Batteries: Two 6 volt vs. 12 volt....for RV use.
Cheapie
do have the web, i e-mailed an authority.... TROJAN Battery Company
I asked for the merits of their 6 volt golf car batteries and a
comparison to their 12 volt deep cycle RV batteries.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my reply from Jim Lee
There are several advantages in selecting the 6-volt golf-car battery
over the typical 12-volt marine/RV for use in your RV.
1. Generally speaking, with the proper maintenance, 6-volt batteries
have a much longer life, as much as two times longer, than the
12-volt. This is a result of thicker plates which can better
withstand the effects of deep cycling.
2. Six-volt batteries usually have more capacity than 12-volt
batteries. When comparing capacity, the 20-hr rate and the reserve
minutes rate are commonly used.
The 20-hr rate measures the total amount of energy that a battery
can deliver over 20 hours, at a constant rate of discharge, before the
battery drops to 10.5 volts (100% discharged). The T-105, our premier
6-volt golf-car battery, has a 20-hr capacity rate of 225 amp-hour
versus 115 amp-hour for our best marine/RV battery, the 27RVH.
Reserve minutes is the number of minutes that a battery can run a
25-amp load before it drops to 10.5 volts. The T-105 has 447 reserve
minutes while the 27RVH has 200 reserve minutes.
3. Because they are original equipment on most golf cars and are use
in a variety of applications such as solar, aerial work platform, and
floor cleaning machine, our golf-car batteries (especially the T-105)
can be found in more places and are less expensive than many of the
12-volt batteries.
The price range for the T-105 is typically $50 to $80 while the 27RVH
will cost around $80 to $110.
Of course there are disadvantages to using the 6-volt batteries.
1. You have to buy two 6-volt batteries and connect them in series in
order to make a 12-volt bank.
2. The 6-volt batteries usually weigh a little more than the 12-volt.
The T-105 weighs 66 lbs vs 59 lbs for the 27RVH.
3. The 6-volt batteries are slightly wider and taller than the
12-volt. The dimensions (L x W x H) for the T-105 are 10 3/8 x 7 1/8 x
11 3/16 inches while the dimensions for the 27RVH are 12 x 6 3/4 x 9
3/4 inches.
Jim Lee
Trojan Battery Company
Product Applications Engineer
800-423-6569 Ext. 301
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which means, if you need a longer time between charges and longer
battery life and because they last longer they will be more
inexpensive to use than the typical 12 volt...
Get Trojan T-105's.
I've have no connection with the Trojan Company I just e-mailed Trojan
and asked the questions and Jim Lee gave his reply. I have used Trojan
T-105's for over 20 years in 3 golf car's and do recommend them over
other 6 volt golf car batteries.... i've tried the other brands.....
I just want to make sure you have enough information to make the right
decision for you..... I've made mine....
sign me,
cheapie
Stephen Bourgholtzer
bulk of the content of your posts. However, they do repeat something you
have said, and which is a very odd claim:
"The T-105, our premier 6-volt golf-car battery, has a 20-hr capacity
rate of 225 amp-hour versus 115 amp-hour for our best marine/RV battery,
the 27RVH."
Now, of course, this claim is true, but since you need two 6V batteries
to work at all, then why compare the performance of two 6V batteries to
one 12V battery? If you compare two 6V to two 12V, then the 12V bank has
a capacity of 230 A-hr vs. 225 A-hr for the 6V bank. To do any valid
comparison, you have to choose battery banks where the size or weight
are similar, and this is the comparison I made in the previous thread.
When you put two batteries together, you add their energy capacity:
V X A-hr = E
If you put them in series, then the sum is 2V X A-hr = 2E
If you put them in parallel, the sum is V X 2A-hr = 2E
In other words, for 2 batteries in series, the voltage is doubled, but
the A-hr capacity is the same as for one battery. For 2 batteries in
parallel, the voltage remains the same, but the A-hr capacity is
doubled.
Steve
Cheapie
I'm not making a comparison, i'm showing the reason to upgrade...
I pointed out that two 6 volt batteries in series give more time
between charges ( about twice) and have a longer life than one 12 volt
marine/rv battery.
If you need or want more time between charges and longer battery
life...
The simplest and easiest and cheapest way to upgrade from one 12 volt
marine/rv battery to two Trojan T-105 six volt golf car batteries...
Average low end cost according to Trojan is on the T-105's is 50$ so
times two is 100$ and their 27RVH is 80$... so since the T-105's can
last or may last twice as long (according to trojan). If you had to
replace the 27RVH then you would be 160$ into batteries while you
still have only 100$ in the T-105's
NOW,
If you buy two 12 volt Trojan 27RVH rv batteries then even though i'm
picky, the time between charges is about the same, except the battery
life is shorter, you will have to buy a new set of 12 volt batteries
quicker than a new set of 6 volts.... and.........
Trojan T-105 is 50$ times two is 100$
Trojan 27RVH is 80$ times two is 160$, so you've spent 60$ more to get
about the same power and less battery life....
The screen name is cheapie, i want value for my money, i want a deal,
i want to get the most for the money...
The only logical argument for two 12 volts, is that its easier to
replace them on the road ( and you will be doing that <grin>), but
maintaining 3 golf cars for 20 years, i personally have never had a 6
volt fail over night, they always get thirsty and the more wanter they
want the closer they are to failure....hydrometer in hand, i spot the
failing cell and watch it closely.....it was weeks or even months
before i thought of replacements.... I've got a laptop and the Trojan
web site url, how hard could it be to find a location ahead of time
when i'm on the road...
Again, i was never making a comparison i was showing the merit of
buying a pretty popular excellent golf car batteries the Trojan
T-105's to make a upgrade from your present 12 volt marine/rv
battery... and if you use two 12 volt marine/rv trojan batteries then
you've spend 60$ more to get less battery life, because the plates are
thinner in the 12 volt batteries......
In case someone missed it, i was not doing a valid comparison, i was
showing a better way if you needed more time between charges and a
longer batter life... i've got lots of posts that say it's not better,
but if you save 60$ plus tax, what is not better than that????
I'm somewhat familiar with electronics, but very familiar with how to
get the most for my money....
I'm not really attempting to flame any of you that posted the proper
math and attempted to show me what i already knew, you had just missed
the point, money wise, not electronically.............most of you made
excellent points and showed how two 12's were electrically about the
same as two 6's..........
EXCEPT
If anyone can show me why i should spend 60$ more and buy two 12 volt
Trojan marine/rv batteries and get a shorter batter life, please post
here, i'm keen to know...
sincerely,
cheapie
Thomas
biased opinion in other battery posts. I'll agree that two golf cart
batteries are better than one 12V any day, but two 12v vs two 6V of the same
quality construction have absolutely no difference other than they provide
different voltage.
I want to know how I'm going to fit two 6 volt units into my battery
compartment which only holds one battery. I'm about to purchase a
replacement unit today for the generator compartment location, which has
sufficed for 4 years. I could get two golf CART(they are not cars are they?)
units and they would fit in the empty generator compartment, but I won't. It
is easier for me to deal with 12V. :P
Six volt batteries are perfect for large battery arrays and that's not what
a typical RV needs.
You are beginning to look like a troll to me.
Give it a rest would you?
Thomas
Cheapie <Che...@a.cheap.one> wrote in message
news:37567c82...@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com...
> I'll be the first to admit i'm not authority on batteries, but since i
> do have the web, i e-mailed an authority.... TROJAN Battery Company
>
> I asked for the merits of their 6 volt golf car batteries and a
> comparison to their 12 volt deep cycle RV batteries.
<...tedious info snipped...>
>
> sign me,
> cheapie
>
Herbert Hannam
because they are down to 50 % capacity. The best price I could find for
Trojan 105 was $78 apiece. The best price for 115 amp size 27 deep cycle
was $50. The economics are not overwhelming for either case. Since my
battery support structure was made to accomodate regular deep cycle
batteries I went size 27 deep cycle. They are far easier to find. I have
a hydralic slide out which draws 50 amps when the floor is being raised
in preparation to slide in. This has helped me decide never to let my
batteries discharge more than 50%. This helps defeat the argument for
the Trojan's ability to take a 80% discharge. If one of the 6v Batteries
goes bad with a slide out you are in an uncomfortable position to get
the room in so you can be on your way. With two 12v batteries when one
goes bad you can still get the room in.
ROMEO RAABE
bateries together are much more durable, and will withstand much more
abuse (which most of our cheap factory converters will give them) than
the two 12V batteries.
As for Mr. Hannam's slide in - when the two batteries are wired together
in a battery bank, one will not go down leaving another fresh battery
waiting in the wings. They both go down and recharge together.
I, myself have two 12V wired together as I bought them prior to
understanding the durability increase with 6V batteries. When they need
replacement they will be replaced by two 6V to produce 12V power.
al...@nospam.net
>Cheapie wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm not making a comparison, i'm showing the reason to upgrade...
<snip>
Then there is always the unusual, as in my case. I have two completely
separate 12 v systems, meaning I would have to go to four 6 volts
batteries. I just don't have that much room. My 2 batteries are never
connected to each other for any reason. So it is 2 type 27s for me.
Tom
Herbert Hannam
My Honda will of course charge the remaining good battery. Some things
are so obvious that in the interest of brevity they need not be
mentioned. My point that I can still get out of Big Bend (quite some
distance from anywhere) after a short delay still holds. You have to do
what you feel comfortable with after appraising you own situation.
MATT
Ad hominem attack!
Maybe you're just plain wrong, Thomas! That's the inference when you personally
attack the opponent. I saw how you snuck in "the same quality construction."
I thank you for this, though: a difference of opinion or even perceptions
allows a newbie, like me, to do some real learning.
Stephen Bourgholtzer
>
> You guys seem to be missing a valid point Cheapie made - the two 6V
> bateries together are much more durable, and will withstand much more
> abuse (which most of our cheap factory converters will give them) than
> the two 12V batteries.
>
Now this statement as it stands is simply incorrect. Read the following
modification:
[You guys seem to be missing a valid point Cheapie made - the two GOLF
CART batteries together are much more durable, and will withstand much
more abuse (which most of our cheap factory converters will give them)
than the two RV/MARINE batteries.]
Now, if this is what you meant, nobody is disagreeing with Cheapie on
this point. Re-read the posts, and I think you'll understand the issue
here is different.
Do not mix up the quality of batteries chosen for comparison with the
relative merits of 6V in series and 12V in parallel, where the issue for
both sides has technical and real merit. If you want to get 12V
batteries as good in deep-discharge conditions as the golf cart
batteries, they are certainly available, as are better ones.
Steve
Vince Wirth
>Then there is always the unusual, as in my case. I have two completely
>separate 12 v systems, meaning I would have to go to four 6 volts
>batteries. I just don't have that much room. My 2 batteries are never
>connected to each other for any reason. So it is 2 type 27s for me.
Thorn,
How do the two batteries get charged if they are never hooked
together?? Also are the two separate systems just for the RV or is
one used for the vehicle? If so then most all of us have two separate
systems. There is nothing wrong with having a 12 volt, type 27 for
the vehicle and two 6 volt ones for the RV.
Vince Wirth
http://home.earthlink.net/~vincewirth
Bammini
why he is doing something to his RV. It is very obvious that if you only have
room for one battery and you must have 12V you will use a 12V battery, however
if your RV has 2 batteries you have a choice. This is my situation and at the
risk of offending someone I am going to replace my 2 12V batteries with 2 6V. I
believe the differance in cycle life of 100-350 vs 500-750 at about the same
initial cost is well worth it. If anyone is offended I am sorry but it is my
RV.
Cheapie
keep it going...
There are many ways to battery a RV, as long as the batterier
understands all the ways, then he or she can do what's best...for
them.
There is some confusion amongst us though.....
Remember if your out go exceeds your income, they your upkeep is your
downfall.....
sign me,
cheapie
Cheapie
>I didn't bother reading through your post as I've seen plenty of your long
>biased opinion in other battery posts. I'll agree that two golf cart
>batteries are better than one 12V any day, but two 12v vs two 6V of the same
>quality construction have absolutely no difference other than they provide
>different voltage.
long... using Trojan as a example 60$ more and you need to replace
them about twice as often.... to me that is a difference...
>I want to know how I'm going to fit two 6 volt units into my battery
>compartment which only holds one battery. I'm about to purchase a
>replacement unit today for the generator compartment location, which has
>sufficed for 4 years. I could get two golf CART(they are not cars are they?)
that's the ezgo site, my favorite golf car....
>units and they would fit in the empty generator compartment, but I won't. It
>is easier for me to deal with 12V. :P
Those of us that want the extra time between charges and better cost
ratio, find a way to make them fit, those of us that do not want to go
to the time and effort or additional cost, don't find a way....
And that's OK too......
>Six volt batteries are perfect for large battery arrays and that's not what
>a typical RV needs.
It's up to the user, if you have all the facts then you can make the
choice, and from all these posts, i did not know there was a "typical
RV user" <grin>...
>
>You are beginning to look like a troll to me.
Nah, i've go better things to do, i usually over post on batteries,
tires, TV and water....
>
>Give it a rest would you?
Agent newsgroup reader has a filter, you can get a freebie at ....
and eliminate me completey.....as far as your concerned,
then again, you did reply..
<grin>.
>Thomas
>
Cheapie
>Ad hominem attack!
>Maybe you're just plain wrong, Thomas! That's the inference when you personally
>attack the opponent. I saw how you snuck in "the same quality construction."
>I thank you for this, though: a difference of opinion or even perceptions
>allows a newbie, like me, to do some real learning.
>
>
Trojan as a example....
The difference is they initially cost more (the two 12 volt) and they
do not last as long... using Trojan as a example 60$ more and you need
to replace them about twice as often.... to me that is a difference...
http://www.goodsamclub.com/highways/batteries/batteries.html
look near the end of the above page for the minimum lifetime cost on
the right of the chart... then follow it over to the left side.......
let me know what you find.....
All the engineers have graciously pointed out that two six volt and
two twelve volt are both about the same electrically.....
To which i must agree...
But, ( remember screen name cheapie)
If you look at the chart, it shows the cost of operation significantly
cheaper <grin> with the golf car batteries...
I don't know what you call it but to me it's
"more bang for the buck" a better deal, more economical or cheaper
operation......
If your out go exceeds your income then you up keep is your
downfall....
sign me,
cheapie
Hugh Darling
battery compartment that holds two batteries. It is not tall enough to
install two 6V batteries. My only choice is two 12V ones.
Hugh<):>)
Bammini wrote in message <19990530171948...@ng-cp1.aol.com>...
ROMEO RAABE
mention that there are 12V deep cycle batteries that are as durable as
the 6V golf cart type batteries. Can you tell us what brand or where
they are available and anything about price?
al...@nospam.net
Wirth) wrote:
>al...@nospam.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Then there is always the unusual, as in my case. I have two completely
>>separate 12 v systems, meaning I would have to go to four 6 volts
>>batteries. I just don't have that much room. My 2 batteries are never
>>connected to each other for any reason. So it is 2 type 27s for me.
>
>Thorn,
>How do the two batteries get charged if they are never hooked
>together??
Isolators
> Also are the two separate systems just for the RV or is
>one used for the vehicle?
2 separate systems for the trailer, the towing rig has it's own
normal/starting battery. To be more specific, I never do any camping
other than "dry" or boondocking camping. Therefor I use what used to
be the 110 circuit for an all 12 v. operation. Tom
Cheapie
Here is a good page posted by another poster....
http://www.goodsamclub.com/highways/batteries/batteries.html
Near the end it shows approximate lifetime cost on batteries...
With the 6 volt deep cycle being the winner...
I know if i could get my hands on some 12 volt deep cycle batteries
like they use on the space shuttle, that they would be much better
<grin>, if in fact they used them...
But, most of us, also consider cost when making a purchase..
The again, if you have the facts, it is up to you.....
sign me,
cheapie
Stephen Bourgholtzer
FAQ's as well.
A note: there is one good reason for the 6V golf cart batteries vs. the
equivalent 12V model - the 12V battery weighs about twice as much and is
twice as large. I.e., you would use one of these batteries for every two
T-105 size 6V ones. That's more than one person would usually be
comfortable handling.
However AGM style batteries are superior to the golf cart batteries in
performance, and have certain other handling and storage advantages. The
12V models do come in more convenient sizes. You pay dearly for their
superiority in initial cost, though.
The 6V golf cart batteries are a good choice for RV'rs, if you have the
room. Two of those are taller and heavier than two group 27 12V
batteries. The only use disadvantage of the 6V option is that if one
battery fails, there is no backup - you have no electricity until you
replace it.
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Deep_Cycle.htm
Steve
charles copeland
Stephen Bourgholtzer <bour...@malpha.hrl.hac.com> wrote:
>
>The 6V golf cart batteries are a good choice for RV'rs, if you have the
>room. Two of those are taller and heavier than two group 27 12V
>batteries.
I have a type 24 battery on the a-frame of my TT. Thinking about
putting two 6V batteries on a-frame to upgrade. However, its clear
some type of custom frame would have to be fabricated and welded to
the frame to make this possible.
Has anyone out there done this? Who did it for you and how much?
Gary Sanders
>
> The 6V golf cart batteries are a good choice for RV'rs, if you have the
> room. Two of those are taller and heavier than two group 27 12V
> battery fails, there is no backup - you have no electricity until you
> replace it.
Actually, if two batteries are involved, it doesn't matter much
whether it's two 6 volt batteries in series or two 12 v's in
parallel, when it comes to a battery failure.
I have two group 27 12 volt starting batteries in parallel in our
motorhome, and for months the batteries wouldn't hold a charge for
more than a few days, even with a large solar panel connected to them.
I assumed I had something continuously draining the batteries, but could
never find anything.
I finally checked the specific gravity, and discovered that one of the
batteries (both of which were only a year or so old) had one or more
bad cells. I disconnected the defective battery, and no more problems.
The good battery had been discharging into the bad one.
So it really doesn't matter whether you're using 6 volt or 12 volt
batteries - either type can leave you stranded at the worse possible
time.
--
Gary Sanders
Bait for spammers (With credit to E. Needham):
root@localhost
postmaster@localhost
admin@localhost
abuse@localhost
postm...@127.0.0.1
Thomas
battery/generators.
It would be a great application for Trojan 6v though!
OK, it takes me some time, but I'm seeing humor here :)
Thomas
Cheapie <Che...@a.cheap.one> wrote in message
news:3757e4a0...@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com...
<...>
> I know if i could get my hands on some 12 volt deep cycle batteries
> like they use on the space shuttle, that they would be much better
> <grin>, if in fact they used them...
<...>
Stephen Bourgholtzer
one battery, recharge the good one, and keep on camping. Exactly as I
said. If they had been 6V, there would have been no option. You can't
disconnect one and run on 6V. End of camping trip, or at least until you
drive into town and buy a replacement.
You can always recharge a discharged good storage battery, but not a bad
one.
Steve
Williamette
to fit them??
Cheapie <Che...@a.cheap.one> wrote in message
news:37619d7f...@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com...
Michael R. Daymude, Esq.
imagine they do exist. Let's see what Cheapie has to say. I bet he knows a
place where you can get `em wholesale. -- Michael
Bammini
Thomas
Cheapie <Che...@a.cheap.one> wrote in message
news:3764a246...@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com...
>
<...>
> The difference is they initially cost more and they do not last as
> long... using Trojan as a example 60$ more and you need to replace
> them about twice as often.... to me that is a difference...
I can't argue with this. There must an economic savings using 2 Trojan 6v vs
2 Trojan 12V, if Trojan themselves say so.
<...>
> Yes, they are Golf Cars...
>
> http://www.ezgo.textron.com/
Your Trojan site calls them Carts :)
Sorry, I know this is one of your minor peaves and I couldn't resist. I'm a
punk kid at heart.
<...>
> Those of us that want the extra time between charges and better cost
> ratio, find a way to make them fit, those of us that do not want to go
> to the time and effort or additional cost, don't find a way....
>
> And that's OK too......
I haven't run out of juice using my 2 12V so this isn't an issue for me.
Before I got the PV panel and the 2 real(I think) 12V deepcycles it was a
problem. My first 12V deep cycle was definately a cheap imitation.
> It's up to the user, if you have all the facts then you can make the
> choice, and from all these posts, i did not know there was a "typical
> RV user" <grin>...
Actually, I wrote "typical RV" but I get your point. In my mind, I think of
typical as being small rather than large, but that is showing my bias as I
have a small rv.
> >You are beginning to look like a troll to me.
> Nah, i've go better things to do, i usually over post on batteries,
> tires, TV and water....
Ok, you have to defend your point. It wasn't a troll. It was a post
defending your point you had repeatedly made in other posts.
> >
> >Give it a rest would you?
>
> Agent newsgroup reader has a filter, you can get a freebie at ....
>
> http://www.forteinc.com/
>
> and eliminate me completey.....as far as your concerned,
> then again, you did reply..
> <grin>.
I wouldn't think of censoring you for a second. You make a good case for a
6V, but it is not as clear cut a decision as you make it out to be in your
pro 6V posts.
I did ask for it, didn't I ?
Regards,
Thomas
Jim Phillips
two golf car batteries. It was very heavy duty. The company is named Amp
King Battery.
jp
Williamette wrote in message <7j1ndf$504$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>ok now that I got your 2 6 volt batteries where do I find the plastic boxes
>to fit them??
>
>Cheapie <Che...@a.cheap.one> wrote in message
Ralph Noack
battery box was made using a cooler. Sized to hold them with a wood locator
/ centering plate with terminals. All enclosed with inlet and outlet vents.
Ralph Noack - Trailer Life since 1991 in collection!
Cheapie
<willi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>ok now that I got your 2 6 volt batteries where do I find the plastic boxes
>to fit them??
>
I seen the amp king company response and the cooler idea...
I've got mine too, one is going where the 12 v coach battery went and
the other is going to hang underneath behind the passenger seat under
the floor mounted from above...
If i've messed up on my measurements then i'll hang the other one on
the other side of the coach...
I've bought some hammerite (rust resistant paint, from home depot) to
paint the bracket with.....
sign me,
cheapie
Mickey Mathena
Hugh, your comments are exactly one of the points I previously tried to
make. The best battery is the one that fits the users needs and
limitations. Local availability, pricing, and available space all go into
the decision process and these varables are different for everyone.
Mickey
Hugh Darling wrote in message <92817051...@news.remarQ.com>...
Stephen Bourgholtzer
warning:
For series 6V connection, the cable from the positive post of one
battery to the negative of the other MUST be fused at the POSITIVE
battery post if it is long enough to short to ground under any
circumstance. In other words, if the batteries are not adjacent.
For parallel 12V connection, the same thing applies in the same physical
circumstance, except BOTH ends connecting the positive terminals must be
fused.
There are alternative locations for these necessary fuses, but at least
one will be required for the series connection, and two for the
parallel. This is in addition to the existing fuses/circuit breakers
attached to the 12V positive output of the bank, which should remain
adjacent to the output terminal. Note that additional fuses are not
needed if the batteries are adjacent to each other.
Steve
Michael R. Daymude, Esq.
where the RV is used and/or stored all go into the equation. Heat is very hard
on batteries. Batteries which are not in storage compartments but "on the
tongue" are subject to theft. For many, the not so good RV/Marine "Deep Cycle"
batteries sold at Sams, etc., really do represent the best bang for your buck
especially if you factor in the convenience factor. -- Michael
Cheapie
Thanks for mentioning that, i'm putting the cable in a jacket as well,
but now will be adding fuses.
thanks,
cheapie