Flugelhorns for under $800.00, Best Flugelhorn for that price range?????
drmichae...@yahoo.com
flugelhorns in the under $800.00 price range, and to me there is not
even one worth buying. The blessing has moved up in prices so $$$ is
an issue but still it is perhaps the best value in this horn class,
the jupiter is a cheap yamaha copy that has improved but still comes
with tone , valve, and intonation issues. The getzen is out of that
price range.
To me, a step up to good used flugelhorn in the medium quality class
is the best way to go for someone with a $700-$800 price range.
Mikey
drmichae...@yahoo.com
"Sunday, August 21, 2005
Jupiter Flugel Horn
I have had my Jupiter flugel for a year now so I thought I would give
my opinion on living with it:
1. Mouthpiece choice is fairly critical for intonation and mid
register playability. Throw away the mouthpiece that comes with it as
it is useless.
2. Lacquer finish is very durable. Quite similar to Yamaha. Overll
finish is very good and has stood up to a lot of abuse. Also the case
is very strong and has a useful compartment for music and other things
in the lid. Overall its a well built instrument that is likley to last
a long time.
3. Good upper register. No problems up to a high F which is as high as
I ever want to go on flugel. Mid register is suspect on some
mouthpieces so you need to experiment.
4. Main water key does not appear to work. Its an amado and it rarely
lets any water out. I have heard of this problem with other Jupiter
instruments. It may be badly fitted or the surface tension may be too
high to let the water out. I need to get a saturn water key fitted as
this is a major bugbear and something that puts me off using it in
performance.
5. Could do with a first valve trigger for E. Its a common problem
with flugels but its liveable with and only causes problems with slow
passages ending on an E really.
6. Some problems with edge on the sound due to its narrow bore (In the
past I have used Blessings and Bachs which are larger bore) but this
is just the way smaller bore flugels sound so you can't blame the
instrument. It does make it less useful for classical Corno Da Caccia
concertos i think (I used to do the Telemann in D on flugel but on
this one its not quite the right sound).
Overall I would give it a 9 out of 10 for playability and value.If I
was playing flugel as a main instrument I might go back to a larger
bore instrument to guarantee a more mellow sound when I am not as well
warmed up or doing a quick switch from trumpet.
It would be interesting to try it alongside the Weril Regium which is
a similar price to see which was better.
I think the Jupiter is worth a shot especially if you can find a used
one as they sell really cheap sometimes but you need the one with the
trigger and rose brass bell.
posted by Gordon at 8/21/2005 10:14:00 AM "
drmichae...@yahoo.com
"Unregistered Review Date: 7/16/2005 Would you recommend the horn?
Yes | Price you paid?: $770.00 | Rating: 9
Pros: Beatiful dark tone, above average intonation, best in price
range
Cons: Have not found MP other than Blessing that fits this horn
properly. Wish double case were better designed
I've been playing trumpet for 30 years. Recently I decided to pick up
a flugelhorn. Not being a full time "pro" player I decided to limit
myself to horns in the under $1,000 range. I play tested the Blessing
154 RT along side a Jupiter a Getzen Capri, a Yamaha 2310 and an
Allora. I really felt the Blessing was head and shoulders above the
rest. It has a wonderful rich tone and (for a flugelhorn) excellent
intonation. I also found them to be very consistent. After deciding on
the Blessing I tried four separate horns and found no difference. The
valves move fast and the horn is a joy to play. It's also a beautiful
looking horn and I get wonderful compliments both on the sound and the
look of the horn every weekend.
There are better horns, but I have not been sorry at all that I didn't
spend twice as much to buy one of them. The increase in quality does
not justify the price difference. Unless you are supporting yourself
with your playing, I would say this is all you'll ever need from a
flugel.
Negatives...I wish the double case were better designed. The
compartment for the mouthpieces is open and they tend to fall out and
bang the horn if you don't wrap them in something. I wrap three MPs
and my tuner in a cloth and they stay put. The space left for a
trumpet is very tight. I spent two months lugging both cases around
before I broke down and put my Strad in there. So far no problem, but
it does tend to compress the trumpet valves in odd positions. Also
wish the case had a storage compartment like the Strad case does.
Also, I have never been thrilled with Blessing's mouth pieces. I
wanted to pick up a Bach Mega Tone for this horn, but it doesn't fit
properly. In fact the Blessing mouth piece is the only one I have
found that will fit this horn properly. I may break down at some point
and have a custom mouth piece made up.
All in all this is an EXCELLENT horn! I strongly recommend it!
A couple of side notes. There is an article called the flugelhorn
buying guide that shows up on the net pretty regularly. It really pans
Blessing calling them third world horns (I'm in Elkhart and it's my
understanding they build them right here) I don't know what this guy's
issue with Blessing is, but it's not a fair review at all. (For the
record I am not affiliated with Blessing at all.)
Also, I understand from some of the folks who work there that this is
the same horn as the Olds NF13RT. Blessing builds them under contract.
I also strongly suspect that this is the Zeus 800R flugelhorn. It
looks identical, right down to the case.
OK, I've talked long enough. I hope this all helps. Happy playing!"
Robert DeSavage
I'm pleased with my Jupe flugel (gold brass bell, lacquer finish).
Intonation problems? Even my Benge flugel has them. Maybe it's not the
horns that are the problem. Perhaps it's the player. You can have the
most 'perfect' horn, but if the player is out of sorts, than the horn
is going to play out of tune and crappy sounding unless the player
pulls his head out of his / her butt and seizes control. Bear in mind
that a flugel has many idiosyncrasies that trumpets don't have. That's
why the flugel has it's own wonderful character of sound, pitch, and
response that a player should exploit to the hilt. You can be the best
trumpet player in the world, but this doesn't mean that the player's
ability on flugel is going to be the same.
Jeff
wrote:
> Maybe it's not the
> horns that are the problem. Perhaps it's the player.
*ding ding ding ding ding*
Dave Stephens
almost the exact same design, except the Yamaha is heavier and a little
darker sounding to my ear.
Dave
<drmichae...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1176997876....@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Gordon Hudson
<drmichae...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1177000465.2...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Michael, thats from my blog and I did indeed switch to a bigger flugel
eventually.
The Jupiter is still a good buy though especially used.
drmichae...@yahoo.com
Sorry Gordon I see that i misspelled your name , Hutson instead of
Hudson, I made the same mistake on my website with Curtis' name, you
guys keep confusing me with the HuDson/HuTson thing.
But you are correct, the 460 bore flugelhorn is very different from
the 433 and 415-423 size bores. Kite, be sure that you spend some time
playing all of these different brands and sizes of flugelhorns , in
other words, be sure to try before you buy because the larger
flugelhorn plays and sounds different than the smaller french style.
If you go large, the 4 valve Getzen in silver is a good choice , and
once you get use to playing it, it plays as well as most pro
flugelhorns dospite its 2 piece bell plus it offers the 4th valve that
plays like a picc or euph, and the 4th valve can help you play low d
in tune amongst other things.
Another issue is shank sizes, and flugelhorns come in 3 different size
of shanks. Once you buy your flugelhorn , you can pick a mouthpiece
with the right shank size to match, a Curry flugelhorn with a v cup is
a good choice, but strangely, lately I have been playing on a parduba
6 flugelhorn mp and I like the way it sounds so lately my callet
custom x5 fl vf has sat in the case.
A good flugelhorn mp can get you a great sound, stay away from pee
shooter flugelhorn mouthpieces which give the flugelhorn too much of a
trumpet sound.
Mikey
drmichae...@yahoo.com
" The Jupiters are good. "
I hear this from many people who play the Jupiter flugelhorn, which
has a much better reputation than the Jupiter trumpet.
If you are looking for a new flugelhorn in this price range, the
Jupiter Flugelhorn is one choice that you should seriously look into.
Mikey
drmichae...@yahoo.com
Kite here is a Selmer Paris flugelhorn for only $750.00 from a company
with a great reputation
http://www.wichitaband.com/used2.html#cornets
"Paris Model
Vintage Fluegelhorn by H. Selmer, serial number 240. The bell is
engraved "Henri Selmer / Paris / depose / Grands Prix / Geneve 1927
Barcelone 1929 / Liege 1930 / H. Selmer (in script) 4 Place Dancourt /
Paris / made in France" and also with the name of the dealer "Rauber
Freres / Montreux". Original bright NICKEL finish is worn less than
5%, the pistons are original and still tight. The French case is still
in good condition. Bell diameter is 6 1/8 inches and the bore size
(measured at the second slide) is .414 inches. This is a nice one,
used a little, but all original and undamaged. $750. "
Selmer Paris are very good horns, Phil Driscoll's Picc is a Selmer
Marice Andre was involved in the development of these horns.
This would be a much smarter investment for you than a new lower end
flugelhorn
DR. Michael Schmidt
Not perfect, just perfectly forgiven
kitekrazy
@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
> A good flugelhorn mp can get you a great sound, stay away from pee
> shooter flugelhorn mouthpieces which give the flugelhorn too much of a
> trumpet sound.
>
> Mikey
>
>
Not sure what you mean by pee shooter. I would think you would want a mp
with a similar rim diameter as your trumpet mp but with a deep cup.
kitekrazy
news:iuff23dqipgk4t2sk...@4ax.com:
> On 19 Apr 2007 08:51:16 -0700, drmichae...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I have been looking and looking at all kinds of websites for new
>>flugelhorns in the under $800.00 price range, and to me there is not
>>even one worth buying. The blessing has moved up in prices so $$$ is
>>an issue but still it is perhaps the best value in this horn class,
>>the jupiter is a cheap yamaha copy that has improved but still comes
>>with tone , valve, and intonation issues. The getzen is out of that
>>price range.
>>
>>To me, a step up to good used flugelhorn in the medium quality class
>>is the best way to go for someone with a $700-$800 price range.
>>
>>Mikey
>>
>>www.trumpetofthelord.com
>
> I'm pleased with my Jupe flugel (gold brass bell, lacquer finish).
> Intonation problems?<
What model #
kitekrazy
@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
> Kite here is a Selmer Paris flugelhorn for only $750.00 from a company
> with a great reputation(scroll down, sorry but they don't have any
> pics of the horn, perhaps they can email you some)
>
> http://www.wichitaband.com/used2.html#cornets
>
> This would be a much smarter investment for you than a new lower end
> flugelhorn
>
> Mikey
>
> Selmer Paris are very good horns, Phil Driscoll's Picc is a Selmer
> Paris Model
>
>
Yeah I forgot ot check them.
Here's the description.
Vintage Fluegelhorn by H. Selmer, serial number 240. The bell is engraved
“Henri Selmer / Paris / depose / Grands Prix / Geneve 1927 Barcelone 1929 /
Liege 1930 / H. Selmer (in script) 4 Place Dancourt / Paris / made in
France” and also with the name of the dealer “Rauber Freres / Montreux”.
Original bright NICKEL finish is worn less than 5%, the pistons are
original and still tight. The French case is still in good condition. Bell
diameter is 6 1/8 inches and the bore size (measured at the second slide)
is .414 inches. This is a nice one, used a little, but all original and
undamaged. $750.
Is that a 80 year old horn?
kitekrazy
Blessing B154RT Flugelhorn
http://www.1800usaband.com/htmls/itementryview.asp?itementryid=168
New $800, Demo $749
I bought my King 2055T there for under $600 New.
trumpeto...@rock.com
"I didn't mention anything regarding horizontal or verticle. My
question is
why do some horns only allow to adjust the intonation with the 3rd
valve
trigger? "'
Re:
It would be very strange to see a flugelhorn w/ vertical slides with
two triggers, but horns like the Schilkie that I showed you earlier
had horizontal slides with a o and a u hook, u on the first.
Kite:
"Not sure what you mean by pee shooter. I would think you would want a
mp
with a similar rim diameter as your trumpet mp but with a deep cup. "
Re:
I think that deep bowl cups are all wrong for a flugelhorn, just like
shallow pee shooters like the 13a4a are, a deep V cup is what a
flugelhorn sounds best with.
Kite, what do you think about that Selmer Paris Flugelhorn ?
That would be an awesome horn for you, a steal at $750.00
Mikey
Robert DeSavage
wrote:
846RL
WWBW sells it for $939. Lacquer finish with 3rd valve trigger. The
price went up since I bought it last year for around $850
$759 will buy the lacquer yellow brass model, no trigger
Mistakenly, I said the 846RL has a gold brass bell. Jupe's term is
rose brass bell.
Jeff
Caveat emptor as far as taking advice on various models unless you've
heard the endorser in question play the flugel.
drmichae...@yahoo.com
> Is that a 80 year old horn?
Re:
I think it more like a 40 year old horn, not 100 % sure???
http://rouses.net/trumpet/selmer.htm
drmichae...@yahoo.com
sometimes
Selmer
are good buys and often available. The rose brass bell flugel made by
the F. E. Olds and Sons, Co in the 1960s and 1970s, is a copy of the
Couesnon, but built like a tank. The are often available used at
attractive prices. Bullet holes optional.
FINALLY.... although a good used pro horn is usually a much better
investment and more satisfying to play than an inexpensive new flugel,
the Jupiter 846 series are good Taiwanese copies of the very popular
Yamaha YFH 631. They are available in lacquer from Giardinelli,
Brasswind and Music 123 for $709. Many feel these to be worth the
money in playability and manufacturing quality. The quality of Jupiter
horns has been remarked by many to have been greatly improved over the
last few years reflecting the recent investment of millions in dollars
by Jupiter to upgrade and improve their manufacturing facility and
techniques. Correspondent Michael Camilleri, a recent purchaser of the
846R model, notes that the alphabetical pre-fix to the serial numbers
of the Jupiter flugels change with each design change. The more recent
"D" and "E" horns are clearly after the quality step-up. Beware of
horns made before then. The addition of the rose brass bell and the
third valve trigger in the 846R raise the price about $150, but he
feels it was worth it."- Jim Donaldson
drmichae...@yahoo.com
Re:
Jeff and I disagree on the Blessing, I think that at $788.00
http://www.jimlaabs.com/scripts/prodlist.asp?idCategory=85
That Blessing would be a much better horn for you than a Jupiter, but
that is just my opinion. I played a Blessing flugelhorn in college ,
played all over the country with it everywhere, and had good luck with
it. I was constantly being complimented on the tone of the Blessing
flugelhorn. I also played a Blessing pro trumpet , a L 1 , for about 6
years. I had a tight third valve slide and some tight valves on the
trumpet , I sent the horn back to the factory and they fixed it for
free They treated me very nice. My MF Holton trumpet has a factory
defect on it, caused by the factory getting dust or sand on the horn
when it was laquered , and because it was out of waranty by a few
months (I was very busy playing the horn at the time, but i put off
sending it to them)they refused to fix it unless I PAID for their
mistake. They even ADMITTED that it had a factory defect that they
caused (There can be no doubt, I took it to a very good pro repairman
and he agreed, they got sand on the horn in production). Holton wanted
ME to pay for the defect that they caused. Ugh...
Jeff and I just do not agree on blessing, blessing is the best value
out there for high school and college students on a tight budget, it
is just hard to find a better NEW horn for the money. Blessings are
American Made by a good Christian family that treats there customers
well. You just can not find a better gentleman than Randy Johnson.
Mikey
kitekrazy
@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
I agree with you on the Blessings.
drmichae...@yahoo.com
auction:
kitekrazy
@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
THere can be a drawback to a horn that old. In a few years it may need to
go to a resotration shop, I'm not sure I want to gamble on that despite
what conditio they say it is.
Too bad they don't have a picture.
drmichae...@yahoo.com
> drmichaeleschm...@yahoo.com wrote in news:1177037143.008413.107390
The Selmer Paris is more like a top of the line pro flugelhorn. Were
it me, I would call witicita band company, and ask them to go find
that horn and to play it and describe its condition, those are some
folks with a good reputation out there, if they say that that horn is
in great condition, I would go for the Selmer Paris flugelhorn, for
the price of a Bach entry level student flugelhorn you can have a
wonderful vintage pro horn that should play and sound wonderful. One
risk that you do take with any vintage horn is finding parts for it, I
have had a conn cornet down for half a year trying to get a valve
guide for it. On the other hand, that Selmer Paris flugelhorn will
sound wonderful, sweet , 100 X better than any entry level horn.
Mikey
kitekrazy
news:1177039804.1...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
I don't do ebay.
I could've bought a used flugelhorn at Sam Ash a few years ago for $250.
It was an Olds and I have no clue what model it was. There was a reason I
didn't buy it immediately because it sounded more like a trumpet than a
flugel. A few weeks later I thought about buying it anyway but it was gone.
Back in 81 our local music store had a new DEG flugel horn for $150. I
wasn't familiar with the brand then but I was also 17. I still look back
and thing I should've bought.
drmichae...@yahoo.com
let the vintage/circa scare you, my Conn circus bore cornet is almost
100 years old and it plays and sounds fantastic.
One more thing is that the horn comes with a Nickel Finish. Try and
see if they can email you some pics of the horn, or if they would be
willing to send it to you to try out.
Mikey
kitekrazy
> Almost new used Blessing on ebay, no bids so far, a day + time left on
> auction:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Blessing-B154RT-Artist-Flugelhorn-like-NEW_W0QQitem
> Z250104820644QQihZ015QQcategoryZ64374QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
Here was the info I got on the Bach.
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50232
&sid=d6d5ac10c6c1a846fa92b5b0f0f0627c
We just got one of those at our store.
Now, I am not a trumpet player(I play trombone) but I thought it sounded as
good as the 183 Bach that is made in America!
My trumpet teacher and business partner who are both trumpet players said
it played in tune and were quite surprised in the quality and playability.
Great starter Flugel.
drmichae...@yahoo.com
> Too bad they don't have a picture.
Most likely that is why the horn has not sold yet, either that or the
nickel finish, see if they can e mail you pics.
One more new flugelhorn in your price range option that I do not know
a lot about is the Allora:
kitekrazy
news:1177040864....@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
>
> The Selmer Paris is more like a top of the line pro flugelhorn. Were
> it me, I would call witicita band company, and ask them to go find
> that horn and to play it and describe its condition, those are some
> folks with a good reputation out there, if they say that that horn is
> in great condition, I would go for the Selmer Paris flugelhorn, for
> the price of a Bach entry level student flugelhorn you can have a
> wonderful vintage pro horn that should play and sound wonderful. One
> risk that you do take with any vintage horn is finding parts for it, I
> have had a conn cornet down for half a year trying to get a valve
> guide for it. On the other hand, that Selmer Paris flugelhorn will
> sound wonderful, sweet , 100 X better than any entry level horn.
>
> Mikey
>
I haven't ruled that one out.
kitekrazy
@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
I only seen one review on that one. Never heard of it either.
Music123.com is bad place to order from.
Robert DeSavage
Jupiter's spit valves are Amado style, but with an improvement over
the 'standard' Amado assembly where rather than a C ring holding in
the retainer cap, spring, and piston, their cap is threaded and
'turns' into the barrel with a twist of a screwdriver. Standard Amado
can be corky since every now and then, the C ring will pop out by
itself and send both retainer cap and spring into orbit. While the
assembly is easy enough to put back together, you need a special
pliers in order to grip into the two holes on the C ring to fit it
into the barrel. For sure, the one's on the Jupe ain't going to pop.
Heard much about the Saturn valves. Are these available in the US of
A?
drmichae...@yahoo.com
salt...@gmail.com
I've had blessing Flugelhorns and I will tell you straight, don't go near one, they are by far the most out of tune aporling playing bits of scrap metal I have ever had, 2 older couesnon flugelhorns cheap in tune but worn, the Brazilian earlham ones are nice but the finish can be poor, don't go to cheap, you should be able to find a great one for that price