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Net neutrality

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MNMikeW

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Dec 14, 2017, 3:49:34 PM12/14/17
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Well, after tax reform kills millions upon millions of people, looks
like net neutrality is going to finish the rest of us off.

The media hysteria is hilarious.

MNMikeW

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Dec 14, 2017, 3:52:04 PM12/14/17
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Good God.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5180015/Protesters-gather-U-S-regulators-meet-end-net-neutrality.html


Alan Baker

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Dec 14, 2017, 3:53:52 PM12/14/17
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Do you know the slightest bit about this subject, Mikey?

Dene

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Dec 14, 2017, 3:59:54 PM12/14/17
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That is nuts but I don't see any useful purpose in eliminating net neutrality...do you?

Alan Baker

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:01:21 PM12/14/17
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I can see lots of purposes...

...if you're in bed with huge corporations that want to find more ways
to extract money from their customers.

:-)

MNMikeW

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:07:22 PM12/14/17
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The internet was not broken prior to 2015, so keeping it has no useful
purpose either.

Alan Baker

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:10:53 PM12/14/17
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So that's your best rationale?

Learn a little history first, Mikey.

Dene

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:28:12 PM12/14/17
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So...it was nothing more than a hyper-vigilant regulation from Prez O.
Figures.

Alan Baker

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:34:35 PM12/14/17
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So you didn't bother doing the slightest bit of research either...

Dene

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:44:26 PM12/14/17
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On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 12:52:04 PM UTC-8, MNMikeW wrote:
Dang amusing watching the RAT trying to bait you. IT should count his lucky stars that BK is talking to IT....as a conduit.

Alan Baker

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:48:16 PM12/14/17
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And you—naturally—aren't responding to me in ANY way...

:-)

Alan Baker

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:52:06 PM12/14/17
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On 2017-12-14 12:49 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
Educate yourself:

<https://www.wired.com/story/net-neutrality-fight-wired-guide/>

MNMikeW

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:55:29 PM12/14/17
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Who? :-)

MNMikeW

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:56:01 PM12/14/17
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Micro-managing at its finest.

Alan Baker

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Dec 14, 2017, 4:59:23 PM12/14/17
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No, actually.

-hh

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Dec 14, 2017, 5:02:06 PM12/14/17
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Nope.

The simple reality is that ISP's functionally became utility
companies over a decade ago. That's why we don't pragmatically
differentiate Verizon from Comcast (etc) based on what parts of
the Internet they offer (or not).

The ISP's resisted formal reclassification to that status - which
is not only allowed in accordance with Public Law, but is pretty
much called for by definitions of service. The basic reason why
they resisted is less upside for higher profits with stronger
accountability to the public.

And FYI, utilities are so regulated because they are natural
monopolies which carries a very high risk of eventual abuse of
monopoly (and duopoly) power...which is illegal.


-hh

B...@onramp.net

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Dec 14, 2017, 8:56:00 PM12/14/17
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Keeping it guarantees that the large IS

Carbon

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Dec 14, 2017, 8:56:58 PM12/14/17
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Things don't become untrue if you're too dumb to understand them.

Carbon

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Dec 14, 2017, 9:02:21 PM12/14/17
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The suckers who support Trump have no idea what Net Neutrality is and have no idea that they've just been screwed. I'd laugh at their utter cluelessness but unfortunately this sell-out affects me as well.

Carbon

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Dec 14, 2017, 10:33:28 PM12/14/17
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We are going to get screwed in other ways of course, but here's a taste for the suckers:

In Portugal, with no net neutrality, internet providers are starting to split the net into packages...

https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/923701871092441088/photo/1

B...@onramp.net

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Dec 14, 2017, 10:40:41 PM12/14/17
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On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:07:20 -0600, MNMikeW <mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:

Keeping it guarantees that the major ISPs can't dictate what is shown
who can view it and what they can charge for different levels.

DumbedDownUSA

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Dec 15, 2017, 1:40:25 AM12/15/17
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If you don't understand something don't simply attack it... it makes
you look scared and ignorant... a look you can hardly deny.

--
Trump ***Irresponsible, unprofessional and sending the wrong message.***

DumbedDownUSA

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Dec 15, 2017, 1:42:52 AM12/15/17
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He's certainly reading all your posts... looks like filters were too
complicated for him... or perhaps he's sacred of the dark...

Alan Baker

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Dec 15, 2017, 1:50:26 AM12/15/17
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It's great!

He reveals exactly the kind of person he is.

:-)

DumbedDownUSA

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Dec 15, 2017, 5:28:54 AM12/15/17
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It's no good telling someone who can only learn by his mistakes.
Mikey's motto might be "in hindsight, everyone else was right".

His daddy didn't believe in preventative measures and neither does he.

Dene

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Dec 15, 2017, 11:05:50 AM12/15/17
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There is a lot of competition among internet providers....correct? So if one starts to play that game, would they not lose a lot of subscribers in the process? Honest competition keeps competing companies honest. You don't always need big brother to enforce this principle.

Another scenario. Say I'm paying $70/mo. for my internet access but they approach me with a $40/mo. package that limits streaming video. Personally I would take it. Something wrong with that?

DumbedDownUSA

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Dec 15, 2017, 1:18:29 PM12/15/17
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Is this childlike naivity or do you think Greg really can't think of an
example of groups of companies taking a direction which is counter to
their consumers interests.

Fox severely limits and adjusts the content that he watches but he
still watches. Can he really not imagine an ISP doing something similar.

> Another scenario. Say I'm paying $70/mo. for my internet access but
> they approach me with a $40/mo. package that limits streaming video.
> Personally I would take it. Something wrong with that?

No. Does it have anything to do with "net neutrality"?

Has Greg nothing to say that a little education on the subject wouldn't
ridicule.

Alan Baker

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Dec 15, 2017, 1:26:59 PM12/15/17
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On 2017-12-15 8:05 AM, Dene wrote:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 7:33:28 PM UTC-8, Carbon wrote:
>> On 12/14/2017 09:02 PM, Carbon wrote:
>>> On 12/14/2017 04:52 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2017-12-14 12:49 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, after tax reform kills millions upon millions of
>>>>> people, looks like net neutrality is going to finish the rest
>>>>> of us off.
>>>>>
>>>>> The media hysteria is hilarious.
>>>>
>>>> Educate yourself:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.wired.com/story/net-neutrality-fight-wired-guide/>
>>>
>>>>
>>> The suckers who support Trump have no idea what Net Neutrality is
>>> and have no idea that they've just been screwed. I'd laugh at
>>> their utter cluelessness but unfortunately this sell-out affects
>>> me as well.
>>
>>
>> We are going to get screwed in other ways of course, but here's a
>> taste for the suckers:
>>
>> In Portugal, with no net neutrality, internet providers are
>> starting to split the net into packages...
>>
>> https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/923701871092441088/photo/1
>
> There is a lot of competition among internet providers....correct?

No. Absolutely incorrect.

> So if one starts to play that game, would they not lose a lot of
> subscribers in the process? Honest competition keeps competing
> companies honest. You don't always need big brother to enforce this
> principle.

But there isn't "honest competition", Weaselboy.

Alan Baker

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Dec 15, 2017, 1:47:53 PM12/15/17
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On 2017-12-15 8:05 AM, Dene wrote:
I realize that Mikey will hate the source... ...but that's his problem:

<https://boingboing.net/2017/12/15/comcast-has-been-planning-to-d.html>

And here are the versions of the pledge:

April 25, 2017

<https://web.archive.org/web/20170425174047/http://corporate.comcast.com/openinternet/open-net-neutrality>

Then on April 27, 2015 (one day after Ajit Pai announces the vote on net
neutrality).

<https://web.archive.org/web/20170427124424/http://corporate.comcast.com/openinternet/open-net-neutrality>

Carbon

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Dec 15, 2017, 7:16:26 PM12/15/17
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On 12/15/2017 11:05 AM, Dene wrote:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 7:33:28 PM UTC-8, Carbon wrote:
>> On 12/14/2017 09:02 PM, Carbon wrote:
>>> On 12/14/2017 04:52 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2017-12-14 12:49 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, after tax reform kills millions upon millions of people, looks
>>>>> like net neutrality is going to finish the rest of us off.
>>>>>
>>>>> The media hysteria is hilarious.
>>>>
>>>> Educate yourself:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.wired.com/story/net-neutrality-fight-wired-guide/>
>>>
>>> The suckers who support Trump have no idea what Net Neutrality is and have no idea that they've just been screwed. I'd laugh at their utter cluelessness but unfortunately this sell-out affects me as well.
>>
>>
>> We are going to get screwed in other ways of course, but here's a taste for the suckers:
>>
>> In Portugal, with no net neutrality, internet providers are starting to split the net into packages...
>>
>> https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/923701871092441088/photo/1
>
> There is a lot of competition among internet providers....correct?

No. There really isn't.

> So if one starts to play that game, would they not lose a lot of subscribers in the process?

See above. The big ISPs are going to abuse this new power every way they can. New ISP with lower prices? Turn off the taps. Then once you run off all the competition you can really put the screws to your customers. Not that you aren't already selling bucketloads of information about their customers without their knowledge or consent.

> Honest competition keeps competing companies honest.

But price-fixing is so much more profitable.

> You don't always need big brother to enforce this principle.

I'm impressed by how often we get to relearn the necessity of anti-trust legislation.

> Another scenario. Say I'm paying $70/mo. for my internet access but they approach me with a $40/mo. package that limits streaming video. Personally I would take it. Something wrong with that?

Only if you think your electric company should be able to charge different rates for stove power, fridge power, tv power...


Dene

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Dec 16, 2017, 12:13:40 AM12/16/17
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Good points.
Thank you!

DumbedDownUSA

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Dec 16, 2017, 4:38:05 AM12/16/17
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MNMikeW wrote:

> Well, after tax reform kills millions upon millions of people, looks
> like net neutrality is going to finish the rest of us off.
>
> The media hysteria is hilarious.

This is a bi-partisan measure that has been repealed. 75% of
Republicans are for net neutrality ( dems and independents are both
nearer 90%) meaning only the exrtremist Trumpets that feel they must
back everything the party do lack the intelligence to understand this
and contemplate the consequences before forming their opinion.

At least if a vote is forced in the houses consumers will get to see
who is acting in their interests. Such information should be useful to
them next year.

Carbon

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Dec 19, 2017, 10:45:13 PM12/19/17
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Why, I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...

"At least three major ISPs have already announced significant price hikes for 2018. News of the increases come just days after the FCC voted to roll back net neutrality protections."

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/12/19/comcast-cox-frontier-net-neutrality/

Silvio

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Dec 20, 2017, 1:03:25 AM12/20/17
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Don't forget prioritization. ISPs may choose to make Whatsapp and
Facebook a lot faster than Telegram, Instagram and Google+, just because
of some hidden advantage for themselves.

Don't forget user tagging. ISPs not only may but surely will use your
Internet behavior to profile you. They will either sell your identity to
any plausible bidder or start offering spam (excuse me, I meant content
personalization) services to the same parties.

Don't forget the list goes on and on. The argument that we did not need
net neutrality in the past is a moronically stupid argument. We did not
need seat belts before cars where invented, no virus scanners prior to
the appearance of computer viruses and not even bread slicers before the
invention of bread.
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