Griese's suspension
Jim Gysin
If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
What about other ethnic or cultural groups? I'm German, and I wouldn't
be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere. And I doubt that
too many people would get upset if Griese had been referring to an
Italian and spaghetti. But even I admit that I would have had a WTF
moment if he'd referred to a black person and, say, watermelon. As
such, why the apparent double standard of my own?
So what's acceptable, and what's not? It is based on race? Ethnicity?
Location? The quality of the food in question?
Maybe I'm just an insensitive jerk (go figure), but I would have just
chuckled if I'd heard Griese say what he said live, and I would have
thought of it as nothing more than an allusion to a food that Hispanics
often enjoy. I would not have thought that it was offensive or
derogatory in the least. But then I get back to blacks and foods that
they typically enjoy and I start to cringe again at the possibilities.
What are your own thoughts on any of these ramblings? First and
foremost, would *you* have made the call to suspend Griese?
--
Jim Gysin
Waukesha, WI
Cyclone Ranger
> What are your own thoughts on any of these ramblings? First and
> foremost, would *you* have made the call to suspend Griese?
Never miss an opportunity to keep one's mouth shut. Even though he's
paid to talk.
I blame this 'happy talk', never-a-second-of-dead-air announcing style
that's in vogue. You're supposed to talktalktalk, but sooner or later
you run out of relevant things to say and here we go.
Dennis J
crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's
scrambled his molecules...
hey, I'm not racist, but uhm occasionally in the back of my head head
I hear an Ad for Beano go through my head when people want a
translator...
"if ya can't speak Spanish, Get BEANO!!!"
too damn sensative these days.... I'm gonna don some Lederhosen and
simmer some Sausage in beer, and grab a jar of sourKraut now...
--
"the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now,
They're destroying our political process." -- Jesse Ventura
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.
sam
jimg...@geemail.com says...
>
> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
> What about other ethnic or cultural groups? I'm German, and I wouldn't
> be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
> fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere.
Or committing a holocaust.
s
shiite
The Germans and Italians haven't done as good a job at promoting their
ethnic victimship as their darker pigmented brethren.
OTOH, Griese's comment was made in ignorance. Montoya is a native of
Colombia, and Colombians don't eat tacos. Griese should have said,
"He's out snorting a line of coke."
Zaphod Beeblebrox
10/29/2009 6:03 PM???
>
> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
Montoya is Colombian. I've been to Colombia, and believe me - a pasty
white New Englander eats more tacos than a Colombian...
>
> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
> What about other ethnic or cultural groups? I'm German, and I wouldn't
> be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
> fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere. And I doubt that
> too many people would get upset if Griese had been referring to an
> Italian and spaghetti. But even I admit that I would have had a WTF
> moment if he'd referred to a black person and, say, watermelon. As
> such, why the apparent double standard of my own?
>
> So what's acceptable, and what's not? It is based on race? Ethnicity?
> Location? The quality of the food in question?
>
> Maybe I'm just an insensitive jerk (go figure), but I would have just
> chuckled if I'd heard Griese say what he said live, and I would have
> thought of it as nothing more than an allusion to a food that Hispanics
> often enjoy. I would not have thought that it was offensive or
> derogatory in the least. But then I get back to blacks and foods that
> they typically enjoy and I start to cringe again at the possibilities.
>
> What are your own thoughts on any of these ramblings? First and
> foremost, would *you* have made the call to suspend Griese?
>
No. There's no law against being a moron...
BillyZoom
I don't think it was anything. I really think it's an over-sensitivity
in the United States. Montoya is from Formula One. They face far worse
treatment from commentators, teammates, fans. Hell, they eat their
own. I think it's the international nature of the sport that leads to
the extreme bluntness. They call each other queers, insult each
other's wives, make fun of so and so being a drunk. Fans dress up like
gorillas and taunt the first black World Champion (of REAL racing, by
the way), saying they are his ancestors. Teeth are gnashed, but
nothing really happens. Even in the US, F1 commentator David Hobbs
says some questionable things. Nobody thinks much of it. I don't know
if it's right, but it's sports. This bluntness in international
situations spills into professional situations, which I find a little
disturbing. I think a lot of it stems from having to be blunt because
we don't have a mastery of each others' languages. But when I have to
deal with a Pakistani consultant who is openly hostile to an Indian
conasultant, I don't appreciate it. I've always found Russian IT
professionals to be VERY blunt, but not to the point of being
abusive.
Gee, did I really have a point? Oh well.
jdtiger
> In article <hcd3fd$lu...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> jimgy...@geemail.com says...
>
>
>
> > If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
> > racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
> > somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
> > Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
> > What about other ethnic or cultural groups? I'm German, and I wouldn't
> > be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
> > fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere.
>
> Or committing a holocaust.
>
> s
It's more the assumption that a guy with a hispanic sounding name is
messican.
SG
> Disculpa Senora Jim Gysin, pero did you really mime the following on
> 10/29/2009 6:03 PM???
>>
>> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
>> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
>> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
> Montoya is Colombian. I've been to Colombia, and believe me - a pasty
> white New Englander eats more tacos than a Colombian...
>
>>
he had tacos for lunch today according to his tweets
John Rogers
animal.
>
>If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
>racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
>somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
>Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
>What about other ethnic or cultural groups?
In today's atmosphere? Absolutely.
But damn if I didn't laugh my ass off when I read about it.
John M. Rogers
AU Class of 1985
The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
Dan Bretta
> Hey, Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com>... keep the change, you filthy
> animal.
>
>
>
> >If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
> >racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
> >somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
> >Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
> >What about other ethnic or cultural groups?
>
> In today's atmosphere? Absolutely.
>
> But damn if I didn't laugh my ass off when I read about it.
>
offensive. I didn't even think about it until I read that he was
being suspended...but then again I am not intelligent enough to be
offended.
Dan
Jim Brown
Never in the history of the world has a Colombian eaten a taco?
Jim Gysin
Cyclone Ranger sent the following on 10/29/2009 5:08 PM:
> On Oct 29, 5:03 pm, Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> What are your own thoughts on any of these ramblings? First and
>> foremost, would *you* have made the call to suspend Griese?
>
>
> Never miss an opportunity to keep one's mouth shut. Even though he's
> paid to talk.
Good advice, but I still don't think that it warranted a suspension.
> I blame this 'happy talk', never-a-second-of-dead-air announcing style
> that's in vogue. You're supposed to talktalktalk, but sooner or later
> you run out of relevant things to say and here we go.
Yep.
Jim Gysin
Dennis J sent the following on 10/29/2009 5:11 PM:
I demand that RSFC suspend you *immediately* for this blatant hatred and
phobia of the good people of Germany and German ancestry. Bass turd.
Jim Gysin
sam sent the following on 10/29/2009 5:21 PM:
Even though that rises to a different level than food choices, I still
wouldn't be offended, myself, as I'd still be reasonably certain that he
was only making a joke. And I certainly wouldn't want to see him
suspended over it.
Jim Gysin
shiite sent the following on 10/29/2009 6:20 PM:
Works for me!
Jim Gysin
Zaphod Beeblebrox sent the following on 10/29/2009 6:57 PM:
My thinking exactly. Although ignorance of the heritage of a racecar
driver named Montoya isn't a sign of a moron, IMO; it's just a sign of
being ignorant of F1 racing to some extent.
Jim Gysin
jdtiger sent the following on 10/29/2009 7:07 PM:
But really, should that offend anyone enough to justify suspending the guy?
Jim Gysin
John Rogers sent the following on 10/29/2009 7:20 PM:
> Hey, Jim Gysin <jimg...@geemail.com>... keep the change, you filthy
> animal.
>
>> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
>> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
>> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>>
>> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
>> What about other ethnic or cultural groups?
>
> In today's atmosphere? Absolutely.
>
> But damn if I didn't laugh my ass off when I read about it.
I did, too. But then I read later that he'd been suspended (he had
already apologized earlier) and I was depressed that we *might* be
turning into a society that rewards the over-sensitive types and those
who do the best job of whining and claiming victimhood. And if we
reward it, then some people are gonna start finding it everywhere they
look, for self-serving reasons.
Anthony Summers
That's one major difference between the culture here and the culture
back home. Here, if someone makes a stupid racist comment, they're
pilloried in the media or on the comedy panel shows... with the degree
of burning generally directly related to the degree of bigotry in the
comment. It works well, I think.
--
A. Summers || summerstorm0007-->at<--yahoo.com
Jim Gysin
Dan Bretta sent the following on 10/29/2009 7:27 PM:
Yeah, that was kinda my thought, too--until I began to ask myself why
I'd react differently if it had been a black driver and a food that
blacks like. And I still don't have an acceptable answer for myself.
BillyZoom
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you a Formula One fan or, well, yes I know you are a football
(proper football) fan? I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on
this. I kind of like the "popular opinion" form of punishment rather
than the knee-jerk suspension route. If everyone heard the Montoya
comment and laughed and (hypothetically) Montoya laughed - no harm, no
foul I think. If Jay Leno (oy!) makes a joke, aren't we still safe
from the terrorists?
Anthony Summers
> I did, too. But then I read later that he'd been suspended (he had
> already apologized earlier) and I was depressed that we *might* be
> turning into a society that rewards the over-sensitive types and those
> who do the best job of whining and claiming victimhood.
Turning?!
America's been a victim-status-seeking society for at least 15 years.
Anthony Summers
> > That's one major difference between the culture here and the culture
> > back home. Here, if someone makes a stupid racist comment, they're
> > pilloried in the media or on the comedy panel shows... with the degree
> > of burning generally directly related to the degree of bigotry in the
> > comment. It works well, I think.
> Are you a Formula One fan or, well, yes I know you are a football
> (proper football) fan? I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on
> this. I kind of like the "popular opinion" form of punishment rather
> than the knee-jerk suspension route. If everyone heard the Montoya
> comment and laughed and (hypothetically) Montoya laughed - no harm, no
> foul I think. If Jay Leno (oy!) makes a joke, aren't we still safe
> from the terrorists?
I'm not an F1 fan, though I did enjoy hearing about Max Mosley on Mock
the Week, Argumental, Have I Got News For You, etc.
Dan Bretta
player in the game or something like that it wouldn't have escaped my
psyche....I suppose the Taco comment shouldn't have escaped like it
did, but I distinctly remember him saying it and not even giving it a
second thought.
Dan
Dan Bretta
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:44:37 -0500, Jim Gysin wrote...
> > I did, too. But then I read later that he'd been suspended (he had
> > already apologized earlier) and I was depressed that we *might* be
> > turning into a society that rewards the over-sensitive types and those
> > who do the best job of whining and claiming victimhood.
>
> Turning?!
>
> America's been a victim-status-seeking society for at least 15 years.
>
Dan
BillyZoom
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, that's a little tough, I think just because of our national
history. But how much of that is that just conditioned? When you say a
black person likes fried chicken, how many black people are really
offended? And, of them, how many are just being offended because it's
"something to be offended about"? I think our media has done a lot to
shut down our recognition of what differences people like. Perhaps
when all the blatant racists have strokes and die ("Hi honey, uhhhh
Drrrg Drrrg Drrrg" PLOP), we can be a little more reasonable.
sam
jimg...@geemail.com says...
Not really. What offends one person might not offend another.
If you're bald and overweight, a co-worker might make jokes about
both all day. Some might laugh it off; some might be offended.
You have set yourself up as the judge of who should be offended by
what. That's Mia-level narcissism.
What right wingers sometimes think is that being uncivil to
minories, women, or other ethnic groups is not only an
expression of free speech (it is) but somehow an act of courage.
They might as well say the same for the guy who gives you crap
all day about your head and your gut, or your wife's infirmity,
or your children's failures, or your income. Whatever. It's rude
and uncivil; it's not courageous.
If a newscaster is rude and uncivil about any issue (not just race
or gender) they might be suspended. The network responds to
its viewership and ultimately to money.
s
BillyZoom
Okay, now that's some funny stuff! Americans have no idea what kind of
fucked up shit they miss.
Anthony Summers
Mock the Week is the funniest show on television, and it's not close.
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Not really - if you automatically assume that a furriner named Montoya
or Jimenez or Vallejo or _________ (insert favorite Latin American
sounding name here) eats tacos, that definitely makes you a moron.
Jim Gysin
Anthony Summers sent the following on 10/29/2009 7:54 PM:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:44:37 -0500, Jim Gysin wrote...
>
>> I did, too. But then I read later that he'd been suspended (he had
>> already apologized earlier) and I was depressed that we *might* be
>> turning into a society that rewards the over-sensitive types and those
>> who do the best job of whining and claiming victimhood.
>
> Turning?!
>
> America's been a victim-status-seeking society for at least 15 years.
Fair point, but the success rate (in terms of rewards) of the "victims"
seems to be off-the-charts these days.
Anthony Summers
How long ago was the infamous McDonald's coffee case?
Jim Gysin
Anthony Summers sent the following on 10/29/2009 8:52 PM:
I'm not saying that they didn't happen in the past, because they
obviously did. But it seemed like more failed than succeeded, and yeah,
I can see a legitimate argument about the Stella case being a turning
point. And it just keeps gathering steam, no pun intended.
Anthony Summers
Indeed. I wasn't sure when the lawsuit was, so I looked it up... was in
1994 (15 years ago).
Tom Enright
wrote:
> Disculpa Senora Jim Gysin, pero did you really mime the following on
> 10/29/2009 6:03 PM???
>
>
>
> > If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
> > racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
> > somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
> Montoya is Colombian. I've been to Colombia, and believe me - a pasty
> white New Englander eats more tacos than a Colombian...
It's a cultural thing. Europeans generally eat the taco a bit more
than other cultures.
-Tom Enright
shiite
wrote:
But a harmless moron(as in not worthy of suspension), don't you think?
Tom Enright
> I was watching it live and it didn't really register with me as
> offensive. I didn't even think about it until I read that he was
> being suspended...but then again I am not intelligent enough to be
> offended.
That's because you don't get it. Griese was actually making the joke
about himself.
-Tom Enright
> Dan
shiite
> In article <hcdcgq$oo...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> jimgy...@geemail.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > sam sent the following on 10/29/2009 5:21 PM:
> > > jimgy...@geemail.com says...
Given nothing but a sportscaster's comment about a driver, a tortilla,
and a chunk of meat, you extrapolated baldness, obesity, minorities,
women, our wives' infirmities, our children's failures, our incomes,
and Mia. You overcame the odds and scaled the mountain. You summoned
bravery and entered the cave. You risked it all and slew the dragon.
Let me be the first rude and uncivil right winger to commend and thank
you for your extraordinary courage.
sam
9a0728...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, uncd...@gmail.com says...
Incivility is incivility. Think about it.
You're welcome.
s
Jim Gysin
Anthony Summers sent the following on 10/29/2009 9:47 PM:
That sounds about right, seeing as how I recall that my own work at the
time involved a lot of driving to various places, along with plenty of
coffee stops along the way.
Anthony Summers
> >> I can see a legitimate argument about the Stella case being a turning
> >> point. And it just keeps gathering steam, no pun intended.
> >
> > Indeed. I wasn't sure when the lawsuit was, so I looked it up... was in
> > 1994 (15 years ago).
>
> That sounds about right, seeing as how I recall that my own work at the
> time involved a lot of driving to various places, along with plenty of
> coffee stops along the way.
They ended up settling out of court for under $600K (she'd won $2.7M in
court, which was then reduced significantly on appeal).
shiite
> In article <643ed4d0-f407-4c57-be89-
> 9a07285a8...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, uncdoo...@gmail.com says...
I thought about it. I didn't hear incivility in Griese's remarks.
Neither did Juan Pablo Montoya, the alleged victim of Griese's
"insensitivity," when Griese's comments were relayed to him. I DID
see it in your remarks about incivility being thought of as courage by
right wingers. Got another whiff of it in your Mia/narcissism
remarks. You apparently don't value the standards that you hold
others to enough to live up to them yourself. Hypocrisy is
hypocrisy. Give it some thought.
sam
@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, uncd...@gmail.com says...
It's Mia-level narcissim to think you can decide what is uncivil
for others. It doesn't matter what YOU hear in Griese's words. It
doesn't even matter what Montoya thinks about Griese's words. He
doesn't get to decide for all Latinos what's uncivil.
Just because someone says they don't mind you calling their mother
the worst kind of sleep-around doesn't meant that they can call your
mother that. Correct?
Think about it. It'll take a little (very little) logic.
No need to thank me. You're welcome.
s
lein
> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
> What about other ethnic or cultural groups? I'm German, and I wouldn't
> be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
> too many people would get upset if Griese had been referring to an
> Italian and spaghetti. But even I admit that I would have had a WTF
> moment if he'd referred to a black person and, say, watermelon. As
> such, why the apparent double standard of my own?
>
> So what's acceptable, and what's not? It is based on race? Ethnicity?
> Location? The quality of the food in question?
Makes me wonder about the occasional crack announcers make about
Paterno, going home after the game to a pasta dinner.
shiite
> In article <f1fe38ab-ca22-4e68-9937-f8a9a250e832
> @s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, uncdoo...@gmail.com says...
Look in the mirror and repeat those words. It might sink in that you
are the narcissist, attempting to define civility for everyone else.
>It doesn't matter what YOU hear in Griese's words. It
> doesn't even matter what Montoya thinks about Griese's words. He
> doesn't get to decide for all Latinos what's uncivil.
I understand now. You get to decide.
> Just because someone says they don't mind you calling their mother
> the worst kind of sleep-around doesn't meant that they can call your
> mother that. Correct?
Stoopid and dishonest. The Griese incident is light years away from
that
>Think about it. It'll take a little (very little) logic.
Apparently.
I'm waiting for an explanation of your insight into rude incivility
being regarded as courageous by right wingers. And what if I find that
offensive? In your world, that makes it wrong, right?
Jim Gysin
lein sent the following on 10/29/2009 11:36 PM:
Exactly. Is it enough that Paterno apparently has no problem with it,
or should announcers be suspended if anyone *else* out there *might* be
offended?
Jim Gysin
sam sent the following on 10/29/2009 11:12 PM:
FWIW, I'm unaware of *anyone* actually claiming to be offended, let
alone offended to the point where they wanted Griese suspended,
including (apparently) the "target" of the joke. Instead, it's as if
the network opted to be proactive in their damage control, and in the
process, they've perhaps given some people ideas that they wouldn't have
otherwise had for a time when a future opportunity to be "offended"
presents itself.
> It doesn't matter what YOU hear in Griese's words. It
> doesn't even matter what Montoya thinks about Griese's words. He
> doesn't get to decide for all Latinos what's uncivil.
Where do you draw the line? If, say, 10% of the population took offense
in this instance, would it be better for us as a mation to ask 90% of
the people to find a way to be more sensitive, or would it be better for
society as a whole if the 10% were told to get over themselves and their
own thin skins so that 90% of their countrymen don't get paranoid about
offending anyone?
Again, I'm unaware of *anyone* complaining about his comment before the
network itself made an issue of it, much less the majority of Americans,
much less even 10% of the subset of people who were actually watching
the telecast and listening to Griese's words. As such, I think it's a
fair question to ask.
> Just because someone says they don't mind you calling their mother
> the worst kind of sleep-around doesn't meant that they can call your
> mother that. Correct?
You really think that that's comparable to making an innocuous joke
about a common food item known to be enjoyed by many, many Hispanics?
Again, if it were pasta aimed at an Italian, would you be defending
offended Italians right now? Or a German and a bratwurst? It just
seems to me that there are times when the few need to be told to stop
taking themselves so seriously, as opposed to demanding that the many
stop having a harmless (to 90% of the people) sense of humor.
Jim Gysin
Dan Bretta sent the following on 10/29/2009 8:02 PM:
If nothing else, it would seem that we're both conditioned to be more
sensitive to offending blacks than we are to offending Hispanics, but
I'm not really sure why that would be the case.
Jim Gysin
BillyZoom sent the following on 10/29/2009 8:06 PM:
And to the extent that it *is* conditioning, especially if it's
conditioning applied preferentially to certain groups more so than to
others, is that something that's worth examining more closely as a nation?
> When you say a
> black person likes fried chicken, how many black people are really
> offended?
Good question. I'm not black, so I don't know and can't begin to guess,
but I would worry about the ones that *might* be offended, even as part
of me realizes that many blacks would probably not take themselves too
seriously and would just say something like, "Yeah, you're right. I
*do* like my fried chicken." And as long as it was just a fun jab at
their dietary preferences and not some sort of backhanded and deeper
insult, that's the way they *should* respond, if they really do enjoy
chicken. Ditto Hispanics and tacos, IMO. Despite the Colombian bit.
Again, a big part of this for me is the fact that I've always found Bob
Griese to be a gentleman of the highest order, and one who has never had
a reputation of racism attached to him in the past.
> And, of them, how many are just being offended because it's
> "something to be offended about"?
Yep. And again, the network did this before anyone actually registered
a complaint, IIRC. There certainly wasn't any mass outcry and march on
the network's headquarters, or any such thing. Is this really the sort
of precedent or the sort of chilling environment we want to have: one
where people can't even make a harmless and innocent comment about a
food item? I dunno.
> I think our media has done a lot to
> shut down our recognition of what differences people like. Perhaps
> when all the blatant racists have strokes and die ("Hi honey, uhhhh
> Drrrg Drrrg Drrrg" PLOP), we can be a little more reasonable.
There's a lot of truth to this, even though I've little doubt that it
will be a long time before *all* of the genuine racists (as opposed to
those who innocently think that no one will get offended at the mention
of a taco) are gone from the scene.
Jim Gysin
sam sent the following on 10/29/2009 8:06 PM:
> In article <hcdcgq$oo9$6...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> jimg...@geemail.com says...
>> sam sent the following on 10/29/2009 5:21 PM:
>>> In article <hcd3fd$luu$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> jimg...@geemail.com says...
>>>> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
>>>> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
>>>> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>>>>
>>>> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
>>>> What about other ethnic or cultural groups? I'm German, and I wouldn't
>>>> be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
>>>> fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere.
>>> Or committing a holocaust.
>> Even though that rises to a different level than food choices, I still
>> wouldn't be offended, myself, as I'd still be reasonably certain that he
>> was only making a joke. And I certainly wouldn't want to see him
>> suspended over it.
>
> Not really. What offends one person might not offend another.
> If you're bald and overweight, a co-worker might make jokes about
> both all day. Some might laugh it off; some might be offended.
Again, do you honestly think that this is a fair comparison?
> You have set yourself up as the judge of who should be offended by
> what. That's Mia-level narcissism.
In this context, I'm merely pointing out that few, if any people, had
gone on record as being offended, and certainly none who claimed to have
been so offended as to justify a suspension in addition to the apology
that Griese had already issued.
> What right wingers sometimes think is that being uncivil to
> minories, women, or other ethnic groups is not only an
> expression of free speech (it is) but somehow an act of courage.
When did this become a right wing issue, exactly? Feel free to attempt
to hijack the thread, but don't expect me to play along.
> They might as well say the same for the guy who gives you crap
> all day about your head and your gut, or your wife's infirmity,
> or your children's failures, or your income. Whatever. It's rude
> and uncivil; it's not courageous.
>
> If a newscaster is rude and uncivil about any issue (not just race
> or gender) they might be suspended. The network responds to
> its viewership and ultimately to money.
So your position is that Griese was rude and uncivil here? I guess I'll
just put you in the category of the vast minority, then, if the actual
amount of national outcry is any indicator. Either that, or--if you're
actually in the vast majority with your sensibilities here--the vast
majority chose to be oddly silent about this one.
Jim Gysin
Zaphod Beeblebrox sent the following on 10/29/2009 8:38 PM:
We're gonna have to just agree to disagree on what crosses the line from
ignorant to moronic, I guess.
Jim Gysin
shiite sent the following on 10/29/2009 10:25 PM:
Heh. I'm that I'm not the only one who thought that there just *might*
be a bit of a lack of proportionality in his response.
Jim Gysin
Anthony Summers sent the following on 10/29/2009 11:00 PM:
When will Huck chime in, I wonder? I seem to recall him going postal on
the subject at least once in the past...
Dennis J
crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's
scrambled his molecules...
>
>Dennis J sent the following on 10/29/2009 5:11 PM:
>> hey, Jim Gysin <jimg...@geemail.com>'s been through solid matter, for
>> crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's
>> scrambled his molecules...
>>
>>> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
>>> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
>>> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>>>
>>> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
>>> What about other ethnic or cultural groups? I'm German, and I wouldn't
>>> be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
>>> fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere. And I doubt that
>>> too many people would get upset if Griese had been referring to an
>>> Italian and spaghetti. But even I admit that I would have had a WTF
>>> moment if he'd referred to a black person and, say, watermelon. As
>>> such, why the apparent double standard of my own?
>>>
>>> So what's acceptable, and what's not? It is based on race? Ethnicity?
>>> Location? The quality of the food in question?
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm just an insensitive jerk (go figure), but I would have just
>>> chuckled if I'd heard Griese say what he said live, and I would have
>>> thought of it as nothing more than an allusion to a food that Hispanics
>>> often enjoy. I would not have thought that it was offensive or
>>> derogatory in the least. But then I get back to blacks and foods that
>>> they typically enjoy and I start to cringe again at the possibilities.
>>>
>>> What are your own thoughts on any of these ramblings? First and
>>> foremost, would *you* have made the call to suspend Griese?
>>
>> hey, I'm not racist, but uhm occasionally in the back of my head head
>> I hear an Ad for Beano go through my head when people want a
>> translator...
>>
>> "if ya can't speak Spanish, Get BEANO!!!"
>>
>> too damn sensative these days.... I'm gonna don some Lederhosen and
>> simmer some Sausage in beer, and grab a jar of sourKraut now...
>
>I demand that RSFC suspend you *immediately* for this blatant hatred and
>phobia of the good people of Germany and German ancestry. Bass turd.
my Fleischman half of my family would be made at you, and my currently
deceased "Off the boat Grossvater" from Stuttgart would haunt you...
--
"the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now,
They're destroying our political process." -- Jesse Ventura
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.
Dennis J
crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's
scrambled his molecules...
>On Oct 29, 6:03�pm, Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
>> racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
>> somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>>
>> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
>> What about other ethnic or cultural groups? �I'm German, and I wouldn't
>> be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
>> fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere. �And I doubt that
>> too many people would get upset if Griese had been referring to an
>> Italian and spaghetti. �But even I admit that I would have had a WTF
>> moment if he'd referred to a black person and, say, watermelon. �As
>> such, why the apparent double standard of my own?
>>
>> So what's acceptable, and what's not? �It is based on race? �Ethnicity?
>> � � Location? �The quality of the food in question?
>>
>> Maybe I'm just an insensitive jerk (go figure), but I would have just
>> chuckled if I'd heard Griese say what he said live, and I would have
>> thought of it as nothing more than an allusion to a food that Hispanics
>> often enjoy. �I would not have thought that it was offensive or
>> derogatory in the least. �But then I get back to blacks and foods that
>> they typically enjoy and I start to cringe again at the possibilities.
>>
>> What are your own thoughts on any of these ramblings? �First and
>> foremost, would *you* have made the call to suspend Griese?
>>
>> --
>> Jim Gysin
>> Waukesha, WI
>
>The Germans and Italians haven't done as good a job at promoting their
>ethnic victimship as their darker pigmented brethren.
>
>OTOH, Griese's comment was made in ignorance. Montoya is a native of
>Colombia, and Colombians don't eat tacos. Griese should have said,
>"He's out snorting a line of coke."
or he's on a coffee break....
Dennis J
matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain?
Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
>On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:44:37 -0500, Jim Gysin wrote...
>
>> I did, too. But then I read later that he'd been suspended (he had
>> already apologized earlier) and I was depressed that we *might* be
>> turning into a society that rewards the over-sensitive types and those
>> who do the best job of whining and claiming victimhood.
>
>Turning?!
>
>America's been a victim-status-seeking society for at least 15 years.
longer, it's what fans the flames of extreme conservativism... I
remember jokes about the most discriminated folks in the country being
the white man, because he didn't have any programs or spokespeople
that targeted his plight...
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Sure - that's what I said above.
--
I'm so hip I have trouble seeing over my pelvis.
I'm so cool you can keep a side of meat in me for months.
The BorgMan
september.org:
> Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
It warrants a suspension if hs employer thinks it does.
...and it ain't about sensitivity - it's about cold hard cash.
--
Aaron
The BorgMan
> Maybe I'm just an insensitive jerk (go figure), but I would have just
> chuckled if I'd heard Griese say what he said live, and I would have
> thought of it as nothing more than an allusion to a food that Hispanics
> often enjoy
No - tacos are a food that MEXICANS often enjoy.
Note that most hispanics who aren't Mexican - really, really, really don't
like people to presume they're Mexican.
--
Aaron
The BorgMan
september.org:
> Where do you draw the line?
I don't - his employer does.
...and I'm willing to bet they draw that line right where they think they
are maximizing their revenue.
--
Aaron
The BorgMan
news:b9452822-5399-48db...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> On Oct 29, 9:38�pm, Zaphod Beeblebrox <victor.ki...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> Disculpa Senora Jim Gysin, pero did you really mime the following �on
>> 10/29/2009 8:40 PM???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Zaphod Beeblebrox sent the following on 10/29/2009 6:57 PM:
>> >> Disculpa Senora Jim Gysin, pero did you really mime the following
>> >> �o
It is if his employer thought that doing so would maximize their income.
--
Aaron
The BorgMan
news:MPG.255410eb9...@news-europe.giganews.com:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:50:52 -0500, Jim Gysin wrote...
>
>>
>> Anthony Summers sent the following on 10/29/2009 7:54 PM:
>> > On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:44:37 -0500, Jim Gysin wrote...
>> >
>> >> I did, too. But then I read later that he'd been suspended (he
>> >> had already apologized earlier) and I was depressed that we
>> >> *might* be turning into a society that rewards the over-sensitive
>> >> types and those who do the best job of whining and claiming
>> >> victimhood.
>> >
>> > Turning?!
>> >
>> > America's been a victim-status-seeking society for at least 15
>> > years.
>>
>> Fair point, but the success rate (in terms of rewards) of the
>> "victims" seems to be off-the-charts these days.
>
> How long ago was the infamous McDonald's coffee case?
>
You mean the one that adhered to hundreds of years of common law
precedent?
--
Aaron
sam
jimg...@geemail.com says...
This is all simple speculation. You have no idea.
But if the past is any guide (and only if), then the network
heard about it fairly quickly.
My own sense of it is also speculation. But I'm pretty sure
that a large network does not make decisions based on
political correctness. They'll put on anything that sales and
is legal. In this case, they probably (this is a guess) calculated
that it would be better to protect their product from an Hispanic
backlash than offend the sensibilities of right wingers. This
is not about political correctness. Corporations have a
fiduciary responsibility, not an ethical one.
s
sam
Yes, sir.
They have to. It's the fiduciary responsibility of the network
decision makers.
s
lein
> Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote innews:hcd3fd$luu$1...@news.eternal-
> september.org:
>
> > Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
>
> It warrants a suspension if hs employer thinks it does.
>
> ...and it ain't about sensitivity - it's about cold hard cash.
Is there a relationship between sensitivity and cold hard cash?
The BorgMan
96a6d4...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
No.
There is a relationship between offending customers and losing cash though.
--
Aaron
lein
> lein <boomer_the_...@my-deja.com> wrote in news:f4c267fd-bf71-486e-ad41-
> 96a6d483d...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Oct 30, 9:27 am, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
> >> Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote innews:hcd3fd$luu$1...@news.eternal-
> >> september.org:
>
> >> > Does that warrant a suspension, or are people getting too sensitive?
>
> >> It warrants a suspension if hs employer thinks it does.
>
> >> ...and it ain't about sensitivity - it's about cold hard cash.
>
> > Is there a relationship between sensitivity and cold hard cash?
>
> No.
>
> There is a relationship between offending customers and losing cash though.
Is there a relationship between sensitivity and offending customers?
Goro
> On Oct 29, 5:03 pm, Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > What are your own thoughts on any of these ramblings? First and
> > foremost, would *you* have made the call to suspend Griese?
>
> paid to talk.
>
> I blame this 'happy talk', never-a-second-of-dead-air announcing style
> that's in vogue. You're supposed to talktalktalk, but sooner or later
> you run out of relevant things to say and here we go.
BINGO. Man, i am so sick of it. Just SHUT UP for a minute. Gheez.
(And if you're Kirk Herbstreet, shut up for the entire game!)
-goro-
Goro
> On Oct 29, 6:21 pm, sam <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <hcd3fd$lu...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > jimgy...@geemail.com says...
>
> > > If you haven't already heard, he gets a week off for joking that a
> > > racecar driver with a Hispanic name was absent because he was off
> > > somewhere eating a taco, or some such thing.
>
> > > be offended in the least if someone joked that my absence was due to the
> > > fact that I was off eating some bratwurst somewhere.
>
> > Or committing a holocaust.
>
>
> It's more the assumption that a guy with a hispanic sounding name is
> messican.
Do you know that there was a Cesar Chavez movie being worked on and
Antonio Banderas was signed on for the lead. It got alot of people
riled up b/c Banderas is Spanish and Cesar Chavez is famously
Mexican. FWIW.
-goro-
Anarchist Ruffain of Notre Dame
> hey, Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com>'s been through solid matter, for
> crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's
> scrambled his molecules...
> >> simmer some Sausage in beer, and grab a jar of sourKraut now...
>
> >I demand that RSFC suspend you *immediately* for this blatant hatred and
> >phobia of the good people of Germany and German ancestry. Bass turd.
>
> my Fleischman half of my family would be made at you, and my currently
> deceased "Off the boat Grossvater" from Stuttgart would haunt you...
Currently deceased? Are you expecting a change in status?
--
TO
shiite
My favorite beer mug is a Cleveland Indians souvenir that bears the
likeness of Chief Wahoo. I'm very sensitive and would be highly
offended if the suits in Major League Baseball ever decided that Chief
Wahoo was an inappropriate mascot.