Kelly And Swarbrick Gone From Noter Dame?
dam
"I have been informed by a source close to the situation that today as
many as 20 influential boosters met with Kelly and Swarbrick and
requested they resign from their positions. Neither man chose to
follow through with the resignations and some tension clearly left the
meeting room. One booster reportedly asked Kelly directly how he could
be unaware of the severe weather conditions to which Kelly replied
that he was unaware."
dam
-----
Faith does not give you the answers; it just stops you asking the
questions. - Frater Ravus
DanS.
11/5/2010 in writing
> Hopefully there will be legal proceedings to follow...
>
>
> "I have been informed by a source close to the situation that today as
> many as 20 influential boosters met with Kelly and Swarbrick and
> requested they resign from their positions. Neither man chose to
> follow through with the resignations and some tension clearly left the
> meeting room. One booster reportedly asked Kelly directly how he could
> be unaware of the severe weather conditions to which Kelly replied
> that he was unaware."
>
> http://tinyurl.com/32u7pku
>
conditions"
--
Yours,
Dan S.
ha ha, my paradigm shift is stronger than your rights initiative!
Carl Banks
> Hopefully there will be legal proceedings to follow...
>
> "I have been informed by a source close to the situation that today as
> many as 20 influential boosters met with Kelly and Swarbrick and
> requested they resign from their positions. Neither man chose to
> follow through with the resignations and some tension clearly left the
> meeting room. One booster reportedly asked Kelly directly how he could
> be unaware of the severe weather conditions to which Kelly replied
> that he was unaware."
>
> http://tinyurl.com/32u7pku
>
> dam
The boosters are just happy something bad happened so that they can
get rid of BriKell now, rather than waiting a few years, even though
he's not black. He doesn't appear to be a good fit at Notre Dame.
Carl Banks
dam
Of course, harsh in this context means being elevated on a scissor
platform in winds that far exceeded the manufacturer's
recommendations. Typically they say not to use them in winds > 20 mph.
The gusts in South Bend were > 50 mph the day he died so it wasn't
even close. Sadly, it appears that Noter Dame covered their asses by
making Declan sign a "hydraulic lift use waiver and indemnification
agreement" that basically absolves the University from any
responsibility for the accident. That's not been confirmed, but I'm
sure the school will echo your attitude and go on its merry way but
hopefully the coach and the AD will be gone.
dam
-----
Fundamentalism, of any type, due to its prerequisite lack of
intelligent thought, could prove to be the worst weapon of mass
destruction, of all. - David J. Constable
stephenj
> The boosters are just happy something bad happened so that they can
> get rid of BriKell now, rather than waiting a few years, even though
> he's not black. He doesn't appear to be a good fit at Notre Dame.
i think any coach who (a) doesn't have his kick defense on alert for a
fake when the other team lines up for a *46* yard FG that would only tie
the game in OT, (b) has his true freshman QB getting his first
significant game action throw a pass into the end zone with 20 seconds
left when all that's needed to win is an FG and you're already
well-within the range of your all-american kicker, and (c) fields a
defense that gives up 400 rushing yards to an option offense that even
Duke was able to beat, is (d) not a good fit for anyone.
--
Even if U.S. atom bombs were dropped on China and blasted
a hole in the earth or blew it to pieces, this might be
a big thing for the solar system, but it would still be
an insignificant matter as far as the universe as a whole
is concerned.
- Mao Tse Tung, 1958
stephenj
> Hopefully there will be legal proceedings to follow...
i know there's an investigation and we have to wait until all the facts
are in, but i don't see how swarbrick or kelly survives this. you can't
have people DYING at practice because of gross negligence on the part of
those in authority on the scene.
--
I think the people of Mississippi ought to come
to Chicago to learn how to hate.
- Martin Luther King Jr.
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
> > On 11/5/2010 5:06 AM, dam wrote:
>
> > Hopefully there will be legal proceedings to follow...
>
> i know there's an investigation and we have to wait until all the facts
> are in, but i don't see how swarbrick or kelly survives this. you can't
> have people DYING at practice because of gross negligence on the part of
> those in authority on the scene.
From a legal standpoint, wouldn't firing these two be a tacit
admission of ND's guilt?
Daniel Edwards
news:ib0lb9$6eh$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> dam added the following to the totality of all human wisdom on
> 11/5/2010 in writing
>> Hopefully there will be legal proceedings to follow...
>>
>>
>> "I have been informed by a source close to the situation that today
>> as many as 20 influential boosters met with Kelly and Swarbrick and
>> requested they resign from their positions. Neither man chose to
>> follow through with the resignations and some tension clearly left
>> the meeting room. One booster reportedly asked Kelly directly how
>> he could be unaware of the severe weather conditions to which Kelly
>> replied that he was unaware."
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/32u7pku
>>
> because it is KNOW, and I quote, it happened "under hardsh weather
> conditions"
Yeah, sorry about that. We brought the wind to the Memphis game when
they were trying to open Tiger Lane (their mini-grove, though with
fewer sundresses at night), then we brought the wind to the Midwest
that week.
We're the Golden Hurricane, what can I say?
(I can't say I feel that bad about beating Tulane just about every
year...)
--
Daniel Edwards
Memphis, TN
J.C. Watts Enslin
Well, an employee died using a scissor lift in conditions in which it
was unsafe. Isn't it obvious they are guilty?
After an initial period of silence, ND is getting crucified on Chicago
radio...and rightly so. Between the tweets the guy made before going
to work and while in the lift, the fact that other college coaches
basically said "it was too windy to use lifts," and some of Kelly's
initial comments about it being a "productive practice," ND is coming
off not only as negligent, but heartless.
And no waiver is going to protect them since he was an employee /
employer situation. Having two sons that same age, I can't believe
that they put him in that situation.
xyzzy
Those waivers are useless. They have no legal force, especially in
cases of gross negligence.
J.C. Watts Enslin
Exactly. The waiver was probably more about making sure the employee
didn't rsfck around with it and injure himself in the process.
Jon
Chris Mihos
Your last sentence is exactly how I feel about it (except for the fact
that I dont have two sons that age). That is, how in the world did
they let that kid get up on that scissor lift? Did nobody say "hey,
even if its ok to practice, we probably shouldn't have somebody up on
a lift?" And sure you can say "well, the kid should have gotten down",
but a) teenage kids are notoriously bad at identifying dangerous
situations, and b) what kid is going to tell Notre Dame that he
doesn't want to film -- they'll just send some other kid up there
instead, and his film job is over.
I'll let people who love arguing legalese argue legalese about who
specifically should be accountable, but the bottom line to me is that
somewhere in the ND football program a breathtakingly dangerous and
stupid decision (or accountable inaction) was made that cost this kid
his life.
deem...@aol.com
Yep, they're gonna take a hit....how big will be in part how they
respond to the situation. Juries tend to frown upon no one being held
accountable.
stephenj
yeah, but IIRC, since this is a workplace accident, ND wouldn't be on
the hook for some ginormous $20 million dollar suit or something. It's
probably more like a worker's compensation issue where there are big
caps on 'pain and suffering' for relatives and the like.
--
What is liberalism, generally speaking, but an attack
on the existing order of things?
- F. Dostoyevsky
J.C. Watts Enslin
My oldest son is a very smart, responsible student. However, if he
had this 'job, and Brian Kelly told him to go up into the lift despite
the wind, my son would have done so because he trusts people in
positions of authority. And now he'd be dead.
This goes beyond a "workplace accident." A workplace accident would
be if this guy were taping on the sidelines, and a player accidently
ran into him and he hit his head and died. This is negligance.
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
> Hopefully there will be legal proceedings to follow...
>
>
> "I have been informed by a source close to the situation that today as
> many as 20 influential boosters met with Kelly and Swarbrick and
> requested they resign from their positions. Neither man chose to
> follow through with the resignations and some tension clearly left the
> meeting room. One booster reportedly asked Kelly directly how he could
> be unaware of the severe weather conditions to which Kelly replied
> that he was unaware."
>
> http://tinyurl.com/32u7pku
"It's the crew and we've come to screw," said Barnacle Bill the booster.
--Tedward
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
> > > Hopefully there will be legal proceedings to follow...
>
> > i know there's an investigation and we have to wait until all the facts
> > are in, but i don't see how swarbrick or kelly survives this. you can't
> > have people DYING at practice because of gross negligence on the part of
> > those in authority on the scene.
>
> From a legal standpoint, wouldn't firing these two be a tacit
> admission of ND's guilt?
<
<Well, an employee died using a scissor lift in conditions in which it
<was unsafe. Isn't it obvious they are guilty?
With some degree of contributory negligence since the kid knew
it was dangerous.
--Tedward
Dennis J
matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain?
Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
this is true, but the responsibility for his well being still goes to
his bosses. if had fallen and gotten a broken Leg ND would have picked
up the tab and there still would be an investigation, but since the
kid died, someone's gotta take a fall.
--
"It’s been so difficult to get out of this recession because of the disequilibrium in the real economy.”" -- Paul Volcker
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.
deem...@aol.com
yep
Michael Press
<3db4a72b-1b2a-4f11...@u10g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
dam <dave....@gmail.com> wrote:
Some waivers cannot be enforced;
though I make no comment about this one.
--
Michael Press
Michael Press
<86b9b98a-2f22-4143...@z22g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
"deem...@aol.com" <deem...@aol.com> wrote:
Not going to a jury.
--
Michael Press
Kyle T. Jones
It's gone past that point:
"
SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- The University of Notre Dame president has sent an
e-mail to students, faculty, staff and alumni that says the school
failed to protect a student videographer who was killed.
Declan Sullivan died Oct. 27 when a hydraulic lift he was on toppled
over while he was filming practice on a day when winds gusted to more
than 50 miles per hour.
The Rev. John Jenkins sent an e-mail Friday afternoon saying that the
school and he as president are responsible. He also wrote that words
cannot express the school's sorrow to the Sullivan family and to all
involved.
He said the investigation into Sullivan's death is continuing."
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5768852
This will be settled quickly and, I'm betting, as quietly as possible
(given the publicity already - but I bet we won't hear much more from
the parents or school especially once they've settled).
Not sure that Kelly will pay the price - sure someone will.
Just a tragically avoidable event - comments from Enslin and Mihos kinda
moved me a bit (ghey).
Cheers.
Jim Gysin
stephenj sent the following on 11/5/2010 7:02 AM:
>
>> The boosters are just happy something bad happened so that they can
>> get rid of BriKell now, rather than waiting a few years, even though
>> he's not black. He doesn't appear to be a good fit at Notre Dame.
>
> i think any coach who (a) doesn't have his kick defense on alert for a
> fake when the other team lines up for a *46* yard FG that would only tie
> the game in OT, (b) has his true freshman QB getting his first
> significant game action throw a pass into the end zone with 20 seconds
> left when all that's needed to win is an FG and you're already
> well-within the range of your all-american kicker, and (c) fields a
> defense that gives up 400 rushing yards to an option offense that even
> Duke was able to beat, is (d) not a good fit for anyone.
If you say "well-within the range" often enough, do you think that
people will accept it as fact instead of misguided opinion?
--
Jim Gysin
Waukesha, WI
deem...@aol.com
> In article
> <86b9b98a-2f22-4143-877c-4a01cc67d...@z22g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
Why not?
dam
Kind of missing the point of the thread aren't you?
dam
-----
All bibles are man-made. - Thomas Edison
Carl Banks
No. I made a snarky comment about the priorities of Notre Dame's
boosters but Jaros took it at face value--he was the one that missed
that point.
Carl Banks
Michael Press
<323b5f77-89cb-4849...@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
"deem...@aol.com" <deem...@aol.com> wrote:
The matter will be settled before it gets there.
There is always the possibility that one side gets greedy, however.
--
Michael Press
Hoover
Kelly has turned out to be the ultimate bust
stephenj
lol. i didn't miss anything, was just more interested in discussing
kelly's fitness in a pure coaching sense, not the dead-kid sense.
--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."
- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official
DanS.
on 11/5/2010 in writing
We're under the sad misconception that firing someone, Notre Dame
paying a huge settlement with punative damages, or even someone going
to prison would solve anything or bring Sullivan back. Those things
are artificial man-made retaliatory measures that satiate the masses,
but no one that's truly effected by it personally.
--
Yours,
Dan S.
There are 10 kinds of people, those who can read binary and those who
can't.
stephenj
misguided? It would have been a 35 yard kick. He had demonstrated range
of 45-50 yards this year. What else am i supposed to call it? sheesh!
--
"No people in history have preserved their
freedom who thought that by not being strong enough
to protect themselves they might prove inoffensive to
their enemies".
- NSC-68-1950
J.C. Watts Enslin
No it's more than that. When you send a kid to college, athlete or
not, you entrust them to help guide them from childhood to adulthood.
When that trust is broken, it is very difficult to repair unless the
people whose who failed are replaced.
DanS.
I'm not saying the direct supervisor, and possibly even his/her
supervisor shouldnt' be fired. I'm saying it isn't going to make
anything better.
Jim Gysin
dam sent the following on 11/5/2010 5:50 PM:
> On Nov 5, 5:22 pm, Jim Gysin<jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> stephenj sent the following on 11/5/2010 7:02 AM:
>>
>>>> The boosters are just happy something bad happened so that they can
>>>> get rid of BriKell now, rather than waiting a few years, even though
>>>> he's not black. He doesn't appear to be a good fit at Notre Dame.
>>
>>> i think any coach who (a) doesn't have his kick defense on alert for a
>>> fake when the other team lines up for a *46* yard FG that would only tie
>>> the game in OT, (b) has his true freshman QB getting his first
>>> significant game action throw a pass into the end zone with 20 seconds
>>> left when all that's needed to win is an FG and you're already
>>> well-within the range of your all-american kicker, and (c) fields a
>>> defense that gives up 400 rushing yards to an option offense that even
>>> Duke was able to beat, is (d) not a good fit for anyone.
>>
>> If you say "well-within the range" often enough, do you think that
>> people will accept it as fact instead of misguided opinion?
>>
Well, since the original point seemed to be to spread false gossip like
a bunch of blue-haired spinsters knitting away on their porch rockers, I
didn't see the point of the point, so to speak.
Beyond that, thread drift happens.
Jim Gysin
Carl Banks sent the following on 11/5/2010 6:14 PM:
> On Nov 5, 3:50 pm, dam<dave.mel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 5, 5:22 pm, Jim Gysin<jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> stephenj sent the following on 11/5/2010 7:02 AM:
>>
>>>>> The boosters are just happy something bad happened so that they can
>>>>> get rid of BriKell now, rather than waiting a few years, even though
>>>>> he's not black. He doesn't appear to be a good fit at Notre Dame.
>>
>>>> i think any coach who (a) doesn't have his kick defense on alert for a
>>>> fake when the other team lines up for a *46* yard FG that would only tie
>>>> the game in OT, (b) has his true freshman QB getting his first
>>>> significant game action throw a pass into the end zone with 20 seconds
>>>> left when all that's needed to win is an FG and you're already
>>>> well-within the range of your all-american kicker, and (c) fields a
>>>> defense that gives up 400 rushing yards to an option offense that even
>>>> Duke was able to beat, is (d) not a good fit for anyone.
>>
>>> If you say "well-within the range" often enough, do you think that
>>> people will accept it as fact instead of misguided opinion?
>>
>
> No. I made a snarky comment about the priorities of Notre Dame's
> boosters but Jaros took it at face value--he was the one that missed
> that point.
You're not supposed to admit to the snark. :)
Jim Gysin
stephenj sent the following on 11/5/2010 8:32 PM:
> On 11/5/2010 4:22 PM, Jim Gysin wrote:
>>
>> stephenj sent the following on 11/5/2010 7:02 AM:
>>>
>>>> The boosters are just happy something bad happened so that they can
>>>> get rid of BriKell now, rather than waiting a few years, even though
>>>> he's not black. He doesn't appear to be a good fit at Notre Dame.
>>>
>>> i think any coach who (a) doesn't have his kick defense on alert for a
>>> fake when the other team lines up for a *46* yard FG that would only tie
>>> the game in OT, (b) has his true freshman QB getting his first
>>> significant game action throw a pass into the end zone with 20 seconds
>>> left when all that's needed to win is an FG and you're already
>>> well-within the range of your all-american kicker, and (c) fields a
>>> defense that gives up 400 rushing yards to an option offense that even
>>> Duke was able to beat, is (d) not a good fit for anyone.
>>
>> If you say "well-within the range" often enough, do you think that
>> people will accept it as fact instead of misguided opinion?
>
> misguided? It would have been a 35 yard kick. He had demonstrated range
> of 45-50 yards this year. What else am i supposed to call it? sheesh!
Why do you continue to refuse to factor for the wind?
Michael Press
DanS. <dslaug...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> We're under the sad misconception
[...]
Speak for yourself.
--
Michael Press
Sendek Q. Sendek
He's just following coach Kelly's example.
Antonio Veranos
> We're under the sad misconception that firing someone, Notre Dame
> paying a huge settlement with punative damages, or even someone going
> to prison would solve anything or bring Sullivan back.
Maybe you are; I'm not.
The fact that compensatory damages and other consequences won't bring
the young man back from the dead is no reason to deny them.
--
A. Veranos
What color does a smurf go when you choke it?