Buying a Jet Boat, Need Help!
J. Pritchard II
Hi!
Well, I guess I will be joining your farternity soon. My fiancee and I
have decided to purchase a jet boat. What in your opinion is the best
buy for the money? I need something that will take a moderate bay chop,
since I live in Tampa nd will be using it almost exclusively in the bay
and intercoastal. If a storm comes up, and I am getting caught in it,
how does a jet boat handle it? I really want to make a wise decision on
this. What are the best brands? Sea-doo or Yamaha? 2 engine or single?
I don't want the blazing speed, but I do want the insurance of two
engines, don't I? Please Help!
John
Hkrause
If you want a small jetboat and you're not looking for the fastest boat on the
water and you want something that can handle a chop and be as safe as can be,
then what you want is the Boston Whaler 15' jetboat with the 175 Merc powered
jet drive.
There is NO PWC manufacturer that makes a hull that can begin to compare in
strength and seaworthiness to this Whaler hull. Further, the Merc 175 is a
time-proven, reliable powerhead with long service intervals.
SeaRay also makes a jetboat based on the Merc engine. It would be second on my
list, behind the Whaler, if I were in the market for a jetboat.
Don't worry much about reliability with the Merc engine. They are damned solid.
--
Harry Krause
EMAIL from newsgroup? Remove -nospam from return address
- - - - - - - - - -
"I don't know what your pleasure threshold is." -- G'Kar
Larry
On 29 Jun 1998 14:33:55 GMT, ven...@gate.net (J. Pritchard II) wrote:
>Hi!
>Well, I guess I will be joining your farternity soon. My fiancee and I
>have decided to purchase a jet boat. What in your opinion is the best
>buy for the money? I need something that will take a moderate bay chop,
>since I live in Tampa nd will be using it almost exclusively in the bay
>and intercoastal. If a storm comes up, and I am getting caught in it,
>how does a jet boat handle it? I really want to make a wise decision on
>this. What are the best brands? Sea-doo or Yamaha? 2 engine or single?
>I don't want the blazing speed, but I do want the insurance of two
>engines, don't I? Please Help!
>John
>
Buy a jetboat with a Mercury Sport Jet in it! I own the 175hp V-6
Merc Sport Jet in my 1997 Sea Rayder F16XR2. Sits vertically over the
pump, not sucking up floor space in front of it. SELF DRAINS every
time you shut it off. Big zincs to keep your pump from being eaten in
the salt. AUTOMATIC START with computer-controlled enrichment system
on all 6 carbs. 5 circuit carbs, smooth as glass at all speeds. ANY
Merc dealer can fix it, ANYWHERE. Same powerhead that Merc has been
building since 1983. NAPA has parts for it! Huge impeller turns only
4000 RPM, not 7000 RPM. Stainless prop in stainless pump ring. Great
reverse bucket you can even deploy at full speed for emergency stop in
15 ft! Scary fun. Sips fuel. I cruise around all day on 10-15
gallons, about 1/2 what my last Yamaha PWC used! Sea Rayder comes
with nice stereo, bimini top, standard. It's had some quality control
problems, but Sea Ray is real fast to correct them...none of this "to
hell with you" attitude you can read about here. They want you to
come back for your 60' sport yacht.
Don't buy a PWC-powered jetboat UNTIL you've driven any boat with
Mercury 175hp V-6 Sportjet power. Take a test drive at any Sea Ray
dealer...They're very happy to let you drive the Rayders.
Larry...
'97 F16XR2 Sea Rayder with 175hp V-6 Sportjet. Race ya to North
Carolina...(c;
Irv Fisher
I think you guys are right about the mechanical stuff. The Merc is a real
engine. The part I liked the best was the amps it put out. But I tried the
14-16 footers in medium chop and this is not a 'pleasant' ride. You expect
the bouncing and the air on a ski, but it's not the same in a boat. You've
got nothing to get your knees around. When I tried the 18' challenger,
there was no comparison, runs smooth across 3 footers. But unless the buyer
takes it out of the water at the end of the weekend and religiously flushes
it out, there'll be problems. Gas consumption seems to be about 3 times
what I go through with my GSXL so if they're planning on putting on miles at
5K, be prepared to spend $100 or more in a weekend. I'm taking it out on a
50-75 mile ride next Saturday on Georgian Bay, (big water for us fresh water
guys), side by side with the GSXL. I'll have a lot more info after that.
BTW, whenever I see 4 people in any of the smaller jet boats, Sea Ray
included, it looks like the 16 clowns in a VW Beetle.
Lastly, wherever I go with the Ch-18, people are always asking me where I
got it, how much and they'd love one themselves. I can't ever remember
anyone asking me about the 95XP, 95HX, 96GSX or 97GSXL and I bought them all
new too. It's getting a little embarassing already.
silv...@aol.com
In article <6n88kj$11oc$1...@news.gate.net>,
ven...@gate.net (J. Pritchard II) wrote:
>
> Hi!
> Well, I guess I will be joining your farternity soon. My fiancee and I
> have decided to purchase a jet boat. What in your opinion is the best
> buy for the money? I need something that will take a moderate bay chop,
> since I live in Tampa nd will be using it almost exclusively in the bay
> and intercoastal. If a storm comes up, and I am getting caught in it,
> how does a jet boat handle it? I really want to make a wise decision on
> this. What are the best brands? Sea-doo or Yamaha? 2 engine or single?
> I don't want the blazing speed, but I do want the insurance of two
> engines, don't I? Please Help!
> John
>
>
John,
If it is speed and handeling, I would go with what I have, The Yamaha 270,
but if it is rough water handeling that you are worried about, then you
should look at the sea doo challenger 1800, as it has an extra foot, the
yamaha will handel the chop fine, but the ride on rough seas can be very wet,
I personally like the added security of the twin engines, you will find this
on the yamaha or the sea doo. The other options that you can also look at is
the Sugar sands Tango, or the Sea ray sea rayder, these are also fine boats.
what are you going to use it for , fishing, skiing, ??
Larry
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silv...@aol.com
In article <35981612...@news.mindspring.com>,
kn...@ITCsproing.com (Larry) wrote:
>
> On 29 Jun 1998 14:33:55 GMT, ven...@gate.net (J. Pritchard II) wrote:
>
> >Hi!
> >Well, I guess I will be joining your farternity soon. My fiancee and I
> >have decided to purchase a jet boat. What in your opinion is the best
> >buy for the money? I need something that will take a moderate bay chop,
> >since I live in Tampa nd will be using it almost exclusively in the bay
> >and intercoastal. If a storm comes up, and I am getting caught in it,
> >how does a jet boat handle it? I really want to make a wise decision on
> >this. What are the best brands? Sea-doo or Yamaha? 2 engine or single?
> >I don't want the blazing speed, but I do want the insurance of two
> >engines, don't I? Please Help!
> >John
> >
> Merc Sport Jet in my 1997 Sea Rayder F16XR2. Sits vertically over the
> pump, not sucking up floor space in front of it. SELF DRAINS every
> time you shut it off. Big zincs to keep your pump from being eaten in
> the salt. AUTOMATIC START with computer-controlled enrichment system
> on all 6 carbs. 5 circuit carbs, smooth as glass at all speeds. ANY
> Merc dealer can fix it, ANYWHERE. Same powerhead that Merc has been
> building since 1983. NAPA has parts for it! Huge impeller turns only
> 4000 RPM, not 7000 RPM. Stainless prop in stainless pump ring. Great
> reverse bucket you can even deploy at full speed for emergency stop in
> 15 ft! Scary fun. Sips fuel. I cruise around all day on 10-15
> gallons, about 1/2 what my last Yamaha PWC used! Sea Rayder comes
> with nice stereo, bimini top, standard. It's had some quality control
> problems, but Sea Ray is real fast to correct them...none of this "to
> hell with you" attitude you can read about here. They want you to
> come back for your 60' sport yacht.
>
> Don't buy a PWC-powered jetboat UNTIL you've driven any boat with
> Mercury 175hp V-6 Sportjet power. Take a test drive at any Sea Ray
> dealer...They're very happy to let you drive the Rayders.
>
> Larry...
> '97 F16XR2 Sea Rayder with 175hp V-6 Sportjet. Race ya to North
> Carolina...(c;
>
What is the WOT GPH of the 175? as I have never seen it posted any where on
the web?
Larry
On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:06:51 GMT, silv...@aol.com wrote:
>> Larry,
>
>What is the WOT GPH of the 175? as I have never seen it posted any where on
>the web?
>
>
I looked in my service manual, my owner's manual and my maintenance
manual plus I did some web searching. Somewhere I had a boat company
brochure that said 12.5gph, but I can't find it. I must have thrown
it out when I got the boat back in December and wasn't looking at
others any more.
There is NO WAY you can run my 175hp Sea Rayder WOT for any length of
time around here. I can only use it at WOT between boatwakes,
screwing the GPS up to 57-8 after a minute or so. At 4400 RPM (WOT is
5500 RPM on mine), you launch airborne because it's all so
light...1150#. I almost flipped it over the stern doing this when the
wind caught it kinda "vertical" down in the harbor. We have HUGE
wakes downtown because the big yachts wind up tight crossing the open
harbor. It creates great swells that go all across the harbor.
Scared the crap outa me.
The only way I can tell you fuel consumption is at the pump. My
Rayder has a 25 gal tank. It stays full to keep water out. I put in
around 9-10AM on a weekend day, ride around hard enough all day that
my neck hurts and it takes from around 12-17 gallons to refill that
tank on the way home. When I first got the boat, I was trying to
guage the different marks on the gas guage to mark how much fuel was
REALLY left in the tank at each mark. The guage is set so you don't
run out...way high. When it reads 1/2, it takes 8.5g to refill it.
When it reads E there is still 8.8 gallons left in the tank. I quit
worrying about getting back from looking at the guage. It rarely gets
to E with 8.8g left on a long Saturday going to the beach, skiing my
buds around the beach, and getting back up the river home. The
12.5g/hr at WOT must be somewhere close. It gets fantastic mileage
cruising in the 3800 to 4200 RPM range (about 33-40 mph) from the
extra circuits in the carb that lean the mixture way out at mid-power
settings. There's no surging or balking or loading up ANYWHERE in the
range. I can idle around the yacht basin for an hour at 1800 RPM in
the no wake zone, then go to WOT without hesitation or loading at the
bouy. It hasn't skipped in 106 hours that I've run it.
Larry....You just KNOW if it sucked, I'd TELL you.
WE2BANANAS
>e decided to purchase a jet boat. What in your opinion is the best<BR>
>> buy for the money? I need something that will take a moderate bay chop,<BR>
We have the Sugar Sand Tango with 175 Merc Sport Jet and we love it! It
handles so easy. The ride is great (a bit bouncy from the lookout and bow seat
though if over 25mph) We take it out on the Pacific and have had no problems
with it - lots of admirers at the dock. It's worth a test ride!
silv...@aol.com
In article <35992e14...@news.mindspring.com>,
I really find it interesting, that even on sea rays site, they don't have
this info any where, as they extol the range of the craft. I find that I use
about a half of a tank of gas my self albeit that my tank is bigger than
yours, so hence it is probably double the gas as I am feeding two engines
compared to one of yours, I also rarely go WOT for extended lengths out on
the ocean, cause we all know with a slight headwind, it's a bumpy ride, on
plane at about 40-45mph, I use about 1/2 throttle, at about 25-35 which is
what I use for skiing , I use 1/4 throttle, as the boat just yanks a large
person out of the water, so using my real world data of about a 8 hour day,
on the water , driving at all different speeds, some time 25-35, some time
the dreaded no wake, and some time WOT, I use about 20 gallons. therefore I
believe that we have close to the same range on each boat. It is only at WOT
that the boat (parden the french) really Sucks, but I suspect that your
sport jet Suck just as well. Pretty neat that designed these boats to be
Multi Tasking, They Suck and Blow at the same time. Given all of that, I
don't believe that your sport jet has much if any more range than my yamaha
exciter 270 since I use double your consumption on average, but I have double
the engines, double the accel, double the gas, Higher top end, and the
reliabilty of a second engine, as well as an accessible, clean out port in
case my boat sucks too hard, and eats a ski rope or other debris. So In
conclusion, We both love our boats, IMHO I think both boats are fine
choices,but I feel you are in error about the range of the PWC style Jet
Boats, compared to the sport Jets. As Far as reliability, I think Both are
fine engines, they both run 87 octane..... So please stop bashing and Give
the facts. I know you have a lot to offer, please keep on doing it, but
report the facts, not opinion, and vague measurements of GPH, reliability,
and maintenence, when you do not own or use a product
larry ... Has about the same Range.. different boat with a PWC engine
dennis
Most of the jet boats are too light and not enough of a v hull design.
This leads them to lift out of the water alot! However they are very
fun. I'm thinking of trading in my Cutter Craze 175 on a 98 OffShore
175. This boat is 17ft "cigerette" type boat. Its the only one I have
ever seen before of this design. It even has a very small cuddy cabin
in it. It is 17 1/2ft long and runs about 53mph. Thats a smidgen
slower than my craze however I think it going to handel the big waves
alot better - allowing faster overall performance. I can't find any web
page stuff either...I could find a number maybe though. They are built
in Canada I know. Owen Sound maybe...?
Larry
On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:51:29 GMT, silv...@aol.com wrote:
>exciter 270 since I use double your consumption on average, but I have double
>the engines, double the accel, double the gas, Higher top end, and the
>reliabilty of a second engine, as well as an accessible, clean out port in
>case my boat sucks too hard, and eats a ski rope or other debris. So In
>conclusion, We both love our boats, IMHO I think both boats are fine
>choices,but I feel you are in error about the range of the PWC style Jet
>Boats, compared to the sport Jets. As Far as reliability, I think Both are
>fine engines, they both run 87 octane..... So please stop bashing and Give
>the facts. I know you have a lot to offer, please keep on doing it, but
>report the facts, not opinion, and vague measurements of GPH, reliability,
>and maintenence, when you do not own or use a product
>
Your assumption that two 3-cyl engines is twice as much as one
6-cylinder engine is kinda "out", wouldn't you say? 3 + 3 = 6, even
in 1998. However, there IS a number problem to be reckoned with. The
Sport Jets are all rated in SHAFT HORSEPOWER, at the impeller. I read
a post, somewhere on here a year or two ago, where they got into the
usual brawl about shaft horsepower in SeaDoos (and other PWC). It
seemed the shaft horsepower of PWC engines was a good bit lower than
those stickers on the cowling. Maybe someone will read this post and
jog our memories or post the shaft horsepower ratings of the 1131cc
Yamaha. Don't you find it a little incredible that 2261cc in your
Exciter is 100 MORE horsepower than 2507cc in my Mercury Sport Jet??
I know you are turning another 1200 or so RPM, but 100 horsepower??!!
My cylinders are 3.501 bore x 2.650 stroke, by the way, running in
cast iron cylinders. I'm sure I'm losing a little power running a 12
amp alternator when the battery is charging. But, in spite of this,
the shaft horsepower is 175 at 5200 RPM, according to the service
manual. The 175 sport jet is a larger engine than the twin 135's in
the Exciter.
Do you know what the engines weigh, total?? The book here says the
powerhead of the V-6 weighs 205# and the all metal pump weighs 100#.
I think your twin engines and twin pumps actually weighs more,
explaining the extra weight of the Exciter over the Rayder, somewhat.
I'd still like to see the 175 sport jet sitting over a modified pump
cavity where the passengers ride on a big SeaDoo GTX. 305# is LOTS
less than the Seadoo 951 + pump weight + weight of 2 people! It'd be
an interesting, and blazingly fast PWC. If it can plane a 1200# boat
in 1 second, think what it would do to a PWC with the slower turning,
bigger impeller that didn't cavitate or leak air at all!
>
>
>
>larry ... Has about the same Range.. different boat with a PWC engine
>
I'd love to take a trip riding with someone in an Exciter with twin
1131cc Yamahas in it. That would be the only way we could tell whos
gas mileage was superior. This engine only has one little diaphram
pulse pump driving the 6 carbs. I'd like to run BOTH 1131's off one
Mikuni pump to see if it would run properly. Fuel pressure is 6-8psi
at WOT adn 2-3PSI at idle. None of that makes any difference to the
float carbs.
Speaking of carbs, I read with interest Harry's new webpages about the
carbs on the 951 Doos and the problems he has getting the carb
diaphram to feel feedback from the modified engines causing them to
have to change from the stock carbs. In the sport jet, it's called
the "Back Draft Circuit". There is a direct vent passage from special
ports just behind the PARTIALLY opened throttle plate that applies a
partial vacuum, depending on engine speed, and therefore loading, to
the air vent of the float bowls. At partial throttle settings, as the
load drops when she comes up to speed for cruising, this vacuum leans
out the fuel available to the low speed and main jets (all fuel in
these carbs, even low speed, go through the main jet in the bottom of
the bowl). The less load, the higher vacuum as speed increases
dropping the mixture accordingly. It's very smooth at this setting.
As the throttle plate opens further, this vacuum port feedback drops
and the backdraft circuit effect reduces feeding more fuel into it by
lowering the float bowl vent vacuum. It all works great. I've looked
at the plugs after idling around...brown. After cruising around at
3800 RPM...brown. After the old WOT for a mile then pull the
lanyard...brown. Seems they have it set just right at any speed!
Larry...Ask around for the shaft horsepower rating on those 1131's,
please? I'd really like a good comparison.
Larry
We2, tell us more about the fuel consumption of your Sugar Sands. You
and I have the same exact power plants. I'd sure like to hear if you
ever have a problem. I know of only one 175 here that has had
problems and that was an oil injection pump failure causing it to, of
course, seize. Mercury gave him a whole new engine, without any
question at all. Heard any more interesting 175 stories. The 90 was
awful, I understand. The 120 better, but not great. The 175 is a
true Mercury powerhead and rated first class by every Merc mechanic
I've talked to...a bunch of them.
Larry...Sea Rayder F16XR2 "SunSpot"
Larry
Yes, all the sport jetboats are very light and therefore very fast but
very bumpy in swells. My Sea Rayder will launch airborne over 3800
RPM on almost any boat wake...which is the fun of it. I is very
PWC-like in respect to riding on top of the waves, rather than through
it.
The deadrise on the Sea Rayder is 23 degrees/23 degrees with a long
reverse chine at either side to vertical sides. The reverse chines
perform as very long sponsons making high-G turns very abrupt and
level, without a lot of lean to unhook the centerline, recessed, pump
intake. I'm not sure how much more "deep Vee" from 23 degrees would
be good in a sport jetboat. I think other jetboats are flatter than
the Sea Rayder F16XR2. Somewhere, I think I read the SeaDoos are 17
degrees deadrise.
Larry...It IS a very hard, bumpy ride in heavy chop and waves...That's
the fun of it!
Christopher Davies
In article <359a7744...@news.mindspring.com>,
Larry <kn...@ITCsproing.com> wrote:
>intake. I'm not sure how much more "deep Vee" from 23 degrees would
>be good in a sport jetboat. I think other jetboats are flatter than
>the Sea Rayder F16XR2. Somewhere, I think I read the SeaDoos are 17
>degrees deadrise.
The Yamaha series are 18 degree deadrise.
WE2BANANAS
>tell us more about the fuel consumption of your Sugar Sands. Youand I have
>the same exact power plants. I'd sure like to hear if youever have a
>problem.
My Tango is still pretty new for a fair evaluation other than great initial
impressions.
LOA 16'6" ; 6 person capacity; Deadrise is 23 degrees. Top speed they say is 53
mph but I'll probably never go WOT. 0-30 mph in 3.4 secs. 35 MPH cruise fuel
efficiency is 4000 RPMS 7.25 GPH 4.8 MPG
One throttle and very quick reverse/stop which I did try at 25mph and two
passengers holding on tight. I threw it into reverse but not quick enough back
to neutral and the bow dipped causing a nice cool wall of water to soak us.
Very entertaining!
So far no problems at all with the boat. Looked at the Sea Rayder --also very
cool but happened to like certain options on the Tango and went for it instead.
Looking forward to the maddening crowds this weekend...Safe boating everybody!!
J. Pritchard II
Thanks for replying!
We do not fish, but may ski occassionally on it. We like that they are
fairly light and look rather easily trailerable. Plus, my fiance is
worried to death about manatees, and the jets keep them safe.
Thanks!
John
In article <6nb5pg$a5f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, silv...@aol.com says...
>
>In article <6n88kj$11oc$1...@news.gate.net>,
> ven...@gate.net (J. Pritchard II) wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>> Well, I guess I will be joining your farternity soon. My fiancee and
I
>> have decided to purchase a jet boat. What in your opinion is the
best
>> buy for the money? I need something that will take a moderate bay
chop,
Larry
On 2 Jul 1998 02:35:01 GMT, we2ba...@aol.com (WE2BANANAS) wrote:
>
>My Tango is still pretty new for a fair evaluation other than great initial
>impressions.
>LOA 16'6" ; 6 person capacity; Deadrise is 23 degrees. Top speed they say is 53
>mph but I'll probably never go WOT. 0-30 mph in 3.4 secs. 35 MPH cruise fuel
>efficiency is 4000 RPMS 7.25 GPH 4.8 MPG
>One throttle and very quick reverse/stop which I did try at 25mph and two
>passengers holding on tight. I threw it into reverse but not quick enough back
>to neutral and the bow dipped causing a nice cool wall of water to soak us.
>Very entertaining!
>So far no problems at all with the boat. Looked at the Sea Rayder --also very
>cool but happened to like certain options on the Tango and went for it instead.
>Looking forward to the maddening crowds this weekend...Safe boating everybody!!
My fuel economy echos yours. I've tinkered around plotting tach
readings against distance out to the beach. I run the route about
every weekend. My lowest fuel consumption to the beach seems to be
around 4300 RPM, about 35-39mph depending on conditions. If I'm
loaded with 3 aboard and all their beach junk, 4100 at 30 is a better
setting. I got one beach run that plotted at 4.8mpg on a smooth
weekend with just me and my beach junk. Below 4000 RPM, tilting off
plane, mileage drops pretty fast. Above 4800, of course, it drops
rapidly, too. You're right, this IS too much engine to run around WOT
for very long....But isn't it NICE to just let 'er rip once in a
while, tossing fuel mileage to hell!
Larry
Have a nice, safe weekend.
Larry
On 2 Jul 1998 15:40:41 GMT, ven...@gate.net (J. Pritchard II) wrote:
>Thanks for replying!
>We do not fish, but may ski occassionally on it. We like that they are
>fairly light and look rather easily trailerable. Plus, my fiance is
>worried to death about manatees, and the jets keep them safe.
>
>Thanks!
>John
>
Your manatees will LOVE the Sport Jet's RECESSED intake, John. They
are very easily trailered, even in a stiff cross-current when the tide
is running here. I think you'll love it.
Larry...Sea Rayder F16XR2...