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OT - RIP Ted Kennedy

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GHFAN

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Aug 26, 2009, 10:20:31 AM8/26/09
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In November 1963 I was an 18 year old Supply Assistant on HMNZS (Her
Majesty's New Zealand Ship) Taranaki. We were berthed in Pearl Harbor,
Hawaii when an announcement came over the ships loudspeaker saying
President Kennedy had been assassinated. The ships company was in
shock and not quite sure what to do. The Taranaki was a guest of the
USN and we were in Pearl Harbor working with them on various exercises
prior to go on station in the Far East as part of SEATO (it no longer
exists). In no time at all the sky was full of jets patrolling the
harbor as ships got up steam to get to sea. Pearl Harbor is shaped
like a keyhole and if ships get caught in the keyhole they're sitting
ducks (ask the Japanese)

We eventually made our way out into the Pacific and our job as an anti
submarine frigate was to patrol the seas around the Hawaiian Islands.
It was the height of the Cold War and during previous exercises our
sonar had "pinged" on Russian submarines who regularly tested the
capabilities of the ships of SEATO. It was all a game until that day.
All anyone knew was that the President had been murdered and we went
into the highest level of alert. My action station was in the magazine
where I stood by to load shells into the forward 4.5" gun. I was
dressed in anti-flash gear for hours as we waited to find out what had
happened. Some hours later when the authorities knew it was an
assassination and not an all out war we were stood down and Taranaki
steamed back into Pearl Harbor. As we steamed in our Captain came on
the ships loudspeaker suggesting that anyone going ashore should keep
a low profile and show respect and sympathy towards our fellow sailors
of the USN. I didn't go ashore that day but did a few days later. I
went with a group of about half a dozen young guys and we made an
effort to keep our heads down and out of trouble. We were all 17, 18,
19, 20 years old and non of us politically motivated. We were more
interested in getting laid than who our leaders were. I guess it was a
sign of the times how our parents had bought us up to show respect to
our leaders (Hell, we even stood up prior to watching a movie as they
played God Save the Queen) and being in the Navy showing respect to
any person in authority was a given.

Once ashore our group wandered about and eventually found an bar close
to Fort Derussey. What attracted us to this particular bar was the
sound of some sort of celebration. There must have been a dozen US
military guys cheering, chanting and generally whooping it up. We were
surprised at how happy they were and one of our group asked what the
celebration was about. We were told in no uncertain terms that the
celebration was the death of President Kennedy. We didn't understand
it. It was all so foreign and undignified. Here was this young
President generally loved throughout the world and he'd been murdered.
How strange that people should celebrate. We then learned that the
basis of the celebration was "He got what he deserved as nobody fucks
with the South. We don't need equal rights. Save your Dixie Cups, the
South will rise again blah blah blah". Oh boy, had we led sheltered
lives. We were so green. We didn't stay at the bar long as it just
didn't "feel" right. It was an introduction to a certain type of
racism that still haunts me.

Later on this same trip we were stationed in Hong Kong and enjoyed the
company of many US military guys on leave from Vietnam. We became
quite friendly with a group of US Marines on R & R who had bought
their wives out from the States. We had had a great old time racing
Rickshaw's and bringing them along to rugby games at the Happy Valley
racecourse grounds. We told them about our experience in Hawaii and
the Marines were as ashamed as we were. They explained how certain
southern states were struggling with equal rights, how many whites
felt threatened and Kennedy was so hated in parts of the south. We
didn't harp on it but did talk about it amongst ourselves.

So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
However, they were genuinely concerned citizens. Racism is still
amongst us and when I hear and see the angry people on TV I fear for
President Obama. God have mercy on us.

BrritSki

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Aug 26, 2009, 10:28:38 AM8/26/09
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GHFAN wrote:

<snip>


>
> So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
> However, they were genuinely concerned citizens. Racism is still
> amongst us and when I hear and see the angry people on TV I fear for
> President Obama. God have mercy on us.

Well said.

meat n 2 veg

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Aug 26, 2009, 10:47:04 AM8/26/09
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On Aug 26, 4:28 pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
> GHFAN wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> > Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> > Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident

Uncle Dave

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Aug 26, 2009, 12:19:53 PM8/26/09
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Have to say that Mary Jo Kopechne has haunted him ever since.
Whatever else you can say about the guy, he was a complete and utter
arsehole that night and got off scot free thanks, no doubt, to his old
man's connections. He tried hard to make up for it during his career
but I don't think you can ever cancel that particular sin out...

UD

JollyRoger

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Aug 26, 2009, 1:08:12 PM8/26/09
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Excellent story, m8. Reading this reminded me why I still frequent
this newsgroup, for the odd diamond in the rough.

Racism here in the states is unfortunately still alive and well,
despite the best intentions of a whole generation. I have never been
able to understand it really. As a South African I knew why my
countrymen (and myself) were racist. It was because they were really
scared. It had very little do with hatred. The flavor of racism here
in the States is the scariest I have ever encountered in my life,
because there is no rational behind it and it seemed to be fueled
entirely by hatred.

You are right that we should fear for the life of Obama, especially
now. That fear should however be centered around the preservation of
his life, and not for what he stands for. I believe the ideals that
he aspires to, all of us (OK most) aspire to. That is why he got
elected. Hope lives on, despite the passing of leaders.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Jolly

Two Dogs

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Aug 26, 2009, 2:21:07 PM8/26/09
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>
> So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
> However, they were genuinely concerned citizens. Racism is still
> amongst us and when I hear and see the angry people on TV I fear for
> President Obama. God have mercy on us.

I feel the same way. Although, of course, the talking (shreiking)
heads would say it has nothing to do with race, it's about politics,
but the feeling is the same to me...shrill, twisted logics and
"facts", and an underlying call to arms to protect "America as we know
it" that has a dark, ugly underbelly to it.


The fools don't realise that it's THEM who are threatening the
American ideals..


Dave

Two Dogs

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Aug 26, 2009, 2:35:00 PM8/26/09
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If life was a scoreboard you may have a point, but it's not really,
is it? It's a series of ups and downs, successes and fuckups.

Ted Kennedy was a great American, Chappaquiddick or no
Chapawhatever. If you look at the causes he championed, the type of
legislation he wrote and promoted, and the influence he had on the US
Senate you would see that for yourself. There is not a piece of
Health, Labor, or Social legislation in the last 47 years that
doesan't have his fingerprints all over it. He's probably the most
influential person never to have been President in the history of the
United States, and he used that influence for the betterment of his
fellow human beings.

I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
and what he achieved is foolish

Two Dogs

meat n 2 veg

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Aug 26, 2009, 3:08:46 PM8/26/09
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I'm sure her parents felt the same....

William Clark

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Aug 26, 2009, 3:51:55 PM8/26/09
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In article
<a8fba7fa-5102-4a40...@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
JollyRoger <hcst...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I agree. The current tidal wave of venom that is being unleashed in the
health care town hall meetings has, in my view, much less to do with the
government offering universal health care (which the general population
favours by a more than 2 to 1 margin) than it does with the sheer hatred
of Obama as a black, liberal Democrat, President. They simply cannot
tolerate the very idea. Given the race baiting that Limbaugh, Beck,
Hannity and others are leading, it can only be a matter of time before
some deranged redneck takes a shot at Obama. When he does, these
blowhards will, of course, proclaim that it has nothing to do with them,
when in reality it has everything to do with the atmosphere they have
provoked since day one.

We can only hope that the sanity of the (vast) majority will overcome
the hatred of the wingnuts, as it did last November, and that Kennedy's
vision of public service lives on.

William Clark

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Aug 26, 2009, 3:52:23 PM8/26/09
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William Clark

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Aug 26, 2009, 3:52:59 PM8/26/09
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In article
<ad9841c3-4cf4-40a9...@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,

meat n 2 veg <michael...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Aug 26, 8:35�pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 26, 12:19�pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 26, 3:47�pm, meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > On Aug 26, 4:28�pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > GHFAN wrote:
> >
> > > > > <snip>
> >
> > > > > > So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> > > > > > Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> > > > > > Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
> >

> > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick incident


> >
> > > Have to say that Mary Jo Kopechne has haunted him ever since.
> > > Whatever else you can say about the guy, he was a complete and utter
> > > arsehole that night and got off scot free thanks, no doubt, to his old
> > > man's connections. �He tried hard to make up for it during his career
> > > but I don't think you can ever cancel that particular sin out...
> >
> > > UD
> >
> > � If life was a scoreboard you may have a point, but it's not really,
> > is it? It's a series of ups and downs, successes and fuckups.
> >
> > � Ted Kennedy was a great American, Chappaquiddick or no
> > Chapawhatever. If you look at the causes he championed, the type of
> > legislation he wrote and promoted, and the influence he had on the US
> > Senate you would see that for yourself. There is not a piece of
> > Health, Labor, or Social legislation in the last 47 years that
> > doesan't have his fingerprints all over it. He's probably the most
> > influential person never to have been President in the history of the
> > United States, and he used that influence for the betterment of his
> > fellow human beings.
> >
> > � �I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
> > and what he achieved is foolish
> >
> > Two Dogs
>
> I'm sure her parents felt the same....

Piss off, jerk.

Uncle Dave

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Aug 26, 2009, 4:38:51 PM8/26/09
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On Aug 26, 7:35 pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>


>
>    I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
> and what he achieved is foolish

Well, that depends. I remember the incident and hoo-hah surrounding
it very well as I was going through my "informed young person period"
and took Newsweek, Time and read newspapers too! The view from
America on current affairs is always interesting, and is always
perverse. Much ranting about the freeing of a likely innocent man to
die and much weeping over the death of a likely guilty man. Yes, he
did a lot of good stuff and I believe in forgiving and forgetting but
his actions with regard to the Chappaquiddick incident were those of
just another slimy politician and you know how much I like those ;-)

UD

Brad Anton

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Aug 26, 2009, 4:59:24 PM8/26/09
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"William Clark" <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news:clark-D7D529....@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...

Why the hostility William? Do you not believe this happened?
Brad


William Clark

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Aug 26, 2009, 5:38:11 PM8/26/09
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In article <h747nf$1q4$1...@aioe.org>,
"Brad Anton" <ant_o...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not at all, but this is all this cretin has to offer. Make a case, by
asll means, but this cheap shot crap is for morons.

He is like the "protesters" at the town hall meetings on health care -
only interested in seeing who can shout the loudest.

Calvin

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Aug 26, 2009, 5:59:04 PM8/26/09
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On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:20:31 +1000, GHFAN <geoffa...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

I never realised he played rugby.

--

cheers,
calvin

Two Dogs

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:09:02 PM8/26/09
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You are just a dickhead, Micheal. What a shame....

Two Dogs

Two Dogs

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:10:54 PM8/26/09
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On Aug 26, 5:59 pm, Calvin <cal...@phlegm.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:20:31 +1000, GHFAN <geoffandr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> I never realised he played rugby.
>
> --
>
> cheers,
> calvin

Sorry, perhaps Mummy can explain what OT means for you...

Two Dogs

dechucka

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:10:40 PM8/26/09
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"Calvin" <cal...@phlegm.com> wrote in message
news:op.uzah0...@1ls2-2c084.staff.ad.bond.edu.au...

> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:20:31 +1000, GHFAN <geoffa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> I never realised he played rugby.

He played football at Harvard but it wasn't rugby hence the OT

dechucka

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:12:16 PM8/26/09
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"GHFAN" <geoffa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:af099e72-8318-436e...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...

Well said.

Travelling in the South of the USA there seems to be this underlying
resentment still to the North ( and everybody dislikes California ) which I
felt uncomfortable with and couldn't really understand.

Two Dogs

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:15:52 PM8/26/09
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It was a horrible incident, Dave, thats for sure, it bothered me as
well, even if I'm much younger than you !!!

But redemption is possible for everyone, and if you look at this
guys record he was an outstanding human being for most of his life.
I've heard some anecdotes from people that knew him and he really did
believe and live public service like no one else I can think of. All
sinners should try to redeem themselves like he did, the world would
be a much better place.

Two Dogs

Ziggy

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:23:42 PM8/26/09
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"Two Dogs" <blewd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:361c9dbb-7bba-4328...@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...

>It was a horrible incident, Dave, thats for sure, it bothered me as
>well, even if I'm much younger than you !!!

>But redemption is possible for everyone, and if you look at this
>guys record he was an outstanding human being for most of his life.
>I've heard some anecdotes from people that knew him and he really did
>believe and live public service like no one else I can think of. All
>sinners should try to redeem themselves like he did, the world would
>be a much better place.

Don't get too carried away! He was, like all of us, a person of many parts.
His personal realtionships were littered with unforgiveable, selfish acts.
Chappaquiddick was the most extreme. But he certainly did contribute in the
Senate and his record is outstanding. On balance he gave more for the good
of his country than most.


Charles

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:33:15 PM8/26/09
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His 'romantic' enthusiasm for the IRA in its heyday (prior to 9/11),
didn't exactly endear him to those involved in the 'troubles', and
from his privileged background, his left-wing liberal policies did not
exactly appeal to Republicans or Conservatives.

He was a professional politician, that's all he knew and that's all he
did. That is a breed which is not necessarily dedicated selflessly to
their electorate, and a powerful 'Maltese breast-stroke' is the
favoured propulsion through life for most of them.

Two Dogs

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:38:11 PM8/26/09
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On Aug 26, 6:23 pm, "Ziggy" <larry1...@swiftdsl.com.au> wrote:
> "Two Dogs" <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote in message

It's not getting carried away to say that if there were more like
him the world would be a better place.

As I said, I wasn't a huge fan of the guy, like Uncle Dave
Chappawhatsit coloured my view of him for a long time. But I live and
work in Washington DC, and I've seen his work and have come to respect
him greatly for it.

Two Dogs

dechucka

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Aug 26, 2009, 6:39:08 PM8/26/09
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"Charles" <j...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tedb951kdsa6fnkte...@4ax.com...

I'm sure that many peoples support for the British Goverments role in N
Ireland didn't exactly endear them to some involved in the "troubles".

snip

William Clark

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Aug 26, 2009, 8:13:41 PM8/26/09
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In article <tedb951kdsa6fnkte...@4ax.com>,
Charles <j...@msn.com> wrote:

No, he was not a "professional" politician. He was actually one of the
last of the breed of the wealthy patricians who enter politics through a
sense of the obligations to public service that wealth and privilege
bring. Very much the old British upper class ideal. He was not
"professional" - he didn't need the money. One can argue about the
rights and wrongs of this type of public service, but you can also
contrast it with the self serving socioeconomic climbers that infest
modern politics, and spend more time trying to figure out ways to line
their own pockets, rather than further the interests of the public.

Klitty

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Aug 26, 2009, 8:33:38 PM8/26/09
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"dechucka" <vo...@hotmail.com> writes:

You mean sending Soldiers in to protect catholics from protestants? NI
was a problem no one wanted - least of all the UK Government. The
republic certainly doesn't want NI back either.

dechucka

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Aug 26, 2009, 8:42:37 PM8/26/09
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"Klitty" <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h74k93$fq6$1...@klitty.eternal-september.org...

I'm saying that the IRA also had its supporters. Remember one mans freedom
fighter is another mans terrorist. No comment either way on the "troubles"
except to say that there was/is right and wrong on both sides.

Stex

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Aug 26, 2009, 9:27:19 PM8/26/09
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On Aug 27, 10:10 am, "dechucka" <vo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Calvin" <cal...@phlegm.com> wrote in message
>
> news:op.uzah0...@1ls2-2c084.staff.ad.bond.edu.au...
>
> > On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:20:31 +1000, GHFAN <geoffandr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> > I never realised he played rugby.
>
> He played football at Harvard but it wasn't rugby hence the OT

Are you sure?

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=269028

Stex

Two Dogs

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Aug 26, 2009, 9:36:01 PM8/26/09
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I hate the typical slimy Pol as much as the next man but Ted was a
different fish. The entire Kennedy Clan had a sense of service that is
an anachronism in today's political rat race. It might have been that
old Joe made so much money bootlegging that the boys had nothing else
to do but go into public service for service's sake. Whatever it was
that created their sense of democratic social responsibility was a
good thing. It is unlikely to be seen again any time soon.

Oh, and I hate to tell you but not everyone in the world thinks
Britain did a nice job with Ireland. It's quite in line with his other
views on social and political injustice.

Two Dogs

dechucka

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Aug 26, 2009, 9:43:23 PM8/26/09
to

"Stex" <stex...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d32cae1-c97f-4818...@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Are you sure?

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=269028

======================================
I am wrong, thanks for the info. I only knew that he played Gridiron.

Bit of research Harvard Rugby Club Est. 1872 and is the oldest Rugby Club in
the US. Here is a picture Of Edward Kennedy with the Harvard team 1954
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset+Tree/Asset+Viewers/Image+Asset+Viewer.htm?guid=%7B4F950473-7565-4E9F-AABA-20DD94BC4DC2%7D&type=Image

BrentC

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Aug 26, 2009, 11:01:12 PM8/26/09
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On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Two Dogs
<blewd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Oh, and I hate to tell you but not everyone in the world thinks
>Britain did a nice job with Ireland. It's quite in line with his other
>views on social and political injustice.
>
> Two Dogs


he needed water boarding for supporting a terrorist organization

BrentC

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Aug 26, 2009, 11:33:21 PM8/26/09
to
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:20:31 -0700 (PDT), GHFAN
<geoffa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Glad I'm not a Kennedy

Living on through politics
Body-guarded, heart in bits
A blue-eyed honesty
Indigo injury
The family tree is felled
Bereavement worn so well
Giving up on certainty
Wilderness society

Wearing the fame like a loaded gun
Tied up with a rosary
Im glad Im not a Kennedy

Imagine being a Kennedy
Rule without remedy
To watch your family die
The world loves a sacrifice
Prophets longing for the three
Honouring the tragedy
They hunger for the crime
The privilege to take a life

Wearing the fame like a loaded gun
Tied up with a rosary
Ooh, Im glad Im not a Kennedy

I love the look in your eyes
I can see your soul sometimes and we laugh
When we try too hard we stop and start
Oh imagine being a Kennedy
Im glad Im not a Kennedy

Wearing the fame like a loaded gun
Tied up with a rosary
Im glad Im not a Kennedy

Imagine being a Kennedy
Ooh Im glad Im not a Kennedy

http://www.shonalaing.com/lyrics.php

Greig Blanchett

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Aug 27, 2009, 2:10:33 AM8/27/09
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On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:43:23 +1000, "dechucka" <vo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Looks like a prop.

--
greig

meat n 2 veg

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Aug 27, 2009, 2:36:41 AM8/27/09
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On Aug 26, 11:38 pm, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article <h747nf$1q...@aioe.org>,

>  "Brad Anton" <ant_on_k...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "William Clark" <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
> >news:clark-D7D529....@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> > > In article
> > > <a2f9d51b-4e61-432c-9bb7-755409a4e...@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,

> > > meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >> On Aug 26, 4:28 pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
> > >> > GHFAN wrote:
>
> > >> > <snip>
>
> > >> > > So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> > >> > > Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> > >> > > Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
>
> > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddickincident
>
> > > Piss off, jerk.
>
> > Why the hostility William? Do you not believe this happened?
> > Brad
>
> Not at all, but this is all this cretin has to offer. Make a case, by
> asll means, but this cheap shot crap is for morons.
>
> He is like the "protesters" at the town hall meetings on health care -
> only interested in seeing who can shout the loudest.

so you would let her drown as well ?

meat n 2 veg

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Aug 27, 2009, 2:40:41 AM8/27/09
to

a shame he let her drown ?

you remind me of the people who gloss over the fact that Michael
Jackson was pedofile

JollyRoger

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Aug 27, 2009, 3:02:43 AM8/27/09
to
> Jackson was pedofile- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Charges brought against MJ either never made it to court, or was
dismissed.

Next?

Jolly

didgerman

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Aug 27, 2009, 3:24:42 AM8/27/09
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GHFAN wrote:
> In November 1963 I was an 18 year old Supply Assistant on HMNZS (Her

Good post. Bloody shame he died at 77, it would've been good to have a
Kennedy around a lot longer.
Is there really still racism in the South? There's a fine line between
racism and stupidity, perhaps they're just leaning more towards the
second one. Barack will sort them out, he could disarm anyone. I'm just
hoping he starts with North Korea and Iran......


Uncle Dave

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Aug 27, 2009, 3:32:22 AM8/27/09
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On Aug 26, 11:15 pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>


>   But redemption is possible for everyone, and if you look at this
> guys record he was an outstanding human being for most of his life.
> I've heard some anecdotes from people that knew him and he really did
> believe and live public service like no one else I can think of. All
> sinners should try to redeem themselves like he did, the world would
> be a much better place.

I can almost hear the gospel singers practising in the church across
the road. Hallelujah brother!

UD

Uncle Dave

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:34:09 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 1:42 am, "dechucka" <vo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

<snip>


>
> I'm saying that the IRA also had its supporters. Remember one mans freedom
> fighter is another mans terrorist. No comment either way on the "troubles"
> except to say that there was/is right and wrong on both sides.

Are you implying that the British government could be wrong about
something?!

UD

Uncle Dave

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:38:11 AM8/27/09
to

No! William would lecture her on the perils of allowing forward play
to dominate modern rugby. And while he was doing that she'd drown.

UD

JollyRoger

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:38:33 AM8/27/09
to

To give you an idea: I was introduced to a fellow from Alabama a
while back, and on hearing I'm from South Africa he pulled me aside
and told me in a hushed tone "You should come down to Alabama, you'll
like it more down there".

Jolly

Uncle Dave

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:44:56 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 4:33 am, BrentC <b...@b.b> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:20:31 -0700 (PDT), GHFAN
>
> <geoffandr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Glad I'm not a Kennedy

Oh, I dunno, they seem to be doing alright even now - http://www.deadkennedys.com/.
I wonder what comment they'll put in their news section when they get
around to it?!

UD

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:53:32 AM8/27/09
to

I'd rather go to court and clear my name than pay $22
million....reminds of of Teddy letting the girl drown...

Charles

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:58:25 AM8/27/09
to

Yes he was; he may have been hugely independently wealthy, but he was
a professional politician as a doctor, lawyer et al are professionals.
Kennedy, and his clan, were professional politicians because of, and
as an extension to, their wealth and power, and he did nothing else
"professionally" for the duration of his life.

>He was actually one of the
>last of the breed of the wealthy patricians who enter politics through a
>sense of the obligations to public service that wealth and privilege
>bring. Very much the old British upper class ideal.

The concept of "patrician" is a euphemism for the assumption of the
right to rule by way of inherited wealth and privilege. It was/is the
way of the rich and powerful to hold sway over the masses, and to know
what is best for them, to the benefit of the Establishment. It was the
assumed right of the Establishment to maintain and increase their
power and influence. Apart from a few well-intentioned half-wits (Lord
Longford for example), there is/was very little altruism.

>He was not "professional" - he didn't need the money.

He wanted, needed and enjoyed the power.

>One can argue about the rights and wrongs of this type of public service, but you can also
>contrast it with the self serving socioeconomic climbers that infest
>modern politics, and spend more time trying to figure out ways to line
>their own pockets, rather than further the interests of the public.

That is also true, but until we achieve *real* democracy, which is
government of the people at the will of the people, and not government
by the dogma of political parties, then we are really rather stuck
with it.

didgerman

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:59:35 AM8/27/09
to

So you said 'Why? Because you live in Baltimore?'

Yep, arseholes all over the world....

didgerman

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 4:01:03 AM8/27/09
to

Dodgy name aside, they were pretty crap.
Get some Buzzcocks into you, er I mean, matua alert......

>
> UD
>

Charles

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 4:05:17 AM8/27/09
to
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:39:08 +1000, "dechucka" <vo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Your grasp on politics, history and the British Way and Purpose is
endearingly naive, and reminiscent of the air-headed wit of some of
the more extravagant popsies I have known over the years. ;o)

You may benefit from reading and inwardly digesting this potted but
rather useful summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Charles

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 4:21:01 AM8/27/09
to

No you don't, you're loving it and probably creaming your jeans.

>but not everyone in the world thinks
>Britain did a nice job with Ireland. It's quite in line with his other
>views on social and political injustice.
>

The great US of A took on the mantle of the world's most powerful
nation following the demise of the British Empire. As the citizens of
America have found to their cost, it is not an easy task to be the
self-appointed world policeman.

Support of terrorist organisations based on romantic notions of past
foreign kinsmanship, have a habit of coming back to bite people in the
arse. In the United States, 9/11 was that very pre-destined reality
check, and look where that took us all.

You may sneer at Britain's sometimes inglorious past, but she was, and
still is, a great Britain.


Klitty

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 4:21:25 AM8/27/09
to
JollyRoger <hcst...@hotmail.com> writes:

I know you don't like the English team of 2003, but really ....

Chris Parslow

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 5:34:21 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 12:20 am, GHFAN <geoffandr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In November 1963 I was an 18 year old Supply Assistant on HMNZS (Her
> Majesty's New Zealand Ship) Taranaki. We were berthed in Pearl Harbor,
> Hawaii when an announcement came over the ships loudspeaker saying
> President Kennedy had been assassinated. The ships company was in
> shock and not quite sure what to do. The Taranaki was a guest of the
> USN and we were in Pearl Harbor working with them on various exercises
> prior to go on station in the Far East as part of SEATO (it no longer
> exists). In no time at all the sky was full of jets patrolling the
> harbor as ships got up steam to get to sea. Pearl Harbor is shaped
> like a keyhole and if ships get caught in the keyhole they're sitting
> ducks (ask the Japanese)
>
> We eventually made our way out into the Pacific and our job as an anti
> submarine frigate was to patrol the seas around the Hawaiian Islands.
> It was the height of the Cold War and during previous exercises our
> sonar had "pinged" on Russian submarines who regularly tested the
> capabilities of the ships of SEATO. It was all a game until that day.
> All anyone knew was that the President had been murdered and we went
> into the highest level of alert. My action station was in the magazine
> where I stood by to load shells into the forward 4.5" gun. I was
> dressed in anti-flash gear for hours as we waited to find out what had
> happened. Some hours later when the authorities knew it was an
> assassination and not an all out war we were stood down and Taranaki
> steamed back into Pearl Harbor. As we steamed in our Captain came on
> the ships loudspeaker suggesting that anyone going ashore should keep
> a low profile and show respect and sympathy towards our fellow sailors
> of the USN. I didn't go ashore that day but did a few days later. I
> went with a group of about half a dozen young guys and we made an
> effort to keep our heads down and out of trouble. We were all 17, 18,
> 19, 20 years old and non of us politically motivated. We were more
> interested in getting laid than who our leaders were. I guess it was a
> sign of the times how our parents had bought us up to show respect to
> our leaders (Hell, we even stood up prior to watching a movie as they
> played God Save the Queen) and being in the Navy showing respect to
> any person in authority was a given.
>
> Once ashore our group wandered about and eventually found an bar close
> to Fort Derussey. What attracted us to this particular bar was the
> sound of some sort of celebration. There must have been a dozen US
> military guys cheering, chanting and generally whooping it up. We were
> surprised at how happy they were and one of our group asked what the
> celebration was about. We were told in no uncertain terms that the
> celebration was the death of President Kennedy. We didn't understand
> it. It was all so foreign and undignified. Here was this young
> President generally loved throughout the world and he'd been murdered.
> How strange that people should celebrate. We then learned that the
> basis of the celebration was "He got what he deserved as nobody fucks
> with the South. We don't need equal rights. Save your Dixie Cups, the
> South will rise again blah blah blah". Oh boy, had we led sheltered
> lives. We were so green. We didn't stay at the bar long as it just
> didn't "feel" right. It was an introduction to a certain type of
> racism that still haunts me.
>
> Later on this same trip we were stationed in Hong Kong and enjoyed the
> company of many US military guys on leave from Vietnam. We became
> quite friendly with a group of US Marines on R & R who had bought
> their wives out from the States. We had had a great old time racing
> Rickshaw's and bringing them along to rugby games at the Happy Valley
> racecourse grounds. We told them about our experience in Hawaii and
> the Marines were as ashamed as we were. They explained how certain
> southern states were struggling with equal rights, how many whites
> felt threatened and Kennedy was so hated in parts of the south. We
> didn't harp on it but did talk about it amongst ourselves.

>
> So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
> However, they were genuinely concerned citizens. Racism is still
> amongst us and when I hear and see the angry people on TV I fear for
> President Obama. God have mercy on us.

It's worth enduring container-loads of time-thieving bog-standard my-
country's-team-right-or-wrong blandery and cross-posted crud and
Usenet Warrior nonsense and poorly-constructed flames / trolls to
happen upon posts like this.

Hellishly well done for an old bugger. I can say this because I was
still at school when JFK got nailed...


CP

Chris Parslow

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 5:59:44 AM8/27/09
to

Only prior to Magna Carta.

Hunk-dory since then...


CP

didgerman

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 5:59:51 AM8/27/09
to
Uncle Dave wrote:
> On Aug 26, 7:35 pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>

>> I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
>> and what he achieved is foolish
>
> Well, that depends. I remember the incident and hoo-hah surrounding
> it very well as I was going through my "informed young person period"
> and took Newsweek, Time and read newspapers too! The view from
> America on current affairs is always interesting, and is always
> perverse. Much ranting about the freeing of a likely innocent man to
> die and much weeping over the death of a likely guilty man. Yes, he
> did a lot of good stuff and I believe in forgiving and forgetting but
> his actions with regard to the Chappaquiddick incident were those of
> just another slimy politician and you know how much I like those ;-)

Although it's quite possible he was drunk. Think he put his hands up the
morning after didn't he?

>
> UD

johnmhill

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 6:10:22 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 26, 8:51 pm, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <a8fba7fa-5102-4a40-b3e8-15423e24b...@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>  JollyRoger <hcstan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Excellent story, m8.  Reading this reminded me why I still frequent
> > this newsgroup, for the odd diamond in the rough.
>
> > Racism here in the states is unfortunately still alive and well,
> > despite the best intentions of a whole generation.  I have never been
> > able to understand it really.  As a South African I knew why my
> > countrymen (and myself) were racist.  It was because they were really
> > scared.  It had very little do with hatred.  The flavor of racism here
> > in the States is the scariest I have ever encountered in my life,
> > because there is no rational behind it and it seemed to be fueled
> > entirely by hatred.
>
> > You are right that we should fear for the life of Obama, especially
> > now.  That fear should however be centered around the preservation of
> > his life, and not for what he stands for.  I believe the ideals that
> > he aspires to, all of us (OK most) aspire to.  That is why he got
> > elected.  Hope lives on, despite the passing of leaders.
>
> I agree. The current tidal wave of venom that is being unleashed in the
> health care town hall meetings has, in my view, much less to do with the
> government offering universal health care (which the general population
> favours by a more than 2 to 1 margin) than it does with the sheer hatred
> of Obama as a black, liberal Democrat, President. They simply cannot
> tolerate the very idea. Given the race baiting that Limbaugh, Beck,
> Hannity and others are leading, it can only be a matter of time before
> some deranged redneck takes a shot at Obama. When he does, these
> blowhards will, of course, proclaim that it has nothing to do with them,
> when in reality it has everything to do with the atmosphere they have
> provoked since day one.
>
> We can only hope that the sanity of the (vast) majority will overcome
> the hatred of the wingnuts, as it did last November, and that Kennedy's
> vision of public service lives on.

I've just come back from a month in Southern California.

Obama seems to be universally detested. I'd say 70% of the people we
spoke to were opposed him,- not just a few wingnuts; the vast
majority, not just to his healthcare reforms, to him. And it had
nothing to do with his colour, rather to the sense of a vacuum he
gives out. He is struggling with getting the healthcare message over,
because he overcomplicates it and he is fighting the insurance
companies. It looks to be that he will fail in this and lose even more
popularity.

The view I heard from most of the people I spoke to was that Barack
was elected largely because the other side didn't have a pretty enough
candidate.

He still has done nothing, won no battles, changed very little. He has
no track record, at anything to suggest otherwise.

No one we spoke was concerned about his colour, but all were concerned
about his ability and his substance.

JH

johnmhill

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 6:13:27 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 26, 9:38 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> On Aug 26, 7:35 pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> >    I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
> > and what he achieved is foolish
>
> Well, that depends.  I remember the incident and hoo-hah surrounding
> it very well as I was going through my "informed young person period"
> and took Newsweek, Time and read newspapers too!   The view from
> America on current affairs is always interesting, and is always
> perverse.  Much ranting about the freeing of a likely innocent man to
> die and much weeping over the death of a likely guilty man.  Yes, he
> did a lot of good stuff and I believe in forgiving and forgetting but
> his actions with regard to the Chappaquiddick incident were those of
> just another slimy politician and you know how much I like those ;-)
>
> UD

There is a story that he was in N Ireland and asked a young British
soldier why he didn't go home. The reply "I am home mate, why don't
YOU go home"
He achieved a lot for social justice, but also supported Noraid so not
RIP supporter of terrorists

JH

johnmhill

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 6:15:28 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 26, 11:39 pm, "dechucka" <vo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Charles" <j...@msn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:tedb951kdsa6fnkte...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:15:52 -0700 (PDT), Two Dogs
> > <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> >>On Aug 26, 4:38 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >>> On Aug 26, 7:35 pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> <snip>
>
> >>> > I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
> >>> > and what he achieved is foolish
>
> >>> Well, that depends. I remember the incident and hoo-hah surrounding
> >>> it very well as I was going through my "informed young person period"
> >>> and took Newsweek, Time and read newspapers too! The view from
> >>> America on current affairs is always interesting, and is always
> >>> perverse. Much ranting about the freeing of a likely innocent man to
> >>> die and much weeping over the death of a likely guilty man. Yes, he
> >>> did a lot of good stuff and I believe in forgiving and forgetting but
> >>> his actions with regard to the Chappaquiddick incident were those of
> >>> just another slimy politician and you know how much I like those ;-)
>
> >>> UD
>
> >>  It was a horrible incident, Dave, thats for sure, it bothered me as
> >>well, even if I'm much younger than you !!!
>
> >>  But redemption is possible for everyone, and if you look at this
> >>guys record he was an outstanding human being for most of his life.
> >>I've heard some anecdotes from people that knew him and he really did
> >>believe and live public service like no one else I can think of. All
> >>sinners should try to redeem themselves like he did, the world would
> >>be a much better place.
>
> > His 'romantic' enthusiasm for the IRA in its heyday (prior to 9/11),
> > didn't exactly endear him to those involved in the 'troubles', and
> > from his privileged background, his left-wing liberal policies did not
> > exactly appeal to Republicans or Conservatives.
>
> I'm sure that many peoples support for the British Goverments role in N
> Ireland didn't exactly endear them to some involved in the "troubles".
>
> snip

What, policing their own country against foreign funded terrorists. Is
that what you mean?

JH

johnmhill

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 6:25:01 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 2:36 am, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 26, 6:33 pm, Charles <j...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > He was a professional politician, that's all he knew and that's all he
> > did. That is a breed which is not necessarily dedicated selflessly to
> > their electorate, and a powerful 'Maltese breast-stroke' is the
> > favoured propulsion through life for most of them.
>
>  I hate the typical slimy Pol as much as the next man but Ted was a
> different fish. The entire Kennedy Clan had a sense of service that is
> an anachronism in today's political rat race. It might have been that
> old Joe made so much money bootlegging that the boys had nothing else
> to do but go into public service for service's sake. Whatever it was
> that created their sense of democratic social responsibility was a
> good thing. It is unlikely to be seen again any time soon.
>
>   Oh, and I hate to tell you but not everyone in the world thinks

> Britain did a nice job with Ireland. It's quite in line with his other
> views on social and political injustice.
>
>  Two Dogs

What utter bollocks. Joe Kennedy - Nazi lover, crook (bootlegger),
opponenent of American entry to the war in any form and Patriarch
groomed his sons to be politicians and a presidential dynasty in order
to increase his family's power.

From Wikipedia

"In 1938, Roosevelt appointed Kennedy as the United States Ambassador
to the Court of St. James's (Britain). Kennedy's Irish and Catholic
status did not bother the British; indeed he hugely enjoyed his
leadership position in London society, which stood in stark contrast
to his outsider status in Boston. His daughter Kathleen married the
heir to the Duke of Devonshire, the head of one of England's grandest
aristocratic families. Kennedy rejected the warnings of Winston
Churchill that compromise with Nazi Germany was impossible; instead he
supported Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement
in order to stave off a second world war that would be a more horrible
"armageddon" than the first. Throughout 1938, as the Nazi persecution
of Jews intensified, Kennedy attempted to obtain an audience with
Adolf Hitler.[11] Shortly before the Nazi aerial bombing of British
cities began in September 1940, Kennedy sought a personal meeting with
Hitler, again without State Department approval, "to bring about a
better understanding between the United States and Germany."[12]

Kennedy argued strongly against giving aid to Britain.

"Democracy is finished in England. It may be here," stated Ambassador
Kennedy in the Boston Sunday Globe of November 10, 1940. In that one
simple statement, Joe Kennedy ruined any future chances of becoming US
president, effectively committing political suicide. While bombs fell
daily on the UK, Nazi troops occupied Poland, Belgium, the
Netherlands, and France, Ambassador Kennedy unambiguously and
repeatedly stated his belief that the war was not about saving
democracy from National Socialism (Nazism) or Fascism. In the now-
infamous, long, rambling interview with two newspaper journalists,
Louis M. Lyons of the Boston Globe and Ralph Coghlan of the St. Louis
Post-Dispatch, Kennedy opined:

"It's all a question of what we do with the next six months. The whole
reason for aiding England is to give us time." ... "As long as she is
in there, we have time to prepare. It isn't that [Britain is] fighting
for democracy. That's the bunk. She's fighting for self-preservation,
just as we will if it comes to us... I know more about the European
situation than anybody else, and it's up to me to see that the country
gets it,"[13]

In British government circles during the Blitz, Ambassador Kennedy was
widely disparaged as a defeatist.

When the American public and Roosevelt Administration officials read
his quotes on democracy being "finished", and his belief that the
Battle of Britain wasn't about "fighting for democracy," all of it
being just "bunk", they realized that Ambassador Kennedy could not be
trusted to represent the United States. In the face of national public
outcry, he was offered the chance to fall on his sword, and he
submitted his resignation later that month."

Not exactly "The entire Kennedy Clan had a sense of service that is an


anachronism in today's political rat race"

JH

JD

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 6:34:37 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 4:35 am, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 26, 12:19 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:

>
>
>
> > On Aug 26, 3:47 pm, meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 26, 4:28 pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
>
> > > > GHFAN wrote:
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> > > > > Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> > > > > Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
>
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
>
> > Have to say that Mary Jo Kopechne has haunted him ever since.
> > Whatever else you can say about the guy, he was a complete and utter
> > arsehole that night and got off scot free thanks, no doubt, to his old
> > man's connections.  He tried hard to make up for it during his career
> > but I don't think you can ever cancel that particular sin out...
>
> > UD
>
>   If life was a scoreboard you may have a point, but it's not really,
> is it? It's a series of ups and downs, successes and fuckups.
>
>   Ted Kennedy was a great American, Chappaquiddick or no
> Chapawhatever. If you look at the causes he championed, the type of
> legislation he wrote and promoted, and the influence he had on the US
> Senate you would see that for yourself. There is not a piece of
> Health, Labor, or Social legislation in the last 47 years that
> doesan't have his fingerprints all over it. He's probably the most
> influential person never to have been President in the history of the
> United States, and he used that influence for the betterment of his
> fellow human beings.
>
>    I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
> and what he achieved is foolish

Good grief, the man never worked a day in his life and from a position
of absolute privilege managed the magnanimous task of sitting in the
Senate for nine terms. Easy to promote legislation that will never
have an impact on your life; no immigrant or coloured person is takin'
his job or moving next door...

This is how he should be remembered: A cunt of a human being who
caused the death of a young woman and cowardly ran off, hiding until
after her body had been found. Complicit in yet another cover up and
media trial of a victim of his nephew, William Kennedy Smith who was
accused of rape. A hypocrite of the largest order whilst championing
environmental issues killed off the nation's first offshore wind farm
-- an array of 130 wind turbines capable of generating enough
electricity to meet 75 percent of the Cape and Islands' energy needs,
without burning any oil or emitting any pollution. The turbines would
be miles from any coastal property, barely visible on the horizon.

Brent

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 8:05:48 AM8/27/09
to

His approval ratings remain over 50%, so it's pretty obvious you
didn't speak to a representative sample John, although that's not a
surprise given your own views. I'm not sure what you're trying to
prove here.

Cheers

Brent

alvey

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 8:05:05 AM8/27/09
to
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:20:31 -0700 (PDT), GHFAN wrote:


* Insert scathingly uncomplimentary piece on the Kennedys here. *;

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 8:14:49 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 2:05 pm, alvey <al...@play.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:20:31 -0700 (PDT), GHFAN wrote:
>
> * Insert scathingly uncomplimentary piece on the Kennedys here. *;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6095890/Ted-Kennedy-bitter-memories-linger-at-Chappaquiddick.html

Two Dogs

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 8:50:28 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 2:40 am, meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 27, 12:09 am, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 26, 3:08 pm, meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> > > On Aug 26, 8:35 pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 26, 12:19 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 26, 3:47 pm, meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Aug 26, 4:28 pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > GHFAN wrote:
>
> > > > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > > > So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> > > > > > > > Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> > > > > > > > Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
>
> > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
>
> > > > > Have to say that Mary Jo Kopechne has haunted him ever since.
> > > > > Whatever else you can say about the guy, he was a complete and utter
> > > > > arsehole that night and got off scot free thanks, no doubt, to his old
> > > > > man's connections.  He tried hard to make up for it during his career
> > > > > but I don't think you can ever cancel that particular sin out...
>
> > > > > UD
>
> > > >   If life was a scoreboard you may have a point, but it's not really,
> > > > is it? It's a series of ups and downs, successes and fuckups.
>
> > > >   Ted Kennedy was a great American, Chappaquiddick or no
> > > > Chapawhatever. If you look at the causes he championed, the type of
> > > > legislation he wrote and promoted, and the influence he had on the US
> > > > Senate you would see that for yourself. There is not a piece of
> > > > Health, Labor, or Social legislation in the last 47 years that
> > > > doesan't have his fingerprints all over it. He's probably the most
> > > > influential person never to have been President in the history of the
> > > > United States, and he used that influence for the betterment of his
> > > > fellow human beings.
>
> > > >    I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of who he was
> > > > and what he achieved is foolish
>
> > > > Two Dogs
>
> > > I'm sure her parents felt the same....
>
> >   You are just a dickhead, Micheal. What a shame....
>
> >   Two Dogs
>
> a shame he let her drown ?
>
> you remind me of the people who gloss over the fact that Michael
> Jackson was pedofile

Did he let her drown? You know this? You should have been a witness
at the inquest, no one else saw him watch her drown.

You are a sad little man, micheal, chipping away at others
achievements as a way to make yourself feel better..

Two Dogs

Two Dogs

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 8:59:41 AM8/27/09
to

I live in the South. Racism went underground a bit after the Civil
rights years of the 60's but it's still there. The difference is it's
no longer official policy, segregation is dead, and so is lynching.
The KKK is almost non existent.

I'll go with stupidity for the most part. The most obvious racism
comes from white country folk or poor city white trash who seem to
hate blacks mainly because Pappy and his Pappy before him did.


And it's not just a Southern thing. What is left of the KKK is
strongest in the northern midwest states.


Two Dogs

Two Dogs

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 9:00:36 AM8/27/09
to

Thank you Brother Covey, can I get an Amen?

Two Dogs

Two Dogs

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 9:18:36 AM8/27/09
to

I was talking about the three sons. That's quite clear. And I did
mention that Joe was a bootlegger, and I was well aware of his history
as Ambassador. I stand by the statement.

Four sons actually. The eldest died in 1944 on a volunteer bombing
run against V2 rocket sites. Y'know, those things that were landing on
London...

Two Dogs

Klitty

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 9:36:45 AM8/27/09
to
didgerman <didg...@rfu.com> writes:

OH! That's ok then :-;

--
Pamcakes : "Can't you sleep?"
Gaylord Focker: "Err no, I was running over the answers I gave to your father when he put me through a polygraph test".

Klitty

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 9:41:15 AM8/27/09
to
Two Dogs <blewd...@gmail.com> writes:

Just how great a movie is Mississippi Burning ?

In The Heat Of The Night with the legendary Rod Steiger and the darkie
isn't as good as I remember ......

(:-;)

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 9:49:51 AM8/27/09
to

Two Dogs

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 9:57:57 AM8/27/09
to
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6095890/Te...

Can't you google something we don't know, Newport?

Two Dogs

William Clark

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 10:20:55 AM8/27/09
to
In article
<7763aefe-2dd5-415d...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
meat n 2 veg <michael...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Aug 26, 11:38�pm, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> state.edu> wrote:
> > In article <h747nf$1q...@aioe.org>,
> > �"Brad Anton" <ant on k...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > "William Clark" <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
> > >news:clark-D7D529....@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> > > > In article
> > > > <a2f9d51b-4e61-432c-9bb7-755409a4e...@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,


> > > > meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> On Aug 26, 4:28 pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
> > > >> > GHFAN wrote:
> >
> > > >> > <snip>
> >
> > > >> > > So here it is 46 years later and the last Kennedy brother has died.
> > > >> > > Both John and Bobby murdered and Ted dying of brain cancer. The
> > > >> > > Kennedy brothers were not perfect. In fact, they were far from it.
> >

> > > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddickincident
> >
> > > > Piss off, jerk.
> >
> > > Why the hostility William? Do you not believe this happened?
> > > Brad
> >
> > Not at all, but this is all this cretin has to offer. Make a case, by
> > asll means, but this cheap shot crap is for morons.
> >
> > He is like the "protesters" at the town hall meetings on health care -
> > only interested in seeing who can shout the loudest.
>
> so you would let her drown as well ?

I would certainly hold you under.

William Clark

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 10:21:52 AM8/27/09
to
In article
<5e4f6879-584b-4bbe...@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Uncle Dave <david...@t-online.de> wrote:

> No! William would lecture her on the perils of allowing forward play
> to dominate modern rugby. And while he was doing that she'd drown.
>
> UD

Actually I would show her continuous videos of the Springbok approach to
winning test matches, and she would expire from sheer boredom.

William Clark

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 10:25:57 AM8/27/09
to
In article
<0f91c72e-ab4a-4fe6...@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
johnmhill <jo...@huntersm.com> wrote:

Next time you visit you should a) try to visit a place that is not on
the lunatic fringe, and b) keep your eyes and ears open more, and leave
your ultra-right prejudices behind. Elections are always one because
"the other candidate isn't better" by definition. You have been suckered
by the Murdoch spin machine, but the actual reality among ordinary
people is far different.

William Clark

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 10:26:26 AM8/27/09
to
In article
<69a0c5c2-2751-4bd9...@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
Brent <the_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Indeed, there's none so blind . . .

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 10:51:01 AM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 4:20 pm, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <7763aefe-2dd5-415d-bc07-6cf3bcddf...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

...a touching 'homage' to Teddy ;-)

JollyRoger

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 11:51:03 AM8/27/09
to
> JH- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I think John had some of the Cool Aid...

Jolly

JollyRoger

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 11:55:29 AM8/27/09
to

BTW Dave, can you bring along en extra pillowcase tonight. Lost
mine...

Jolly

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 11:55:40 AM8/27/09
to

BrritSki

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 12:00:50 PM8/27/09
to

STRESS MANAGEMENT

Picture yourself near a stream.
Birds are singing in the crisp, cool mountain air.
Nothing can bother you here.
No one knows this secret place.
You are in total seclusion from
that place called the world.
The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall
fills the air with a cascade of serenity.
The water is crystal clear.
You can easily make out the face of the person
whose head you're holding under the water.

Peter Twydell

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 12:18:18 PM8/27/09
to
In message
<d11da8c2-ab83-4a21...@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, Two
Dogs <blewd...@gmail.com> writes

>On Aug 27, 6:25�am, johnmhill <j...@huntersm.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 2:36�am, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 26, 6:33�pm, Charles <j...@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:15:52 -0700 (PDT), Two Dogs
>>
>> > > <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >On Aug 26, 4:38�pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
>> > > >> On Aug 26, 7:35�pm, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > >> <snip>
>>
>> > > >> > � �I wasn't a huge fan of his, but to ignore the essence of

Just to pick a nit: the operation involved an explosives-laden BQ-8
drone, intended to be used against the V-3 supergun site at Mimoyecques.
Sadly, the operation would have been unnecessary anyway as the RAF's
Dambuster squadron (617) had already put the site out of action.

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Joseph_P._Kennedy,_Jr.

> Two Dogs

--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 12:21:41 PM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 6:00 pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
> William Clark wrote:
> > In article
> > <7763aefe-2dd5-415d-bc07-6cf3bcddf...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

> >  meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> so you would let her drown as well ?
>
> > I would certainly hold you under.
>
> STRESS MANAGEMENT
>
> Picture yourself near a stream.
> Birds are singing in the crisp, cool mountain air.
> Nothing can bother you here.
> No one knows this secret place.
> You are in total seclusion from
> that place called the world.
> The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall
> fills the air with a cascade of serenity.
> The water is crystal clear.
> You can easily make out the face of the person
> whose head you're holding under the water.

...its Mary Jo Kopechne...

William Clark

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 2:10:17 PM8/27/09
to
In article
<8c032e4b-25fa-44ba...@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

No, it would be you.

Happily.

William Clark

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 2:10:51 PM8/27/09
to
In article
<ec3e04e7-9260-4628...@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,

Actually, just a valuable service to mankind.

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:11:35 PM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 8:10 pm, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <ec3e04e7-9260-4628-bf09-8ee189b14...@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,

whatever.......the murdering old drunk gets buried on Saturday

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 3:12:14 PM8/27/09
to
On Aug 27, 8:10 pm, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <8c032e4b-25fa-44ba-a54b-12d13e18f...@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

>  meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 27, 6:00 pm, BrritSki <Brrit...@iname.com> wrote:
> > > William Clark wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <7763aefe-2dd5-415d-bc07-6cf3bcddf...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> > > >  meat n 2 veg <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >> so you would let her drown as well ?
>
> > > > I would certainly hold you under.
>
> > > STRESS MANAGEMENT
>
> > > Picture yourself near a stream.
> > > Birds are singing in the crisp, cool mountain air.
> > > Nothing can bother you here.
> > > No one knows this secret place.
> > > You are in total seclusion from
> > > that place called the world.
> > > The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall
> > > fills the air with a cascade of serenity.
> > > The water is crystal clear.
> > > You can easily make out the face of the person
> > > whose head you're holding under the water.
>
> > ...its Mary Jo Kopechne...
>
> No, it would be you.
>
> Happily.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Greig Blanchett

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 4:03:37 PM8/27/09
to

John lives on the lunatic fringe. You should ask him his views on
Kiwis.

--
greig

Ziggy

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 5:00:10 PM8/27/09
to

"didgerman" <didg...@rfu.com> wrote in message
news:h75edb$ent$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> JollyRoger wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 12:24 am, didgerman <didger...@rfu.com> wrote:

>>> GHFAN wrote:
>>>> In November 1963 I was an 18 year old Supply Assistant on HMNZS (Her
>>> Good post. Bloody shame he died at 77, it would've been good to have a
>>> Kennedy around a lot longer.
>>> Is there really still racism in the South? There's a fine line between
>>> racism and stupidity, perhaps they're just leaning more towards the
>>> second one. Barack will sort them out, he could disarm anyone. I'm just
>>> hoping he starts with North Korea and Iran......
>>
>> To give you an idea: I was introduced to a fellow from Alabama a
>> while back, and on hearing I'm from South Africa he pulled me aside
>> and told me in a hushed tone "You should come down to Alabama, you'll
>> like it more down there".
>>
>> Jolly
>
> So you said 'Why? Because you live in Baltimore?'
>
> Yep, arseholes all over the world....

When I arrived in Australia in 1969, everyone fell over themselves to tell
me jokes about the Aborigenes. Then I was promoted to head up their
Singapore opeerations because as the Chairman explained - you understand
these coloured people better than us. They just assumed I was a racist
coming from SA. Funny that.

Ziggy

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 5:09:31 PM8/27/09
to

"Greig Blanchett" <gre...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom> wrote in message
news:ojpd95ducpn9saifq...@4ax.com...

> John lives on the lunatic fringe. You should ask him his views on

> Kiwis.
>
> --
> greig

I worked in Chicago 6 months of the year for over 4 years. I know alittle
about Chicago politics which is the most corrupt in the US - and has always
been. You do not become the Senator from there with unblemished hands and a
lot of favours owed to various unsavoury types. I won't bother to go into
the financial disaster that Barack is inflicting upon the US. Simple facts
are that he has skated through his career, delivering little in the way of
substance on anything. He is undoubtedly a master manipulator and can speak
very well in rich baritone from a teleprompter.The US AfroAmericans deserved
better than what they have received as their hero. And so do we.

Ziggy

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 5:16:36 PM8/27/09
to

"Two Dogs" <blewd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6946b2a4-5479-4caf...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

. Did he let her drown? You know this? You should have been a witness


>at the inquest, no one else saw him watch her drown.

>You are a sad little man, micheal, chipping away at others
>achievements as a way to make yourself feel better..

There is not a soul on the island that believes otherwise icluding the
local police, FBI agents etc. And they are devout Democrats and Kennedy
supporters.I doubt that anyone in their hearts in US doubts that he acted in
a cowardly way and left her to die. That is an old story now and it was a
bloody stain on his character. As was his cheating at Harvard. These are
critical incidents that show his character. Did he try and atone - you bet
and he it was great effort and record of achievement. But I would not have
wanted him next to me in the trenches when the bullets started flying.

William Clark

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 5:56:33 PM8/27/09
to
In article <4a96f615$1...@news.peopletelecom.com.au>,
"Ziggy" <larr...@swiftdsl.com.au> wrote:

Aah, sounds like a little tinge of the racist there. I detect :-)

Calvin

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 11:31:24 PM8/27/09
to
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:10:54 +1000, Two Dogs <blewd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 26, 5:59ï¿œpm, Calvin <cal...@phlegm.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:20:31 +1000, GHFAN <geoffandr...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I never realised he played rugby.
>>
> Sorry, perhaps Mummy can explain what OT means for you...

If the only people you have meaningful enough relationships with to
discuss this dead person are on rsru, then I humbly apologise.

--

cheers,
calvin

Calvin

unread,
Aug 27, 2009, 11:32:47 PM8/27/09
to
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:57:57 +1000, Two Dogs <blewd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Can't you google something we don't know, Newport?

Could be dificult, given what you don't know would fill a library.


--

cheers,
calvin

JollyRoger

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 12:22:56 AM8/28/09
to
On Aug 27, 8:31 pm, Calvin <cal...@phlegm.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:10:54 +1000, Two Dogs <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 26, 5:59 pm, Calvin <cal...@phlegm.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:20:31 +1000, GHFAN <geoffandr...@gmail.com>  
> >> wrote:
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >> I never realised he played rugby.
>
> >   Sorry, perhaps Mummy can explain what OT means for you...
>
> If the only people you have meaningful enough relationships with to  
> discuss this dead person are on rsru, then I humbly apologise.
>
> --
>
> cheers,
> calvin

Don't hurry back!

Jolly

Greig Blanchett

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 2:24:43 AM8/28/09
to

Unfortunately I can't track it down now, but shortly after the
election one of the UK news websites had an article about the REAL
Obama, possibly nicked from the Washington Post.

It mentioned Chicago politics and some of the strings that were
pulled, favors he owed, dodgy characters he'd got into bed with in
order to move as far and as fast in politics as he had.

I'd love to find it again.

--
greig

Klitty

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 2:36:52 AM8/28/09
to
BrritSki <Brri...@iname.com> writes:

> William Clark wrote:
>> In article
>> <7763aefe-2dd5-415d...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>> meat n 2 veg <michael...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> so you would let her drown as well ?
>>
>> I would certainly hold you under.
>
> STRESS MANAGEMENT
>

Wow. You are the man you knows how to deal with people Buttski....

meat n 2 veg

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 3:14:16 AM8/28/09
to
On Aug 27, 11:16 pm, "Ziggy" <larry1...@swiftdsl.com.au> wrote:
> "Two Dogs" <blewdany...@gmail.com> wrote in message

life is stranger than fiction....Kennedy Care: a new name for health
care?

but first the test......they put you in an old clunker and drop you in
the water.....

Stephen Doyle

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 3:48:08 AM8/28/09
to

"Greig Blanchett" <gre...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom> wrote in message
news:1ste95lvvo2en9mij...@4ax.com...

So what?

Cheers
Stephen


didgerman

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 3:56:46 AM8/28/09
to

I lived in Oz during 96, and it was exactly the same, progress eh?
Although to be honest, it was Perth.....

Mike Thompson

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 4:05:05 AM8/28/09
to
On Aug 27, 12:20 am, GHFAN <geoffandr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In November 1963 I was an 18 year old Supply Assistant on HMNZS (Her
> etc


Hmm. Like most stories about him, sentiment carries the narrative.

--
Mike

Greig Blanchett

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 4:51:23 AM8/28/09
to

Just adding to the sun-doesn't-shine-out-of-Obamas-ass thread. To be
honest, I could care less. Though the fanboyism surrounding Obama,
seemingly just because he is black, creeps me out a little.

--
greig

Uncle Dave

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 5:31:42 AM8/28/09
to
On Aug 28, 9:51 am, Greig Blanchett <gre...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom> wrote:

<sniperooni yessiree>


>
> Just adding to the sun-doesn't-shine-out-of-Obamas-ass thread. To be
> honest, I could care less. Though the fanboyism surrounding Obama,
> seemingly just because he is black, creeps me out a little.

I feel sorry for the guy. The Republicans deliberately fielded a
candidate without even half a chance but who would not be around next
time so they can go into that campaign with someone looking squeaky
clean. Meanwhile, poor old Obama is suckered into taking on the
problems caused by the most capitalist vandals whilst committed to
trying to do something about those things which people voted him in
for. Meanwhile, the liberals think they won something. I liked the
Onion's headline - "Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job". I can tell
you one thing for sure - they would not have allowed him into power in
any other circumstances. (Who are "they"? Well, "they" are the
people who decide on which candidates get through the nominating
process. "The delegates in the primaries and caucuses? The
electorate?" I hear you ask. No, the people who give BIG money to the
candidates' campaigns, in collusion with the moatly fascist US mass
media. One of those joyful ironies occurred this week, that only
Americans could provide - they accused the Afghan authorities of fraud
in the recent elections. You couldn't make that shit up...

UD

mg

unread,
Aug 28, 2009, 5:46:27 AM8/28/09
to
"GHFAN" <geoffa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:af099e72-8318-436e...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...

> In November 1963 I was an 18 year old Supply Assistant on HMNZS (Her

POTM!

--
$ cat /dev/null > foo.mg

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