Kobe - wow!
Donkey Kong
just amazed at his mentality, here it goes:
"Some-times your shot is gonna fall; sometimes it might not-you got to
keep shooting."
If this ain't ball hoggin, I don't know what is.
--
You will succeed, not because of your military might or your
strength, but because of My spirit. (Zechariah 4:6)
Donkey Kong
George Shouse
Donkey Kong <ambc...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
F0Ks...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca...
>This is taken from an article in SLAM a couple of months ago, but I was
>just amazed at his mentality, here it goes:
>
>"Some-times your shot is gonna fall; sometimes it might not-you got to
>keep shooting."
>
> If this ain't ball hoggin, I don't know what is.
Ummm... Have you ever played?
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com
ambc...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Donkey Kong) wrote:
> This is taken from an article in SLAM a couple of months ago, but I was
> just amazed at his mentality, here it goes:
>
> "Some-times your shot is gonna fall; sometimes it might not-you got to
> keep shooting."
>
> If this ain't ball hoggin, I don't know what is.
Er, many other players have made similar statements. The point of
the statement is to not lose confidence in your shot.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tim Kanute
article because it's trash. That's the funniest thing I've heard out of
Ballhog Bryant's mouth yet. Remind me to put that right on the front
page of my Kobe Sucks page when it's in production...... when the season
starts.
"Sometimes your shots gonna fall; Sometimes it doesn't-you have to keep
on shooting though"
- Kobe Bryant
Donkey Kong wrote:
>
> This is taken from an article in SLAM a couple of months ago, but I was
> just amazed at his mentality, here it goes:
>
> "Some-times your shot is gonna fall; sometimes it might not-you got to
> keep shooting."
>
> If this ain't ball hoggin, I don't know what is.
George Shouse
That's confirmed.
Ask Earl Monroe, Bob Cousy, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West or any
other shooter in the history of the game "what you do when your shot is not
falling?"
Tim Kanute wrote in message <3624F553...@geocities.com>...
Chris Chandler
find a single quote from an NBA shooting guard
that says you should stop shooting if your shot
isn't falling.
Bonus points if its not: "you've got to let the
game come to you."
Go Lakers!
Chris Chandler
Paul Strettell
doesn't-you have to keep on shooting though" is NOT shoot the ball every
damn time, it is if the shot wide open u take it, if a shot which u normally
would make is open, u still take it OTHERWISE u force yourself deeper into a
slump. Once you have shot millions of repetitions and have consistent form
every single shot, shooting is 95%mental, and u MUST have a STRONG BELIEF
THAT EVERY SHOT IS GOING TO DROP. Shooter's Confidence, I'm sure you've
heard of that phrase before. Now Kobe is nowhere near the playa everyone
thinks he is, and he may not even get there. But enough of this playa-hating
bullshit, it is obvious that y'all have never played the game to any decent
level otherwise you'd understand what shooting is all about.
Peace
leer...@hotmail.com
"Paul Strettell" <stre...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> What Kobe actually means by "Sometimes your shots gonna fall; Sometimes it
> doesn't-you have to keep on shooting though" is NOT shoot the ball every
> damn time, it is if the shot wide open u take it, if a shot which u normally
> would make is open, u still take it OTHERWISE u force yourself deeper into a
> slump. Once you have shot millions of repetitions and have consistent form
> every single shot, shooting is 95%mental, and u MUST have a STRONG BELIEF
> THAT EVERY SHOT IS GOING TO DROP. Shooter's Confidence, I'm sure you've
> heard of that phrase before. Now Kobe is nowhere near the playa everyone
> thinks he is, and he may not even get there. But enough of this playa-hating
> bullshit, it is obvious that y'all have never played the game to any decent
> level otherwise you'd understand what shooting is all about.
Don't hurt yourself, they are trying to jump on the anti-Kobe bandwagon in
order to obtain their 15 minutes of fame ala juddon. These "discussions"
ineveitably will not be about logic and reason or even the facts, just
outrageous statements to try to bait those that want to make founded and
unfounded statements about Kobe.
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com
Well, they've been doing this most of the year. Most of the arguments
have little factual evidence to support them. This is done mostly
out of jealousy.
leer...@hotmail.com
And it will get worse as Jordan retires and NBA/NBC looks for their next
media babe...I just hope that Kobe keeps his head on straight and keeps
developing his game.
MeNaRD 523
>keep shooting."
>
> If this ain't ball hoggin, I don't know what is.
I don't know what you are talking about. Kobe is definitely not a ball hog.
This just states that no matter what happens in a certain game he will keep
trying to succeed. He has some great players on his team, and he knows his
place among them. I don't think Bryant would purposely do anything like that
Peace, Love, Empathy,
*~Menard~*
"I always knew I would look back on the times I cried and laugh, but I never
realized I would look back on the times I laughed and cry.
Tim Kanute
O'NEAL ON YOUR TEAM. You pass to him....
George Shouse wrote:
>
> OK, so Tim Kanute and Donkey Kong have never played ball, just spectated.
> That's confirmed.
>
> Ask Earl Monroe, Bob Cousy, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West or any
> other shooter in the history of the game "what you do when your shot is not
> falling?"
>
> Tim Kanute wrote in message <3624F553...@geocities.com>...
> >HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH I have that issue, but I've never read the whole
> >article because it's trash. That's the funniest thing I've heard out of
> >Ballhog Bryant's mouth yet. Remind me to put that right on the front
> >page of my Kobe Sucks page when it's in production...... when the season
> >starts.
> >
> >"Sometimes your shots gonna fall; Sometimes it doesn't-you have to keep
> >on shooting though"
> >- Kobe Bryant
> >
> >
> >
> >Donkey Kong wrote:
> >>
> >> This is taken from an article in SLAM a couple of months ago, but I was
> >> just amazed at his mentality, here it goes:
> >>
> >> "Some-times your shot is gonna fall; sometimes it might not-you got to
> >> keep shooting."
> >>
> >> If this ain't ball hoggin, I don't know what is.
Tim Kanute
kids in america (and canada) can dunk a ball real nice and do
commercials...so what.
Kobe has nothing to be jealous of. Brandy? Sorry, but she's no dream
vixen. His Salary? He's below the NBA Average. His Spotlight? Sure, but
many players get as much exposure and not as much backlash. Look at
Reef. He's probably the most promising young player in the game right
now and the media will come to him.. eventually. He didn't need to sign
up with shoe and drink companies before he had even played. He's going
to work his way up to that with his skills. Even if he does play up
North.
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <705shc$3b8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> leer...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > In article <90842047...@newsch.es.co.nz>,
> > "Paul Strettell" <stre...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> > > What Kobe actually means by "Sometimes your shots gonna fall; Sometimes it
> > > doesn't-you have to keep on shooting though" is NOT shoot the ball every
> > > damn time, it is if the shot wide open u take it, if a shot which u normally
> > > would make is open, u still take it OTHERWISE u force yourself deeper into a
> > > slump. Once you have shot millions of repetitions and have consistent form
> > > every single shot, shooting is 95%mental, and u MUST have a STRONG BELIEF
> > > THAT EVERY SHOT IS GOING TO DROP. Shooter's Confidence, I'm sure you've
> > > heard of that phrase before. Now Kobe is nowhere near the playa everyone
> > > thinks he is, and he may not even get there. But enough of this playa-hating
> > > bullshit, it is obvious that y'all have never played the game to any decent
> > > level otherwise you'd understand what shooting is all about.
> >
> > Don't hurt yourself, they are trying to jump on the anti-Kobe bandwagon in
> > order to obtain their 15 minutes of fame ala juddon. These "discussions"
> > ineveitably will not be about logic and reason or even the facts, just
> > outrageous statements to try to bait those that want to make founded and
> > unfounded statements about Kobe.
>
> Well, they've been doing this most of the year. Most of the arguments
> have little factual evidence to support them. This is done mostly
> out of jealousy.
>
Donkey Kong
MeNaRD 523 <mena...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>>"Some-times your shot is gonna fall; sometimes it might not-you got to
>>keep shooting."
>>
>> If this ain't ball hoggin, I don't know what is.
>
I wouldn't use the word definitely here. Him and his 40.8%
shooting in the playoffs, 42.8% in the regular season. What about his
astounding 2.5 assists on a team with Shaq and Eddie Jones? Even Shaq
got 2.5 assists, and he doesn't have himself to pass to.
If it was a guy like Mitch Richmond or Jordan saying something
like that, I wouldn't have a problem with it, cause they are the first
options, but Kobe? He is, at best, the third option on his team! The
guy shoots more per minute than SHAQ!
Don't get me wrong, I love to watch Kobe, that alley-oop in the
All-Star game was just awesome, and that fake-behind the pass hook shot
was awesome! BUT he HAS to shoot less.
And face it, the guy looks over his shoulder EVERYTIME he made
a mistake, because he knows Eddie is waiting ....
>This just states that no matter what happens in a certain game he will keep
>trying to succeed. He has some great players on his team, and he knows his
>place among them. I don't think Bryant would purposely do anything like that
>
> Peace, Love, Empathy,
> *~Menard~*
>"I always knew I would look back on the times I cried and laugh, but I never
>realized I would look back on the times I laughed and cry.
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com
> I wouldn't use the word definitely here. Him and his 40.8%
> shooting in the playoffs, 42.8% in the regular season.
Then again, players like Walker, Blaylock, Anderson, Sprewell,
Drexler, Jackson, Van Exel, Rider, Marbury, Van Horn, (shall I
continue?) have lower FG% than Kobe.
> What about his
> astounding 2.5 assists on a team with Shaq and Eddie Jones? Even Shaq
> got 2.5 assists, and he doesn't have himself to pass to.
Kobe 4.6 assists per 48. Shaq 3.1 assists per 48. Jones 4.1
assists per 48. Next.
> If it was a guy like Mitch Richmond or Jordan saying something
> like that, I wouldn't have a problem with it, cause they are the first
> options, but Kobe? He is, at best, the third option on his team! The
> guy shoots more per minute than SHAQ!
Kobe 21.3 FGA per 48. Shaq 25.3 per 48. Really now, do you look up
stats before posting them? Or is it just easier to post prevarications?
> Don't get me wrong, I love to watch Kobe, that alley-oop in the
> All-Star game was just awesome, and that fake-behind the pass hook shot
> was awesome! BUT he HAS to shoot less.
So do about 20 other players in the league who shoot more than Kobe.
> And face it, the guy looks over his shoulder EVERYTIME he made
> a mistake, because he knows Eddie is waiting ....
You got that the other way around. Why would Kobe look over his
shoulder to Jones when Jones is already in the game? Jones 36.4
minutes a game. They're not fighting for playing time as they often
play on the court together.
Donkey Kong
>
>> I wouldn't use the word definitely here. Him and his 40.8%
>> shooting in the playoffs, 42.8% in the regular season.
>
>Then again, players like Walker, Blaylock, Anderson, Sprewell,
>Drexler, Jackson, Van Exel, Rider, Marbury, Van Horn, (shall I
>continue?) have lower FG% than Kobe.
Right, so somebody else is worse.
>Kobe 4.6 assists per 48. Shaq 3.1 assists per 48. Jones 4.1
>assists per 48. Next.
Let me repeat: Kobe, is at BEST 3rd option, his job is not
to call isolation plays and score one on one. He is suppose to defer
offensive chores to his teammates, and score only when the opportunity
presents itself.
>
>Kobe 21.3 FGA per 48. Shaq 25.3 per 48. Really now, do you look up
>stats before posting them? Or is it just easier to post prevarications?
My bad, thought Kobe averaged 20 min instead of 26 min. But
when you compare the two, should Kobe even come close?
>
>So do about 20 other players in the league who shoot more than Kobe.
>
He is a sixth man (should be seventh, Rick Fox ...), and
there are 29 teams in the league. Let's not even take a team like
the Nuggets, Clippers and Raptors into play (they have no real
scoring threat), and Kobe still out-shot, at least 6 team's main
offensive output?
>
>You got that the other way around. Why would Kobe look over his
>shoulder to Jones when Jones is already in the game? Jones 36.4
>minutes a game. They're not fighting for playing time as they often
>play on the court together.
Rick Fox, Elden Cambell, Nick Van Exel, etc ....
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com
> Right, so somebody else is worse.
Alot are worse.
> Let me repeat: Kobe, is at BEST 3rd option, his job is not
> to call isolation plays and score one on one. He is suppose to defer
> offensive chores to his teammates, and score only when the opportunity
> presents itself.
He's 7th in the entire league in points per minute. He must be
doing something right. If Kobe is hogging the ball so much, why did
Shaq's points increase while Kobe played more this season?
> My bad, thought Kobe averaged 20 min instead of 26 min. But
> when you compare the two, should Kobe even come close?
5 shot attempts is a big difference.
> He is a sixth man (should be seventh, Rick Fox ...)
Rick Fox is a starter so what are you talking about?
> there are 29 teams in the league. Let's not even take a team like
> the Nuggets, Clippers and Raptors into play (they have no real
> scoring threat), and Kobe still out-shot, at least 6 team's main
> offensive output?
Kobe is better than most players on those teams.
> Rick Fox, Elden Cambell, Nick Van Exel, etc ....
Fox is a starter. Bench players do not look over their shoulders to
the starters. Campbell plays center unless you're going to claim
that Kobe is worried that Campbell is going to come in and replace
him at Shooting guard. Van Exel is a point guard. Kobe only plays
point guard in emergency situations.
Donkey Kong
<s_kn...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Donkey Kong wrote:
>
>> Right, so somebody else is worse.
>
>Alot are worse.
Doesn't mean he is good. I once failed a test, more than
half the class got lower grades than me (from class average), I still did
bad, didn't I?
>
>> Let me repeat: Kobe, is at BEST 3rd option, his job is not
>> to call isolation plays and score one on one. He is suppose to defer
>> offensive chores to his teammates, and score only when the opportunity
>> presents itself.
>
>He's 7th in the entire league in points per minute. He must be
So you wonder, how in the world could he be 7th in the league
in ppm, when he shoots 40% (not a lot of FT's either)!
>doing something right. If Kobe is hogging the ball so much, why did
>Shaq's points increase while Kobe played more this season?
Maybe Shaq was more concentrated on offense (see his drops in
most defensive categories. I know, stats does not tell all, but
just to give you an idea), better free throw shooting, adapted to
Lakers' offense, less injuries. Robert Horry played more, too!
>
>> My bad, thought Kobe averaged 20 min instead of 26 min. But
>> when you compare the two, should Kobe even come close?
>
>5 shot attempts is a big difference.
Yeah. 21 shots per game. Big deal.
One has to wonder, a guy like Tim Duncan shoots about 19 shots
every 48 minutes, David Robinson shoots 20.8 shots. Yet Kobe has
21.1 shots?
>
>> there are 29 teams in the league. Let's not even take a team like
>> the Nuggets, Clippers and Raptors into play (they have no real
>> scoring threat), and Kobe still out-shot, at least 6 team's main
>> offensive output?
>
>Kobe is better than most players on those teams.
Depends what you are looking for. For instant scoring off
the bench, sure. So you are stating that Kobe would have been the
first option on at least 9 teams in the league. Let's list the
29 teams, and who (I think) is better than Kobe at scoring.
Boston - Walker
Miami - Hardaway, Mourning
Nets - Keith Van Horn
Knicks - Ewing (hurt), Houston
Magic - Penny (hurt), Nick Anderson
Phily - Iverson
Wizards - Chris Webber (last year), Rod Strickland
Atlanta - Steve Smith
Charlotte - Glen Rice, Mason
Bulls - Jordan, Pippen
Cavs - Kemp
Pistons - Grant Hill
Paces - Miller
Bucks - Ray Allen
Raptors - none *
Dallas - Finley
Denver - none *
Houston - Olajuwon
Minnesota - Garnett, Googs
San Antonio - David Robinson, Tim Duncan
Jazz - Malone
Grizz - Shareef Abdur-Rahim
GS - Spree (suspended)
LA Clips - none *
LA Lakers - Shaq, Eddie Jones
Suns - Rex Chapman, Antonio McDyess, Kevin Johnson (if healthy)
Trail Blazers - JR Rider (ballhog), Damon Stoudamire
Kings - Mitch Richmond
Sonics - Vin Baker, Gary Payton
Didn't you say he was better than most? Hardly.
>
>> Rick Fox, Elden Cambell, Nick Van Exel, etc ....
>
>Fox is a starter. Bench players do not look over their shoulders to
>the starters. Campbell plays center unless you're going to claim
>that Kobe is worried that Campbell is going to come in and replace
>him at Shooting guard. Van Exel is a point guard. Kobe only plays
The Lakers sometimes runs the 3-guard rotation, when Elden site,
Horry at PF, Shaq at C, Eddie at SF, Kobe at SG and Nick/Fisher at PG.
Del Harris can take Kobe out and stick Campbell back in.
>point guard in emergency situations.
Yeah ... I know. He shouldn't play it at all. He's a natural
SG. Sticking him at PG is gonna kill him
Do I hate Kobe? No way, love his dunks, his attitude (so far),
and his playground style. Is he a ball-hog? Definitely. Can he improve?
Sure, but getting jocked by half the world, and accepted undeserved
praise is gonna give him a hard time. Remember Harold Miner? Flashy
dunker, quick scorer, problem - ballhog, no D. Look out Kobe.
>
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
S.Knight
ambc...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Donkey Kong) wrote:
> Doesn't mean he is good. I once failed a test, more than
> half the class got lower grades than me (from class average), I still did
> bad, didn't I?
Well Antoine Walker has a lower Fg% than Kobe yet he also made the allstar
team. So is he a failure as well?
> So you wonder, how in the world could he be 7th in the league
> in ppm, when he shoots 40% (not a lot of FT's either)!
42.8%. He ranks that high because he is a scorer.
> >doing something right. If Kobe is hogging the ball so much, why did
> >Shaq's points increase while Kobe played more this season?
>
> Maybe Shaq was more concentrated on offense (see his drops in
> most defensive categories. I know, stats does not tell all, but
> just to give you an idea), better free throw shooting, adapted to
> Lakers' offense, less injuries. Robert Horry played more, too!
Like you said, stats don't tell all, yet you're using Kobe's stats against him
as absolute.
> Yeah. 21 shots per game. Big deal.
> One has to wonder, a guy like Tim Duncan shoots about 19 shots
> every 48 minutes, David Robinson shoots 20.8 shots. Yet Kobe has
> 21.1 shots?
Yes and Kobe averages more per minute than both of them.
Reread your own statement. You said there were 6 teams and you named a few
lottery teams. That was what I was referring to. Actually even against the
best players in the league, Kobe's stats do measure up.
> The Lakers sometimes runs the 3-guard rotation, when Elden site,
> Horry at PF, Shaq at C, Eddie at SF, Kobe at SG and Nick/Fisher at PG.
> Del Harris can take Kobe out and stick Campbell back in.
Yes but you're claiming that Kobe is worried that Campbell is going to replace
him. That's a ludicrous statement. The point is, starters are the one's who
should be looking over their shoulders to the up and coming players off the
bench. Bench players relieve the starters not the other way around. Kobe is
only going to play a set amount of minutes so he's going to be taken out
regardless.
> Yeah ... I know. He shouldn't play it at all. He's a natural
> SG. Sticking him at PG is gonna kill him
> Do I hate Kobe? No way, love his dunks, his attitude (so far),
> and his playground style. Is he a ball-hog? Definitely. Can he improve?
> Sure, but getting jocked by half the world, and accepted undeserved
> praise is gonna give him a hard time. Remember Harold Miner? Flashy
> dunker, quick scorer, problem - ballhog, no D. Look out Kobe.
Minor never lead all bench players in scoring. Minor was never the youngest
starter in allstar history. Minor doesn't hold the record for most points in
the rookie allstar game. Minor can't shoot. Compare Minor's stats to Kobe's.
Kobe can shoot, he only needs to work on his shot selection. His FG% did
increase from his rookie year. His turnovers decreased drastically. His
defense has probably improved more than anything. The guy is only 19. What do
you expect from him?
burg...@keenuh.com
ambc...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Donkey Kong) wrote:
> >He's 7th in the entire league in points per minute. He must be
>
> So you wonder, how in the world could he be 7th in the league
> in ppm, when he shoots 40% (not a lot of FT's either)!
Actually, thanks to Stern and Co (i.e. the refs), Kobe does get to the line a
lot.
>
> >doing something right. If Kobe is hogging the ball so much, why did
> >Shaq's points increase while Kobe played more this season?
>
> Maybe Shaq was more concentrated on offense (see his drops in
> most defensive categories.
Bah. Easy. Just check out how much his offensive rebound numbers went up when
they put in Kobe.
--
Jeff
Unquestioned Leader, The Legion of Bo
To live beside the Outlaw, you must be honest
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com
burg...@keenuh.com wrote:
> Actually, thanks to Stern and Co (i.e. the refs), Kobe does get to the line a
> lot.
Yes, let's fall back to the nba conspiracy theory.
> Bah. Easy. Just check out how much his offensive rebound numbers went up when
> they put in Kobe.
Shaq 4.8 OR per 48 in 96-97. Shaq 4.6 OR per 48 in 97-98 when Kobe
played double the minutes. Why do people make stuff up without
looking them up? Next.
Donkey Kong
S.Knight <we...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>Well Antoine Walker has a lower Fg% than Kobe yet he also made the allstar
>team. So is he a failure as well?
>
do more work on his ball-handling, passing, and court sense. It is
also widely known that Walker is a ballhog, too.
>> So you wonder, how in the world could he be 7th in the league
>> in ppm, when he shoots 40% (not a lot of FT's either)!
>
>42.8%. He ranks that high because he is a scorer.
Wow! 42.8%! Oh lala!
So he is a scorer. He does nothing but shoot, but he doesn't
hit very often. He doesn't pass the ball well. By definition, that
is a ballhog! And damn! He isn't too much of a scorer, either.
3rd option (at best) on his own team! Weird that the first option
also grabs rebounds, the second option plays awesome D, too.
>> Maybe Shaq was more concentrated on offense (see his drops in
>> most defensive categories. I know, stats does not tell all, but
>> just to give you an idea), better free throw shooting, adapted to
>> Lakers' offense, less injuries. Robert Horry played more, too!
>
>Like you said, stats don't tell all, yet you're using Kobe's stats against him
>as absolute.
So I will talk about how he call isolation plays everytime he
got the ball? You want me to do that? If I wanted to talk about Stats
only, I wouldn't even have mentioned that sentence in the previous post.
You based Kobe's accomplishments on his Stats alone, such
as 7th in the league in PPM.
>
>> Yeah. 21 shots per game. Big deal.
>> One has to wonder, a guy like Tim Duncan shoots about 19 shots
>> every 48 minutes, David Robinson shoots 20.8 shots. Yet Kobe has
>> 21.1 shots?
>
>Yes and Kobe averages more per minute than both of them.
So you think Kobe SHOULD shoot more frequently than both of them?
If you do, you have some serious problems.
>
>> >
>> >> there are 29 teams in the league. Let's not even take a team like
>> >> the Nuggets, Clippers and Raptors into play (they have no real
>> >> scoring threat), and Kobe still out-shot, at least 6 team's main
>> >> offensive output?
>> >
I don't have to reread my own statement because you didn't clarify
on what you were referring to, do I?
Anyways, what I tried to say was this:
Kobe is 20th in the league in Shots per minute (or something like
that). There are 29 teams in the league, meaning that Kobe, being
the 3rd option of his team, actually out-shot, at least, 9 team's top
shooter! That is ball-hogging.
>
>Yes but you're claiming that Kobe is worried that Campbell is going to replace
>him. That's a ludicrous statement. The point is, starters are the one's who
Elden comes in, Kobe gets out, different setting, get it? If
Kobe plays bad, Harris has the option of taking Kobe out, and putting
somebody else in. Therefore, Kobe worries when he makes mistakes.
>should be looking over their shoulders to the up and coming players off the
>bench. Bench players relieve the starters not the other way around. Kobe is
>only going to play a set amount of minutes so he's going to be taken out
>regardless.
Hardly, in games he played well, he played more minutes. Yes, he
normally average about 23, 25 minutes a game, but he also have games in
which he had only 15 minutes, while 41 minutes in other games. See
nba com for details.
>
>Minor never lead all bench players in scoring. Minor was never the youngest
That's what I tried to say, he scored a lot, but do little else.
>starter in allstar history. Minor doesn't hold the record for most points in
That's another thing I tried to say, he is over-hyped, and it's
bad for him.
>the rookie allstar game. Minor can't shoot. Compare Minor's stats to Kobe's.
There were no rookie all-star game back then. Even if there
was, big deal. Go around and ask who really cares about rookie all-star
games.
>Kobe can shoot, he only needs to work on his shot selection. His FG% did
He can shoot, yet he needs work on his shot selection. Does that
mean that if he shoots less, it will benefit the team?
>increase from his rookie year. His turnovers decreased drastically. His
From 1.6 tpg to 2.0? I don't quite follow you.
>defense has probably improved more than anything. The guy is only 19. What do
>you expect from him?
I don't expect much from him. He is an extraordinary talent. I
just have a problem with the media, who keeps feeding him undeserved
praise, and some of his fans, which somehow, rated him as the best scorer
since Michael Jordan.
The kid needs work, and the crowd his giving him credit for
things he has yet to do. That's what I have problem with.
>
>
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B98...@aol.com
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Donkey Kong wrote:
>
> > Right, so somebody else is worse.
>
> Alot are worse.
>
> > to call isolation plays and score one on one. He is suppose to defer
> > offensive chores to his teammates, and score only when the opportunity
> > presents itself.
>
> Shaq's points increase while Kobe played more this season?
>
> > when you compare the two, should Kobe even come close?
>
> 5 shot attempts is a big difference.
>
>
> Rick Fox is a starter so what are you talking about?
>
> > the Nuggets, Clippers and Raptors into play (they have no real
> > scoring threat), and Kobe still out-shot, at least 6 team's main
> > offensive output?
>
>
>
> Fox is a starter. Bench players do not look over their shoulders to
> the starters. Campbell plays center unless you're going to claim
> that Kobe is worried that Campbell is going to come in and replace
> him at Shooting guard. Van Exel is a point guard. Kobe only plays
>
I have a question: Is Rick Fox married?And how come I don't see him in any
endorsements?
S.Knight
ambc...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Donkey Kong) wrote:
> Did I ever said Kobe was a failure, all I said is that he could
> do more work on his ball-handling, passing, and court sense. It is
> also widely known that Walker is a ballhog, too.
He's 19, you expect him to improve that drastically in so little time?
> Wow! 42.8%! Oh lala!
> So he is a scorer. He does nothing but shoot, but he doesn't
> hit very often. He doesn't pass the ball well. By definition, that
> is a ballhog! And damn! He isn't too much of a scorer, either.
> 3rd option (at best) on his own team! Weird that the first option
> also grabs rebounds, the second option plays awesome D, too.
If he's not much of a scorer, he wouldn't be leading all bench players in
scoring nor would he be 7th in points per minute. He does pass well, he just
doesn't pass as much as you want. He averages more assists per minute than
most of the other allstar guards.
> So I will talk about how he call isolation plays everytime he
> got the ball? You want me to do that? If I wanted to talk about Stats
> only, I wouldn't even have mentioned that sentence in the previous post.
> You based Kobe's accomplishments on his Stats alone, such
> as 7th in the league in PPM.
You argue with rhetoric and false stats. True I use stats but I have seen
every single laker game. Kobe doesn't shoot as much as you think. I'm not
saying he's not a ballhog, I'm just saying it's over exaggerated.
> So you think Kobe SHOULD shoot more frequently than both of them?
> If you do, you have some serious problems.
Facts remain, he averages more than either of them.
> I don't have to reread my own statement because you didn't clarify
> on what you were referring to, do I?
I was referring to your statement. Why would I refer to something else?
> Anyways, what I tried to say was this:
> Kobe is 20th in the league in Shots per minute (or something like
> that). There are 29 teams in the league, meaning that Kobe, being
> the 3rd option of his team, actually out-shot, at least, 9 team's top
> shooter! That is ball-hogging.
Er when did I say he wasn't a ballhog? I'm just saying he doesn't shoot as
much as you think. Plus I'm saying there are alot of ballhogs out there but
you singled out Kobe.
> Elden comes in, Kobe gets out, different setting, get it? If
> Kobe plays bad, Harris has the option of taking Kobe out, and putting
> somebody else in. Therefore, Kobe worries when he makes mistakes.
He wouldn't put Elden in for Kobe. Of course Kobe would worry about making
mistakes. He'll be taken out but not replaced by Campbell like you're
suggesting. That's another factor. Because he worries about being taken out,
it affects his gameplay especially his rookie year. This past year he knows
he's going to get playing time, the only question is, how much? During his
rookie year, he didn't know if he would play and often he'd only play a few
minutes. So in his 2nd season, since he knew he'd get a certain amout of
playing time, his play improved.
> Hardly, in games he played well, he played more minutes. Yes, he
> normally average about 23, 25 minutes a game, but he also have games in
> which he had only 15 minutes, while 41 minutes in other games. See
> nba com for details.
He played 41 minutes against Seattle because Eddie Jones had the flu. I've
repeated this many times in the past. Kobe comes in mid to late 1st quarter.
Leaves early 2nd, depending on how he plays, he'll most likely return late
2nd quarter. Then comes back in the game mid to late 3rd quarter and
depending on how he plays, he may play most or some of the 4th. Or depends on
the game situation. Often times, even if he plays well, he gets taken out. No
matter what, he's taken out early 2nd even if he hits every single shot he
takes. This is the set pattern of Kobe's PT. In games where Kobe played in
the high 30's, either there were players hurt or in foul trouble. Other than
that, his minutes are basically set give or take 5 minutes or so.
> That's what I tried to say, he scored a lot, but do little else.
No Minor couldn't score.
> That's another thing I tried to say, he is over-hyped, and it's
> bad for him.
Not good to be overhyped but being overhyped isn't going to turn him into
Harold Minor.
> There were no rookie all-star game back then. Even if there
> was, big deal. Go around and ask who really cares about rookie all-star
> games.
Point is, Minor never accomplished any of this. He couldn't score in the NBA.
> He can shoot, yet he needs work on his shot selection. Does that
> mean that if he shoots less, it will benefit the team?
No he needs to not force shots. There are times when he can set himself up
for a better shot but ends up making a bad decision. This improves with
experience.
> From 1.6 tpg to 2.0? I don't quite follow you.
He played double the minutes yet his turnovers didn't increase much? Hello?
Anyone there?
> I don't expect much from him. He is an extraordinary talent. I
> just have a problem with the media, who keeps feeding him undeserved
> praise, and some of his fans, which somehow, rated him as the best scorer
> since Michael Jordan.
> The kid needs work, and the crowd his giving him credit for
> things he has yet to do. That's what I have problem with.
If it's the media you have a problem with, you should be taking it out on them
not Kobe.
Tim Kanute
Strickland averaged over 18 assists per 48. What are you getting at.
Strick also averaged over 23 ppg per 48.PER 48 is a pathetic stat.
Reggie Slater has been the best scorer on the Raptors for 2 straight
season PER 48, but if they played him for the whole game, he wouldn't
come close to his PER 48 stats would suggest. Same with Kobe.
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> Donkey Kong wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't use the word definitely here. Him and his 40.8%
> > shooting in the playoffs, 42.8% in the regular season.
>
> Then again, players like Walker, Blaylock, Anderson, Sprewell,
> Drexler, Jackson, Van Exel, Rider, Marbury, Van Horn, (shall I
> continue?) have lower FG% than Kobe.
>
> > What about his
> > astounding 2.5 assists on a team with Shaq and Eddie Jones? Even Shaq
> > got 2.5 assists, and he doesn't have himself to pass to.
>
> Kobe 4.6 assists per 48. Shaq 3.1 assists per 48. Jones 4.1
> assists per 48. Next.
>
> > If it was a guy like Mitch Richmond or Jordan saying something
> > like that, I wouldn't have a problem with it, cause they are the first
> > options, but Kobe? He is, at best, the third option on his team! The
> > guy shoots more per minute than SHAQ!
>
> Kobe 21.3 FGA per 48. Shaq 25.3 per 48. Really now, do you look up
> stats before posting them? Or is it just easier to post prevarications?
>
> > Don't get me wrong, I love to watch Kobe, that alley-oop in the
> > All-Star game was just awesome, and that fake-behind the pass hook shot
> > was awesome! BUT he HAS to shoot less.
>
> So do about 20 other players in the league who shoot more than Kobe.
>
> > And face it, the guy looks over his shoulder EVERYTIME he made
> > a mistake, because he knows Eddie is waiting ....
>
> You got that the other way around. Why would Kobe look over his
> shoulder to Jones when Jones is already in the game? Jones 36.4
> minutes a game. They're not fighting for playing time as they often
> play on the court together.
>
S.Knight
Tim Kanute <citize...@geocities.com> wrote:
> 4.8 assits per 48. That's pathetic...... Shit, If I'm not mistaken, Rod
> Strickland averaged over 18 assists per 48. What are you getting at.
> Strick also averaged over 23 ppg per 48.PER 48 is a pathetic stat.
> Reggie Slater has been the best scorer on the Raptors for 2 straight
> season PER 48, but if they played him for the whole game, he wouldn't
> come close to his PER 48 stats would suggest. Same with Kobe.
Actually, that's pretty good. Most shooting guards don't do as well. Don't
know if Stricklands stats are that high, don't have time to look for it now.
Maybe later. However Strickland is a point guard. Point guards are supposed
to pass, shooting guards are supposed to shoot.
Donkey Kong
S.Knight <we...@concentric.net> wrote:
>> Did I ever said Kobe was a failure, all I said is that he could
>> do more work on his ball-handling, passing, and court sense. It is
>> also widely known that Walker is a ballhog, too.
>
>He's 19, you expect him to improve that drastically in so little time?
I thought I mentioned that I didn't expect Kobe to be good in
so little time, but I did say that I expected the media and his fans
NOT jock him so hard so early.
>
>> Wow! 42.8%! Oh lala!
>> So he is a scorer. He does nothing but shoot, but he doesn't
>> hit very often. He doesn't pass the ball well. By definition, that
>> is a ballhog! And damn! He isn't too much of a scorer, either.
>> 3rd option (at best) on his own team! Weird that the first option
>> also grabs rebounds, the second option plays awesome D, too.
>
>If he's not much of a scorer, he wouldn't be leading all bench players in
You keep mentioning how many points he scored, I keep mentioning
how bad he shoots.
OK, so here it goes. A prerequisite of being a good scorer is
to be able to select good shots. In other words, good shot selection.
>scoring nor would he be 7th in points per minute. He does pass well, he just
>doesn't pass as much as you want. He averages more assists per minute than
>most of the other allstar guards.
Newsflash, assists does not mean good passing, although in some
way it does reflect it. Tim Hardaway and Allen Iverson both ranked high
in assists, but if you ask me, not too much of a passer (only willing to
pass to the guy in a scoring position). Joe Dumars, on the other hand,
is an excellent passer, but he doesn't have too many assists (is it
4 or 5 throughout his career?)
>You argue with rhetoric and false stats. True I use stats but I have seen
>every single laker game. Kobe doesn't shoot as much as you think. I'm not
>saying he's not a ballhog, I'm just saying it's over exaggerated.
And I didn't say he is the biggest ballhog, I just said he is one.
Antoine Walker is probably worse.
[stuff about David Robinson and Tim Duncan shooting less per minute]
>Facts remain, he averages more than either of them.
And I have a problem with that. He shouldn't If he averages more
shots per minute that both, or either of them, it means that he should
cut back on shooting.
>
>Er when did I say he wasn't a ballhog? I'm just saying he doesn't shoot as
>much as you think. Plus I'm saying there are alot of ballhogs out there but
>you singled out Kobe.
So you agreed he is a ballhog, then everything is settled.
And exactly how much do you think I think Kobe shoots?
Because he is overhyped, and it could very well destroy his
future. See, I am a concerned fan.
>> That's what I tried to say, he scored a lot, but do little else.
>
>No Minor couldn't score.
He could, he could penetrate and dunk. Not as well as Kobe, but
he could score.
>
>> That's another thing I tried to say, he is over-hyped, and it's
>> bad for him.
>
>Not good to be overhyped but being overhyped isn't going to turn him into
>Harold Minor.
Agreed
>
>> I don't expect much from him. He is an extraordinary talent. I
>> just have a problem with the media, who keeps feeding him undeserved
>> praise, and some of his fans, which somehow, rated him as the best scorer
>> since Michael Jordan.
>> The kid needs work, and the crowd his giving him credit for
>> things he has yet to do. That's what I have problem with.
>
>If it's the media you have a problem with, you should be taking it out on them
>not Kobe.
OK, so I should say "Media - Wow!"
>
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Marko Marusic
Although we all know Marbury is the best!
s_kn...@my-dejanews.com wrote: