About my Alaskan Malamute - I'm very angry!
Foteini Drakou
To all the people who answered my question via e-mail.I asked in what age
my female Alaskan Malamute could have babies.Those people told me that my
dog shouldn't mate and have kids because she's not good for breeding, or
something like that!!
Well, Scarlet (my dog) has had all her vacinations and is extremely
healthy. She IS an Alaskan Malamute (not mixed, not Siberian and Malamute)
and very very beautiful.I've seen her parents and they're healthy and very
great too.Scarlet does not have any diseases like hip displasia or sth like
that.We got her from a pet shop and the owner of the shop is not such a
specialist when it comes to telling which one is a Mal and which one is a
Husky.And it's not easy at all to tell one from another when they're
puppies, if you happen to know!
I'm planning to mate Scarlet with a good, healthy male dog when she
becomes two and a half years old.I think it's the right age now, because
I've asked more people about it.I'm not going to "spoil the breed" or
anything as silly as that.The male is going to be an Alaskan Malamute too,
and there won't be any problems.
Also, sth else.A person sent me an e-mail which said I should be ready
that if my dog has children she may die!! I consider this the most
ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.Scarlet is going to be
under constant medical supervision when she's going to have babies.Her food
will be as good and nutritious as it is today and her vet is going to look
after her very very often.The chances of her or the puppies dying,
according to the vet's words, are one in a billion.So, thanks for the silly
advice...
(I'm referring only to the two people who sent me an e-mail till now).
--
Anyway the wind blows
Queen are forever
Nancy E. Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
If you purchased your puppy from a pet store you bought a puppy mill or
back yard bred dog and it sounds like you desire to become another back
yard breeder caring nothing for your dogs beyond breeding for a profit. NO
reputable breeder allows anyone else to sell their pups as they want to
make sure the pups have only the best homes.
As you stated you were not sure what breed you purchased it is highly
unlikely the papers you received on the dog (if you got any) were accurate.
If the pet store owner had no idea of the breed or which puppy was which
how can you be sure you even met your dog's actual parents?
I agree with the others that you need to do some serious investigation into
what a breeder is and should be before you consider becoming one. The dog
you purchased should definitely not be bred as you have no provable idea of
the pedigree or parentage of the dog you own. If you understood anything
about responsible breeding practices you would not be promoting your dog as
a brood bitch. We are not saying your dog is terrible we are saying that
she should not be bred based on your own statements on acquisition,
misidentification of breed and your understanding of what breeding and
raising pups is all about.
As for the likelihood of your dog dying - vets rarely have a clue about
breeding they are trained in curing illness and doing surgery not in the
raising of dogs nor in genetics. Dogs do die from pregnancy and
complications also from problems like eclampsia. Unspayed females also live
a shorter life due to higher risk of cancer, uterine infections, and even
from escaping from the owner to go off and get bred only to get killed by a
car.
As a breeder I can tell you I have nearly lost 2 dogs one to uterine
infection and one to eclampsia and had one dog die during a c-section. If I
had not known exactly what I was seeing during the 2 close calls and rushed
to a vet those dogs would have died. You are taking a risk when you breed a
bitch, no doubts about it.
Malamutes and huskies and crosses of these breeds are frequently found in
animal shelters. While they are very cute as pups many of the homes that
purchase one are not suited to the breed and dump them out when the dog
gets to adolescence. There are lots and lots of these dogs available and
being killed in shelters daily as there are not enough good homes for them.
That is another major reason why concerned dog lovers would advise you not
to breed.
Your family and friends say they are interested in a dog just like yours.
The ONLY way to get such a creature is to buy another from the same parents
as your dog's offspring will only be 1/2 like her and the other 1/2 like
the sire.
Based on your statements it sounds like you do not understand that no
reputable breeder would permit their stud to breed your bitch - that leaves
you only the back yard breeders and other puppy mill dogs to choose from.
You claim your dog is healthy and has no problems but you need several
tests done by a vet to prove that. How will you check out the stud? BYB and
mills rarely health test - they just make puppies with no care or feelings
for the purchaser's who get a heartbreakingly unhealthy dog for their
money. How will you feel if your friends and relatives get a pup from you
that turns out to be unhealthy from inherited disorders?
There is an awful lot you should think about before even considering
breeding. When you do get to the point of breeding you should be doing it
only with a registered, health tested dog that meets the breed standard for
the breed (not just being beautiful in your eyes as much as you love her
that does not count) from outstanding lineage that can contribute something
positive to the breed as a whole as opposed to just creating pups.
Nancy
posted and emailed
Foteini Drakou <pol...@prometheus.hol.gr> wrote in article
<01bc353f$bb35ac80$1dd0...@polina.hol.gr>...
Joanne Anderson
Before responding, may I state that I have been in the dog industry for
over 20 years. I have bred, raised, trained, instructed, professionally
showed, groomed and loved many different breeds of dogs.
(I APOLOGIZE FOR THE LENGTH OF THIS POST, BUT AFTER READING THIS GROUP'S
MESSAGES FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS NOW, I JUST COULDN'T HELP RESPONDING
FULLY.)
I'm sorry that you were offended by your e-mail responses. I must admit I
did not read them nor did I see your initial post, but based on your
response with this post, you are still left uninformed.
Your responders may have had the right intentions but just not the right
approach. Without trying to offend you again but with all honesty and
according to the knowledge that I have acquired over the years may I make
a few comments.
Firstly, if you plan on breeding your dog, you have a grave responsibility
to the puppies created and to the people whose homes they are placed into.
Secondly, realize your objective for breeding in the first place, and yes
there are consequences that could happen to your female including death if
something goes wrong.
You say you purchased your Mal from a pet shop. Typically pet shops are
not known for selling the highest quality of ANY breed of dog. Now, I'm
not trying to degrade pet shops, but historically speaking and from
personal viewing of animals on display, many are very poor representatives
of their breeds. You say your female doesn't have hip dysplasia, but what
about her mother, father, grandparents, or siblings. If you don't know the
answer to that, FIND OUT before even considering breeding, it is a
possible that she could still produce puppies that do have it.
BEFORE you get angry again, I'm not saying that this is the case of your
dog. You could be one of the luckier people getting a good animal. It's
just a fact that breeders of quality animals DO NOT sell their dogs to pet
shops, let alone their best and breeding quality animals. *softly* You
must remember that even IF you're dog is not worthy of reproducing, it
does not make them any less of a wonderful companion or any less beautiful
to you.
This subject could go on and on so let me list a few pros and cons and
leave it at that. You are welcome to e-mail me directly and I would gladly
give you more information and help.
Pros:
1) It is fun to watch puppies being born and growing up.
2) You can learn about how the mother dog cares for her puppies.
3) You can have fun playing with the puppies.
4) You produce puppies sound in mind, body and soul.
5) Your puppies are sold to help others, i.e.police, search & rescue,
blind, deaf,etc.
Also if you're breeding for show:
6) You breed champions or even an international Best in Show animal.
7) You produce another producer of champions.
I'm sure there are more.
Now for the Cons:(which I know are too many to list all)
1) Puppies take an extreme amount of time, money and effort to raise.
2) You must be devoted to protect the innocent buyers from defects known
to your breed and be readily capable and able to give refunds or
replacements.
3) You could lose your female from complications at birth.
4) Your puppies could die from viruses you thought you had protected them
from.
5) The puppies could end up with hereditary defects that cause blindness;
crippling;
6) Your neighbors could complain about the noise, smell, etc.
7) Dissatisfied buyers could try to sue you for misrepresentation
regarding the sale.
8) The puppies you sold end up in the pound, because the owners decided
they didn't want it.(This happened to me once, I was devastated and I was
very selective of my buyers. One just never knows.)
Lastly, keep in mind that a large litter of Mals creates a lot of
"scooping up" after!
Again I apologize for the length of this post.
Sincerely,
Joanne Anderson - e-mail: mailto:j...@atik9setc.com
ATI's K9's Etc.
> "Foteini Drakou" <pol...@prometheus.hol.gr> wrote in article
<01bc353f$bb35ac80$1dd0...@polina.hol.gr>...
> To all the people who answered my question via e-mail.I asked in what
age
> my female Alaskan Malamute could have babies.Those people told me that
my
> dog shouldn't mate and have kids because she's not good for breeding, or
> something like that!! ...
Susan Mudgett aka little gator
Foteini Drakou (pol...@prometheus.hol.gr) wrote:
: great too.Scarlet does not have any diseases like hip displasia or sth like
: that.
Unless she's been xrayed you can't possibly know whether she has hip
dysplasia. The symptoms often don't show until the dog is several
years old.
We got her from a pet shop and the owner of the shop is not such a
: specialist when it comes to telling which one is a Mal and which one is a
: Husky.And it's not easy at all to tell one from another when they're
: puppies, if you happen to know!
Anyone who can't tell the two breeds apart should not be
breeding. I've seen puppies of both breeds and someone who knows them
should be able to tell.
So what makes you so sure she's a Malemute?
Does this dog have papers? What breed do they say she is? What kennel
club are they from? If she has them they could be faked or switched by
mistake, as both are easily done by pet shops. If she has no papers
there's no way to be sure she's a Malamute.
Twzl & Sligo, Happy Together
> Well, Scarlet (my dog) has had all her vacinations and is extremely
>healthy. She IS an Alaskan Malamute (not mixed, not Siberian and Malamute)
OK, how do you know she is healthy? I know, your vet told you. But that's
like me going to a foot doctor and him telling me that my kidneys and
lungs are a-ok. As well meaning as your vet is, he doesn't know.
>and very very beautiful.I've seen her parents and they're healthy and very
>great too.Scarlet does not have any diseases like hip displasia or sth like
>that.We got her from a pet shop and the owner of the shop is not such a
Well, if you got her from a pet store, I would be curious as to how you
know she doesn't have hip problems. I would bet my paycheck that her
parents are not OFA'd and that Scarlet isn't either.
>specialist when it comes to telling which one is a Mal and which one is a
>Husky.And it's not easy at all to tell one from another when they're
>puppies, if you happen to know!
Telling a Mal from a Husky puppy is VERY VERY VERY easy. Geeze, if you
can't tell them apart, you should NOT be breeding Mals. Or Sibes. Put a
Sibe next to a Mal at any age. Even if the Sibe has brown eyes (and I do
hope your Mal doesn't), the Mal will be much bigger. CLue!!
>anything as silly as that.The male is going to be an Alaskan Malamute too,
>and there won't be any problems.
Well, there are Mal people lurking here who can list the problems far
better than I can. But to start, I would wonder about those hips. There is
nothing worse than a big dog with crappy hips. And you know, if you sell
those puppies and they come up lame...you could have some HUGE law suits
on your hands. I hope you have deep pockets. If someone takes you to court
to recover the cost of a total hip replacement you'll need them.
> Also, sth else.A person sent me an e-mail which said I should be ready
>that if my dog has children she may die!! I consider this the most
>ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.Scarlet is going to be
You know, I almost have to suspect you are an excellent troll. But I'll
assume you really are this ignorant. Dogs die in whelp. Puppies die when
they are being born. It's pretty common. You have a litter of 8 or 9, and
one is born dead and another dies an hour later, and one more may die
withint 48 hours. deal with it. And if your bitch has a hard time in labor
and you are off at work (or more likely high school), you could come home
to a dead bitch.
>after her very very often.The chances of her or the puppies dying,
>according to the vet's words, are one in a billion.So, thanks for the silly
This vet reminds me of the doctor on the Simpsons...not Dr Hibert, but
that quack? I can't remember his name, but I could see him telling you
that dead puppies aren't a problem.
Ann, Twzl & Sligo
--
********************************************
Anyone who is such a scaredy cccatt that they MAIl their flames to me
rather than posting them, will see them posted as a followup to the thread.
Twzl & Sligo, Happy Together
>Sibe next to a Mal at any age. Even if the Sibe has brown eyes (and I do
>hope your Mal doesn't), the Mal will be much bigger. CLue!!
Following up myself, I meant that I would hope the Mal doesn't have blue
eyes. Obviously a Mal SHOULD have brown eyes, NEVER blue ones. A Sibe can
have either or one of each.
Darlene E. Hernandez
Foteini Drakou wrote:
>
> To all the people who answered my question via e-mail.I asked in what age
> my female Alaskan Malamute could have babies.Those people told me that my
> dog shouldn't mate and have kids because she's not good for breeding, or
> something like that!!
> healthy. She IS an Alaskan Malamute (not mixed, not Siberian and Malamute)
> great too.Scarlet does not have any diseases like hip displasia or sth like
> that.We got her from a pet shop and the owner of the shop is not such a
> Husky.And it's not easy at all to tell one from another when they're
> puppies, if you happen to know!
> becomes two and a half years old.I think it's the right age now, because
> I've asked more people about it.I'm not going to "spoil the breed" or
> and there won't be any problems.
> that if my dog has children she may die!! I consider this the most
> ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.Scarlet is going to be
> will be as good and nutritious as it is today and her vet is going to look
> according to the vet's words, are one in a billion.So, thanks for the silly
>
> (I'm referring only to the two people who sent me an e-mail till now).
> --
> Anyway the wind blows
> Queen are forever
Foteini,
In the United States there are several groups of people who breed dogs.
One group (for
lack of a better term) I will call "Show/Hobby Breeders". These
breeders perform a
large amount of genetic/structure testing on their dogs before they are
bred. These dogs
are usually shown in conformation (Greece holds FCI sanctioned
conformation shows), obedience,
or other performance events (sledding or weight pulling are common for
Alaskan Malamutes).
These dogs are registered with (in the US) the AKC and have shown some
success in the
above competitions. The "show" breeders will belong to a local or
national club for their
breed. Their puppies are usually all sold before the litter is born.
The puppies have genetic
testing done prior to being sold. Puppies are sold with contracts and
guarantees as to
their future health. The breeders of these dogs feel a responsibility
for the puppies they
produce and require the owners to return the dogs to them if the owner
cannot keep them
for any reason. They NEVER sell their puppies to a pet shop.
Another group of people I will refer to as "Backyard Breeders". These
breeders have a dog
that is a wonderful pet that they may want to breed for several
reasons. The most common
one is: My dog is so wonderful and everyone wants a puppy just like
her. Other reasons
might be because they want to make a little extra money, breeding her
will settle her down, etc.
These people do not perform any kind of genetic/structure testing on
their dogs. The
reason they don't do this testing is because the dog has had their
vacinations and the vet
says she is healthy. Genetic testing either has to be done by a
veterinary specialist (for
example an eye specialist for eye diseases) or the blood samples have to
be sent to a
specialized laboratory (for example, most testing for thyroid problems
get sent to University
of Michigan in the United States). Structure testing for hip, elbow and
shoulder problems
require an x-ray (radiograph) taken with the dog in a certain position.
These xrays are
then sent to an official examining body (in the United States it could
be OFA, PennHip or GDC).
Backyard breeders may sell their puppies through a newspaper
advertisement or to a pet store.
Health guarantees and contracts are usually not given.
The last group of people are called "Puppy Mills". Puppy Mills view
dogs as livestock and
breed their dogs only to produce income. No health/structure testing is
done. Puppies
are sold to pet shops all over the world.
I do not know how informed the vets are in Greece in regards to
genetic/health tests that
should be done on Malamutes. I lived in Spain for three years and was
appalled by the lack
of knowledge that the town veteranian had. He had no xray equipment in
his hospital. The
closest veteranian who had xray equipment was 30 miles away.
There is a possiblity that puppies may die during or shortly after
whelping. The statistics
are a lot less than the 1 in a billion that your vet is claiming. As an
example, I have bred
6 litters since 1971. Out of the 52 puppies that were produced, 2
died. That's 1 in 26.
The mother and puppies all had every advantage - excellent food,
veterinary care, 24 hour care,
health/genetic screening, etc. but I still lost two puppies.
Hopefully this will clarify some of the responses that you gotten from
your original post.
Darlene Hernandez
darlene_e...@ccm.fm.intel.com
Mojo's Mom
have the slightest knowledgew of how to breed.
Well, since nothing got through to you, please consider one thing.
You can't say a dog doesn't have hd unless you have her xrayed at age
2, and send the xrays into an OFA certifican office to have them
evalulated. Just because you dont *see* any problems yet does NOT mean
they aren't there.
Terri
Elaine Gallegos
So why do you want to breed puppies? You're not going to earn any money
doing it. You'll spend more on the vet and on extra food than you'll
earn.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elaine Gallegos
sat...@primenet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Melissa Bruce
In article 0b9472ce@default, "Joanne Anderson" <j...@atik9setc.com> writes:
> Before responding, may I state that I have been in the dog industry for
> over 20 years. I have bred, raised, trained, instructed, professionally
> showed, groomed and loved many different breeds of dogs.
[much of an excellent reply snipped]
> You say your female doesn't have hip dysplasia, but what
> about her mother, father, grandparents, or siblings.
You forgot to mention that just because her Mal hasn't started
showing signs of hip dysplasia, that doesn't mean she doesn't
have it. It's not uncommon for dysplastic dogs to not show
symptoms for several years.
Melissa (Jax's Mom - who's been there more than once)
Cris Waller
One thing I did notice-this poster, at least according to his e-mail
address, is in Greece. Any of our international compatriots have any
idea where he might get some real info on dog breeding, hip dysplasia
testing, etc., in Greece?
Cris Waller
Cr...@ix.netcom.com
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person"
TRlSTIN
SEE! THIS is the problem! THESE are the people who are breeding, THESE are
the people who can't be reached. People who believe this kind of stuff are
THE problem with the ruining of breeds. And they don't have a
clue........It's frustrating because you can't convince these people of
anything, they're of a different mindset. These are the kind of people who
think "AKC registered" actually means something. I'm sorry to the person
who wrote the above post. The reason I'm apologizing is because you're
going to feel insulted and you don't even know why.......
DC
In article <19970321044...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, trl...@aol.com
(TRlSTIN) wrote:
> SEE! THIS is the problem! THESE are the people who are breeding, THESE are
> the people who can't be reached. People who believe this kind of stuff are
> THE problem with the ruining of breeds. And they don't have a
> clue........It's frustrating because you can't convince these people of
> anything, they're of a different mindset. These are the kind of people who
> think "AKC registered" actually means something. I'm sorry to the person
> who wrote the above post. The reason I'm apologizing is because you're
> going to feel insulted and you don't even know why.......
I doubt an individual posting from Greece thinks that _American_ Kennel
Club registered means anything. In reply to a previous poster- pretty safe
bet that a Greek dog isnt OFA'd.
My roomate through college and part of Grad school was from Greece. It is
a totally different culture than North American and even Europe.
I personally have no clue whatsoever about the abundance of puppy mills in
Greece, nor do I know the protocol regarding reputable breeders selling
their dogs through petstores in Greece. I don't even know what the AKC
equivalent is in Greece. I don't know what papers would be provided with a
dog in Greece, nor who would issue them. I also dont know how a dog gets
titled in Greece, or what titles are available.
I don't know what classes a vet has to take in Greece to get his degree,
nor how far his scope of knowledge is in breeding and genetics.
Nor do I know how many Malamutes are in Greece, and it follows that I don't
know how many dogs are in rescue in Greece. I do know from my roommate
that in general Greek nationals are not so quick to toss animals/people
away when they are no longer amusing. An ancient culture backing you has
some distinct advantages.
Perhaps some of you folks so insistant on flaming this guy could enlighten
me about Greek culture regarding dogs.
Amazing that none of the omniscient beings here told the poster to go talk
to the people at <insert name of Greek kennel club and/or Greek Malamute
club here>.
The guy may or may not be in the wrong here, but I'd like to know a hell of
alot more about what goes on in his country before I pass judgement.
_____________________________________________________________________
DC Potts
ath...@avalon.net
Project PicoReef http://www.avalon.net/~athame/pico.html
Holly
Foteini Drakou wrote:
> Also, sth else.A person sent me an e-mail which said I should be ready
> that if my dog has children she may die!! I consider this the most
> ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.Scarlet is going to be
> under constant medical supervision when she's going to have babies.Her food
> will be as good and nutritious as it is today and her vet is going to look
> after her very very often.The chances of her or the puppies dying,
> according to the vet's words, are one in a billion.So, thanks for the silly
> advice...
Well, please tell this to my friend who is an experienced breeder who
lost one of her dogs in whelp (and all the puppies) in early December, in
spite of excellent medical care both before and during her pregnancy, in
spite of this bitch having previously whelped a litter without any
problems what so ever, who was fed (as all her bitches in whelp are) a
special formula designed for gestating bitches. Seffe was dead within
minutes, and though they tried, they couldn't save the puppies either.
So much for "silly" advice. The only thing "silly" is that you are too
stupid to realize that it *can* and *does* happen even to people who have
done absolutely everything right.
Btw... canines don't have children. They have puppies.
You have a *great* deal to learn, but apparently think you already know more
than others who have been doing this a lot longer than you have. For
your dog's sake, I hope you don't learn the hard way.
Cris Waller
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:35:24 -0600, address...@to.avoid.spam (DC)
wrote:
>Amazing that none of the omniscient beings here told the poster to go talk
>to the people at <insert name of Greek kennel club and/or Greek Malamute
>club here>.
Actually, I did point out that he was from Greece, not the US, and
asked if anyone here could give him the pertinent info for Greece.
Chris Kosmakos
DC (address...@to.avoid.spam) wrote:
:
: The guy may or may not be in the wrong here, but I'd like to know a hell of
: alot more about what goes on in his country before I pass judgement.
Given my surname and travels in Greece, I'll pass judgement. He's wrong.
Lynn Kosmakos
--
chri...@netcom.com
Jason&Sherry Webster
Sorry for the length
> Also, sth else.A person sent me an e-mail which said I should be ready
> that if my dog has children she may die!! I consider this the most
> ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.Scarlet is going to be
> under constant medical supervision when she's going to have babies.Her food
> will be as good and nutritious as it is today and her vet is going to look
> after her very very often.The chances of her or the puppies dying,
> according to the vet's words, are one in a billion.So, thanks for the silly
> advice...
For your information the chances of having pups born dead is very real.
There are many other things that could go wrong as well. One of our
bitches whelped a litter of pups at the co-owners house while she was at
work. Kira (the bitch) went into labour and gave birth to 3 pups in a
span of 9 hours. Because no one was there one of the pups got stuck and
had spinal injuries which resulted in death. The last litter of pups I
whelped with my mother. Out of 7 pups,2 were born dead, one almost died
because the bitch severed the umbilical cord at the stomach wall(after
applying iodine and stiptic powder, calling the vet at 4:30 am at home
and applying pressure to stop the bleeding the pup did survive) The
other pup in the litter that had a problem was born premature-she was
from the last breeding the others from the first. Any way she has a
severe over bite and weighed 2 ounces while the rest of the litter
weighed 8 ounces. She is now almost 2 years old but as a pup I had to
feed her by bottle and sometimes tube every two hours. Unless you have
whelped a litter of puppies you wouldn't understand some of the things
that can go wrong. I am by no means an expert but if you decide to
breed your bitch make sure you have an experienced breeder help you. Do
you know what to do when a pup is born and isn't breathing, do you know
how to cut the umbilical cord and clean all the pups if your bitch
won't(there are some bitches who don't know what to do so you have to)?
If you don't know how to do these things please don't breed your dog
until you do. This is from the heart of someone who has seen pups born
and die in a matter seconds.
Sherry
ger...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
In article <01bc353f$bb35ac80$1dd0...@polina.hol.gr>, "Foteini Drakou" <pol...@prometheus.hol.gr> writes:
<snip happens>
> anything as silly as that.The male is going to be an Alaskan Malamute too,
> and there won't be any problems.
I admit to having missed your original post. However, it is this line
that makes me say -- you are not realistically ready to breed. There
is seldom any certainty that there will be "no problems" and least of
all in dog breeding! The risks may be large or small -- the risk of
hip dysplasia from a dog and bitch with 5 generations of OFA Excellent
hips is small, for instance, BUT IT IS STILL THERE. If you care about
your bitch and about the puppies you are talking of producing, you
will admit that there could be problems and spend some time (how about
a year?) learning what problems there might be, and how to deal with
them.
> Also, sth else.A person sent me an e-mail which said I should be ready
> that if my dog has children she may die!! I consider this the most
> ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.Scarlet is going
> under constant medical supervision when she's going to have babies.Her food
> will be as good and nutritious as it is today and her vet is going to look
> after her very very often.The chances of her or the puppies dying,
> according to the vet's words, are one in a billion.So, thanks for the silly
Your vet needs a remedial course in statistics. The chances of a
bitch dying are much greater than one in a billion. If I remember
correctly, Malamutes are usually free-whelping, i.e. they don't
usually need help, but it can certainly happen. Maybe one of the vets
on the list can provide a number... one in a hundred? One in a
thousand? More importantly, is she really going to be under "constant
supervision" that is living at the vet's office for two months?? How
often will she be in to be checked. Are you ready to give up the
Polyanna "Nothing could happen to MY bitch!" approach, and spend a few
months finding out what can go wrong, attending whelpings if possible,
learn as much as you can even if it gives you nightmares which some of
it could -- so that if something DOES go wrong you will know what to
do, whether you can help or whether you need to drive her to the
emergency clinic. You'll need to know where the nearest 24-hour
clinic is or get your vet's promise that he will meet you at his
surgery if needed, any time of the day or night.
It's a lot like humans having children, actually. Most women are
quite able to deliver without all that hospital equipment -- but when
it does happen that something goes wrong, immediate skilled help is
needed or the mother and/or child can die. When a woman's labor goes
wrong, she is usually in hospital already or can be rushed to one.
When a bitch's labor goes wrong, too often there is no one there. If
you do breed, you must plan to take a week or more off work or school
-- monitoring the bitch as her due date approaches (supposedly you can
predict whelping day by taking her temperature every day), being with
her constantly when she is due, and spending a week with the new
puppies when they are most likely to need help.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth B. Naime * Email may be forwarded and/or posted
els...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu *
CUR 70 / FUR 212 * * Standard Disclaimers Apply*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
S. Shrager
As an owner of Alaskan Malamutes, and anxiously expecting my first
litter, I'm hoping I can shed some light on some of the things raised in
this thread.
First, is your female papered? Does she have papers from a registry,
specifically the AKC but also ANY registry, stating that she is an Alaskan
Malamute? Does she have papers from a registry stating that she is a
Husky (this is what you said she was purchased as)?
If not, your dog , no matter how much she looks like a Mal to you or to
your vet, can not be officially considered an Alaskan Malamute. Ditto for
any male you may breed to who does not have papers. IF your female is not
on an official registry, with full registration, her puppies also will not
be considered Alaskan Malamutes. Their value will be that of any
cross-breed or mix, or non-purebred dog, because you have no "proof" that
this dog is an Alaskan Malamute, from certain lineage which is documented.
This may not matter to you--you might choose a dog to breed your female to
regardless of the registration status of her or the puppies. However,
none of them will ever be approved breeding stock and because of the
absolute uncertainty of their parentage, you will never know what genetic
time bombs are held within those pups.
If your female is a registered Alaskan Malamute, or even if she is not,
the following are vital to have done prior to breeding. It is unlikely
you will find a quality stud to mate your female to without this
information (though you won't find a quality stud unless your female is
fully registered).
Hips x-rayed and possession of a blue slip certifying hips as normal (i.e.
fair, good, or excellent). You are not worried about your female's hips,
but this is a necessary step for all breeders, and will likely be a
requirement from the owners of the stud you choose.
CHD clearance. This is where your problem of not knowing your female's
parentage or history makes it absolutely impossible for you to breed. CHD
stands for Chondrodysplasia, a genetic condition which came close to
destroying this breed. Parents look totally normal, live normal lives,
but produce some offspring which become "dwarves". This is a recessive
gene, and only repeated test-breeding can clear your female of this
genetic trait. If she *is* registered, and both her parents have CHD
clearance, you will automatically receive a piece of paper clearing your
female. If not, you will need to find an affected dwarf male and
test-breed your female under supervision of the CHD committees. I think
this would be VERY difficult to do overseas. If pups are born with CHD,
then your female is a carrier and she must be spayed. If none of the pups
(and she needs to produce a significant number, at least 6 I believe) are
affected, your female will be given a clearance, but every puppy is likely
to be a carrier and all must be spayed or neutered. Again, this is
closely supervised by official committees.
Also you will need to have your females eyes cleared of cataracts and
obtain official paperwork from CERF. This is a relatively inexpensive
test, though you will have to find a veterinarian opthamologist.
Because of the requirements listed above, and because from what you have
said about your female, I doubt you have the ability to obtain the
information you will need to in order to breed her. I'd be very concerned
about taking any risks without this information.
Another thought, if you are unable to breed your female might be to talk
with Malamute breeders either in Europe or overseas in the USA, and obtain
another female as a companion for yours (though spay yours first, the two
are more likely to get along that way), who will already have all of the
above clearances and be a more likely breeding candidate. And you'll have
twice the Malamute love in your life.
n,
Sandi Shrager _/ | _
School of Social Work /' `'/
University of Washington <~ .'
san...@u.washington.edu .' |
_/ |
_/ `.`.
____/ ' \__ | |______
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@a__/___/ /__\ \ \ \___.a@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@/ (___.'\_______)\_|_| \@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@|\________ ~~~~~\@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
~~~\@@@@@@@@@@@@@@|| |\___________________________/|@/~~~~~~~~~~~\@@@
|~~~~\@@@@@@@/ | | | | | ||\____________|@@
Elizabeth
In article <19970321044...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
trl...@aol.com says...
>SEE! THIS is the problem! THESE are the people who are breeding, THESE
are
>the people who can't be reached. People who believe this kind of stuff
are
>THE problem with the ruining of breeds. And they don't have a
>clue........It's frustrating because you can't convince these people of
>anything, they're of a different mindset. These are the kind of people
who
>think "AKC registered" actually means something.
I agree. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. I am dealing with someone on the beagle
list with exactly this mindset right now. Has two beagles so -- HEY -
-why not breed 'em? Says he's going to "start a line of hunting beagles"
but admits they are nowhere near the standard. Who cares? he says --
that's a "show breeder" thing. ARGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGGH!!
Sometimes it just seems HOPELESS!
Elizabeth
etes...@law.vanderbilt.edu
Greta CD, NA, NAC, CGC, 2/3 AD, 1/2 NJC, 2/3 U-Ag I [Beagle]
Ellie CD, NA, NAC, CGC, 1/3 OAC, 1/2 NJC, 2/3 U-Ag I [Beagle]
Emma NAC, CGC, 1/2 NJC [All-American]
Seneca Becket of Canterbury CGC (and lots of ambition!) [Airedale]
Visit them at http://info.gdb.org/~laurie/kennel/kennel61.html
Liz Bauer
Has anyone noticed that the person to whom you're all responding
to appears to be living in Greece? Therefore, comments about AKC
registration, back yard breeders, etc. etc. are probably not making
any sense at all.
I don't know much of anything about Greek KC's or how things function
in the dog world there, but perhaps somebody can put Foteini in touch
with an ethical Greek breeder who can explain these things in terms
of her own area and culture?
Liz Bauer
har...@inxpress.net
http://www.inxpress.net/~harkon
Carroll Parkison
Mojo's Mom wrote:
>
> Foteini Drakou wrote:
> >
> > To all the people who answered my question via e-mail.I asked in what age
> > my female Alaskan Malamute could have babies.Those people told me that my
> > dog shouldn't mate and have kids because she's not good for breeding, or
> > something like that!!
> > Well, Scarlet (my dog) has had all her vacinations and is extremely
> > healthy. She IS an Alaskan Malamute (not mixed, not Siberian and Malamute)
snip
> > (I'm referring only to the two people who sent me an e-mail till now).
> > --
> > Anyway the wind blows
> > Queen are forever
> Great. More genetic timebombs in the breed bred by people who don't
> have the slightest knowledgew of how to breed.
> Well, since nothing got through to you, please consider one thing.
> You can't say a dog doesn't have hd unless you have her xrayed at age
> 2, and send the xrays into an OFA certifican office to have them
> evalulated. Just because you dont *see* any problems yet does NOT mean
> they aren't there.
> TerriI would just like to know how in the world you saw the parents of a pet
shop pupppy?
Carroll Parkison
car...@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~carrollp/index.shtml">
The Carrolls
Not replying to anyone in perticular, but I gotta say, we did our best. If
this person just won't listen to us, there's not much we can really do, is
there? Some people are just that stubborn. EVERYTHING she said in her
post informed me that she has less knowledge about breeding than I did when
I bought my first dog (which means she knows VERY little.) I at least had
the knowledge that her hips & eyes had to be CERTIFIED. This is an
extremely ignorant person, and there's nothing else we can do. She posted
to this board; she should listen to the results. Otherwise, she's just
plain cowardly and stupid. Just ignore her; nothing else those of us that
know what we're doing can do.
Emily
ROGER AND HERMINE STOVER
large numbers of unwanted dogs in shelters, and so forht. there is a
movement to discourage breedings by newcomers. Folks forget they were
once newcomers. I don't know what quality your bitch has, or how much
you know about your breed. I am assuming that you are doing some serious
thinking about this...it is a great undertaking, lots of researchand
work and no profit at the end if you doit right. But I do not assume you
are an evil or uninformed person because you would like to have puppies.
Take a while, learn all you can and then decide.
good luck, her...@endangeredspecies.com (former beginer)
Petyr Smitts
Cr...@ix.netcom.com said..
>Actually, I did point out that he was from Greece, not the US, and
>asked if anyone here could give him the pertinent info for Greece.
The wanna-be BYB is in fact a 16-year old girl, living in Greece.
JaneyPlane
> Foteini Drakou wrote:
> >
> > my female Alaskan Malamute could have babies.Those people told me that
> my dog shouldn't mate and have kids because she's not good for breeding,
or
> > something like that!!
> > Well, Scarlet (my dog) has had all her vacinations and is extremely
> > healthy. She IS an Alaskan Malamute (not mixed, not Siberian and
Malamute)
> > and very very beautiful.I've seen her parents and they're healthy and
very
> > great too.Scarlet does not have any diseases like hip displasia or sth
like
> > that.We got her from a pet shop and the owner of the shop is not such a
> > specialist when it comes to telling which one is a Mal and which one is
a
> > Husky. I'm planning to mate Scarlet with a good, healthy male dog when
> > becomes two and a half years old.I think it's the right age now,
because
> > I've asked more people about it.I'm not going to "spoil the breed" or
> > anything as silly as that.The male is going to be an Alaskan Malamute
too,
> > and there won't be any problems.
> > Also, sth else.A person sent me an e-mail which said I should be ready
> > that if my dog has children she may die!! I consider this the most
ridiculous thing > >I've ever heard in my entire life.Scarlet is going to
> > be under constant medical supervision when she's going to have
babies.Her
> > food will be as good and nutritious as it is today and her vet is going
to look
> > after her very very often.The chances of her or the puppies dying,
> > according to the vet's words, are one in a billion.So, thanks for the
silly
> > advice...
>
Puppies and Bitches do die, it's not uncommon even when you KNOW what
you're doing and have had years of experience. Have you ever heard of
fading puppies, mastitis, uterine inertia, breech births, eclampsia, etc
etc etc, the list goes on.
Your Vet says one in a BILLION, Jeez, I'd like to have money on that.
I wonder why the breeders of your bitch felt compelled to sell their
puppies thru a pet shop, have you read (and correctly interpreted) the Mals
breed standard, how does your girl (honestly) measure up.
And then there's the male you intend to use, it's not just a matter of
having a pretty looking bitch and putting her to a handsome looking dog.
You have to have some idea of the genes you are combining. Just because
they look healthy doesn't mean there aren't any hereditary problems that
will show up as they get older.
No dog is perfect, they ALL have faults, it's just a matter of whether
they're minor or major faults as to whether they should be bred from.
The one and only reason to breed from a dog is for the betterment of the
breed.
People own, love and enjoy canine activites with dogs that have faults and
are not considered breeding material, it doesn't make the dog any less
worthwhile, but for Gods sake don't breed just for the sake of letting your
girl have *babies*.
Janey,
Miko & Ellie
(dogs I have not bred with, even tho in my opinion are the best in the
world)
Kevin Cassella
I would just like to say that it is very refreshing to see a well
thought out, considerate and helpful post such as this in a newsgroup.
How often do we read through flame after flame, insult after insult,
with no real help offered (I am not referring to this group in
particular, but rather a general sampling). It's great to see someone
knowledgeable sharing there insights in a manner that is sensitive and
not at all condescending. Nice work, Joanne, you are a good example for
others!
Kevin Cassella
Jeanne M. Lucitt
I am involved in Bull Terrier Rescue with the BT club. If you are
interested in adopting a Bull Terrier (think Spuds MacKenzie- not Pit
Bull) you can call 1-800-BTBT 911 or e-mail me here or check out our web
page at www.localnet.com/~kasper/webj.htm for more Bully and dog related
sites. I'm located in Western NY and have a foster dog now. She is a 3
1/2 you bitch, white with black freckles on the backs of her ears,
spayed, has completed basic and novice obedience and is very good with
people. A bit rough on cats or small dogs as she likes to groom them and
doesn't take 'no thanks' for an answer.Snowball is a very sweet dog who
has not been abused but whose owners did not have the time to take care
of a dog and contacted BT rescue for help. All applicants will be
screened for suitability of placement and are asked to send a donation to
the Bull Terrier Welfare Club to help in medical expenses and costs
associated with running a rescue organization. The club works in
conjunction with our national club and tries to match the dogs and
adoptive families as carefully as possible. All dogs are screened for
any behavior problems by breeders, trainers or vets before being made
available for adoption. We also stand behind our dogs and if it doesn't
work out will take back the dog and help arrange other adoptions.
Jeanne (Lucitt) Kacprowicz
Atticus-3 yo Bully
Effie-8 yo Shar-pei
4 cats who think they're dogs
Kelly Graham
Come on, folks. Haven't you realized by now that this is a *child*
you're talking to, and no amount of factual information is going to
change her (?) mind. She wants her doggie to make babies and that's
that. I don't think the country has much of anything to do with it.
eliza...@earthlink.net
"Foteini Drakou" <pol...@prometheus.hol.gr> wrote:
>To all the people who answered my question via e-mail.I asked in what age
>my female Alaskan Malamute could have babies.Those people told me that my
>dog shouldn't mate and have kids because she's not good for breeding, or
>something like that!!
Well little Miss Wannabee Mal/Husky breeder, here is an educational
tool for you. Hope you can gain something from it. And after you read
it,you also might want to search this newsgroup for another 16 year
old, who is pumping out Merle and White Great Danes as fast as the
bitch will have them. You guys have a lot in common.
I am wondering where your parents stand on this if they indeed have
read all the posts pertaining to your future breeding. Surely they
would at least have to consider that all these people cannot be wrong.
How many letters have you had from people saying "Yeh. Go ahead and
breed, and after you have sold the puppies and "educated" the new
owners, as it is your responsibilty to do, help them when "they"
breed, and so on down the line, until you will in fact be responsible
for hundreds of unregistered, poor quality animals." ??
Oh and one more thing. Vets "love" their clients to breed dogs. Lots
more money for them!
Read and Enjoy.
ANNOUNCING "THE MIRACLE OF BIRTH" VIDEOTAPE
Intended for all those who want to breed little fluffy in order
to let their children experience the "miracle" of birth, this
real-time video tape set can either substitute for home breeding
or guide you in making the most of your breeding decision.
! Experience the joys of seeing a live puppy pop effortlessly
from its mother's body and see her consume the bloody afterbirth!
(Most children will squeal with delight when seeing this for the
first time - many will make a life-long commitment to celibacy
then and there.)
! Enjoy watching the frantic efforts of a breeder trying to
resuscitate a still-born puppy.
! See the hilarious actions of a bitch who searches for the puppy
she thinks she just dropped but which was quickly tossed into the
wastebasket because it was only a blackened, half-developed
fetus.
! Reserve a full 36 hours to see the entire set of tapes in one
sitting to really share the drama, boredom, and exhaustion of the
breeder as she labors to help her struggling bitch in extended
labor.
! Watch as a breeder tries to recruit several helpers to carry
her dying bitch to the car for transport to the nearest animal
hospital in a futile attempt at saving the beloved family pet.
(Seeing the children crying and asking what is happening is half
the fun!)
! Follow the fun as a breeder and his wife alternate duties
during a full week of 4-hour bottle feedings with a fading puppy
while also trying to keep 13 others dry and healthy!
And, as an extra added attraction:
! Laugh with us at the madcap antics of a typical shelter worker
as she accepts new animals while keeping a straight face as mom
and dad assure little Kevin that the nice lady will take VERY
DOOD care of 8-year floppy. Enjoy the thrills as she later
shoves unwanted puppies and adult dogs into a gas chamber as she
chokes back tears and goes home to try and explain to her
children just what she does at work!
! And, for a limited time only, we will include free of charge
the video tape of a recent arrest made by the local animal
control officer who discovered that someone had falsely declared
his male dogs neutered (to save on license fees) and when
discovered was planning to do the job himself at home!
The second half of the same bonus tape shows the chagrin of a
backyard breeder who was tracked down from her telephone number
which was all she ever gave out. This wonderful person would
arrange to meet people at local shopping malls where she handed
over her 4-5 week-old puppies for $120 each! We were all amazed
to find that those 20 puppies she was selling each year all came
from the same single bitch and dog.
Yes, if you, or a friend, are considering breeding Fluffy to show
children the "miracle" of birth, be sure to get this video and
show them the miracle of death at the same time!
We have high hopes for this video, following as it does on the
tremendous success of our first effort: "Doit yourself home
vasectomy, featuring George "squeaky" Baker," and its sequel,
"Doit yourself home explosives mixing, by Bob "lefty" Anderson."
!Special to the first five purchasers, one frozen still-born
puppy - just wait until you take it home and see how the kids'
eyes light up as the pup thaws!!
Copyright 1996, John A. McCormick, President and CEO, Nocturnal
Aviation Videos.
Reproduction and distribution of this advertisement in its
entirety strongly encouraged.
Phone, e-mail, or postal orders NOT accepted, this tape is sold
ONLY in person because I REALLY want to meet you.
DC
Why dont you try giving some factual information then as it pertains to GREECE?
C'mon, please. How come no one wants to tell her who she should talk to in
Greece?
Country has a hell of lot to do with it. So far I havent seen ANYONE post
the breed registry service, nor the OFA equivalent, nor the shelter stats,
nor the Malamute clubs IN GREECE.
For all we know this individual could be living in a fishing village of 100
people, or a mountain village. Her family could be goat farmers and cheese
makers. In some areas marriages are still put together by parents when the
people to be married are babies. My roomate was working on bringing
internet services to such villages in Greece. I knew one Greek student who
was getting his PhD so that when he went back to his countrie he would be
married to a woman from a wealthy family and recieve a large dowry. While
in a village in Egypt a friend had an offer of 2 camels, a bolt of some
fabric, and a bushel of dates for a female in the group. Given even these
few examples an intellegent individual could figure out that just *maybe*
their views on animals might be different as well.
Believe it or not, things are alot different in some other countries. The
fact that you do not realize this shows your ignorance and lack of
exposure.
Perhaps one of you so insistant on pointing out that this is merely an
unsophisticated child would like to answer her questions in her native
language?
Susan Mudgett aka little gator
S. Shrager (san...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: As an owner of Alaskan Malamutes, and anxiously expecting my first
: litter, I'm hoping I can shed some light on some of the things raised in
: this thread.
Sandi-can you tell us how many puppies there are in an average
Malemute litter?
eliza...@earthlink.net
:
>>For all we know this individual could be living in a fishing village of 100
>people, or a mountain village. Her family could be goat farmers and cheese
>makers.
Well they seem to be able to afford a computer, AND go to the nearest
town to buy a dog from the local pet shop, so I would suppose she is
not nearly as "sheltered" as you would have us think. Her English is
also very good so I suspect she has also had the advantage of
education - especially since she had the savvy to bring her thoughts
to this newsgroup. I am also hoping that your reference to a "goat
farmer" was meant with the best of intention, since I am a former
Goat Breeder, AND a long standing member of the Dairy Goat
Association. I also am a pretty good cheese maker although my daughter
is a better one I think. Being into goats and cheese, does not
preclude one from being intelligent and educated.
<In some areas marriages are still put together by parents when the
>people to be married are babies. My roomate was working on bringing
>internet services to such villages in Greece. I knew one Greek student who
>was getting his PhD so that when he went back to his countrie he would be
>married to a woman from a wealthy family and recieve a large dowry.
You might be surprised to learn that many marriages are still arranged
- especially in the Armenian community here in the USA. My husband is
Armenian, and a suitable husband, was found for his sisters by the
family. All three brothers of my Armenian boss, had their wives picked
by their Mother with no questions asked. Many Armenian men go back to
the old country to bring a wife here. Several Russians I know have
recently done the same thing.
Liz
*********************************************************
BRIARWOOD - Since 1959
Visit our beautiful award-winning Homepage.
http://home.earthlink.net/~elizabethk/
Updated January 24th.1997
In every path there is a puddle.
*********************************************************
Laurie Warner
Susan Mudgett aka little gator wrote:
>
> Foteini Drakou (pol...@prometheus.hol.gr) wrote:
>
>
> Does this dog have papers? What breed do they say she is? What kennel
> club are they from? If she has them they could be faked or switched by
> mistake, as both are easily done by pet shops. If she has no papers
> there's no way to be sure she's a Malamute.
Even if the Malamute *does* have papers, it's still no assurance she's a
purebred dog. Pirating AKC numbers is just too easy. I've seen it happen.
L. Warner
The Carrolls
I just love reading that...it's such a reality shock every time and must
gross out those in here who don't know what they're doing.
Emily
TRlSTIN
<<Has anyone noticed that the person to whom you're all responding
to appears to be living in Greece? Therefore, comments about AKC
registration, back yard breeders, etc. etc. are probably not making
any sense at all.>>
Yes, it's been mentioned several times she's from Greece. And maybe the
comments won't make any sense to her, but hopefully others (from the US)
reading these newsgroups will have learned a lot and decided not to breed
their dog after all.
Susan Mudgett aka little gator
: once newcomers. I don't know what quality your bitch has, or how much
: you know about your breed. I am assuming that you are doing some serious
The owner has admitted that the pet store owner said the bitch was a
Siberian Husky, the vet says she's an Alaskan Malemute, and the owner
thinks both breeds are identical as puppies.
The owner has made it clear that he or she knows nothing about the
dog's breed, and doesn't even know what breed that is.
eliza...@earthlink.net
eliza...@earthlink.net
S. Shrager
On 22 Mar 1997, Susan Mudgett aka little gator wrote:
> Sandi-can you tell us how many puppies there are in an average
> Malemute litter?
It totally depends. A local breeder right now has a 4-pup litter. My
Tanu came from a 12 pup litter (though one died when the mother rolled
over on it--more common in larger litters as there are more for the mother
to keep track of and more to get into trouble), and Seli from a 13-pup
litter. Seli had gained, by 7 weeks, 15 lbs, and is NOT fat--this is
puppy weight. If she gains another 5 (which she should, with the period
of the most growth about to happen), and produces good-sized puppies,
(1-1.5 lbs), she'll probably have at least ten pups. And even I, with
good connections and a good referral source & base, am more than a little
nervous about finding homes for all of them. This is a hard breed to own
and is not for just anyone.
Being able to predict litter size and the mother's ability to be a good
whelper or a good mother is very dependent upon what that bitch's mother
was like. This is another problem with not knowing the parental lineage
of this female. I have known of lines which are awful mothers (though
heavily celebrated in the conformation ring), and all pups had to be hand
raised. Many died or were not healthy adults from the lack of maternal
attention.
eliza...@earthlink.net
Petie
ROGER AND HERMINE STOVER <#espe...@popd.ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<333328...@popd.ix.netcom.com>...
>
> Don't be angry. Tell you why. Recently a lot of folks are upset an the
> large numbers of unwanted dogs in shelters, and so forht. there is a
> movement to discourage breedings by newcomers. Folks forget they were
> once newcomers. I don't know what quality your bitch has, or how much
> you know about your breed. I am assuming that you are doing some serious
> thinking about this...it is a great undertaking, lots of researchand
> work and no profit at the end if you doit right. But I do not assume you
> are an evil or uninformed person because you would like to have puppies.
> Take a while, learn all you can and then decide.
> good luck, her...@endangeredspecies.com (former beginer)
What a great reply :)
Not only is polite and informative, there was a great message to be heard.
AS I heard it "We all started as complete novices at this, how easy we
forget others also want to get involved"
for many of us when we started in this, we didn't have access to the I-Net,
there was no I-net. We never got to get our views out to so many people,
we had to phone and talk to a few other established people. WE only look
like an idiot to a few :)
Petie
Chris Kosmakos
: >For all we know this individual could be living in a fishing village of 100
: >people, or a mountain village. Her family could be goat farmers and cheese
: >makers.
Amazing! I've been in both fishing and mountain villages in Greece and
can assure you that it is very wrong to assume some kind of 3rd world
situation. Greece is a very modern European country. Yes, there are
cultural traditions, including some about the neutering, restriction, and
housing of dogs, but they are not what we would call extreme.
Just to illustrate my point - I was in the Greek Isles when the '89
earthquake hit San Francisco. We pulled into an island port and went to
a weaver's home to watch the CNN newscoverage.
Lynn Kosmakos
--
chri...@netcom.com
CCCPUPS
Only on the Internet could you make an offhand comment about "goat
farmers" and come bang up against one! What a small world this has
become!
Charlotte Creeley,
Former dairy farmer, now citydweller with computer...
Carol Dunster
On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:06:00 -0600, address...@to.avoid.spam (DC)
wrote:
>Why dont you try giving some factual information then as it pertains to GREECE?
>
>C'mon, please. How come no one wants to tell her who she should talk to in
>Greece?
>
>Country has a hell of lot to do with it. So far I havent seen ANYONE post
>the breed registry service, nor the OFA equivalent, nor the shelter stats,
>nor the Malamute clubs IN GREECE.
You make some good points about the country and its cultural aspects
towards dog care. However, there is still the factual information that
the dog could have, or carry Hip Dysplasia. Perhaps there is no OFA
type organization, but her dog's puppies would benefit from the extra
care that x-raying the mother's hips (and father's) would bring to the
litter. You don't need OFA to find out if your dog is sound, just to
use as evidence for others. The bitch should not be bred if she is
unsound, no matter where she lives!
If conditions in Greece are poor for pets (and I doubt that this dog
is poorly treated - her owner is literate in a foreign language and
can afford access to a computer, so hopefully she can afford some of
th extra care that makes a litter well cared for), then education as
to good breeding practices is a good thing. I do agree that many can
be quite self righteous about it and not thoughtful as to the
circumstances of the person asking the question.
>For all we know this individual could be living in a fishing village of 100
>people, or a mountain village. Her family could be goat farmers and cheese
>makers. In some areas marriages are still put together by parents when the
>people to be married are babies. My roomate was working on bringing
>internet services to such villages in Greece. I knew one Greek student who
>was getting his PhD so that when he went back to his countrie he would be
>married to a woman from a wealthy family and recieve a large dowry. While
>in a village in Egypt a friend had an offer of 2 camels, a bolt of some
>fabric, and a bushel of dates for a female in the group. Given even these
>few examples an intellegent individual could figure out that just *maybe*
>their views on animals might be different as well.
However, one of the benefits of internet access is the exchange of
cultural ideas. We can all learn from this and it would be of benefit
for more modern breeding practices to be spread around. This girl with
the Malamute seems to think that having its shots makes a dog
"healthy" for breeding purposes. She should learn that there is more
to it. The animal should be both physically healthy (a good start) and
genetically healthy. Genetic health is determined by tests appropriate
for the breed. In this case, hip x-rays (preferably taken after age 2,
so that the hips are mature) would be a good place to start. Large
breeds can have problems that can be passed on (in worse, crippling
form) that are not obvious without x-rays. She would not know this.
>Believe it or not, things are alot different in some other countries. The
>fact that you do not realize this shows your ignorance and lack of
>exposure.
I tend to agree with this.
>Perhaps one of you so insistant on pointing out that this is merely an
>unsophisticated child would like to answer her questions in her native
>language?
I definitely agree with this! However, I cannot speak Greek, but she
does not speak the language of dog breeders. She lacks the basic
knowledge that many of us take for granted, but this does not make her
a bad person. Her cultural background is important, but, if it
includes a lack of breeding knowledge, it is something to overcome in
this instance. I would say that of a person in the USA (and have) as
well as a person of another country.
I would hope that she takes the opportunity to learn from the answers
to her questions, rather than to just get angry. Her dog would
benefit. I have not gotten the newsgroups for the last couple of
weeks, so do not have the original post. If she wishes to email me, I
would be happy to answer questions about dog breeding and how to do it
well as well as how to do it!
I have 20 years experience breeding, showing and grooming dogs and
like to share it as an online mentor...
Carol
--
Patchwork English Setters and
Carwyn Silky Terriers
http://www.prodogs.com/dbn/carwyn/index.htm
TAZ2000x
I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there is a chance that your
female could die IF complications do arrise. This is not a very common
thing, but it is still a possibility. The comments about you "spoiling
the breed" were probably ment as a warning. If you haven't studdied some
genetics and read alot of books on breeding you could come out of this
with poor pups. You must make sure that your females faults are
compensated by your males. Also the cost of the mating, welping and the
vet bills are verry expensive. Very few people who breed thier dogs only
once or twice make a profit. If you have any questions please email me.
Many of the people with whom i show dogs with haven't breed dogs until
they had shown for at least 5 years.
Carol Dunster
I do want to address the theory that losing the bitch or the puppies
is a "one in a billion" chance. The actual probability of losing at
least one pup in a litter (raised by an expert) is one in ten! A long
way from one in a billion. After 20 years of study and hard work, I
still sometimes lose a puppy from a litter and it still causes me
grief and pain!
You are less likely to lose a bitch - I never have, but I have worked
closely with good vets (you know, the kind that have a clue!) and put
many hundreds of dollars into C-sections (emergency operations to
retrieve the pups when the labor goes wrong) and into treating
infections of the uterus or the mammary glands. These things happen
even when all precautions are taken. I have spent weeks hand feeding
and nursing a bitch night and day to save their lives. I was only able
to because I have a lot of experience and knowledge.
These are important issues, not to be taken lightly when you consider
breeding a bitch. I hope that anyone considering breeding take the
time to really learn the risks involved and to prepare to deal with
them if they happen. It would be heartbreaking to lose your pet, when
all you wanted was another like her...
Mojo's Mom
Carroll Parkison wrote:
>
> Mojo's Mom wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > To all the people who answered my question via e-mail.I asked in what age
> > > my female Alaskan Malamute could have babies.Those people told me that my
> > > dog shouldn't mate and have kids because she's not good for breeding, or
> > > something like that!!
> > > healthy. She IS an Alaskan Malamute (not mixed, not Siberian and Malamute)
> > > and very very beautiful.I've seen her parents and they're healthy and very
>
> > > (I'm referring only to the two people who sent me an e-mail till now).
> > > --
> > > Anyway the wind blows
> > > Queen are forever
> > Great. More genetic timebombs in the breed bred by people who don't
> > have the slightest knowledgew of how to breed.
> > Well, since nothing got through to you, please consider one thing.
> > You can't say a dog doesn't have hd unless you have her xrayed at age
> > 2, and send the xrays into an OFA certifican office to have them
> > evalulated. Just because you dont *see* any problems yet does NOT mean
> > they aren't there.
> > TerriI would just like to know how in the world you saw the parents of a pet
> shop pupppy?
>
> Carroll Parkison
> car...@teleport.com
> http://www.teleport.com/~carrollp/index.shtml">
You got the wrong person here! Ive never bought an animal from
a pet shop in my entire life. Well, saltwater fish, maybe, but they
don't sell anything but saltwater fish and supplies, either.
Terri
posted and emailed
dogsnus
Chris Kosmakos wrote:
>
> : >For all we know this individual could be living in a fishing village of 100
> : >people, or a mountain village. Her family could be goat farmers and cheese
> : >makers.
>
> earthquake hit San Francisco. We pulled into an island port and went to
> a weaver's home to watch the CNN newscoverage.
>
> Lynn Kosmakos
> --
how
advanced the rest of the world has become. The former *third world*
countries
have as many technologies as we do in the USA. The *real* third world
countries
today are the current poor in the countries like Egypt, Iran, Vietnam,
Korea,
China, etc....remember I said the countries,not the cities.....These
countries
still have censored news, tv, etc...
Terri
MaryJo
This doesn't have much to do with the topic I know...... This letter
brought back memories of a vacation in Greece I had a few years back for a
couple of weeks. I don't remember much about dogs but there were cats
everywhere!!!!!!! Hundreds of them!!!!!! We would sit at outdoor
restaurants and they would come up to you and beg for tidbits. Being a cat
lover I of course obliged very often. These were some of the healthiest
creatures anywhere. Outside of houses and shops there would be cans and
bowls of food for them. I am sure they eat better than a lot of children in
third world countries do. I heard but don't know if it's true or not that
the cat population is encouraged to keep down the rodent population
certainly mice and rats should be on the endangered species list there with
the feline population being what it is!!!!!!!!!
Do not take this in support of breeding the Malamute though, I would be
very suprised if there weren't enough dogs of all kinds in Greece already!
Just Remineicing (s.p.),
MJ
P.S. I know that you mean well, that you intend to give all of your puppies
to your friends and families. If they think as you do though what about
their puppies and their puppies' puppies? Who will give them homes? Will
they end up abandoned in the countryside because no one wants them? End up
in abusive homes? Think about that. You're just affecting the dog
population with 10 or so new puppies but potentially hundreds.............
Dawn L. Martinez-Byrne
I missed the original post, but some of the followups
were, shall we say, interesting.
To the original poster:
If at all possible, get her papers from the shop where you
bought her. If you can't, then she should be spayed.
If you can, then you should contact the Greek kennel clubs
and see who in your area breeds Malamutes. These people will
know what health tests should be done, and can direct you
to the veterinarians who can do them.
She shouldn't be bred before she is two, which gives you plenty
of time to get her properly and thoroughly evaluated. Mals do
have many health problems, some of which can't be detected
without testing. CHD, hip dysplasia, and so on can't be detected
just from a visual exam.
She sounds like a sweet, lovely Mal. So was mine. But she had
some hormonal problems, which were found by blood-tests. And
much as our friends and family wanted her puppies, it was best
for her, them and the breed to spay her.
Good luck.
Dawn
Michele Ellington
MaryJo (mar...@rmi.net) wrote:
> I heard but don't know if it's true or not that
> the cat population is encouraged to keep down the rodent population
> certainly mice and rats should be on the endangered species list there with
> the feline population being what it is!!!!!!!!!
Still off topic, but in a recent sociology class we were told that
a third of the stored food supply in undeveloped countries is eaten
by rats. That is a staggering figure, in light of the hunger problem
in many of these nations. I'd imagine that cats have plenty of rats
to chase!