No wonder The Donald is so wealthy

[Futbol Phan]

If I didn't pay bills, I'd be a lot better off too:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

BTW, 3500 lawsuits? WTF-- how many lawyers does The Donald employ?

[Ken Olson]

As many as he needs.

[Michael Press]

In article <adb87869-1e32-4fca...@googlegroups.com>,

Cherry picking. How many suits does the average movie studio file?
How many filed against the average studio. Put up or retract.
I dare say you will do neither.

--
Michael Press

[xyzzy]

Do you mean the lawyers he pays or the ones he stiffs?

[xyzzy]

The campaign ads write themselves. Footage of Teh Donald bragging about how
he got out AC just in time and made a lot of money, juxtaposed with footage
of small business owners who went bankrupt because he stuffed them.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Countered by ads of Hillary and Goldman Sachs getting bailed out

This election sucks

[JGibson]

At the very least, I hope Gary Johnson can find his way into the debates.

[Thomas R. Kettler]

In article <njee7p$e86$3...@dont-email.me>, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Trump doesn't employ lawyers, he USES them.
--
Remove blown from email address to reply.

[Ken Olson]

I met him 4 years ago. Very personable and an impressive resume.

[GrtArtiste]

On 6/10/2016 1:45 AM, Futbol Phan wrote:

> If I didn't pay bills, I'd be a lot better off too:
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

Is this what you call making money in the new old-fashioned way?

John Houseman is spinning in his grave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMPu99_Xvjw

GrtArtiste

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

You don't *always* have to find an equivalence, ch, especially one that's a stretch (pretty sure the trumpster is in with the wall st crowd as well).

Like, if someone brings up hillary email I don't immediately have to throw out trump university.

I mean, I will. But I don't have to! Lol.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Yessssssss but in a thread about campaign ads, it seems more than appropriate

And frankly, if someone said "I think Donnnie should run an ad about emails", I'd be surprised if no one said "and if it happens, it'll be countered by Trump U"

I mean that IS part of political ads - point, counterpoint, etc

[xyzzy]

I'll take that trade. I think we win that exchange.

Goldman Sachs getting bailed out is infuriating but in an abstract sense
and it can argued that it saved the economy (I know you don't agree but
people can honestly disagree on that). Its hard to put the finger on a
single, sympathetic individual who was hurt by it. The third generation
cabinet maker who lost the company his grandfather built because Trump
arbitrarily stiffed him will be much more powerful, and there's no upside
or decent human motive that can be ascribed to it and no one can honestly
argue there was a motive other than venality.

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2016-06-10, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior <Iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 8:10:23 AM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
>>> Futbol Phan <sgz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If I didn't pay bills, I'd be a lot better off too:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/
>>>>
>>>> BTW, 3500 lawsuits? WTF-- how many lawyers does The Donald employ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The campaign ads write themselves. Footage of Teh Donald bragging about how
>>> he got out AC just in time and made a lot of money, juxtaposed with footage
>>> of small business owners who went bankrupt because he stuffed them.
>>
>> Countered by ads of Hillary and Goldman Sachs getting bailed out
>>
>> This election sucks
>
> I'll take that trade. I think we win that exchange.

Indeed.

>
> Goldman Sachs getting bailed out is infuriating but in an abstract sense
> and it can argued that it saved the economy (I know you don't agree but
> people can honestly disagree on that).

The bailout was also bipartisan.

> Its hard to put the finger on a single, sympathetic individual who
> was hurt by it.

On the other hand, the GM bailout stole money from old widows to benefit
union fatcats. That's pretty sympathetic. On top of it, it didn't save
Detroit which went down the tubes anyway.

> The third generation cabinet maker who lost the company his
> grandfather built because Trump arbitrarily stiffed him will be much
> more powerful, and there's no upside or decent human motive that can
> be ascribed to it and no one can honestly argue there was a motive
> other than venality.

Roger that. Trump is a Democrat, and Republicans need to disavow him.
He isn't conservative, and he is a moral disaster.

--
Being against torture ought to be sort of a bipartisan thing.
-- Karl Lehenbauer

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 6:01:11 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior <Iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 8:10:23 AM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> >> Futbol Phan <sgz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> If I didn't pay bills, I'd be a lot better off too:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/
> >>>
> >>> BTW, 3500 lawsuits? WTF-- how many lawyers does The Donald employ?
> >>>
> >>
> >> The campaign ads write themselves. Footage of Teh Donald bragging about how
> >> he got out AC just in time and made a lot of money, juxtaposed with footage
> >> of small business owners who went bankrupt because he stuffed them.
> >
> > Countered by ads of Hillary and Goldman Sachs getting bailed out
> >
> > This election sucks
>
> I'll take that trade. I think we win that exchange.
>
> Goldman Sachs getting bailed out is infuriating but in an abstract sense
> and it can argued that it saved the economy

I dunno...I'd take a stab at the ad - pic of Lloyd Blankfein in front of Congress and laughing and a $ figure and then close with - no wonder they gave Hillary big money for a speech - she must have deleted the transcripts along with the emails.

There'd be blood for both fo' sho'

(I know you don't agree but
> people can honestly disagree on that).

You know me too well

Its hard to put the finger on a
> single, sympathetic individual who was hurt by it. The third generation
> cabinet maker who lost the company his grandfather built because Trump
> arbitrarily stiffed him will be much more powerful, and there's no upside
> or decent human motive that can be ascribed to it and no one can honestly
> argue there was a motive other than venality.

Ah hell, if I were to run an anti-Trump ad like that, I'd do eminent domain attempt on the lady in Atlantic City - the house Donnie wanted to seize for a parking lot for high rollers - and then close with "Do we want to gamble with America's Future?" overlaying a pic of small hands rolling dice which show snake eyes...

Have I mentioned this election sucks?

[RoddyMcCorley]

On 6/10/2016 1:45 AM, Futbol Phan wrote:

One of my neighbors in NJ owns a tile business that "won" the contract
to do the tile and decorative stone work at the Trump Taj Mahal in AC. I
got stiffed by Trump. I remember his words: "they decide how much they
will pay when the job is done."

I have worked as an environmental consultant for the Taj Mahal and Trump
Plaza. When I was re-permitting the Taj Mahal boilers. I asked for the
original specs and O & M manuals. The had none because they stiffed the
boiler vendor at the end of the job and the vendor refused to give them
the spec sheets and manuals.

--
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul
with evil.

Pennsylvania - Tá sé difriúil anseo.

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

Hey, if he's stiffing folks and paying out less in settlements then he would have under the original contract, that doesn't make him a bad guy.

It just makes him a good capitalist. Shrewd.

Just like the folks that determine not to recall a minivan because the brake issue will only kill one in a million families, and the recall will cost more than the handful of eventual lawsuits. Capitalism isn't a game for the weak-willed, yo.

(I prolly owe a buck to fight club in there somewhere)

Cheers.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 7:02:37 AM UTC-5, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey, if he's stiffing folks and paying out less in settlements then he would have under the original contract, that doesn't make him a bad guy.

Yes it does

> It just makes him a good capitalist. Shrewd.

It's really sad if that's your view of capitalism

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

That's totally my view of capitalism.

There's no real judgement added. Capitalism is a powerful mechanism for the creation and distribution of goods. It's only reckoning around the concept of "being humane" is whatever we pump back in via feedback loop - deciding collectively not to purchase tuna because of the poor freakin dolphins.

It's like evolution. A powerful force around the continuation and propagation of life. But there's nothing humane around the mechanics of differentiation and selection. It's cold hearted, brutal, unrelenting, and extremely effective. Just like the markets!

Cheers.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

So you're saying you're against evolution? WHY dO yOu h8 science??????

FWIW - something I was thinking about while mowing the lawn y'day - and I should prolly make this a breakout thread....but part of the schism we see these days is over market opportunity. Broadly speaking, the left sees a "problem" - and thinks the solution is "government" in some form - while many on the right think to themselves - market opportunity.

Example - Bernie's whinged several times about how student loan interest rates are higher than those for a car or mortgage. Setting aside the reasons why this is, people like me think if this is such a Big Issue, then there should be opportunity to provide the service wanted - low interest rate student loans.

And actually, there are a couple companies trying new and creative ways of financing this - career earnings mortgages, etc

This is the beauty of capitalism - using profit motive to provide creative solutions people actually want - and if the idea works - bingo. If not, then you're pets.com

Or how about low pay jobs. If you think you can run a business while paying higher than normal salaries - you should be able to do well. Businessmen aren't entirely stupid and if it shows on the bottom line/they see their competitors taking market share, they're more than willing to follow. Costco famously pays their employees well and is rewarded with a fanatical following of customers and a very low turnover of employees. If you think McD's should pay $15/hr, there's nothing stopping you from buying a franchise, making this your pay policy and advertising the fuck out of it - if people want to walk their talk, they should flood your store and you'll make back the cost of higher salaries in spades.

Just all about seeing and taking the opportunity that hasn't been realized yet.

So why not rely on the gov't to set all this? B/c gov't rule/regs are necessarily monolithic while the real world has a looooooooong tail - and long tails are where opportunity lies.

Kinda wish the left was more capitalistic oriented, to be honest - y'all are pretty good at finding inefficiencies and driving "change" - but rely too much on gov't mandates to effect them rather than profit motive - which is faster and more effective - and has a broader "me too" effect

okay - enough rambling on a Saturday morning.

[RoddyMcCorley]

On 6/11/2016 8:02 AM, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey, if he's stiffing folks and paying out less in settlements then he would have under the original contract, that doesn't make him a bad guy.
>
> It just makes him a good capitalist. Shrewd.
>

No, it makes him a scumbag. He has, and continues to, use the power of
his organization and his army of lawyers to screw those much less
affluent than him.

He may be a "shrewd" businessman, but a highly unethical one as well.
Look at the haircuts he gave his bondholders on multiple bankruptcies.
Now he thinks, if elected president, he can give the Chinese a haircut
on the treasury securities they hold. Little does he know that once you
give one bondholder a haircut all the others will rush for the exits.
They be selling Dollars at a steep discount.

Little does Trump know that two thirds of US sovereign debt is held
domestically, with social security holding (part of your retirement
account) a very large amount. His microeconomics acumen does not
translate to macroeconomics.

[RoddyMcCorley]

Did you major in eugenics? Social Darwinism?

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:19:31 AM UTC-5, RoddyMcCorley wrote:
> On 6/11/2016 8:02 AM, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hey, if he's stiffing folks and paying out less in settlements then he would have under the original contract, that doesn't make him a bad guy.
> >
> > It just makes him a good capitalist. Shrewd.
> >
> No, it makes him a scumbag. He has, and continues to, use the power of
> his organization and his army of lawyers to screw those much less
> affluent than him.
>
> He may be a "shrewd" businessman, but a highly unethical one as well.
> Look at the haircuts he gave his bondholders on multiple bankruptcies.
> Now he thinks, if elected president, he can give the Chinese a haircut
> on the treasury securities they hold. Little does he know that once you
> give one bondholder a haircut all the others will rush for the exits.
> They be selling Dollars at a steep discount.
>
> Little does Trump know that two thirds of US sovereign debt is held
> domestically, with social security holding (part of your retirement
> account) a very large amount. His microeconomics acumen does not
> translate to macroeconomics.
>

Indeed

[Emperor Wonko the Sane]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 8:03:25 AM UTC-5, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:

> That's totally my view of capitalism.
>
> There's no real judgement added. Capitalism is a powerful mechanism for the creation and distribution of goods. It's only reckoning around the concept of "being humane" is whatever we pump back in via feedback loop - deciding collectively not to purchase tuna because of the poor freakin dolphins.
>

This isn't true, imo. A free market is the collective input of all of the participants. Reacting to bad consequences is not a feedback loop, it's part of its structure. The problems come from 1) people being less than humane and/or 2) inadequate information. This is why you occasionally have companies trying very hard to keep secret that bad consequences of their product or operating practices. When people know, they go elsewhere (or swallow their humanity).

Doug