Ohno ROBBED!
stephenJ
shiite
> what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
I watched the replays, then replayed the replays. It looked to me
like Ohno's lower leg running into the Canadian's "balance hand" is
what knocked the Canadian out of balance. Tough call, though. Ohno
was mostly a victim of his own poor start.
Anthony Summers
He was mostly a victim of the Canadian judge who disqualified him,
resulting in another medal (bronze) for a Canadian (Tremblay).
--
A. Summers || summerstorm0007-->at<--yahoo.com
Dale Hicks
summers...@yahoo.com says...
If he wants to complain, they can point him towards the skating that
doesn't involve pushing each other all over the ice, and see how he
does at that.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
Scott
sure, terrible because Ohno clearly fouled the other skater. In the
post-event interview he also blamed the Canadian official for the DQ.
that sounds like the kind of sportsmanship a Maoist would admire.
Anthony Summers
> sure, terrible because Ohno clearly fouled the other skater.
He did nothing of the kind. Don't be stupid.
> In the
> post-event interview he also blamed the Canadian official for the DQ.
...as well he should have. It was a joke, and clear bias.
stephenJ
> On Feb 26, 10:26 pm, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
>> what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
>
> sure, terrible because Ohno clearly fouled the other skater.
how? hamlin shoved ohno last week and wasn't called for it. ohno didn't
even push the canadian in this race.
--
In our age it is not sex that raises its ugly head,
but love.
- J. Fowles
Manco
I never liked that punk from the start.
Calimero
> what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
What sport was that?
Track and field?
I don't care, I watch the Olympics.
Max
Scott
> Scott wrote:
> > On Feb 26, 10:26 pm, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
> >> what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
>
> > sure, terrible because Ohno clearly fouled the other skater.
>
> how? hamlin shoved ohno last week and wasn't called for it. ohno didn't
> even push the canadian in this race.
>
were in a curve, no way to know how much force was applied.
this was a clear foul; the official had no choice but to call it.
Anthony Summers
Of course there is a way to know how much force was applied, unless a
person is completely blind. Such contact is normal in speed skating,
and it's very clear that there was no foul of any kind. Clear bias.
Don Del Grande
> shiite wrote...
>
>> stephenJ wrote:
>>
>> > what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
>>
>> I watched the replays, then replayed the replays. It looked to me
>> like Ohno's lower leg running into the Canadian's "balance hand" is
>> what knocked the Canadian out of balance. Tough call, though. Ohno
>> was mostly a victim of his own poor start.
>
>He was mostly a victim of the Canadian judge who disqualified him,
>resulting in another medal (bronze) for a Canadian (Tremblay).
They've been calling those close ones a lot during these Olympics.
There would be much more screaming if they upheld Ohno's foul after
taking away a Korean gold medal for pretty much the same thing.
They may need to change the rules to allow that sort of thing - okay,
you're going to get a lot of intentional "bumping" and cutting off
other skaters, but if you don't like it, then take up another sport.
-- Don
stephenJ
how can it be a "clear foul" when merely touching another skater isn't a
foul, while pushing is, but you admit that you can't see tell whether he
pushed him or not?
--
It is easier to win over people to pacifism than socialism.
We should work first for pacifism, and only later for socialism.
- Albert Einstein
stephenJ
Yes, bias would seem to be the only explanation, unless we admit the
possibility that the judge is an idiot.
--
What is liberalism, generally speaking, but an attack
on the existing order of things?
- F. Dostoyevsky
Scott
without needing replay.
Heinrich Galland
<b4fd2c7b-85df-4fc7...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Scott <scot...@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's a shame that no one can ask the Canadian skater in question and
expect and honest answer as to what really happened!
Whatever happened to good sportsmanship?
Bobs yer uncle
> In article
> <b4fd2c7b-85df-4fc7-9b9f-d2a30b026...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
A moot question, but an interesting one, is whether the guy knew he
was losing momentum at the same time Ohno was passing him, and used
the hand touch as an excuse to take a dive. And why didn't the lead
guy get called for hitting number 2's skate with his hand? 2 fouls,
and only one was called.
greg...@hotmail.com
> what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
Oh no!
StephenJ
sure, which is why the officials viewed.. the replay!
btw, the canadian winner was touching the south korean when he went
down, actually he wasn't just touching him like ohno was the other
canadian, he active pushed him with a swim-move, so why wasn't he
DQ'd? and why wasn't francois hamelin DQ'd for pushing ohno in the
1000?
i breathless await your unbiased response, lol.
Jefferson N. Glapski
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:01:06 -0800 (PST), Scott wrote...
>
>> sure, terrible because Ohno clearly fouled the other skater.
>
> He did nothing of the kind. Don't be stupid.
>
>> In the
>> post-event interview he also blamed the Canadian official for the DQ.
>
> ...as well he should have. It was a joke, and clear bias.
Sounds like organizations shouldn't have officiating representatives
from the geographical location of one of the teams involved.
Just ask Dick Honig. And whilst you are searching on him, do a search on
"Dick Honig Shrine"
Scott
i'm not judging the Ohno DQ by other events. (i'm not biased.)
StephenJ
ok, forget about the ohno DQ, and explain those two other events i
described. go ahead, i'm eager to have your unbiased perspective.
Joe Ramirez
Can you please quote, or at least cite, the short track rule that
defines a "foul" and explains when disqualification is mandated?
Dale Hicks
d1f428...@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, sja...@cox.net says...
>
> btw, the canadian winner was touching the south korean when he went
> down, actually he wasn't just touching him like ohno was the other
> canadian, he active pushed him with a swim-move, so why wasn't he
> DQ'd? and why wasn't francois hamelin DQ'd for pushing ohno in the
> 1000?
The Korean actually fell on his own. He clearly slipped, touched the
Canadian, then the Canadian touched him while trying to keep his
balance.
It didn't look like Ohno put any pressure on the Canadian when he put
his hand on him, but I'm with the others that say there's no way of
knowing for sure, so if you touch the other competitor when you don't
have the right of way and he spills, you're responsible either way.
He's gotten lucky from pushing people down before, so he can live
with this DQ. And if he can't, there's always real skating, where
the only drama is which lane you decide to take on crossover points.
C'mon people, it's not like this happened in an actual sport or
anything. If we want to complain about the refs, let's complain
about how the Czechs got jobbed in the hockey game the other day
(although the playoffs have been pretty fairly called, for the most
part).
sam
a...@b.com says...
I just saw this for the first time. Yeah, it's impossible to tell
how much pressure Ohno put on the guy's hip (it doesn't appear like
much to me), but since he fell the judges really had no alternative but
to call a foul.
My two small cents.
s
Joe Ramirez
> In article <MPG.25f339b7cb2836f6989...@news.eternal-september.org>,> > d1f4284d2...@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, sjar...@cox.net says...
>
> > > btw, the canadian winner was touching the south korean when he went
> > > down, actually he wasn't just touching him like ohno was the other
> > > canadian, he active pushed him with a swim-move, so why wasn't he
> > > DQ'd? and why wasn't francois hamelin DQ'd for pushing ohno in the
> > > 1000?
>
> > The Korean actually fell on his own. He clearly slipped, touched the
> > Canadian, then the Canadian touched him while trying to keep his
> > balance.
>
> > It didn't look like Ohno put any pressure on the Canadian when he put
> > his hand on him, but I'm with the others that say there's no way of
> > knowing for sure, so if you touch the other competitor when you don't
> > have the right of way and he spills, you're responsible either way.
> > He's gotten lucky from pushing people down before, so he can live
> > with this DQ. And if he can't, there's always real skating, where
> > the only drama is which lane you decide to take on crossover points.
>
> > C'mon people, it's not like this happened in an actual sport or
> > anything. If we want to complain about the refs, let's complain
> > about how the Czechs got jobbed in the hockey game the other day
> > (although the playoffs have been pretty fairly called, for the most
> > part).
>
> I just saw this for the first time. Yeah, it's impossible to tell
> how much pressure Ohno put on the guy's hip (it doesn't appear like
> much to me), but since he fell the judges really had no alternative but
> to call a foul.
Can you please quote, or at least cite, the short track rule that
CloudsRest
> Scott wrote:
> > On Feb 26, 10:26 pm, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
> >> what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
>
> > sure, terrible because Ohno clearly fouled the other skater.
>
> how? hamlin shoved ohno last week and wasn't called for it. ohno didn't
> even push the canadian in this race.
>
Do you claim bad officiating, cheating, payback for the past, or all
the above?
Solnichka Frankenstein: Sock-nificant!
TMML.
Canada ≠ South Korea
Solnichka Frankenstein: Sock-nificant!
Typical whiny American who has been overhyped by the media.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. Accept the consequences like a
man, Ohno -- or give back all your medals for basically benefiting
from the same ridiculousness of your "sport".
StephenJ
> In article <MPG.25f339b7cb2836f6989...@news.eternal-september.org>,> > d1f4284d2...@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, sjar...@cox.net says...
>
> > > btw, the canadian winner was touching the south korean when he went
> > > down, actually he wasn't just touching him like ohno was the other
> > > canadian, he active pushed him with a swim-move, so why wasn't he
> > > DQ'd? and why wasn't francois hamelin DQ'd for pushing ohno in the
> > > 1000?
>
> > The Korean actually fell on his own. He clearly slipped, touched the
> > Canadian, then the Canadian touched him while trying to keep his
> > balance.
>
> > It didn't look like Ohno put any pressure on the Canadian when he put
> > his hand on him, but I'm with the others that say there's no way of
> > knowing for sure, so if you touch the other competitor when you don't
> > have the right of way and he spills, you're responsible either way.
> > He's gotten lucky from pushing people down before, so he can live
> > with this DQ. And if he can't, there's always real skating, where
> > the only drama is which lane you decide to take on crossover points.
>
> > C'mon people, it's not like this happened in an actual sport or
> > anything. If we want to complain about the refs, let's complain
> > about how the Czechs got jobbed in the hockey game the other day
> > (although the playoffs have been pretty fairly called, for the most
> > part).
>
> I just saw this for the first time. Yeah, it's impossible to tell
> how much pressure Ohno put on the guy's hip (it doesn't appear like
> much to me), but since he fell the judges really had no alternative but
> to call a foul.
this is amazing. three posters agree that from the video we CAN'T TELL
if ohno committed a foul, and yet all 3 say the judge had no choice
but to call a foul.
sheesh!
Scott
can you please build a short track stadium, hire two elite racers and
have one making hand contact with the other during a curve? then
explain to us why I need to provide you research data?
Glen Heiman
"Solnichka Frankenstein: Sock-nificant!" <solnichkaf...@gmail.com>
wrote in message
news:7ca8c6ca-8c2c-49c7...@u5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 8:01 pm, Scott <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 10:26 pm, stephenJ <sjar...@pop.com> wrote:
>
> > what a TERRIBLE disqualification decision.
>
> sure, terrible because Ohno clearly fouled the other skater. In the
> post-event interview he also blamed the Canadian official for the DQ.
>
> that sounds like the kind of sportsmanship a Maoist would admire.
Typical whiny American who has been overhyped by the media.
Apparently you heard different interviews than I did. I heard little or no
whining by Ohno, even when the interviewers were trying to stoke the fire.
I know that disappoints you.
Heiman
Joe Ramirez
In other words, you have no idea what the rule actually is, but won't
let that stop you from pontificating about it; when challenged, you'll
just evade the question with more hot air. Thank you for the
illuminating nonresponse.
TimV
Vrai Cinico
The impeding call, which is what I assume it was, is a judgment call and
is skipped early in races especially if no one falls. On the final turn
if you touch the leader and he tumbles, it becomes a much more likely call.
The fact the the leader was Canadian, the offending skater was American
and the official was Canadian are incidental, I am sure. ;)
--
Cheers,
vc
stephenJ
> The impeding call, which is what I assume it was, is a judgment call and
> is skipped early in races especially if no one falls. On the final turn
> if you touch the leader and he tumbles, it becomes a much more likely call.
>
> The fact the the leader was Canadian, the offending skater was American
> and the official was Canadian are incidental, I am sure. ;)
actually, the race leader was korean, and he was touched on the turn by
a canadian and fell, and yet ... no DQ and the canadian who touched him
got the gold.
Go figure ...
Scott
'Bobs yer uncle' is a great nick. ;
Vrai Cinico
> > Vrai Cinico wrote:
>
>> The impeding call, which is what I assume it was, is a judgment call
>> and is skipped early in races especially if no one falls. On the final
>> turn if you touch the leader and he tumbles, it becomes a much more
>> likely call.
>>
>> The fact the the leader was Canadian, the offending skater was
>> American and the official was Canadian are incidental, I am sure. ;)
>
> actually, the race leader was korean, and he was touched on the turn by
> a canadian and fell, and yet ... no DQ and the canadian who touched him
> got the gold.
>
> Go figure ...
>
>
Ohno looks like the initiator of it all. Bad start led to the evidently
bad finish.
The Canadian's touch, which I could not see, is certainly later in time
than Ohno's touch of the #3 guy who fell right away. Without a different
angle to see the Canadian gold winner's and the Korean's interaction, it
is hard to say anything about whether he too should have been
disqualified. The American commentators seemed to say that the Korean
fell by himself and that Ohno thinks they both fell by themselves.
--
Cheers,
vc
Anthony Summers
> Ohno looks like the initiator of it all. Bad start
Apparently, you've never seen him race before. He always lets the race
develop in front of him, then picks his spot and makes his move.
--
A. Summers || summerstorm0007-->at<--yahoo.com
Dale Hicks
summers...@yahoo.com says...
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:10:47 -0500, Vrai Cinico wrote...
>
> > Ohno looks like the initiator of it all. Bad start
>
> Apparently, you've never seen him race before. He always lets the race
> develop in front of him, then picks his spot and makes his move.
In the finals of the 500? Doubtful. You've got to make a move ASAP
in that race. He can outmaneuver the lower class athletes in the
preliminary rounds and the longer distances, but even he had to get a
good start to have a good chance in this one.
Anthony Summers
> > > Ohno looks like the initiator of it all. Bad start
> >
> > Apparently, you've never seen him race before. He always lets the race
> > develop in front of him, then picks his spot and makes his move.
>
> In the finals of the 500? Doubtful.
You really should stop talkin' outta yer backside.
He does it *every* race.
stephenJ
> stephenJ wrote:
>> > Vrai Cinico wrote:
>>
>>> The impeding call, which is what I assume it was, is a judgment call
>>> and is skipped early in races especially if no one falls. On the
>>> final turn if you touch the leader and he tumbles, it becomes a much
>>> more likely call.
>>>
>>> The fact the the leader was Canadian, the offending skater was
>>> American and the official was Canadian are incidental, I am sure. ;)
>>
>> actually, the race leader was korean, and he was touched on the turn
>> by a canadian and fell, and yet ... no DQ and the canadian who touched
>> him got the gold.
>>
>> Go figure ...
>>
>>
>
> Ohno looks like the initiator of it all. Bad start led to the evidently
> bad finish.
>
> The Canadian's touch, which I could not see, is certainly later in time
> than Ohno's touch of the #3 guy who fell right away. Without a different
> angle to see the Canadian gold winner's and the Korean's interaction, it
> is hard to say anything about whether he too should have been
> disqualified.
see around 3:06-3:09, the top view, which pretty clearly shows the
canadian contact the korean with a "swim move", and the korean goes down.
Vrai Cinico
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:18:00 -0600, Dale Hicks wrote...
>
>>>> Ohno looks like the initiator of it all. Bad start
>>> Apparently, you've never seen him race before. He always lets the race
>>> develop in front of him, then picks his spot and makes his move.
>> In the finals of the 500? Doubtful.
>
> You really should stop talkin' outta yer backside.
>
> He does it *every* race.
>
His 500 gold medal run in the 2006 Olympics saw him get off to a great
start and lead from start to finish.
--
Cheers,
vc
Vrai Cinico
What time is Ohno's touch? Definitely earlier. The swim move seems a
reaction to the earlier touch by Ohno and the fall by the #3 skater.
--
Cheers,
vc
Sao Paulo Swallow
I thought at the time that the Canadian had touched the Korean, but
the commentators said the Korean fell on his own. From that angle, it
does look like the Canadian touched the Korean but it's just as
difficult to tell what effect it had as it is with the Ohno touch.
Both guys fell.
stephenJ
no, the swim move was because the canadian was trying to do to the
korean what ohno was trying to do to the *other* canadian - pass him.
and you keep emphasizing that ohno's touch is earlier, when it's not
clear what that has to do with what happens between canadian #1 and the
korean. it's not like canadian #2, the one touched by ohno, somehow
causes canadian #1 to push the korean.
both ohno and canadian #1 were in the same basic position - the race was
about to end, and ohno was trying to move up from #4 to #3, while
canadian #1 was trying to move up from #2 to #1. Both made contact with
the guys in front of them, and those guys went down.
stephenJ
> I thought at the time that the Canadian had touched the Korean, but
> the commentators said the Korean fell on his own. From that angle, it
> does look like the Canadian touched the Korean but it's just as
> difficult to tell what effect it had as it is with the Ohno touch.
> Both guys fell.
I agree - both touched the guys in front of them, and those guys both
fell, and yet ohno was DQd, while Hamelin, the Canadian, was awarded the
gold medal. Two very different outcomes for essentially the same
behavior. mystifying.
--
The Achilles heel of Socialism was the inability to link the socialist goal
with the provision of incentives for efficient labor and the encouragement
of effort on the part of individuals.
- Mikhail Gorbachev