it seem that most of the music you
mentioned with attiude come from the rap/hip-hop genre. I mean when we
are talking bitter what about Alanis Morisette? (Can't you picture Oskana
Gitschuk doing something to "You Oughta Know"...) Or for that matter
quite a few selections from "West Side Story?"
I never mentioned hip hop. I said Hip hop soul. which is not rap. and you
must be american if you think alanis has attitude. she is the ex debbie
gibson of canada.
dario
Blain Nelson
Revjoelle wrote:
>
> Scott Hamilton:
>
> "Gratefully, I have no fear and I'm absolutely positive I'll get
> through this. Now, if I can just come out of it with a full head of hair,
> and, maybe, a foot taller, I'll be really grateful."
>
Put a full head of hair on him, make him a foot taller, and we'd never
recognize him.
> How can you not love this guy? :-)
Beats me. Maybe it'd help to have a completely defective sence of
humor.
>
> Joelle
Thanks for the update -- I'd heard a lot of nothing and was wondering.
Take care,
Blain
--
----------------------------Blain Nelson------------------------------
http://www.pacificrim.net/~blainn/abuse
bla...@pacificrim.net anon-...@anon.twwells.com
--------------------------Refuse to Abuse-----------------------------
Revjoelle
There's a page about Scott at ASW:
http://www.americansk8world.com/news.html#SCOTT
Nothing new on his health...but it cites a reliable source who has seen
Scott on the ice in Denver with -- Get This-- A SHAVED HEAD.
Guess that answers it for some of us who were speculating what would
happen to the precious little hair he had. I'm thinking the image of
Scott totally bald is not an unpleasant one...:-)
JustinPop
In article <19970613160...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
just...@aol.com (JustinPop) writes:
>I found this of AOL's news search. There was no copyright, so I'm posting
>it here. I don't know if someone beat me to it, but here it is...
Whoops! This was copyrighted! I have already cancelled the post, so it
should be gone within a few days--so don't turn me in for copyright
infrigment!!! :)
Basically the article said that Scott would resume skating by September,
and over 55,000 get well messages have been recieved by him! The cancer is
almost all gone now.
Now, I can breathe a sigh of relief <sigh>,
-Justin
(Just...@aol.com) Formerly pop1...@aol.com
HILL JANET SWAN
>One question for you dario. Why does it seem that most of the music you
>mentioned with attiude come from the rap/hip-hop genre. I mean when we
>are talking bitter what about Alanis Morisette? (Can't you picture Oskana
>Gitschuk doing something to "You Oughta Know"...)
This is my dream. (not Grischuk, but *someone* .....the thing is that
it's GREAT to skate to, but can you imagine the response? (unless of
course, the PA system made the lyrics just muddy enough so that those who
do't know them can't understand them.
janet
whose typing may be strange for a while. i sprained my wrist rather badly
today skating. at least it's not broken ... we think
DIce
Revjoelle wrote:
> Scott Hamilton:
>
> "Gratefully, I have no fear and I'm absolutely positive I'll get
> through this. Now, if I can just come out of it with a full head of
> hair,
> and, maybe, a foot taller, I'll be really grateful."
>
> How can you not love this guy? :-)
>
> Joelle
>
> "I feel 100% confident that I can overcome this disease and be
> back on the ice within a few months" - Scott Hamilton
But if he DOES grow the hair and the height, would he still be the
Scotty we all know and love?!?!?! Just kidding............
DIce
--------------31F49BB604C6A66FB0834B99
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Revjoelle wrote:
> There's a page about Scott at ASW:
> http://www.americansk8world.com/news.html#SCOTT
>
> Nothing new on his health...but it cites a reliable source who has
> seen
> Scott on the ice in Denver with -- Get This-- A SHAVED HEAD.
>
> Guess that answers it for some of us who were speculating what would
> happen to the precious little hair he had. I'm thinking the image of
> Scott totally bald is not an unpleasant one...:-)
>
> Joelle
> "I feel 100% confident that I can overcome this disease and be
> back on the ice within a few months" - Scott Hamilton
I noticed there was also a blurb (on the same page) about Chen Lu
training in Oakland with Christy Ness. Seems to me a few posters were
speculating about Lu's future a few months ago, and some had heard
rumors about Lu training with Ness. This figures, since Lu has
reportedly said that she admired Kristi Yamaguchi.
--------------31F49BB604C6A66FB0834B99
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<HTML>
Revjoelle wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>There's a page about Scott at ASW:
<BR><A HREF="http://www.americansk8world.com/news.html#SCOTT">http://www.americansk8world.com/news.html#SCOTT</A>
<P>Nothing new on his health...but it cites a reliable source who has seen
<BR>Scott on the ice in Denver with -- Get This-- A SHAVED HEAD.
<P>Guess that answers it for some of us who were speculating what would
<BR>happen to the precious little hair he had. I'm thinking the image
of
<BR>Scott totally bald is not an unpleasant one...:-)
<P>Joelle
<BR>"I feel 100% confident that I can overcome this disease and be
<BR>back on the ice within a few months" - Scott Hamilton</BLOCKQUOTE>
I noticed there was also a blurb (on the same page) about Chen Lu training
in Oakland with Christy Ness. Seems to me a few posters were speculating
about Lu's future a few months ago, and some had heard rumors about Lu
training with Ness. This figures, since Lu has reportedly said that
she admired Kristi Yamaguchi.</HTML>
--------------31F49BB604C6A66FB0834B99--
Revjoelle
In article <19970613224...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
just...@aol.com (JustinPop) writes:
>Whoops! This was copyrighted! I have already cancelled the post, so it
>should be gone within a few days--so don't turn me in for copyright
>infrigment!!! :)
I didn't know you could cancel a post...how'd ya do that?
>
>Basically the article said that Scott would resume skating by September,
>and over 55,000 get well messages have been recieved by him! The cancer
is
>almost all gone now.
He is having surgery however, but they didn't go into detail if he was
just having his testical removed or if he would need abnominal surgery as
well.
Again I just have to commend Scott for he absolutely incredible positive,
upbeat attitude about this. I cannot believe how well he is handling
this and my admiration for this man, which as ya all now was considerable
high to begin with, has gone up several notches.
JustinPop
revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) writes:
>I didn't know you could cancel a post...how'd ya do that?
Well, Joelle, after frantic searching through AOL's member service's help,
I found out how. This only works for AOL members only (aren't we lucky?
:-]). Find the message id. Which looks something like this....
<19970614010...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Send that in the subject and the body to "NewsMaster". And poof! Your post
is cancelled. Pretty nifty, if you ask me. With my luck, Reuter's will be
at my door tomorrow suing me for thousands.
<Again I just have to commend Scott for he absolutely incredible positive,
<upbeat attitude about this. I cannot believe how well he is handling
<this and my admiration for this man, which as ya all now was considerable
<high to begin with, has gone up several notches.
I agree completely. He could be down and out, complaining and whining. But
no, he is upbeat and positive, which is something I know I couldn't do!
-Justin
(Just...@aol.com) Formerly pop1...@aol.com
PegLewis
In article <19970611174...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
not...@aol.com (Notdeby) writes:
>P.S. Was "La Valse" actually composed 'for' the stage? I hadn't
>realized that.
>
>
Ravel wrote La Valse on an ocean liner, returning from the US to France,
as a commissioned work for a specific ballet & choreographer (both names
elude me right now).
I often think how times have changed - no time to write a ballet on a
transatlantic airline flight - although Todd Eldredge did decide to drop
Chess as his long program in '96 on such a flight, if I remember the story
correctly.
Chuck Newman
Blain Nelson (bla...@pacificrim.net) wrote:
: Revjoelle wrote:
: >
: > Scott Hamilton:
: >
: > "Gratefully, I have no fear and I'm absolutely positive I'll get
: > through this. Now, if I can just come out of it with a full head of hair,
: > and, maybe, a foot taller, I'll be really grateful."
: Put a full head of hair on him, make him a foot taller, and we'd never
: recognize him.
: > How can you not love this guy? :-)
: Beats me. Maybe it'd help to have a completely defective sence of
: humor.
: >
: > Joelle
: Thanks for the update -- I'd heard a lot of nothing and was wondering.
: Take care,
: Blain
: --
: ----------------------------Blain Nelson------------------------------
: http://www.pacificrim.net/~blainn/abuse
: bla...@pacificrim.net anon-...@anon.twwells.com
: --------------------------Refuse to Abuse-----------------------------
One station pushed a weong button and queued up a report on Scott, instead
of something else they wanted, and that report said that he is doing well.
Margaret Burwell
"Dario" (gran...@followme.com) writes:
> I never mentioned hip hop. I said Hip hop soul. which is not rap. and you
> must be american if you think alanis has attitude. she is the ex debbie
> gibson of canada.
>
>
> dario
Alanis went through her squeaky clean stage when she was much
younger. I would hate to think that *anyone* would be forced to remain
throughout their life the way they were at age 14 or 15. Give her a
break. Alanis has grown up just as everyone does.
Ob skating.. Michelle is not the same skaer she was two or three
years ago and Tara will mature as well.
Marg
Revjoelle
So I noticed Blades on Ice copied the press release word for word. I'm
just curious...how come they can do that and we can't?
DellaG
>So I noticed Blades on Ice copied the press release word for word. I'm
>just curious...how come they can do that and we can't?
Joelle:
They can, if they get permission to do so. If you get permission from AP,
or PR, or whomever, you can quote word for word also.
Della
Louis Epstein
DellaG (del...@aol.com) wrote:
: >So I noticed Blades on Ice copied the press release word for word. I'm
Isn't PR stuff generally *meant* for redistribution?
PegL...@aol.com
From: pegl...@aol.com
Newsgroups:
"Ÿ"ƒÉÎ+
" ,GR
Subject: Re: Scott Hamilton UPDATE
References: <EBuGy...@nonexistent.com>
In article <EBuGy...@nonexistent.com>, l...@put.com (Louis Epstein)
writes:
Not word for word if it is copyrighted. Really, getting permission to
distribute an article isn't as difficult as I thought it would be,
especially if you dot your eyes and cross your tees and promise to include
correct attribution & disclaimers, etc. Of course, one could provide a
link from a webpage to a copyrighted article... or does that take
permission, too. (Can't tell I haven't dabbled in web pages yet, can you?)
Peg
(PegL...@aol.com)
===========
"Always in motion is the future." - Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back.
===========
"What has become of Michelle Kwan's kwan? ...[After]victory in nine
consecutive competitions, the 16-year-old seemed to have achieved kwan,
the Jerry Maguire neologism describing a combination of inner strength and
public adulation. '...Right now it's Michelle's battle against Michelle,'
says Kwan's coach, Frank Carroll, of his charge's flagging
self-confidence." - John Walters, SI View: The week in TV sports (SIonline
highlights) for Saturday 3/22/97.
===========
"You go, girl!" - anonymous fan, shouting to Elena Bechke in mid-lift
during competition at Landover, Autumn, 1996
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Revjoelle
In article <199706161357...@babyblue.cs.yale.edu>,
<PegL...@aol.com> writes:
> Of course, one could provide a
>link from a webpage to a copyrighted article... or does that take
>permission, too. (Can't tell I haven't dabbled in web pages yet, can
you?)
>
They say it's polite to ask someone if you can put their link on your
page...but I would think a site like Blades on Ice would appreciate a
link..I don't ask permission from those kinds of sites...people usually
ask ME to put a link of their site on my page...
Anyways...I didn't copy the release word for word, but I did quote from
it, summarized what it said, said where I got the info and provided a link
to BOI which has the entire thing and if that's not right...well too
bad...
Tzigaane
Subject: Copying Press Releases..( a was Re: Scott Hamilton UPDATE
From: (Revjoelle)
Date: 16 Jun 1997 18:28:26 GMT
Message-ID:
In article <19970616182...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
revj...@aol.com writes:
>They say it's polite to ask someone if you can put their link on your
>page...but I would think a site like Blades on Ice would appreciate a
>link..
snip
>Anyways...I didn't copy the release word for word, but I did quote from
>it, summarized what it said, said where I got the info and provided a
link
>to BOI which has the entire thing
>***and if that's not right...well too bad...***
That's probably what Microsoft said just before Ticketmaster filed suit!
<g> While I agree with you (I can't imagine why any company would mind
other web pages providing links to their site), apparently it's not
something that is met with universal delight. Caution and seeking
permission is probably prudent.
And regarding press releases being available for anyone's use - that is
true as long as you're talking about the original press release from the
original source (agent or management co. in this case I suppose).
However, once Associated Press (or anyone else) has written it up in their
own words, *that* particular version is protected by copyright and may not
be used without permission. A person could write up their own version
based on the original p.r. and be just fine.
Louis Epstein
Revjoelle (revj...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <199706161357...@babyblue.cs.yale.edu>,
: <PegL...@aol.com> writes:
:
: > Of course, one could provide a
: >link from a webpage to a copyrighted article... or does that take
: >permission, too. (Can't tell I haven't dabbled in web pages yet, can
: you?)
: They say it's polite to ask someone if you can put their link on your
: page...but I would think a site like Blades on Ice would appreciate a
: ask ME to put a link of their site on my page...
The odd thing about the Blades site is that they have *NO* links to
any other sites on the Web!It's as if they wanted readers to think they
were the whole of the Web when it came to skating...a rather misleading
and annoying conceit.
Ellen B. Edgerton
PegL...@aol.com (PegL...@aol.com) sez:
: >
: >Isn't PR stuff generally *meant* for redistribution?
: Not word for word if it is copyrighted.
I work in PR and I've never heard of someone copyrighting a press release!
Interesting...
aef
On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Mary E Tyler wrote:
> Valerie wrote:
> >
> > In article <19970609155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> > Wandarama <wand...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >I guess it would be safe to ask this quistion under this thread. . .
> > >
> > >Why don't we see some of the skaters doing heavy metal (like Stojko's Van
> > >Halen number back in '94)?
> > >
> >
> > I'm sure Jumpin' Joe would be glad to oblige.... ;-)
> >
> > But really, folks, don't you think this was just a trolling mission? A
> > very successful one, I'd say, with a great deal of amusement value. I
> > mean, just try to picture Dorothy Hamill skating to "Shoop" by
> > Salt'n'Peppa (I think) or "Bring Me Some Water" by Melissa Etheridge!
> > You'll see Elvis skate to "Memories" before THAT happens! ;-) And no,
> > that's not a slam at either of them or at Dario.
> >
> > Val
>
> i believe that a skatewr used melissa ethridge "i'm the only one" last
> season on the pro circuit, was it katerina witt? micheal (ak not chack,
> the other one) uses HM in one of his exhibitions, i forget which.
> certainly joe slobobchieck (sp?) counts with his love of MeatLoaf
>
> dejah
>
>
>
Oh, but Katerine surely doesn't count. Yes, she skated to Melissa
Etheridge but I was always offended that her skating never came close to
what the song is about. She could have used that choreography to anything.
She should have had Joe Slabovcek (sp?) choreograph it for her.
Anne
Trudi Marrapodi
In article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.97061...@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>, aef
<afr...@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> wrote:
[snip]
> > i believe that a skatewr used melissa ethridge "i'm the only one" last
> > season on the pro circuit, was it katerina witt? micheal (ak not chack,
> > the other one) uses HM in one of his exhibitions, i forget which.
> > certainly joe slobobchieck (sp?) counts with his love of MeatLoaf
> >
> > dejah
> >
> >
> >
> Oh, but Katerine surely doesn't count. Yes, she skated to Melissa
> Etheridge but I was always offended that her skating never came close to
> what the song is about. She could have used that choreography to anything.
> She should have had Joe Slabovcek (sp?) choreograph it for her.
>
> Anne
OK, let's see...the song is about two lesbians, and one of them has gone
off with some other woman, and the other one is mad...and she says nobody
else is more devoted a lover than she is and her lover has only cut out
because she doesn't want to confront her own inner problems...exactly how
would you have Katarina interpret that on the ice?
Trudi
www...@getridodispart.frontiernet.net
To mail me, get rid 'o "getridodispart."...
"Some men think strong opinions are a sign of PMS..."--TV commercial
"...and if you don't believe it, you can ring my doorbell and smell my toilet." --another TV commercial
Notdeby
In article <19970614161...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
pegl...@aol.com (PegLewis) writes:
>In article <19970611174...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>not...@aol.com (Notdeby) writes:
>
>>P.S. Was "La Valse" actually composed 'for' the stage? I hadn't
>>realized that.
>>
>Ravel wrote La Valse on an ocean liner, returning from the US to France,
>as a commissioned work for a specific ballet & choreographer (both names
>elude me right now).
Wow! Learn something new...Here I thought it was written for orchestral
presentation and enlisted for use in ballet, as so many are. I should go
look this up.
>I often think how times have changed - no time to write a ballet on a
>transatlantic airline flight - although Todd Eldredge did decide to drop
>Chess as his long program in '96 on such a flight, if I remember the
story
>correctly.
Cute ").
NotDeby
"What a luxury it is to be alive, and female, and in a liquid state because of such male beauty." - Various.
"(My mind is) like a high-speed computer. But it only doodles."
- Rosie O'Donnell
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sk8Maven
Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
[re: Katarina skating to Melissa Etheridge's "I'm the Only One"]
> OK, let's see...the song is about two lesbians, and one of them has
> gone off with some other woman, and the other one is mad...and she says
> nobody else is more devoted a lover than she is and her lover has only
> cut out because she doesn't want to confront her own inner problems...
> exactly how would you have Katarina interpret that on the ice?
If I remember the lyrics correctly, the only reason you know it's about
"two lesbians" is because you know about Melissa Etheridge being one. I
don't recall that the gender of the straying partner is ever mentioned,
and it doesn't really matter -- the dynamics are exactly the same
whether the errant partner is a man or a woman.
--
Bettina (sk8m...@bellsouth.net)
Please reply to *this* address ONLY if you aren't trying
to sell me something! :-)
ALL other addresses are intentionally bogus to block
incoming junk email.
Anyone who uses the above address to send me junk email
will be charged a $500.00 reading fee. You have been
warned.
Ellen B. Edgerton
Louis Epstein (l...@put.com) sez:
: The odd thing about the Blades site is that they have *NO* links to
: any other sites on the Web!It's as if they wanted readers to think they
: were the whole of the Web when it came to skating...a rather misleading
: and annoying conceit.
I really don't think that's their intention. There is no law saying you
have to have links to other places on the web, you know.
Mary E Tyler
aef wrote:
> >
> Oh, but Katerine surely doesn't count. Yes, she skated to Melissa
> Etheridge but I was always offended that her skating never came close to
> what the song is about. She could have used that choreography to anything.
> She should have had Joe Slabovcek (sp?) choreograph it for her.
>
> Anne
have you ever notice that joe does little footwork and very little that
could pass for choreography. it is a big weakness of his.
dejah
New Horizons
Have met Scott, and I wish him the best of luck, and hope to see him back
on the ice. He's a real asset to the skating world. What a cruel and
decetful world!
Revjoelle <revj...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970615172...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> So I noticed Blades on Ice copied the press release word for word. I'm
> just curious...how come they can do that and we can't?
>
Regina Pace
Mary E Tyler wrote:
> have you ever notice that joe does little footwork and very little that
> could pass for choreography. it is a big weakness of his.
Jozef indeed does very little footwork, but to say he does very little
that could pass for choreography is a tad unfair. No, his choreography
may not be in the same league of some of the other male pros, but it is
certainly there. Both of his main competitive programs of the last
pro season, "Heaven Can Wait" and the Sarajevo medley, have some very
nice choreography, IMO.
Whether or not a particular person believes a particular skater is
"artistic" or has good choreography is such a sticky area -- I even
hesitate to post this because so much of this is *opinion.* I'm only
responding because I think the original statement was painted with too
broad a brush.
Gina
Sochaxx
Dario...
And important thing to remember is that skating to music is representing
the
music itself and how it makes you feel. And a MORE important thing to
remember
is that a lot of judges where already judging when ABBA first appeared. I
really
don't feel it would contribute to your marks. Welcome to the political
side of competition.
As for the professional....Hm. I'd personally like to see someone skate
to
"DYER'S EVE" by Metallica. <grin>. I'm sure everyone would just love that.
But
truthfully, I think variation is good. I personally am tired of a lot of
female performers either doing the "Ms. Innocent Flower", "Ms. Leather N'
Bondage". or the "Ms. Skate to point A and Jump...Skate to point B, Jump,
Move arm....Skate to point C Spin".....
Of coarse, there are exceptions, but as a general, this appears to be
the case. I would like to see our women professionals become more
creative. Take Scotti for instance (NO, HE'S NOT A GIRL). He's skated to
"TRUTH IS MARCHING ON" all the way to "GIMME DOWN TO THERE HAIR!" etc. His
SHOWMANSHIP is unsurpassed. He is always a pleasure to watch. Even
Boitano's sword fighting thing years ago was intruiging. Bowman with
Caution wrapped around his head (remember that performance!!! WOW!).
Curtis S.
Revjoelle
soc...@aol.com (Sochaxx) writes:
> Take Scotti for instance (NO, HE'S NOT A GIRL). He's skated to
>"TRUTH IS MARCHING ON" all the way to "GIMME DOWN TO THERE HAIR!" etc.
>His SHOWMANSHIP is unsurpassed. He is always a pleasure to watch.
Welcome to the rssif Curt...I have a feeling you and I are going to get
along very well..:-)
Sochaxx
>Welcome to the rssif Curt...I have a feeling you and I are going to get
>along very well..:-)
>Joelle
Thanx......I was very suprised to see such a LARGE area dedicated to
skating. In
a way, it makes me sad cause I remember when skating wasn't quite so
popular,
and that was only like 7 or 8 years ago. Amazing world eh?
Does anybody know of an existing site of somewhere where us old show
bums
can talk about places weve been and so forth? I'm with disney and I
haven't seen
ANYTHING for us. Our shows didn't even get mention on an ice show site!
Ice Capades was mentioned, but no Disney. Hard to believe. We employ more
professional figure skaters than any company on the face of the earth and
we don't have a web site. Kenneth Feld should be zapped.
Curtis S.
Revjoelle
>I'm with disney and I
haven't seen ANYTHING for us. Our shows didn't even get mention on an ice
show site! Ice Capades was mentioned, but no Disney. Hard to believe. We
employ more professional figure skaters than any company on the face of
the earth and
we don't have a web site. Kenneth Feld should be zapped.
Blades on Ice had the schedule of Disney tours up...BTW do you ever get to
see Sarah Kawahara? She choreographs for Disney...
Louis Epstein
Ellen B. Edgerton (ebed...@newstand.syr.edu) wrote:
It's sort of like buying a car to live in instead of drive,though...
The Web is there for links.