Apple vs The Fascists

[agavi...@gmail.com]

The USGov is asking Apple for a general backdoor and Apple says no. I get that.

The USGov seems to be asking for specific help on the CA terrorists iPhone. Why are they asking for help when there are platforms that can read that data w/o the passcode?

Or, with the complex pass codes and better encryption on new phones are they unable to decrypt what they get?

Obviously, I'm missing something.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

You're missing that Tim Cook is standing up to the US gov - at least for now

[xyzzy]

I have my own theory but it does border on dorkstarism...

The government has already cracked the iPhone encryption. But they don't want our adversaries to know that so they are making a show of being thwarted by Apple.

[Michael]

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:51:27 PM UTC-6, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:

Kate Knibbs at Gizmodo has a good summary: "But if the FBI comes across a safe in that house, the warrant and permission do not mean it can force the company that manufactures [of] the safe to create a special tool for opening its safes, especially a tool that would make other safes completely useless as secure storage. That's the situation that Apple's dealing with here."

http://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-care-about-apple-s-fight-with-the-fbi-1759639200

[Ken Olson]

I think this is entirely possible. I really have difficulty believing
that the resources of the NSA, CIA, FBI, and DOD can't get into any
device if they really need to do it.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

I included that part. I wonder why they are asking for what I presume they can already do.

I know there are devices that can read everything on your iPhone w/o passcode. But I suspect Apple's encryption may have outrun them.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

Yes, that's the general backdoor question. I'm wondering why (if?) they are asking for help on this particular phone.

There are already tools on the market for getting into a phone.

[Emperor Wonko the Sane]

I think it's more cynical than that. They probably have ways that involve taking the phone apart and major computer power. They'd rather not have the hassle, so they're using the opportunity of a clear terrorist situation to badger Apple into giving them easier, cheaper and quicker access.

Doug

[xyzzy]

Yeah, I agree that's the more likely theory. But I'd merge it with mine and say even if they succeeded at that they would continue badgering Apple if for no other reason than to hide the fact that they can do it.

[xyzzy]

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 4:20:42 PM UTC-5, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I included that part. I wonder why they are asking for what I presume they can already do.
>
> I know there are devices that can read everything on your iPhone w/o passcode. But I suspect Apple's encryption may have outrun them.

But do those devices work on newer iPhones that have the secure enclave?

[Ken Olson]

They would be able to open a safe. They wouldn't have to ask anyone how.

Most small home safes or a safe that would likely be in a small business
are fairly easy to crack. All you need is a big hammer.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

sadly plausible

[RoddyMcCorley]

My understanding is that there is no way in w/o the pass code. After the
10Th failed attempt the info is wiped. Also, Apple would have to
develop a crack to get in.

--
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul
with evil.

Pennsylvania - Tá sé difriúil anseo.

[xyzzy]

Exactly. tl;dr version: Apple is being asked to develop a hack that gives the FBI unlimited guesses without risk of wiping the phone.

[Damon Hynes, Cyclone Ranger]

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 9:32:29 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:
> Exactly. tl;dr version: Apple is being asked to develop a hack that gives the FBI unlimited guesses without risk of wiping the phone.

I think this whole thing is a slippery slope that the Feds have no problem with; some commentators I heard locally think that the phone has already been unlocked, but the Feds want an easier procedure in the future. Meghan McCain takes the other side; that the Feds only have 1000 people in the counter-cyber-security business. Apple has ten times as many in their Marketing department.

Apple is a heretofore unwitting participant in a dangerous game with civil liberties. The more intransigent they are--publically, at least--the more fuel is given to the shoot first, shoot second, maybe ask questions later crowd of xenophobes. "We can't prove which one of 'them' did it, so let Allah sort them out."

[agavi...@gmail.com]

That's what I'm wondering. My intel friends are vague at times.

[Michael Press]

In article <na2nie$7tt$1...@dont-email.me>,

There is encryption that is currently unbreakable.
The way in is to exploit weaknesses in the implementation.
This is a difficult subject. Either the adversary
exploits weaknesses or the adversary implants weaknesses.

--
Michael Press

[Some dued]

That's right on, if encryption is done properly its bulletproof however its often not done properly. I don't understand how apple can "build" a solution to unlock this phone, either they can decrypt it or they can't and a "solution" would only apply to new phones, or patched ones.

[xyzzy]

On Thursday, February 18, 2016 at 4:50:35 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> That's right on, if encryption is done properly its bulletproof however its often not done properly. I don't understand how apple can "build" a solution to unlock this phone, either they can decrypt it or they can't and a "solution" would only apply to new phones, or patched ones.

The dude apparently had a four digit numeric PIN on the phone. What the FBI is asking Apple to do is modify the system software so they get unlimited guesses at the PIN without danger of wiping the phone after 10 unsuccessful tries. Another feature of the phone's software is that after a certain number of unsuccessful tries, like 7, you can only try once an hour, and they want that removed to.

[wolfie]

"xyzzy" wrote

> What the FBI is asking Apple to do is modify the system software
> so they get unlimited guesses at the PIN

Being smart, I'd simply ask them to branch the password fail to the
password succeed. What's that, a one address change?

[meda...@gmail.com]

So you're saying that once I enter the correct PIN, the data is sent unencrypted? That would be almost criminally reckless. Even storing it unencrypted would be an unbelievable breach. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If so, I apologize.

[Some dued]

That makes sense if they can update the software without having to log in first (unsure how iPhone updates happen).
I guess the trick is that OS updates must be signed and only apple can do that.