The South Pole Telescope
common sense
taxpayers dollars have been spent (or printed) through the US National
Science Foundation for this monster. It will easily approach $1 billion.
People risking their lives in Antarctica to run this thing. Why? What will
be the payback? All this money and risk for "maybe" a "potential" clue to
the evolution of the universe? More government spending gone amok. And we
wonder why the US dollar is approaching 0.5 Euro. The most expensive radio
telescope antenna in the world....where is the common sense?
http://pole.uchicago.edu/
Richard Clark
Hi Dan,
I thought you were generally for such things. To what do you
attribute this shift in feelings for science? After all, a cost of
merely $1B and some tears shed for no one yet put to any physical
discomfort when we've spent nearly a Trillion to no obvious gain and
certain death for thousands seems rather a whipsaw out of catatonic
lethargy. Should we turn our eyes toward the South Pole to the
neglect of the national paralysis in the middle east?
On the other hand, focusing on the South Pole, an interesting parallel
diversion of no immediate consequence in these threads, could also be
a way of distancing oneself from other embarrassments of mistaken
attributions.
Have you come to means by which you can reconcile the difference?
>On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:14:29 -0500, "AI4QJ" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Check N3LI on QRZ.COM ) http://www.qrz.com/detail/N3RI
where the gap between the two calls, all of two or three words or
links has easily upset your previous broken record for cognitive
fading.
73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
gwatts
> A huge 10m neutrino telescope in the South Pole. So far, $242 million in US
> taxpayers dollars have been spent (or printed) through the US National
> Science Foundation for this monster.
Cost of *one day* of the Iraq war: $275 million.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
So the cost of the SPT works out to about 21 hours, eight minutes of
Iraq War, and it will certainly last a lot longer than 21 hours. If it
will outlast the Iraq war is another question.
> It will easily approach $1 billion.
...or about 3 days, 16 hours of Iraq War.
> People risking their lives in Antarctica to run this thing.
Voluntarily. No one faces criminal charges for refusing to go and so
far zero casualties versus 3,966 in Iraq.
> Why? What will
> be the payback? All this money and risk for "maybe" a "potential" clue to
> the evolution of the universe?
More than that, do a little research and reading before you spout off
and confirm your ignorance,
http://www.nrao.edu/news/Technology_doc_final.pdf
> More government spending gone amok. And we
> wonder why the US dollar is approaching 0.5 Euro.
The reasons for the devaluation of the dollar have all but nothing to do
with what the NSF is spending, you should refresh your knowledge of
orders of magnitude and economics.
> The most expensive radio
> telescope antenna in the world....where is the common sense?
Certainly not in your head. Get a grip on the real numbers and facts
about the Federal budget and the American economy and maybe you'll have
something to say that doesn't sound like some parroted conservative
talking points, a/k/a lies and deception.
Congratulations to the SPT team on First Light!
http://pole.uchicago.edu/news/news_2007-02-15.html
- Galen, W8LNA
Yuri Blanarovich
"Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ktcir3l8p29r6ab2s...@4ax.com...
After all, a cost of
> merely $1B and some tears shed for no one yet put to any physical
> discomfort when we've spent nearly a Trillion to no obvious gain and
> certain death for thousands seems rather a whipsaw out of catatonic
> lethargy. Should we turn our eyes toward the South Pole to the
> neglect of the national paralysis in the middle east?
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC
Eloquent liberal commie crapola.
Clintonistas solution? Sit and wait for more WT like deaths on US soil, wait
for more blow ups and dead Americans on their own soil, ships, embassies
while "the perpetrators will be haunted down" rhetoric while screwing
interns and turning White House into a Whorehouse.
Vote for Billary or Hussein and make way for "negotiated peace" with nice
terrorists and have some order from Sharia law across the globe.
bada BUmBUm
back to no power in standing waves
John Passaneau
news:47b90d0d$0$16665$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
To further our understanding of the Universe and how it works is reason
enough.
Basic research always benefits mankind in the long run.
Some things are worth doing even if it does not produce better bicycle
wheels or more money in the pockets of oil companies in the near term.
After all Michelangelo could have used a paint roller on the ceiling of
that church. It would have been cheaper and quicker if he had. A nice shade
of beige would have been OK or maybe institutional green.
Ignorance is not bliss!
John Passaneau W3JXP
Physics Electronics Shop
Penn State University
Discloser:
I helped build some of the equipment for that project.
Cecil Moore
> Discloser:
> I helped build some of the equipment for that project.
What some may not realize is that most money spent by
the government, no matter how irrational the initial
expenditure, is routed back into the economy. This one
apparently paid for some of your groceries - a good thing.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com
Richard Clark
<K3...@optonline.net> wrote:
>Eloquent liberal commie crapola.
Thanx for the flowers Hussein.
Tom Donaly
The Cold War is over, Yuri. We won.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH
Michael Coslo
HOWL! Pretty cool - but
Yuri, you forgot to include:
Teachers and other liberals who fill our kids heads with claptrap.
Same sex marriage enthusiasts.
Gun control whacks.
Soccer Moms
Michael J Fox
Global Warming sissies
The French
People from Wisconsin
Now get back and rewrite that the right way, or you won't get an A on
your liberal bashing report.
For extra credit, do a good diss on moderates in the same paragraphs.
- 73 de Mike N3LI -
Richard Clark
wrote:
>For extra credit, do a good diss on moderates in the same paragraphs.
Hi Mike,
It would be far more interesting to figure out why for 12 years the
whining Republicant-get-dones never took care of:
1. An amendment to protect the flag;
2. A balanced budget;
3. A great reputation overseas;
4. A secure Nation (how many years on orange alert?);
5. Fixed or eliminated the Capital Gains Tax;
6. Building more refineries;
7. Cut backs on government bureaucracy;
8. Getting out of local Schools;
9. Unfunded mandates;
10. The deficit;
11. An economy that won't tank every 2 years;
12. The infrastructure;
13. Getting out of "nation building" (a crapola idea);
14. Handing the country over to the Chinese communists;
15. Taking care of the midget in North Korea;
16. Taking care of the midget of Cuba's Castro;
17. Taking care of the midget of Venezuela's Hugo Chavez;
18. Taking care of the midget Qadaffi;
19. Taking care of the midget in NW Pakistan Ossama been Forgotten;
20. Our brave commie allie, Putin;
21. Getting back the canal;
22. Stopping the flow of illegals (the raging Republicant-get-done
issue of 1988).....
and on an on and on.
David G. Nagel
> John Passaneau wrote:
>> Discloser:
>> I helped build some of the equipment for that project.
>
> What some may not realize is that most money spent by
> the government, no matter how irrational the initial
> expenditure, is routed back into the economy. This one
> apparently paid for some of your groceries - a good thing.
Cecil;
Good point. Also remember that for all the billions of dollars spent on
the space program and going to the Moon there is not one single doller
bill on the moon or in space except for some personal cash taken by an
enterprising astronaut or cosmonaut looking to make a quick profit.
Dave n
Rick
>
> It would be far more interesting to figure out why for 12 years the
> whining Republicant-get-dones never took care of:
> 1. An amendment to protect the flag;
> 2. A balanced budget;
Richard OB, I might take back what I said about you in my off topic post.
Clam it up, please. If it ain't antennas it doesn't belong here. Don't get
trapped into
this squabbling. You are a bigger man than that.
Rick K2XT
Ed Cregger
Ed, NM2K
"common sense" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47b90d0d$0$16665$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Richard Clark
wrote:
Hi Rick,
Your comment is duly noted (some might dispute the last statement). As
for being trapped, I exult in it (nothing easier than shoving a sharp
elbow into the soft doughy ribs of a fat decadent Republicant).
I've no problem with off-topic posts as the days of 1200 Baud
downloads have long slipped beneath the goo of LaBrea. The modern
miracle of killfiles for threads and authors easily takes care of the
static that sometimes floods the group (in fact, I have very few of
them - mostly oriented towards the CB/SW cross-posted fanatics that
are geared up solely for trolling). I've seen fellows complain about
a flood of M.I.6 postings, but I've never seen the original posts
except once to add the filters. Complaining is a sport here in its
own right where the solution is so obvious.
Being On Topic has no correlation to quality, unfortunately. Where
the author is overly repetitive - and we have several longstanding
contributors - I simply read one in maybe a dozen posts from them to
confirm, yes, more boring repetition. That trade in technical
pornography finds no censors calling for their abolition. It easily
surpasses Off Topic discussion and is an effluent that dilutes serious
correspondence overwhelmingly. But whatchagonnado?
However, within that drek there is sometimes either a remarkable
question, or a remarkable gaff that reveals an interesting turn. Then
there are trolls disguised as "remarkable" questions - such as this
thread and Dan's submergence into the shadows of anonymity to both
continue his sniping while giving the patrician appearance of having
departed this sewer in a moral outrage of disgust.
Heck, even your posting complaining about Off Topic discussion
constitutes Off Topic discussion (amazing paradox about this that must
have had the philosophers scratching their heads some dozen centuries
ago).
Michael Coslo
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:30:26 -0500, Michael Coslo <mj...@psu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> For extra credit, do a good diss on moderates in the same paragraphs.
>
> Hi Mike,
>
Because it is much easier to point fingers and assign blame than it is
to actually do something.
I've heard the bitching, moaning, and name calling for a long time now.
That's the only trick that pony has.
Cecil Moore
Is a reply to an off-topic posting also off topic? :-)
dfi...@nc.rr.com
> You sound like a Luddite. No offense intended.
Actually my ancestry is Irish. ;-) But I never top post (no offense
intended).
> >http://pole.uchicago.edu/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
green...@kato.net
wrote:
We must, as a nation, keep the sciences alive or we are doomed to
defeat in the world economy. Also, we must, as a nation, keep the
arts alive or face a culture that cannot understand what to do with
the science we develop and bring on our own demise.
common sense
"Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote in message >
>there are trolls disguised as "remarkable" questions - such as this
> thread and Dan's submergence into the shadows of anonymity to both
> continue his sniping while giving the patrician appearance of having
> departed this sewer in a moral outrage of disgust.
Hey Richard, getting back on topic. I haven't yet heard of a good
justification of the SPT other than some general sentiments about how we
need to spend money on science which has been, usually, a sound investment.
The HAARP antenna project for example has a defined purpose. The moon
exploration had a defined purpose. But what is the exact purpose of THIS
white elephant? That is really what my comments were related to. If you try
to find the purpose you will see a confusing conglomeration of attempts to
understand microwave cosmic rays and even exotic physics which are unlikely
to be confirmed empirically. Really, take a look at the white papers on
google. In reality, NSF has a budget. NSF MUST expend the budget or guess
what, they risk getting less money next year. That is how government
agencies work. NSF must be running out of ideas. They cannot think of
anything that has more direct benefit in understanding the universe than
constructing a telescope in the South Pole. I would think the hubble is
suffiently far from city lights and could do a much better job. Finally
Rich, you might try expending less effort on analyzing the motivations as to
why certain people write the things they do and more effort on the technical
content of what is being said. Just a suggestion.
CS
Richard Clark
<nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Finally
>Rich, you might try expending less effort on analyzing the motivations as to
>why certain people write the things they do and more effort on the technical
>content of what is being said. Just a suggestion.
Hi Dan,
I might if I weren't so provided with the amusing irony of your own
analyzing motivation. Technical content? The topic is coy troll that
has long died on its feet from intellectual anemia. The best you have
to offer is sputtering along with cartoon dialog in an attempt to
breath life into its corpse. Such effort is as entertaining as
uninspired clog dancing.
co_f...@yahoo.com
Back on topic! Sort of! Did anyone catch the story today about the new
Chinese Astronomical Observatory near the South Pole? The story is
from the New York Times and the writer states the observatory is 700
miles East of the South Pole! That statement is repeated again in a
picture.
Now, isn't that a good test for graduates of the American Education
system? Fortunately, the writer is working for a newspaper and not
somewhere important.
Paul
Richard Clark
>the observatory is 700 miles East of the South Pole!
Hi Paul,
Finally! The gristle of technical content that raises this topic to
equilibrium with inspired clog dancing. (Yes, I do note the
additional irony - the only redemption to be found.)
>Now, isn't that a good test for graduates of the American Education
>system?
Would seem to be on par with the cerebralsclerosis that has inflicted
this thread since its inception.
Cecil Moore
> Back on topic! Sort of! Did anyone catch the story today about the new
> Chinese Astronomical Observatory near the South Pole? The story is
> from the New York Times and the writer states the observatory is 700
> miles East of the South Pole! That statement is repeated again in a
> picture.
I strongly suspect it is 700 miles North of the South Pole. :-)
dfi...@nc.rr.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Does anyone know the size of the dish antenna they will be using? 10m?
From: http://www.thepoles.com/news.php?id=16912
12:08 pm EST Jan 15, 2008
(ThePles.com) A 17-member Chinese expedition team Saturday reached
Dome A, Xinhua reports. The scientists reached the dome with an
elevation of 4,093 meters at 11:45 a.m. local time (0645 GMT) after a
21 day journey.
Dome A or Dome Argus is an Antarctican plateau located 1200 kilometres
inland. Wikipedia reports that it is thought to be one of the coldest
naturally occurring places on Earth, with temperatures believed to
reach -90 °C.
While Mount Vinson (4,897m) on the southern part of the Sentinel Range
is the highest altitude mark in Antarctica; Dome A is the highest ice
feature, comprising a dome or eminence of 4,093 m elevation, located
near the center of East Antarctica and approximately midway between
the head of Lambert Glacier and the South Pole.
The perfect spot for an astronomical observatory
The team raised a flag and a memorial sculpture on the point.
Expedition leader Sun Bo told Changcheng Station in Antarctica over
satellite phone that all 17 members are well and will now select a
location for an astronomical observatory and China's third Antarctic
research station. The team will also spend 70 days on a scientific
project dubbed "The Panda plan."
This is the second time that Chinese scientists have arrived at the
dome after a similar climb on Jan. 18, 2005, the first ever by
mankind, Xinhua reports.
The first attempt to reach the spot was in 1997; it failed after 300
kms and 13-days, however marking China's first Antarctic icecap
expedition. Several more attempts followed, until on Jan. 18, 2005, 13
expedition members made the first ascent of Dome A.
The name "Dome Argus" was given by the Scott Polar Research Institute
from Greek mythology; Argus built the ship in which Jason and the
Argonauts traveled.
The coldest air temperature recorded at Dome A during 2005 was
-82.5°C. The lowest air temperature (-89.2°C) at the surface of the
earth was recorded in July 1983 at Vostok, which is almost 600 m lower
in elevation than Dome A.
China currently has two stations in Antarctica. Changcheng Station,
founded in February 1985, is located south of King George Island, and
Zhongshan Station, built in February 1989, is located south of Prydz
Bay on the Mirror Peninsula, east of the Larsemann Hills. The 17
researchers are part of China's 24th scientific expedition team to
Antarctica.
China launched its first expedition to Antarctica in 1984, since when
such expeditions have been conducted on an annual basis.
jawod
AI4QJ
> this thread since its inception.
Since his posts equal 6 in number out of a current total of 24 or 25% of all
posts with not one technical contribution, does not that speak to the
likelihood of one KB7QHC as a certain contibutor of the alleged
"cerebralsclerosis" condition that you say plagues this thread?
73 de AI4QJ
Tom Ring
> Have you come to means by which you can reconcile the difference?
>> On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:14:29 -0500, "AI4QJ" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Check N3LI on QRZ.COM ) http://www.qrz.com/detail/N3RI
> where the gap between the two calls, all of two or three words or
> links has easily upset your previous broken record for cognitive
> fading.
>
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC
Richard,
Interesting that Mr. common sense and Mr AI4QJ have identical digital
trails. But I'd bet you already noticed that. You'd think he'd know at
least a little about obfuscation. I mean, sheesh, at least he could use
a different release of the news reader even if he didn't use a different
feed point.
tom
K0TAR
Richard Clark
wrote:
>
>"Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>> Would seem to be on par with the cerebralsclerosis that has inflicted
>> this thread since its inception.
>
>Since his posts equal 6 in number out of a current total of 24 or 25% of all
>posts with not one technical contribution,
I didn't even lean on the copy button of the Xerox either which must
have absorbed your cognitive skills for two of 5 posts.
>does not that speak to the
>likelihood of one KB7QHC as a certain contibutor of the alleged
>"cerebralsclerosis" condition that you say plagues this thread?
No, not at all, but thanx for asking.
I still like the irony of your posting under three signatures - a
mutating plaque? Surely two other signatures (suitably inspiring that
is) would raise this clog hopper to Radio City Music Hall quality.
Common Cents, at least this troll has gotten you distance from your
fumbling Mike's call sign (another Xerox mastery issue).
Richard Clark
wrote:
>> Have you come to means by which you can reconcile the difference?
>>> On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:14:29 -0500, "AI4QJ" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Check N3LI on QRZ.COM ) http://www.qrz.com/detail/N3RI
>> where the gap between the two calls, all of two or three words or
>> links has easily upset your previous broken record for cognitive
>> fading.
>trails. But I'd bet you already noticed that.
Anonymity is a concept reserved for the techno-bourgeois when they
mistake if for what it actually is: the desperation of deniability.
Perhaps deniable inspiration will revive this corpse with how Common
Cents was a nomme-de-Web (the "Lie Circumstantial" used only to
forestall explaining that cognitive fade) artfully crafted for us all
to have immediately identified Dan behind those Foster Grants.
What a dilemma.
Tehrasha Darkon
> A huge 10m neutrino telescope in the South Pole.
Getting your scopes mixed up a little there....
This is the 10m -- http://pole.uchicago.edu/news/news_2006-12-01.html
This is the neutrino -- http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/NSD-
IceCube.html
> People risking their lives in Antarctica to run this thing. Why?
Becasue its their job and they signed up for it?
Just going there is risking your life. I dont think anyone is being
forced to work in Antarctica.
> What will be the payback? All this money and risk for "maybe" a
> "potential" clue to the evolution of the universe?
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~aas/SPT/goals.htm
> More government spending gone amok.
$242M (your numbers) in 4 years (since groudbreaking)... Hell, I can
think of a few govt handout programs that waste that much money every
year.
> The most expensive radio telescope antenna in the world....
Because we can.
Richard Harrison
"NSF has a budget. NSF MUST expend the budget or guess what, they risk
getting less money next year."
Yes. That is how government and much of industry which work on fiscal
year budgets work. Timing is predictable for expenditures on less
prudent projects too. Carefully hoarded approved budgets are suddenly
excesses at year end. They must be spent or returned to the treasury.
Return means a reduction of influence and power.
Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI