Info on K & M Resorts in WA
whidbeydave
few questions.1) annual dues cost, 2) transfer fee amount, 3) reasonable
price to pay, 4) is it transferable again?
TIA
whidbeydave
altar nospam
Why not ask K&M? We live not far from 2 of them, I'm not all that
impressed.
http://tinyurl.com/37d4hd is one on Ebay with no takers so far.
If you are paying more than $800-1000 on the used market, you would
be better off paying the same for a resale 1000trails. Which would
allow you to use RPI to access the same K&N resorts, plus the 59 of
TT.
If you are not familiar with these types of memberships, don't do
anything until you research the heck out of them. They are not for
everyone. For the vast majority they do NOT save money, they cost
money.
I have a TT membership ONLY because I treat it like a lake cabin, but
without the work of maintaining it. But it does COST money, not save
it.
Tom
Ralph E Lindberg
whidbeydave <whidb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
1) it depends 2) it depends 3) it depends 4) it depends.... Clear
enough? There are many types of levels of membership and which depends
on the answers you get.
Now I've been a member for almost 15 years (I won my membership in a
drawing). Back then they had two parks (Elma and Ocean Mists). Today,
what is it..Eight? They are well run (fiscally), they have not gone
under, closed parks, re-organized, etc (unlike others I could name, like
1000 trails).
Are they for everyone, nope, not even close. But they might be
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
Ralph E Lindberg
al...@nospam.net wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 07:25:44 -0800, Ralph E Lindberg
> <n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
>
> >They are well run (fiscally), they have not gone
> >under, closed parks, re-organized, etc (unlike others I could name, like
> >1000 trails).
>
> TT are known to be one of the most stable in the business. You have
> mischaracterized them.
>
> Tom
Can you explain the three "former" TT campgrounds withing 100 miles of
me? They have undergone Chapter 11 bankruptcy at least once (I think it
was actually twice).
altar nospam
<n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
>In article <q889j31l703f275du...@4ax.com>,
> al...@nospam.net wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 07:25:44 -0800, Ralph E Lindberg
>> <n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
>>
>> >They are well run (fiscally), they have not gone
>> >under, closed parks, re-organized, etc (unlike others I could name, like
>> >1000 trails).
>>
>> TT are known to be one of the most stable in the business. You have
>> mischaracterized them.
>>
>> Tom
>
>Can you explain the three "former" TT campgrounds withing 100 miles of
>me? They have undergone Chapter 11 bankruptcy at least once (I think it
>was actually twice).
Could you name them? I will research it. Since TT owns all of their
preserves, (they lease the ground) one cannot simply go bankrupt by
itself. The entire company would have to. So I believe your statement
to be incorrect.
Tom
Technobarbarian
<al...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:q889j31l703f275du...@4ax.com...
>>under, closed parks, re-organized, etc (unlike others I could name, like
>>1000 trails).
>
> mischaracterized them.
LOL, you must be working with an odd definition of "stable". Their
financial history is anything but stable:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
http://www.natlassoc.org/news/ns5605.htm
June 5, 2005
SAD NEWS ABOUT THE "NEW" THOUSAND TRAILS
by Janet R. Wilder
"About a year ago, Thousand Trails, a publicly traded corporation, was sold
to Kohlberg & Company, an investment group, who purchased up all of the
outstanding publicly traded stock and made it a privately held company.
Within a few months of their purchasing Thousand Trails (Thousand Trails,
NACO, Leisure Time Resorts and RPI), Kohlberg sold all of the land to what
is now called Equity LifeStyle Properties Inc, the company that owns, among
other things, the Encore RV parks. Some undeveloped land was irrevocably
sold but the campgrounds were leased-back by Kohlberg for a 15 year term.
The lease can be renewed for two additional 5 year periods at Kohlberg's
option. At the end of the lease Equity LifeStyle will possess the physical
property. Nothing has been shared with the membership as to what happens to
their ability to camp, transfer their memberships or will it to their
children at that time.
[snip]
By its own business plan, Kohlberg's Thousand Trails will not last fifteen
years, yet it continues to aggressively market the system to new members
with no explanation as to what will happen to their membership at that time.
It is strongly suggested that potential members think carefully about
purchasing a membership that is supposed to last longer than the company
selling it will own the property. When the land is gone, most members
looking to "protect their investment" will be vulnerable to whatever the
next owner of the membership roster wants to sell them.
Janet Wilder has been a member of Thousand Trails since 1990 and is NAM's
advisor for Thousand Trails related questions."
Janet's full article is well worth the read for anyone considering
buying a TT membership. For more information on this organization:
http://www.natlassoc.com/
TB
Technobarbarian
"Technobarbarian" <Technobarbar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:473680a6$0$31650$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
> <al...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:q889j31l703f275du...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 07:25:44 -0800, Ralph E Lindberg
>> <n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
>>
>>>They are well run (fiscally), they have not gone
>>>under, closed parks, re-organized, etc (unlike others I could name, like
>>>1000 trails).
>>
>> TT are known to be one of the most stable in the business. You have
>> mischaracterized them.
>
> LOL, you must be working with an odd definition of "stable". Their
> financial history is anything but stable:
>
> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
>
> http://www.natlassoc.org/news/ns5605.htm
Out of curiosity I did a bit more digging on this story. As those who
have been following the story more closely than me already know, after
Kohlberg and Co. sold the Thousand Trails property to the real estate
investment trust, Equity LifeStyle Properties Inc., they sold the rest of
the business to a new company called Privileged Access which has an
interesting relationship with ELP.
http://www.woodalls.biz/output.cfm?id=1094779
McAdams' New Company Buys Thousand Trails
May 1, 2006
Woodalls.biz
"Privileged Access, a private company based in Frisco, Texas, has acquired
Thousand Trails as the first of a series of acquisitions designed to
consolidate and transform the membership campground business.
"I hope this is the first of many acquisitions," said Joe McAdams, the
President and CEO of Frisco, Texas-based Privileged Access, which he founded
in October after leaving the board of directors of Equity LifeStyle
Properties, a Chicago-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) that owns or
co-owns 285 U.S. campgrounds, RV resorts and manufactured home communities,
including 59 Thousand Trails parks with more than 17,000 sites.
While ELS retains ownership of Thousand Trails' campgrounds, McAdams now
owns the Thousand Trails membership business, which had been owned and
operated by Kohlberg & Co., a New York-based private equity firm, for the
past three years.
McAdams, ex-CEO of Ventura, Calif.-based Affinity Group Inc. (AGI), said he
plans to grow Thousand Trails by nearly doubling the number of parks in the
Thousand Trails network and by making the membership program much more
flexible than it had been in the past.
"We're eventually going to offer all types of accommodations, from bare
camping sites all the way to supersites and cabins," McAdams said. "There
will be a variety of products and they'll be based on customer needs rather
than one-size-fits-all, which frankly had been the Thousand Trails modus
operandi." "
[snip]
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/071109/els10-q.html
Form 10-Q for EQUITY LIFESTYLE PROPERTIES INC
9-Nov-2007
Quarterly Report
[snip]
"Privileged Access
Privileged Access is leasing sites at certain of our Properties for the
purpose of offering flexible use products. These products may include the
sale of timeshare or fractional interests in resort homes or cottages and
membership and vacation-club products. Leasing our sites to Privileged
Access allows us to participate in these products and activities while
achieving long-term rental of our sites. We expect to lease additional sites
to Privileged Access for this purpose at other Properties in the future.
As of September 30, 2007, we are leasing approximately 24,100 sites at 81
membership campground resort Properties to Privileged Access or its
subsidiaries. The Properties being leased are as follows:
. Thousand Trails Portfolio - This portfolio contains 59 Properties and
18,535 sites, which were leased to Privileged Access on April 14, 2006 for
approximately 14 years. The current annual lease payment is approximately
$17.9 million and is subject to annual CPI escalations.
. Mid-Atlantic Portfolio - This portfolio contains seven Properties and
1,594 sites, which were leased to Privileged Access on April 25, 2006. The
current lease expires January 31, 2008 and we anticipate extending the lease
on a short-term basis. The current annual lease payment is approximately
$0.7 million.
. Outdoor World Portfolio - This portfolio contains 15 Properties and 3,962
sites, which were leased to Privileged Access on December 15, 2006. This
lease was renewed on June 1, 2007, and was extended until January 15, 2020
to be co-terminus with the lease for the Thousand Trails portfolio. The
annual lease payment was increased to $2.5 million from $1.0 million. The
lease now allows Privileged Access to offer a limited number of upgraded
memberships to existing Thousand Trails members, which would allow access to
the 15 Outdoor World resorts.
We expect to continue this type of leasing activity with Privileged Access,
as well as exploring other products and services. One example of such a
lease is a one-year lease with Privileged Access for 130 sites at Tropical
Palms, a Property located near Orlando, Florida, for an annual rate of
approximately $1.3 million. Privileged Access intends to sell fractional
interests in some resort homes at this Property.
On April 14, 2006, we loaned Privileged Access approximately $12.3 million
at a per annum interest rate of prime plus 1.5%, maturing in one year and
secured by Thousand Trails membership sales contract receivables. During the
nine months ending September 30, 2007, we received principal repayments of
$12.3 million. In connection with the payoffs, Privileged Access obtained a
$10.0 million loan from a bank and the Company guaranteed $2.5 million of
this loan. See Note 10 - Commitments and Contingencies for further
discussion of this guarantee. Critical Accounting Policies and Estimates
Refer to the 2006 Form 10-K for a discussion of our critical accounting
policies, which includes impairment of real estate assets and investments,
investments in unconsolidated joint ventures, and accounting for stock
compensation. During the nine months ended September 30, 2007, there were no
changes to these policies."
[snip]
In addition to Thousand Trails and BullElk membership programs
Privileged Access is also selling other membership programs and "vacation
ownership": http://privilegedaccessusa.com/index.html
Thousand Trails itself doesn't seem to be talking about any of this:
http://www.1000trails.com/index.php In fact one of the interesting things
here is that there's a lot of stuff they aren't talking about unless you
subject yourself to a high pressure sales person. Their website doesn't say
anything about the various membership options, contracts and prices.
TB
Hugh
> "Technobarbarian" <Technobarbar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:473680a6$0$31650$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>><al...@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>news:q889j31l703f275du...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 07:25:44 -0800, Ralph E Lindberg
>>><n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>They are well run (fiscally), they have not gone
>>>>under, closed parks, re-organized, etc (unlike others I could name, like
>>>>1000 trails).
>>>
>>>TT are known to be one of the most stable in the business. You have
>>>mischaracterized them.
>>
>> LOL, you must be working with an odd definition of "stable". Their
>>financial history is anything but stable:
>>
>>http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
>>
>>http://www.natlassoc.org/news/ns5605.htm
>
>
> Out of curiosity I did a bit more digging on this story. As those who
> have been following the story more closely than me already know, after
> Kohlberg and Co. sold the Thousand Trails property to the real estate
> investment trust, Equity LifeStyle Properties Inc., they sold the rest of
> the business to a new company called Privileged Access which has an
> interesting relationship with ELP.
snipped good information
>
> TB
I figured most of this was coming when ELS started spinning off high
corporate officers to pursue other ventures connected to the parent
company. I got interested when ELS got an interest in Clerbrook Golf and
RV Resort. They are a bad ass company and do not have the interests of
typical rv'rs at heart.
Hugh
altar nospam
>I figured most of this was coming when ELS started spinning off high
>corporate officers to pursue other ventures connected to the parent
>company. I got interested when ELS got an interest in Clerbrook Golf and
>RV Resort. They are a bad ass company and do not have the interests of
>typical rv'rs at heart.
>Hugh
As a member of TT, I have done plenty of research regards TT. I have
studied the history, and read the contracts by the parties involved. I
am WELL aware of the ELS/TT arrangement. The buying and selling of
companies goes on every day in this country. Nothing unusual there. TT
did have a sag in their fortunes a few years ago, that is old news. It
has long since been turning around, with improvements, etc. being made
to the facilities.
IOW, they have slight dips and rises as every company does.
Your opinion that ELS is a "bad ass company" is just that. Your
opinion. Not supported factually.
Now for a rude awakening. NO company has their customer's interest at
heart. None. They have their PROFIT at heart, first and foremost.
Welcome to capitalism. That's the way it is supposed to work.
Many companies have figured out that taking care of their customers
nets profit. That's why they take care of them.
Profit is not a dirty word. It is the engine that makes this economy
spin.
If something isn't making a profit, then it is either a Religious
institution, Government, or leeches. In many cases combinations of the
above.
Tom
Ralph E Lindberg
altar nospam <al...@nospam.net> wrote:
Believe all you want, your still wrong, here
(http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=thou
sand+trails+road&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.371738,58.623047&ie=UTF8&
z=15&iwloc=addr&om=1) is the link to one that simply doesn't exist any
more, it's just a locked gate and land (locals tell me that it's now a
families private compound). Then there is the one on US101 near Sequim
and the one on US12 near Randle. Both (at one time) were TT, but now
neither are.
Hugh
snipped
> Your opinion that ELS is a "bad ass company" is just that. Your
> opinion. Not supported factually.
>
> Tom
No, that's your opinion. ELS has a long history of screwing their
customer base. They have successfully taken on local governments that
had "rent controls" in place to protect folks in rental parks. They have
a long history of buying up parks and dissing the inhabitants.
Their record in Florida is not very good. They bought Clerbrook and
promptly raised rates to higher than area parks charge, this is common
with them. They are selling sub standard park models for inflated
prices, again common with them.
Something else that is strange is their apparent liking to pay far more
for a resort than it reasonably should bring. The problem with this is,
if they decide to sell, the property will have an unreasonable debt
attached to it.
Profit is not a "dirty" word, unless it means the public is getting
screwed. Frankly, I don't care if you don't take my opinion as
reasonable, I know the facts. I've followed their progress from when
they were MHC. They took over Encore Parks and they have gone downhill
as a result.
Hugh
Technobarbarian
"Hugh" <hbda...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:99ydnXJL9Ik5PqXa...@pghconnect.com...
> altar nospam wrote:
> snipped
>> Your opinion that ELS is a "bad ass company" is just that. Your
>> opinion. Not supported factually.
> snipped
>>
>> Tom
>
> No, that's your opinion. ELS has a long history of screwing their customer
> base. They have successfully taken on local governments that had "rent
> controls" in place to protect folks in rental parks.
They sometimes lose these battles.
http://www.newtimes-slo.com/index.php?p=showarticle&id=2786
They have
> a long history of buying up parks and dissing the inhabitants.
>
> Their record in Florida is not very good. They bought Clerbrook and
> promptly raised rates to higher than area parks charge, this is common
> with them.
??? The only problem with that is if the raised rates caused profits to
go down. Is the business in trouble?
>They are selling sub standard park models for inflated prices, again common
>with them.
Do they do this by holding a gun to the buyers' heads?
>
> Something else that is strange is their apparent liking to pay far more
> for a resort than it reasonably should bring. The problem with this is, if
> they decide to sell, the property will have an unreasonable debt attached
> to it.
>
> Profit is not a "dirty" word, unless it means the public is getting
> screwed. Frankly, I don't care if you don't take my opinion as reasonable,
> I know the facts. I've followed their progress from when they were MHC.
> They took over Encore Parks and they have gone downhill as a result.
I did yet more digging on this because it's an interesting story. One
of the more interesting things here is that the guy who bought the Thousand
Trails property didn't buy TT itself even though he could have easily
afforded it. I suspect that it didn't meet his investment criteria. What's
left after the Kohlberg & Co. transactions is a paper creation with a lease
that expires in 2020. Personally I don't have much use for companies that
require high pressure sales people to survive.
Some interesting Equity Lifestyle Properties inc. links:
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1809
Technobarbarian
> Some interesting Equity Lifestyle Properties inc. links:
>
> http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1809
This post got away from me while I was still working on links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Zell
http://www.forbes.com/finance/2006/11/09/samuel-zell-investments-pf_ii_cz_ts_1109zell.html
http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/09/samuel-zell-investments-pf_ii_cz_ts_1109zell_slide.html
TB
Bruce S
> snipped
>> Your opinion that ELS is a "bad ass company" is just that. Your
>> opinion. Not supported factually.
> snipped
>>
>> Tom
>
> No, that's your opinion. ELS has a long history of screwing their customer
> base. They have successfully taken on local governments that had "rent
> controls" in place to protect folks in rental parks.
The should always fight rent control, and they should always win. Rent
control will result in a bypassing of market forces, which will lead to
higher prices in the end. Businesses will find a way of getting around
price controls, usually by shutting down the controlled business and
replacing it with one that is not controlled. That in turn results in a
reduction in competition, and an increase in prices. Anyone who fights
price controls is doing the right thing.
> Their record in Florida is not very good. They bought Clerbrook and
> promptly raised rates to higher than area parks charge, this is common
> with them. They are selling sub standard park models for inflated prices,
> again common with them.
If their prices really are inflated above market value, they will not stay
in business very long. People will seek an appropriate value, and that is
never a price that is above market rate. BTW, just who is forcing the
consumers to pay rates above what is appropriate?
> Something else that is strange is their apparent liking to pay far more
> for a resort than it reasonably should bring. The problem with this is, if
> they decide to sell, the property will have an unreasonable debt attached
> to it.
If the debt really is unreasonable, no one will buy the property when it is
up for sale. Either the debt is reasonable, or it will not sell. Just
because the debt is high, does not mean it is unreasonable.
> Profit is not a "dirty" word, unless it means the public is getting
> screwed.
How is the public getting screwed? No one can charge an excessive price for
long, unless they have a monopoly, and they don't.
> Frankly, I don't care if you don't take my opinion as reasonable, I know
> the facts.
Of course, you won't listen to anyone else, you made up your mind, and
nothing, especially the facts, will change that. Why would you behave any
differently in this discussion than in any other?
Now, I don't have a dong in this fight. I don't have a membership, and
have no interest in one, but I see no facts in your argument, only
unsupported opinions.
Bruce
Hugh
snipped
> I did yet more digging on this because it's an interesting story. One
> of the more interesting things here is that the guy who bought the Thousand
> Trails property didn't buy TT itself even though he could have easily
> afforded it. I suspect that it didn't meet his investment criteria. What's
> left after the Kohlberg & Co. transactions is a paper creation with a lease
> that expires in 2020. Personally I don't have much use for companies that
> require high pressure sales people to survive.
>
> Some interesting Equity Lifestyle Properties inc. links:
>
> http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1809
>
>
to discover the actual facts of MHC's lineage. I was looking at their
financial statements instead. Mostly because I knew that MHC had taken a
mezzanine investment in Clerbrook's parent company. Thanks for the links.
Hugh
Ralph E Lindberg
al...@nospam.net wrote:
...
> >Believe all you want, your still wrong, here
> >(http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=thou
> >sand+trails+road&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.371738,58.623047&ie=UTF8&
> >z=15&iwloc=addr&om=1) is the link to one that simply doesn't exist any
> >more, it's just a locked gate and land (locals tell me that it's now a
> >families private compound). Then there is the one on US101 near Sequim
> >and the one on US12 near Randle. Both (at one time) were TT, but now
> >neither are.
>
> I was unable to confirm that there was a campground there (Google),
> however, I do know that there were a few low use TT's that were closed
> in that neck of the woods (not bankrupt, just closed or sold). The
> contracts with TT requires that they provide another park within
> reasonable distance should they have to close one. With their
> acquisition a while back of Leisure Time Resorts, those commitments
> were fulfilled.
>
> Their Cascade park was taken by Eminent Domain last fall, and they did
> buy a replacement park (Lake Easton Resort) within just a few miles
> within the last month, thereby meeting their contractual obligation.
>
> No TT park has ever filed bankruptcy while part of TT. They can't. It
> would be like a branch of Bank of America filing bankruptcy on it's
> own.
>
> Tom
Did you even bother to look at the ROAD NAME? Sigh.... Trust me I've
been there (it was a terrible location for a park, unless you want
privacy). As for bankruptcy, it was the entire -SYSTEM- (as I'm certain
you well know, and refuse to acknowledge) that went Chapter 11
Hugh
snipped
> If their prices really are inflated above market value, they will not stay
> in business very long. People will seek an appropriate value, and that is
> never a price that is above market rate. BTW, just who is forcing the
> consumers to pay rates above what is appropriate?
>
> Bruce
I'll respond to this in your post. I guess you miss the point Bruce. The
point is the company buys the park and then ups the rent (lease). The
renter is FORCED to pay the rent or lose his lease. The cost to move a
park model or worse, a manufactured home, is prohibitive. If you can't
see this I'll understand as it shows how you consider your fellow man.
Hugh
Bruce S
If you had included the part I responded to, you might have had just a bit
more clarity.
"They are selling sub standard park models for inflated prices, again common
with them."
You will note that I was responding to the selling of RVs for inflated
prices, making your entire response meaningless. On the other hand, once
they buy a park, it is their right to charge whatever they can get for the
spaces. People can move - park models are not really that expensive to
move. And as far as manufactured homes, I owned a double wide for several
years. If the rate has been raised, I would have moved - or sold it. And
BTW, how many Thousand Trails parks have spaces for manufactured homes?
Bruce
Janet Wilder
> BTW, how many Thousand Trails parks have spaces for manufactured homes?
Actually, that is exactly the trend they are taking. They are usurping
more and more RV spaces for "Get Away" rental cabins which are
manufactured homes. They are also adding more rental spaces with park
models on them.
The Palm Springs property has had manufactured homes (park models) at
the back for quite a few years now. The large property on Lake Conroe in
Texas has a whole section being developed by ELS and many have already
been sold. These ae all manufactured homes. Buying one of these
properties entitles the owner to membership in TTN, IIRC.
ELS's corporate philosophy is selling lots for manufactured homes. This
guarantees them income. Yearly rentals of RV spaces does not. People get
old or sick and don't come back. People who own lots have to pay the
rent no matter what their traveling circumstances are or they sell to
new owners. This keeps the revenue stream active all year long with no
seasonal drops in activity.
ELS is pretty savvy. They know that there is more money to be gained
from folks who travel for long seasons than there is in overnighters.
One of the problems we had with TTN before we got rid of it was the fact
that many of the best sites were co-opted for rentals and seasonal
"on-site" leases where members can leave their rigs for the whole
season. Less and less was available for the traveling membership.
I spoke to one of the sales people from the TTN side of the business
(TTN owns 2 properties and the membership list. They lease the rest of
their properties from ELS)and was told that the company sees more of a
future and a profit in these leases. Evidently, the smallest percentage
of their membership and revenue is from the traveling RVer, so these
folks are on the bottom of the priority list.
Things change and so do business plans. One can't compare today's TTN
with the past ownerships and business practices.
JMTCW
--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life
Hugh
Have it your way Bruce but, this is what I wrote;
"Their record in Florida is not very good. They bought Clerbrook and
promptly raised rates to higher than area parks charge, this is common
with them. They are selling sub standard park models for inflated
prices, again common with them."
And your response;
"If their prices really are inflated above market value, they will not
stay in business very long. People will seek an appropriate value, and
that is never a price that is above market rate. BTW, just who is
forcing the consumers to pay rates above what is appropriate?"
It's pretty obvious that I was writing about both rates and units.
Lon VanOstran
> I'll respond to this in your post. I guess you miss the point Bruce. The
> point is the company buys the park and then ups the rent (lease). The
> renter is FORCED to pay the rent or lose his lease. The cost to move a
> park model or worse, a manufactured home, is prohibitive. If you can't
> see this I'll understand as it shows how you consider your fellow man.
> Hugh
Some residents have enough sense to buy the park when it's for sale.
Others sit and bitch.
Lon
LK
>On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:28:38 -0800, Ralph E Lindberg
><n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
>
snip
>>Did you even bother to look at the ROAD NAME? Sigh.... Trust me I've
>>been there (it was a terrible location for a park, unless you want
>>privacy).
>
>I never said it wasn't there, only that I could find no evidence of
>same on google. I took you at your word that it indeed was there.
>
>>As for bankruptcy, it was the entire -SYSTEM- (as I'm certain
>>you well know, and refuse to acknowledge) that went Chapter 11.
>
>Nope. Thousand Trails NEVER went bankrupt. Ever.
>
>In 1990, a Southmark subsidiary that owned 68.8 percent of Thousand
>Trails was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization.
>TT itself did not go bankrupt. Very important difference.
>
>Joe Mcadams and his company Privileged Access bought the company a
>year and a half ago, and have pumped millions into the system in
>upgrades, and are continuing to do so. I have seen that at every park
>we have been to.
>And BTW, they own RPI, among other things.
>
>http://www.woodalls.biz/output.cfm?id=1094779
>
>is an article detailing Joe acquisition.
>
>Tom
Equiant Finance bought all the contracts. I know because that's who I pay
my dues to now. They just sent their dues notice for 2008. I called them
and TT does not handle any of the contract payments at all now. Who do you
pay your annual dues to?
LK
Hugh
The Brennan Beach RV Park ELS bought in New York went for $29,000,000.
Figuring there were probably about 300 occupied sites that's around
$100,000 for a tiny piece of land. Not a good investment. The sites
rented for around $1,500/year before the sale. Don't know what they are now.
Hugh
Hugh
Lon VanOstran
The value of the land is the value of the land. You just explained why
rates are going up. Why bitch when the market is setting these prices?
If buying the park costs more than you think the sites are worth, then
you should (and did) look elsewhere. If each site is worth $100,000 on
the open market, then rent SHOULD be high. A $100,000 piece of property
must bring in $7,000 per year, just to service the money invested in it.
Much more than that before _I_ would invest my money in it. 7% is shit
for a return, IMHO.
Lon
LK
>On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:15:38 -0800, LK <lindak...@nomail.com>
>TT just contracted with Equiant to do the collections, as I understand
>it. Which I think is a good thing, 'cause the TT home office is manned
>by basic idiots. Any dispute still has to be dealt with TT. Ask me how
>I know.
>
>Better yet, look at the ridiculous tax on your dues statement. (I'm
>assuming you are in Washington.) Since the dues aren't due for quite a
>while, I'd wait until that tax matter is cleared up. There may very
>well be a class action in that regard. Several of us on the East side
>are challenging that, along with many westsiders.
>
>First we disagree that ANY tax is due. It never has been. Second, if
>there is, it shouldn't be 11%. None of our tax rates on the east side
>are that high.
>
>They are attempting to charge the hotel/motel tax that they charge in
>King county. We contend that they cannot charge hotel/motel tax on RV
>spots that may or may not be occupied by us.
>
>That's the short version.
>
>Tom
Yes. I sure did notice the tax due. However, this is only our second year
of having to pay dues, so I'm not experienced in obvious changes. Thanks
for that info.
I do not understand at all why they can't do their own bookkeeping. That
just slays me. Why is everyone subject to their problems collecting money?
Why don't they just do as they did before and send the dues notices and let
us pay them directly like we did last year?
I believe I'm going to let my membership go for cost, period. In the
Spring when people are researching for a membership, I'll let them have it
for what I owe and thank my lucky stars I'm out of that TT business
altogether. I've decided they're not everything they're cracked up to be.
JMO, of course, but don't like changing boats in the middle of the stream
and my contractual payments get paid every month on the first day - on the
button with no faults. Their changing to *new* ideas are not that
impressive.
LK
Bruce S
"Hugh" <hbda...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> The Brennan Beach RV Park ELS bought in New York went for $29,000,000.
> Figuring there were probably about 300 occupied sites that's around
> $100,000 for a tiny piece of land. Not a good investment. The sites rented
> for around $1,500/year before the sale. Don't know what they are now.
> Hugh
If you don't know what they rent for now, you also don't know that the new
price (if there is one) is excessive.
And $1500 per year was unusually cheap - I am currently paying a rate that
is about 3 times that, and my mobile home was on a space that was almost 5
times that.
Bruce
Joe
<snipped>
>
> Now, I don't have a dong in this fight. I don't have a membership, and
> have no interest in one, but I see no facts in your argument, only
> unsupported opinions.
>
> Bruce
You don't have a *what* in this fight. <G>
Joe
Hugh
Whatever.
Hugh
Hugh
Do you live in New York State? There are several nice parks that charge
in that same range for 6/6. I'm not going to argue with you guys as you
already know everything there is to know and what you don't know isn't
worth knowing.
Hugh
Bruce S
"Joe" <joeho...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1195063896....@v65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
LOL - Thanks for pointing that out - seeing my own typos always gives me a
good laugh. I would never have seen it on my own, and the spell checker had
no problem with it. Now I don't know whether to blame the bad keyboard,
or the fat fingers.
Bruce
Bruce S
"Hugh" <hbda...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Lon VanOstran wrote:
>>
>> The value of the land is the value of the land. You just explained why
>> rates are going up. Why bitch when the market is setting these prices?
>> If buying the park costs more than you think the sites are worth, then
>> you should (and did) look elsewhere. If each site is worth $100,000 on
>> the open market, then rent SHOULD be high. A $100,000 piece of property
>> must bring in $7,000 per year, just to service the money invested in it.
>> Much more than that before _I_ would invest my money in it. 7% is shit
>> for a return, IMHO.
>>
>> Lon
>
> Whatever.
> Hugh
Hugh remains a Statist. He thinks the government has the authority to
deprive businesses of profit.
Bruce
Hunter
Bruce" wrote:
> Now, I don't have a dong in this fight. >
Jeez..........
Hunter
Lone Haranguer
Now, now.
The unit of Vietnamese currency is the Dong.
USDVND=X 1 Nov 14 16,060 16,060
You get a lot of Dongs for a buck too. :)
LZ
Bruce S
"Lone Haranguer" <lin...@hughes.net> wrote in message
news:5q1in0F...@mid.individual.net...
I wish I had known that - I could have avoided admitting to a typo. <g>
Bruce
Hugh
Whatever.
Hugh