All-in-One PCs

[Alfred Molon]

Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
if yes which ones.

Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
4K resolution.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

[android]

In article <MPG.310eb7be2...@news.supernews.com>,

Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
> if yes which ones.

The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
hook up a screen of your choice!

>
> Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
> 4K resolution.
--

teleportation kills

[Alfred Molon]

In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
says...

>
> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
> hook up a screen of your choice!

Fine, but is there anything with Windows?

[Savageduck]

On 2016-01-24 13:17:04 +0000, Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> said:

> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> says...
>>
>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>
> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?

A Mac will run Windows as well as any other Intel machine.
...and you also have OSX to play with.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[android]

In article <MPG.310eed3c5...@news.supernews.com>,

Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> says...
> >
> > The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
> > the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
> > hook up a screen of your choice!
>
> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?

Why? Whatever! You can run W10 in Bootcamp IIRC...
--
teleportation kills

[android]

In article <240120161344159377%timst...@greenbee.net>,
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <here-013250.1...@news.individual.net>, android

> What does the fathead want Windows for?

I dunno... I have a cheapoo laptop for some logins...
--
teleportation kills

[Lewis]

In message <MPG.310eed3c5...@news.supernews.com>

Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> says...
>>
>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>> hook up a screen of your choice!

> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?

Who cares?

--
Today the road all runners come/Shoulder high we bring you home. And
set you at your threshold down/Townsman of a stiller town.

[Alan Browne]

Bootcamp is next to useless. Run Windows in a VM such as VMWare Fusion
or Parallels.

iMac's are fantastic. For a Windows user who has a monitor, keyboard
and mouse, the Mac Mini is a fine transition machine, but none come with
a quad core i7.

The newer iMac's with 5K retina displays are magnificent.

--
"But I am somehow extraordinarily lucky, for a guy with shitty luck."
..Harrison Ford, Rolling Stone - 2015-12-02

[android]

In article <iaKdncs6Md8dQjnL...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2016-01-24 08:28, android wrote:
> > In article <MPG.310eed3c5...@news.supernews.com>,
> > Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> >> says...
> >>>
> >>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
> >>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
> >>> hook up a screen of your choice!
> >>
> >> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
> >
> > Why? Whatever! You can run W10 in Bootcamp IIRC...
>
> Bootcamp is next to useless. Run Windows in a VM such as VMWare Fusion
> or Parallels.

Whatever, some have very little use for Windows. I boot it once or twice
per month on average...

>
> iMac's are fantastic. For a Windows user who has a monitor, keyboard
> and mouse, the Mac Mini is a fine transition machine, but none come with
> a quad core i7.
>
> The newer iMac's with 5K retina displays are magnificent.

I like to Lego approach... One pice broken? Then fix THAT one.
--
teleportation kills

[Alan Browne]

The only difference between a Mac mini setup and an iMac is the screen
and the brick. The Mac Mini has become a turd in terms of repairing -
though not as bad as an iMac which now involves ordering a glue-gasket
to put it all back together ...

So, for a photographer who needs a great displays and a powerful main
processor and pretty good graphics processor, the iMac has it all over
what one could do with a mini and 3rd party monitor.

If one wants the 'lego' approach one might as well stick to desktop
machines.

[David Taylor]

On 24/01/2016 13:17, Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> says...
>>
>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>
> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?

Yes, for example Dell offer 23-inch and 24-inch units. Their latest:

http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-24-7459-aio/pd?ref=PD_Family

Doubtless other manufacturers offer something similar. "All-in-one"
appears to be Dell's key phrase for these PCs.

http://www.dell.com/uk/p/desktops

The units have just a full HD display, though.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

[Lewis]

In message <ENKdnf03SM4bfjnL...@giganews.com>

You do not need a glue gun for an iMac.

There are significant differences between the Mac mini and the iMac.
Processors and GPU are the most obvious ones.

--
He wasn't good or evil or cruel or extreme in any way but one, which was
that he had elevated greyness to the status of a fine art and cultivated
a mind that was as bleak and pitiless and logical as the slopes of Hell.

[Alan Browne]

Indeed ... so coarse Dell seem embarrassed to list the pixel dimensions
on that impressive-to-the-innocent page of specs.

It's likely 1080 which is pretty coarse by today's standards.

My ancient (2012) iMac (27") is 2560 x 1440 and an up to date iMac
retina is 4096 x 2304 pixels.

[Alfred Molon]

In article <here-013250.1...@news.individual.net>, android

says...
> Why?

Very simple - I don't have any Mac software. And I have no clue whether
and how Windows will run on a Mac.

If Apple were offering Macs with preinstalled Windows (why aren't
they?), I would consider one.

But I'm surprised that you suggest a Mac, when almost everybody is using
Windows machines.

I couldn't care less about Windows vs Mac vs Linux vs whatever. But
since everything I have is with Windows, my next PC will be a Windows
one.

[Alan Browne]

I never said one did. What one does need is the glue-gasket to put the
screen bezel back in place after making a repair.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2546+Adhesive+Strips+Replacement/15624

>
> There are significant differences between the Mac mini and the iMac.
> Processors and GPU are the most obvious ones.

Yes, I alluded to that elsewhere in this thread.

[android]

In article <ENKdnf03SM4bfjnL...@giganews.com>,

Lego: If the CPU is a gonner then i get to keep the display. If the
display lost it then i get to keep the CPU. That's the way that I want
it.

>
> So, for a photographer who needs a great displays and a powerful main
> processor and pretty good graphics processor, the iMac has it all over
> what one could do with a mini and 3rd party monitor.

But I wanna pick the display meself!

>
> If one wants the 'lego' approach one might as well stick to desktop
> machines.

The MacPro isn't that different in the respect that it's a unit
separated from the screen
--
teleportation kills

[Alan Browne]

Yeah - Android x-posted this to the Mac group making it look like you
were interested in Macs as well - I picked up on it in the Mac group.

FU set.

[android]

In article <MPG.310f07a3e...@news.supernews.com>,

Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> my next PC will be a Windows
> one.

Oki...
--
teleportation kills

[Mayayana]

| Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
| if yes which ones.
|
| Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
| 4K resolution.

You might want to ask in a Windows forum if
you want to hear from people who actually know
about Windows.

The all-in-ones are basically budget machines.
Like iMacs, they have limited upgradeability, yet
typically cost far too much for what you get because
of the basic rule of electronics: Smaller costs more.
And like any kind of all-in-one, if one part breaks
you may have to junk the whole thing.

If you want the best possible display then I
wonder why you'd limit yourself to all-in-ones.
Presumably you don't need portability, so why
not just have a desktop computer and look for
the best monitor?

[android]

In article <-NmdneW6Z94BdznL...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2016-01-24 04:55, android wrote:
> > In article <MPG.310eb7be2...@news.supernews.com>,
> > Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
> >> if yes which ones.
> >
> > The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
> > the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
> > hook up a screen of your choice!
> >>
> >> Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
> >> 4K resolution.
>
> Yeah - Android x-posted this to the Mac group making it look like you
> were interested in Macs as well - I picked up on it in the Mac group.
>
> FU set.

Since oninalls is generally Macturf I thought that Alfred could get some
useful input from the Mac group. I was right.
--
teleportation kills

[Alfred Molon]

In article <here-AFC1DE.1...@news.individual.net>, android
says...

> Since oninalls is generally Macturf I thought that Alfred could get some
> useful input from the Mac group. I was right.

Indeed I got some "interesting" input. Somebody insulted me for no
reason.

I've nothing against Macs. It's just that my stuff is all Windows...

[Alfred Molon]

In article <n82ppp$3pa$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana says...

>
> You might want to ask in a Windows forum if
> you want to hear from people who actually know
> about Windows.

I asked in rpd - never posted in a Mac forum.

> The all-in-ones are basically budget machines.

Not really. Some are quite high-end (4K screens, I7 processors, 32GB RAM
etc.)

> Like iMacs, they have limited upgradeability, yet
> typically cost far too much for what you get because
> of the basic rule of electronics: Smaller costs more.
> And like any kind of all-in-one, if one part breaks
> you may have to junk the whole thing.

Unless you can repair it and upgrade it yourself. But unfortunately many
AiOs are stuff which is glued together :-(

> If you want the best possible display then I
> wonder why you'd limit yourself to all-in-ones.

Convenience - only one "box", no mess of multiple boxes connected with
cables.

> Presumably you don't need portability, so why
> not just have a desktop computer and look for
> the best monitor?

See above. In principle the ideal device is a 24-27" tablet with fast i7
processor, 32GB RAM or more, slot for SSD and slot for 2.5" HDD, 4K high
quality display (those with the new RGB LEDs), user upgradeable (user
can open it and replace/upgrade HDD, SSD and memory, weight as light
possible (< 2 or 3 Kg). With sort of a mounting bracket so that you can
fix it as a monior and take it off in case you want. Internal battery
not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of autonomy, in case the
power gets cut off for some reason.

But we are quite far away from such as a device. Currently on the market
you find only behemoths with up to 16 Kg of weight.

[Sandman]

In article <MPG.310f07a3e...@news.supernews.com>, Alfred Molon wrote:

> > android:

> > Why?
>
> Very simple - I don't have any Mac software.

What Windows software do you have that you plan on using on your new computer?

--
Sandman

[nospam]

In article <n82ppp$3pa$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
> | if yes which ones.
> |
> | Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
> | 4K resolution.
>
> You might want to ask in a Windows forum if
> you want to hear from people who actually know
> about Windows.
>
> The all-in-ones are basically budget machines.

wrong.

> Like iMacs, they have limited upgradeability,

most people don't upgrade.

> yet
> typically cost far too much for what you get because
> of the basic rule of electronics: Smaller costs more.

all-in-ones are not small nor do they cost far too much.

it's impossible to match the specs and price of an imac 5k with
separate parts, for instance.

> And like any kind of all-in-one, if one part breaks
> you may have to junk the whole thing.

nope.

> If you want the best possible display then I
> wonder why you'd limit yourself to all-in-ones.
> Presumably you don't need portability, so why
> not just have a desktop computer and look for
> the best monitor?

the best display is in an imac 5k, an all-in-one.

[nospam]

In article <iaKdncs6Md8dQjnL...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
> >>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
> >>> hook up a screen of your choice!
> >>
> >> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
> >
> > Why? Whatever! You can run W10 in Bootcamp IIRC...
>
> Bootcamp is next to useless. Run Windows in a VM such as VMWare Fusion
> or Parallels.

boot camp is perfect for someone who buys a mac and only wants to run
windows.

> iMac's are fantastic. For a Windows user who has a monitor, keyboard
> and mouse, the Mac Mini is a fine transition machine, but none come with
> a quad core i7.

the 2014 model doesn't, but prior to that they absolutely did.

the reason is because the quad core i7 has a different socket and it's
not worth making a separate logic board for a low volume configuration.

it also doesn't matter all that much.

> The newer iMac's with 5K retina displays are magnificent.

very.

[nospam]

In article <MPG.310f07a3e...@news.supernews.com>, Alfred

Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Very simple - I don't have any Mac software.

it's possible to sidegrade, including adobe.

> And I have no clue whether
> and how Windows will run on a Mac.

quite well.

<http://www.cnet.com/news/macbook-pro-declared-best-performing-windows-l
aptop/>

<http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-running-windows-8-on-a-mac-is-better-t
han-running-it-on-a-pc/>

> If Apple were offering Macs with preinstalled Windows (why aren't
> they?), I would consider one.

because people want os x.

those who want windows can buy windows on their own.

> But I'm surprised that you suggest a Mac, when almost everybody is using
> Windows machines.

completely wrong.

for photography, mac share is huge.

> I couldn't care less about Windows vs Mac vs Linux vs whatever. But
> since everything I have is with Windows, my next PC will be a Windows
> one.

your choice.

[nospam]

In article <MPG.310f14d9e...@news.supernews.com>, Alfred

Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Presumably you don't need portability, so why
> > not just have a desktop computer and look for
> > the best monitor?
>
> See above. In principle the ideal device is a 24-27" tablet with fast i7
> processor, 32GB RAM or more, slot for SSD and slot for 2.5" HDD, 4K high
> quality display (those with the new RGB LEDs), user upgradeable (user
> can open it and replace/upgrade HDD, SSD and memory, weight as light
> possible (< 2 or 3 Kg). With sort of a mounting bracket so that you can
> fix it as a monior and take it off in case you want. Internal battery
> not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of autonomy, in case the
> power gets cut off for some reason.
>
> But we are quite far away from such as a device. Currently on the market
> you find only behemoths with up to 16 Kg of weight.

such a device is not marketable.

[David Taylor]

On 24/01/2016 16:06, Alfred Molon wrote:
[]

> See above. In principle the ideal device is a 24-27" tablet with fast i7
> processor, 32GB RAM or more, slot for SSD and slot for 2.5" HDD, 4K high
> quality display (those with the new RGB LEDs), user upgradeable (user
> can open it and replace/upgrade HDD, SSD and memory, weight as light
> possible (< 2 or 3 Kg). With sort of a mounting bracket so that you can
> fix it as a monior and take it off in case you want. Internal battery
> not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of autonomy, in case the
> power gets cut off for some reason.

I have 10-inch tablet which plugs into a keyboard directly. The whole
package which runs Windows-10 was only about GBP 120 (about Euro 160).
I hadn't appreciated how convenient the tablet/keyboard until I actually
used it. Of course, it wouldn't meet your needs, but I can see why you
are thinking that way.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B014D847FS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

Now about GBP 140 or Euro 180.

[Savageduck]

On 2016-01-24 15:57:37 +0000, Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> said:

> In article <here-AFC1DE.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> says...
>> Since oninalls is generally Macturf I thought that Alfred could get some
>> useful input from the Mac group. I was right.
>
> Indeed I got some "interesting" input. Somebody insulted me for no
> reason.

Alfred meet Lewis, Lewis, Alfred.
You can thank android for that little interaction.

> I've nothing against Macs. It's just that my stuff is all Windows...


--

Regards,

Savageduck

[PeterN]

On 1/24/2016 8:17 AM, Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> says...
>>

>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>
> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
>

Yep! I use an HP Elite, which i have upgraded a few times. Added some
memory, cost about $70. A few years ago the HD crashed, cost to replace,
including labor under $200, including adding a second internal HD. I
recently added a new graphics card to support my new monitor. Cost under
$100. I have had the machine for a bit over six years. While there is
nothing wrong with Macs, I think the ability to easily upgrade makes it
a better machine for y purposes.
BTW my processor is an eight core i7.


--
PeterN

[PeterN]

On 1/24/2016 9:28 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2016-01-24 08:28, android wrote:
>> In article <MPG.310eed3c5...@news.supernews.com>,
>> Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>>>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>>>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>>>
>>> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
>>
>> Why? Whatever! You can run W10 in Bootcamp IIRC...
>
> Bootcamp is next to useless. Run Windows in a VM such as VMWare Fusion
> or Parallels.
>
> iMac's are fantastic. For a Windows user who has a monitor, keyboard
> and mouse, the Mac Mini is a fine transition machine, but none come with
> a quad core i7.
>
> The newer iMac's with 5K retina displays are magnificent.
>

Indeed it is. Many of Windows users find it works just fine, serves our
purposes and is easily flexible to meet changing needs. I am not machine
passionate. Nor do most Windows users I know, with one exception, fall
in love with Apple.
As for graphics uses, my daughter, who is a creative director, prefers a
windows machine. I have used both, and seen little, if any, difference,
except that not all Windows programs run well under VM. Also, despite
what some here say.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

A screw driver takes less space, and has other uses. ;-)

--
PeterN

[Mayayana]

| > Like iMacs, they have limited upgradeability,
|
| most people don't upgrade.

Most Mac users, no. That's one of the
major selling points of Windows: The computer
is really just a case housing a number of fairly
generic parts that can be swapped out or
upgraded as needed. And that's a common
thing to do. More to the point, Alfred Molon
sounds to me like the type of person who could
and would benefit from such flexibility, regardless
of whether "most" people who you know can
make use of upgradeability.

[nospam]

In article <n831rl$6ob$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | > Like iMacs, they have limited upgradeability,
> |
> | most people don't upgrade.
>
> Most Mac users, no.

it's not just mac users.

it's industry-wide.

> That's one of the
> major selling points of Windows: The computer
> is really just a case housing a number of fairly
> generic parts that can be swapped out or
> upgraded as needed.

that's not a major selling point of windows. in fact, it's not even
windows specific.

most windows systems sold today are laptops, which are not upgradable
other than maybe memory and possibly a hard drive. some windows laptops
even have soldered in memory and an internal battery.

> And that's a common
> thing to do.

no it isn't.

> More to the point, Alfred Molon
> sounds to me like the type of person who could
> and would benefit from such flexibility, regardless
> of whether "most" people who you know can
> make use of upgradeability.

unlikely, and it has nothing to do with who i know. go read industry
stats, should you wish to educate yourself.

normal people want to get stuff done rather than tinker inside the
computer.

[PeterN]

Bottom line. either will work. I personally would not consider an all in
one. I have a personal bias in favor of flexibility, which gives the
edge to Windows. Logic says why buy a Mac if you are going to run
Windows programs. I would be concerned about driver issues when the
programs update.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

So says our resident marketing expert.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

On 1/24/2016 11:30 AM, nospam wrote:

> In article <n82ppp$3pa$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
> <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
>> | Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
>> | if yes which ones.
>> |
>> | Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
>> | 4K resolution.
>>
>> You might want to ask in a Windows forum if
>> you want to hear from people who actually know
>> about Windows.
>>
>> The all-in-ones are basically budget machines.
>
> wrong.
>
>> Like iMacs, they have limited upgradeability,
>
> most people don't upgrade.
>

and exactly what statistical study do you base that statement. I asked
that question in the past, and no answer was given. Just wondering if
new studies have been completed.






--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <n8330...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>
> >> See above. In principle the ideal device is a 24-27" tablet with fast i7
> >> processor, 32GB RAM or more, slot for SSD and slot for 2.5" HDD, 4K high
> >> quality display (those with the new RGB LEDs), user upgradeable (user
> >> can open it and replace/upgrade HDD, SSD and memory, weight as light
> >> possible (< 2 or 3 Kg). With sort of a mounting bracket so that you can
> >> fix it as a monior and take it off in case you want. Internal battery
> >> not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of autonomy, in case the
> >> power gets cut off for some reason.
> >>
> >> But we are quite far away from such as a device. Currently on the market
> >> you find only behemoths with up to 16 Kg of weight.
> >
> > such a device is not marketable.
> >
>
> So says our resident marketing expert.

yet another attack. stick to the topic for a change.

do you really want a 24" tablet?? think about that for a moment. a 24"
tablet, and one with a whopping 5 minute battery life *and* with wall
mounting brackets.

if you think it's marketable, go start a company and build them. put
your money where your mouth is.

[nospam]

In article <n832r...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
> Bottom line. either will work. I personally would not consider an all in
> one.

then you're missing out on a 5k display.

> I have a personal bias in favor of flexibility, which gives the
> edge to Windows.

flexibility comes at a cost. by making that the priority, you
compromise productivity and user experience.

> Logic says why buy a Mac if you are going to run
> Windows programs.

if flexibility is your goal, then a mac is the way to go because not
only can you run windows apps but you can *also* run mac apps, making
it the most flexible choice.

> I would be concerned about driver issues when the
> programs update.

there's no need to be concerned. apple supplies the necessary drivers
for the hardware.

[PeterN]

NEWS FLASH!

There are folks who disagree with your market analysis:
2" to go, and most of the requested features are available.
<http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/cintiq-22-hd>

>
> if you think it's marketable, go start a company and build them. put
> your money where your mouth is.
>

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <n8344...@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>> See above. In principle the ideal device is a 24-27" tablet with fast i7
> >>>> processor, 32GB RAM or more, slot for SSD and slot for 2.5" HDD, 4K high
> >>>> quality display (those with the new RGB LEDs), user upgradeable (user
> >>>> can open it and replace/upgrade HDD, SSD and memory, weight as light
> >>>> possible (< 2 or 3 Kg). With sort of a mounting bracket so that you can
> >>>> fix it as a monior and take it off in case you want. Internal battery
> >>>> not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of autonomy, in case the
> >>>> power gets cut off for some reason.
> >>>>
> >>>> But we are quite far away from such as a device. Currently on the market
> >>>> you find only behemoths with up to 16 Kg of weight.
> >>>
> >>> such a device is not marketable.
> >>>
> >>
> >> So says our resident marketing expert.
> >
> > yet another attack. stick to the topic for a change.
> >
> > do you really want a 24" tablet?? think about that for a moment. a 24"
> > tablet, and one with a whopping 5 minute battery life *and* with wall
> > mounting brackets.
>
> NEWS FLASH!
>
> There are folks who disagree with your market analysis:
> 2" to go, and most of the requested features are available.
> <http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/cintiq-22-hd>

that's not remotely close to what alfred was describing.

[Alfred Molon]

In article <n831rl$6ob$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana says...

> Most Mac users, no. That's one of the
> major selling points of Windows: The computer
> is really just a case housing a number of fairly
> generic parts that can be swapped out or
> upgraded as needed. And that's a common
> thing to do. More to the point, Alfred Molon
> sounds to me like the type of person who could
> and would benefit from such flexibility, regardless
> of whether "most" people who you know can
> make use of upgradeability.

What I usually do with my notebook PCs is to replace the HDDs with
larger and/or faster units, when there is the need and the replacement
is affordable. I'm also currently pondering if I should replace the 8GB
RAM module in my notebook with a 16GB one, but I don't know if the 16GB
one will work. In any case, an AiO PC shoudl be user-upgradeable, but
unfortunately some of the more interesting ones currently are not (case
glued together).

[PeterN]

On 1/24/2016 1:04 PM, nospam wrote:

> In article <n832r...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN
> <pete...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Bottom line. either will work. I personally would not consider an all in
>> one.
>
> then you're missing out on a 5k display.

I'll manage to survive, an

>
>> I have a personal bias in favor of flexibility, which gives the
>> edge to Windows.
>
> flexibility comes at a cost. by making that the priority, you
> compromise productivity and user experience.
>

Based upon the images you have shown us, you have zero productivity.
"User experience" is an undefinable marketing term. I forgot you are a
marketing expert.

>> Logic says why buy a Mac if you are going to run
>> Windows programs.
>
> if flexibility is your goal, then a mac is the way to go because not
> only can you run windows apps but you can *also* run mac apps, making
> it the most flexible choice.

Yawn. You sound like a used car salesman.

>
>> I would be concerned about driver issues when the
>> programs update.
>
> there's no need to be concerned. apple supplies the necessary drivers
> for the hardware.
>

Gee that's not what some of my friends at Apple say, off the record.


--
PeterN

[PeterN]

On 1/24/2016 1:04 PM, nospam wrote:

> In article <n8330...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN
> <pete...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> See above. In principle the ideal device is a 24-27" tablet with fast i7
>>>> processor, 32GB RAM or more, slot for SSD and slot for 2.5" HDD, 4K high
>>>> quality display (those with the new RGB LEDs), user upgradeable (user
>>>> can open it and replace/upgrade HDD, SSD and memory, weight as light
>>>> possible (< 2 or 3 Kg). With sort of a mounting bracket so that you can
>>>> fix it as a monior and take it off in case you want. Internal battery
>>>> not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of autonomy, in case the
>>>> power gets cut off for some reason.
>>>>
>>>> But we are quite far away from such as a device. Currently on the market
>>>> you find only behemoths with up to 16 Kg of weight.
>>>
>>> such a device is not marketable.
>>>
>>
>> So says our resident marketing expert.
>
> yet another attack. stick to the topic for a change.

So calling you a marketing expert is an attack?
And questioning the credibility of an affirmative statement, is off topic.
You do indeed have some strange definitions.

>
> do you really want a 24" tablet?? think about that for a moment. a 24"
> tablet, and one with a whopping 5 minute battery life *and* with wall
> mounting brackets.
>
> if you think it's marketable, go start a company and build them. put
> your money where your mouth is.
>

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <n834f...@news7.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> Bottom line. either will work. I personally would not consider an all in
> >> one.
> >
> > then you're missing out on a 5k display.
>
> I'll manage to survive, an

maybe you'll manage to complete the sentence.

> >> I have a personal bias in favor of flexibility, which gives the
> >> edge to Windows.
> >
> > flexibility comes at a cost. by making that the priority, you
> > compromise productivity and user experience.
> >
>
> Based upon the images you have shown us, you have zero productivity.
> "User experience" is an undefinable marketing term.

it's not undefinable at all.

> I forgot you are a
> marketing expert.

yet another attack. try sticking to the topic for a change.

> >> Logic says why buy a Mac if you are going to run
> >> Windows programs.
> >
> > if flexibility is your goal, then a mac is the way to go because not
> > only can you run windows apps but you can *also* run mac apps, making
> > it the most flexible choice.
>
> Yawn. You sound like a used car salesman.

yet another attack. try sticking to the topic for a change.

> >> I would be concerned about driver issues when the
> >> programs update.
> >
> > there's no need to be concerned. apple supplies the necessary drivers
> > for the hardware.
> >
>
> Gee that's not what some of my friends at Apple say, off the record.

unless you give specifics, that's nothing more than bullshit.

[nospam]

In article <n834n...@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>> See above. In principle the ideal device is a 24-27" tablet with fast i7
> >>>> processor, 32GB RAM or more, slot for SSD and slot for 2.5" HDD, 4K high
> >>>> quality display (those with the new RGB LEDs), user upgradeable (user
> >>>> can open it and replace/upgrade HDD, SSD and memory, weight as light
> >>>> possible (< 2 or 3 Kg). With sort of a mounting bracket so that you can
> >>>> fix it as a monior and take it off in case you want. Internal battery
> >>>> not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of autonomy, in case the
> >>>> power gets cut off for some reason.
> >>>>
> >>>> But we are quite far away from such as a device. Currently on the market
> >>>> you find only behemoths with up to 16 Kg of weight.
> >>>
> >>> such a device is not marketable.
> >>>
> >>
> >> So says our resident marketing expert.
> >
> > yet another attack. stick to the topic for a change.
>
> So calling you a marketing expert is an attack?
> And questioning the credibility of an affirmative statement, is off topic.
> You do indeed have some strange definitions.

you know quite well it was not intended as a compliment.

so what will you be calling your newly founded company that will be
building and selling such a device and when can we expect to see the
first prototypes?

[PeterN]

Assuming I had a desire to go into manufacturing, which I don't, I have
no obligation to give you any information.
Besides, I have other more potentially lucrative investments. Which I
would be happy to discuss with you, for an appropriate fee.

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <n8360...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>>>
> >>>>> such a device is not marketable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So says our resident marketing expert.
> >>>
> >>> yet another attack. stick to the topic for a change.
> >>
> >> So calling you a marketing expert is an attack?
> >> And questioning the credibility of an affirmative statement, is off topic.
> >> You do indeed have some strange definitions.
> >
> > you know quite well it was not intended as a compliment.
> >
> > so what will you be calling your newly founded company that will be
> > building and selling such a device and when can we expect to see the
> > first prototypes?
> >
>
> Assuming I had a desire to go into manufacturing, which I don't, I have
> no obligation to give you any information.
> Besides, I have other more potentially lucrative investments. Which I
> would be happy to discuss with you, for an appropriate fee.

translated, "it's not marketable".

[n...@this.time]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 10:28:48 +0100, Alfred Molon
<alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
>if yes which ones.
>
>Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
>4K resolution.

I never thought I end up with a Mac or an all-in-one, but here I am,
sitting in front of a 5K iMac.

It's really nice.

[RJH]

On 24/01/2016 09:28, Alfred Molon wrote:
> Just curious if anyone is using all in one PCs for image processing and
> if yes which ones.
>
> Personally I'm currently eyeing some models with a 24" or 27" screen and
> 4K resolution.
>

FWIW, and with deference to the other more experienced contributors to
this thread, I use an iMac Retina 27" i5 with an optional SSD, and I
think it might suit your needs well. It's fast, very quiet, is well
made, and has a superb screen.

I've installed Windows 10 on a partiton ('Bootcamp' - Mac software to
enable booting into Windows) and it seems to work well.

I think the key variables are how much money you have to spend, and the
Windows software you rely on.

The other thing is hard disk upgrade ability - not that easy on an iMac.
I use a combination of 500GB internal SSD, multi-TB NAS, and Apple
online storage to manage my 100GB of photos. Just about the only thing
that is easy to upgrade is the RAM (to 32GB IIRC).

--
Cheers, Rob

[PeterN]

As usual you have drawn yet another asinine conclusion. I have no
interest in opening, or purchasing a Cocoa Cola bottling plant.
According to your logic, cocoa Cola is not marketable either.

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <n8387...@news7.newsguy.com>, PeterN

straw man.

provide facts that it's marketable.

why would someone want to buy a 24" tablet with 5 minute battery life
and wall mount brackets. the whole concept is stupid.

[android]

In article <n8360...@news3.newsguy.com>,
PeterN <pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Besides, I have other more potentially lucrative investments. Which I
> would be happy to discuss with you, for an appropriate fee.

Snakeoils are back on the streets, huh?
--
teleportation kills

[PeterN]

You made the statement. All you need to do is make you statement as an
opinion, not as a fact.

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <n8390...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>>> so what will you be calling your newly founded company that will be
> >>>>> building and selling such a device and when can we expect to see the
> >>>>> first prototypes?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Assuming I had a desire to go into manufacturing, which I don't, I have
> >>>> no obligation to give you any information.
> >>>> Besides, I have other more potentially lucrative investments. Which I
> >>>> would be happy to discuss with you, for an appropriate fee.
> >>>
> >>> translated, "it's not marketable".
> >>>
> >>
> >> As usual you have drawn yet another asinine conclusion. I have no
> >> interest in opening, or purchasing a Cocoa Cola bottling plant.
> >> According to your logic, cocoa Cola is not marketable either.
> >
> > straw man.
> >
> > provide facts that it's marketable.
> >
> > why would someone want to buy a 24" tablet with 5 minute battery life
> > and wall mount brackets. the whole concept is stupid.
> >
>
> You made the statement. All you need to do is make you statement as an
> opinion, not as a fact.

answer the question.

i'll ask it another way. what is the use case for a 24" tablet with a 5
minute battery and wall mount brackets. what problem does it solve.

[PeterN]

There are at least five that you need to answer first.

--
PeterN

[Lewis]

In message <-Nmdneq6Z94-dDnL...@giganews.com>

Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-01-24 09:58, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <ENKdnf03SM4bfjnL...@giganews.com>
>> Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2016-01-24 09:40, android wrote:
>>>> In article <iaKdncs6Md8dQjnL...@giganews.com>,
>>>> Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2016-01-24 08:28, android wrote:

>>>>>> In article <MPG.310eed3c5...@news.supernews.com>,

Sorry. I read "glue-gasket" as glue gun. The letters are practically the
same!


--
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

[Lewis]

In message <MPG.310f07a3e...@news.supernews.com>
Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <here-013250.1...@news.individual.net>, android
> says...
>> Why?

> Very simple - I don't have any Mac software. And I have no clue whether
> and how Windows will run on a Mac.

> If Apple were offering Macs with preinstalled Windows (why aren't
> they?), I would consider one.

> But I'm surprised that you suggest a Mac, when almost everybody is using
> Windows machines.

> I couldn't care less about Windows vs Mac vs Linux vs whatever. But
> since everything I have is with Windows, my next PC will be a Windows
> one.

Apple makes the best Windows laptops.

--
Footnote on the High Energy Magic building: It was here that the thaum,
hitherto believed to be the smallest possible particle of magic, was
successfully demonstrated to be made up of resons (lit: 'Thing-ies) or
reality fragments. Currently research indicates that each reson is
itself made up of a combination of at least five 'flavours', known as
'up', 'down', 'sideways', 'sex appeal' and 'peppermint'.

[Lewis]

In message <-Nmdneu6Z95ndTnL...@giganews.com>
Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-01-24 09:46, David Taylor wrote:

>> On 24/01/2016 13:17, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>>>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>>>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>>>
>>> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
>>

>> Yes, for example Dell offer 23-inch and 24-inch units. Their latest:
>>
>> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-24-7459-aio/pd?ref=PD_Family
>>
>> Doubtless other manufacturers offer something similar. "All-in-one"
>> appears to be Dell's key phrase for these PCs.
>>
>> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/desktops
>>
>> The units have just a full HD display, though.

> Indeed ... so coarse Dell seem embarrassed to list the pixel dimensions
> on that impressive-to-the-innocent page of specs.

> It's likely 1080 which is pretty coarse by today's standards.

> My ancient (2012) iMac (27") is 2560 x 1440 and an up to date iMac
> retina is 4096 x 2304 pixels.

No. It is 5120x2880 (exactly double the non-retina in each direction).



--
There are strange things done in the midnight sun/By the men who moil
for gold; The Arctic trails have their secret tales/That would make your
blood run cold; The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,/But the
queerest they ever did see Was the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge/
When I cremated Sam McGee

[JF Mezei]

On 2016-01-24 04:55, android wrote:

> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
> hook up a screen of your choice!

This assumes Apple wants the Mini and separate screens to continue to be
part of its product lineup (along with MacPro). Apple is a mass market
company, not someone like IBM, so you cannot count on a product strategy
to be long term.

Nothing wrong with buying a mini or macpro with separate screen today if
those fit your needs. But I have learned the hard way with my purchase
of expensive xserve to not trust that Apple will continue a product line
that is not mass produced.


The mini and MacPro have slower product refresh cycle which means that
depending on when you buy it, you may have the latest/greatest chip, or
a fairly old one because the model hasn't been updated in a while.

[JF Mezei]

On 2016-01-24 08:17, Alfred Molon wrote:

> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?

With Windows now supporting EFI, is "Bootcamp" still necessary ?

I realise that Apple may still need to provide Mac hardware specific
drivers for the Windows OS, but just wondering if the initial boot still
needs special handling that Windows can't do on its own.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2016-01-24, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-01-24 04:55, android wrote:
>
>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>
> This assumes Apple wants the Mini and separate screens to continue to be
> part of its product lineup (along with MacPro).

No, it doesn't make any such assumption. And there are no signs that
Apple will drop the Mac mini or Mac Pro. You are spreading FUD as usual.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Jolly Roger]

On 2016-01-24, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2016-01-24 08:17, Alfred Molon wrote:
>
>> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
>
> With Windows now supporting EFI, is "Bootcamp" still necessary ?

Of course, but since it is built-in there is no need to attempt to do
without.

[android]

In article <slrnnaacf8....@amelia.local>,

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

Dr Merckwurdigerlibe was a goood movie...
--
teleportation kills

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:24:04 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

Don't you read or have just got locked in argumentative mode?

"Internal battery not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of
autonomy, in case the power gets cut off for some reason."

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:04:10 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <n832r...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN

><pete...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Bottom line. either will work. I personally would not consider an all in
>> one.
>
>then you're missing out on a 5k display.
>

>> I have a personal bias in favor of flexibility, which gives the
>> edge to Windows.
>
>flexibility comes at a cost. by making that the priority, you
>compromise productivity and user experience.
>

>> Logic says why buy a Mac if you are going to run
>> Windows programs.
>
>if flexibility is your goal, then a mac is the way to go because not
>only can you run windows apps but you can *also* run mac apps, making
>it the most flexible choice.
>

>> I would be concerned about driver issues when the
>> programs update.
>
>there's no need to be concerned. apple supplies the necessary drivers
>for the hardware.

But do they concern themselves with drivers compatible with Windows
applications? I think not.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[android]

In article <56a5337c$0$15689$c3e8da3$9dec...@news.astraweb.com>,

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2016-01-24 04:55, android wrote:
>
> > The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
> > the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
> > hook up a screen of your choice!
>
>
> This assumes Apple wants the Mini and separate screens to continue to be
> part of its product lineup (along with MacPro). Apple is a mass market
> company, not someone like IBM, so you cannot count on a product strategy
> to be long term.

No reason not to use existing options while they exist. It's rather a
signal to the MF that the product is desired.

>
> Nothing wrong with buying a mini or macpro with separate screen today if
> those fit your needs. But I have learned the hard way with my purchase
> of expensive xserve to not trust that Apple will continue a product line
> that is not mass produced.

Soo... you'll get a allinone the next time, if the Mini or Pro is off
the market. Or turn to another supplier. I think that I would do the
latter, but am not sure.

>
> The mini and MacPro have slower product refresh cycle which means that
> depending on when you buy it, you may have the latest/greatest chip, or
> a fairly old one because the model hasn't been updated in a while.

--
teleportation kills

[android]

In article <3geaabtfblsq1ict2...@4ax.com>,

app > os > driver > hardware ...
--
teleportation kills

[nospam]

In article <67eaab5an66m1clnh...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >
> >why would someone want to buy a 24" tablet with 5 minute battery life
> >and wall mount brackets. the whole concept is stupid.
>
> Don't you read or have just got locked in argumentative mode?

i read.

> "Internal battery not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of
> autonomy, in case the power gets cut off for some reason."

that's what an external ups is for, and it can last for much longer
than 5 minutes too.

there is *no* need to put a battery inside something that normally runs
off of wall power or mounts on a wall. it's a complete waste of time
and money.

now try to justify a wall mounted 24" tablet. are you going to stand in
front of it all day?

it's a dumb idea.

[nospam]

In article <3geaabtfblsq1ict2...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >
> >> I would be concerned about driver issues when the
> >> programs update.
> >
> >there's no need to be concerned. apple supplies the necessary drivers
> >for the hardware.
>
> But do they concern themselves with drivers compatible with Windows
> applications? I think not.

apps don't care about drivers. they talk to windows apis, which talk to
the hardware drivers.

tl;dr - it's a complete nonissue. it's fud. ignore it.

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:01:42 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

I wouldn't mind getting my two 24" screens off my desk and onto the
wall, along with their four not very flexible cables.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[nospam]

In article <npgaabh5o8egqs67e...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >why would someone want to buy a 24" tablet with 5 minute battery life
> >> >and wall mount brackets. the whole concept is stupid.
> >>
> >> Don't you read or have just got locked in argumentative mode?
> >
> >i read.
> >
> >> "Internal battery not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of
> >> autonomy, in case the power gets cut off for some reason."
> >
> >that's what an external ups is for, and it can last for much longer
> >than 5 minutes too.
> >
> >there is *no* need to put a battery inside something that normally runs
> >off of wall power or mounts on a wall. it's a complete waste of time
> >and money.
> >
> >now try to justify a wall mounted 24" tablet. are you going to stand in
> >front of it all day?
> >
> >it's a dumb idea.
>
> I wouldn't mind getting my two 24" screens off my desk and onto the
> wall, along with their four not very flexible cables.

you're ignoring the part where he said tablet. are you going to stand
in front of them to touch it?

putting an external display on the wall while the keyboard/trackpad
remains on a desk (or lap) is something entirely different. that's
*not* a tablet.

as you asked,

[Eric Stevens]

Some drivers for external hardware are not just passive but
configurable. Nor is an application for an Apple necessarily identical
to that of nominally the same application for Windows.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Alfred Molon]

In article <67eaab5an66m1clnh...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

says...

> Don't you read or have just got locked in argumentative mode?
>
> "Internal battery not needed or perhaps small for for 5 minutes of
> autonomy, in case the power gets cut off for some reason."

Since it's a 24" thing, it's not something you would bring on a train or
plain like a notebook. It would be something which is used in an office
or a home.

It should be powerful (fast quad core i7 processor, lots of RAM etc.),
and because it has a 24" screen, power consumption at full processor
load could be in the 60-90 Watt range (just guessing).

You could put in a battery, but this would increase the weight. The
thing would have some battery life, but if you were to insist on 12
hours of power, the battery would probably be heavy. So keep the battery
small & light, and rely for the power supply primarily on an A/C
adapter.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

[Alfred Molon]

In article <ti7aabpn1cp31b6gm...@4ax.com>, n...@this.time
says...
> I never thought I end up with a Mac or an all-in-one, but here I am,
> sitting in front of a 5K iMac.

Are you using it with Mac or Windows software?

[Alfred Molon]

In article <slrnnaacgt....@amelia.local>, Lewis says...

> Apple makes the best Windows laptops.

Why don't they deliver them with Windows on them?

[android]

In article <1vgaab1age7gb9c1p...@4ax.com>,

Bootcamp supplies drivers for Windows... OSX drivers would not work.
--
teleportation kills

[Bill W]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:16:07 -0500, PeterN <pete...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>On 1/24/2016 8:17 AM, Alfred Molon wrote:
>> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
>> says...
>>>

>>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>>

>> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
>>
>

>Yep! I use an HP Elite, which i have upgraded a few times. Added some
>memory, cost about $70. A few years ago the HD crashed, cost to replace,
>including labor under $200, including adding a second internal HD. I
>recently added a new graphics card to support my new monitor. Cost under
>$100. I have had the machine for a bit over six years. While there is
>nothing wrong with Macs, I think the ability to easily upgrade makes it
>a better machine for y purposes.
>BTW my processor is an eight core i7.

Are you sure? They weren't even introduced until late 2014, so if you
never replaced the mobo & processor, yours should be only 4 cores. Or
do you have a dual processor machine?

[nospam]

In article <1vgaab1age7gb9c1p...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

the apps *are* windows apps because the mac is running windows, with
the necessary windows drivers.

[android]

In article <MPG.310f6431...@news.supernews.com>,

Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <slrnnaacgt....@amelia.local>, Lewis says...
> > Apple makes the best Windows laptops.
>
> Why don't they deliver them with Windows on them?

You can buy W10 from MS if you really want to put Windows on a Mac and
load it through Bootcamp. Most folks that use Macs pay premium for
access to OSX and a minority want's Windows to. Believe it or not but MS
would charge Apple for shipping Macs with W10 installed...
--
teleportation kills

[PeterN]

Quite a few engineers use a touch screen, mounted between 30 degrees and
horizontal. Many have used stomach high drafting tables before they
retired. A wall mount would provide just such flexibility. A wall mount
would take up a lot less space than a drafting table. At my age it is a
lot easier to get up an down from a stool, than a chair. But according
to nosense, I am wrong.

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <n83h9...@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
> Quite a few engineers use a touch screen, mounted between 30 degrees and
> horizontal. Many have used stomach high drafting tables before they
> retired. A wall mount would provide just such flexibility. A wall mount
> would take up a lot less space than a drafting table. At my age it is a
> lot easier to get up an down from a stool, than a chair. But according
> to nosense, I am wrong.

more twisting.

[Lewis]

In message <MPG.310f6431...@news.supernews.com>

Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnnaacgt....@amelia.local>, Lewis says...
>> Apple makes the best Windows laptops.

> Why don't they deliver them with Windows on them?

Because Apple has zero motivation to ship Windows.

--
If puns are outlawed, only outlaws will have puns.

[JF Mezei]

On 2016-01-24 15:32, Jolly Roger wrote:

> No, it doesn't make any such assumption. And there are no signs that
> Apple will drop the Mac mini or Mac Pro. You are spreading FUD as usual.

And there were no signs Apple would exit the server business. I wouldn't
have gone through the trouble of buying an Xserve if there had been.
(required direct funds tranfer to an Apple bank account, long delivery
wait times due to high demand).


Sorry, but you or your ilk cannot predict what Apple will do tomorrow.
(and if you did, you wouldn't be able to talk about it).

You may be smitten with Apple, but Apple is a corporation and they do
not have nay obligatiosn to continue one product line or the other. It
can be cut any day they wish. And they can launch new products (such as
the 5s replacement) whenever they want.

[JF Mezei]

On 2016-01-24 17:15, Lewis wrote:

> Because Apple has zero motivation to ship Windows.

Not sure what the antitrust status is, but would Apple be able to sell
some computers with Windows at price X and some with OS-X at price Y ?

Apple would have to pay royalties to Microsoft, and if it must do so
even for machine shipped with OS-X, it would increae price of units (or
decrease profits).

By getting the customer to deal with the purchase of a valid Windows
license, Apple is free to do as it wishes for its computers.

[Mayayana]

| > Apple makes the best Windows laptops.
|
| Why don't they deliver them with Windows on them?

His statement is heavily biased. If you
could buy Windows on a Dell for, say, $800
or the same thing, on basically the same
hardware, for twice the price, would you
opt for paying an extra $800 to get a little
white Apple logo on your laptop?

Apple's strength is that they control the
whole device, as well as the OS, and can
therefore offer great stability, albeit at the
cost of options. Apple sells boutique devices
to a high-price market. To sell Windows
they'd have to compete with all the other
struggling companies getting thin profit margins
-- HP, Dell, Acer, etc.

They did actually sell OEM Macs at one time.
I have a brother who used to have one. If I
remember correctly, that's one of the things Jobs
shut down when he returned to run the company.
He wasn't a tech person. He was a marketing
person. He knew he'd be better off marketing an
image than competing in the market. And he pulled
it off in spades. Today, Microsoft has little chintzy
stores in the mall while Apple has glass cathedrals
dedicated to handing one's money over to Lord
Jobs. And damned if people don't line up outside
just to get a chance to empty their wallets! ...I
guess we should be grateful that Steve Jobs didn't
decide to take the career route of Jim Jones.

[PeterN]

Yes. I too was surprised. The printed specs for the machine, HP e9270f,
show the processor is an i7 quad 4. Yet when I right clicked on the
processor in device manager, I saw eight cores. I could have misread it.
<https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/Untitled-1.jpg>


--
PeterN

[PeterN]

You will never admit to saying something stupid, which you obviously did.

--
PeterN

[Bill W]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:35:07 -0500, PeterN <pete...@verizon.net>

That got me curious, so I had to Google it:
<http://superuser.com/questions/96001/why-does-my-intel-i7-920-display-8-cores-instead-of-4-cores>

The short answer is that your CPU has 4 cores, but 8 threads, and
device mgr lists all the threads. I never noticed that.

[nospam]

In article <n83jb7$j3n$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | > Apple makes the best Windows laptops.
> |
> | Why don't they deliver them with Windows on them?
>
> His statement is heavily biased.

it's not his statement.

he's referring to pc magazine, who stated that the macbook pro was the
best windows laptop.

pc magazine does indeed have a bias, but it's the *opposite* bias as to
what you're trying to portray.

now why do you think a magazine that caters to the windows crowd chose
a macbook as the best windows laptop?

> If you
> could buy Windows on a Dell for, say, $800
> or the same thing, on basically the same
> hardware, for twice the price, would you
> opt for paying an extra $800 to get a little
> white Apple logo on your laptop?

apple products are competitive for similar specs.

there is *no* premium for an apple logo (which isn't always white
either).

match the specs and the price will be similar. configure it differently
and the lesser spec system will cost less and the better spec system
will cost more. no surprise there.

now go price out a microsoft surfacebook if you want to see what
premium pricing means.

> Apple's strength is that they control the
> whole device, as well as the OS, and can
> therefore offer great stability,

that is a huge, huge advantage and something other companies are
realizing, including microsoft, samsung and others.

why would someone want a computer that's not stable and keeps crashing
or is difficult to configure and maintain?

> albeit at the
> cost of options.

wrong on that too.

> Apple sells boutique devices
> to a high-price market. To sell Windows
> they'd have to compete with all the other
> struggling companies getting thin profit margins
> -- HP, Dell, Acer, etc.

you mean like microsoft does with their surfacebook?

> They did actually sell OEM Macs at one time.
> I have a brother who used to have one. If I
> remember correctly, that's one of the things Jobs
> shut down when he returned to run the company.
> He wasn't a tech person. He was a marketing
> person. He knew he'd be better off marketing an
> image than competing in the market. And he pulled
> it off in spades.

the mac clones were shut down because they were a disaster.

> Today, Microsoft has little chintzy
> stores in the mall while Apple has glass cathedrals
> dedicated to handing one's money over to Lord
> Jobs. And damned if people don't line up outside
> just to get a chance to empty their wallets!

people also line up for windows, along with all sorts of other stuff.
ever been to the mall on black friday, before stores open?

<https://twitter.com/History_Pics/status/638347514861735936>

> ...I guess we should be grateful that Steve Jobs didn't
> decide to take the career route of Jim Jones.

idiot.

[nospam]

In article <n83js...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> Quite a few engineers use a touch screen, mounted between 30 degrees and
> >> horizontal. Many have used stomach high drafting tables before they
> >> retired. A wall mount would provide just such flexibility. A wall mount
> >> would take up a lot less space than a drafting table. At my age it is a
> >> lot easier to get up an down from a stool, than a chair. But according
> >> to nosense, I am wrong.
> >
> > more twisting.
>
> You will never admit to saying something stupid, which you obviously did.

it ain't me who said something stupid.

this isn't about a drafting table.

it's for normal windows use.

[nospam]

In article <n83ji...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> Yep! I use an HP Elite, which i have upgraded a few times. Added some
> >> memory, cost about $70. A few years ago the HD crashed, cost to replace,
> >> including labor under $200, including adding a second internal HD. I
> >> recently added a new graphics card to support my new monitor. Cost under
> >> $100. I have had the machine for a bit over six years. While there is
> >> nothing wrong with Macs, I think the ability to easily upgrade makes it
> >> a better machine for y purposes.
> >> BTW my processor is an eight core i7.
> >
> > Are you sure? They weren't even introduced until late 2014, so if you
> > never replaced the mobo & processor, yours should be only 4 cores. Or
> > do you have a dual processor machine?
> >
>
> Yes. I too was surprised. The printed specs for the machine, HP e9270f,
> show the processor is an i7 quad 4. Yet when I right clicked on the
> processor in device manager, I saw eight cores. I could have misread it.
> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/Untitled-1.jpg>

you definitely misread it.

it's a quad ccore i7 with hyper-threading.

[nospam]

In article <240120162304326901%timst...@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater

<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> >I guess we should be grateful that Steve Jobs didn't
> >decide to take the career route of Jim Jones.
>

> Who's he?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones>
James Warren "Jim" Jones (May 13, 1931 ­ November 18, 1978) was an
American cult leader. Jones was the founder and leader of the Peoples
Temple, best known for the mass murder-suicide in November 1978 of
918 of its members in Jonestown, Guyana,[1] the murder of Congressman
Leo Ryan, and the ordering of four additional Temple member deaths in
Georgetown, the Guyanese capital. Nearly three-hundred children were
murdered at Jonestown, almost all of them by cyanide poisoning.[2]
Jones died from a gunshot wound to the head; it is suspected his
death was a suicide.

[Bill W]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:57:17 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>why would someone want a computer that's not stable and keeps crashing
>or is difficult to configure and maintain?

Now that I have this PC up and running again, I just want to say, uh,
well, nothing...

[Neill Massello]

Alfred Molon <alfred...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> But I'm surprised that you suggest a Mac, when almost everybody is using
> Windows machines.

Your thread was hijacked to the comp.sys.mac.system newsgroup beginning
with android's message of 24 Jan 2016 10:55:58 +0100
<here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>.

That's why you're getting all the unwanted Mac responses. I suggest that
you just ignore them and remove comp.sys.mac.system from the Newsgroups
header for any future posts you make in this thread.

[Alan Browne]

Yep - that includes trimming the group from such replies ...

--
"But I am somehow extraordinarily lucky, for a guy with shitty luck."
..Harrison Ford, Rolling Stone - 2015-12-02

[PeterN]

I didn't realize that, nor did it really matter all that much, so long
as the machine works. Yes I know a new machine would be faster, but this
one works for me.

--
PeterN

[Alan Browne]

You have 4 hyper threaded cores. At any given instant only 4 cores are
processing. Each core has 2 fulls sets of registers and to the OS the
processor appears to have 8 cores - but each core can only run one set
of registers at a time.

When a core on register set "A" has exhausted inputs (memory fetches),
it switches to register set "B". When it's exhausted its inputs, back
to set "A".

This scheme optimizes the core utilization but of course a single core
can't do 2 cores worth of work. But it can take advantage of slack time
so you get a performance boost.

The "boost" is about 30% over non-HT cores.

So fully loaded (say, doing a handbrake job) you would be getting about
5.2 cores worth of CPU from your 4 core machine.

[Alan Baker]

Couple of questions:

When did you buy your Xserve? What model was it?

When did Apple exit the market?

When did they stop making parts for your Xserve available?

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-01-24 15:21, Lewis wrote:
> In message <-Nmdneu6Z95ndTnL...@giganews.com>
> Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-01-24 09:46, David Taylor wrote:

>>> On 24/01/2016 13:17, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>>> In article <here-6E285B.1...@news.individual.net>, android
>>>> says...
>>>>>
>>>>> The consensus is that if you really want an all in one then the iMac is
>>>>> the way to go... The real way to go is, however to buy a Mini Mac and
>>>>> hook up a screen of your choice!
>>>>
>>>> Fine, but is there anything with Windows?
>>>

>>> Yes, for example Dell offer 23-inch and 24-inch units. Their latest:
>>>
>>> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-24-7459-aio/pd?ref=PD_Family
>>>
>>> Doubtless other manufacturers offer something similar. "All-in-one"
>>> appears to be Dell's key phrase for these PCs.
>>>
>>> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/desktops
>>>
>>> The units have just a full HD display, though.
>
>> Indeed ... so coarse Dell seem embarrassed to list the pixel dimensions
>> on that impressive-to-the-innocent page of specs.
>
>> It's likely 1080 which is pretty coarse by today's standards.
>
>> My ancient (2012) iMac (27") is 2560 x 1440 and an up to date iMac
>> retina is 4096 x 2304 pixels.
>
> No. It is 5120x2880 (exactly double the non-retina in each direction).

Indeed, I was on the the 21.5 Retina spec w/o realizing it. Should have
spotted the 4096 as not being "5k".