Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura soprano in the history of opera
Tommie
hands down. Can you name one bad recording? Her portrayals of both mature
and youthful roles have always been right on. Her skill for writing
ornamentation is beyond compare when it comes to Handel and Mozart. She has
the best trills in all opera. Her emotional singing can at times be
overwhelming.
Matthew B. Tepper
what I'm pondering as follows:
>
> Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of
>opera, hands down.
And I am the King of Sweden.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
dtritter
playing. i have the radio and television tapes that prove it.
dft
William Fi
Andy the Gypsy
>
> Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of opera,
> and youthful roles have always been right on. Her skill for writing
> ornamentation is beyond compare when it comes to Handel and Mozart. She has
> the best trills in all opera. Her emotional singing can at times be
> overwhelming.
Battle the coloratura???
Has she ever sung Lucia, Queen of the Night, Lakme, Olympia, Amina,
Elvira and other extremely difficult coloratura rolse? Of course she
succeeded as Zerbinetta, but if you think her as coloratura by this
role, then Hilde Gueden also could be called a coloratura soprano. (She
was a successful Zerbinetta at Salzburg in 1954.) Battle is an
outstanding soubrette (leggiero) soprano, but not a coloratura soprano.
Eric D. Peterson
Tommie wrote:
> Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of opera,
> hands down. . . . (snip)
First of all, I'm not sure that even Battle would call herself a coloratura.
The only coloratura roles she sang on stage that I am aware of are Cleopatra
(Guilio Cesare) and Marie (La Fille du Regiment). The rest of her repertoire
was basically lyric, and terribly limited by the minuscule size of her voice.
If she is really the greatest coloratura perhaps you would like to explain why
she has been denied access to the word's stages for the past 5 or so years? It
goes way beyond being "difficult." If she was worth it, opera companies would
hire her anyway. You must remember that the recording studio is a very
rarefied atmosphere. You shouldn't necessarily believe what you hear on a
studio recording if it has never been "vetted" before the public.
Don't get me wrong. I like Battle and have most of her recordings. I just
think your statement is a bit naive
Eric Peterson
TomKauf2
It is obvbious that you like coloraturas. But you might try listening to a few
more.
Have you ever heard Lina Pagliughi, Maria Barrientos, Mercedes Capsir, Toti Dal
Monte, Amelita Galli-Curci,, Luisa Tetrazzini, Maria Galvany, Mariella Devia,
Edita Gruberova, Beverly Sills, Lily Pons?
Not being a song-bird fancier myself (although I love the operas they
specialize in), I can't tell you offhand which of them are represented on CD,
but think most of them are
Cheers
Tom
Ed Rosen
At least Benny had a wonderful redeeming feature- he was funny.
Ed
Ed Rosen
Tepper) writes:
>
>In article <6tf4ng$gp3$1...@news.advi.net>, color...@advi.net pondered
>what I'm pondering as follows:
>>
>>opera, hands down.
>
Hey, Matthew- don't go to that masked ball you were supposed to attend.
Ed
David_U
>
> Tommie wrote:
> >
> > Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of opera,
> > hands down.
I have not seen Lilly Pons mentioned here recently. As I
recall she was rated one of the great coloraturas at one
time. Not too powerful but very lyrical and clear. I have
some recordings that even though scratchy show the clarity
and purity of her voice.
*********************************
* From the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* Del.& from address e=k.
http://www.robertstech.com/gallery/page13.htm
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Sun, Sep 13, 1998 09:25 EDT
>Message-id: <199809131325...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
To Tom's list I would add:
Erna Berger
Rita Streich
Roberta Peters
Joan Sutherland
-
Given Tom's exalting of the tenor voice, I am pleased to read that he is aware
of the sounds that often motivate tenor voices to soar.
-
All the best,
G/P Dave
Xise
Claud H. Shirley III
>
> Dear Tommie:
>
> It is obvbious that you like coloraturas. But you might try listening to a few
> more.
>
> Have you ever heard Lina Pagliughi, Maria Barrientos, Mercedes Capsir, Toti Dal
> Monte, Amelita Galli-Curci,, Luisa Tetrazzini, Maria Galvany, Mariella Devia,
> Edita Gruberova, Beverly Sills, Lily Pons?
>
TomKauf2
>Given Tom's exalting of the tenor voice, I am pleased to read that he is aware
of the sounds that often motivate tenor voices to soar.<
Thanks, Dave--yes, I am --given more time (and fewer tenor records) I might
even listen to an occasional soprano. Whci reminds me of a funny, but true
incident: About 12-15 years ago, two different gentlemen (Bill S. and John C.)
were working on Patti books, while I was working on a chronology. It eventually
went to John.--but during a conversation with Bill, he asked me what I thought
of her voice. When I told him that I had never heard her, you could hear the
phone drop. He was so dissilussioned. But my interest has always been the
career (where sopranos are concerned) and the challenge of getting as much of
it as possible, not the voice per se.
One other comment: I do have likes and dislikes where sopranos are concerned. I
tend to like those where, based on their voice and singing, I can accept that a
tenor would fall in love with them. If the voice is ugly, and she tends to
enjoy reading the riot act to tenors--that's it. I can't like her, because I
can't understand what the tenor sees in her.
I will certainly admit to being a bit nuts. But it doesn't bother me one bit.
Tenors rule
Tom
donpaolo
Add Florian Zaback(sp.?)
DonP.
dtritter <dtri...@bway.net> wrote in article
<35FB5B22...@bway.net>...
> and jack benny is the greatest violinist in the history of instrumental
> playing. i have the radio and television tapes that prove it.
>
>
> dft
>
Ed Rosen
E scherzo ed e follia! (as Riccardo sings in Ballo)
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>In <6tfup7$uj$2...@news01.deltanet.com> ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew B.
>Tepper) writes:
>>
>>In article <6tf4ng$gp3$1...@news.advi.net>, color...@advi.net pondered
>>what I'm pondering as follows:
>>>
>>>opera, hands down.
>>
>
>
>Hey, Matthew- don't go to that masked ball you were supposed to
>attend.
>
>Ed
Let's shake hands on it.
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Sun, Sep 13, 1998 11:13 EDT
>Message-id: <6tgnf6$q...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
>
>
>E scherzo ed e follia! (as Riccardo sings in Ballo)
Ed,
That may be what Tucker sang, but a real Italian, Jan Peerce, sang:
"E scherzo od e follia".
==G/P Dave (I'll repent that one at my next prayer breakfast).
Gilion
and Jerry Hadley is the greatest tenor in the history of opera
Galion
Ed Rosen
Tepper) writes:
>
>In article <6tghqf$l...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
lyr...@ix.netcom.com
>pondered what I'm pondering as follows:
>>
>>Tepper) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <6tf4ng$gp3$1...@news.advi.net>, color...@advi.net
pondered
>>>what I'm pondering as follows:
>>>>
>>>>opera, hands down.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Hey, Matthew- don't go to that masked ball you were supposed to
>>attend.
>>
>>Ed
>
>Let's shake hands on it.
Not on your life!!!
Ed Rosen
Hi Dave-
The mistake is mine, not that son of Italy by way of the synagogue-
Richard Tucker.
Ed
Braden Mechley
> Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of opera,
> hands down.
I don't have time to list the dozens and dozens of names who'd head any
coloratura soprano list before Miss B's even occurred to me. Sorry.
> Can you name one bad recording?
Setting aside for the moment the recent travesties like "So Many Stars"
and the second Christopher Parkening collaboration -- how about those
screeched Es in Blondchen's aria?
> Her skill for writing ornamentation is beyond compare when it comes to
> Handel and Mozart.
Does she write her own ornaments?
> She has the best trills in all opera.
I'll agree that she has (had?) a good trill, but ... Selma Kurz? Luisa
Tetrazzini? Dame Joan Sutherland? Or (to turn to sopranos still active)
Ruth Ann Swenson? Renee Fleming? Mariella Devia?
Have you heard Miss Battle recently, by the way?
** Braden Mechley ** ele...@u.washington.edu ** Department of Classics **
MD
coloratura facility in her left little finger and who had the added advantage
of being able to be heard past the 6th row.
Tommie wrote:
> Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of opera,
Christina West
"Tommie" <color...@advi.net> wrote:
> Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of opera,
ROTFL!!
I take it this ludicrous and farcical assertion is intended as a
troll?
--
Christina West
xina on IRC
Email: xi...@argonet.co.uk
Web: www.argonet.co.uk/users/xina/
Mike Richter
> instrumental
> >playing. i have the radio and television tapes that prove it.
>
But, Ed, Battle is a tragedienne. I've been crying over what she did to
her voice and to herself for several years now.
Mike
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
Mike Richter
>
> In article <6tghqf$l...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>, lyr...@ix.netcom.com
> pondered what I'm pondering as follows:
> >
> >Tepper) writes:
> >>
> >>In article <6tf4ng$gp3$1...@news.advi.net>, color...@advi.net pondered
> >>what I'm pondering as follows:
> >>>
> >>
> >>And I am the King of Sweden.
> >
> >
> >Hey, Matthew- don't go to that masked ball you were supposed to
> >attend.
> >
> >Ed
>
> Let's shake hands on it.
What - you'd trust a baritone??!!!
Mike Richter
TomKauf2 wrote:
> One other comment: I do have likes and dislikes where sopranos are concerned. I
> tend to like those where, based on their voice and singing, I can accept that a
> tenor would fall in love with them. If the voice is ugly, and she tends to
> enjoy reading the riot act to tenors--that's it. I can't like her, because I
> can't understand what the tenor sees in her.
What about Lady Macbeth? Beautiful voice or not, she destroys the
baritone and is hapless against the tenor (who is not all that full of
hap himself, but he's young).
Mike Richter
>
> In message <6tf4ng$gp3$1...@news.advi.net>
> "Tommie" <color...@advi.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I take it this ludicrous and farcical assertion is intended as a
> troll?
>
somewhat farther. Given Ms. Battle's recent devolution, I wonder whether
'Tommie' may not be the diva herself under a nom-de-net. Surely, she
could not have been serious in suggesting that Battle could have sung
the Ernani Leonora - or that Ponselle's staccati were inferior because
she was a dramatic soprano.
If Tommie is not Kathleen in disguise, then we may presume she has found
bliss - since we are assured that ignorance is bliss. But, then, Bliss
is no longer with us, is he?
Enrique Eskenazi
tomk...@aol.com (TomKauf2) wrote:
>Not being a song-bird fancier myself (although I love the operas they
>specialize in), I can't tell you offhand which of them are represented
on CD,
>but think most of them are
ALL of them are, fortunately
---
Enrique
eske...@mail.sendanet.es
Io chi sono? Eh, non lo so.
-Nol sapete?
Quasi no.
Jerel Zoltick
Berger, Striech, many others.... even Sills, Sutherland
Battle has a nice small voice...not great.....
jerel
Tommie wrote in message <6tf4ng$gp3$1...@news.advi.net>...
> Kathleen Battle is the greatest coloratura in the history of opera,
Matthew B. Tepper
tomk...@aol.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows:
>
>Mike asks
>
>>What about Lady Macbeth? Beautiful voice or not, she destroys the
>>baritone and is hapless against the tenor (who is not all that full
>>of hap himself, but he's young).
>
>bringing up politics.
>
>But whenever I see Lady Macbeth--I automatically think of another
>"lady". No need to mention who, is there?
>
>No cheers for that "lady"
>
>Tom
And the one I think of is Nancy Reagan, whom I have actually met.
TomKauf2
can...@webtv.net
Mike Richter
> What did this poor lady really do to turn off the entire operatic
> world? I know of many stories, and many of you must also know them.
I can't speak for the world, but I know what she did to turn me off. She
refused to develop her art to go with her voice. It was a gorgeous
instrument and she had a sound technique. But the voice began to evolve
beyond the soubrette roles and she was not prepared to leave them and to
develop appropriate rep. She hung on to parts for which she was ill
suited and left the stage kicking and screaming - kicking at her
colleague and screaming at her audiences.
She recorded some wonderful selections and performed beautifully for a
while. But her variation on the di Stefano thing was almost as painful
as his. Why won't singers look at the careers of those we revere and
recognize that Lehmann, Popp and many others began as Sophie, but wound
up as the Marschallin - and that that is not a bad way to go!
Ed Rosen
>> >>
>> >>And I am the King of Sweden.
>> >
>> >
>> >Hey, Matthew- don't go to that masked ball you were supposed to
>> >attend.
>> >
>> >Ed
>>
>> Let's shake hands on it.
>
>What - you'd trust a baritone??!!!
>
>Mike
Damn right. At least we have brains in our heads instead of just
resonance, like tenors do.!
Ed
Ed Rosen
Hi-
I don't think I've ever come across a topic that garnered so much
mutual agreement. Just about nobody seems to like Battle.
What did this poor lady really do to turn off the entire operatic
world? I know of many stories, and many of you must also know them.
I believe she was a wonderful talent, as a soubrette. I first saw her
in San Francisco as Sophie in Werther with Carreras in '77, and the
following season, also in SF, as Oscar in Ballo with Carreras.
She was fine in both. Her voice had more "core" than it has for at
least the past ten years. Now I hear "air" in her voice, and it is
even smaller than it once was, and it was always quite small.
In a way I feel sorry for her. She comes closer than any other opera
singer I know of to be almost universally disliked in the world of
opera.
Can anyone thing of other singers that had such problems?
Re being the greatest colortura, I certainly think this is a joke. I
don't believe she ever sang Lucia, or Sonnambula, or Puritani, or even
Gilda. These are some of the staples of the coloratura repertory.
I did see her do Fille du Regiment in SF in 1993, and she was, in a
word, awful. Her breaths were louder than her singing. And whenever
she took a breath, a ridiculous squeaking kind of sound accompanied her
breath.
That's the famous run of performances when the stagehands, and chorus,
I think, had t-shirts made up saying "I survived the Battle."
Povera Kathy!
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net> for free catalog & $5 CD sale
Legato Classics, Inc.
http://www.legatoclassics.com
Ed Rosen
>>
>>But whenever I see Lady Macbeth--I automatically think of another
>>"lady". No need to mention who, is there?
>>
>>No cheers for that "lady"
>>
>>Tom
>
>And the one I think of is Nancy Reagan, whom I have actually met.
I hope she checked with her astrologer before she met with you,
Matthew. It might have been the same day you were going the that masked
ball!!
Ed
Placido 21
Galli-Curci,Sutherland,Sills,Boronat,Ivogun,Kurz,Sembrich,Tetrazzini,and
zillions more...You must be 10 yrs.old....CH
Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,and no.1 fan of the great Diana Soviero..so
there!
Placido 21
people who come on here have some nerve...CH
Placido 21
You know after some of the nonsense by this kid and that jerk who calls Tucker
mediocre.i am missing Sarah Freeman so much....CH
Placido 21
tauber!!!!!! CH
Placido 21
understand she is actually a Militza Korjus fan.CH
Tommie
Here is a letter that I sent to someone whom felt the same:
>WHOM would you choose.
My dear, first of all, your grammar is wrong. When I used the word,
"who," I was talking of a person. The word, "whom," is to only be used when
stating such things as, "Those whom use their talents," and, "Those whom
cannot perform." When one asks about another human being, one asks, "Who?,"
not, "Whom?" Certainly you can see the difference, but if you cannot, please
trust my minor in English.
>My credentials are more than a half century of hearing every renowned such
singer in the history of the art form, most live, all in one or another
form.
Onassis certainly heard a few Callas performances, but I must
regretfully inform you that that did not make him an expert on opera, or
singing.
>[my wife sang Rosalinda].
Te Kanawa sang Rosalinda, but that did not make her a great coloratura
soprano.
>oh, child, child, child, a little humility wouldn't hurt. i do hope that
your talent exceeds your brains. nothing else will serve to overcome
this cesspool of vain babble.
This, "cesspool of vain babble," was the result of years of study, and
thousands of dollars spent on recordinds and videos.
>please let me know the score of those who share your adolescent views.
May I ask your age? In my experiences, I have noticed that most people
over the age of 50 completely agree with YOU, wheras most people under the
age of 50 agree with ME. I can understand how you need to defend the honor
of your favorites, the singers that you first heard, but I must tell you
that their, "styles," are outdated. If you, like most YOUNGER people, could
hear both, past and present, without having connections to either, you would
be forced to choose current singers simply because of talent and musical
intelligence, not because of the ADOLESCENT, personal feelings that are
currently yours. Oh, also, It is, "...the score of those WHOM share your
adolescent views...," not, "who."
Also, how dare you insult my intelligence, I was accepted into college
at the age of sixteen after graduating two years early from high school, and
I am currently earning a Masters Degree in vocal performance.
Humility? It was not as if I was describing my best friend or even
myself as the greatest coloratura soprano ever, I was describing my favorite
celebritiy sopranos. Why should I honor and respect inferior singers. I do
honor Maria Callas for re-popularizing bel canto after World War II, but she
had a fine talent and a vast musical intelligence as well. You honor and
respect these older singers because of your age, you cannot rethink your
views because the act of doing so would completely disrupt your ways of
thinking. You have a closed mind, and until you are able to break away from
your already made up mind, you will never have the ability to respect art
and talent over legend.
My critiques of sopranos are thourough, truthful, and almost scientific.
For example, here is a copy of a letter that I sent someone else:
Beverly Sills has a muddy lower register (I mean when she trills the low
notes in her, "Doll Song," you can actually hear the bile in her throat),
Her middle register leaves something to be desired because of her, "hour
glass," voice, and her upper register was underdeveloped (hey, she neglected
many of the optional higher notes that are required these days of
coloraturas), plus let's not forget her often times, "wild," vibrato on top
notes. Her famous, "Una voce poco fa," is an absolute joke because of these
facts as well. Lily Pons only trilled, I think, maybe three times in the
entire span of her career, and she widened her mouth horizontally many times
to create the final high
notes of many of her coloratura performances, creating a really closed
sound, a let's not forget how she turned her head to the right and stiffened
her upper torso each time she emitted notes of any kind, especiallly notes
with coloratura written on them. I have also heard Madame Gruberova's, "Doll
song," and her entire
performance is just weak and uninspired, and her lower range is weaker than
that. Her lower trills are almost inaudible! Many of her higher notes
sounded strained, even in her youth. She was no great artist, and no great
writer of ornamentation. All the other coloraturas that you mentioned are
from the, "Golden Age," of recording. I stopped listening to most of those
performances after I bought the, "famous," Beecham, "Die Zauberflote." The
coloratura emissions of the Konigin der Nacht, Erna Berger, where poorly
executed and poorly recorded as well, and to be be perfectly honest, many
coloraturas got away with bad singing back then because no one really knew
what the good stuff really sounded like in the absence of widespread
recordings. The coloraturas of old are inferior to those of today. Let's not
forget also that singer's only started using vibrato full time a relatively
short time ago as well. Believe me, in my quest to find the best recordings
of arias and roles, I have bought many recordings, and I must tell you that
the coloraturas I listed are the best that I have heard. They are superior
singers, artists, and actresses, and I have never been disappointed by one
of their performances, unlike the time that I bought the famous Sutherland,
"Lakme," only to be disappointed by her bicycle horn-like staccato notes,
uneven vibrato, and her lack of control on her upper register (Her final E
natural is a weak and lifeless joke!).
My knowledge of music has been the result of research, not age. I
recommend you read a few books on proper vocal mechanics, musical
ornamentation, and acting before you criticise me again. Also, try listening
to some of the sopranos that I listed with an open mind, you may be
pleasantly surprised by what you hear.
>I fear, little girl, that you have just undressed in public.
I am not just a simple little girl coloratura soubrette. My roles
include the following, all of which have been performed in either student
productions or professional:
Opera:
Konigin der Nacht
Adele
Susanna
Zerlina
Norina
Cleopatra
Violetta
Semele
Oratorio and Motet:
Messiah - Soprano
Samson - Soprano
Joshua - Soprano
Exsultate, jubilate
I have also won many awards, and my entire college stay is being
completely funded by a scholarship for INTELLIGENT singing, not just
singing.
Tommie
________________________________________________
Sent:
Kathleen Battle
Sumi Jo
Natalie Dessay
Sylvia McNair
Jessye Norman
Denyce Graves
Leontyne Price
Hellen Goldsby
Barbara Hendricks
Renee Fleming
Maria Callas
ANY ADDITIONS?
___________________________________________
Received:
Tommie wrote:
>
> Kathleen Battle
> Sumi Jo
> Natalie Dessay
> Sylvia McNair
> Jessye Norman
> Denyce Graves
> Leontyne Price
> Hellen Goldsby
> Barbara Hendricks
> Renee Fleming
> Maria Callas
>
> ANY ADDITIONS?
any subtractions?
dft
________________________________________________
Sent:
Who would you choose? What are your credentials? I happen to be a
trained coloratura so I think I have some right to judge. When was the last
time you sang Adele? I sang the role just last Saturday. If you want to talk
archives, those, "Golden Age," sopranos are all jokes. Their vocal emissions
have been no help to me. Also, we must not forget that singers only started
to use vibrato all through their singing a relatively short time ago when
you look at a musical time line. I am not talking about potential. Sure, if
everyone had fulfilled their potentials, they could have been rivals to
singers on my list, but of course not everyone did. We are talking about the
best, the physical best...not public opinion, not legend, but hard evidence.
If a vocal competition could ever take place in which all the great sopranos
of all time could compete, The sopranos of today would of course reign
supreme because of the vast amount of knowledge, on both music and vocal
mechanics, that is theirs. The sopranos of old did not know what the good
stuff sounded like, and also had few rivals because of money for training,
so the coloraturas that became famous sang the roles to acclaim because the
public did not know what they were missing. I assure you that if Madame
Lilly Pons were to be brought back to life in her full youthful glory
without her legend, and she sang Lucia, she WOULD but laughed off the
stage!!!
________________________________________________
Received:
Tommie wrote:
>
> Who would you choose?
please, WHOM would you choose.
i could make a list that would leave yours in their well earned dust,
but i'll not do so, allowing for differences in taste, if not knowledge.
>What are your credentials? I happen to be a> trained coloratura so I think
I have some right to judge. When was the last> time you sang Adele? I sang
the role just last Saturday.
I fear, little girl, that you have just undressed in public. My
credentials are more than a half century of hearing every renowned such
singer in the history of the art form, most live, all in one or another
form. I am married to a dramatic coloratura soprano whose more than
20-year career included the Met, la Scala, Vienna, Munich, and dozens of
other houses. I didn't sing Adele last Saturday, nmor need I have done
so to prove my judgment. I have heard more Adeles than you have been
years on this earth [my wife sang Rosalinda].
> If you want to talk> archives, those, "Golden Age," sopranos are all
jokes. Their vocal emissions> have been no help to me. Also, we must not
forget that singers only started> to use vibrato all through their singing a
relatively short time ago when> you look at a musical time line. I am not
talking about potential. Sure, if> everyone had fulfilled their potentials,
they could have been rivals to> singers on my list, but of course not
everyone did. We are talking about the> best, the physical best...not public
opinion, not legend, but hard evidence.
please, remember to wash behind your ears and eat your pablum. this
little tantrum does you no credit, merely exposing an ignorance that i
shall charitably ascribe to lack of opportunity and not lack of native
intelligence.
> If a vocal competition could ever take place in which all the great
sopranos> of all time could compete, The sopranos of today would of course
reign> supreme because of the vast amount of knowledge, on both music and
vocal> mechanics, that is theirs. The sopranos of old did not know what the
good> stuff sounded like, and also had few rivals because of money for
training,> so the coloraturas that became famous sang the roles to acclaim
because the> public did not know what they were missing. I assure you that
if Madame> Lilly Pons were to be brought back to life in her full youthful
glory> without her legend, and she sang Lucia, she WOULD but laughed off
the> stage!!!
oh, child, child, child, a little humility wouldn't hurt. i do hope that
your talent exceeds your brains. nothing else will serve to overcome
this cesspool of vain babble.
care to tell me where you have acquired this certitude? by the way,
please let me know the score of those who share your adolescent views.
dft
_________________________________________________
Sent:
Ed Rosen
>
> How dare any of you criticise my completely researched opinion!
>
Nothing. What puts you above the rest of us?
> Here is a letter that I sent to someone whom felt the same:
>
>>WHOM would you choose.
>
> My dear, first of all, your grammar is wrong. When I used the
word,
>"who," I was talking of a person. The word, "whom," is to only be used
when
>stating such things as, "Those whom use their talents," and, "Those
whom
>cannot perform." When one asks about another human being, one asks,
"Who?,"
>not, "Whom?" Certainly you can see the difference, but if you cannot,
please
>trust my minor in English.
Thank you, Professor Higgens!
>
>>My credentials are more than a half century of hearing every renowned
such
>singer in the history of the art form, most live, all in one or
another
>form.
>
> Onassis certainly heard a few Callas performances, but I must
>regretfully inform you that that did not make him an expert on opera,
or
>singing.
Onassis was a great colortura himself.
>
>>[my wife sang Rosalinda].
who cares?
>
> Te Kanawa sang Rosalinda, but that did not make her a great
coloratura
>soprano.
Rosalinda is not a coloratura role.
>
>>oh, child, child, child, a little humility wouldn't hurt. i do hope
that
>your talent exceeds your brains. nothing else will serve to overcome
>this cesspool of vain babble.
The cesspool needs to be drained. It is overflowing.
>
>
> This, "cesspool of vain babble," was the result of years of study,
and
>thousands of dollars spent on recordinds and videos.
You have woefully wasted you money and your years.
>
>>please let me know the score of those who share your adolescent
views.
Just read this newsgroup!
>
>
> May I ask your age? In my experiences, I have noticed that most
people
>over the age of 50 completely agree with YOU, wheras most people under
the
>age of 50 agree with ME. I can understand how you need to defend the
honor
>of your favorites, the singers that you first heard, but I must tell
you
>that their, "styles," are outdated. If you, like most YOUNGER people,
could
>hear both, past and present, without having connections to either, you
would
>be forced to choose current singers simply because of talent and
musical
>intelligence, not because of the ADOLESCENT, personal feelings that
are
>currently yours. Oh, also, It is, "...the score of those WHOM share
your
>adolescent views...," not, "who."
I don't know what the hell you just said.
Who, whom, shmo- who gives a damn.
> Also, how dare you insult my intelligence, I was accepted into
college
>at the age of sixteen after graduating two years early from high
school, and
>I am currently earning a Masters Degree in vocal performance.
Perhaps those extra two years of high school would have been a help!
> Humility? It was not as if I was describing my best friend or even
>myself as the greatest coloratura soprano ever, I was describing my
favorite
>celebritiy sopranos. Why should I honor and respect inferior singers.
That's the very question we've all been asking.
I do
>honor Maria Callas for re-popularizing bel canto after World War II,
but she
>had a fine talent and a vast musical intelligence as well. You honor
and
>respect these older singers because of your age, you cannot rethink
your
>views because the act of doing so would completely disrupt your ways
of
>thinking. You have a closed mind, and until you are able to break away
from
>your already made up mind, you will never have the ability to respect
art
>and talent over legend.
The only thing being disrupted is the sanity of those reading your
words.
Better to have a closed mind than no mind.
> My critiques of sopranos are thourough, truthful, and almost
scientific.
Albert Einstein lives!
>For example, here is a copy of a letter that I sent someone else:
> Beverly Sills has a muddy lower register (I mean when she trills
the low
>notes in her, "Doll Song," you can actually hear the bile in her
throat),
That's vile- no bile.
>Her middle register leaves something to be desired because of her,
"hour
>glass," voice, and her upper register was underdeveloped (hey, she
neglected
>many of the optional higher notes that are required these days of
>coloraturas), plus let's not forget her often times, "wild," vibrato
on top
She in fact threw in more high notes than any coloratura I can think
of. Her interpolations were the stuff legends were made of.
>notes. Her famous, "Una voce poco fa," is an absolute joke because of
these
>facts as well. Lily Pons only trilled, I think, maybe three times in
the
>entire span of her career, and she widened her mouth horizontally many
times
>to create the final high
>notes of many of her coloratura performances, creating a really closed
>sound, a let's not forget how she turned her head to the right and
stiffened
>her upper torso -( perhaps she had gas.)
Pons only trilled three times in a 35 year career? Are you Rip Van
Winkle? Wake up!!
each time she emitted notes of any kind, especiallly notes
>with coloratura written on them. I have also heard Madame Gruberova's,
"Doll
>song," and her entire
>performance is just weak and uninspired, and her lower range is weaker
than
>that. Her lower trills are almost inaudible! Many of her higher notes
>sounded strained, even in her youth. She was no great artist, and no
great
>writer of ornamentation. All the other coloraturas that you mentioned
are
>from the, "Golden Age," of recording. I stopped listening to most of
those
>performances after I bought the, "famous," Beecham, "Die Zauberflote."
The
>coloratura emissions of the Konigin der Nacht, Erna Berger, where
poorly
>executed and poorly recorded as well, and to be be perfectly honest,
many
>coloraturas got away with bad singing back then because no one really
knew
>what the good stuff really sounded like in the absence of widespread
>recordings. The coloraturas of old are inferior to those of today.
Yes, I do prefer June Anderson to Tetrazzini, don't you?
So Battle is indeed superior to her every predecesor? Malarky!!
Let's not
>forget also that singer's only started using vibrato full time a
relatively
>short time ago as well. Believe me, in my quest to find the best
recordings
>of arias and roles, I have bought many recordings, and I must tell you
that
>the coloraturas I listed are the best that I have heard. They are
superior
>singers, artists, and actresses, and I have never been disappointed by
one
>of their performances, unlike the time that I bought the famous
Sutherland,
>"Lakme," only to be disappointed by her bicycle horn-like staccato
notes,
>uneven vibrato, and her lack of control on her upper register (Her
final E
>natural is a weak and lifeless joke!).
So is this entire post of yours.
I've run out of things to say. How utterfly absurd this last paragraph
or so is.
Ed
>
>
LuciaMim
I thought this title was just a joke and was looking forward to a good laugh.
After just getting out of the hospital, I sure need one. Imagine my shock when
I discovered the poster was serious.
The only laughs I got were from some of the replies, like Charlie's. Thank
you, Charlie. I thought I had taken too much pain medication. Now I can skip
one.
Best wishes
Mimi
Ed Rosen
Oh- about 15 minutes ago. The laughing song, after reading your
previous post.
I sang the role just last Saturday.
Where- in your bathroom?
If you want to talk
>archives, those, "Golden Age," sopranos are all jokes. Their vocal
emissions
>have been no help to me.
You would appear to be beyond help. Their vocal emissions are admired
world wide.
Somehow, I don't think so.
>
>________________________________________________
>
>Received:
>
>Tommie wrote:
>>
>> Who would you choose?
>
>please, WHOM would you choose.
>i could make a list that would leave yours in their well earned dust,
>but i'll not do so, allowing for differences in taste, if not
knowledge.
Their certainly are differences in knowledge. Like some against none.
>
>>What are your credentials? I happen to be a> trained coloratura so I
think
>I have some right to judge. When was the last> time you sang Adele? I
sang
>the role just last Saturday.
We're becoming very repetitious here, aren't we?
>productions or professional: (or in my bathroom)
>
>Opera:
>Konigin der Nacht
>Adele
>Susanna
>Zerlina
>Norina
>Cleopatra
>Violetta
>Semele
>
>Oratorio and Motet:
>Messiah - Soprano
>Samson - Soprano
>Joshua - Soprano
>Exsultate, jubilate
>
> I have also won many awards, and my entire college stay is being
>completely funded by a scholarship for INTELLIGENT singing, not just
>singing.
>
>
>I don't know "whom" wrote anymore, but I know I'm confused as hell.
Ed Rosen
In my somewhat scarcstic answers to "Tommie" I may have scarcastically
answered DFT. This was not my intention. I had trouble deciphering
"whom wrote whom."
DFT's wife was a wonderful coloratura, and his words certainly carry
truth, unlike this "Tommie" character.
Sorry, Dan, if my sarcasm may have followed a quote of yours. It
wasn't meant to be that way. I originally thought Tommie wrote the
entire post.
I will admit to being a bit confused at the time when coloratura Tommie
said her wife sang Rosalinda!! Now I understand.
No offense, Dan. As for Tommie, I think you might richly deserve any
offense you receive.
Ed
dtritter
i had the unique experience of receiving the preceding e-mail, a medium
i thought to be restrained out of kindness to children not yet out of
toilet training. while i was restraining the urge to let you all get a
look at this example of what lady bracknell meant when she observed that
education in [england] had had no effect whatever, the poor thing beat
me to the punch and republished the exchange.
i see that tommie will soon be heard on our stages, demonstrating the
vocal wisdom she has so assiduously accumulated [from those under 50, i
trust. anything else would be unthinkable.] i am naturally happy to see
that some scholarships are awarded for INTELLIGENT singing, not just
singing.
from the foregoing evidence, i fear that nothing will help her. it must
be an absolute joy to teach her. think what it will be like for her
colleagues to come. do you think that she will be privileged to be cast
in a professional situation as a colleague of kathleen battle ... and
what she will have to report to us afterward?
parenthetically, i was overjoyed to be analogized to ari onassis; i
immediately called my banker and asked for a million dollars in unmarked
bills.
one last bit of advice for this prima inter pares: cut out them grammar!
dft
Shahrdad
Tommie wrote in message <6thrt8$5iv$1...@news.advi.net>...
> My dear, first of all, your grammar is wrong. When I used the word,
>"who," I was talking of a person. The word, "whom," is to only be used when
>stating such things as, "Those whom use their talents," and, "Those whom
>cannot perform." When one asks about another human being, one asks, "Who?,"
>not, "Whom?" Certainly you can see the difference, but if you cannot,
please
>trust my minor in English.
Actually, it's the other way around. "Whom would you choose?" is correct.
It's the object of the verb, so "whom" is the right word, as it would be had
it followed a preposition, such as "To whom it may concern." So the correct
version of the above sentences are, "Those who use their talents," and
"Those who cannot perform," in both cases the word referring to the subject
of the verb.
Who knows, perhaps Anna Russell's opinion on the intellectual acumen of
Coloratura Sopranos was accurate after all!
Happy listening.
S.
Christina West
"Tommie" <color...@advi.net> wrote:
> How dare any of you criticise my completely researched opinion!
Oops! Pardon me while I wet myself!
> Here is a letter that I sent to someone whom felt the same:
Someone WHO felt the same...
> >WHOM would you choose.
>
> My dear, first of all, your grammar is wrong. When I used the word,
> "who," I was talking of a person. The word, "whom," is to only be used when
> stating such things as, "Those whom use their talents," and, "Those whom
> cannot perform." When one asks about another human being, one asks, "Who?,"
> not, "Whom?" Certainly you can see the difference, but if you cannot, please
> trust my minor in English.
It's must be exceedingly minor. A little lesson:
'Who' - nominative case
'Whom - accusative case
Thus:
'WHOM would you choose?'
Subject - 'you'
Verb - 'would ... choose'
Object - 'whom', hence accusative case.
'Those WHOM use their talents' - not a complete sentence, requiring a
continuation to make sense, such as 'Those WHOM use their talents are
admirable'. Should, of course, be 'Those WHO use their talents are
admirable'.
Main sentence:
Subject - 'Those' ('people', understood, not, for example, 'cows')
Verb - 'are'
Object - 'admirable' ('people', understood, again)
Subordinate clause, qualifying 'Those' (people):
Subject - 'who', hence nominative case
Verb - 'use'
Object - 'their talents'
I've kept it as simple as possible, in deference to your level.
Maybe English is not your first language?
I won't attempt to counter your ill-informed and jejune comments on
singing, others have already done so far more eloquently than I could.
However, I would advise you to steer clear of discussing grammar, of
which you have obviously no understanding at all. If you HAVE gained
some kind of academic qualification in English, that is a worrying
comment on whichever education system awarded it to you, since it has
left you with no understanding of something as basic as the correct
use of nominative and accusative cases. How are you on apostrophes?
> May I ask your age? In my experiences, I have noticed that most people
> over the age of 50 completely agree with YOU, wheras most people under the
> age of 50 agree with ME.
I haven't as yet seen ANYONE agree with you. I am 34, myself.
> Oh, also, It is, "...the score of those WHOM share your adolescent
> views...," not, "who."
No, wrong again, it is, in this case 'who'. The 'who' is the SUBJECT
of the verb 'share'. Is it not beginning to sink in yet?
> Also, how dare you insult my intelligence,
I await any evidence of it patiently.
> I was accepted into college
Remarkable, considering...
> at the age of sixteen after graduating two years early from high school
Ah - maybe you should have done the other two years - must have been
when they covered 'who' and 'whom'.
> [snipped a ton of confused verbiage and tangled quoting]
--
Christina West
xina on IRC
Email: xi...@argonet.co.uk
Web: www.argonet.co.uk/users/xina/
Skip
must be listening to her recordings in the later years, This was
one hell of a singer/actress in her earlier years, a career that
spanned nearly 30 years, sung in every major opera house, and had
a repitoire of more than 75 roles. The letter you sent (to
whom-ever) means nothing, because their is nothing to back your
ignorant statements.
Beverly Sills has a muddy lower register (I mean when she trills
the
low
notes in her, "Doll Song," you can actually hear the bile in her
throat),
Her middle register leaves something to be desired because of her,
"hour
glass," voice, and her upper register was underdeveloped (hey, she
neglected
many of the optional higher notes that are required these days of
coloraturas), plus let's not forget her often times, "wild,"
vibrato on top
notes. Her famous, "Una voce poco fa," is an absolute joke because
of these
facts as well.
Skip
Skip
and if she (tommie) is a singer, could not be very good, to make
such ignorant statements on singing. Battle is as much a
coloratura as Lily Pons was a dramatic soprano. How could Tommie
say Battle was (is) a great coloratura when she never sang the
standard coloratura rep, such as Lucia, Puritani, Sonnumbula etc.
Tommie really needs to go back to the books, or at least go to
some LIVE performances, Battle? Its more of a Battle to try to
hear her beyond the 6th row, and lets not even get into facial
expressions when she sings, because of bad technique, and a tongue
that goes 100 miles an hour.
Braden Mechley wrote:
>
>
>
> Have you heard Miss Battle recently, by the way?
>
> ** Braden Mechley ** ele...@u.washington.edu ** Department of Classics **
A T
de masters.
onli zink thei haf de reason. dst is hau dei gets scrud up.
--
_ _
\ @ /
( )
( )
_\/ \/_
LuciaMim wrote in message
<199809140656...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Eric D. Peterson
Tommie wrote:
> How dare any of you criticise my completely researched opinion!
>
> Here is a letter that I sent to someone whom felt the same:
>
> >WHOM would you choose.
>
> My dear, first of all, your grammar is wrong. When I used the word,
> "who," I was talking of a person. The word, "whom," is to only be used when
> stating such things as, "Those whom use their talents," and, "Those whom
> cannot perform." When one asks about another human being, one asks, "Who?,"
> not, "Whom?" Certainly you can see the difference, but if you cannot, please
> trust my minor in English.
>
> >My credentials are more than a half century of hearing every renowned such
> singer in the history of the art form, most live, all in one or another
> form.
>
> (snip)
>
> >please let me know the score of those who share your adolescent views.
>
> May I ask your age? In my experiences, I have noticed that most people
> over the age of 50 completely agree with YOU, wheras most people under the
> age of 50 agree with ME.
(snip)
Tommie:
Your willful ignorance is as shocking as your rudeness. This news group
includes individuals who have who have heard generations of singers who have
graced the stage over the fast 50 years including several distinguished
critics. At least one of the individuals who has responded to your messages is
a professional singer, and another individual you singled out for attack is the
husband of a very distinguished coloratura -- I won't mention her name as I
doubt that you have ever heard of her -- she sang in the pre historical period
known as the 60's and the 70's. Their opinions have a context that is broader
than is possible for someone your age despite the "thousands of dollars spent on
CDs and videos" (there is nothing more instructive than hearing singers live --
unmediated by engineering). We all have differences of opinion but can express
them without resorting to dramatic flourishes like "how dare you criticize . .
.."
I am part of the "under 50" crowd and I most certainly do NOT agree with you
(although at 35 imagine you consider me ancient -- from the clues you have left
in your messages it seems that I have been listening to opera and singers since
the year of your birth). I hold a degree in music and I hazard to guess that I
have spent a few MORE thousands of dollars than you on records, CDs, and above
all OPERA TICKETS in MY "research" than you have. I consider my opinions to be
well informed too, but I have learned to respect the opinions of others. You
could learn a lot from the individuals who post here if you can manage to find a
little humility. Of course you should save a little time for boning up on the
correct usage of "who" and "whom."
It seems that your supporters -- either above or below the age of 50) have yet
to show their faces.
It would seem that you have made a fool of yourself.
Eric Peterson
Claud H. Shirley III
> (snip-snip-snip-snip-snip-snip)
I think that Ken Lane, helden-romantische tenor extraordinaire has come
out of the telephone booth reconstituted as Tommie, the soubrette
coloratura who also knows everything, everybody, and is a consummate
success becuase she says so.
Hans Christian Hoff
Perish the thought !
(BTW, is there ever written any duet for coloratura soprano and
romantischer heldentenor ?)
Hans
JDavis6627
Christina,
This whole post of yours was a wonderful reply to the inane "Tommie" - far
better than I could have done. Thank you on behalf of all rmo-ers who would
just as soon slap this idiot-child right across the face.
Jon Davis
"We are all fumbling along . . alone."
Ned Rorem
JDavis6627
>romantischer heldentenor ?)
Siegfried and the Forest Bird.
Michael Black
> Tommie wrote in message <6thrt8$5iv$1...@news.advi.net>...
>
> >The word, "whom," is to only be used when stating such things as
I don't need to correct your other grammar mistakes since Christina already did
a beautiful job, but while you have been acquiring that English minor, did your
professors ever tell you NOT to separate infinitives?
BTW, I'm 21, i.e., under 50, and could not disagree more with your assessments
with Ms. Battle.
--
"Sit back and relax..."
http://www.stairway.org/bjorling/
Bjoerling and Zajick Rule!!!
Ed Rosen
writes:
>if you like a voice the size of a thimble.
>
And a charm to match.
Matthew B. Tepper
And an ego to remind one of a well-known opera singer who appeared on
the big screen -- I think his name was "Willie."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
zerbi...@my-dejanews.com
dtri...@bway.net wrote:
*an excellent reply to Tommie which I have snipped with apologies*
Sigh.
This (Tommie's original post) is the kind of thing that gives young
singers a bad name.
I too have spent years, lots of money, and a ton of time training to be
a professional opera singer (a coloratura soprano, no less!). However,
I certainly don't think this makes me the supreme authority on my voice
type (or any other, for that matter). Taste is subjective, Tommie. Did
they not teach you that in school?
If you love Kathleen Battle, that's wonderful--buy all the recordings
you can, learn from her, enjoy her to your heart's content. But do NOT
presume to belittle others' tastes simply because they don't agree with
yours. That is not adult behavior and definitely doesn't make you a
candidate for best colleague, either.
...and I just have to add...boy, the problems you mentioned with those
"other sopranos" (Sutherland, Sills et al) REALLY hurt their careers,
don't you think?
Sincerely yours,
Zerbinetta
a.a. #1248
--
"My karma ran over my dogma."
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
ve...@my-dejanews.com
"Tommie" <color...@advi.net> wrote:
>
> How dare any of you criticise my completely researched opinion!
>
Tommie,
Have a look at <http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=384583646>.
And do yourself a favor... tone it down.
GV
Matthew B. Tepper
[Well-expressed response to "Tommie" snipped]
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Zerbinetta
> a.a. #1248
>
> --
> "My karma ran over my dogma."
The quote is "HIS karma ran over my dogma," and credit should go to the
Flying Karamazov Brothers, who have used this line in their act for
about the past twenty years. Remember Mike Barnicle!
Adri...@webtv.net
fooling whom?"
~A~
Rex Tremendo
Mattiwilda Dobbs.
Placido 21 wrote (usual blather).
jfu...@unix.asb.com
plac...@aol.com (Placido 21) wrote:
> Even battle..with her nasty personality and ego..would laugh at the idea..I
> understand she is actually a Militza Korjus fan.CH
> Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,and no.1 fan of the great Diana
Soviero..so
> there!
Korjus.........rhymes with gorgeous!!!
jfu...@unix.asb.com
symantics, merely case. "Who" is the nominative case, as in the subject
of a sentence and "whom" is objective case as in the object of a
preposition "to whom", "from whom", etc.
Your phrase < "Those whom use their talents,"> is laughable. Perhaps
English should have been a major, not a minor.
I don't quarrel with your opinions about opera, I just don't share them.
In fact, it's not likely that anyone would disagree with you - what would
be the point? You have decided!!
Cheers!
Joe
Placido 21
with the doctor...OUCH!!!!!! CH
Tommie
Don't you people get it? It is not about grammar, it is about opera. Forget
the damn form, focus on the topic at hand! I could email you 500 quotes from
500 notable professors that would blow your little shitty, "who," "whom,"
theory out of the water! It is about opera! Vocal performance! Get some
opinions of your own, or get the HELL out!
Matthew Benton
Tommie wrote:
> your little shitty, "who," "whom," theory
I'll have to look into this new field, theoretical grammar. It sounds
fascinating!
Matthew
Richard Wall
the Leonard Warren tape. It came practically overnight and I've ridden around
all day in the car enjoying it.
It's old-fashioned singing of old-fashioned songs to be sure, but it takes me
back and I love it.
Thanks, Ed
Matthew B. Tepper
looking forward to the commute home!
--
Skip
would take on the personality of Battle?
Ed Rosen wrote:
>
> Tommie started this assinine " who and whom" nonsense, not she writes
> that we should stop it- it's not important.
>
> You're right- so why the hell did you flaunt this utter nonsense at us.
>
> And who are you to tell anyone to get the hell out of here?
>
> What a nervy, nasty person you seem to be.
>
> Try making a nice post, saying nice, positive things, without attacking
> anyone. I bet you can't do it.
>
> Ed
Matthew B. Tepper
pondered what I'm pondering as follows:
>
>ED: COULD SHE BE K B HERSELF?
For starters, can anybody with access to a bio of the singer check on
her college career?
Matthew B. Tepper
>
><rcw...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>
>>Please allow me to take this opportunity publicaly thank Ed Rosen for
>>sending the Leonard Warren tape. It came practically overnight and
>>I've ridden around all day in the car enjoying it.
>>
>>It's old-fashioned singing of old-fashioned songs to be sure, but it
>>takes me back and I love it.
>>
>>Thanks, Ed
>
>
>I agree- the songs and the singing is wonderful. Warren was obviously
>a wonderful interpreter of these songs, and really acts out some of
>the Kipling poems put to music, such as "Gunga Din." He positively
>relishes the words.
>
>The shame of it is that there is little chance that any of these
>wonderful performances will see the light of day on CD.
>
>We at Legato have written RCA asking how much they would want to
>actually license LP's such as this. We specifically asked about the
>Zinka Milanov Song Recital, where the great Milanov sings many
>beautiful songs with her brother at the piano. She even sings a song
>or two in English, including a ravishing "Do Not Go My Love."
>
>RCA wrote back with more or less a form letter saying that at this
>point in time they have no plans to license this album, or to do
>anything with it.
>
>What a shame, and how stupid. They have so much vocal greatness in
>their archives, that it boggles the mind. How stupid can they be.
>They just sit on it, doing nothing, while everyone and anyone who
>heard Milanov why just gets older and older, and soon none of us will
>be left.
Unfortunately, all too typical of the morons who run the record
industry these days.
In case I hadn't made it clear in a parallel post (and particularly now
that I have heard some of the tape on my drive home from the office), I
add my thanks, Ed, to what is sure to become a growing chorus!
>Best,
>Ed
>Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net> for free catalog & $5 CD sale
>Legato Classics,Inc.
>http://www.legatoclassics.com
Mike Richter
>
> Battle, even at her very best, pales in comparison (oops) to the legendary
> Mattiwilda Dobbs.
'Legendary' like hell! There aren't a lot of recordings, but enough and
even a video. A great artist who I understand is still teaching. I
haven't heard a lyric today who would not benefit by what she knows.
Mike
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
Mike Richter
Let us be fair.
The voice is not the size needed for the Met, but it is ample in a more
accomodating environment. A decade ago, whe was a fine performer in
concert and on the opera stage, but hers was not a large voice.
IMHO, it is not reasonable to require that all singers be able to fill
the Met in order to be considered capable.
Mike
--
Stregata
>It is about opera! Vocal performance! Get some
>opinions of your own, or get the HELL out!
>
Madame:
Everybody has opinions of their own in RMO, knowledgeable, diversified and
valid opinions, so why do WE have to get the hell out? It seems to me that is
a very presumptious and arrogant attitude.
Stregata
Mitchell Weitz
>In response to a very uninformed soul.
>
>Don't you people get it? It is not about grammar, it is about opera. Forget
>the damn form, focus on the topic at hand! I could email you 500 quotes from
>500 notable professors that would blow your little shitty, "who," "whom,"
>theory out of the water!
Professors of what? Broken English?
Let's not forget that YOU chose to lord your "minor in English" over
the rest of us -- notwithstanding that you were just plain wrong about
a simple point of grammar.
Face it -- you picked a fight in public and wound up with egg on your
face, and now you're blaming everyone else when the fault is yours
alone.
>It is about opera! Vocal performance! Get some
>opinions of your own, or get the HELL out!
>
We have plenty of opinions about opera, you ignorant troll (by and
large, better-informed ones than you have), and have been exchanging
them for years before you came along, and we will continue to exchange
them for years after you (to use your own phrase) "get the hell out."
P.S. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
**************************
Mitchell Weitz
mwe...@nospam.earthlink.net
delete "nospam" for email
**************************
Ed Rosen
Ed Rosen
A T
Lis K. Froding
> How dare any of you criticise my completely researched opinion!
>
> Here is a letter that I sent to someone whom felt the same:
>
>>WHOM would you choose.
>
> My dear, first of all, your grammar is wrong. When I used the word,
>"who," I was talking of a person. The word, "whom," is to only be used
>when stating such things as, "Those whom use their talents," and,
>"Those whom cannot perform." When one asks about another human being,
>one asks, "Who?," not, "Whom?" Certainly you can see the difference,
>but if you cannot, please trust my minor in English.
Phew. Am relieved it wasn't a major.
Lis
Lis K. Froding
lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
>Better to have a closed mind than no mind.
I hope I can remember this line at the right opportunity. LOL!
Lis
Lis K. Froding
"Tommie" <color...@advi.net> wrote:
>Don't you people get it? It is not about grammar, it is about opera.
The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know.
Some day it may dawn on you that correct grammar doesn't hurt one bit
when you have to explain something and don't want to be misunderstood.
> Forget the damn form, focus on the topic at hand!
This is a forum where we read and write. Forgetting what it looks
like is impossible.
> I could email you 500 quotes from 500 notable professors that would
>blow your little shitty, "who," "whom," theory out of the water!
Notable in what way?
> It is about opera!
>Vocal performance! Get some opinions of your own, or get the HELL out!
Out of where? And may I suggest you lurk a while; then you may just
notice that we _do_ have opinions, LOTS of them.
Lis
Ed Rosen
>>
>
>her college career?
We might also try to find out if she answers the door by saying "whom's
there."
Ed
Rex Tremendo
characterization of 'legendary'? I was not putting her down. I agree that
she was a fine artist.
Mike Richter wrote
>Rex Tremendo wrote:
>>
>> Battle, even at her very best, pales in comparison (oops) to the
legendary
>> Mattiwilda Dobbs.
>
>'Legendary' like hell! There aren't a lot of recordings, but enough and
>even a video. A great artist who I understand is still teaching. I
>haven't heard a lyric today who would not benefit by what she knows.
>
>Mike
>
Skip
tr~~~~~~ tr~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eduardo Gabarra
>>
>> Battle, even at her very best, pales in comparison (oops) to the
legendary
>> Mattiwilda Dobbs.
>Mike Richter wrote in message <35FDF1...@mindspring.com>...
>'Legendary' like hell! There aren't a lot of recordings, but enough and
>even a video. A great artist who I understand is still teaching. I
>haven't heard a lyric today who would not benefit by what she knows.
She is absolutely the best Leila in Les Pecheurs de Perles - and the
competition is fierce: Martha Angelici, Janine Micheau, Barbara Hendricks
and others.
Eduardo Gabarra
Tommie
batty, that's all.
P.S. I am still waiting for the critiques of my critiques.
Tommie
Inferiority complex? Your pen name is Placido 21, a baritone turned tenor,
but you list yourself as a, "baritono somewhat supremo." Does your head say
baritone, but heart say tenor? Poor, pathetic soul. You keep working on that
upper register! Perhaps you dream will come true.
Bets Wishes for Greatness
Pablo
You can reason with the terrorist.
--
pee aye you elle eff @ pee aye en eye ecks . sea oh em
or
peter able uncle love fox @ peter able nan item xray . charlie oboe mike
Pablo
paulf@/munge/panix.com (Pablo) wrote:
* What's the difference between a soprano and a terrorist?
*
* You can reason with the terrorist.
What's another difference between a soprano and a terrorist?
The terrorist has sympathizers.
Mike Richter
>
> I'm unsure what tone you meant to convey. Are you differing with my
> characterization of 'legendary'? I was not putting her down. I agree that
> she was a fine artist.
Apologies for offering more heat than light. She is not legendary -
because she is real. She is not singing any longer AFAIK, but we know
what she did because we have some of her legacy on audio recordings.
Dobbs and Grist were underappreciated in their native land, but their
work is audible first-hand.
One may speak of legendary performances of, say, Malibran - because they
are part of the tales told by those who heard her. When speaking of a
singer who can be heard today, albeit on recordings, the term is
inappropriate, IMHO.
D. Eisen
>
>
> Try making a nice post, saying nice, positive things, without attacking
> anyone. I bet you can't do it.
>
> Ed
He taketh away Kenneth Lane and giveth us....Tommie.
Donna
A T
_ _
LuciaMim
>Actually, it's the other way around. "Whom would you choose?" is correct.
>It's the object of the verb, so "whom" is the right word, as it would be had
>it followed a preposition, such as "To whom it may concern." So the correct
>version of the above sentences are, "Those who use their talents," and
>who cannot perform," in both cases the word referring to the subject
>of the verb.
You're absolutely correct, as I tried to tell this individual yesterday, to no
effect.
Oh, by the way, trust my major in English from the U of Chicago.
Best wishes
Mimi