In the six figure club this year it looks like....

[michael anderson]

And not in a good way :(.....

Paying a shade over six figures in federal income tax alone after all deductions, credits, etc on 2016 tax return about to submit....that doesn't include state, local *OR* federal fica(ss/medicare) taxes...so it's really even much worse than this. Thats with a very large deduction for mortgage interest too.

So sorry if I'll be in a little grumpier mood the next few days.

Tax relief? Definately needed....At some point this insanity has to stop.

[shiite]

You're a contract worker, right?
1. Find out if the entity that pays you would be willing to pay you through an LLC.
2. If so, talk to a tax attorney about setting one up. Get references and get someone reputable. You will find yourself with more after-tax dollars.

[andre...@gmail.com]

You're in or very near to the top 1% of wage earners. If you haven't bothered to hire an accountant by now, blame yourself.

[Some dued]

How's that not good? I'd love to be paying six figures in taxes, seven would be even better.

[michael anderson]

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 1:29:12 PM UTC-6, shiite wrote:
> On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 1:13:27 PM UTC-6, michael anderson wrote:
> > And not in a good way :(.....
> >
> > Paying a shade over six figures in federal income tax alone after all deductions, credits, etc on 2016 tax return about to submit....that doesn't include state, local *OR* federal fica(ss/medicare) taxes...so it's really even much worse than this. Thats with a very large deduction for mortgage interest too.
> >
> > So sorry if I'll be in a little grumpier mood the next few days.
> >
> > Tax relief? Definately needed....At some point this insanity has to stop.
>
> You're a contract worker, right?

not mostly...W2 is about 80% of income(counting bonus that is paid through W2)

[michael anderson]

I have an accountant. There is only so much that can be done.

[andre...@gmail.com]

If it really bothers you that much, earn more money. Mitt Romney's effective tax rate was 14%. Donald Trump's is almost certainly lower than that.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

You need a different accountant.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

It's not how much he makes - it's how he makes it. That's his "issue" - too much w-2 - not enough "other types" of income.

He really should have a better accountant/financial planner/biz lawyer

[michael anderson]

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-6, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> You need a different accountant.

unlikely...he's pretty good. He's gone over plenty of other options for me, but a lot of those involve spending more money than I would 'get back' on things I don't need/want. Kind of like saving money by making a charitable donation.

A lot of the things I could do to save money on taxes would be to launch some more aggressive interests/businesses to create more opportunities for this. I have one I'm involved in(which is my self imployment income), but thats it and not really interested at this time in delving into more.

As Jon points out, too much of my money is in the form of W2. He mentions'biz lawyer' which sort of misses the point...- I'm not a businessman and what I mostly do isn't in that arena.

Given my current setup, there are no deductions I'm missing/not getting. Honestly I've already deducted the hell out of my non W-2 income to the point it doesn't really reflect what my true income was there....which I feel good about. But shit.....I'm still paying too damn much.

[michael anderson]

because romney's income was mostly all in the form of dividends and such. duh. I bet the non investment portion of Romney's income over time(the money he made to get so rich) was pretty highly taxed.

Romney didn't do anything clever to get down to 14%. It's not like he exploited loopholes that only rich people know of. He simply made his money in a way(now) that is taxed much less. It is what it is...it's not because he "earned more money".

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Have you talked with a biz lawyer? You may be able to set up a private corporation of some sort and your money paid to that w/ concurrent tax savings.

Frankly, it shouldn't cost you but a couple hundred bucks for a good consultation and that'd be a worthy investment. Like many things in life, you'll get what you pay for. Spend up and hire the best you can find.

Not entirely convinced your accountant is that good either - he might be good at a basic level, but....again - worth some time and money to check alternatives.

On the bright side, being able to pay taxes isn't so horrible - beats the alternative.

[andre...@gmail.com]

I know; just being cheeky. I have very little sympathy toward someone who complains that they have to *pay* well over twice as much in taxes as most Americans *make* in a year.

> He really should have a better accountant/financial planner/biz lawyer

Definitely.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Really should be a badge of honor and a source of pride

[michael anderson]

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 3:52:35 PM UTC-6, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 3:43:56 PM UTC-6, michael anderson wrote:
> > On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-6, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > You need a different accountant.
> >
> > unlikely...he's pretty good. He's gone over plenty of other options for me, but a lot of those involve spending more money than I would 'get back' on things I don't need/want. Kind of like saving money by making a charitable donation.
> >
> > A lot of the things I could do to save money on taxes would be to launch some more aggressive interests/businesses to create more opportunities for this. I have one I'm involved in(which is my self imployment income), but thats it and not really interested at this time in delving into more.
> >
> > As Jon points out, too much of my money is in the form of W2. He mentions'biz lawyer' which sort of misses the point...- I'm not a businessman and what I mostly do isn't in that arena.
> >
> > Given my current setup, there are no deductions I'm missing/not getting. Honestly I've already deducted the hell out of my non W-2 income to the point it doesn't really reflect what my true income was there....which I feel good about. But shit.....I'm still paying too damn much.
>
> Have you talked with a biz lawyer? You may be able to set up a private corporation of some sort and your money paid to that w/ concurrent tax savings.
>

yeah I can do that with my own money through my suboxone group practice...but thats not going to fly with my inpatient work which is mostly salaried(and the 401k, bennies, etc).

I know a lot of people who make a lot more money than me in healthcare(family, friends) and they do have mostly LLC/Scorp/1099 money and they have different accountants and lawyers and unless you are a really high rolling type(which I'm obviously not and my family and friends who make much more than me arent either) even then there is only so much you can do. They have more options than me because they can depreciate property, equipment, etc...but I don't have any property, equipment, staff, etc for the inpatient work.

I'm already maxed out on my retirement accounts. I've already done the usual writeoffs on sharing offices, cell phone, internet, etc.

Even if I could somehow detach the bulk of my income from the W2(which I cant under current setup), I'm not sure I could come out ahead because then I lose all the bennies. Yeah I'd then have even more writeoffs and things to throw under the umbrella, but started to have to pay for my own health insurance again just for the point of being able to write off some of it is not a good idea.

[xyzzy]

It is. This whole thread is his version of a humblebrag

[agavi...@gmail.com]

Pretty good ain't gettin it done.

My in-house accountant saves me a mint.

[Michael Press]

In article <c52b2052-7e3d-420b...@googlegroups.com>,

"the_andr...@yahoo.com" <agavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You need a different accountant.

I do not need an accountant. I hire one to do my tax returns
because I do not want to do them myself.

--
Michael Press

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

"Suboxone group practice".

Changing lives.

Cheers.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 6 Mar 2017 14:18:29 -0800 (PST), "The Cheesehusker, Trade
Warrior" <iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote:


>Really should be a badge of honor and a source of pride

Only if you would be as well-respected without the money...

Hugh

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 6 Mar 2017 14:22:28 -0800 (PST), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>It is. This whole thread is his version of a humblebrag

Strange - the people I know who make the most money NEVER talk about
it.

Hugh

[Theodore Heise]

Look into whether you could set up some deferred compensation,
perhaps via an LLC.

--
Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> Bloomington, IN, USA

[michael anderson]

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 5:11:41 PM UTC-6, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
> "Suboxone group practice".
>
> Changing lives.

Absolutely!


>
> Cheers.

[michael anderson]

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 4:22:29 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:
> It is. This whole thread is his version of a humblebrag

trust me...there is nothing to be bragging about. I'm mad and frustrated that I haven't been able to get a better arraingment.
Plenty of other local inpatient psychs I know either a) work as much as me for a lot lot more money b) work about 60% as much for about the same money

[Eric Ramon]

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:22:29 PM UTC-8, xyzzy wrote:
> It is. This whole thread is his version of a humblebrag

of it's true, it proves two things.

1. Life isn't fair. Mia makes that much money?
2. Health care in the U.S. is a ripoff. If there's that much profit there's something wrong.

[michael anderson]

actually, you are looking at it wrong. My sister is in the exact same field as me(she works for the VA). She makes about half what I do(maybe 55-60% when you consider her better benefits) but she sees 20-25% of the patients/work. So in essence she gets 2x as much.

so the private model here is much cheaper/better.

[Michael Press]

In article <c61fcd9f-18aa-4290...@googlegroups.com>,

You misspelled arraignment.

--
Michael Press

[Michael Press]

In article <030b50fc-f64b-4d8c...@googlegroups.com>,

There is a gent promoting this topic.
Do not remember his name. He has a
list of how the swindle works. One thing
is hiding the actual price.

--I want an MNO procedure. How much?
--What insurance do you have?

--
Michael Press

[michael anderson]

this is the biggest bunch of bs(but it's oft repeated). Call up an ask an office how much a procedure is and that you want to pay cash. They'll give you a specific price.

Slightly different reimbursements(and copays) depending on the insurer is not unique to health care....this is something that exists in multiple arenas. Wal Mart Corp may pay a different price from the same widget from the widget co than the mom and pop store...just as humana may reimburse a little different amount for the same procedure than blue cross to the same provider.

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

Profit is the price you pay for efficiency.

--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in
overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Edison

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2017-03-07, michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 2:58:32 PM UTC-6, Michael Press wrote:
>> In article <030b50fc-f64b-4d8c...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Eric Ramon <ramon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:22:29 PM UTC-8, xyzzy wrote:
>> > > It is. This whole thread is his version of a humblebrag
>> >
>> > of it's true, it proves two things.
>> >
>> > 1. Life isn't fair. Mia makes that much money?
>> > 2. Health care in the U.S. is a ripoff. If there's that much profit there's something wrong.
>>
>> There is a gent promoting this topic.
>> Do not remember his name. He has a
>> list of how the swindle works. One thing
>> is hiding the actual price.
>>
>> --I want an MNO procedure. How much?
>> --What insurance do you have?
>>
>> --
>> Michael Press
>
>
> this is the biggest bunch of bs(but it's oft repeated). Call up an ask
> an office how much a procedure is and that you want to pay cash.
> They'll give you a specific price.

That is not correct. Some places will, but some places have no such information
readily available. Also, the cash price tends to be very high, and is beyond
the means of most people -- it is the price prior to the discounts given to
insurers.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

That's a perfectly reasonable question addressing a perfectly sensible market dynamic.

If I go to Costco and buys X t usually costs less than if I go to the 7-11.

Why? Because Costco buys in greater bulk and sells in bulk. This gives them higher negotiating power with the manufacturer and allows them to purchase those items directly. The manufacturer can depend on a certain level of production and design their schedules (and costs) around that.

On the other hand, the 7-11 customer shows up to find a dusty box of X that has been on the shelf since 2015. They reach in and buy one. Eventually the 7-11 runs out, calls a local wholesaler, who refills the box of X at a markup after buying it from either a larger wholesaler (even Costco) or direct from the manufacturer.

The Costco member paid extra for their stronger buying power. Where the 7-11 buyer paid a higher price for convenience.

It's the same in healthcare.

Healthcare providers sell their services to bulk buyers, in this case insurance companies, at a negotiated discount. The people who have paid the fee to join the insurance company (a big healthcare Costco) have stronger "pre-negotiated" buying power with the HCP. The HCP agrees to take the insurers customers and the insurer agrees to make referrals, simplify paperwork, payments, etc.

That some choose to not join/shop at Costco is really no different than choosing to join/shop at Blue Cross.

Only problem with it today is the DNC decided everyone should shop at Costco (or Medicare).

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

Your sister is doing high-volume subox re-script work for the VA? Where her main priority is reducing the amount of time between "hi" and "bye" per addict?

Cheers.

[plai...@gmail.com]

So, you are saying that as a bulk practitioner, Mike owes his riches to the policies of the DNC?

[Some dued]

Listen to wot he's saying! He is being SCROOD! Other people are making more and working less!

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 20:05:24 -0800 (PST), Some dued
<theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Other people are making more and working less!

Making a lot of money is not overly important. Being the first choice
every time is. It takes talent and work.

Hugh

[michael anderson]

thats a small overall part of what I do.


>
> Cheers.

[michael anderson]

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 3:36:35 PM UTC-6, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2017-03-07, michael anderson <miande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 2:58:32 PM UTC-6, Michael Press wrote:
> >> In article <030b50fc-f64b-4d8c...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Eric Ramon <ramon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:22:29 PM UTC-8, xyzzy wrote:
> >> > > It is. This whole thread is his version of a humblebrag
> >> >
> >> > of it's true, it proves two things.
> >> >
> >> > 1. Life isn't fair. Mia makes that much money?
> >> > 2. Health care in the U.S. is a ripoff. If there's that much profit there's something wrong.
> >>
> >> There is a gent promoting this topic.
> >> Do not remember his name. He has a
> >> list of how the swindle works. One thing
> >> is hiding the actual price.
> >>
> >> --I want an MNO procedure. How much?
> >> --What insurance do you have?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Press
> >
> >
> > this is the biggest bunch of bs(but it's oft repeated). Call up an ask
> > an office how much a procedure is and that you want to pay cash.
> > They'll give you a specific price.
>

Also, the cash price tends to be very high, and is beyond
> the means of most people -- it is the price prior to the discounts given to
> insurers.

yes...and?

[Some dued]

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 4:57:47 AM UTC-6, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 20:05:24 -0800 (PST), Some dued wrote:
>
> >Other people are making more and working less!
>
> Making a lot of money is not overly important. Being the first choice
> every time is. It takes talent and work.
>
> Hugh

I'll go a step further, I don't care about being the first choice. I do things my way and let the chips fall where they may. More often than not they fall my way but I am aware of my weaknesses (disorganization mostly) and don't try to be all things to all people.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2017 06:28:13 -0800 (PST), Some dued
<theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 4:57:47 AM UTC-6, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 20:05:24 -0800 (PST), Some dued wrote:

>>=20

>> >Other people are making more and working less!

>>=20

>> Making a lot of money is not overly important. Being the first choice
>> every time is. It takes talent and work.

>>=20
>> Hugh
>
>I'll go a step further, I don't care about being the first choice. I do thi=
>ngs my way and let the chips fall where they may. More often than not they =
>fall my way but I am aware of my weaknesses (disorganization mostly) and do=

>n't try to be all things to all people.

I am over-organized. I even keep the paper clips lined up in the box.
Things are put back in their place - not some other place. The closet
and chest drawers are completely organized including shoes.

The pills are lined up on a shelf in my cave in the order I take them.

Winter clothes in one closet, summer in another. I just switch
closets.

I'm always 5 or more minutes early (unless my wife is going).

Hugh

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

Apparently your education didn't run to economics.

If you are paying cash, you are not a collection problem. The nominal prices
for procedures are high partly because they are an "opening bid", one that
takes into account the fact that many people will not pay. When you pay cash,
that is not a problem, and you should receive a discount.

As in fact you do if you shop around. But it is a major pain in the ass to
extract these prices from MSOs because of the tradition of no transparency --
a tradition used by medical practitioners to keep their prices high. Just one
more case of cronyism in the US market. We are among the best ever at preventing
this, but health care is one of the last bastions.

--
Fast, reliable, cheap. Pick two and we'll talk.
-- unknown

[agavi...@gmail.com]

As a bulk practitioner, he owes his income to the relationships forged with the most powerful buyers.

He could possibly earn more by targeting a different market segment.

[michael anderson]

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 5:22:10 PM UTC-6, plai...@gmail.com wrote:
> So, you are saying that as a bulk practitioner, Mike owes his riches to the policies of the DNC?

what the hell is a bulk practitioner? I see a good number of patients but not an insane amount...I work efficiently and have good workflow. I also probably work 30-40% more hours than most people in my field.

[Michael Press]

In article <01d4dee3-19c3-4bac...@googlegroups.com>,

plai...@gmail.com wrote:

> So, you are saying that as a bulk practitioner, Mike owes his riches to the policies of the DNC?

Hey! He's bipartisan. Want's the current administration to reduce his taxes.

--
Michael Press