OT? - WOW!

[George Anthony]

The DOW is up nearly 250 points as I write this. We need Trump to give
one of those speeches once a week!

[vito]

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 10:20:30 -0600, George Anthony <gant...@gmail.org>
wrote:

>The DOW is up nearly 250 points as I write this. We need Trump to give
>one of those speeches once a week!

Impossible! Our "free press" reported that the Trump rally had ended
just yesterday. ;-)

[Jan Orme]

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 8:20:34 AM UTC-8, George Anthony wrote:
> The DOW is up nearly 250 points as I write this. We need Trump to give
> one of those speeches once a week!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MANY stocks are UP since the November election!

Including, for example, APPLE which is up 29.9%!!!!!!

Jan

[George Anthony]

Must be due to all the jobless snowflakes' parents and former Obama phone
owners buying new iPhones.

[Jan Orme]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rumors abound that Apple is going to build a Driverless Car! On another Facebook Thread about closed old military facilities there was a mention/rumor that the Old Concord, CA Naval Weapons Facility is rumored to be an Apple Car Test Facility.

That location has many square miles of ammo bunkers and roads.

Just sayin'....just like Lampson...don't know any real truth on this,... yet!
Only that I am interested in Apple because we have owned the stock for years.

Jan

[Bruce]

That's like Paul Krugman reporting (the day after the election) that the
stock market was crashing so bad that it might never recover.

--
Bruce

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from it's
government." -- Thomas Paine

[bill horne]

Does it seem odd to anyone else that we're working so hard on
driverless cars when we haven't even perfected driverless trains yet?
And they run on tracks.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

[film...@gmail.com]

I've wondered the same thing. As you've observed, they do run on tracks... It doesn't seem nearly as complicated as operating a vehicle in traffic? Of course, the Brotherhood of Railroad Workers still have Firemen on the job more than 50 years after there was any coal shoveling needed to run a locomotive...

Casey Jones

[Hank]

On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 2:15:30 AM UTC-5, film...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've wondered the same thing. As you've observed, they do run on tracks... It doesn't seem nearly as complicated as operating a vehicle in traffic? Of course, the Brotherhood of Railroad Workers still have Firemen on the job more than 50 years after there was any coal shoveling needed to run a locomotive...
>
> Casey Jones

I think it's funny that the title of fireman covers a lot of job descriptions. In the Navy the title fireman is anybody that is an E3 or below and also works in repair and maintenance of most, if not all, of the ships mechanical functions. I'm guessing that the RR fireman do about the same thing on a train.

Then there are the guys/gals who put out fires.

Hank <~~~~ bigly fireman

[vito]

The arguement is that extra eyes and backup make two in the cockpit
necessary - sort of like a copilot instead of fireman.

[George Anthony]

Bruce <bruce...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/1/2017 4:32 PM, vito wrote:
>> On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 10:20:30 -0600, George Anthony <gant...@gmail.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The DOW is up nearly 250 points as I write this. We need Trump to give
>>> one of those speeches once a week!
>>
>> Impossible! Our "free press" reported that the Trump rally had ended
>> just yesterday. ;-)
>
> That's like Paul Krugman reporting (the day after the election) that the
> stock market was crashing so bad that it might never recover.
>

Mark Cuban had a similar prediction. These leftists couldn't predict a
sunrise.

[George Anthony]

I don't see the attraction.

[George Anthony]

Yeah but those are fire persons. You should know that :-)



>
> Hank <~~~~ bigly fireman
>

[Owen McKenzie]

Think of all the jobs created for body shop men, auto parts store
clerks, insurance men, lawyers, etc.

--

Owen McKenzie

“Be kind to unkind people. They need it the most.”
― Ashleigh Brilliant

[Frank Howell]

Yup! Does this mean the RR employees have a strong union or there are
technical difficulties in implementing this upgrade?

--
Frank Howell

[Frank Howell]

Traffic officers, DMV offices, tow trucks, cab drivers, long haul truck
drivers.

--
Frank Howell

[bill horne]

Which will be neutralized by the jobs lost by taxi, Uber, and Domino
drivers.

[Bruce]

The funny thing about driver-less cars that have been tested so far is
that every accident one of them has been in was caused by the driver of
a car who didn't expect the driver-less car to drive as cautiously as it
did.

[bill horne]

stan....@hotmail.com wrote:

> The "experts" were saying " Get out of the Market, 'cause it's going to crash if
> Trump gets elected!!" I decided to stay in, and made $154,000 during the first
> month after he was elected!! Thank you Donald!! And my total stock market
> earnings for the past year, have come in at 36.5% !!
>
> Never had a year like this before! :-)

You just wait.

--
Nancy Prancy Pelosi

[kmiller]

Nice of Trump to cause Birch's total stock market earnings for the past year to be so high. If it weren't for Trump I suppose it would have been a
negative number? What a maroon.

"When Barack Obama was sworn in as the 44th president of the United States on January 20, 2009, the U.S. stock market was in free fall. The financial
crisis was in full swing following the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the Standard & Poor’s 500 index, a popular measure of the U.S. stock market,
closed at 805 points on Inauguration Day.

Eight years later, the S&P 500 index has risen to 2,274 points after one of the great bull runs in stock market history. With Obama as president, the
U.S. stock market, as measured by the S&P 500, returned 235%, or 16.4% annualized.

The Obama stock market trounced the stock market of his presidential predecessor, George W. Bush, which fell 30.6% from January 20, 2001 to January
20, 2009. Bill Clinton’s stock market, however, beat the Obama stock market, returning 264%, or 17.5% annualized."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2017/01/17/inside-the-obama-stock-markets-235-rise/#c60a61d16d1b

.

[Jan Orme]

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 9:13:30 PM UTC-8, bill horne wrote:

> bill
> Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your point is well constructed and taken, bill. But in the USA we are talking about a mind set that goes along with our vast terrain. Most folks and all here in this RV Group wanna roll ALL the roads to everywhere. NOT cooped up on a fricken' train! Especially on a daily basis.

Then we of course have the Governor Moonbeam attitude that wants to create a Billion Buck$ Bullet Train to a Dead End Nowhere and still be looking for other transportation at that last stop with a stupid look on yer mutt wondering how you get to where you REALLY want to go! And your net pocket ca$h of minus zero due to the wacko loser Governor and his Ass Clowns!

THE JERRY BROWN SYNDROME!!!

I'm still waiting for the CA CA Clowns To announce that they are not only VERY BROKE but also So Broke that they want a FEDERAL BAIL OUT!

Think about bailing out California! IF the USA wants to roll those dice I can see a real DRIVE TO GET THAT STATE OVERTAKEN BY FEDERAL DECREE!

Just take a real look at something like the Government of The City and County Of San Fransisco and their Polosi attitude.

SCARY X 100!

Jan

[Frank Howell]

IIRC California did as for a Federal loan under Obama of 15 billion and
even they rejected the application.

Also the latest is that they were asking for a grant from the Feds for
electrification of a 50-mile electrical power system that both the
Caltrain commuter rail system and the future high-speed rail system
would use from San Jose to San Francisco at a cost of 640 million but
have now been thwarted as the grant has been deferred.

California has one of the largest economies in the world, so why do all
the rest of the states have to chip in on California's gold plated choo
choo train? They shouldn't, California should tax their citizens for it,
for that you would need balls, so that leaves mooching and freeloading
off the rest of the states. Schmucks!

--
Frank Howell

[nothermark]

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 15:29:03 -0800 (PST), Jan Orme <JanO...@aol.com>

You can add in the fact that there is a fairly significant list of
states in similar condition to CA who will also want a bailout. The
few that are not will be very resentful at getting a bill for CA
stupidity.

[nothermark]

On Fri, 03 Mar 2017 10:06:53 -0800, Frank Howell <fpho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Reflect on the potential damage if something goes wrong with the
programming. You might also consider the availability of a work
around for a software or hardware failure.

[nothermark]

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 02:13:00 -0800 (PST), Hank <nineb...@aol.com>
wrote:

Back in the day the RR fireman manned the fire for the boiler. That
entailed shoveling a lot of coal by hand. It was also a training slot
for Engineer. As techmology replaced coal shoveling firemen became
more or less redundant. I think they are now phased out along with
brakemen. That can put the Engineer in the cab alone hoping nothing
happens because he has no help if it does.

[vito]

On Fri, 03 Mar 2017 17:50:32 -0800, Frank Howell <fpho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>California has one of the largest economies in the world, so why do all
>the rest of the states have to chip in on California's gold plated choo
>choo train? They shouldn't, California should tax their citizens for it,
>for that you would need balls, so that leaves mooching and freeloading
>off the rest of the states. Schmucks!

The reason Ca has such an economy is that the rest of the states chip
in.

[RMcBane]

Look at the damage that has already been caused by
human error. There was a passenger train
somewhere on an East coast run that went through a
curve at too high a speed causing the train to
derail. The train was equipped with sensors that
would have automatically slowed the train had the
track been equipped with the signaling devices.

Human error can be just as or more disastrous as a
hardware of software failure.

--
Richard McBane

[Frank Howell]

Don't forget the engineer who nodded off at the controls of a
Metro-North train just before it derailed in the Bronx in 2013, killing
four people and injuring more than 70 others, is suing the railroad for
$10 million.

--
Frank Howell

[nothermark]

On Sat, 04 Mar 2017 03:44:47 -0800, Frank Howell <fpho...@yahoo.com>

Didn't know about the suit but not surprised. Everybody sues the RR
and the RR usually loses. Run your car through the crossing gate with
the signals flashing and it's the train's fault for being there.

[nothermark]

Agreed. That was always my fathers argument for keeping two men in
the cab of the train the same way they keep two in the cab of a plane.
Unfortunately they call it featherbedding with the RR even though a
mile long train doing 60 MPH can do a lot of damage if the engineer
screws up and the conditions are right. The plane is smaller and
lighter but needs two for safety. ;-)

[Bob]

In article <a529f188-bd4f-423c...@googlegroups.com>,
film...@gmail.com says...

Not at Union Pacific they don't.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <lnakbcdg9mlop6ma0...@4ax.com>,
tr...@gnomex.cotse.net says...

Union Pacific has an Engineer and Conductor on their trains. Exceptions are
probably the rail yards. I don't know if UP does this, but some railroads have
locomotives run by remote control in the rail yards. The main job of the
Engineer is to drive the train. The Conductor has two main jobs; one is to
handle all the paperwork associated with the train, and the second is to watch
for railroad signals and signs along the route.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <o9c02o$il7$1...@dont-email.me>, gant...@gmail.net says...

In addition to having to pay people to be on the trains, there are duty time
rules. I'm afraid I've forgotten when the crew reaches their duty time limit,
whether the train stops wherever it is, or if they are allowed to proceed to
the nearest siding where the train stops. In either case, the railroads
contract with companies to drive replacement crews to the train and return the
timed out crew to the yard. This happens mostly when there is a mechanical
problem with a train, the track, or weather conditions.

If you eliminate the people, the trains would only need to stop when they
reach a yard where rail cars must be dropped or picked up, or when the
locomotives need fuel.

Bob

[Bruce]

I plan to jump on that bandwagon. Right now I am looking for a personal
injury lawyer to sue Amtrak for my broken leg.

[nothermark]

Theoretically they fall under the same rules as truck drivers. Time
up, shut down. About the time Dad retired the (1970's) Some of the
mergers had happened in the NE and routes started to change but train
crews were still running distances from the old steam days. I don't
know if that has changed since. The game at the time was a crew could
make a run then rest 8 hours and do it again. They got paid by the
trip or mile (same thing on a RR). He often worked 10 day weeks as
they never shut down so the work was there. The trip time had
decreased from around 6 hours to 4 with diesels so the RR used to dump
them on to a siding close to the end of the run and let them sit for a
few hours to slow down how many trips they could do.

I see an interesting conundrum. If you rely on people as a safety
backup for the automatic systems then you need the people to be able
to do the job. All the time pilots spend in the simulators comes to
mind. No one else seems to want to spend the money to cover that.

[Frank Howell]

Which you would think that they could be wireless and viewed from the
cab on a large display.

--
Frank Howell

[nothermark]

I think they are gone about everywhere.

[Major Oz]

On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:46:12 AM UTC-6, Frank Howell wrote:

> Bob wrote:

> > the second is to watch
> > for railroad signals and signs along the route.
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
> Which you would think that they could be wireless and viewed from the
> cab on a large display.

....with recognition software for cars, cattle (and cattle trucks), moose......and Little Nell.

[D-R]

Think of the Disney Monorails... run by college summer hires.. not
as complicated as rail but moves almost 100k people a day...

--

AJ - Enjoying Arizona

[nothermark]

On Sun, 5 Mar 2017 08:51:52 -0800, Bruce <bruce...@gmail.com>
wrote:

How did you break your leg?

[Bruce]

Back in January, on one of our rare snowy days, I slipped on the ice in
their parking lot. Spiral fracture of the left tibia. Surgery, metal
plate, and several screws to put it together again. No use for 6 weeks
so far, with at least 6 more before the next dr visit. I figure a
lawyer can tell me if Amtrak has any culpability -- they should have
cleared their parking lot of the ice and snow.

[film...@gmail.com]

I hope you get a nice liberal judge to reward you for slipping on that icy parking lot... HawHawHaw!

Melvin Belli

[nothermark]

On Sun, 05 Mar 2017 09:46:23 -0800, Frank Howell <fpho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

And would require replacing a huge installed base of a very robust
signal system. That would have to be done by folks complaining about
not making enough money to keep operating. After all, cost is why
they never implemented the warning and auto shutdown system they are
supposed to have in place for going into some places.

[nothermark]

On Sun, 5 Mar 2017 15:44:40 -0800, Bruce <bruce...@gmail.com>

And you should have been personally responsible for being careful when
you were walking there. But that would usually be your line. ;-)

I knew about the break but did not know how you did it. Sounds nasty.
Sorry it happened. It will be interesting to see what a lawyer tells
you.

[Bruce]

I'm hoping for a sleazy enough lawyer that Amtrak settles without ever
seeing a courtroom. :-)

[Bruce]

Shit happens -- if I can profit from it, I would be happy with that.

The worst a lawyer can say is that there is no case. I'm no worse off
then than I am now.

[Bruce]

All in all, I see myself as blessed. In my whole life, I have never
been sick enough to spend a night in a hospital (perhaps when I was too
young to remember), and have only been injured badly enough to be
hospitalized on two occasions -- and both of those injuries can be seen
on one xray of the left tibia. At my age, that means I have been very
lucky.

[George Anthony]

I am sure you can find one out of the thousands of ambulance chasers to
take your case.

[George Anthony]

Myself as well. My first broken bones (yes bones) and first ambulance ride
didn't happen until after my 68th birthday. I did have my tonsils removed
at 7, though.

[Bruce]

Now that you mention it, I had my tonsils out too -- age 5 or 6. But, I
have to take my parent's word for that, I don't remember it.

[Hank]

I doubt he can find a lawyer unless he pays for one. Even then he probably won't see any money. Like you basically said, he knew there was snow and he is old enough to know that snow can be hazardous. But then again, it's a different world in Oregon.

I say this because my MIL slipped in a grocery store and broke both her femurs. It was raining and there was water on the tile floor inside the entrance. She couldn't find a lawyer to take her case on a contingency basis and she couldn't afford to hire one.

Hank

[nothermark]

On Sun, 5 Mar 2017 18:21:02 -0800, Bruce <bruce...@gmail.com>

Agreed. In a world of lawsuit lottery it' silly not to check your
ticket to see if you won. ;-)

[nothermark]

Tonsils around 5 then safe until both hips at 67. Both knees at 70,
and a kidney stone in between. Something about payback???

;-)

[nothermark]

On Mon, 6 Mar 2017 01:10:09 -0800 (PST), Hank <nineb...@aol.com>
wrote:

AFAIK any lawyer will give you around a half hour free to see if you
have a case. If they don't think it is worth doing on contingency it
probably is not worth doing. Even on contingency they sometimes lose.
Given that and what I said I elsewhere I don't see any reason not to
ask or take the money if you win. I do see a lot of reasons why
somebody should lose. I also see a stories of places that
automatically capitulate when sued. The whole thing comes down to
where I am not as trusting of the system as it wants me to be.

[Bruce]

And it would against Amtrak, so the government would pay. Double
victory. ;-)

[Hank]

It could happen. I hired a lawyer to sue the city I worked for. Basically they promoted me illegally, so another guy hired a lawyer to correct it. They then demoted me and in the process I missed taking the test that they give every 2 years. My lawyer filed a civil suit but we lost. The city felt a moral obligation and offered me a settlement, which I took. It actually came out better for me because I got a lump sum which allowed me to buy the land on which I built my last house. Lawyer got a third minus the retainer I originally paid.

Hank

[Bob]

In article <58bc4ee3$0$55244$b1db1813$15bd...@news.astraweb.com>,
fpho...@yahoo.com says...

You would think so, wouldn't you.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <iebobctiolesbnhv2...@4ax.com>, nothe...@not.here
says...

I know my friend spent time in a locomotive simulator during his training, but
I don't know if they have recurrent simulator training like airline pilots.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <fmkobcp5qlafbvk0r...@4ax.com>, nothe...@not.here
says...

I suspect you are correct, but I only know about UP.

Bob

[Bob]

In article <bkbpbcpalmd7hicfo...@4ax.com>, nothe...@not.here
says...

There is already power to run the signals, why not just add transmitters?
I realize it doesn't cover the case of non-electrical signals, but it would be
a good start.

Bob

[nothermark]

I'm not saying it can't be done fairly easily. I am saying there
would be an issue over who paid for it.

FWIW I think that there will also be a generation of two of resistance
to not having a live potential driver in case of a control failure.
Yard work is a controlled access environment. Over the road is a
different issue. I'm waiting to see how autonomous vehicles make out.
;-)

[vito]

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 22:40:23 -0500, nothermark <nothe...@not.here>
wrote:

That's the problem for most improvements - who pays for them? A
middle manager of a division is loth to bust his budget and maybe risk
a promotion to pass a more efficient & profitable division on to the
competator who follows him. It's not just railroads.